Absolutely.... Even most well informed (Car folks) , don't know how much influence, hands on, He had on So many different Makes and Models.. cheers from Southern California 🇺🇸
I worked for the Lincoln Mercury Division of Ford Motor Co. when Merkurs were sold in the US. I ran competitive ride and drive events for both cars, track events for the XR4Ti and a Merkur owner's club. The XR4Ti (especially the manual transmission version which had a more potent engine) was a superb European sports coupe which outperformed all its contemporary European rivals. The Scorpio was an excellent European luxury/sports sedan with road manners equal to its contemporary Mercedes, BMW and Audi rivals. I had many Merkurs as company cars and enjoyed all of them tremendously. Both models were rock solid and incredibly composed at triple digit speeds. The failure of the Merkur line in the U.S. was due to resistance by the LM dealers. They were way too content to sell Lincoln Town Cars and Mercury Grand Marquis to repeat buyers who would often buy a new one without even taking a test drive. Selling Merkurs to a completely different, far more discriminating buyer took effort and time, and the dealers were not interested.
Let’s face it, most car dealers suck at selling any enthusiast vehicle. When I bought my 2000 SVT Lightning I knew way more about the truck than the salesman.
I always knew they were costly but I didn't realize JUST how much 15-16k was then. Yikes. They're really nice cars only hobbled by some questionable decisions (weirdly compromised suspension choices). But for the money... oof. And yes, the dealers had zero clue what to do with the thing. At least I got to rescue a Merkur sign from one.
For decades, Ford watched successes from Europe and Japan, on the streets of the USA, eat Ford's Lunch. Inexplicably -> 15:53 Ford (and GM) have still not "cracked the code" to take that lucrative market back. In fact, the Car division at Ford (except for the Mustang) is gone now... let that sink in.
Hey Adam, I quite enjoyed this one. I loved it when Bob was telling us how Corporate dumped the blame on him for the failure of the brand. This just demonstrates how the higher ups have these convenient memories. Cheers!
It’s a shame Mr Lutz was born in Switzerland. Intellectually sharp, good business sense, able to navigate bureaucracy, and at 92 he is about old enough to run for President in the US.
The comments on the Merkur being in Lincoln-Mercury dealerships and Mr. Lutz trying to buy a Corvair remind me so much of the Buell/Harley Davidson experience. Most Harley dealers didn’t have a clue or much interest in selling Buells which was a huge hindrance to the brand.
YUP funny I was thinking the same thing! I've never owned a Harley-Davidson but know a few people who did and have been to a dealer or two and the impression I got was the dealers or at least the ones near me HATED the Buells and had absolutely no interest in selling them. Shame because they were interesting and capable if quirky sportbikes and I think they could've survived if given the support they deserved. Eric Buell deserved better for his efforts. As for Merkur I remember them well, was a college student at the time and in one of my computer science classes we looked at a piece of software put out (on 5 1/4" floppy of course this being 1986) by Ford trying to market the Merkurs, probably one of the earliest examples of marketing via computer. Never had too much interest in the XR4ti or the Sierra though one would be welcome in my driveway. :) But I suspect these had a big influence on the Ford Mustang SVO of this same time frame with its similar looks from its front snout to the dual plane rear spoiler that looked like it came right off the XR4ti. I came close to buying one and though yeah by today's standards it isn't a whole lot of car I'd still love to own one maybe more than any other Mustang!
@@hughjass1044 I don't know directly any mistruths that Bob has told, but his stories always have an 'everyone else in the industry is an idiot' factor that makes me wonder.
@@warphammer I don't get that vibe from him but if you do, OK. I won't say that you're wrong to feel that way necessarily but the one thing I will say is that it's not uncommon for high achievement people, especially in their advanced years when they're reminiscing and recollecting, to exude a bit of braggadocio. And when your background is in a business as highly competitive as his was, it makes it all the more so. I think if you listened to anyone with his background and life experience, it would be much the same.
I wrote a Merkur Scorpio review for the Milwaukee Sentinel newspaper in 1988. I remember going to the regional press event in suburban Chicago and driving a Scorpio on I-294. It was one of the few cars I tested (working as a freelance auto journalist while in college) that I actually liked and would have considered buying, if I had the money. It was a really nice not too big or too small European size, had adequate power and felt luxurious without being overdone. I thought the hatchback was a neat and functional touch. In my opinion, the Scorpio was the better of the two Merkur models exported to the US. That being said, it was relatively expensive, and I could easily see prospective US buyers say "why should I buy this when a loaded Sable offers me the same for thousands less." At the press luncheon, I met race car driver Jackie Stewart and got an autographed copy of one of his books. The Ford Chicago public relations manager, Mr. Steve Madeline, handled the event. He was an outstanding PR person who was really good at his job.
Not until I seen.. the European Ford .. Race Cars.. always knew it was RWD.. from reading articles etc.. But never understood how great it was as a Race Car . COSWORTH edition... Etc... Besides some, rebadge vehicles, For U S market, I agree most Americans fail to see them for what's being offered, Vauxhall Astra/Saturn Astra, for example... Or how sad it was to witness GM just fail.. the Pontiac GTO/G8 ... Even the Chevy SS... A gift from Holden Monaro/Commodore.. Cheers from Southern California 🇺🇸..
I purchased my brand new 1985 black XR4TI - stunning patterned grey cloth upholstery with a 5 speed, as soon as they became available stateside in 1985. What a joy it was to drive and what a head turner it was back then. I was questioned constantly on it wherever I went. People just loved it. Adam, just another one of many of your fantastic videos. Loved your inclusion of the commercials along with the insightful Bob Lutz interview. Sadly my Merkur was rear- ended and subsequently totaled back in 1989. I still miss it.
What a delight to watch Bob Lutz tell stories. He's such an automotive Legend. Too bad he could't stop the "selling"of Chrysler to Daimler, and the Bad Bob, the Eaton, did it....
Let's not forget that back in the 1970s, Lincoln-Mercury dealerships sold the German built Capri. And there was the Ford Fiesta sold at Ford dealerships from around 1977 to 1980.
@@judgegixxerI owned a ‘79 or ‘80 Fiesta for about a year in the very early’90s. I paid $100 for that car. It was a great little shitbox commuter car. 40 MPG on the highway. It had a noisy front hub bearing and a loose outer tie rod end when I bought it. It also had those things when I sold it to a friend for $100 (with all problems disclosed prior to sale)a year or so later. He kept it for about 6 months & sold it to a man who could break a sledgehammer. That guy killed the little Fiesta.
@@mbd501 Mercury would've been okay. GM would've had a lot to say about 'Sierra' so that was a no go. The reason for "Merkur" was to try to shed the uncoolness of the LM dealers. ...why you do that with just German for Mercury, dunno. See also Geo and Asuna.
The XR4Ti and Scorpio were already very well known to U.S. enthusiasts long before they were imported. The fact is, when they were finally imported to the U.S., they were way late to the party, and U.S. enthusiasts had moved on. Ford did not jump on the opportunity when they had a chance.
This was fairly typical of Ford in those days. They hit some homers with the ‘83 T-Bird/Cougar, ‘86 Taurus/Sable, and the Fox bodied cars (all of them, including the Fairmont/Zephyr. ) Ford management thought they were geniuses. The Merkurs proved them wrong. I worked for a Lincoln/Mercury/Merkur dealership in 1989-90. That dealer sold a brand new ‘88 Scorpio that had been sitting on the lot for nearly two years for less than half of sticker price in early 1990.
My uncle had an 88 Scorpio and it remains, to this day, one of the most comfortable cars I've ever driven or ridden in. The back seat room was simply phenomenal. And those front seats were so comfy. My only gripe at the time was it was underpowered.
What if I told you plans were underway to replace the Ford Cologne 2.9 with the Alfa Busso 3L? But then the Italian gov't balked at Ford buying Alfa and Fiat scooped it up.
I had a new XR4Ti. Worst lemon ever. In the first year, AC plenum developed a leak in midsummer in Dallas. Great fun, as it took four months to replace. The ECM went out repeatedly; I once had to push it off the 75 near downtown, and if you know Dallas, you know the freeway was below ground with practically no shoulder in one section, so THAT was a joy. We switched to Japanese products, which was a big step for a guy from Detroit whose whole family worked for the Big Three, but that's how frustrating the experience was.
I'm German and here, they were called Scorpio as well (only the UK kept the name of the previous model: Granada)...Ford has always been legging behind VW and Opel, due to their effing money pinching policies..."a lot of car for little money" was their motto and it worked somewhat...they had good chassis (tuned by Lotus in the UK) and did offer always a little bit more accessories...but their engines were shyte the transmission always geared to high, thus robbing the engines of even more power and everything would fall apart quite soon after purchase due to the cheap materials and supplier they were using...got me completely out of the brand
My buddy had one of these in high school. I remember him saying how hard parts were to get. Not many were sold and nobody really wanted to deal with them.
Ford seemingly never learned from its Lincoln-Mercury marketing disasters. I remember quite well the inability of a specific L-M dealership in the early 1970's to understand and to market the DeTomaso Pantera which was then and still remains an amazing car to drive. In short the sales staff at that LM dealership where we drove the Pantera in 1972 were essentially ignorant of the attributes of the Pantera, and its staff were equally unaware of the USA origin of the V8, a Cleveland 351. Later at a different LM dealership in the '80"s, I had the desire to test drive and possibly buy an XR4Ti which was a superb vehicle to drive, but the turn off was again the absolute ignorance and equally the indifference of the sales staff toward the XR4Ti. Because of that ignorance, despite enjoying the car, I passed on buying the XR4Ti. I agree with Bob Lutz that LM and its deep, fundamental resistance to selling enthusiast vehicles to enthusiasts was the ultimate "kiss of death" to these fine vehicles. Incidentally, recently I was on a rally held in Colorado and New Mexico where four (4) well loved 50+ year old Panteras participated with amazingly modern, quick performance on the roads chosen for the rally. Ford definitely sadly missed the opportunity for enthusiast marketing and loyalty by using LM dealerships. Incidentally GM /Buick marketing of Opel and the Opel GT (one of which I did own and enjoy) was just as inept, so Ford wasn't alone in its failure to promote one of its European products. BTW, separately, it would be great if Bob Lutz could give his story of how the Opel GT was developed. Cheers.
We had a Merkur Scorpio dark red with black hides and friends had one just like it - they had rented one in Europe earlier and were thrilled to buy one here in California. Very comfortable yet underrated automobiles. Years later Audi is selling a lift back sedan (A7). These and the Cadillac Catera both had similar layout of front longitudinally mounted V-6, fully independent suspension, euro-built and rebadged for this market & poorly accepted.
Thank you Adam. The Taurus and Sable hurt this car too. The Scorpio was sitting sitting in the same showroom as the Mercury Sable. Sable and Scorpio looked similar and Sable it was cheaper. The dealers could not relate nor did they know how to sell a captive import. The other issue as you said was the exchange rate. It is hard to change the minds of the American buyer. The marketing was the issue as well. You and Bob summed it up. A missed opportunity.
The Scorpio was beautiful and unique within its segment. My uncle had one as a service loaner while his XR4ti was having the leather interior replaced under warranty. Even 30+ years later, I'm still awestruck at the silence, comfort, and stability that car had at speed. It really was remarkable! I wish these cars could have been given a proper chance here.
I inherited a 1989 Scorpio in 2000 in a business deal. I had remembered them form the 80's but had never seen one in person until this one fell in my lap. It was, by far, the most glorious car I've ever owned. The leather bolstered seats were fantastic, and I loved the small turning radius. It got totaled in a T-bone hit and run. I searched desperately for a replacement but never could locate another one.
From the point of view of a teenager in the 80s who read every car magazine, I thought the XR4Ti was really cool, especially the early models with the biplane spoilers. The car mags said it was a good driver, but the make & model names were a drag on the brand. (Plus all of the other problems that Bob Lutz talked about.)
Just remembered: One odd thing to cover about the Scorpio was the Guaranteed Resale Program. They indexed the value against.... a Mercedes 190 or a 3-series, or something, and guaranteed you'd get the same depreciation if you traded in at a FLM dealer. This of course ran into the problem of what those dealers had to SELL you in, say, 1993 that would appeal to a German cross-shopper...
I knew a guy who was a big wig with Ford in fleet sales. He got a Merkur Scorpio as a company car and when I saw it I started calling his Scorpio a "German Edsel". He turned beet red and wouldn't let me ride in the car anymore. Bob Lutz is right. Every person I know who owned a Corvair loved their car!
It also didn't help that there was an explosion of new car brands in the U.S. in the mid to late '80s, including super-cheap brands like Hyundai, Yugo, and Daihatsu, captive imports sold as Geo and Eagle, ex-Fiats sold as Bertone and Pininfarina, and premium brands like Acura and Sterling. And some publications got confused and referred to Merkur cars as "Mercury Merkur" or simply as a Mercury.
Absolute amazing content with Mr. Lutz!!! Hopefully as many of these interviews as possible to permanently archive these amazing first person interviews with a legend of the day that was down in the trenches....great information that you'll find no where else...
Ford dumped a significant number of the XR4ti and Scorpio onto Budget back in the day. I specifically remember renting a 1987 XR4ti for a weekend, and in 1989, a Scorpio for a weekend. Just for the hell of it. Both were wonderful cars.
Another awesome vlog! Thanks Adam. I think it was a mistake to bring the XR4Ti and Scorpio to America and the second mistake was to market them under the LM divisions. Ford already had the Thunderbird and Mustang SVO & GT as well as the ASC McClaren convertible, Mercury had the Capri from 1979 to 1986 as well as the Cougar. The Ford Taurus and Mercury Sable twins were much cheaper than the Merkur Scorpio ($15,000 for the Taurus/Sable loaded versus $25,000 for the Merkur loaded). I drove both (XR4Ti & Scorpio) of them when they came out, they were to me just okay vehicles. Maybe Bob Lutz was correct stating that they should have been stand alone dealerships, but I think the new establishment costs would have been huge to do this and maybe the pay back was not there as these imported vehicles were forecasted for typically low volumes in USA.
Ford did the same thing with Pantera and Capri, selling it from Mercury dealers. Same deal low sales and Mercury had no idea what to do with it. Gm did the same with the Opels selling them at Buick dealers. Buick barely tried to sale them and they were very good cars. You think they would have learned.
I always appreciated these cars, but think you're right -- the dealers just did not know how to market them. I'm glad they have a good club of interested folks. And, it's always great to hear Bob Lutz.
My dad bought an xr4ti new from the local Lincoln Mercury dealer, although it was an automatic unfortunately. This was 1985 so it's a bit fuzzy 39 years later but I remember him having the dealer install an intercooler in the car and I think they increased the boost to near manual transmission car levels but I could be imagining that part. He was a really enthusiastic xr guy and when the Scorpio came out, he brought one home to try to convince my mom he should have one. But alas, that plan was stillborn similar to the Scorpio 😅. My dad's Merkur adventure ended at an Audi dealership where he traded his xr for a 1988 Audi 80 quattro that I inherited with 320k as my first car. I've been driving an Audi ever since. I guess the Merkur gets the credit for introducing the fam to European cars? Great video, I'll pass it on to my dad.
Loved my used 2.0 Sierra coupe I drove in the early 90s In Germany. For a young guy it was a pretty decent car, back in the days. Thanks for refreshing good memories.
My dad had an '86 XR4Ti from 86 to 90, then got an '89 Scorpio after a one year lease with under 10k miles. I eventually got the Scorpio and drove it from '96 to '98, until parts became a problem. We had to trade in after waiting for 3 weeks without transportation. It was a super-refined and incredibly comfortable vehicle. Ours was brabazon with tan "leather" - the interior was exactly like the photo at 7:15. Quite a memorable car!
As always incredible that you manage to get those legendary car-guys for interviews. They really add a lot to the understanding and perception of events.
I had a friend who had the XR4ti with the five-speed. He loved the car, and I rode in it quite often. The biggest problem was getting parts, which unfortunately was an often occurrence. He eventually replaced it with a Taurus SHO. As for Bob Lutz, he is a person who knew cars, but worked for companies that didn't know how to market them. They also didn't appreciate his knowledge as well.
I was working as a mechanic at a Lincoln Mercury dealer at the time. When I saw it was turbo-ed Pinto engine, I gulped and was doubtful. That worked well enough and the XR4 would do decent tire spins unlike the town cars I was also working on.. When the Scorpio came out later with the 2.9 anemic V-6(I have a memory of them starting out with the 2.8 clatter box but apparently my memory is faulty), I doubted that too. Both cars seemed to work well enough but they were sorta lame overall...nothing to tell mama about. But, they did work well enough as in not all that much trouble from a mechanic's perspective.
I felt for Bob Lutz when he was telling the story about the Merkur and the failures that went along with it, especially with that ridiculous marketing effort. His idea was good, but the overall execution was terrible. Worst of all, he gets blamed for the failures! There's nothing quite like being placed in a no-win situation and being scapegoated by the powers-that-be when things don't work out. It also goes to show how oftentimes the so-called smartest people in the room really aren't.
Had a friend with a Scorpio and the reclining rear seats. Car was a silent 90 mph cruiser. Merkur was an upmarket vehicle that put many European jobs to shame.
Adam - Great content as always! When I was a kid growing up in the 1980s, my next door neighbor had a Merkur Scorpio...it was the only one in our small South Carolina town. Thanks again!
Having worked at the LM dealership in Florida at the time. Car was not suited to hot weather, Early Scorpios had a major refit campaign. There was no ac off button. It stayed on continually. Car suffered from cracked dash panels, overheating in stop and go traffic and under hood smoke from leaking valve cover gaskets. It was hard on tires with negative camber up front, Xr4ti never had leather seats at the beginning handled well but suffered from fuel gauge issues and cracked dashboards. We replaced quite a few. It still had the type 9 5 speed and the c3 trans. Parts were hard to get at the time from Ford .
The scorpio, was actually named Granada, in the UK , but was a German designed world car , and was made as a scorpio in rest of Europe . They made a Scorpio mk2 , even with a 2.9I 24v 209 ps cosworth engine
This was a wonderful little video, Adam. I fondly remember these Merkur's as a kid, and the Scorpio was one gorgeous and stylish sedan. So great to see you interview our Dad Bob Lutz here, too. ;) JV Johnny
My aunt & granddad bought an XR4Ti for my cousin, the first person in our family to graduate uni. All I remember is thinking the price was outrageous for what it was.
Bob Lutz doesn't give a single fuck. Just like it should be. I love his honesty. He truly is one of us regular folks, he just happened to have a really high profile career.
Is that what it is...i was thinking aston Matin but the the styling was more italian.....even though it made in Switzerland i believe it was penned in italy?
@@michaelorlando6159 At first, I thought Aston, but it was a left-hand drive car, so I figured that it was European, of some sort. I've only see pictures of these once or twice, in my entire life. It looks pretty cool, for sure.
And, finally, one I own. And the Merkur interview with Bob I always wanted! Great. The secondary dealer thing is something I don't think was known before. He's right, it's shockingly smooth for no balance shafts. And he's right with his Corvair story. Same deal. One thing: No XR has an intercooler from the factory. The auto IS slightly detuned, but it was just in the ECU and boost control. The SVO and Thunderbird Turbo Coupe of course had intercoolers.
I wonder how the automatic performed compared to the manual; was the detuning just intended to make the torque curve more compatible with an automatic? I've generally found turbocharged engines annoying to drive with a manual transmission, unless the low gear is really low. The low compression and initial lack of torque makes many of them a chore to drive. One of GM's "switch pitch" converters from the 1960s would have been a good fit for a typical '80s turbocharged engine.
@@pcno2832 It was.... meh, according to what I've heard, with the natural exception of kickdown while the turbo's spooled, which is naturally something else on a car with no blowoff valve stock. According to whate everyone's always said it was to make the C3 autos last - the use of the C3 was another flaw since they were stuck with 3-speeds. The Scropio got the A4LD version, which added an overdrive gear. The boost system in the XR is centered around a 10 PSI wastegate whose vacuum line gets PWM-valved to give you more, in certain conditions. IIRC, in automatics those conditions are very restricted and only go up to 12 or so when they do go, whereas a manual goes to 15 readily. The two drive pretty similar until you're going for boost, though. First gear on a manual XR is pretty low - sometimes described as uselessly low, so that's not much of a concern. It IS pretty laggy, though. If you're not going for power a T028 from a later TC might be a good swap from the default T3. Of course a bit of modern tech in there can help too. The T9 manual is.... also a bit of an issue. They're a bit weak for this application and they shift pretty good, but not the best. They're an old UK Ford 4-speed with a fifth literally tacked on the side. A mechanic I know who'd done rebuilds said he thought the insides looked half English and half German - which tracks - and then the tacked on OD looked more Japanese. The T9 is fine for most people, but when an 80s car maker specifies semi-synth for a manual gearbox you know they were working it a bit harder than was intended. The switch pitch idea makes sense and I've had similar thoughts - to the point of wondering if anyone at Buick ever tried to request a new one for their 80s turbos.
I don't think that the earlier Turbo Coupes had intercoolers, either. My best friend had a 1984 or 85 T-Bird turbo and it rocked. Another friend of mine bought the slightly redesigned T-Bird, with the intercooler, but with an automatic. They kind of mimicked the evolution of the SVO, when the started putting the intercooler in them, in 1986, if I remember correctly. Obviously, the Super Coupe got the supercharger with the intercooler, when it was introduced. .
@@warphammer Ford was always more conservative with their manual transmissions. GM started using the six-speed Tremec's in their V8 Firebirds and Camaros, in 1994 or so, I believe, while Ford still used the T45 in their Mustang GT and Cobras. My 1999 SVT Cobra has a T45 and it is a fine transmission. They put the six speed T56 in the 2000 Cobra R, but stayed with the T45, or the upgraded version of it, in the 2001 SVT Cobra, for some reason. My '03 SVT Cobra has the T56. I've never had a problem with either of them. Anything with an overdrive is a must on the highway, especially on long trips.
In Germany it was relatively succesful (as Ford Scorpio), but not as its Predecessor (Granada), a very traditional notchback sedan. So Ford decided to make a notchback sedan (and a wagon) from the Scorpio and also from the Sierra. Later on, an enlarged Mondeo replaced the Scorpio.
The XR4Ti, as you mentioned, was built by Karmann; specifically their plant in Rheine. Your point still stands, though, as Rheine is even further north than Cologne, no where near Bavaria. 😅 The Scorpio, if I recall, was made at the Ford Cologne plant.
The Scorpio was. The story we were always told was that in addition to the Sierra being a smash hit in Europe, the requisite US changes (we got the Ford Motorsport 'stiffening kit' for free, for example) were just too many to be incorporated into the regular Sierra line. By contrast the Scorpio needed very few changes. Same/similar engine, etc, etc. The nice part is that the XRs from Karmann were in general seen to be a bit better assembled than Cologne Sierras.
@@warphammer because Karmann was a specialist coachbuilder, it’s my understanding that many of their cars were, at least, partially handbuilt, that could explain the perceived better quality. I always thought that the Scirocco I had and the Corrado my brother had (both built at Karmann-Osnabrück) seemed just a bit more solid and better finished than the Volkswagen models coming from Wolfsburg, Emden, etc., but that could’ve just been in our heads, too. 😊 Incidentally, I always thought it was too bad that the XR4Ti didn’t have a Karmann badge.
My good friend’s dad, an engineer at Ford had BOTH the Xr4 (in red, manual) and the Scorpio (in black)! Spent a lot of time riding around in both. As I recall he was always fixing one of the two. Always. The Scorpio was comfortable and quiet and I loved playing with the seat inflator bulb. After about 5-6 years I remember the leather seat stitching coming apart in the Xr4, so quality? Eh…
I bought a dark blue XR4Ti in September of 1985. I was a wonderful vehicle for the 5 years I owned it. I esp enjoyed the hatchback, could easily fit 2 bicycles inside with the back seat folded down. I did a lot of triathlons then. I remember the seats were esp comfortable and the car was fast.
I had a 1988 Scorpio, and it was great. Tight turning radius, especially for the size of the car. Handled well. Excellent leather (still like new 11 years later). Incredible rear seat comfort and leg room -- I sometimes sat back there and had my wife chauffeur me. There were some quality issues, especially the transmision which had to be overhauled at ~70k miles. Paint wasn't the best either. Not much power by today's standard, but was decent for the era.
As a previous (happy) owner of a Vauxhall Carlton (aka Opel Omega) in the UK, I would like to see a video about the Cadillac Catera. I also had a Sierra before the Carlton. As a Citroen enthusiast, the Sierra was much better for me than the Cortina would have been. By the way, before moving to Europe in 1972, my family cars were Oldsmobiles.
It's a shame about the XR4Ti a friend of mine had one and she threw the keys to me and told me to take it for a drive and I drove it for about an hour and honestly I didn't want to give it back, it was a Real Performer I couldn't believe how it set you back in your seat when you stepped on it.
Another thing I’ll say, the XR4Ti is/was damn comfortable to drive. Built relatively well-aside from some of the engine woes. Very comfortable to drive on any length of trip. Not noisy. Easy to drive. Ergonomics very good. Very comfortable seats. Smooth ride.
As a kid in the ‘80s, I felt like I had a pretty good idea of where cars ranked in the marketplace… but Merkur was very confusing to me. I had a relative that had the first-gen Sable and another that had an Escort EXP (2nd gen). So, the Merkur brand just seemed unnecessary (as it didn’t seem like nothing more than a mix of the two aforementioned cars - in my opinion). I remember reading car magazines and thinking to myself, “If I were a grownup, I would just get an Audi, Mercedes, or BMW.” 🤷♂️ Also, “XR4Ti” just seemed like they were trying too hard to sound cool and different.
I think Bob Lutz’s blaming of the ad agency is misplaced. It’s the client’s responsibility to bring a clear vision and be unyielding in executing that vision. As a seasoned marketer, my hunch is Lutz was let down by his lack of supervision, his own team, and their lack of strategy. Strong marketing strategy yields strong ad results… so the problem wasn’t the agency.
Great to see and hear from Bob Lutz on the Merkur mistep. I was a young motor head and college student at the time the XR4Ti was being marketed and frequently walked the Lincoln Mercury dealership lots on Sunday mornings looking at these machines that were, oh so out of reach. Liked the cars then, and I like them now. Unfortunate that the marketing and timing weren't right for these cars on our shores.
Every story of a car being imported by the big US brands, includes some kind of self sabotage. I used to think it was an intentional thing, until I learnt that the big three are equally adept at setting up domestic product to fail too.
It's the saddest of stories, really. The common story of 'the Big 3 didn't see the Japanese coming to take the low end and the Germans taking the high end'. But the Merkur story (among others) illustrates that they could see the looming problems just fine. UNDERSTANDING those problems and implementing a plan to address them... That's different.
I had a white '86 XR4Ti. Such a fun car to drive and just fantastic handling. Matched my friends 318i in every way. I remember driving from Chicago to Elkhart Lake (Road America) after work one night and had a Mustang GT go past me, so I decided to tag along. We were already past Milwaukee, so we opened it up. I was even surprised that I stayed with him to 125mph when I decided it would be better to sleep at the track rather than in a Wisconsin jail. But the car was absolutely fine at that speed.
Another fantastic video. And I could listen to Lutz talk all day. One thing that you talked about that I've never understood. The "in today's money it would cost x". I've done this exercise on many many cars and you brought up one with the Town Car in noting at that in today's money the town car would have cost 70ish K along with the Merkur. It just doesn't add up. Example. 2002 Montero in "today's money" would be 58k, yet a LOADED 2024 Outlander sells for around 43k. Maybe it's buying power? And no way people were paying the equivalent of nearly 60k for a Montero in 2002. Another example. A 1990 BMW 525i base price was 33k which in "today's" money comes to 80k today,,yet in 2024 a 5 series starts at 56k... Just wanted to get your take on, it just never adds up to make sense to me.
I’ve owned 9 manual XR4Tis. One from every year. Only one of them had an intercooler. And that was added by the kid that owned it before me. It came off of a Thunderbird turbo coupe
I loved my Scorpio. I had two one I paid 18000 got scared of the falling value and traded it in. But I missed it so much I bought a second one and loved that one two. The car was a great drivers car the seats were so comfortable I saved the front seats out of a parts car. Those seats are now in my 67 mustang coup and they are really nice, I don't care that they dont belong there. So at least in my case the scorpio lives on in a completely rebuilt mustang coup.
Interesting point about car dealers here...looking back, I wonder how much better then Mark VII LSC could have done (not that it did poorly) sales wise if the dealers understood just how different the car was from anything else Lincoln had done before. Many car dealers in my experience don't understand their cars though. I can give two first hand experiences, one with Lincoln and one with Mercedes. In Spring 1996, my friend Sal's parents bought a new Continental. My friend an I were in our last year of high school together. The car was very well equipped with I think every option, or close to it, including the JBL stereo with the factory CD changer. When you got the disc changer from the factory, the head unit took in the signal the proper direct way and was equipped with built in, clearly marked additional controls for the changer that weren't on the non-CD head units. If the dealer installed the changer, it got fed to the head unit with an FM modulator and had a separate controller. Anyway, the disc changer wasn't working from new. I went to the dealer with my friend, and I sat in the passenger seat of the car while the salesperson got in the driver's seat and was attempting to get the CD to play by tuning in the radio to an FM station. I explained to him how this car has the CD changer going direct, there are buttons right there to control it, etc. and it's broken. The salesperson kept trying to improperly operate it, which of course did nothing. Eventually, I could still almost see thought clouds in his head saying, borrowing from MY COUSIN VINNY "I guess the f***in' thing is broken". They replaced the equipment and it was fine after. Sal liked telling that story to others. Thank you Sal. Even worse in a different way was Mercedes. I still have Mom's (who passed on) 2008 CLK 350 Sport Cabriolet, and will always keep it. The car is a joy to drive. It has almost every option, missing the push button start (which I am glad not to have), the air conditioned seats, and the multicontour driver's seat. The car being the Sport variant is the heart of the story, though it's partially Mercedes own fault too beyond the dealer/salesperson we had, as they called it Sport Appearance Package or something like that. Anyway, the car was on the lot, and someone who had very good taste in specially ordering the car in Majestic Black with a Black roof and two-tone Ash and Black interior with the Black Ash wood, ended up not buying it for whatever reason, and it became ours. The Sport variants have better suspension, brakes, and steering. If you've ever driven a standard 350, there is no comparison in my opinion with the Sport version (the steering isn't even mentioned in the dealer brochure, but they drive quite differently if you've ever driven both. Oddly, the brochure makes it seem like the suspension is the same as the 8 cylinder, but the car definitely rides better than the CLK 500 we had before it, while the 500 handled like it was on rails). The salesperson didn't even know the cars were technically better, and almost disparagingly played down the package the car had as just some extra stuff they put on the car to make it look different! I can imagine that happened a lot, as the Sport version is not common, but it's certainly a better car.
Great video and always great to see more of the interview with Bob Lutz! But the whole time I'm watching this, I was hoping some mention would be made of another car Ford produced in this same time frame that seemed so inspired by the XR4ti with its unique front snout and dual-plane rear spoiler, the Mustang SVO. Dreamed of owning one of those back then and still would love to have one!
Adam, I was a teenager when that car came over and I loved it. I was very familiar with the Sierra in Greece.Problem was it was too expensive here.No one would pay that kind of money for a 4 cylinder 2 door.Same thing happened with the SVO Mustang.That car was a much better all around sports car than the GT.Mike the Greek
Sales Manager at a supplier I worked with at the time managed to scoop up a 5-speed, black on black Scorpio from the Ford management auction in St Louis. Paid a pittance for it because of the colours, the transmission, and the brand was being sunset. He felt like he’d won the lottery.
I remember tearing out photos of cars from the various car mags and taping them to my walls in HS - I definitely had an XR4Ti on my wall back in the day
How could Ford get it so wrong on so many levels wit this? They are supposed to be automotive experts. It just goes to show that highly paid management types are no better then anybody else.
Can't tell you how much the Bob Lutz interviews are appreciated. That guy lived 3 lifetimes already with the stories to match.
Absolutely....
Even most well informed (Car folks) , don't know how much influence, hands on, He had on So many different Makes and Models.. cheers from Southern California 🇺🇸
I worked for the Lincoln Mercury Division of Ford Motor Co. when Merkurs were sold in the US. I ran competitive ride and drive events for both cars, track events for the XR4Ti and a Merkur owner's club. The XR4Ti (especially the manual transmission version which had a more potent engine) was a superb European sports coupe which outperformed all its contemporary European rivals. The Scorpio was an excellent European luxury/sports sedan with road manners equal to its contemporary Mercedes, BMW and Audi rivals. I had many Merkurs as company cars and enjoyed all of them tremendously. Both models were rock solid and incredibly composed at triple digit speeds. The failure of the Merkur line in the U.S. was due to resistance by the LM dealers. They were way too content to sell Lincoln Town Cars and Mercury Grand Marquis to repeat buyers who would often buy a new one without even taking a test drive. Selling Merkurs to a completely different, far more discriminating buyer took effort and time, and the dealers were not interested.
Let’s face it, most car dealers suck at selling any enthusiast vehicle. When I bought my 2000 SVT Lightning I knew way more about the truck than the salesman.
Naw, it was a loser from the get-go. The styling stunk on ice---sorry.
I always knew they were costly but I didn't realize JUST how much 15-16k was then. Yikes.
They're really nice cars only hobbled by some questionable decisions (weirdly compromised suspension choices). But for the money... oof.
And yes, the dealers had zero clue what to do with the thing. At least I got to rescue a Merkur sign from one.
For decades, Ford watched successes from Europe and Japan, on the streets of the USA, eat Ford's Lunch. Inexplicably -> 15:53 Ford (and GM) have still not "cracked the code" to take that lucrative market back. In fact, the Car division at Ford (except for the Mustang) is gone now... let that sink in.
Hey Adam, I quite enjoyed this one. I loved it when Bob was telling us how Corporate dumped the blame on him for the failure of the brand. This just demonstrates how the higher ups have these convenient memories. Cheers!
It’s a shame Mr Lutz was born in Switzerland.
Intellectually sharp, good business sense, able to navigate bureaucracy, and at 92 he is about old enough to run for President in the US.
Too funny. And so true.
He's nowhere near as dumb as the one guy though.
Well after.. Dan Gurney past.. RIP D.G these Dan Gurney for President were awesome..
Bob Lutz for President 🤔...
Work's
Why?
The comments on the Merkur being in Lincoln-Mercury dealerships and Mr. Lutz trying to buy a Corvair remind me so much of the Buell/Harley Davidson experience. Most Harley dealers didn’t have a clue or much interest in selling Buells which was a huge hindrance to the brand.
YUP funny I was thinking the same thing! I've never owned a Harley-Davidson but know a few people who did and have been to a dealer or two and the impression I got was the dealers or at least the ones near me HATED the Buells and had absolutely no interest in selling them. Shame because they were interesting and capable if quirky sportbikes and I think they could've survived if given the support they deserved. Eric Buell deserved better for his efforts. As for Merkur I remember them well, was a college student at the time and in one of my computer science classes we looked at a piece of software put out (on 5 1/4" floppy of course this being 1986) by Ford trying to market the Merkurs, probably one of the earliest examples of marketing via computer. Never had too much interest in the XR4ti or the Sierra though one would be welcome in my driveway. :) But I suspect these had a big influence on the Ford Mustang SVO of this same time frame with its similar looks from its front snout to the dual plane rear spoiler that looked like it came right off the XR4ti. I came close to buying one and though yeah by today's standards it isn't a whole lot of car I'd still love to own one maybe more than any other Mustang!
There have been several videos now with Bob Lutz. He's a great story teller with an amazing memory. Really enjoy listening to guys like him.
Absolutely.
Everytime when he talks, I wish, he'll never stop...
He is a great story teller. He is not a great truth teller.
@@laserwizard2 "Not a great truth teller." Care to elaborate on that?
@@hughjass1044 I don't know directly any mistruths that Bob has told, but his stories always have an 'everyone else in the industry is an idiot' factor that makes me wonder.
@@warphammer I don't get that vibe from him but if you do, OK.
I won't say that you're wrong to feel that way necessarily but the one thing I will say is that it's not uncommon for high achievement people, especially in their advanced years when they're reminiscing and recollecting, to exude a bit of braggadocio.
And when your background is in a business as highly competitive as his was, it makes it all the more so. I think if you listened to anyone with his background and life experience, it would be much the same.
I wrote a Merkur Scorpio review for the Milwaukee Sentinel newspaper in 1988. I remember going to the regional press event in suburban Chicago and driving a Scorpio on I-294. It was one of the few cars I tested (working as a freelance auto journalist while in college) that I actually liked and would have considered buying, if I had the money. It was a really nice not too big or too small European size, had adequate power and felt luxurious without being overdone. I thought the hatchback was a neat and functional touch. In my opinion, the Scorpio was the better of the two Merkur models exported to the US. That being said, it was relatively expensive, and I could easily see prospective US buyers say "why should I buy this when a loaded Sable offers me the same for thousands less."
At the press luncheon, I met race car driver Jackie Stewart and got an autographed copy of one of his books. The Ford Chicago public relations manager, Mr. Steve Madeline, handled the event. He was an outstanding PR person who was really good at his job.
The Scorpio had leather reclining REAR seats. Very unusual for the North American market in those days.
Not until I seen.. the European Ford .. Race Cars.. always knew it was RWD.. from reading articles etc..
But never understood how great it was as a Race Car . COSWORTH edition...
Etc...
Besides some, rebadge vehicles, For U S market, I agree most Americans fail to see them for what's being offered, Vauxhall Astra/Saturn Astra, for example...
Or how sad it was to witness GM just fail.. the Pontiac GTO/G8 ...
Even the Chevy SS...
A gift from Holden Monaro/Commodore..
Cheers from Southern California 🇺🇸..
Loved Bob Lutz's story on his attempt to buy a Corvair Monza in 1961. He is a treasure, very cool that you got to interview him.
Bob Lutz: “An easy profit maker!”
Ford execs: “We shall call it Merkur.”
Bob Lutz: “🤦♂️”
Merkur could have been a success if they listened to Bob Lutz. I drove an XR4Ti and loved the car.
I purchased my brand new 1985 black XR4TI - stunning patterned grey cloth upholstery with a 5 speed, as soon as they became available stateside in 1985. What a joy it was to drive and what a head turner it was back then. I was questioned constantly on it wherever I went. People just loved it.
Adam, just another one of many of your fantastic videos. Loved your inclusion of the commercials along with the insightful Bob Lutz interview.
Sadly my Merkur was rear- ended and subsequently totaled back in 1989. I still miss it.
What a delight to watch Bob Lutz tell stories. He's such an automotive Legend. Too bad he could't stop the "selling"of Chrysler to Daimler, and the Bad Bob, the Eaton, did it....
Chrysler had already been in the crapper for quite some time by then. The last time Chrysler made a good car, I hadn't been born yet.
That segment with Bob Lutz is pure gold .👌
I miss the 80s. One of my uncles had a Scorpio and he absolutely loved that car.
In 1987, had a friend who was a sales rep at an Atlanta L-M dealer, and he let me drive an XR4Ti with 5 speed...what a blast to drive.
Let's not forget that back in the 1970s, Lincoln-Mercury dealerships sold the German built Capri. And there was the Ford Fiesta sold at Ford dealerships from around 1977 to 1980.
My dad had a Fiesta with that little kent motor.. Super sporty but kind of gurless.
I'm sure they were thinking of the Capri. And of the De Tomaso cars, which were sold through select LM dealers.
@@judgegixxerI owned a ‘79 or ‘80 Fiesta for about a year in the very early’90s. I paid $100 for that car. It was a great little shitbox commuter car. 40 MPG on the highway. It had a noisy front hub bearing and a loose outer tie rod end when I bought it. It also had those things when I sold it to a friend for $100 (with all problems disclosed prior to sale)a year or so later. He kept it for about 6 months & sold it to a man who could break a sledgehammer. That guy killed the little Fiesta.
They should've just called this car the Mercury Sierra IMO. That would've been a much better name than Merkur.
@@mbd501 Mercury would've been okay. GM would've had a lot to say about 'Sierra' so that was a no go.
The reason for "Merkur" was to try to shed the uncoolness of the LM dealers. ...why you do that with just German for Mercury, dunno. See also Geo and Asuna.
The XR4Ti and Scorpio were already very well known to U.S. enthusiasts long before they were imported. The fact is, when they were finally imported to the U.S., they were way late to the party, and U.S. enthusiasts had moved on. Ford did not jump on the opportunity when they had a chance.
This was fairly typical of Ford in those days. They hit some homers with the ‘83 T-Bird/Cougar, ‘86 Taurus/Sable, and the Fox bodied cars (all of them, including the Fairmont/Zephyr. ) Ford management thought they were geniuses. The Merkurs proved them wrong. I worked for a Lincoln/Mercury/Merkur dealership in 1989-90. That dealer sold a brand new ‘88 Scorpio that had been sitting on the lot for nearly two years for less than half of sticker price in early 1990.
@@alantrimble2881 Hubris (..Ford management thought they were geniuses..) is a common pitfall with U.S. carmakers.
My uncle had an 88 Scorpio and it remains, to this day, one of the most comfortable cars I've ever driven or ridden in. The back seat room was simply phenomenal. And those front seats were so comfy. My only gripe at the time was it was underpowered.
What if I told you plans were underway to replace the Ford Cologne 2.9 with the Alfa Busso 3L? But then the Italian gov't balked at Ford buying Alfa and Fiat scooped it up.
We had several Ford "land yachts" over the years but my dad's last car was a Scorpio, He LOVED that car. Happy Fathers Day, dad.
My brother had a Scorpio - he drove halfway across Canada to buy it, and brought it back to NJ. It was a bit quirky, but he loved it.
I had a new XR4Ti. Worst lemon ever. In the first year, AC plenum developed a leak in midsummer in Dallas. Great fun, as it took four months to replace. The ECM went out repeatedly; I once had to push it off the 75 near downtown, and if you know Dallas, you know the freeway was below ground with practically no shoulder in one section, so THAT was a joy. We switched to Japanese products, which was a big step for a guy from Detroit whose whole family worked for the Big Three, but that's how frustrating the experience was.
Jim Rome has an epic XR4Ti rant.
I'm German and here, they were called Scorpio as well (only the UK kept the name of the previous model: Granada)...Ford has always been legging behind VW and Opel, due to their effing money pinching policies..."a lot of car for little money" was their motto and it worked somewhat...they had good chassis (tuned by Lotus in the UK) and did offer always a little bit more accessories...but their engines were shyte the transmission always geared to high, thus robbing the engines of even more power and everything would fall apart quite soon after purchase due to the cheap materials and supplier they were using...got me completely out of the brand
My buddy had one of these in high school. I remember him saying how hard parts were to get. Not many were sold and nobody really wanted to deal with them.
Adam it's great you sprinkle in cars of the 80s. Keep the classics coming . Love the ballance. Thanks for your insight and hard work.
Ford seemingly never learned from its Lincoln-Mercury marketing disasters. I remember quite well the inability of a specific L-M dealership in the early 1970's to understand and to market the DeTomaso Pantera which was then and still remains an amazing car to drive. In short the sales staff at that LM dealership where we drove the Pantera in 1972 were essentially ignorant of the attributes of the Pantera, and its staff were equally unaware of the USA origin of the V8, a Cleveland 351. Later at a different LM dealership in the '80"s, I had the desire to test drive and possibly buy an XR4Ti which was a superb vehicle to drive, but the turn off was again the absolute ignorance and equally the indifference of the sales staff toward the XR4Ti. Because of that ignorance, despite enjoying the car, I passed on buying the XR4Ti. I agree with Bob Lutz that LM and its deep, fundamental resistance to selling enthusiast vehicles to enthusiasts was the ultimate "kiss of death" to these fine vehicles. Incidentally, recently I was on a rally held in Colorado and New Mexico where four (4) well loved 50+ year old Panteras participated with amazingly modern, quick performance on the roads chosen for the rally. Ford definitely sadly missed the opportunity for enthusiast marketing and loyalty by using LM dealerships. Incidentally GM /Buick marketing of Opel and the Opel GT (one of which I did own and enjoy) was just as inept, so Ford wasn't alone in its failure to promote one of its European products. BTW, separately, it would be great if Bob Lutz could give his story of how the Opel GT was developed. Cheers.
I loved the Merkur XR4Ti..! I wanted one, but rolled a custom 88’ EXP HO model and a Buick Riviera.
We had a Merkur Scorpio dark red with black hides and friends had one just like it - they had rented one in Europe earlier and were thrilled to buy one here in California. Very comfortable yet underrated automobiles.
Years later Audi is selling a lift back sedan (A7). These and the Cadillac Catera both had similar layout of front longitudinally mounted V-6, fully independent suspension, euro-built and rebadged for this market & poorly accepted.
Thank you Adam. The Taurus and Sable hurt this car too. The Scorpio was sitting sitting in the same showroom as the Mercury Sable. Sable and Scorpio looked similar and Sable it was cheaper. The dealers could not relate nor did they know how to sell a captive import. The other issue as you said was the exchange rate. It is hard to change the minds of the American buyer. The marketing was the issue as well. You and Bob summed it up. A missed opportunity.
The Scorpio was beautiful and unique within its segment. My uncle had one as a service loaner while his XR4ti was having the leather interior replaced under warranty. Even 30+ years later, I'm still awestruck at the silence, comfort, and stability that car had at speed. It really was remarkable! I wish these cars could have been given a proper chance here.
I inherited a 1989 Scorpio in 2000 in a business deal. I had remembered them form the 80's but had never seen one in person until this one fell in my lap. It was, by far, the most glorious car I've ever owned. The leather bolstered seats were fantastic, and I loved the small turning radius. It got totaled in a T-bone hit and run. I searched desperately for a replacement but never could locate another one.
I had both of there cars. I really loved them.
From the point of view of a teenager in the 80s who read every car magazine, I thought the XR4Ti was really cool, especially the early models with the biplane spoilers. The car mags said it was a good driver, but the make & model names were a drag on the brand. (Plus all of the other problems that Bob Lutz talked about.)
Just remembered: One odd thing to cover about the Scorpio was the Guaranteed Resale Program. They indexed the value against.... a Mercedes 190 or a 3-series, or something, and guaranteed you'd get the same depreciation if you traded in at a FLM dealer. This of course ran into the problem of what those dealers had to SELL you in, say, 1993 that would appeal to a German cross-shopper...
I knew a guy who was a big wig with Ford in fleet sales. He got a Merkur Scorpio as a company car and when I saw it I started calling his Scorpio a "German Edsel". He turned beet red and wouldn't let me ride in the car anymore.
Bob Lutz is right. Every person I know who owned a Corvair loved their car!
It also didn't help that there was an explosion of new car brands in the U.S. in the mid to late '80s, including super-cheap brands like Hyundai, Yugo, and Daihatsu, captive imports sold as Geo and Eagle, ex-Fiats sold as Bertone and Pininfarina, and premium brands like Acura and Sterling. And some publications got confused and referred to Merkur cars as "Mercury Merkur" or simply as a Mercury.
Absolute amazing content with Mr. Lutz!!! Hopefully as many of these interviews as possible to permanently archive these amazing first person interviews with a legend of the day that was down in the trenches....great information that you'll find no where else...
Ford dumped a significant number of the XR4ti and Scorpio onto Budget back in the day. I specifically remember renting a 1987 XR4ti for a weekend, and in 1989, a Scorpio for a weekend. Just for the hell of it. Both were wonderful cars.
Another awesome vlog! Thanks Adam. I think it was a mistake to bring the XR4Ti and Scorpio to America and the second mistake was to market them under the LM divisions. Ford already had the Thunderbird and Mustang SVO & GT as well as the ASC McClaren convertible, Mercury had the Capri from 1979 to 1986 as well as the Cougar. The Ford Taurus and Mercury Sable twins were much cheaper than the Merkur Scorpio ($15,000 for the Taurus/Sable loaded versus $25,000 for the Merkur loaded). I drove both (XR4Ti & Scorpio) of them when they came out, they were to me just okay vehicles. Maybe Bob Lutz was correct stating that they should have been stand alone dealerships, but I think the new establishment costs would have been huge to do this and maybe the pay back was not there as these imported vehicles were forecasted for typically low volumes in USA.
Ford did the same thing with Pantera and Capri, selling it from Mercury dealers. Same deal low sales and Mercury had no idea what to do with it. Gm did the same with the Opels selling them at Buick dealers. Buick barely tried to sale them and they were very good cars.
You think they would have learned.
I always appreciated these cars, but think you're right -- the dealers just did not know how to market them. I'm glad they have a good club of interested folks. And, it's always great to hear Bob Lutz.
My dad bought an xr4ti new from the local Lincoln Mercury dealer, although it was an automatic unfortunately. This was 1985 so it's a bit fuzzy 39 years later but I remember him having the dealer install an intercooler in the car and I think they increased the boost to near manual transmission car levels but I could be imagining that part. He was a really enthusiastic xr guy and when the Scorpio came out, he brought one home to try to convince my mom he should have one. But alas, that plan was stillborn similar to the Scorpio 😅. My dad's Merkur adventure ended at an Audi dealership where he traded his xr for a 1988 Audi 80 quattro that I inherited with 320k as my first car. I've been driving an Audi ever since. I guess the Merkur gets the credit for introducing the fam to European cars? Great video, I'll pass it on to my dad.
Loved my used 2.0 Sierra coupe I drove in the early 90s In Germany. For a young guy it was a pretty decent car, back in the days. Thanks for refreshing good memories.
My dad had an '86 XR4Ti from 86 to 90, then got an '89 Scorpio after a one year lease with under 10k miles. I eventually got the Scorpio and drove it from '96 to '98, until parts became a problem. We had to trade in after waiting for 3 weeks without transportation. It was a super-refined and incredibly comfortable vehicle. Ours was brabazon with tan "leather" - the interior was exactly like the photo at 7:15. Quite a memorable car!
As always incredible that you manage to get those legendary car-guys for interviews. They really add a lot to the understanding and perception of events.
I had a friend who had the XR4ti with the five-speed. He loved the car, and I rode in it quite often. The biggest problem was getting parts, which unfortunately was an often occurrence. He eventually replaced it with a Taurus SHO. As for Bob Lutz, he is a person who knew cars, but worked for companies that didn't know how to market them. They also didn't appreciate his knowledge as well.
My wife loved the Merkur. unfortunately our dealer in Peabody, MA, had no idea how to sell them so we eventually bought a Saab.
I was working as a mechanic at a Lincoln Mercury dealer at the time. When I saw it was turbo-ed Pinto engine, I gulped and was doubtful. That worked well enough and the XR4 would do decent tire spins unlike the town cars I was also working on.. When the Scorpio came out later with the 2.9 anemic V-6(I have a memory of them starting out with the 2.8 clatter box but apparently my memory is faulty), I doubted that too. Both cars seemed to work well enough but they were sorta lame overall...nothing to tell mama about. But, they did work well enough as in not all that much trouble from a mechanic's perspective.
Always thought these were pretty snazzy! 😊 Happy father's day
I felt for Bob Lutz when he was telling the story about the Merkur and the failures that went along with it, especially with that ridiculous marketing effort. His idea was good, but the overall execution was terrible. Worst of all, he gets blamed for the failures! There's nothing quite like being placed in a no-win situation and being scapegoated by the powers-that-be when things don't work out. It also goes to show how oftentimes the so-called smartest people in the room really aren't.
Had a friend with a Scorpio and the reclining rear seats. Car was a silent 90 mph cruiser. Merkur was an upmarket vehicle that put many European jobs to shame.
Adam - Great content as always! When I was a kid growing up in the 1980s, my next door neighbor had a Merkur Scorpio...it was the only one in our small South Carolina town. Thanks again!
Ironically at around that same time, our neighbor two doors down had a Buick Reatta. Go figure. LOL
Having worked at the LM dealership in Florida at the time. Car was not suited to hot weather, Early Scorpios had a major refit campaign. There was no ac off button. It stayed on continually. Car suffered from cracked dash panels, overheating in stop and go traffic and under hood smoke from leaking valve cover gaskets. It was hard on tires with negative camber up front, Xr4ti never had leather seats at the beginning handled well but suffered from fuel gauge issues and cracked dashboards. We replaced quite a few. It still had the type 9 5 speed and the c3 trans. Parts were hard to get at the time from Ford .
The scorpio, was actually named Granada, in the UK , but was a German designed world car , and was made as a scorpio in rest of Europe . They made a Scorpio mk2 , even with a 2.9I 24v 209 ps cosworth engine
I was wondering other day, when Adam is going to interview Mr. Lutz jet setting car genius. Thank you
Great video and feature on Bob Lutz!! Good work.
This was a wonderful little video, Adam. I fondly remember these Merkur's as a kid, and the Scorpio was one gorgeous and stylish sedan. So great to see you interview our Dad Bob Lutz here, too. ;) JV Johnny
My aunt & granddad bought an XR4Ti for my cousin, the first person in our family to graduate uni. All I remember is thinking the price was outrageous for what it was.
As always, yet another top notch video. I can also sit and listen to Bob Lutz's car stories all day.
Bob Lutz doesn't give a single fuck. Just like it should be. I love his honesty. He truly is one of us regular folks, he just happened to have a really high profile career.
How your comment made it past the Google censor... True though.
I never liked these, but they always had thier cult following. Some people absolutely love them..
Cool piece of automotive history non the less.
Nice Monteverdi sitting behind you.
Is that what it is...i was thinking aston Matin but the the styling was more italian.....even though it made in Switzerland i believe it was penned in italy?
Monteverdi is a spectacular car!
@@michaelorlando6159 At first, I thought Aston, but it was a left-hand drive car, so I figured that it was European, of some sort. I've only see pictures of these once or twice, in my entire life. It looks pretty cool, for sure.
@@michaelorlando6159 yes it was styled by Fissore, although the prototypes were done by Frua.
And, finally, one I own. And the Merkur interview with Bob I always wanted! Great. The secondary dealer thing is something I don't think was known before. He's right, it's shockingly smooth for no balance shafts. And he's right with his Corvair story. Same deal.
One thing: No XR has an intercooler from the factory. The auto IS slightly detuned, but it was just in the ECU and boost control. The SVO and Thunderbird Turbo Coupe of course had intercoolers.
I wonder how the automatic performed compared to the manual; was the detuning just intended to make the torque curve more compatible with an automatic? I've generally found turbocharged engines annoying to drive with a manual transmission, unless the low gear is really low. The low compression and initial lack of torque makes many of them a chore to drive. One of GM's "switch pitch" converters from the 1960s would have been a good fit for a typical '80s turbocharged engine.
@@pcno2832 It was.... meh, according to what I've heard, with the natural exception of kickdown while the turbo's spooled, which is naturally something else on a car with no blowoff valve stock. According to whate everyone's always said it was to make the C3 autos last - the use of the C3 was another flaw since they were stuck with 3-speeds. The Scropio got the A4LD version, which added an overdrive gear. The boost system in the XR is centered around a 10 PSI wastegate whose vacuum line gets PWM-valved to give you more, in certain conditions. IIRC, in automatics those conditions are very restricted and only go up to 12 or so when they do go, whereas a manual goes to 15 readily. The two drive pretty similar until you're going for boost, though.
First gear on a manual XR is pretty low - sometimes described as uselessly low, so that's not much of a concern. It IS pretty laggy, though. If you're not going for power a T028 from a later TC might be a good swap from the default T3. Of course a bit of modern tech in there can help too.
The T9 manual is.... also a bit of an issue. They're a bit weak for this application and they shift pretty good, but not the best. They're an old UK Ford 4-speed with a fifth literally tacked on the side. A mechanic I know who'd done rebuilds said he thought the insides looked half English and half German - which tracks - and then the tacked on OD looked more Japanese. The T9 is fine for most people, but when an 80s car maker specifies semi-synth for a manual gearbox you know they were working it a bit harder than was intended.
The switch pitch idea makes sense and I've had similar thoughts - to the point of wondering if anyone at Buick ever tried to request a new one for their 80s turbos.
I don't think that the earlier Turbo Coupes had intercoolers, either. My best friend had a 1984 or 85 T-Bird turbo and it rocked. Another friend of mine bought the slightly redesigned T-Bird, with the intercooler, but with an automatic. They kind of mimicked the evolution of the SVO, when the started putting the intercooler in them, in 1986, if I remember correctly. Obviously, the Super Coupe got the supercharger with the intercooler, when it was introduced.
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@@johnandrus3901 You're correct, the TCs with the scoops had it. ...similar on the SVOs.
@@warphammer Ford was always more conservative with their manual transmissions. GM started using the six-speed Tremec's in their V8 Firebirds and Camaros, in 1994 or so, I believe, while Ford still used the T45 in their Mustang GT and Cobras. My 1999 SVT Cobra has a T45 and it is a fine transmission. They put the six speed T56 in the 2000 Cobra R, but stayed with the T45, or the upgraded version of it, in the 2001 SVT Cobra, for some reason. My '03 SVT Cobra has the T56. I've never had a problem with either of them. Anything with an overdrive is a must on the highway, especially on long trips.
My father in law got a Scorpio as a corporate lease...was an awesome vehicle, and I also felt it was underrated at the time.
In Germany it was relatively succesful (as Ford Scorpio), but not as its Predecessor (Granada), a very traditional notchback sedan.
So Ford decided to make a notchback sedan (and a wagon) from the Scorpio and also from the Sierra.
Later on, an enlarged Mondeo replaced the Scorpio.
The XR4Ti, as you mentioned, was built by Karmann; specifically their plant in Rheine. Your point still stands, though, as Rheine is even further north than Cologne, no where near Bavaria. 😅
The Scorpio, if I recall, was made at the Ford Cologne plant.
The Scorpio was.
The story we were always told was that in addition to the Sierra being a smash hit in Europe, the requisite US changes (we got the Ford Motorsport 'stiffening kit' for free, for example) were just too many to be incorporated into the regular Sierra line.
By contrast the Scorpio needed very few changes. Same/similar engine, etc, etc.
The nice part is that the XRs from Karmann were in general seen to be a bit better assembled than Cologne Sierras.
@@warphammer because Karmann was a specialist coachbuilder, it’s my understanding that many of their cars were, at least, partially handbuilt, that could explain the perceived better quality.
I always thought that the Scirocco I had and the Corrado my brother had (both built at Karmann-Osnabrück) seemed just a bit more solid and better finished than the Volkswagen models coming from Wolfsburg, Emden, etc., but that could’ve just been in our heads, too. 😊
Incidentally, I always thought it was too bad that the XR4Ti didn’t have a Karmann badge.
My good friend’s dad, an engineer at Ford had BOTH the Xr4 (in red, manual) and the Scorpio (in black)! Spent a lot of time riding around in both. As I recall he was always fixing one of the two. Always. The Scorpio was comfortable and quiet and I loved playing with the seat inflator bulb. After about 5-6 years I remember the leather seat stitching coming apart in the Xr4, so quality? Eh…
Love the interview with Bob Lutz
It was great to watch someone enjoying a Cigar while having a conversation! I'm going to go out and get one in the next week or two. Great Video!
So cool to hear Bob Lutz talk about the Merkurs! Great video!
I loved the Merkur XR4Ti as a teenager.
I bought a dark blue XR4Ti in September of 1985. I was a wonderful vehicle for the 5 years I owned it. I esp enjoyed the hatchback, could easily fit 2 bicycles inside with the back seat folded down. I did a lot of triathlons then. I remember the seats were esp comfortable and the car was fast.
My 1980 Thunderbird had the Squeeze Ball bladder seats beautiful Car
I had a 1988 Scorpio, and it was great. Tight turning radius, especially for the size of the car. Handled well. Excellent leather (still like new 11 years later). Incredible rear seat comfort and leg room -- I sometimes sat back there and had my wife chauffeur me. There were some quality issues, especially the transmision which had to be overhauled at ~70k miles. Paint wasn't the best either. Not much power by today's standard, but was decent for the era.
Loved hearing from Bob Lutz.
I know a guy here who has 3 Merkur’s . He’s got 2 xr4ti’s a red and a black one, and he’s got a 4 door Scorpio that’s gold
As a previous (happy) owner of a Vauxhall Carlton (aka Opel Omega) in the UK, I would like to see a video about the Cadillac Catera. I also had a Sierra before the Carlton. As a Citroen enthusiast, the Sierra was much better for me than the Cortina would have been. By the way, before moving to Europe in 1972, my family cars were Oldsmobiles.
another failure here, but quite popular car in Europe, they were cop cars.
It's a shame about the XR4Ti a friend of mine had one and she threw the keys to me and told me to take it for a drive and I drove it for about an hour and honestly I didn't want to give it back, it was a Real Performer I couldn't believe how it set you back in your seat when you stepped on it.
I was in Argentina in the 80's and the Sierra came out in 2 and 4 door and SW called a Rural. It looked great.
Another thing I’ll say, the XR4Ti is/was damn comfortable to drive. Built relatively well-aside from some of the engine woes. Very comfortable to drive on any length of trip. Not noisy. Easy to drive. Ergonomics very good. Very comfortable seats. Smooth ride.
As a kid in the ‘80s, I felt like I had a pretty good idea of where cars ranked in the marketplace… but Merkur was very confusing to me.
I had a relative that had the first-gen Sable and another that had an Escort EXP (2nd gen). So, the Merkur brand just seemed unnecessary (as it didn’t seem like nothing more than a mix of the two aforementioned cars - in my opinion).
I remember reading car magazines and thinking to myself, “If I were a grownup, I would just get an Audi, Mercedes, or BMW.” 🤷♂️
Also, “XR4Ti” just seemed like they were trying too hard to sound cool and different.
I think Bob Lutz’s blaming of the ad agency is misplaced. It’s the client’s responsibility to bring a clear vision and be unyielding in executing that vision. As a seasoned marketer, my hunch is Lutz was let down by his lack of supervision, his own team, and their lack of strategy. Strong marketing strategy yields strong ad results… so the problem wasn’t the agency.
Love my Scorpio. Semi-daily driver, with about 89k miles. It's my second one.
Great to see and hear from Bob Lutz on the Merkur mistep. I was a young motor head and college student at the time the XR4Ti was being marketed and frequently walked the Lincoln Mercury dealership lots on Sunday mornings looking at these machines that were, oh so out of reach. Liked the cars then, and I like them now. Unfortunate that the marketing and timing weren't right for these cars on our shores.
Every story of a car being imported by the big US brands, includes some kind of self sabotage. I used to think it was an intentional thing, until I learnt that the big three are equally adept at setting up domestic product to fail too.
It's the saddest of stories, really. The common story of 'the Big 3 didn't see the Japanese coming to take the low end and the Germans taking the high end'. But the Merkur story (among others) illustrates that they could see the looming problems just fine.
UNDERSTANDING those problems and implementing a plan to address them... That's different.
- don't forget the 'NIH' (Not Invented Here) mentality... as-in "we" can't let something created/invented 'over there' succeed (as it'll then make "us" look bad).
Naval gazing morons..
The Not Invented Here Syndrome.
I had a white '86 XR4Ti. Such a fun car to drive and just fantastic handling. Matched my friends 318i in every way. I remember driving from Chicago to Elkhart Lake (Road America) after work one night and had a Mustang GT go past me, so I decided to tag along. We were already past Milwaukee, so we opened it up. I was even surprised that I stayed with him to 125mph when I decided it would be better to sleep at the track rather than in a Wisconsin jail. But the car was absolutely fine at that speed.
Another fantastic video. And I could listen to Lutz talk all day. One thing that you talked about that I've never understood. The "in today's money it would cost x". I've done this exercise on many many cars and you brought up one with the Town Car in noting at that in today's money the town car would have cost 70ish K along with the Merkur. It just doesn't add up. Example. 2002 Montero in "today's money" would be 58k, yet a LOADED 2024 Outlander sells for around 43k. Maybe it's buying power? And no way people were paying the equivalent of nearly 60k for a Montero in 2002. Another example. A 1990 BMW 525i base price was 33k which in "today's" money comes to 80k today,,yet in 2024 a 5 series starts at 56k... Just wanted to get your take on, it just never adds up to make sense to me.
At 9:04 NO XR4ti had a factory intercooler. The engine is identical between the Automatic and Manual.
When that came out I remember thinking it was a odd duck.
The styling was odd, and didn't do it any favors.
I totally agree. Electrician working for us, bought one brand new. XR4ti, so got to check up close.. Ugly..
I’ve owned 9 manual XR4Tis. One from every year. Only one of them had an intercooler. And that was added by the kid that owned it before me. It came off of a Thunderbird turbo coupe
I loved my Scorpio. I had two one I paid 18000 got scared of the falling value and traded it in. But I missed it so much I bought a second one and loved that one two. The car was a great drivers car the seats were so comfortable I saved the front seats out of a parts car. Those seats are now in my 67 mustang coup and they are really nice, I don't care that they dont belong there. So at least in my case the scorpio lives on in a completely rebuilt mustang coup.
I have had 2 of these (the Netherlands) back then and this was quite an underrated car.
I had a merkur RC car when I was a kid (8yo?).... none of us could figure out what it was at that time. :)
Interesting point about car dealers here...looking back, I wonder how much better then Mark VII LSC could have done (not that it did poorly) sales wise if the dealers understood just how different the car was from anything else Lincoln had done before.
Many car dealers in my experience don't understand their cars though. I can give two first hand experiences, one with Lincoln and one with Mercedes.
In Spring 1996, my friend Sal's parents bought a new Continental. My friend an I were in our last year of high school together. The car was very well equipped with I think every option, or close to it, including the JBL stereo with the factory CD changer. When you got the disc changer from the factory, the head unit took in the signal the proper direct way and was equipped with built in, clearly marked additional controls for the changer that weren't on the non-CD head units. If the dealer installed the changer, it got fed to the head unit with an FM modulator and had a separate controller. Anyway, the disc changer wasn't working from new. I went to the dealer with my friend, and I sat in the passenger seat of the car while the salesperson got in the driver's seat and was attempting to get the CD to play by tuning in the radio to an FM station. I explained to him how this car has the CD changer going direct, there are buttons right there to control it, etc. and it's broken. The salesperson kept trying to improperly operate it, which of course did nothing. Eventually, I could still almost see thought clouds in his head saying, borrowing from MY COUSIN VINNY "I guess the f***in' thing is broken". They replaced the equipment and it was fine after. Sal liked telling that story to others. Thank you Sal.
Even worse in a different way was Mercedes. I still have Mom's (who passed on) 2008 CLK 350 Sport Cabriolet, and will always keep it. The car is a joy to drive. It has almost every option, missing the push button start (which I am glad not to have), the air conditioned seats, and the multicontour driver's seat. The car being the Sport variant is the heart of the story, though it's partially Mercedes own fault too beyond the dealer/salesperson we had, as they called it Sport Appearance Package or something like that. Anyway, the car was on the lot, and someone who had very good taste in specially ordering the car in Majestic Black with a Black roof and two-tone Ash and Black interior with the Black Ash wood, ended up not buying it for whatever reason, and it became ours. The Sport variants have better suspension, brakes, and steering. If you've ever driven a standard 350, there is no comparison in my opinion with the Sport version (the steering isn't even mentioned in the dealer brochure, but they drive quite differently if you've ever driven both. Oddly, the brochure makes it seem like the suspension is the same as the 8 cylinder, but the car definitely rides better than the CLK 500 we had before it, while the 500 handled like it was on rails). The salesperson didn't even know the cars were technically better, and almost disparagingly played down the package the car had as just some extra stuff they put on the car to make it look different! I can imagine that happened a lot, as the Sport version is not common, but it's certainly a better car.
Great video and always great to see more of the interview with Bob Lutz! But the whole time I'm watching this, I was hoping some mention would be made of another car Ford produced in this same time frame that seemed so inspired by the XR4ti with its unique front snout and dual-plane rear spoiler, the Mustang SVO. Dreamed of owning one of those back then and still would love to have one!
Ford would have been better off importing a LHD version of the Ford Falcon EA/EB series. I have done some history videos on these Falcons.
Adam, I was a teenager when that car came over and I loved it. I was very familiar with the Sierra in Greece.Problem was it was too expensive here.No one would pay that kind of money for a 4 cylinder 2 door.Same thing happened with the SVO Mustang.That car was a much better all around sports car than the GT.Mike the Greek
Sales Manager at a supplier I worked with at the time managed to scoop up a 5-speed, black on black Scorpio from the Ford management auction in St Louis. Paid a pittance for it because of the colours, the transmission, and the brand was being sunset. He felt like he’d won the lottery.
I remember tearing out photos of cars from the various car mags and taping them to my walls in HS - I definitely had an XR4Ti on my wall back in the day
We had a Ford Sierra "Estate" as a rental car in 1986 in the UK. I was a kid then.
How could Ford get it so wrong on so many levels wit this? They are supposed to be automotive experts. It just goes to show that highly paid management types are no better then anybody else.
That car is worth a fortune in the UK. Especially with the larger engine then what was offered here in Europe.
The American XR4ti had a smaller engine than our British XR4i, and their Scorpio engine was less powerful than ours due to their emissions requirement
Fantastic episode. Bob Lutz is a fount of interesting stories. Ford, GM, Chrysler, BMW, what car companies did Mr. Lutz NOT work at?