To answer Mr. Fletcher’s question that second mounting bracket on the turret is for the commander to mount a machinegun of his own, either in addition to or replacing the one on the anti-aircraft mount to the rear of the turret. There are a few photos during the video showing the tank with a M2 .50 caliber in that position in fact.
Mr. Fletcher having to admit that there's something he DOESN'T know about a particular tank? A rare day indeed, I would imagine. I wish I could help but I've got no clue! Thanks to David and all at the Museum for another excellent Tank Chat.
It's always a good thing when someone is able to admit they don't know something. That means they're always open to new knowledge, and not being stuck up know-it-alls.
To me, looks like a mount for a removable search-light. It's a bit larger than the .50 cal mounting, and reinforced to bear the weight on the mantlet, that would be my guess anyway. You see the same kind of mounting on some later tanks, large lights with some infra-red bulbs came about during korean war, though I'm speculating entirely.
The first Pattons were just up-engined Pershings. I'm of the opinion that the Pershing was so hated by the brass, that they re-named it after a simple re-power.
@@Roboticus_Prime_RCit wasn't the first time the military renamed something over a minor upgrade. I think it's to give the operators more confidence in the vehicles that were known to perform badly. This was also done with the F4F Wildcat; which was notoriously horrible at fighting Zeroes. They just renamed it the F6F Hellcat after upgrading the engine and cockpit. That could be wrong just my thoughts on it.
@@roguegen5536 yeah the hellcat was a redesign based on the aircraft carriers of the time. As an example they made the front landing wheels wider to help with carrier based landings. EDIT: speallng is erd ... LOL
The British: 'I say you yanks, isn't it awfully confusing having your tanks called M3, M4 light, M4 medium and all that... Why don't we start naming them after your Generals?' The Americans: 'Thanks I love it. M46 Patton, M48 Patton, M60 Patton :v...'
The US's ww2 tanks were named after Generals, mainly US civil war generals. M2 Stuart- Jeb Stuart M3 Lee/Grant- Ulysses S Grant, Robert E Lee M4 Sherman- William T. Sherman Jackson TD- Stonewall Jackson Pershing- Jack Pershing
Indeed, it's perfectly positioned for the commander to use when he's standing up in his hatch. Much more practical than the anti-air mount on the back of the turret in any case.
If you take into account the types of fighting in korea with the topography and the infantry mass charges a second mount for the .50 or a place to remount the hull .30 makes sense. Hull down or facing an enemy at higher elevations the hull mount only has a very limited firing arc. Remember these were the tanks that had to be rolled up on berms to provide infantry fire support.
When I went through Basic at Ft. Sill, they had a few M46's parked by the HQ building, and they had a M2 in the front mount and a M1918-1919 in the rear.
I could listen to David Fletcher talk about Tanks all day, the Tank Museum has a great collection and a great presenter to describe them. Thank you for your efforts guys!
I could listen to this man talk about military hardware forever. He reminds me of Sir Martyn Poliakoff, in that his knowledge and passion about his chosen subjects are unmatched! This channel rocks! Much
3:28 One way to tell you’re listening to a real expert who’s passionate about his topic : he will gladly admit he doesn’t know something because he is always eager to know more.
@@mcmoose64 Well technically it started development in 1918 but the version we know so well--the M2HB didn't enter production until the 1930s. Another well aged design is the Russian DShk which was deployed in the late 30s. Both are great designs but I have to admit the M2 looks more intimidating.
Regarding the tiger on the tank: the end of the Chinese year of the tiger is a sufficient explanation. But I worked with a Korean woman editing her MA dissertation, which had a lot to do with the importance of the tiger as a figure in Korean folk myth and culture. For instance, Korea is a land of mountains, and many mountains have a tiger shrine. It is because of the mountains that the Korean peninsula has maintained at least much of its independence from its neighbors. The tiger is the national animal of Korea (despite the extinction of indigenous tigers). I wonder, was the symbolic importance of the tiger to Korean culture a factor in adopting the M46 decoration? The south Korean people who saw these tanks would have understood that they were defending the country from an invader, like the traditional tiger. This would resonate. I don't know, and I've lost touch why my Korean friend. So I don't know if my speculations match with the truth. I just know that if I had seen those M46 photos 20-odd years ago, I'd have been asking her questions and thinking that this should be another bit in her dissertation.
As a Chinese I can explain, It's more to scare the Chinese troops. Just remember, China at those times was still mainly agrarian and rural. Many of the farmers and peasants of that time were very lowly educated to the point at best, they may only write out their names, that was it. Many of the ancient superstition, such as familial and ancestral worship etc were still believed at the time. And among many Chinese, even to this day, tigers were to be feared as the "king of all animals" and are vicious and people killers! Many Chinese, including the soldiers drafted at the time, still offer prayers and food offerings to Gods to protect them from wild rampaging animals, such as tigers! In fact, some tanks were also painting with demon faces for the same reason since many of the so called "Chinese Volunteers" were so superstitious of vicious animals and the supernatural.
I can say it enough, but I just LOVE this man! He just comes across as so extremely knowledgeable and approachable. I would feel completely comfortable sitting down to enjoy a pint and listen as he divulges a plethora of informative points about tanks. I know that would never happen, but I am jealous of those who do get the chance. Take care, David! You are a true gentleman and a scholar, sir! :)
I crewed M60's. We called them M60's usually, very seldom 'Patton' tanks. If somebody asked if it was a 'Patton tank', we'd say yes. By the way, who's the idiot who designed the wire mesh seats and back rests? I took a good back rest out of a target tank and used that.
I looked up another version of the M46 and the tank had a section of extra track mounted on the left side of the turret on the rack you asked about. You can google the M46, the tank is yellow all over and the article shows the various aspects of the outside of the tank.
It also makes much more sense to put the .50 there for firing and not on this rear mount. I think, the rear mount is just to keep the .50 out of sight during non-combat conditions.
I don't know if this is true or not but my father, a Korean war vet, said the reason they moved the exhaust from the wings to the center was because the infantrymen supporting the tanks were being overcome by carbon dioxide poison. As an Infantryman myself, I know that the best place to be is behind the tracks were you can see over the haul and off to flanks so it dose make some sense.
Probably carbon monoxide - getting a face full of either isn't exactly going to improve your day but CO much more dangerous because haemoglobin likes to bond with CO much more than with Oxygen. Interestingly with CO poisoning the blood turns pink.
Thanks for the chat Sir David. The bracket on top of the turret is indeed for a 50 BMG - your video uses photos of it being used as such. In any event, please keep “chatting”! Cheers from the Colonies!
David Fletcher made a guess and was correct. The unidentified bracket is for mounting the M2 machinegun. The difference between the front bracket and the rear bracket is what role the M2 is to be used. When attached to the front bracket, the role is ground engagements, and when on the back, it is in the role of anti-air defense.
The Germans used torsion bar suspension on their heavy tanks in WW2, I expect the US Army thought it was a good idea as it works well and needs little maintenance, regards John.
The Americans already used torsion bar suspension in the t18 and m26. Also the swedish used torsion bar suspension first in the L-60 (yes, i suppose it was German designed). During and post WW2 torsion bar suspension was common place in civilian use. Including companies like Hudson, Porche and Jaguar.
I guess Mr. Fletcher doesn't get to watch the final edit of his video He would have answered his own question about the additional MG mount over the gunners periscope.
(0:37) I LOVE this "classic" style of tank. It harkens back to the days of when I was a kid and watching scores of these things futilely try to fight against the likes of Godzilla and other monstrous terrors from the unknown. It's such an iconic design. :)
That thing forward of the commander's hatch is an optional pintle mount for the .50 cal. if the commander wanted to use it while sticking his head out of the hatch they'd use that mount. The pintle you see the gun mounted on in the video is for someone on the back deck to use.
Exactly. Often in American tanks (back in ancient times) a turret .30 (top mounted, not co-axial) was for the tank commander and a .50 was mounted near the turret rear for AA. Had to dismount from the tank and stand on the back deck to use it.
Undoubtedly someone else has already answered this but I didn't feel like scrolling through the comments but the bracket in question is actually for mounting an additional 50 caliber machine gun as a coaxial heavy machine gunfor the gunner to shoot. Its a pretty commonly featured capability on most American tanks from the Patton to the Abrams
A note on torsion bars: in the Auto industry, many medium to heavy duty vehicles use torsion bar style suspension for two large reasons, space constraints, and maintnence. Torsion bars are usually adjustable to some extent, while coil springs are not adjustable at all. One final note about torsion bars is that they are usually faster to replace, if they are not rusted into place.
Bogies are quicker to replace than torsion bars, they can also be adjusted to some extent (with compressers or spacers) while torsion bars are a set flexibility.
Thanks to tank chats! About that bracket: Several photos show it as a front mg mount, in fact at 5:23 there is a very good view of it. The rear mounted .50 cal mount was for anti-aircraft and sometimes anti-personnel fire. It's still a feature on American tanks today because, why not? As for naming the tank, I'm guessing they were hoping to finally develop a tank worthy of General Patton's name?
I mean the man did help pioneer the tanks evolution, not necessarily in the vehicle development but in the utilization of armor in a combined arms setting. Plus his men blew up a lot of nazis. So yeah we named a bunch of tanks after him lol😅Love this channel so much thanks for all you do. I’m coming across the pond and this place is top of my list.
The Bovington Tank Museum is in south Dorset just down the coast from where I grew up. I used to go there some summers with my father when I was little, although at the time I didn't know one tank from another. My grandfather was also in the tank corps there in WWII.
The mount at the front is for another 50 cal machinegun for the cupola at the front there. The rear one is for a man standing on the back to operate. So you could mount 2 if you wanted but mostly would be switched between positions when needed!!
Yes, that is actually a machine gun bracket for either a 0.30 caliber or 0.50 caliber machine gun for the commander. This was for anti-infantry use since the North Koreans and the Chinese had a bad habit of rushing en masse to plant explosives onto the tanks. Anti-aircraft use wasn't much after World War 2 since they switched to high-flying jets.
M46 and M47 are "Hollywood tanks", which were used to represent both Allied and German tanks in WWII movies in the early 1960s. --Bob Bailey in Maine, USA
Mr. Fletcher, that second turret mount that you were unsure of is a pintle mount for the M-2HB .50 cal. There is a picture of it with the machine gun in the mounted position in your video at 5:27 that was controlled by the loader. I hope this helps you in identifying additional features of this interesting if short-lived tank.
I was told by a museum guide that the bracket in front of the M46's turret was meant for a searchlight. No idea how valid that idea is, but at the time it made sense to me.
That's very possible. The Sherman had one of those too. It was mounted on the turret, but it could also be used hand held by the commander. The fitting was a lot simpler on the Sherman though.
I think you're right, the mount on the turret is for a 50 cal. I've found photos with the 50 mounted on the rear of the turret or on the front in that second mount. I think it only had the one 50 cal, but you had 2 options where to put it. Thanks for the great videos.
I think this time a crucial bit of information is missing. The M46 was originally the M26E2, basically (as said) an M26 with a new engine, transmission, extra road wheel, and moved exhausts. This is important, because it shows the philosophy, which was an updated M26. The M47 was an interim tank, rushed into production, combining bits of the M48 (to be) and the M46. The M48 was a lot better, but was still a compromise, whilst the M60 wasn't supposed to be, but the new American tank design wasn't much good, so, an M48 was upgunned, with a 105mm, and thence, other improvements (but don't mention the M60E2!)
The front mount is also for the 50 cal browning. Period photos show a 50 cal mounted and manned by the tanker in the right side of the turret. Some tanks had a second mount to the rear of the turret that was intended as a transport option. Theoretically that rear mount could also be fired by an operator standing on the rear deck.
@The Tank Museum the bracket that Mr. Fletcher is speaking of, is indeed another weapons mount, typically a .30 cal Browning or an M2 .50cal. If you Google the M46 Patton you'll see period pictures of a commanders weapon mounted there.
Pretty certain from photo evidence that the bracket is indeed for an extra machine gun. Great video of a classic cold war warrior. The Sherman E8 was preferred in many situations over the Pershing because it was better for hill climbing. The Pershing as you rightly say was very under powered. Thank you David!
The M46 was essentially an improvised stopgap tank intended to bolster the inadequate M4 and M26 tanks in service when the Korean War broke out. Although the Patton I had a much more powerful engine and more reliable and simpler to operate drivetrain, the 90mm gun and the sighting system were basically unchanged from the Pershing, which explains the short operational life and low production numbers of the M46. Analysis of WWII tank vs tank combat revealed a remarkable advantage to the tank scoring the first hit, which often nullified advantages of firepower and protection. To exploit this first-hit advantage, the US Army decided to replace stadiametric rangefinders, which were common features of most WWII tanks, with a more accurate long-baseline stereoscopic rangefinding system. The follow-on M47 Patton II tank was a marriage of the M46's excellent powerplant and transmission to a new turret equipped with the improved M36 90mm gun and the M12 rangefinder.
From the comments below, and a careful review of the film footage, I see that the second pointle mount is not for a second MG, but an alternative mount for the one .50 MG. One mount high and to the rear for AA, and a lower forward pointing one for ground makes total sense.
The extra machine gun pintle mount that's on top of the gunner's periscope protector is for the placement of the .50 directly in front of the commander so he can grab it and use it against infantry. The original placement for the .50 cal is more for anti-aircraft use. What the U.S. army found out is that, especially when you have air superiority (like in the later stages of WW II and Korean war), the placement of the M2 is redundant, especially since against infantry, the commander or loader have to be outside of the turret to use it properly. So, on the M46, the secondary pintle mount became standard so the crew can load the M2 here or grab a second machine gun and loaded here to use against infantry.
Read the Honeycutt book on the M 26 it talked about all the changes and they live in them every change and modifications including where the mufflers are there and the joy the two .50 cal MG mounts. There were so many they just renamed it M46. The majority of them were made from M26.
I believe the torsion bar suspension was one of the first designs when the United States called for designing new tanks to modernize there armor core pre ww2. It was more expensive and production was harder to mass produce so they discarded the design. Later on realized it gives a better ride and a superior design mobility wise so they returned to the torsion bar suspension years later.
By the third year of the war, tank on tank actions became rare and the Shermans made a comeback as they were best for running up and down steep hills to provide support fire on infantry.
David said they didn't know what the front mount was for then we see photos of the Patton in action with a MG mounted on it! It was called Patton because he such a influential general. He and Eisenhower created the first armored brigade in Texas, with Eisenhower as chief of staff. They came up with the idea of an exercise in which they would move the brigade from Texas to Nevada in 3 days, working out the logistics so they were totally independent of outside support. Unfortunately the Army considered it all a stunt, but the Germans definitely paid attention! The Brits also formulated tactics with their tank forces, and their government also ignored the lessons learned that logistics and travel speed would be very important in future wars.
That forward mount is for a .50 or a.30 they were used to curtail the ardor of Peoples volunteers during swarming attacks. M-4 s and M-24s did the same thing
Thank you for another great Tank Chat Mr. Fletcher! I'd like to know if he owns a tank or any historical vehicles himself? Someone please donate this man a tank of his own!
You dudes at the Tank chat museum ROCK!!! an I LOVE the M46 Patton Tank... its 1 of my All Time favorite Tanks... it was Reliable an had a Deadly Gun, It had Good Strong Armor an had Good Speed... as it could go 30 MPH an the m26 pershing could jus do about 22 or maybe 23 or 24 mph... the m26 was a good tank but its not to good speed an also, its transmission wasn't all that great compared to the M46 Patton... As a lotta the german tanks could do 25 26 or even 29 mph... The M46 Tank Performed Great against the Nork's tanks (Nork is a slang nickname for north Koreans I got from a videogame) an the Chinese tanks as they used t34/85's an the M46 really HIT em hard... an the M46 was Good at Killing all those huge swarms of Chinese soldiers... (so were the other tanks we had, but still) Also, I Must say, if WW2 Lasted longer, like if the German's did manage to fight off the soviets at berlin or seelow heights, an we got to deploy the M46 against the panther's an tiger's an king tiger's an panzer 4's it would've performed very well against em... M46 Patton. Very Good Tank... an if Operation Downfall happened, this Tank would've done great against the Japanese fortifications an tanks an artillery.
It's a shame there wasn't a stronger committment to the Pershing early on in WW2. Had they sped up the development of the M26 they might have evolved it to the M46 in time enough for DDay. It would have been interesting to have one or two of these mixed in with Shermans in any given Allied tank column rolling across France and Germany.
I think the second bracket is so that the .50 cal can be used either from inside the hatch or standing behind the turret. I have seen other tanks do this before
The "bracket" that he's questioning is a pintle mount for the .50 Cal, to enable the commander to fire to the front from his cupola. The existing rear pedestal mount where the museum tank has its .50 mounted, was an awful location that required a crewman to exit the vehicle or an accompanying infantryman to fire it. Most photos from Korea show the M2 mounted in the forward location.
this is an early M46 so the machine gun would have originally been in front of the hatch. The turret looks to have been modified to move the gun back and they didn't bother to remove the bracket. I'm guessing the modification would have been done in Korea and possibly for Operation Ripper if the tiger paint scheme is original.
![YoungBoy Never Broke Again - Catch Me [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/KxwEXXFQMTY/mqdefault.jpg)
Let's appreciate the people who can pay a prateon and make those awesome tank chat possible, thank to them
le forestier damien thank you patreons!
Thank you!
Thank you
Hear here.
Yes. They are awsome.
To answer Mr. Fletcher’s question that second mounting bracket on the turret is for the commander to mount a machinegun of his own, either in addition to or replacing the one on the anti-aircraft mount to the rear of the turret. There are a few photos during the video showing the tank with a M2 .50 caliber in that position in fact.
Trust the Americans to put machine-guns literally anywhere they can
@@1IbramGaunt We like having fire superiority what can I say
@@someretardontheinternetCan't argue with that, jolly good carry on old chap 🎩
Mr. Fletcher having to admit that there's something he DOESN'T know about a particular tank? A rare day indeed, I would imagine. I wish I could help but I've got no clue! Thanks to David and all at the Museum for another excellent Tank Chat.
It's always a good thing when someone is able to admit they don't know something. That means they're always open to new knowledge, and not being stuck up know-it-alls.
@Republic Of Texas my college lecture never called himself an "expert" as we know what an ex is and he was not a spurt either"
He guessed correctly, it's an additional machine gun bracket.
To me, looks like a mount for a removable search-light. It's a bit larger than the .50 cal mounting, and reinforced to bear the weight on the mantlet, that would be my guess anyway. You see the same kind of mounting on some later tanks, large lights with some infra-red bulbs came about during korean war, though I'm speculating entirely.
@@edmundscycles1 I was told. An X is the unknown quantity and a spurt is a drip under pressure.
Minor quibble, but for the group: M26A1 also had the fume extractor/bore evacuator towards the muzzle, it is not an identifying feature for the M46.
The first Pattons were just up-engined Pershings. I'm of the opinion that the Pershing was so hated by the brass, that they re-named it after a simple re-power.
@@Roboticus_Prime_RCit wasn't the first time the military renamed something over a minor upgrade. I think it's to give the operators more confidence in the vehicles that were known to perform badly. This was also done with the F4F Wildcat; which was notoriously horrible at fighting Zeroes. They just renamed it the F6F Hellcat after upgrading the engine and cockpit. That could be wrong just my thoughts on it.
@@roguegen5536 The Hellcat was an entirely new design. Far more than just an engine/cockpit upgrade.
@@asdic888 I stand corrected then. I had heard years ago it was just an upengined version, but that was apparently wrong. Thanks.
@@roguegen5536 yeah the hellcat was a redesign based on the aircraft carriers of the time. As an example they made the front landing wheels wider to help with carrier based landings.
EDIT: speallng is erd ... LOL
The British: 'I say you yanks, isn't it awfully confusing having your tanks called M3, M4 light, M4 medium and all that... Why don't we start naming them after your Generals?'
The Americans: 'Thanks I love it. M46 Patton, M48 Patton, M60 Patton :v...'
The US's ww2 tanks were named after Generals, mainly US civil war generals.
M2 Stuart- Jeb Stuart
M3 Lee/Grant- Ulysses S Grant, Robert E Lee
M4 Sherman- William T. Sherman
Jackson TD- Stonewall Jackson
Pershing- Jack Pershing
@@jjp945 And the M1 Abrams, in a slight change of convention, was named after a cool 80s singer
ruclips.net/video/tSNWeXGZMcU/видео.html
@@WanderlustZero , the Abrams is named after Brigadier general Creighton Abrams. He was a us tank commander in Europe during ww2.
Whoosh
JJ P wrong. They are all British names for the lend lease tanks they received.
I see a Patton emerging
It's as if the Americans couldn't think of another name, for a tank that is ....
sad trombone whaaaa whaaaa.
I'm generally in favor of puns...
@@edthompson6131 You get five stars for that one.
Groan.
If you look at the photos shown in the video, you can see that he is actually correct, they have a .50 M2 on the bracket.
Indeed, it's perfectly positioned for the commander to use when he's standing up in his hatch. Much more practical than the anti-air mount on the back of the turret in any case.
Well spotted, there are a few photos with the 50 at the front. Good guess by DF.
If you take into account the types of fighting in korea with the topography and the infantry mass charges a second mount for the .50 or a place to remount the hull .30 makes sense. Hull down or facing an enemy at higher elevations the hull mount only has a very limited firing arc. Remember these were the tanks that had to be rolled up on berms to provide infantry fire support.
Excellent view at 5:31
When I went through Basic at Ft. Sill, they had a few M46's parked by the HQ building, and they had a M2 in the front mount and a M1918-1919 in the rear.
I could listen to David Fletcher talk about Tanks all day, the Tank Museum has a great collection and a great presenter to describe them. Thank you for your efforts guys!
i feel the same way
Massive respect to David Fletcher MBE! The way he articulates his enthusiasm for history is inspiring 👏👏👏
I could listen to this man talk about military hardware forever.
He reminds me of Sir Martyn Poliakoff, in that his knowledge and passion about his chosen subjects are unmatched!
This channel rocks! Much
0:00 oh dear Sir David I do indeed like myself a tank chat. But I am already subscribed! If only I could subscribe again....
Masada1911 Maybe Patreon is how you subscribe again?
Liam Roggenkamp I would but I cant really afford to right now :-(
I get it. I can’t either
I have a business phone. I subscribe through that as well as on my home PC. 2 subs, double the support!
Ima Gremlin twice the phones, double the support
3:28 One way to tell you’re listening to a real expert who’s passionate about his topic : he will gladly admit he doesn’t know something because he is always eager to know more.
It's amazing that the Cal.50 American from WW2 is still in service.
Almost as much service as David Fletcher
Actually dates back to 1918 !!!
Success breeds success.
Mr. Browning was a rather ingenious designer. A good many of his designs or at least operating principles have stood the test of time.
If it ain't broke don't fix it
@@mcmoose64 Well technically it started development in 1918 but the version we know so well--the M2HB didn't enter production until the 1930s.
Another well aged design is the Russian DShk which was deployed in the late 30s. Both are great designs but I have to admit the M2 looks more intimidating.
Regarding the tiger on the tank: the end of the Chinese year of the tiger is a sufficient explanation. But I worked with a Korean woman editing her MA dissertation, which had a lot to do with the importance of the tiger as a figure in Korean folk myth and culture. For instance, Korea is a land of mountains, and many mountains have a tiger shrine. It is because of the mountains that the Korean peninsula has maintained at least much of its independence from its neighbors. The tiger is the national animal of Korea (despite the extinction of indigenous tigers).
I wonder, was the symbolic importance of the tiger to Korean culture a factor in adopting the M46 decoration? The south Korean people who saw these tanks would have understood that they were defending the country from an invader, like the traditional tiger. This would resonate.
I don't know, and I've lost touch why my Korean friend. So I don't know if my speculations match with the truth. I just know that if I had seen those M46 photos 20-odd years ago, I'd have been asking her questions and thinking that this should be another bit in her dissertation.
I don't know why but this made me sad.
As a Chinese I can explain, It's more to scare the Chinese troops. Just remember, China at those times was still mainly agrarian and rural. Many of the farmers and peasants of that time were very lowly educated to the point at best, they may only write out their names, that was it. Many of the ancient superstition, such as familial and ancestral worship etc were still believed at the time. And among many Chinese, even to this day, tigers were to be feared as the "king of all animals" and are vicious and people killers! Many Chinese, including the soldiers drafted at the time, still offer prayers and food offerings to Gods to protect them from wild rampaging animals, such as tigers! In fact, some tanks were also painting with demon faces for the same reason since many of the so called "Chinese Volunteers" were so superstitious of vicious animals and the supernatural.
I did some training along the DMZ and I swear I heard a tiger roar one night.
I can say it enough, but I just LOVE this man! He just comes across as so extremely knowledgeable and approachable. I would feel completely comfortable sitting down to enjoy a pint and listen as he divulges a plethora of informative points about tanks. I know that would never happen, but I am jealous of those who do get the chance. Take care, David! You are a true gentleman and a scholar, sir! :)
The Tank Museum and David Fletcher (including his mustache) has given me a new appreciation for this tank
I crewed M60's. We called them M60's usually, very seldom 'Patton' tanks. If somebody asked if it was a 'Patton tank', we'd say yes. By the way, who's the idiot who designed the wire mesh seats and back rests? I took a good back rest out of a target tank and used that.
Comfort doesn't count for much when your survivability is counted in minutes or hours I suspect.?
Thank you for your service. When did you serve?
@Robert Aegidius lol gunning down vietnamese and iraqi children and blowing up their cities doesn't protect anyone
@@cbsmash There is always one.
There's a person on that moustache!
Good one!
That's hilarious
The tragedy is he must think it looks good ?
@@gegwen7440 You're right. It's fabulous.
I looked up another version of the M46 and the tank had a section of extra track mounted on the left side of the turret on the rack you asked about. You can google the M46, the tank is yellow all over and the article shows the various aspects of the outside of the tank.
"Well... it's a vehicle worth looking at."
High praise, indeed!
Finding a new Tank Chat is the best kind of present when logging in. Thank you!
Thanks again Mr.Fletcher for your knowledge of tanks ,and being so entertaining in the process! 👍🇬🇧
Thank you sir Fletcher, always a pleasure.
And hats of to you, the people that support on Patreon.
"it's a vehicle worth looking at", love David Fletcher
The David Attenborough of tanks I salute you sir I love all your work and sharpe whit
'we don't don't what the bracket is for'
0:48 1:25 1:44 3:08 4:00 4:07 4:36 5:20 5:28
I think we know what its for now lol
Haha
It also makes much more sense to put the .50 there for firing and not on this rear mount. I think, the rear mount is just to keep the .50 out of sight during non-combat conditions.
David Fletcher.... It's why we're here
I don't know if this is true or not but my father, a Korean war vet, said the reason they moved the exhaust from the wings to the center was because the infantrymen supporting the tanks were being overcome by carbon dioxide poison. As an Infantryman myself, I know that the best place to be is behind the tracks were you can see over the haul and off to flanks so it dose make some sense.
Probably carbon monoxide - getting a face full of either isn't exactly going to improve your day but CO much more dangerous because haemoglobin likes to bond with CO much more than with Oxygen.
Interestingly with CO poisoning the blood turns pink.
@@rosiehawtrey Yeah, carbon dioxide overdose will put you to sleep, carbon monoxide overdose will put you to sleep forever
They moved them from the centre to the wings, not the other way round.
@@rosiehawtrey What is CO
@@sandemike Carbon monoxide.
The chemical symbol for carbon is C and for Oxygen O.
David 'no F's given' Fletcher.
Brilliant!
Great to know more about this, definatly catches the eye when strolling round the tank museum :)
Definitely.
@@craigkoehler4363 Definotely
Defiantly lmao 🤣
Thanks for the chat Sir David. The bracket on top of the turret is indeed for a 50 BMG - your video uses photos of it being used as such. In any event, please keep “chatting”! Cheers from the Colonies!
David Fletcher made a guess and was correct. The unidentified bracket is for mounting the M2 machinegun. The difference between the front bracket and the rear bracket is what role the M2 is to be used. When attached to the front bracket, the role is ground engagements, and when on the back, it is in the role of anti-air defense.
The Germans used torsion bar suspension on their heavy tanks in WW2, I expect the US Army thought it was a good idea as it works well
and needs little maintenance, regards John.
The Americans already used torsion bar suspension in the t18 and m26.
Also the swedish used torsion bar suspension first in the L-60 (yes, i suppose it was German designed).
During and post WW2 torsion bar suspension was common place in civilian use. Including companies like Hudson, Porche and Jaguar.
Thank you Mr Fletcher .
I love Mr. Fletcher. He looks to be in rough health so I hope he is doing okay. We need more Mr. Fletchers.
Just from photos on Google, it looks like it's the Commanders .50 mount for anti pers/material and the rear mount is for .50 anti air mount.
David Fletcher, David Willey. Two David's for the price of one. 👍
I guess Mr. Fletcher doesn't get to watch the final edit of his video He would have answered his own question about the additional MG mount over the gunners periscope.
Good guess he made all the same.
Spot light mount.
Ahh ~ Master Fletcher = RESPECT! Plus interesting content. Cheers
Idk why but after two videos I am now attached to this guy, the way he says the intro,
Thoroughly enjoyed another excellent Tank Chat.👍
Brilliant M-46 presentation spot on.
(0:37) I LOVE this "classic" style of tank. It harkens back to the days of when I was a kid and watching scores of these things futilely try to fight against the likes of Godzilla and other monstrous terrors from the unknown. It's such an iconic design. :)
Just magnificent, thanks a lot Mr.Fletcher, just magnificent, greets, Levi
That thing forward of the commander's hatch is an optional pintle mount for the .50 cal. if the commander wanted to use it while sticking his head out of the hatch they'd use that mount. The pintle you see the gun mounted on in the video is for someone on the back deck to use.
Exactly. Often in American tanks (back in ancient times) a turret .30 (top mounted, not co-axial) was for the tank commander and a .50 was mounted near the turret rear for AA. Had to dismount from the tank and stand on the back deck to use it.
Undoubtedly someone else has already answered this but I didn't feel like scrolling through the comments but the bracket in question is actually for mounting an additional 50 caliber machine gun as a coaxial heavy machine gunfor the gunner to shoot. Its a pretty commonly featured capability on most American tanks from the Patton to the Abrams
A note on torsion bars: in the Auto industry, many medium to heavy duty vehicles use torsion bar style suspension for two large reasons, space constraints, and maintnence. Torsion bars are usually adjustable to some extent, while coil springs are not adjustable at all. One final note about torsion bars is that they are usually faster to replace, if they are not rusted into place.
Bogies are quicker to replace than torsion bars, they can also be adjusted to some extent (with compressers or spacers) while torsion bars are a set flexibility.
Thanks to tank chats! About that bracket: Several photos show it as a front mg mount, in fact at 5:23 there is a very good view of it. The rear mounted .50 cal mount was for anti-aircraft and sometimes anti-personnel fire. It's still a feature on American tanks today because, why not? As for naming the tank, I'm guessing they were hoping to finally develop a tank worthy of General Patton's name?
And after hearing so many Pattons consecutively I read "Thank you for our new Pattons". There's an idea.
I mean the man did help pioneer the tanks evolution, not necessarily in the vehicle development but in the utilization of armor in a combined arms setting. Plus his men blew up a lot of nazis. So yeah we named a bunch of tanks after him lol😅Love this channel so much thanks for all you do. I’m coming across the pond and this place is top of my list.
The Bovington Tank Museum is in south Dorset just down the coast from where I grew up. I used to go there some summers with my father when I was little, although at the time I didn't know one tank from another. My grandfather was also in the tank corps there in WWII.
A local museum has a m47 Patton on display. Really cool to see one
The mount at the front is for another 50 cal machinegun for the cupola at the front there. The rear one is for a man standing on the back to operate. So you could mount 2 if you wanted but mostly would be switched between positions when needed!!
That bracket on the side, they mounted a few links of the track on it
Really good video. Good to know the difference between M26 and the M46.
We need a tank chat wtih Fletcher and Moran. That would be epic.
I only come here to listen to David! What a guy!
Yes, that is actually a machine gun bracket for either a 0.30 caliber or 0.50 caliber machine gun for the commander. This was for anti-infantry use since the North Koreans and the Chinese had a bad habit of rushing en masse to plant explosives onto the tanks. Anti-aircraft use wasn't much after World War 2 since they switched to high-flying jets.
M46 and M47 are "Hollywood tanks", which were used to represent both Allied and German tanks in WWII movies in the early 1960s. --Bob Bailey in Maine, USA
Mr. Fletcher, that second turret mount that you were unsure of is a pintle mount for the M-2HB .50 cal. There is a picture of it with the machine gun in the mounted position in your video at 5:27 that was controlled by the loader. I hope this helps you in identifying additional features of this interesting if short-lived tank.
I was told by a museum guide that the bracket in front of the M46's turret was meant for a searchlight. No idea how valid that idea is, but at the time it made sense to me.
Could be a versatile mount for both.
Unfortunately no definite answer as of yet.
That's very possible. The Sherman had one of those too. It was mounted on the turret, but it could also be used hand held by the commander. The fitting was a lot simpler on the Sherman though.
A tank chat about the m36 jackson would be really nice!!! It's (imo) the best looking tank destroyer ever built!!
Do they have one?
@@djfitzgerald111 i certainly hope so!!! It's not the rarest of vehicles!!
I cannot recall seeing a Jackson there.
They do have n Achilles though.
Best looking after the Jagdpanther
@@gozza7199 nahh m36 looks miles better than the jagdpanther
I think you're right, the mount on the turret is for a 50 cal. I've found photos with the 50 mounted on the rear of the turret or on the front in that second mount. I think it only had the one 50 cal, but you had 2 options where to put it. Thanks for the great videos.
M24 the pattons 'mini me'.Great video,thanks.Haynes manuals a godsend.
I think this time a crucial bit of information is missing. The M46 was originally the M26E2, basically (as said) an M26 with a new engine, transmission, extra road wheel, and moved exhausts. This is important, because it shows the philosophy, which was an updated M26. The M47 was an interim tank, rushed into production, combining bits of the M48 (to be) and the M46. The M48 was a lot better, but was still a compromise, whilst the M60 wasn't supposed to be, but the new American tank design wasn't much good, so, an M48 was upgunned, with a 105mm, and thence, other improvements (but don't mention the M60E2!)
Rear mount was for AA work and storage. Front mount normal TC use.
Fletcher certainly deserves a patton the back for this one :)
Take my like and leave
_*rimshot_
The front mount is also for the 50 cal browning. Period photos show a 50 cal mounted and manned by the tanker in the right side of the turret. Some tanks had a second mount to the rear of the turret that was intended as a transport option. Theoretically that rear mount could also be fired by an operator standing on the rear deck.
@The Tank Museum the bracket that Mr. Fletcher is speaking of, is indeed another weapons mount, typically a .30 cal Browning or an M2 .50cal. If you Google the M46 Patton you'll see period pictures of a commanders weapon mounted there.
Another excellent and very informative tank chat . First class work chaps 😃👍
Pretty certain from photo evidence that the bracket is indeed for an extra machine gun. Great video of a classic cold war warrior. The Sherman E8 was preferred in many situations over the Pershing because it was better for hill climbing. The Pershing as you rightly say was very under powered. Thank you David!
The M46 was essentially an improvised stopgap tank intended to bolster the inadequate M4 and M26 tanks in service when the Korean War broke out. Although the Patton I had a much more powerful engine and more reliable and simpler to operate drivetrain, the 90mm gun and the sighting system were basically unchanged from the Pershing, which explains the short operational life and low production numbers of the M46. Analysis of WWII tank vs tank combat revealed a remarkable advantage to the tank scoring the first hit, which often nullified advantages of firepower and protection. To exploit this first-hit advantage, the US Army decided to replace stadiametric rangefinders, which were common features of most WWII tanks, with a more accurate long-baseline stereoscopic rangefinding system. The follow-on M47 Patton II tank was a marriage of the M46's excellent powerplant and transmission to a new turret equipped with the improved M36 90mm gun and the M12 rangefinder.
From the comments below, and a careful review of the film footage, I see that the second pointle mount is not for a second MG, but an alternative mount for the one .50 MG. One mount high and to the rear for AA, and a lower forward pointing one for ground makes total sense.
Support for early night sights like starlight ones so they could see at night also can add a spotlight it was so you could move it and turn it
The extra machine gun pintle mount that's on top of the gunner's periscope protector is for the placement of the .50 directly in front of the commander so he can grab it and use it against infantry. The original placement for the .50 cal is more for anti-aircraft use. What the U.S. army found out is that, especially when you have air superiority (like in the later stages of WW II and Korean war), the placement of the M2 is redundant, especially since against infantry, the commander or loader have to be outside of the turret to use it properly. So, on the M46, the secondary pintle mount became standard so the crew can load the M2 here or grab a second machine gun and loaded here to use against infantry.
"He was an impressive fellow in his day, that may have something to do with it!" Time they publish a book with the quotes of Mr D Fletcher.
Thank you for another great video
Read the Honeycutt book on the M 26 it talked about all the changes and they live in them every change and modifications including where the mufflers are there and the joy the two .50 cal MG mounts. There were so many they just renamed it M46. The majority of them were made from M26.
I believe the torsion bar suspension was one of the first designs when the United States called for designing new tanks to modernize there armor core pre ww2. It was more expensive and production was harder to mass produce so they discarded the design. Later on realized it gives a better ride and a superior design mobility wise so they returned to the torsion bar suspension years later.
By the third year of the war, tank on tank actions became rare and the Shermans made a comeback as they were best for running up and down steep hills to provide support fire on infantry.
My only wish for this Xmas is that Santa David from the tank museum brings me a gift 🤣🤣
Since I've subscribed a long time ago 😁
the bracket on the front is for a secondary crew served weapon, like possibly a mark 19.
The front bracket is an alternate position for the 0.50 which is more ergonomic for the TC to use.
David said they didn't know what the front mount was for then we see photos of the Patton in action with a MG mounted on it! It was called Patton because he such a influential general. He and Eisenhower created the first armored brigade in Texas, with Eisenhower as chief of staff. They came up with the idea of an exercise in which they would move the brigade from Texas to Nevada in 3 days, working out the logistics so they were totally independent of outside support. Unfortunately the Army considered it all a stunt, but the Germans definitely paid attention! The Brits also formulated tactics with their tank forces, and their government also ignored the lessons learned that logistics and travel speed would be very important in future wars.
That forward mount is for a .50 or a.30
they were used to curtail the ardor of Peoples volunteers during swarming attacks. M-4 s and M-24s did the same thing
Thank you for another great Tank Chat Mr. Fletcher! I'd like to know if he owns a tank or any historical vehicles himself? Someone please donate this man a tank of his own!
You dudes at the Tank chat museum ROCK!!! an I LOVE the M46 Patton Tank... its 1 of my All Time favorite Tanks... it was Reliable an had a Deadly Gun, It had Good Strong Armor an had Good Speed... as it could go 30 MPH an the m26 pershing could jus do about 22 or maybe 23 or 24 mph... the m26 was a good tank but its not to good speed an also, its transmission wasn't all that great compared to the M46 Patton... As a lotta the german tanks could do 25 26 or even 29 mph... The M46 Tank Performed Great against the Nork's tanks (Nork is a slang nickname for north Koreans I got from a videogame) an the Chinese tanks as they used t34/85's an the M46 really HIT em hard... an the M46 was Good at Killing all those huge swarms of Chinese soldiers... (so were the other tanks we had, but still) Also, I Must say, if WW2 Lasted longer, like if the German's did manage to fight off the soviets at berlin or seelow heights, an we got to deploy the M46 against the panther's an tiger's an king tiger's an panzer 4's it would've performed very well against em... M46 Patton. Very Good Tank... an if Operation Downfall happened, this Tank would've done great against the Japanese fortifications an tanks an artillery.
Looks like that front bracket is for moving the M2 Browning from a rearward anti-air role to a forward anti-infantry role.
It’s not that we couldn’t think of another name, it’s because Patton was such a great tank General he deserved more than one (or two).
Yes, track tension, the Chieftain's favorite subject.
The Patton series tanks served America well for decades. Their last hurrah was during the 1st Gulf War with the Marines.
It's a shame there wasn't a stronger committment to the Pershing early on in WW2. Had they sped up the development of the M26 they might have evolved it to the M46 in time enough for DDay. It would have been interesting to have one or two of these mixed in with Shermans in any given Allied tank column rolling across France and Germany.
I think the second bracket is so that the .50 cal can be used either from inside the hatch or standing behind the turret. I have seen other tanks do this before
100% right
The "bracket" that he's questioning is a pintle mount for the .50 Cal, to enable the commander to fire to the front from his cupola. The existing rear pedestal mount where the museum tank has its .50 mounted, was an awful location that required a crewman to exit the vehicle or an accompanying infantryman to fire it. Most photos from Korea show the M2 mounted in the forward location.
Lap Gun. Hadnt heard that Brit-Term before. Makes sense!! Cheers!
Please make a vid with focus on barrels; blast deflectors, fume extractors, rifling; left right, none, length per caliber, shell type etc.
I've found plenty of photos online of the MG in the front mount, very few where it is now!
from the pic you showed that bracket is a machinegun mount just another place you can put the 50cal
Blimey !! .... You've aged. .... I can't believe how old you look now Mr Fletcher ?. .... Keep up the good work
I enjoy these shows
this is an early M46 so the machine gun would have originally been in front of the hatch. The turret looks to have been modified to move the gun back and they didn't bother to remove the bracket. I'm guessing the modification would have been done in Korea and possibly for Operation Ripper if the tiger paint scheme is original.