I did the exact same thing on my SBF TW170 heads years ago and flowed them - found a gain of 15-17 cfm on the intakes. Definitely worth doing. Easiest flow you can pick up.
I would really like to know about the secrets of flow swirl as practiced on the aftermarket Boss 429 heads, and used to win in Pro Stock for many years. Swirl obviously works, as modern "Hemi Pro Stock" heads just ain't Hemis. Hemis are about cross-flow and scavenging more than thorough and complete mixture burning, it seems, which is why they are popular in the alcohol classes. I further wonder, given a blank slate, what the valve angle/deck angle would be AND how canted off-coaxial the valves would be compared to the cylinder. Would we see 1.5" of valve lift? 30° of valve angle from coaxial? I am guessing the ideal is a somewhat difficult thing to achieve, as turning the cam bump into a weirdly-angled side-angle valve travel must be quite challenging.
@@exploranatorport bias helps impart swirl…. Those heads are amazing 😎 listen to David Vizard (I listen on 2x… he speaks too slow for me 😅) Happy grinding 😎
Great video. I once removed a pair of cylinder heads, just cleaned the ports with abrasive rolls and that’s all I’d did. The difference I felt in acceleration was actually astonishing.
Your video is full of hidden and interesting tricks that only experienced builders can se. In this case I can see it and it is about laminated flowing gas and It would be interesting to see a dyno run with a set of heads not modified verses s a set that are downsized and grinded with 60 grit and flow-matched to the unmodified ones. Great video !!!
Well, that’s HUGE gains from smoothing up a port but you have so much experience in porting that you know where to concentrate when you do the rough grinding to get the best shape around in the bowl area. A typical person with 0 experience may not know where to concentrate on UNLESS they go back and check out some of your older videos (which would be smart). Thanks for showing the process and gains. I agree this is the best bang for your money.
I have 0 experience and been alsays smoothing the ports and polish them to mirror. 😁 Then after years and 1000 hours of hard work they told me that for a better flow the walls has to be rough to increase turbolence. Still do not know to this days what polished vs rough do in performance, but I keep doing it 😂
@Robert King holy smokes, one could write War and Peace about this, but in essence you need to separate power and flow in your head and think of them as individual properties. "a better flow the walls has to be rough" - this is not true. Two statements: 1. for an engine running CARBS - make the runners 'rough' (a relative term here) to about an 80-120 grit finish 2. For an engine with INJECTORS make the runners as smooth and polished as you can. Let me see if I can keep this simple: in a carburatted engine, the runners are flowing air + fuel. It is important to keep the fuel in suspension in the air. The slight turbulence at the boundary (against the walls) helps this. HOWEVER, if the runners were smooth, whilst they would flow more on a test bench, fuel would fall out of suspension and so power would be compromised. In an injected engine where the fuel is being added to air at the back of the valves, there is only air flowing through the runners so flow can be maximised by polishing and the previous paragraph does not apply.
I love the analogy and it's so so true anywhere and everywhere. I don't know where I got it from but for as long as I could remember I always wanted to be the best and no matter what I was doing I wanted to do it better than anyone around even the person I was learning from. I always found the hardest working most knowledgeable person and work right next to them. You put the work in then when it's recognized you get the raise or if it's not recognized and you think you're valuable, you go get that raise yourself. It's your responsibility no one else's. 🇺🇸💪🏻👊🏻🤙🏼
This is a great video!! This is the kind of things I always wonder about!! I've got my 781's, and have been thinking about smoothing them out like this, but had no idea if it would even be worth the effort. Looks like it might be worth a few hours of work to me!! Thanks for sharing this, great stuff!!
I'd say I've seen results on anything from a moped to a big block. You can always find something to clean up. Depending on "how bad" it is to begin with is proportional to the gains you'll see.
Really glad to see this, I've been wondering what just smoothing them out would do, if anything. Hope you get the chance to do a different set and see if a similar change happens.
Yeah that’s a really impressive gains especially since you didn’t make the port any larger It just increased the efficiency so that should work damn good!! Awesome content sir!
@@peterdarr383 well sure of course especially since he used the carbide burr to take out any irregularities but the amount he gained for the minor amount of material removal is a good gain and impressive, And really the amount he probably removed is negligible
Ask Richard Holdener to help you set up running both Brodixheads cause I’m sure he would love to help you out in this one. He seems like a really good guy.
Thank you, thank you. woW oh woW ! ! ! eric did a test of these heads and it is great to see the afr along side the brodix st1 227cc CNC head and the dragonslayer. This has to be one of the most iconic cylinder head flow tests of the internet. Richard holdener and David Vizard ought to have some insight on this also maybe some dynotesting these heads on 383 and 406 plus 420 ci Super magic begins on 420 cubic inch =O=mazing things happen in a small block :o) this is totally the sweet spot for max streetables for me because the cam lifts won't be insane versus springs in a daily driver. 550-600 inch lift for me probably max thank you on the street daily driver pro tourer i would think. Hope i am correct. Just need better than great springs and lighter weight valve train. What would you recommend on a max daily driver/ track car including rocker ratio that holds on to springs for a hydraulic roller like XR300HR10 or even as small as an XR288hr10? i know track car and daily driver are two realms that don't mix and crash like astronomicaL flying blue and red skullz when met, although i believe it is where true street is supposed to exist.
Rough surface ie 60 grit made more power not always more cfm over polished. This was because it promotes swirl and lamanar air flow. Fuel atomized better.A friend who built drag motors and ported for a nascar team years ago did similar tests and then dyno aftwards. He was friends with warren Johnson. I was amazed at the in-depth research they did.
I started out in aviation in the burr shop, picked up very good metal fabrication skills from then on out. I did this to my G 35 heads, using what I call a cobra profile and some Formula One heads that I've seen in the past. Everyone in the G 35 and 350 Z community says that porting your heads is a complete waste of time. They say that only porting the intake Plenum upper and lower is all you should do. I don't know if they have poor quality because of how they did their own, But after I dynode
Dyno’d my VQ35De Revup with plenum, spacers, etc, I had an 11% improvement on others that did not port their heads. I used a 60 grit on the intake in a 120 grit on the exhaust per cinnamon vice from another professional. Originally I was going to polish them but I was worried about poor atomization of the fuel even though I had properly benchmark using flow viz where the air channels were. Keep in mind I’m an amateur I am not a professional in anyway but if someone listens to your advice takes their time and moves methodically and slowly but with high-quality you can have good outcomes. Sorry for the long response but you have really given some solid advice thank you
I'm not a "qualified" aerodynamasist but have been fascinated by aerodynamics all my life with aero modelling.. & to understand that.. an aircraft can be made to not fly with the right (or wrong) placement of a simple length of string.. span wise turbulator.. then to look at your CNC ports with numerous axial ribs that would work exactly as an aerofoil turbulator Influencing vortexes within the port flow.. then it's logical to understand how the CNC rough port at times flows more than the smoothed port.. it's to do with the size of vortexes as they converge into the valve/valve seat Venturi at critical flow rates.. AT THE SEAT Venturi.. harmonics create a hammer effect
Seen on Justin’s channel where he had you look at some old heads that were on his little red vette. How long has that engine been together, seems close to 20 years old. Crazy.
Flow isn't everything, there are two aspects that are more important 1) Ensuring that the petrol vapour stays in suspension because a very smooth port wall will allow the fuel to wet out on the port wall causing poor fuel vapour consistency entering the cylinder. Some surface roughness creates very small areas of turbulence at the port wall to maintain the fuel in suspension. the miniscule loss of flow is more than compensated for by a uniform fine fuel vapour. 2) Having good flow figures on the flow bench does not tell the full picture. It is much better to have high port velocity to ensure the best cylinder filling.
I agree with some aspects. Its not the surface finish that causes fuel fallout. Its a change in velocity caused by turns and other factors that cause fuel fallout. The gain in flow wasn't the surface finish but knocking off sharp edges. It was also significant.
What about a combination of polished, 60 grit, and even dimpled, to prevent petrol vapor suspension? In my case, a 22r (inline 4) with dual plane intake and carb. I am thinking of polishing the “fast” spots, like the short side of turns, and 60-grit everything else. Then, add dimples where the planes channel together, right before it enters the cylinder head to hopefully better atomize the air without slowing it down too much.
this is the cleanup i was talking about on the ports and bowls on my blueprint 190 cc afr knock off heads when i called you on prices. which i believe should help my lower lift #'s more for my torquer 350 vortec hydraulic roller cam engine for my old 84 gmc truck. tks for talking about the ferrea valves i will want those to. when i bring my heads in. i am taking notes so when i bring them in you will have a idea of direction in am headed with my heads.
Those results 100% fall in line with golf ball dinple porting. When you have a rough surface, it gravs air and causes a turbulent pocket of stagnent air. This pocket of stagnant turbulent air displaces moving air making the port smaller. This is the same thing that dimple porting did. In fact it's argued that you can use dimple porting as a way to avoid epoxying the floor if you need to raise it a bit. But that gets into a bunch of unknown variables. Anyways, i kinda expected this. On a GDI engine, i bet you could even get away with polishing the ports (almost to a reflective shine) since the ports dont atomize fuel in a gdi engine, and you'd likely see even more gainz, albeit minimal. So really, you're makijg the port bigger as far as the air is concerned even though you really didnt move any material.
Eric, after watching this video and the one you did on LS heads. I'm curious. Do you think doing this to a 862 head since its a rougher casting than the 706, will bring the 862 to the 706 flow numbers?
Wow! I would expect some serious reshaping to get increases like that! OTOH, my stock 823s with your valve job we’re a bit better…on the intake, anyway. Still, if I had a SBC, I’d be looking hard at these heads!
I believe that some of these tricks that add a very few horseponies is like me picking up pennies Off Wally World ground today. Lot's of wishes but when the thing makes more than they can put to the glue they use on strips now, does it make the difference? I believe it is the skill of the driver plus many hrs. Of work that does so.
Back in the 70's and before. The hype to get better flow was involved in c.c. the heads and port and polish chambers to allow smoother flow of the combination of gas and air mixture to combust better. Well would you just throw mixing of a cake mix directly into the pan. No: Mix, first must be mixed thoroughly prior to cooking, correct?
For direct injection smooth ports are the way to go, the smoother the better. Switch that to a carb and a rougher finish is preferable, any would be power gain in flow are often lost to lack of atomization of fule.
VOLUME AIR FLOW is one thing, great if you've a fuel injected motor BUT, it's not all about getting in more air or fuel !!!.....It's about getting the MIXTURE better vaporised so that it burns better and produces more power.. Why do we dope 2 stroke fuels with IPN ? well it's to increase the flame speed so that the oil that slows the flame speed that is preventing optimum power , can be coated in molecules of ISO PROPYL NITRATE (only a tiny amount is required for a big increase in performance), this increase the flame speed across the fuel oil mixture in the cylinder and helps the combustion burn completley by setting it all on fire faster. thats why twin spark plug heads work better than single spark plugs... 2% mix will give 20% more power in a two stroke engine, then it trades off so don't go running 50% IPN.. been there done that. so why am i talking about two strokes ? well as just explained, by using a chemical in this case to get a more complete and faster combustion you get more power..for the same amount of fuel... so by having a turbulent ( not restricted) airflow, the swirling effect can help mix the droplets of fuel even further than the carburettor has done so far.. way back in the 70's you could buy a disk with cupped fingers pointing into the center, to fit on the inlet ports.. the air fuel mixture that passes over the fingers redirects the condensed fuel into the main air flow but more importantly the wet fuel running along the walls of the inlet are also collected on the outer ring and fed down the fingers and remixed with air to produce a better vaporisation of the fuel.... The smaller the droplets of fuel, the faster the flame speed, and more complete the combustion of the fuel.. this applies to 2 stroke and 4 stroke engines alike.. This is why fuel injection workes better than a carburettor..The high pressure used to blast the fuel through the injector causes the fuel to be very finely vaporised into smaller droplets. resulting in a more efficient burn, bigger droplets of fuel take more time to burn and are still being consumed as the exhaust stroke kicks them out !!! I would suggest that the real reason a partial DIMPLING works better than complete dimpling, is that the mixing effect of wet fuel running down the inlets is achieved better with this disturbance area and not enough to start slowing the main air flow. There has been a lot of other methods tested to sucessfully create smaller fuel particles that result in a better combustion producing more power and even less pollution.. Robin XXXX did this and got paid millions for his "invention" to keep quiet about it.. because the car manufacturers didn't want it to replace their investments in catalisers, to get cleaner emissions, and reduce fuel consumption at the same time... Perhaps if you did two areas , one at the start and another further along to create two areas where wet fuel can get thrown into the mix a bit better...This of course won't show an increase by taking flow measurements !!! but in DYNO TESTS that will show more power when the fuel mix is actually finer particles caused by the dimpling.. colin .
Wow, 8 think what 8s happening, is that getting rid of any objects that reduce laminar flow is helping to have more of the port area move. A better valve job would help the low lifts almost to .200.lift. and then obviously port. shape.takes place the shape of the throat will also come into play as the flow of the port takes over.
Same thing with the high flowing Ls heads. You need cnc and the hand work if you want the best. I have been watching Billy the Kid on TSC(youtube). He has been beating every body with his AFR headed S-10 after upgrading old electronics spark wise with a very basic blow through meth carb.
Dang... I should have done some work on my ports when I had my heads off during my build. I didn't do it because I was worried I'd screw it up and make flow worse. Oh well. There's always next build!
Thats really cool. Very good result. A bit funny how you never knew. Makes me curious why the customer ordered it like that? Do you think thered be much difference with a 40-grit finish? For those concerned with wet flow.
@@WeingartnerRacing yeah I can understand that. 😄 I guess in this case it being a casting from a proper cnc’d head might have something to do with it working so well.
Eric, where are you getting your long shank stones????? I've used a set given to me for almost a year now and it's time for new ones. Stones are a necessary step in my opinion.
Though I don’t play with v8s for last 10 years every 4g63 head I touch I at least do this and polish the chambers to help with det. Seems to show nice gains as these heads flow good already.
I have an older set of Brodix Track 1 sbc heads. I think they are 225 or 230cc intakes. What kind of numbers would you expect with a similar cleanup and polish? They are going on a 434 sbc with motown block and 260/264 degree at 050 solid roller cam.
Erica thoroughly enjoyed your video on the dragon slayers I had a set I had done like them myself agenda don't put them on my 421 and I was going to put in my 65 Chevrolet pickup but some crackheads broke in my garage and sold them for scrap aluminum speaking about trucks when you'll carry your truck back to the drag strip would love to see it run again oh by the way PS they stole the transmission and the radio radiator also and a 1,250 dollar converter
Good video and one im glad to see i do just that to any as cast heads that come my way and i figure it would have to help ive smoothed some pretty boogerey stuff. Now you didnt mention the chamber i got some dart 230 sbc heads that had a boogered up chamber and i smoothed that out cause im running nitrous and dont want hot spots wondering if i gain power from it i know its safer. But these questions are just why i watch your channel keep it up i cant wait for you to get a dyno. Things will get real interesting then. Questions will be answered.
@@WeingartnerRacing The PTS as you are probably aware I would believe has the same or similar plenum chamber design as the Sanez. it seems to straighten the air out more efficiently than the superflow 600 or 750. mine I built using 9 motors so has plenty of capacity for head flowing at 28". i noticed a large difference from superflow benches to the PTS. The PTS is a lot more conservative in numbers. it is a little hard trying to flow ported heads and then the customer says "such and such head flows 12 more peak cfm". but the car goes like a raped gorilla. I am sure you will understand. I am currently using a 40" digital manometer. I want to get a 100" unit as well onto the bench. i also have calibration plates from 100 cfm right up to 600cfmin 50cfm increments. Dont get me wrong the superflow benches really were the standard for a long time but I wanted something that was "more realistic" for my own racing. and the more I searched the more I fell in love with the sanez range and the PTS flow bench designs. Have a nice day bud. love the videos, im always learning.
There's more to it than just hitting a CFM number. IMO it's about the CFM ratio to port volume. If two heads hit the same flow but one does it with a smaller port, the smaller port head will make more real world power every time.
@@WeingartnerRacing sure, once flow goes sonic, you can’t speed it up more and larger is the only way to increase flow. Then there’s wet flow vs dry, which is entirely another discussion. Great videos!
Hello Eric, great Chanel, I need to flow some Studebaker 289 heads. Would like to go to a bigger intake valve, stem is .3437 @ 1.6562 Dia. , exhaust is 1.5312 I cleaned up the lip around the valves. Intake valve of a 1.875 will fit.. Any thoughts or input, thanks
Excellent video. I have a Falconer V-12 head going on a Chevy inline 292 with a 6-71, NOS. It's cast aluminum. Would you be willing to port it for me and flow test it if I sent it to you? The only flow numbers I have are 340I and 220E. Thank you for your time.
I have these same exact heads sitting in my garage right now. For $300, I’d send them to you today. My question is, what is the turn around time? I’m planning to start assembling the motor in 2 weeks. These are going on a 4.125 bore Brodix aluminum block
Smokey did a LOT of very odd and interesting things with race cars.....I got to see some of his work first had at the best damned garage in town, in Holly Hill....next to the old Publix......yeah....wow
My dad always talked about porting olds 394 heads, it was before my time, but everyone said that car would move for a big 57 olds! He built the engine lighter pistons, cam, said if you are going to do it right, iron heads, it's going to take you about a week, he said it took him about 2weeks using a cable die grinder powered by a drill, he did about 1 port a day after work, then a couple days matching them up, lapping the valves, matching the intake and exhaust, I remember when I was a kid, he started porting a set of old rams horn manifolds, I kinda laughed asking why you doing that! I was like just put headers on it, I wasn't thinking finding a good affordable header for a 1950 Chevy, with a V8, isn't that easy, especially with the custom x-member he made, the the clutch pedal had to be shortened to even fit the manifold, and steering box spaced out a bit, I could not believe the difference in them when he was done, esp matching them to the heads, it ran very well, 3.73 gears with 4speed, and 355, with 650 Holley, but what really sux, is when it jerks the doors on the 2nd gen Camaro you worked so hard on! But it was 5.0 5speed, it was horrible when he caught 3 got a bit loose, and just left me, if was about 2seconds and I couldn't see his tail lights,. But makes me feel better knowing I built that engine when I was 13!, Ported the iron heads, he had then cut .030" I polished the chambers and cleared the ports and smoothed out the bowls, forged ft pistons, it would not run on 87 octane, too well anymore not under load, and it would run on, he ran 93 in it anyway, it was just his daily terror, I think he just went to work to race stoplights with the younger guys at work, that is the kind of awesome dad and role model I had growing up! He reminded me of Dale Earnhardt, the way he drove through traffic in that truck! We built it together! Id give anything to live those days again! I figured it was 350 HP maybe a bit more, it had a duntov 30/30 solid cam in it, it would see 7k, it was lazy below 2800-3k compared to when it hit 3500-4k it was like a cr 250, hitting it's power band ! For a old Ironhead engine corked by manifolds, but he took enough iron out them I could feel a difference in the weight, I figured they would eventually crack, but for a old truck, it would get down, it weighted about 2600 with me in it, and about 40 lbs of broken aluminum windows and screen frames, we took to the salvage, had it on the scales, 2617 I think, I thought it would been 3k or so empty, but it was just a cab, fenders , hood, a bed, frame, and a 355, not that much sorry to ramble!! Great video, very interesting, I have a set of heads I believe I'm going to give a similar burr finish to, do basically the same thing, maybe give them a quick finishing pass with a rough sanding roll, I started a bit of cleanup under the seats with a 80 grit, just to smooth the transition a bit, and I have a set of Herbert's as cast 210's angle plug on my 385 stroker, I want to take it back apart, check the rod bolts, and head studs, main studs to be sure they are genuine ARP, and I want to check cam to rod and the block clearance, it clears, it was a 363 before, but completely different stuffings crank rods, I went with 5140, crank and rods, I also want to possibly bush the lifter. Bored, and go roller cam, maybe deck the block about . 020", get the pistons out the bore about .015out the hole, being the MLS gasket is thicker than I was hoping, maybe I can snug the bed down , put clay on top of the piston, and use some 1/2" dowel rods and rock the piston at TDC, to see what's up with clearance!! Before decking, it would be awesome if you could get by with the about .010"-.020" quench, it must have been zero deck with the last build, but now everything, I bought it from dirt trackers who could not go over.030" bore. The valley has been polished, oil drains being opened up , its just needs a coat of Glyptal, sorry to ramble somnia blabbing ,,
@@WeingartnerRacing looks like I should have polished my vortec heads,, it will be interesting if you keep doing this test, maybe the large size of your heads are showing the result
I once used a sand blaster with a one inch nozzle, powered by a compressor the size of a car and using beach sand, to strip the paint off a bus. It had so much power that I bet if you just shoved that thing into the intake port for awhile it would smooth the most important areas real fast. 8 hours is a long time. I'd def be trying something like that .
Question.I just purchased A set of AFR 195’s.I seen A video of A guy smoothing out the already ported head’s.He then stated he wasn’t sure if it help with flow A little more.Now I see this video.Hmmmm now I am thinking?
I did the exact same thing on my SBF TW170 heads years ago and flowed them - found a gain of 15-17 cfm on the intakes. Definitely worth doing. Easiest flow you can pick up.
I would really like to know about the secrets of flow swirl as practiced on the aftermarket Boss 429 heads, and used to win in Pro Stock for many years. Swirl obviously works, as modern "Hemi Pro Stock" heads just ain't Hemis. Hemis are about cross-flow and scavenging more than thorough and complete mixture burning, it seems, which is why they are popular in the alcohol classes.
I further wonder, given a blank slate, what the valve angle/deck angle would be AND how canted off-coaxial the valves would be compared to the cylinder. Would we see 1.5" of valve lift? 30° of valve angle from coaxial?
I am guessing the ideal is a somewhat difficult thing to achieve, as turning the cam bump into a weirdly-angled side-angle valve travel must be quite challenging.
@@exploranatorport bias helps impart swirl….
Those heads are amazing 😎
listen to David Vizard (I listen on 2x… he speaks too slow for me 😅)
Happy grinding 😎
Great video. I once removed a pair of cylinder heads, just cleaned the ports with abrasive rolls and that’s all I’d did. The difference I felt in acceleration was actually astonishing.
Your video is full of hidden and interesting tricks that only experienced builders can se. In this case I can see it and it is about laminated flowing gas and It would be interesting to see a dyno run with a set of heads not modified verses s a set that are downsized and grinded with 60 grit and flow-matched to the unmodified ones. Great video !!!
Well, that’s HUGE gains from smoothing up a port but you have so much experience in porting that you know where to concentrate when you do the rough grinding to get the best shape around in the bowl area. A typical person with 0 experience may not know where to concentrate on UNLESS they go back and check out some of your older videos (which would be smart). Thanks for showing the process and gains. I agree this is the best bang for your money.
I have 0 experience and been alsays smoothing the ports and polish them to mirror. 😁 Then after years and 1000 hours of hard work they told me that for a better flow the walls has to be rough to increase turbolence. Still do not know to this days what polished vs rough do in performance, but I keep doing it 😂
@@robertking1032 i was taught rough intake smooth exhaust.
@@adzz8012 yup, I heard that too, polished exhaust conducts will help avoid carbon to build up...kinda..
@Robert King holy smokes, one could write War and Peace about this, but in essence you need to separate power and flow in your head and think of them as individual properties.
"a better flow the walls has to be rough" - this is not true. Two statements:
1. for an engine running CARBS - make the runners 'rough' (a relative term here) to about an 80-120 grit finish
2. For an engine with INJECTORS make the runners as smooth and polished as you can.
Let me see if I can keep this simple: in a carburatted engine, the runners are flowing air + fuel. It is important to keep the fuel in suspension in the air. The slight turbulence at the boundary (against the walls) helps this. HOWEVER, if the runners were smooth, whilst they would flow more on a test bench, fuel would fall out of suspension and so power would be compromised.
In an injected engine where the fuel is being added to air at the back of the valves, there is only air flowing through the runners so flow can be maximised by polishing and the previous paragraph does not apply.
@@CycloneCyd Ah? Uh? Oooo....shit. Thanx Sir. Now this make sanse. 😊
Great video Eric and yes I'd like to see dyno comparisons be very interesting.
I love the analogy and it's so so true anywhere and everywhere. I don't know where I got it from but for as long as I could remember I always wanted to be the best and no matter what I was doing I wanted to do it better than anyone around even the person I was learning from. I always found the hardest working most knowledgeable person and work right next to them. You put the work in then when it's recognized you get the raise or if it's not recognized and you think you're valuable, you go get that raise yourself. It's your responsibility no one else's.
🇺🇸💪🏻👊🏻🤙🏼
Agree.
This is a great video!! This is the kind of things I always wonder about!! I've got my 781's, and have been thinking about smoothing them out like this, but had no idea if it would even be worth the effort. Looks like it might be worth a few hours of work to me!! Thanks for sharing this, great stuff!!
I'd say I've seen results on anything from a moped to a big block.
You can always find something to clean up.
Depending on "how bad" it is to begin with is proportional to the gains you'll see.
Really glad to see this, I've been wondering what just smoothing them out would do, if anything. Hope you get the chance to do a different set and see if a similar change happens.
Great video Eric! I can imagine this would greatly improve even a set of stock cast iron heads as well.
Yeah that’s a really impressive gains especially since you didn’t make the port any larger
It just increased the efficiency so that should work damn good!! Awesome content sir!
It would still be "larger" by the depth of the roughness and a single pass of 60 grit.
@@peterdarr383 well sure of course especially since he used the carbide burr to take out any irregularities but the amount he gained for the minor amount of material removal is a good gain and impressive, And really the amount he probably removed is negligible
Man great content eric.if the old man's garage says you're great help.and great love and respect for RACEING and build.
All about the boundary condition and the dynamics CSA of the port. 👌
Ask Richard Holdener to help you set up running both Brodixheads cause I’m sure he would love to help you out in this one. He seems like a really good guy.
Thank you, thank you. woW oh woW ! ! ! eric did a test of these heads and it is great to see the afr along side the brodix st1 227cc CNC head and the dragonslayer.
This has to be one of the most iconic cylinder head flow tests of the internet.
Richard holdener and David Vizard ought to have some insight on this also maybe some dynotesting these heads on 383 and 406 plus 420 ci
Super magic begins on 420 cubic inch =O=mazing things happen in a small block :o) this is totally the sweet spot for max streetables for me because the cam lifts won't be insane versus springs in a daily driver. 550-600 inch lift for me probably max thank you on the street daily driver pro tourer i would think. Hope i am correct. Just need better than great springs and lighter weight valve train. What would you recommend on a max daily driver/ track car including rocker ratio that holds on to springs for a hydraulic roller like XR300HR10 or even as small as an XR288hr10? i know track car and daily driver are two realms that don't mix and crash like astronomicaL flying blue and red skullz when met, although i believe it is where true street is supposed to exist.
Rough surface ie 60 grit made more power not always more cfm over polished. This was because it promotes swirl and lamanar air flow. Fuel atomized better.A friend who built drag motors and ported for a nascar team years ago did similar tests and then dyno aftwards. He was friends with warren Johnson. I was amazed at the in-depth research they did.
spot on wet flow verses dry flow
The blue cartridge rolls are Zirconia. and they are awesome. last several times longer than standard Alum oxide.
Awesome video Eric, truly shocking and super valuable info... Thank you.🍻
Unbelievable! I wish I had done this on my PRC 225 heads for my LS6!
I started out in aviation in the burr shop, picked up very good metal fabrication skills from then on out. I did this to my G 35 heads, using what I call a cobra profile and some Formula One heads that I've seen in the past. Everyone in the G 35 and 350 Z community says that porting your heads is a complete waste of time. They say that only porting the intake Plenum upper and lower is all you should do. I don't know if they have poor quality because of how they did their own, But after I dynode
Dyno’d my VQ35De Revup with plenum, spacers, etc, I had an 11% improvement on others that did not port their heads. I used a 60 grit on the intake in a 120 grit on the exhaust per cinnamon vice from another professional. Originally I was going to polish them but I was worried about poor atomization of the fuel even though I had properly benchmark using flow viz where the air channels were. Keep in mind I’m an amateur I am not a professional in anyway but if someone listens to your advice takes their time and moves methodically and slowly but with high-quality you can have good outcomes. Sorry for the long response but you have really given some solid advice thank you
I'm not a "qualified" aerodynamasist but have been fascinated by aerodynamics all my life with aero modelling.. & to understand that.. an aircraft can be made to not fly with the right (or wrong) placement of a simple length of string.. span wise turbulator.. then to look at your CNC ports with numerous axial ribs that would work exactly as an aerofoil turbulator Influencing vortexes within the port flow.. then it's logical to understand how the CNC rough port at times flows more than the smoothed port.. it's to do with the size of vortexes as they converge into the valve/valve seat Venturi at critical flow rates.. AT THE SEAT Venturi.. harmonics create a hammer effect
Seen on Justin’s channel where he had you look at some old heads that were on his little red vette. How long has that engine been together, seems close to 20 years old. Crazy.
Attention to detail pays off. Thanks
Thanks for watching.
It would be interesting to see what flow numbers change with your rough in porting and then polished.
Flow isn't everything, there are two aspects that are more important 1) Ensuring that the petrol vapour stays in suspension because a very smooth port wall will allow the fuel to wet out on the port wall causing poor fuel vapour consistency entering the cylinder. Some surface roughness creates very small areas of turbulence at the port wall to maintain the fuel in suspension. the miniscule loss of flow is more than compensated for by a uniform fine fuel vapour. 2) Having good flow figures on the flow bench does not tell the full picture. It is much better to have high port velocity to ensure the best cylinder filling.
I agree with some aspects. Its not the surface finish that causes fuel fallout. Its a change in velocity caused by turns and other factors that cause fuel fallout. The gain in flow wasn't the surface finish but knocking off sharp edges. It was also significant.
What about a combination of polished, 60 grit, and even dimpled, to prevent petrol vapor suspension? In my case, a 22r (inline 4) with dual plane intake and carb. I am thinking of polishing the “fast” spots, like the short side of turns, and 60-grit everything else. Then, add dimples where the planes channel together, right before it enters the cylinder head to hopefully better atomize the air without slowing it down too much.
Wonder what would happen if you just polished just the short turn after the 60 grit
this is the cleanup i was talking about on the ports and bowls on my blueprint 190 cc afr knock off heads when i called you on prices. which i believe should help my lower lift #'s more for my torquer 350 vortec hydraulic roller cam engine for my old 84 gmc truck. tks for talking about the ferrea valves i will want those to. when i bring my heads in. i am taking notes so when i bring them in you will have a idea of direction in am headed with my heads.
Those results 100% fall in line with golf ball dinple porting. When you have a rough surface, it gravs air and causes a turbulent pocket of stagnent air. This pocket of stagnant turbulent air displaces moving air making the port smaller. This is the same thing that dimple porting did. In fact it's argued that you can use dimple porting as a way to avoid epoxying the floor if you need to raise it a bit. But that gets into a bunch of unknown variables. Anyways, i kinda expected this. On a GDI engine, i bet you could even get away with polishing the ports (almost to a reflective shine) since the ports dont atomize fuel in a gdi engine, and you'd likely see even more gainz, albeit minimal.
So really, you're makijg the port bigger as far as the air is concerned even though you really didnt move any material.
Eric, after watching this video and the one you did on LS heads. I'm curious. Do you think doing this to a 862 head since its a rougher casting than the 706, will bring the 862 to the 706 flow numbers?
On a EFI head the intake port should be 'rumbled' to prevent a wetted surface from the injector fuel.
Quite the surprise! I was expecting 5 cfm TOPS! I now know to do it.
As a engineer you need a rough surface to create a pocket of air for the fast moving air to move freely with less resistance
Hey, thank you, this was a very interesting and informative episode.
On naturally aspirated engines absolutely, it's well worth doing 👌
Thanx for all the great Vids. Really helped me understand porting.
Thanks.
Eric Cool stuff 😎👌thanks
Wow! I would expect some serious reshaping to get increases like that! OTOH, my stock 823s with your valve job we’re a bit better…on the intake, anyway. Still, if I had a SBC, I’d be looking hard at these heads!
I believe that some of these tricks that add a very few horseponies is like me picking up pennies
Off Wally World ground today. Lot's of wishes but when the thing makes more than they can put to the glue they use on strips now, does it make the difference?
I believe it is the skill of the driver plus many hrs. Of work that does so.
It helps flow but does it help Fuel mixture and puddling I’d like to see dino numbers
Back in the 70's and before. The hype to get better flow was involved in c.c. the heads and port and polish chambers to allow smoother flow of the combination of gas and air mixture to combust better. Well would you just throw mixing of a cake mix directly into the pan. No: Mix, first must be mixed thoroughly prior to cooking, correct?
Very addictive gear head content,, thanks for sharing
2v 4.6L Ford engine, port match the exhaust and clean up the bowls... WOW... huge difference. I am sure that is the basis for their 3V engine.
For direct injection smooth ports are the way to go, the smoother the better. Switch that to a carb and a rougher finish is preferable, any would be power gain in flow are often lost to lack of atomization of fule.
I don't know I have seen some sooty direct injected heads.
Tyvm great info...with fact testing. Loved it
Thanks for watching.
Interesting. Glad the 4 hours I spent doing this wasn't a complete waste.
Nice work my friend!!
VOLUME AIR FLOW is one thing, great if you've a fuel injected motor BUT, it's not all about getting in more air or fuel !!!.....It's about getting the MIXTURE better vaporised so that it burns better and produces more power.. Why do we dope 2 stroke fuels with IPN ? well it's to increase the flame speed so that the oil that slows the flame speed that is preventing optimum power , can be coated in molecules of ISO PROPYL NITRATE (only a tiny amount is required for a big increase in performance), this increase the flame speed across the fuel oil mixture in the cylinder and helps the combustion burn completley by setting it all on fire faster. thats why twin spark plug heads work better than single spark plugs...
2% mix will give 20% more power in a two stroke engine, then it trades off so don't go running 50% IPN.. been there done that. so why am i talking about two strokes ? well as just explained, by using a chemical in this case to get a more complete and faster combustion you get more power..for the same amount of fuel... so by having a turbulent ( not restricted) airflow, the swirling effect can help mix the droplets of fuel even further than the carburettor has done so far.. way back in the 70's you could buy a disk with cupped fingers pointing into the center, to fit on the inlet ports.. the air fuel mixture that passes over the fingers redirects the condensed fuel into the main air flow but more importantly the wet fuel running along the walls of the inlet are also collected on the outer ring and fed down the fingers and remixed with air to produce a better vaporisation of the fuel.... The smaller the droplets of fuel, the faster the flame speed, and more complete the combustion of the fuel.. this applies to 2 stroke and 4 stroke engines alike.. This is why fuel injection workes better than a carburettor..The high pressure used to blast the fuel through the injector causes the fuel to be very finely vaporised into smaller droplets. resulting in a more efficient burn, bigger droplets of fuel take more time to burn and are still being consumed as the exhaust stroke kicks them out !!! I would suggest that the real reason a partial DIMPLING works better than complete dimpling, is that the mixing effect of wet fuel running down the inlets is achieved better with this disturbance area and not enough to start slowing the main air flow. There has been a lot of other methods tested to sucessfully create smaller fuel particles that result in a better combustion producing more power and even less pollution.. Robin XXXX did this and got paid millions for his "invention" to keep quiet about it..
because the car manufacturers didn't want it to replace their investments in catalisers, to get cleaner emissions, and reduce fuel consumption at the same time...
Perhaps if you did two areas , one at the start and another further along to create two areas where wet fuel can get thrown into the mix a bit better...This of course won't show an increase by taking flow measurements !!! but in DYNO TESTS that will show more power when the fuel mix is actually finer particles caused by the dimpling.. colin .
Yes all our ported heads were polish to improve flow ,, You do not want disruption
Wow, 8 think what 8s happening, is that getting rid of any objects that reduce laminar flow is helping to have more of the port area move. A better valve job would help the low lifts almost to .200.lift. and then obviously port. shape.takes place the shape of the throat will also come into play as the flow of the port takes over.
What you think, how this go as wet port? Because since early 90 heard, port has to be rought to atomize fuel etc...
My auto shop teacher did this to his heads in 1985. Some "new" ideas are not so new. 😊
🤔 interesting. Great information once again. Could we see anymore flow with a mirror finish, for a gasoline direct injected engine?
Same thing with the high flowing Ls heads. You need cnc and the hand work if you want the best.
I have been watching Billy the Kid on TSC(youtube). He has been beating every body with his AFR headed S-10 after upgrading old electronics spark wise with a very basic blow through meth carb.
As professional porter ...sometimes you go sit down, start from 0....and then wonder: ????
This is soooo familiar !!!!
Dang... I should have done some work on my ports when I had my heads off during my build. I didn't do it because I was worried I'd screw it up and make flow worse. Oh well. There's always next build!
Thats really cool. Very good result. A bit funny how you never knew.
Makes me curious why the customer ordered it like that?
Do you think thered be much difference with a 40-grit finish? For those concerned with wet flow.
I always thought people that did this were the fluff and buff people. I thought maybe 3cfm gain not 15. If I port a head I go all in usually.
@@WeingartnerRacing yeah I can understand that. 😄
I guess in this case it being a casting from a proper cnc’d head might have something to do with it working so well.
Eric, where are you getting your long shank stones?????
I've used a set given to me for almost a year now and it's time for new ones. Stones are a necessary step in my opinion.
Do I smell a dyno room in the future??? That would be a sure fire way to see what's up!
I think your intake needs to be a bit rougher for laminar flow and exhaust smooth so it doesn’t hold on to carbon
Great video. Have you done Hemi Hellcat heads yet? It would be interesting to see the flow you could get.
But what that work on a Chevy cast iron stock head that could be done at home versus the high-end store-bought aluminum race head
Great video Eric
Really interesting vid, thanks
Great video! And actually, some guys do run 1 inch+ cams, lol Look up 10,000 rpm SBF 1050 hp n/a runs 7s on revan evan
Though I don’t play with v8s for last 10 years every 4g63 head I touch I at least do this and polish the chambers to help with det. Seems to show nice gains as these heads flow good already.
Im glad it worked for you.
I have an older set of Brodix Track 1 sbc heads. I think they are 225 or 230cc intakes. What kind of numbers would you expect with a similar cleanup and polish? They are going on a 434 sbc with motown block and 260/264 degree at 050 solid roller cam.
Before we get too excited, let's see the end results on the dyno?
That is kind of shocking. Good video!
Improves idle and partial throttle response
Nice, ❤ video
Erica thoroughly enjoyed your video on the dragon slayers I had a set I had done like them myself agenda don't put them on my 421 and I was going to put in my 65 Chevrolet pickup but some crackheads broke in my garage and sold them for scrap aluminum speaking about trucks when you'll carry your truck back to the drag strip would love to see it run again oh by the way PS they stole the transmission and the radio radiator also and a 1,250 dollar converter
Great video thanks
Good video and one im glad to see i do just that to any as cast heads that come my way and i figure it would have to help ive smoothed some pretty boogerey stuff. Now you didnt mention the chamber i got some dart 230 sbc heads that had a boogered up chamber and i smoothed that out cause im running nitrous and dont want hot spots wondering if i gain power from it i know its safer. But these questions are just why i watch your channel keep it up i cant wait for you to get a dyno. Things will get real interesting then. Questions will be answered.
It would really only gain if you removed the lip on the valve job if it had one. These had cnc chambers so no need to touch it.
You [R] "The Cylinder Head Whisperer"...
I Like your bench. I built a PTS and love it
Which one. I prefer the Saenz.
@@WeingartnerRacing The PTS as you are probably aware I would believe has the same or similar plenum chamber design as the Sanez. it seems to straighten the air out more efficiently than the superflow 600 or 750. mine I built using 9 motors so has plenty of capacity for head flowing at 28". i noticed a large difference from superflow benches to the PTS. The PTS is a lot more conservative in numbers. it is a little hard trying to flow ported heads and then the customer says "such and such head flows 12 more peak cfm". but the car goes like a raped gorilla. I am sure you will understand. I am currently using a 40" digital manometer. I want to get a 100" unit as well onto the bench. i also have calibration plates from 100 cfm right up to 600cfmin 50cfm increments. Dont get me wrong the superflow benches really were the standard for a long time but I wanted something that was "more realistic" for my own racing. and the more I searched the more I fell in love with the sanez range and the PTS flow bench designs. Have a nice day bud. love the videos, im always learning.
Great video !!!
There's more to it than just hitting a CFM number. IMO it's about the CFM ratio to port volume. If two heads hit the same flow but one does it with a smaller port, the smaller port head will make more real world power every time.
Sort of. Eventually you have the port velocity too fast and it restricts power. Velocity is tied to size and size is tied to cfm in most situations.
@@WeingartnerRacing sure, once flow goes sonic, you can’t speed it up more and larger is the only way to increase flow. Then there’s wet flow vs dry, which is entirely another discussion. Great videos!
Hello Eric, great Chanel, I need to flow some Studebaker 289 heads. Would like to go to a bigger intake valve, stem is .3437 @ 1.6562 Dia. , exhaust is 1.5312 I cleaned up the lip around the valves. Intake valve of a 1.875 will fit.. Any thoughts or input, thanks
Nice work
Excellent video. I have a Falconer V-12 head going on a Chevy inline 292 with a 6-71, NOS. It's cast aluminum. Would you be willing to port it for me and flow test it if I sent it to you? The only flow numbers I have are 340I and 220E. Thank you for your time.
I’ve been laughed at by guys when I say I bowl blend, smooth and port match and that’s it. I’m about 3 months away from doing another set for my boss.
It helps but it still doesn't match a fully ported head.
Quality stuff, subscribed.
Thanks man.
I have these same exact heads sitting in my garage right now. For $300, I’d send them to you today. My question is, what is the turn around time? I’m planning to start assembling the motor in 2 weeks. These are going on a 4.125 bore Brodix aluminum block
About two weeks.
Sir I'm curious on you take on the Brodix 5.0 series 171cc heads with 55cc 2.02 intake and 1.60 exhaust. On a 331 SBF?
What would you recommend for a Gen-6 Big Block. I was really liking the AFR's selection but this has me wondering!
Eric are you going to do a video on porting the Ford CHI Manifold ??????
I will try.
@@WeingartnerRacing Thanks Eric! A Ford CHI Manifold porting Video and the science behind it would be awesome champ!
Smokey Yunick couldn't port heads in a certain class he was racing, so he painted the ports and polished the paint smooth.
Smokey did a LOT of very odd and interesting things with race cars.....I got to see some of his work first had at the best damned garage in town, in Holly Hill....next to the old Publix......yeah....wow
I wonder how much this might help on an OEM iron head... I've got a set of Pontiac 6X4 heads on my bench I've been wanting to do something with.
Those are some big ass ports.
My dad always talked about porting olds 394 heads, it was before my time, but everyone said that car would move for a big 57 olds! He built the engine lighter pistons, cam, said if you are going to do it right, iron heads, it's going to take you about a week, he said it took him about 2weeks using a cable die grinder powered by a drill, he did about 1 port a day after work, then a couple days matching them up, lapping the valves, matching the intake and exhaust,
I remember when I was a kid, he started porting a set of old rams horn manifolds, I kinda laughed asking why you doing that! I was like just put headers on it, I wasn't thinking finding a good affordable header for a 1950 Chevy, with a V8, isn't that easy, especially with the custom x-member he made, the the clutch pedal had to be shortened to even fit the manifold, and steering box spaced out a bit, I could not believe the difference in them when he was done, esp matching them to the heads, it ran very well, 3.73 gears with 4speed, and 355, with 650 Holley, but what really sux, is when it jerks the doors on the 2nd gen Camaro you worked so hard on! But it was 5.0 5speed, it was horrible when he caught 3 got a bit loose, and just left me, if was about 2seconds and I couldn't see his tail lights,. But makes me feel better knowing I built that engine when I was 13!, Ported the iron heads, he had then cut .030" I polished the chambers and cleared the ports and smoothed out the bowls, forged ft pistons, it would not run on 87 octane, too well anymore not under load, and it would run on, he ran 93 in it anyway, it was just his daily terror, I think he just went to work to race stoplights with the younger guys at work, that is the kind of awesome dad and role model I had growing up! He reminded me of Dale Earnhardt, the way he drove through traffic in that truck! We built it together! Id give anything to live those days again! I figured it was 350 HP maybe a bit more, it had a duntov 30/30 solid cam in it, it would see 7k, it was lazy below 2800-3k compared to when it hit 3500-4k it was like a cr 250, hitting it's power band ! For a old Ironhead engine corked by manifolds, but he took enough iron out them I could feel a difference in the weight, I figured they would eventually crack, but for a old truck, it would get down, it weighted about 2600 with me in it, and about 40 lbs of broken aluminum windows and screen frames, we took to the salvage, had it on the scales, 2617 I think, I thought it would been 3k or so empty, but it was just a cab, fenders , hood, a bed, frame, and a 355, not that much sorry to ramble!! Great video, very interesting, I have a set of heads I believe I'm going to give a similar burr finish to, do basically the same thing, maybe give them a quick finishing pass with a rough sanding roll, I started a bit of cleanup under the seats with a 80 grit, just to smooth the transition a bit, and I have a set of Herbert's as cast 210's angle plug on my 385 stroker, I want to take it back apart, check the rod bolts, and head studs, main studs to be sure they are genuine ARP, and I want to check cam to rod and the block clearance, it clears, it was a 363 before, but completely different stuffings crank rods, I went with 5140, crank and rods, I also want to possibly bush the lifter. Bored, and go roller cam, maybe deck the block about . 020", get the pistons out the bore about .015out the hole, being the MLS gasket is thicker than I was hoping, maybe I can snug the bed down , put clay on top of the piston, and use some 1/2" dowel rods and rock the piston at TDC, to see what's up with clearance!! Before decking, it would be awesome if you could get by with the about .010"-.020" quench, it must have been zero deck with the last build, but now everything, I bought it from dirt trackers who could not go over.030" bore. The valley has been polished, oil drains being opened up , its just needs a coat of Glyptal, sorry to ramble somnia blabbing ,,
I'm surprised how little you charge - I would have expected 9 hours of skilled work to cost significantly more than $300.
Id like to see if that makes any difference on a stock ls3 head and with your valve job .
That's all part of your Porting, yes
back cut valves has to be doing this.
I used the same valve before and after.
@@WeingartnerRacing looks like I should have polished my vortec heads,, it will be interesting if you keep doing this test, maybe the large size of your heads are showing the result
I once used a sand blaster with a one inch nozzle, powered by a compressor the size of a car and using beach sand, to strip the paint off a bus.
It had so much power that I bet if you just shoved that thing into the intake port for awhile it would smooth the most important areas real fast.
8 hours is a long time. I'd def be trying something like that .
I have thought the exact same thing, as long as yo keep te seats and guides safe from the sand it would be super smooth.
Sounds like extrude porting, great idea and really popular for long runner intakes that are damn near impossible to do any other way
If you want to get even more flow, carve a fish scale pattern on the inside of the ports.
maybe.
sorry fer silly questions were or are these heads gasket matched or does that mtter in this test or would gasket match only show up on dyno thanks
Sir, what bargain head, cast in the USA if possible, would you recommend to replace the 2X hump cast iron heads on my 307 SBC? Thank You.
But what happens to the fuel vaporization with the different surfaces?
Question.I just purchased A set of AFR 195’s.I seen A video of A guy smoothing out the already ported head’s.He then stated he wasn’t sure if it help with flow A little more.Now I see this video.Hmmmm now I am thinking?
Watch the smoothing out cnc lines video. It lost flow doing that.