We use the over under technique for live production stuff, and I will explain why. When you wrap a cable in the fashion this gentleman just did, if you set the coil down the ground and pick straight up on one end, it looks like a spring. You're twisting the cable and that twist has to go somewhere. Over under puts a twist one way, then the other way so when you pull that cable it comes STRAIGHT. Also when you get into 50+ feet of cable, the pinch and twist is sending that twist a long way down the cable and it takes a lot of effort. Over under, again you don't have a twist, you're cancelling it out and it's just as fast.
***** Learned the same method in my time I spent shooting a TV series. Apart from the reasons you mentioned, this technique pays off when it has to go quickly (e.g. when a BLC camera cable has to be replaced shortly before a take). With over/under coiled cable you will be able to hold onto one end of the cable near the source and throw the rest towards the point where it needs to go. If the coil was done correctly, it will perfectly unwrap, straighten out and lay itself out all in one move.
***** Same been an A/V Tech for 8 years and have always used the Over Under way of coiling cables because of this reason. I wouldn't use this technique definitely watch a video on the Over Under wrap.
***** Definitely. In Australia, I know plenty of theatre companies that will never hire you again if you don't use over-under. Every hired cable I've ever seen (from a half-way legitimate company) comes coiled using over-under, and this applies to power, audio and video cables alike. I feel this needs a followup from RocketJump as to why it's seen as a bad thing for power cables, because the flaws shown in the video, primarily being that the cable ends up twisted if you want to wind with a fixed end, are solved using the over-under technique. Same applies for unwinding, with the technique in the video, you couldn't plug one end in and run it out to the destination, because the twists would be a massive pain to deal with.
Over/under is taught for broadcast television because the studio cameras used to live plugged into the wall, in order to pull cable instantly without getting knots.
As a pro audio engineer I can tell you that EVERY cable should be wrapped over-under EVERY TIME, unless you like buying new ones. We box up stage snakes over-under, and those contain dozens of XLRs and are usually several inches in diameter. An over-over is a spring that's loaded with tension. An over-under is essentially a figure 8 pattern where any tension in one loop is undone by the following one. That poor stinger looks like it just got a perm.
I am so bewildered that people would actually teach others a technique that is not the best, all of that in perfect good faith, while dismissing the “over under” method. This is really fascinating.
If you're on a film set, it is ALWAS continuous clockwise, if for no other reason, because that's its "memory." Over/under is the standard for thin cables: audio, SDI, thin camera cables, etc.
The reason you wrap signal cables over/under is because of the twisting. Over/under cancels out that twist that you mentioned when the other end is plugged in. Twisting coaxial cables damages their shielding (flat outer layer) in the long run, so you want to avoid that as much as possible. At least that's what I was taught.
Over/Under is still used widely in theater with most types of cable. The slight twist added when coiling for each 'over' is offset by each 'under' and results in a cable that doesn't have a bunch of twist at one end. It lets you plug in an end and walk out a run of cable without getting all terrible. The idea that over/under is bad is silly.
J Calkins It was a response to the statement towards the end of the video where he says to never over-under. Happy to see multiple perspectives though!
It's kinda interesting how you can see the wires getting kinda twisted inside from bad coiling/uncoiling of some sort by looking at the cable being bumpy. Also electrical cables like the stinger have to be coiled over-over clockwise this way because the wires inside twist around in a spiral, so doing over-under untwists the wires. And cables like BNC or XLR cables have straight wires in them, but a braided shielding so you do over-under to not twist the wires and not screw up the braiding. Hope this makes sense and clarifies how to coil a cable :]
I'd say both techniques have their strengths and proper applications, but one drawback with the over-under way I haven't seen mentioned: If you happen to pull one end through the coil itself it will create several knots on the cable. Not a good look. On a 50 metre power cable it can be tricky to immediately see which direction the cable was coiled, and in an hasty environment you might grab one end, not realising you are pulling it through the middle of the coil. Wrapping over-over will not create this issue.
Oh, you can do what I do. Just hold one end, and then wrap it over your bicep until it's perfectly wrapped. Saves plenty of time and energy, and it makes you stronger the heavier it feels
There's also the figure eight technique, if you don't require transportation of your wrapped cable. The figure eight wrapped cable is great if you want no knots and need to feed cable fast. It's also does the least damage to cables and is very easy to do on thick analogue camera cables.
HeyJD True. We figure 8 our much larger cables like Banded Cam-lock and 100 Amp Bates Cable etc. if we have lots of excess and aren't going to be moving it. But when you do move it, you wrap it in a circle, on the ground, and then throw it on a cable cart.
Where can I get the wire clamp rope attachment found on most stingers so I can install those on my own cables? I searched online and couldn't find it anywhere. Thanks!
I understand but everybody saying about over over we'll put a Twist in the copper but you are allowing a Twist to come out all the way to the end as you did it, resolving the twist problem. but why should you never ever ever do an over/under with a power cable? it's not like it would harm anything, would it?
Because over under reduces damage, thereby, it should be used all the time whatsoever. Otherwise you will ruin thousands of dollars in equipment and will be banned from working on a set ever again. At least that's what I'm getting from everyone else
MaghoxFr Just simple string held in place with a plastic bushing. All the major film suppliers assemble them like that. I prefer velcro ties, but that's just me.
I also disagree with this method. Like most other people, I've learned over under from working on live TV sets. The primary reason to use over under is that the method creates a figure 8 shape which has fewer bends than a circle. This obviously leads to less strain and less overall wear on the cable. It's the same reason why you never wrap cable around your hand and elbow, it puts too much extra stress on the cable. Also, when working with hundreds of feet of cable, it's nice to have a cable that unwraps cleanly and doesn't have a bunch of twists in it. Side note: I like to use velcro ties on shorter cables as they are often a lot quicker than rope, but it typically depends what the cable already has on it.
J Calkins I know that its coming later. I would have rather seen only one video for over under, since I can't think of any reasons why this method may be better.
I've learned it kind of the same way and it's in my opinion the right way but my first thought of this cable was 'This cable is really fucked up!'... ;)
Unidrw Nothing special. Just a little Husky flip open box cutter from Home Depot. A lot of people hate them, but for some reason I love it. I always buy the blue one.
janun biber leaving it out, straight in in the sun on a warm day has worked for me. (Any gentle heating would work, the idea is to get it to relax, and reset in an untwisted state)
So why exactly is over-under a bad thing in RocketJump's opinion? I read the comments and understand why it's maybe considered a GOOD thing but I'm curious as to why you think otherwise. Maybe I've been doing it wrong all along with over-under!
What!? Never 'over under'!? I don't think you have worked a lot of live TV productions. Maybe in film you can 'over over' everything. If you have a hand-held cam op take off running on you with 500 feet of triax and you didn't 'over under' the cable you are going to look like a fool with a mess of cable everywhere. 'Over under' everything, except maybe power cables. They are the only exception I have ever run into.
Jason Steiner I definitely agree with you on the importance of over under style. With regards to power cables I was taught to figure 8 them so that your breaking up the possibility of creating an electromagnetic field... especial when working with feeder cable.
Only an amateur wraps a cable all in the same direction. The only time it is really done is when cables are stored on spools. Cables wrapped in one direction have one twist per wrap. The over under method puts a twist in then takes it out. You can pull from a 200 foot coil and not have to worry about the cable getting tangled.
"Never never never wrap over/under" What. WHAT. Dude, where did you get this idea? "Never never never???" Since this is clearly a strong opinion, please do a video explaining exactly what you think occurs when you wrap over/under VS wrapping with this method.
Its sad to see someone in the business using completely improper technique. The over/under method is the right way to wrap cables. NOT what this vodeo shows.
Dude, you should definitely wrap stingers over-under, just like any other kind of cable. Only ropes can be wrapped over-over. The reason you can get away with it in this video is because you're using such a short stinger. Every time you pinch and twist, that twist accumulates in the uncoiled remainder of the cable. The twisting is easy enough in the beginning, but it's going to get harder and harder the farther you go. You'll ruin many cables over a career, not to mention your wrists. And all that twisting is getting included in your coil. That means the only way you can uncoil it without getting kinks is to unroll it the opposite way you originally rolled it. When throwing out, you essentially have to give it a spin so it unrolls in mid air. Only possible with short cables like this, and even then the unrolled cable in your video is far from perfectly straight. There are obvious stresses in there. When you do it properly, OVER-UNDER, you can grab one end from a 100" coil and just walk away with it, having it uncoil into a perfectly straight and kink free cable run behind you.
This is crap! Over-under all cables! It is not bad for AC stingers. I don't know who started this myth, but it's nonsense. If there is any memory(or natural twist) in the cable, it is very slight, almost imperceptible. Using over-over introduces more twist into the cable, making it want to coil and not lay flat when it's time to be used. And while throwing a cable is nice and can feel good when it comes out straight like that, a correctly over-undered cable will do the same thing. What an over-over cable won't do is lay flat when you lay it out from the coil, which you will have to do on a tight set. You don't always have the option to throw cables around, which means you have to untwist the cable from one end so no one trips over the cable that wants to stand up off the ground. It's ridiculous that every other cable on set gets wrapped over-under, but for some unproven reason, AC is an exception.
Over-over is how they wrap cables in Local 728. Want proof? Rent stingers from any rental house in LA. This week I've rented from ToyBox Rentals, Blackstone Entertainment, and Wooden Nickel here in LA and they've all been over-over. Go to any studio lot and you will find stingers wrapped over-over I promise you. I started working set-lighting in Hollywood wrapping Over-Under just like my school taught me and I was laughed at by several electricians on several sets and scolded by rental houses. I was so certain I was correct because surely my school couldn't have gotten something so basic so wrong. If your argument is "they should change because it doesn't make sense" that's fine. That's your opinion. But the professional standard is Over-Over and that is what he is teaching here. He is 100% correct about this particular cable in this particular profession.
We use the over under technique for live production stuff, and I will explain why.
When you wrap a cable in the fashion this gentleman just did, if you set the coil down the ground and pick straight up on one end, it looks like a spring. You're twisting the cable and that twist has to go somewhere. Over under puts a twist one way, then the other way so when you pull that cable it comes STRAIGHT. Also when you get into 50+ feet of cable, the pinch and twist is sending that twist a long way down the cable and it takes a lot of effort. Over under, again you don't have a twist, you're cancelling it out and it's just as fast.
***** Learned the same method in my time I spent shooting a TV series. Apart from the reasons you mentioned, this technique pays off when it has to go quickly (e.g. when a BLC camera cable has to be replaced shortly before a take). With over/under coiled cable you will be able to hold onto one end of the cable near the source and throw the rest towards the point where it needs to go. If the coil was done correctly, it will perfectly unwrap, straighten out and lay itself out all in one move.
***** Same been an A/V Tech for 8 years and have always used the Over Under way of coiling cables because of this reason. I wouldn't use this technique definitely watch a video on the Over Under wrap.
***** Definitely. In Australia, I know plenty of theatre companies that will never hire you again if you don't use over-under. Every hired cable I've ever seen (from a half-way legitimate company) comes coiled using over-under, and this applies to power, audio and video cables alike.
I feel this needs a followup from RocketJump as to why it's seen as a bad thing for power cables, because the flaws shown in the video, primarily being that the cable ends up twisted if you want to wind with a fixed end, are solved using the over-under technique. Same applies for unwinding, with the technique in the video, you couldn't plug one end in and run it out to the destination, because the twists would be a massive pain to deal with.
***** What is the correct way to coil a cable? A: Over/Under B: Straight Coiling C: Whatever the fuck your Key wants.
Chris Cawley
When in doubt, always C haha
Over/under is taught for broadcast television because the studio cameras used to live plugged into the wall, in order to pull cable instantly without getting knots.
+RocketJump Film School Also so an assistant can throw the cable out in loops. Makes it a lot easier on ya if your cameraman runs away XD
As a pro audio engineer I can tell you that EVERY cable should be wrapped over-under EVERY TIME, unless you like buying new ones. We box up stage snakes over-under, and those contain dozens of XLRs and are usually several inches in diameter. An over-over is a spring that's loaded with tension. An over-under is essentially a figure 8 pattern where any tension in one loop is undone by the following one. That poor stinger looks like it just got a perm.
I am so bewildered that people would actually teach others a technique that is not the best, all of that in perfect good faith, while dismissing the “over under” method. This is really fascinating.
If you're on a film set, it is ALWAS continuous clockwise, if for no other reason, because that's its "memory." Over/under is the standard for thin cables: audio, SDI, thin camera cables, etc.
The reason you wrap signal cables over/under is because of the twisting. Over/under cancels out that twist that you mentioned when the other end is plugged in. Twisting coaxial cables damages their shielding (flat outer layer) in the long run, so you want to avoid that as much as possible.
At least that's what I was taught.
J Calkins I think everyone knows that; he was just explaining how it works.
The most important thing I ever learned in college.
How to coil a cable.
Step one: Coil the cable.
Forssa1 Step 2 if coiled incorrectly, hand off to someone who appears to know what their doing and blame someone else :P
Forssa1 It seems easy, but a lot of people mess it up anyway.
Forssa1 help
penis in soda can, instructions not clear
They make it look so easy. But I can tell you that I still suck at it.
Just takes practice. Let the cable coil itself.
Over/Under is still used widely in theater with most types of cable. The slight twist added when coiling for each 'over' is offset by each 'under' and results in a cable that doesn't have a bunch of twist at one end. It lets you plug in an end and walk out a run of cable without getting all terrible. The idea that over/under is bad is silly.
J Calkins It was a response to the statement towards the end of the video where he says to never over-under. Happy to see multiple perspectives though!
J Calkins And I'm sure in the a/v coiling video they'll say, "never ever ever coil over only..."
+stewdawg4life Amen to that! Except when you accidentally pull one end thru all the loops and end up with an army of pretzels on your cable :)
It's kinda interesting how you can see the wires getting kinda twisted inside from bad coiling/uncoiling of some sort by looking at the cable being bumpy.
Also electrical cables like the stinger have to be coiled over-over clockwise this way because the wires inside twist around in a spiral, so doing over-under untwists the wires.
And cables like BNC or XLR cables have straight wires in them, but a braided shielding so you do over-under to not twist the wires and not screw up the braiding.
Hope this makes sense and clarifies how to coil a cable :]
I don't know if this is really healthy for the cable, see 00:57, that twisting is what you put on the cable with your coiling.
I'd say both techniques have their strengths and proper applications, but one drawback with the over-under way I haven't seen mentioned: If you happen to pull one end through the coil itself it will create several knots on the cable. Not a good look. On a 50 metre power cable it can be tricky to immediately see which direction the cable was coiled, and in an hasty environment you might grab one end, not realising you are pulling it through the middle of the coil. Wrapping over-over will not create this issue.
+Tobias Andersson THIS! Happens way too much in the A/V world especially with xlr cable.
Oh, you can do what I do. Just hold one end, and then wrap it over your bicep until it's perfectly wrapped. Saves plenty of time and energy, and it makes you stronger the heavier it feels
How to be a grip:
Step 1: watch this video
Step 2: you win
There's also the figure eight technique, if you don't require transportation of your wrapped cable. The figure eight wrapped cable is great if you want no knots and need to feed cable fast. It's also does the least damage to cables and is very easy to do on thick analogue camera cables.
HeyJD True. We figure 8 our much larger cables like Banded Cam-lock and 100 Amp Bates Cable etc. if we have lots of excess and aren't going to be moving it. But when you do move it, you wrap it in a circle, on the ground, and then throw it on a cable cart.
Where can I get the wire clamp rope attachment found on most stingers so I can install those on my own cables? I searched online and couldn't find it anywhere. Thanks!
At 1:30, what's a 'head feeder'?
You should show us wrapping a 250 foot cable, cause those are always fun to do
Is Over-Under effectually the same as Pinch-and-twist?
I understand but everybody saying about over over we'll put a Twist in the copper but you are allowing a Twist to come out all the way to the end as you did it, resolving the twist problem. but why should you never ever ever do an over/under with a power cable? it's not like it would harm anything, would it?
Because over under reduces damage, thereby, it should be used all the time whatsoever. Otherwise you will ruin thousands of dollars in equipment and will be banned from working on a set ever again.
At least that's what I'm getting from everyone else
best tutorial ever. not even joking.
what are those ties the cable has? pretty cool
MaghoxFr Just simple string held in place with a plastic bushing. All the major film suppliers assemble them like that. I prefer velcro ties, but that's just me.
hogwashsentinel thanks for the answer, I've never seen those. I bought a bunch of velcro ones by now.
I also disagree with this method. Like most other people, I've learned over under from working on live TV sets. The primary reason to use over under is that the method creates a figure 8 shape which has fewer bends than a circle. This obviously leads to less strain and less overall wear on the cable. It's the same reason why you never wrap cable around your hand and elbow, it puts too much extra stress on the cable. Also, when working with hundreds of feet of cable, it's nice to have a cable that unwraps cleanly and doesn't have a bunch of twists in it. Side note: I like to use velcro ties on shorter cables as they are often a lot quicker than rope, but it typically depends what the cable already has on it.
J Calkins I know that its coming later. I would have rather seen only one video for over under, since I can't think of any reasons why this method may be better.
***** Thanks for the clarification!
So what's the best way to wrap a phone charger and earbuds?
I've learned it kind of the same way and it's in my opinion the right way but my first thought of this cable was 'This cable is really fucked up!'... ;)
Odd question, what knife do you have in your pocket? (other than the leatherman) :D
Unidrw Nothing special. Just a little Husky flip open box cutter from Home Depot. A lot of people hate them, but for some reason I love it. I always buy the blue one.
He should be using the over-under technique. #RealProTip
At the end he should have said "That's a wrap"
In the entertainment industry its Over-over for power feeding copper cable and over-under for signal cable.
Thank you.
now everyone is gonna do this with their headphones and break them
you did the over, but ... um.... you forgot the under part of it. I guess over over works fine for short cables, bad news for long cables though.
What if the cable's memory is messed up?
janun biber leaving it out, straight in in the sun on a warm day has worked for me. (Any gentle heating would work, the idea is to get it to relax, and reset in an untwisted state)
So why exactly is over-under a bad thing in RocketJump's opinion? I read the comments and understand why it's maybe considered a GOOD thing but I'm curious as to why you think otherwise. Maybe I've been doing it wrong all along with over-under!
You're right. Thanks for the callout. Looking forward to it!
***** That makes complete sense. Thanks for clearing that up!
I worked at a electronics company, organized cabletrees and made plugs/cables, and that twistmemory is basicly the most annoying thing ever.
What!? Never 'over under'!? I don't think you have worked a lot of live TV productions. Maybe in film you can 'over over' everything. If you have a hand-held cam op take off running on you with 500 feet of triax and you didn't 'over under' the cable you are going to look like a fool with a mess of cable everywhere. 'Over under' everything, except maybe power cables. They are the only exception I have ever run into.
Jason Steiner I definitely agree with you on the importance of over under style. With regards to power cables I was taught to figure 8 them so that your breaking up the possibility of creating an electromagnetic field... especial when working with feeder cable.
@Jason Steinerprije, why shouldn't one over/under power cables?
The music was very fitting LOL
@FrozenThai Super helpful!
I WANT THAT JOB. WRAPPING CABLES
Jeroen de Wit get a grip
***** LMFAO
Jeroen de Wit Are you sure?
Over under is the only correct way.
Hi! I liked ur al videos and wanna work with u... I want to learn under ur guidance... hope u vl help me out....
GENIUS! (but really, thanks)
Only an amateur wraps a cable all in the same direction. The only time it is really done is when cables are stored on spools. Cables wrapped in one direction have one twist per wrap. The over under method puts a twist in then takes it out. You can pull from a 200 foot coil and not have to worry about the cable getting tangled.
The hell is a grip doing with a stinger.
Yasss
The more you know.
No one calls that a Hubble. That's just a brand name.
BS, over-under is the proper way to wrap all normal extension cords, not stingers. If you don't believe me, ask a fireman.
I'm a cable coil whiner
but but...im not a rapper.
"Never never never wrap over/under" What. WHAT. Dude, where did you get this idea? "Never never never???" Since this is clearly a strong opinion, please do a video explaining exactly what you think occurs when you wrap over/under VS wrapping with this method.
what the hell is kevin wearing
basil B It's a magenta-and-black gaff tape tie; it's what all the cool kids are wearing. Right? Right. Wrong? Hmm.
***** Now I know; thanks RocketJump Film School. Learning every day :(
Its sad to see someone in the business using completely improper technique. The over/under method is the right way to wrap cables. NOT what this vodeo shows.
Wow, that is an awful wrap. Also why is a grip teaching how to wrap cable. Shouldn't a juicer be giving this tutorial.
Dude, you should definitely wrap stingers over-under, just like any other kind of cable. Only ropes can be wrapped over-over. The reason you can get away with it in this video is because you're using such a short stinger. Every time you pinch and twist, that twist accumulates in the uncoiled remainder of the cable. The twisting is easy enough in the beginning, but it's going to get harder and harder the farther you go. You'll ruin many cables over a career, not to mention your wrists. And all that twisting is getting included in your coil. That means the only way you can uncoil it without getting kinks is to unroll it the opposite way you originally rolled it. When throwing out, you essentially have to give it a spin so it unrolls in mid air. Only possible with short cables like this, and even then the unrolled cable in your video is far from perfectly straight. There are obvious stresses in there. When you do it properly, OVER-UNDER, you can grab one end from a 100" coil and just walk away with it, having it uncoil into a perfectly straight and kink free cable run behind you.
First
This is crap! Over-under all cables! It is not bad for AC stingers. I don't know who started this myth, but it's nonsense. If there is any memory(or natural twist) in the cable, it is very slight, almost imperceptible. Using over-over introduces more twist into the cable, making it want to coil and not lay flat when it's time to be used. And while throwing a cable is nice and can feel good when it comes out straight like that, a correctly over-undered cable will do the same thing. What an over-over cable won't do is lay flat when you lay it out from the coil, which you will have to do on a tight set. You don't always have the option to throw cables around, which means you have to untwist the cable from one end so no one trips over the cable that wants to stand up off the ground. It's ridiculous that every other cable on set gets wrapped over-under, but for some unproven reason, AC is an exception.
Over-over is how they wrap cables in Local 728. Want proof? Rent stingers from any rental house in LA. This week I've rented from ToyBox Rentals, Blackstone Entertainment, and Wooden Nickel here in LA and they've all been over-over. Go to any studio lot and you will find stingers wrapped over-over I promise you.
I started working set-lighting in Hollywood wrapping Over-Under just like my school taught me and I was laughed at by several electricians on several sets and scolded by rental houses. I was so certain I was correct because surely my school couldn't have gotten something so basic so wrong.
If your argument is "they should change because it doesn't make sense" that's fine. That's your opinion. But the professional standard is Over-Over and that is what he is teaching here. He is 100% correct about this particular cable in this particular profession.
@@00WhiteBlade I'm well aware that it's a standard. But like I laid out, it's a nonsensical one.