I think smg infiltrators are the type of infiltrators I like to play against the most. Because smgs are close range weapons this forces infiltrators to move close to you making it more likely that you'll spot their cloaks when they move.
I think it's also the most fun way to play an infiltrator too. Close range, fast paced, running around the front line trying to pick off support classes, always trying to be as unpredictable as you can to shake off the more perceptive players. Plus there's always the good ol' "anti-infantry mine suicide run" tactic if you're getting bored :p
Oshur is a great example of when infil is pretty much the only way to go for the most part, open spaces with poor cover was a horrible choice for continent design, thinking that construction would fill that void.
I don't have an issue with almost any of these changes. Most of my concern about nerfing infil comes down to the fact it's primarily something casual players use. A concerning amount of people seemingly want invisibility removed or sigificantly nerfed, which personally I feel is going to hurt the 'core' of the playerbase. Most casuals are simply playing for mindless fun, are not thinking critically and have a pretty awful acc/hsr.
What's your take on the deep operative implant? With it basically providing true invisibility I also heard that it's somewhat bugged in that it "shortens" the decloak animation, giving you even less time to react when ambushed.
I dont think it matters much, the visibility thing will only become relevant in relatively close ranges and trying to meet that 12 second requirement is kinda tedious especially in CQC. Haven't tried it myself but I'd imagine its kinda unfun to play because of that, which is the reason you dont see it played much. If an infil uncloaks to shoot you you're more or less fucked already so i dont think the shortened animation matters much.
@@DokPYT It's been a long time, but is that the one that prevents you from using the primary weapon in exchange for infinite cloak? or is it a new one? I loved the former because I could chill with the crossbow in a low-pop complex and just hack generators and stuff which would force guys to go on a wild goose chase. obviously not meta, though, and an opinion from 5-8 years ago, at least.
Some very reasonable takes offered here, great video! Regarding the Motion Spotter/Recon Darts debacle: How would we feel about these slight reworks, to curb their power? The aim is to reduce the frustration of constantly being lit up on the minimap for all opponents, bc a single Infil put down their gadget. • Recon Darts are less of an issue atm and thereby don't need too many changes. It could continue spotting within 50m for all teammates, but I'd reduce the ammount of darts carried to 2 or max 3 (from 5) for more reliance on friendly Engies. A "team gadget" needing some amount of interaction with your team for dart upkeep, in exchange for the powerful ability to scan for the entire hex, sounds reasonable to me. • The motion spotter on the other hand, and let's not kid ourselves, is the more oppressive option currently. It should NOT have a 4min and 50m scan for the entire team, for the effort it takes to just place one down and forget. This gadget is the biggest reason, why running Sensorshield is mandatory on everything. Imo, it should be changed into a powerful but "selfish" pick, which scans only for the one placing it. Its range could also receive a minor nerf (mby to 30-40m from 50m) and the ammount should be reduced to 2-3 too, to encourage thoughtful placement. This change would mean, that an enemy spotter on the minimap gives you only one opponent to worry about and not the entire zergling hive. These changes alone would make facing Infils less frustrating imo (Also Q-spots give an unreasonable amount of intel and Infil is the only way of not having to deal with that. 10 seconds of live information for ALL enemies is ridiculous.)
Agree with the bolts. they are both very punishing and rewarding, which can be frustrated to play against, but no frustration is greater than getting bolted by someone who knew where you were coming from, and you had no way to predict. at that point your survival is entirely dependent on the infiltrator's skills and aim, and there's nothing you can do about it except be an infil yourself. AMR infantry engineers aren't nearly as frustrating for all those reasons. it's still annoying to get bolted by a very good bolter over and over, but at that point it's no different from getting farmed by any other good player. also I wish motion darts were a little more easily destroyable. right now they have such a tiny hitbox, it's basically a non option unless you have an EMP, since you're gonna be wasting more time emptying half a mag and revealing yourself while at ADS speeds to even hit the thing. the mechanic is there, but it's realistically not usable, for what feels like no good reason. another way to help with the cloak, would be to add a re-cloak delay, just like the flash's cloak; if you uncloak, you have to wait two or three seconds before cloaking again. I'm not sure if this is would be that useful, since usually, when you cloak back, you just revealed yourself, and enemies around are likely on the lookout as you have to change position. Maybe giving a slightly higher delay before being able to fire after uncloaking, even just half a second, could make a more substantial change, taking clientside into account. I don't think any of these tweaks would fix infiltrator balance entirely, I'm mostly throwing these here for discussion
I didn't say anything about the level design problem, because it's not something I've put many thoughts into, and so far I very much agree. I resent playing infiltrator a lot (the NSO scout rifle was the directive weapon I unlocked, and pretty much all of it was done on medic), and I found myself left with no other options than to pick it anyway, on one lane Oshur when everyone was stuck on Mirror Bay. this has been helped with a little, now that Oshur opens up with lower pop (at least it seems so...), but Excavion and the surrounding construction bases haven't fixed how powerful and necessary infils are in this general area. Even underwater, where they shouldn't be a problem, it's common to get picked by ranged infils from above the surface.
Infil with their natural abilities, scoping while cloaked, motion darts, their one shot Snipers and broken Scout Rifles, the sidearms that allow them to supplement their close quarters weaknesses, and the smg’s they have access to makes them really annoying. Specific Nerfs for the Infil is welcome in my eyes. Making the different classes closer to each other’s general strengths is always good to see.
Great video, with some well thought out points! Personally, I'd like to see more of a focus on squad support than kill potential. Removing the cloak and focusing only on the recon aspect of Infil would remove a lot of the frustrations associated with being shot by invisible planetmen, whilst also incentivising teamplay as you aren't the strongest class in a straight up fight on your own.
Pretty good points all around, but sadly my issue with planetside 2 here lately has been getting domed 7 times (hearing the head shot sound) from 200+ meters out by full auto weaponry in the span of 0.27 seconds. Bonus points if the guy was behind 2 buildings, a sunderer, and a large rock at the time of shooting me. I mostly see this from the vanu and the robots... The hacking problem has just gotten so out of hand its hard to enjoy the game at all. I've seen people driving 4-wheelers in the air, up 90 degree buildings, i've seen people take entire clips to still be at full health or very near it, I've seen people with unlimited jet pack fuel... its just....bad...
Open area is a hellscape for infantry. They get farmed by tanks, air and infiltrators in the open. In the case of the infiltrator it's because the weapons hit very hard, some oneshotting while also being able to down target after target very quickly, on par or faster than automatic weapons can at long ranges with no difficulty of dealing with recoil. Even without cloak these snipers and scout rifles will be problematic in having fair open field infantry fights. The cloak when used right ensures there is no risk for taking shots at the enemy at long range, they simply cannot fight back anywhere near to being on equal footing. The one sided nature of long range infils, without even a chance to react to them despite knowing they're in the area is what ruins the fun for most people.
Just go back to planetside 1 style stuff and have stalker be the only kind of infil, then give em some sort of buff to pistols and infinite cloaking but only with a held device out.
The level desing is ok, as top global vanu mana turret engie, you can abuse long sight lines too, played correctly you are superior to infils, they can't OHK you, you can tank several of them endlessly ducking behind shield, they are stuck on you doing nothing and their cloak is useless against infinite accurate shots (they are easier to follow while cloaked from a distance), they change their class to LA to flank me... It's much more difficult to play than infil though, you have to work to get your turret at the right place, it can be frustrating. I would remove the damage drop off for LMG, AR, etc... Add random horizontal recoil to semi autos. Unequip weapon on cloak. Change recon dart to single radar pulses emanating from the player, infil shouldn't be able to scout enemy movements from afar without taking any risks. Everybody could see the pulse on minimap coming from the enemy infil so everytime he uses it, he has to move too.
I will be straight up and say that the Infil class is fine.... I am a firm believer of the mindset "Don't just balance your game around good players." I am HORRIBLE at shooters, not only that but i also work so much that i barely have time to play and i still love to play Planetside.... I main Infiltrator, because it is simply the one class i can play "well" on, whereas i get demolished on other classes. I can see how infils can be frustrating for good players if they play against other good players, but this class is the only thing that keeps me playing the game... I think it's fine where it is, as it allows players who are just not good at these types of games to still enjoy them.
"They're a sympton. . .of a shift to a more defensive playstyle" Yeah if you can't defend then the whole premise of the game has no purpose and we go back to the dark early days of three zergs just circling Indar avoiding each other like the plague. Seperate sniping from infils, make infils only able to use secondary weapons, a good start to work from. Also get rid of their ESP darts.
I'd like to add that Desync gives the infiltrator's cloak even more of an advantage. Almost like peakers advantage but you have all the information and you're already aiming at their head. Just makes it even harder to counter a good infil player.
Stalker would still be broken tbh. Gave Deep Op Stalker a first try today, to get my last ~300 kills for the Networked Emmissary and ended up going 6 k/d and 2.5 kpm. A decently talented Heavy could pull these numbers too, sure, but this one took zero effort. I don't think I'd perform much worse on a 3min clock. Idk what ppl, who say Stalker is weak are smoking.
Incredible video DokP, i really loved the takes and the effort put in the editing and visuals to illustrate what you were saying making this a very good watch. I don't know if it was intentional for you to not mention the recon dart's spam with ammo box but i feel like its a topic often disregarded despite the game's scale when it comes to overpop in bases.
Recon dart spam is fine to me because it requires an engi to provide ammo and the infil to be more or less stationary next to that ammo. The infil will also be busy shooting the darts over and over so he can't actually shoot people himself. All that to barely get more relevant range than a motion spotter and have no live movement tracking is not worth it to me and definitely not OP.
@@DokPYT It's probably the only point of the video I disagree with. Darts do have the shorter duration and the ammo pack requierement, but that's a chore that will take "only" 15% to 20% of the infil's playtime (which is not super enjoyable for him indeed) but will cover way more area then the MS. Unlike what you say at 13:18 both have the same 50m radius, but you can have 4 darts placed at once, and shot far away in potentially unreachable places. On smaller fight the MS 20m realtime spotting is op, but rarely usefull on bigger fights and bases, while 1 dart infil can recon the entire base as long as he grabs ammo every 60s. So it should be nerfed a bit in a way too imo ^^'
I played this game for years, have a complete year spent on this game and I never complained about infiltrator at all. They never bothered me neither. Infiltrator are good on open ground, adapt your play style to that.
This is game is full of whiners. To whine properly in the past you to do it on the PS2 reddit forums. That was only forum the old Dev's read. The worst thing about planetside 2 is players that can't figure out ways to overcome problems. Planetside 2 is a open world MMOFPS and if you can't figure out how to solve problems than quit. This game has bent over backwards to cater to new players with no real success. The only real infil I consider overpowered is the close range bolters like (Nuc)elusive1. Hard to counter but not impossible.
With all the overblown complaints about this class, this video is level-headed with very intelligent suggestions for changes to infiltrator abilities, gear, and weapons. I would only add making nanoweave armor also protect your head, because currently it's useless. I actually don't think that level design is a part of the problem other than maybe trying to close up small gaps that can be shot through. Despite not agreeing with the level design comments, I'll say again that the suggested modest balance changes to the class are really excellent. I don't often play infill (usually light assault or engineer) but if I do it's usually with stalker cloak, and I think nerfing that is appropriate. I genuinely really do enjoy the presence of infiltrators on the battlefield. They add to the frenetic chaos that makes this game feel realistic. You should be punished for standing still on a battlefield, it adds exciting tension to the game. As for the idea that cloaking is a strong ability, I just don't understand this point of view. Aside from the minor class changes suggested (which I think should be implemented), the class is really well balanced. The ability is already time limited (yes it should be reduced a little more) and at close range they are easy to spot. With the exception of NSO, I think this game perfectly nails the balance of how easy or difficult they are to see based on level of movement or distance, it's very well tuned. My two setups are a desktop on medium-high graphics at 100 fps 144Hz, and a laptop on low graphics at 30 fps 60Hz. I simply don't have complaints about seeing them. Maybe some people genuinely struggle to see motion? To me it felt more like an acquired skill, but not too difficult after a few months of playing.
I don't think base design issue of open fields is as easy to fix as fixing infils themselfs unless you fill whole map with cover with cover and buildings. You'll end up out in the open at some point on pretty much any base. There's always an angle to be sniped from. While base design is a general issue even on better bases infils are still an issue with how broken their kit is.
delete motion spotters, only recon darts should be used, maybe even reduce the speed at which recon darts recharge on ammo packs and reduce darts max capacity, for cloak id go for 30% reduced uptime and slower recharge and stalker should be deleted. for guns id make every DMR or long rifle take one more bullet at long ranges , its annoying as shit when some idiot hits u twice and cant track u, but u lose more than 50% hp just cuz of the damage model. playing in underpop vs infil spam will always be cancer if they can get 100% uptime on darts even if u run sensor shield suppressor u still need to find the invisible man who decides when he shoots u. spotting in general should also be nerfed, how long a spot lasts is too long should just be a red blip not full movement on radar but u get the dorito still on vision
Nice video, however there's a few critical things to look at that aren't mentioned: 1. No-no zones and other open terrain, exist because there isn't JUST infantry gameplay. it's not there to support Infils, it's there to support Vehicles moving in, through and from bases. 2. Every 'infil dominated base', refers to bases where there is open spaces. But frankly, open spaces isn't gonna win the objective as that's inside the base itself where other classes VASTLY dominate. That's not a bad thing, that's the whole point of certain classes. 3. Infils are there to kill off reinforcements and entrenched enemies. They're supposed to position themselves between the point/building and the spawn, and pick you off somewhere along that route where there is significantly less cover, and less chance of someone to be revived. There being less cover, is intentional. Let's address the two abilities then: 1. The cloak being the 'strongest' ability in the game is entirely subjective, it certainly can be used to great extend by people who know wtf they're doing. If you get caught with you cloak, you're already at a disadvantage from the rest, not even account for certain other abilities of the enemy. As you cannot shoot with your cloak active, they however can very much shoot you. 2. Motion Detectors: They are great, and provide a benefits to **to all allies** not just the infil. The engi can fire recon darts too, and both recon darts and motion spotters can be destroyed. 3. To top it all off, and this is by far the most important aspect of any of these points on abilities you've mentioned: Both of these can be *directly* countered by either equipping a Darklight if they're close-by, shooting the recon darts/motionspotters, or equipping the Sensor Shield Implant. Just let that sink in a little. There's no way to direct counter a Heavies shield, a Medic's healing, or LA's Jetpack. There's no way for you to reduce a HA's shield directly other than damage them, it can be flicked on instantly and they can still shoot back, so you just have to burn through their HP. A Medic, you better kill them quick because if they disengage they'll heal everything back up + they can undo any picks you've made within a 30sec time limit. Not dogging on the classes, as they serve their purpose. But that's the entire point all of those classes serve their purpose. So how do you kill enemies than can have 1.5x your HP or an enemy with infinite sustain? You surprise them with flanks, and kill them before they can do so. And thus Infils and LA's exist. How about the weapons: 1. Semi-auto's have always been the black sheep of snipers, because they were absolutely useless before. As by the time you land your other shots the enemy would've moved off, leaving them useless. They've gotten buffed and became popular because HA's can survive a direct hit to the head with Resist Shield, and Engi's can survive a direct shot to the head with Jocket on a Turret. So the Semi-auto's are a nice high DPS, high precision alternative to deal with these things. Furthermore, that same update made scout rifles available to EVERY class, so are other classes supposed to be better Marksman than the class literally made to do so? Also mentioning the hip-fire on the semi auto's, I can tell you from experience: It's absolute dogsh*t accuracy still. (And should stay that way) 2. I do agree with the the Obelisk, but more so on the heat mechanic in general being busted. A lot of FPS's rely on you having downtime to reload your weapon, and then being able to push when that enemy is reloading to score a kill. However this isn't just the obelisk but also the Betel and other related heat-based guns. There's a reason why it's a favorite. 3. Another solid point, is unstable ammo. Having play with and without unstable ammo on my VS character, it's incredibly unforgiving and generally combined with some already strong weapons like the Canis, it's hipefire gallore. But if we're talking weapons, why not have a chat about other weapons like: The Lasher spam, point blank Deci shots, NC15 Phoenix, Jackhammer, The Baron, Betel, Thumper, Chaingun, Godsaw etc. Reason why I mention these, is they're the exact reason why some won't go near choke points or try and push point holds, and rather than dealing with them up close, deal with them from afar, hence people picking infil more as there's nothing you can do when there's so much spam aimed at you at pointholds or spawnrooms. So your only option is: Infil. Then there's one last burning question, the meta composition for squad point hold. Why do you think most squads consist out of mostly Heavies and Medics with 1/2 Engi's/Max's and 1 infil?
![FNAF vs TF2 - Episode 2 [SFM]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/z5b3V2-VLb0/mqdefault.jpg)
I think smg infiltrators are the type of infiltrators I like to play against the most. Because smgs are close range weapons this forces infiltrators to move close to you making it more likely that you'll spot their cloaks when they move.
I think it's also the most fun way to play an infiltrator too. Close range, fast paced, running around the front line trying to pick off support classes, always trying to be as unpredictable as you can to shake off the more perceptive players. Plus there's always the good ol' "anti-infantry mine suicide run" tactic if you're getting bored :p
Oshur is a great example of when infil is pretty much the only way to go for the most part, open spaces with poor cover was a horrible choice for continent design, thinking that construction would fill that void.
good takes on almost every part of the problem
Also, Vertical milk storage is the best type of milk storage
I don't have an issue with almost any of these changes.
Most of my concern about nerfing infil comes down to the fact it's primarily something casual players use.
A concerning amount of people seemingly want invisibility removed or sigificantly nerfed, which personally I feel is going to hurt the 'core' of the playerbase.
Most casuals are simply playing for mindless fun, are not thinking critically and have a pretty awful acc/hsr.
The changes to the motion spotter sounds very nice indeed.
What's your take on the deep operative implant? With it basically providing true invisibility I also heard that it's somewhat bugged in that it "shortens" the decloak animation, giving you even less time to react when ambushed.
I dont think it matters much, the visibility thing will only become relevant in relatively close ranges and trying to meet that 12 second requirement is kinda tedious especially in CQC. Haven't tried it myself but I'd imagine its kinda unfun to play because of that, which is the reason you dont see it played much.
If an infil uncloaks to shoot you you're more or less fucked already so i dont think the shortened animation matters much.
@@DokPYT It's been a long time, but is that the one that prevents you from using the primary weapon in exchange for infinite cloak? or is it a new one?
I loved the former because I could chill with the crossbow in a low-pop complex and just hack generators and stuff which would force guys to go on a wild goose chase.
obviously not meta, though, and an opinion from 5-8 years ago, at least.
Some very reasonable takes offered here, great video!
Regarding the Motion Spotter/Recon Darts debacle:
How would we feel about these slight reworks, to curb their power? The aim is to reduce the frustration of constantly being lit up on the minimap for all opponents, bc a single Infil put down their gadget.
• Recon Darts are less of an issue atm and thereby don't need too many changes. It could continue spotting within 50m for all teammates, but I'd reduce the ammount of darts carried to 2 or max 3 (from 5) for more reliance on friendly Engies.
A "team gadget" needing some amount of interaction with your team for dart upkeep, in exchange for the powerful ability to scan for the entire hex, sounds reasonable to me.
• The motion spotter on the other hand, and let's not kid ourselves, is the more oppressive option currently. It should NOT have a 4min and 50m scan for the entire team, for the effort it takes to just place one down and forget.
This gadget is the biggest reason, why running Sensorshield is mandatory on everything.
Imo, it should be changed into a powerful but "selfish" pick, which scans only for the one placing it. Its range could also receive a minor nerf (mby to 30-40m from 50m) and the ammount should be reduced to 2-3 too, to encourage thoughtful placement.
This change would mean, that an enemy spotter on the minimap gives you only one opponent to worry about and not the entire zergling hive.
These changes alone would make facing Infils less frustrating imo
(Also Q-spots give an unreasonable amount of intel and Infil is the only way of not having to deal with that. 10 seconds of live information for ALL enemies is ridiculous.)
Agree with the bolts. they are both very punishing and rewarding, which can be frustrated to play against, but no frustration is greater than getting bolted by someone who knew where you were coming from, and you had no way to predict. at that point your survival is entirely dependent on the infiltrator's skills and aim, and there's nothing you can do about it except be an infil yourself. AMR infantry engineers aren't nearly as frustrating for all those reasons. it's still annoying to get bolted by a very good bolter over and over, but at that point it's no different from getting farmed by any other good player.
also I wish motion darts were a little more easily destroyable. right now they have such a tiny hitbox, it's basically a non option unless you have an EMP, since you're gonna be wasting more time emptying half a mag and revealing yourself while at ADS speeds to even hit the thing. the mechanic is there, but it's realistically not usable, for what feels like no good reason.
another way to help with the cloak, would be to add a re-cloak delay, just like the flash's cloak; if you uncloak, you have to wait two or three seconds before cloaking again. I'm not sure if this is would be that useful, since usually, when you cloak back, you just revealed yourself, and enemies around are likely on the lookout as you have to change position. Maybe giving a slightly higher delay before being able to fire after uncloaking, even just half a second, could make a more substantial change, taking clientside into account. I don't think any of these tweaks would fix infiltrator balance entirely, I'm mostly throwing these here for discussion
I didn't say anything about the level design problem, because it's not something I've put many thoughts into, and so far I very much agree. I resent playing infiltrator a lot (the NSO scout rifle was the directive weapon I unlocked, and pretty much all of it was done on medic), and I found myself left with no other options than to pick it anyway, on one lane Oshur when everyone was stuck on Mirror Bay. this has been helped with a little, now that Oshur opens up with lower pop (at least it seems so...), but Excavion and the surrounding construction bases haven't fixed how powerful and necessary infils are in this general area. Even underwater, where they shouldn't be a problem, it's common to get picked by ranged infils from above the surface.
Infil with their natural abilities, scoping while cloaked, motion darts, their one shot Snipers and broken Scout Rifles, the sidearms that allow them to supplement their close quarters weaknesses, and the smg’s they have access to makes them really annoying.
Specific Nerfs for the Infil is welcome in my eyes. Making the different classes closer to each other’s general strengths is always good to see.
Great video, with some well thought out points! Personally, I'd like to see more of a focus on squad support than kill potential. Removing the cloak and focusing only on the recon aspect of Infil would remove a lot of the frustrations associated with being shot by invisible planetmen, whilst also incentivising teamplay as you aren't the strongest class in a straight up fight on your own.
Pretty good points all around, but sadly my issue with planetside 2 here lately has been getting domed 7 times (hearing the head shot sound) from 200+ meters out by full auto weaponry in the span of 0.27 seconds. Bonus points if the guy was behind 2 buildings, a sunderer, and a large rock at the time of shooting me. I mostly see this from the vanu and the robots... The hacking problem has just gotten so out of hand its hard to enjoy the game at all. I've seen people driving 4-wheelers in the air, up 90 degree buildings, i've seen people take entire clips to still be at full health or very near it, I've seen people with unlimited jet pack fuel... its just....bad...
Open area is a hellscape for infantry. They get farmed by tanks, air and infiltrators in the open. In the case of the infiltrator it's because the weapons hit very hard, some oneshotting while also being able to down target after target very quickly, on par or faster than automatic weapons can at long ranges with no difficulty of dealing with recoil. Even without cloak these snipers and scout rifles will be problematic in having fair open field infantry fights. The cloak when used right ensures there is no risk for taking shots at the enemy at long range, they simply cannot fight back anywhere near to being on equal footing. The one sided nature of long range infils, without even a chance to react to them despite knowing they're in the area is what ruins the fun for most people.
Could we get a 4x scope on all the guns that don't currently have access to it? That would make my day.
DAMN 🤯Dok give us a school presentation on Infils in high class quality 🔥👏
well done and lots of info ive never tought about 👍 appreciate the work 🙏💚
Just go back to planetside 1 style stuff and have stalker be the only kind of infil, then give em some sort of buff to pistols and infinite cloaking but only with a held device out.
12:25 3 minute duration, 20s recharge on stalker sounds absolutely broken
The level desing is ok, as top global vanu mana turret engie, you can abuse long sight lines too, played correctly you are superior to infils, they can't OHK you, you can tank several of them endlessly ducking behind shield, they are stuck on you doing nothing and their cloak is useless against infinite accurate shots (they are easier to follow while cloaked from a distance), they change their class to LA to flank me... It's much more difficult to play than infil though, you have to work to get your turret at the right place, it can be frustrating.
I would remove the damage drop off for LMG, AR, etc...
Add random horizontal recoil to semi autos.
Unequip weapon on cloak.
Change recon dart to single radar pulses emanating from the player, infil shouldn't be able to scout enemy movements from afar without taking any risks. Everybody could see the pulse on minimap coming from the enemy infil so everytime he uses it, he has to move too.
I will be straight up and say that the Infil class is fine.... I am a firm believer of the mindset "Don't just balance your game around good players." I am HORRIBLE at shooters, not only that but i also work so much that i barely have time to play and i still love to play Planetside.... I main Infiltrator, because it is simply the one class i can play "well" on, whereas i get demolished on other classes. I can see how infils can be frustrating for good players if they play against other good players, but this class is the only thing that keeps me playing the game... I think it's fine where it is, as it allows players who are just not good at these types of games to still enjoy them.
"They're a sympton. . .of a shift to a more defensive playstyle"
Yeah if you can't defend then the whole premise of the game has no purpose and we go back to the dark early days of three zergs just circling Indar avoiding each other like the plague. Seperate sniping from infils, make infils only able to use secondary weapons, a good start to work from. Also get rid of their ESP darts.
for me i think they either remove aiming while cloaking or add an implant that help you see them.
I'd like to add that Desync gives the infiltrator's cloak even more of an advantage. Almost like peakers advantage but you have all the information and you're already aiming at their head. Just makes it even harder to counter a good infil player.
lots of work good job
and then you wonder why Indar Amerish and Hossin are good....nobody wanna play the rest.
nerfing these things about infil i think would be a great idea but if u nerf stalker what will nebelhexe do? anyway great vid
Stalker would still be broken tbh.
Gave Deep Op Stalker a first try today, to get my last ~300 kills for the Networked Emmissary and ended up going 6 k/d and 2.5 kpm.
A decently talented Heavy could pull these numbers too, sure, but this one took zero effort. I don't think I'd perform much worse on a 3min clock.
Idk what ppl, who say Stalker is weak are smoking.
Probably max main. Love that guy 🐸🔫
i miss powerknives
you forgot to mention tr stalkers with their kcap
This matters much less in zerg fights, planetside-scale fights
Incredible video DokP, i really loved the takes and the effort put in the editing and visuals to illustrate what you were saying making this a very good watch. I don't know if it was intentional for you to not mention the recon dart's spam with ammo box but i feel like its a topic often disregarded despite the game's scale when it comes to overpop in bases.
Recon dart spam is fine to me because it requires an engi to provide ammo and the infil to be more or less stationary next to that ammo. The infil will also be busy shooting the darts over and over so he can't actually shoot people himself. All that to barely get more relevant range than a motion spotter and have no live movement tracking is not worth it to me and definitely not OP.
@@DokPYT It's probably the only point of the video I disagree with. Darts do have the shorter duration and the ammo pack requierement, but that's a chore that will take "only" 15% to 20% of the infil's playtime (which is not super enjoyable for him indeed) but will cover way more area then the MS. Unlike what you say at 13:18 both have the same 50m radius, but you can have 4 darts placed at once, and shot far away in potentially unreachable places.
On smaller fight the MS 20m realtime spotting is op, but rarely usefull on bigger fights and bases, while 1 dart infil can recon the entire base as long as he grabs ammo every 60s.
So it should be nerfed a bit in a way too imo ^^'
I exclusively play NC stalker cloak and my salt portfolio has quadrupled 😂😂
I played this game for years, have a complete year spent on this game and I never complained about infiltrator at all. They never bothered me neither.
Infiltrator are good on open ground, adapt your play style to that.
This is game is full of whiners. To whine properly in the past you to do it on the PS2 reddit forums. That was only forum the old Dev's read.
The worst thing about planetside 2 is players that can't figure out ways to overcome problems.
Planetside 2 is a open world MMOFPS and if you can't figure out how to solve problems than quit.
This game has bent over backwards to cater to new players with no real success.
The only real infil I consider overpowered is the close range bolters like (Nuc)elusive1.
Hard to counter but not impossible.
With all the overblown complaints about this class, this video is level-headed with very intelligent suggestions for changes to infiltrator abilities, gear, and weapons. I would only add making nanoweave armor also protect your head, because currently it's useless.
I actually don't think that level design is a part of the problem other than maybe trying to close up small gaps that can be shot through. Despite not agreeing with the level design comments, I'll say again that the suggested modest balance changes to the class are really excellent. I don't often play infill (usually light assault or engineer) but if I do it's usually with stalker cloak, and I think nerfing that is appropriate.
I genuinely really do enjoy the presence of infiltrators on the battlefield. They add to the frenetic chaos that makes this game feel realistic. You should be punished for standing still on a battlefield, it adds exciting tension to the game.
As for the idea that cloaking is a strong ability, I just don't understand this point of view. Aside from the minor class changes suggested (which I think should be implemented), the class is really well balanced. The ability is already time limited (yes it should be reduced a little more) and at close range they are easy to spot. With the exception of NSO, I think this game perfectly nails the balance of how easy or difficult they are to see based on level of movement or distance, it's very well tuned.
My two setups are a desktop on medium-high graphics at 100 fps 144Hz, and a laptop on low graphics at 30 fps 60Hz. I simply don't have complaints about seeing them. Maybe some people genuinely struggle to see motion? To me it felt more like an acquired skill, but not too difficult after a few months of playing.
I don't think base design issue of open fields is as easy to fix as fixing infils themselfs unless you fill whole map with cover with cover and buildings. You'll end up out in the open at some point on pretty much any base. There's always an angle to be sniped from.
While base design is a general issue even on better bases infils are still an issue with how broken their kit is.
The infils should not be completely invisible, that's just dumb and unfair. Also being invisible while sniping also should not be allowed.
delete motion spotters, only recon darts should be used, maybe even reduce the speed at which recon darts recharge on ammo packs and reduce darts max capacity, for cloak id go for 30% reduced uptime and slower recharge and stalker should be deleted. for guns id make every DMR or long rifle take one more bullet at long ranges , its annoying as shit when some idiot hits u twice and cant track u, but u lose more than 50% hp just cuz of the damage model. playing in underpop vs infil spam will always be cancer if they can get 100% uptime on darts even if u run sensor shield suppressor u still need to find the invisible man who decides when he shoots u. spotting in general should also be nerfed, how long a spot lasts is too long should just be a red blip not full movement on radar but u get the dorito still on vision
Make infils melee and recon/hack only haha
really good analysis and suggestions
Infils are the sole reason why im not playing planetside 2.
how to fix infil:
cant ADS while clocked
no full auto weapons, none
there you go, fixed.
Yeah no. I'd rather remove snipers or at least cqc bolters from infils
Nice video, however there's a few critical things to look at that aren't mentioned:
1. No-no zones and other open terrain, exist because there isn't JUST infantry gameplay. it's not there to support Infils, it's there to support Vehicles moving in, through and from bases.
2. Every 'infil dominated base', refers to bases where there is open spaces. But frankly, open spaces isn't gonna win the objective as that's inside the base itself where other classes VASTLY dominate. That's not a bad thing, that's the whole point of certain classes.
3. Infils are there to kill off reinforcements and entrenched enemies. They're supposed to position themselves between the point/building and the spawn, and pick you off somewhere along that route where there is significantly less cover, and less chance of someone to be revived. There being less cover, is intentional.
Let's address the two abilities then:
1. The cloak being the 'strongest' ability in the game is entirely subjective, it certainly can be used to great extend by people who know wtf they're doing. If you get caught with you cloak, you're already at a disadvantage from the rest, not even account for certain other abilities of the enemy. As you cannot shoot with your cloak active, they however can very much shoot you.
2. Motion Detectors: They are great, and provide a benefits to **to all allies** not just the infil. The engi can fire recon darts too, and both recon darts and motion spotters can be destroyed.
3. To top it all off, and this is by far the most important aspect of any of these points on abilities you've mentioned: Both of these can be *directly* countered by either equipping a Darklight if they're close-by, shooting the recon darts/motionspotters, or equipping the Sensor Shield Implant.
Just let that sink in a little. There's no way to direct counter a Heavies shield, a Medic's healing, or LA's Jetpack. There's no way for you to reduce a HA's shield directly other than damage them, it can be flicked on instantly and they can still shoot back, so you just have to burn through their HP. A Medic, you better kill them quick because if they disengage they'll heal everything back up + they can undo any picks you've made within a 30sec time limit.
Not dogging on the classes, as they serve their purpose. But that's the entire point all of those classes serve their purpose. So how do you kill enemies than can have 1.5x your HP or an enemy with infinite sustain? You surprise them with flanks, and kill them before they can do so. And thus Infils and LA's exist.
How about the weapons:
1. Semi-auto's have always been the black sheep of snipers, because they were absolutely useless before. As by the time you land your other shots the enemy would've moved off, leaving them useless. They've gotten buffed and became popular because HA's can survive a direct hit to the head with Resist Shield, and Engi's can survive a direct shot to the head with Jocket on a Turret. So the Semi-auto's are a nice high DPS, high precision alternative to deal with these things.
Furthermore, that same update made scout rifles available to EVERY class, so are other classes supposed to be better Marksman than the class literally made to do so?
Also mentioning the hip-fire on the semi auto's, I can tell you from experience: It's absolute dogsh*t accuracy still. (And should stay that way)
2. I do agree with the the Obelisk, but more so on the heat mechanic in general being busted. A lot of FPS's rely on you having downtime to reload your weapon, and then being able to push when that enemy is reloading to score a kill. However this isn't just the obelisk but also the Betel and other related heat-based guns. There's a reason why it's a favorite.
3. Another solid point, is unstable ammo. Having play with and without unstable ammo on my VS character, it's incredibly unforgiving and generally combined with some already strong weapons like the Canis, it's hipefire gallore.
But if we're talking weapons, why not have a chat about other weapons like: The Lasher spam, point blank Deci shots, NC15 Phoenix, Jackhammer, The Baron, Betel, Thumper, Chaingun, Godsaw etc. Reason why I mention these, is they're the exact reason why some won't go near choke points or try and push point holds, and rather than dealing with them up close, deal with them from afar, hence people picking infil more as there's nothing you can do when there's so much spam aimed at you at pointholds or spawnrooms. So your only option is: Infil.
Then there's one last burning question, the meta composition for squad point hold. Why do you think most squads consist out of mostly Heavies and Medics with 1/2 Engi's/Max's and 1 infil?
You dont even need HA's in a good sq. More medics are just fine.
lol, just no.
very nice video, however when counting the infil bases you forgot that all bases are viable for stalker cloaking in :)
Atleast stalkers can't cap points anymore while cloaked ;)
Only the Sweaties VS heavies in Cobalt cry about infils. However, extreme well tought solutions to some of the issues.
They're on Miller too, don't worry.
Its not only HA and VS that cry over infils. Did you ever run into Nebelhex from zerg?
@@RisenOswald Never heard of Nebelhax, is that on Cobalt?
Skill issue