Playing A.B.A For A Week To See If She's Bottom Tier
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- Опубликовано: 3 апр 2024
- #fightinggames #guiltygear #guiltygearstrive
Top players said that the newest Guilty Gear character, A.B.A, is terrible. Is she really? I played her for a week to try to see what type of character she really is.
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How are you feeling about ABA?
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Hi, Lordknight, few things to know about ABA: You can block while dashing in base ABA, and her Jealous Rage mode she has a really good dash block. Vine super is weak against jumping, it's overrated. Lastly, both ABAs have tons of good options out of sweep or 2k, so don't be too afraid to use her kicks
Her pressure feels really nice. Her buttons generally have something redeeming. Because of her routes, RCs, and 236D, it's rare to not get jealous after landing a stray hit. I only play arcade mode, but I picked up the character and perfected arcade faster than any other character so far. I think she's a good addition to the game.
@LordnkightFGC I disagree with most other people’s takes, she might actually be a top tier character, solid defense in normal mode and amazing offense in jealousy mode.
A.B.A. looks like the kind of character that people discard at the beginning because of a significant weakness. And then someone shows up out of nowhere, wins a tournament with her and people evaluate the meta again. She is Melee Yoshi.
this pretty much already happened originally with aba in plus r
@@lilac_witch this already happened with nago too lol, well not exactly but you get what I mean
Happened w/ Nago, happened w/ Happy Chaos, time for the 3rd season to get the trifecta.
idk on launch a lot of asia player think nago is mid, i mean sol just outshine everyone tbf ,but i dont see any region think aba is good. First she is dlc character eventually she will get change. But right now due to everything she does in jealousy mode will burn resource, you struggle a lot on character can do long block string. For example if you been catch by jacko's in jealousy mode she can burn your meter easily until you change mode automatic without meter you basically doom jacko's back dash is so quick and she have amazing projectdiles she wont have any chance to gain any resource. She might not bad but sure have a lot of bad matchup. Also i cant understand why i have to spend 1/4 meter to do normal throw to someone.
Reminder that people thought Nagoriyuki was bad In the beta and begged for buffs.
A.B.A was bottom tier in +R for like a decade before people recognized the potential of moroha and goku moroha, and now she's considered pretty good. In strive she can't get instant killed so compared to her last version I think she's pretty heavily buffed just by that, and her install isn't much weaker than it used to be. I think she's gonna end up considered pretty strong again once the potential is recognized, it's just that like in +R you need to work piloting her to make the most of her install, and really manage the meter well so you don't get stuck in NM with no bar.
Mhm, once people figure out how to to manage her install meter, and figure out how to work with A.B.A's strengths in normal form, we could be looking at a pretty promising character.
Her Jealous Rage form is obviously amazing, and can end the fight terrifyingly quick. The main downside being, you REALLY don't want to give your opponent a turn before you can manual switch/keygrab back to normal form. (otherwise you just lose all your Jealousy meter)
Though it's a nice bonus that she has (I believe?) the 3rd highest hp in the game, she's just under Potemkin~
Same happened to kliff. I’d argue ABA has potential to be upper mid or even a low high tier, while kliff is probably has similar potential but perhaps more of a definitive high mid charter. Both are very strong as shown by new strategies from new players.
Justice is also an extremely weird case. Her tier ranking seems completely uncertain. She could be even stronger than ABA or Kliff. Some of the best Justice players show with good enough reaction and awareness, her missiles can put you in a checkmate scenario very early into a round
4:13 the ABA braincell at its finest
Fighting game players have a terrible mentality tbh. The fact that they’d say shit like “this character sucks” on day 1 when it’s matchup based is wild. Nobody is grinding out matches against every character that fast. People really need to be quiet.
She strikes me like Marisa and Big Bird summarized her best
"How can you have a bad match up when you hit them and win?"
4:09 imagine comboing someone and then it rollsback to them mid dp lmaooooo
ruclips.net/video/qd6LcEDR-pE/видео.html
Xeno Ame has done a pretty concise guide on ABA normal pressure if anyone's interested.
where
@@zachstarattack7320 On YT. just search Xeno Ame
I definitely knew ahead of time that A.B.A is going to be seen as a weak character at launch, even with an op install- downplaying her normal mode. But sincerely give props to the design team for creating such interesting situations with the mechanic. Either be it key grab, her install super switching forms or being able to gain gauge back from detransforming- they really made use of the games mechanics to make her such unique and surprisingly balanced character.
Design ? You mean recycle
But they did well in my eyes sure
I feel like she plays a lot like Pot, or at least how I play Pot. You get your ass kicked for a while, and then you see it. The opportunity. The gap in the pressure. And then, you absolutely EXPLODE them. Since Strive is such a rushdown's game, a lot of people lack the patience to just get their ass kicked for a while. I wouldn't say I'm the golden god of defense, nor am I saying there are never rounds where you just... die without doing anything, but I do think if you can hold the line for long enough, most of the time, you'll find your opening.
As a Pot main picking up A.B.A I fully agree, I'm used to blocking a lot and having to pick my moments and getting that sweet HKD, this was and still is my gameplan with A.B.A although simply updated for the character. Instead of just getting good OKI and crazy plus frames, I get insane rushdown, high/low, and fuzzy mixups. Enjoying her so far
Meh i feel like aba can call out alot of stuff you do in Neutral i use alot of parrying and lowprofiling and as soon as i get a bit of mode i use it to get in
Thank you, LK, for your insight. I appreciate that you didn't immediately write off the character like a lot of the community did. ABA looks really cool and really fun.
The kind of community you gets , when ARC demand to broad out the appeal
gotta try to give each character their fair shake tbh. Sometimes it's clear after a couple of days, but some characters take longer to flesh out.
Young gamer now has no patience at all , not that I'm any old or wrinkly wised
People always downplay characters when they first come out. Look at the way people were calling Nago weak during the betas. I’m not saying she’s not weak, I’m just saying that people gotta wait a little before making judgements like that man.
Nago WAS weak, when will people realize this? SSS drained barely any blood, clone went nowhere, uppercut had no manual delay, 6P didn't shrink hurtbox fast enough.
Nago was buffed before ppl found him out, is this not revisionist lmao?
@@HellecticMojohe still wasn’t weak tho, after those buffs he went from A tier to SS tier
I wouldn't call that downplaying. Downplaying would be trying to minimize something that is good/established, but with a character like A.B.A. or beta Nago, we know/knew NOTHING. Using Nago as an example, people opinions at the time were based on the very limited info we had with a character who had not existed before. Opinions can and do change once more information is obtained.
It's the same with A.B.A. Her weaknesses are very noticeable and are very hard to mitigate, and while her strengths are also very noticeable, at this point you spend more time dealing with the weaknesses than reveling in the strengths. Perhaps in the future, with more tech and whatnot, it won't feel as bad as it does now. But right now she just feels bad so a lot of people call her bad, which I think is fair this early on.
tbf, people thought Elphelt was pretty good, now she's viewed as low tier.
I think people just expected her to be way better than she was and then overcorrected in the other direction
Honestly not having a hasty take is probably for the better, as people master the character you wouldn't want them to be instantly buffed and find out that they're actually way too strong.
As a new A.B.A. main... kindly shush. She's bad and needs the buffs, frfr. lolol
Could you make a video about those character profiles you were talking about? That sounds insanely interesting to see what type of player is drawn to which character. Awesome video as usual LK thanks for all your hard work!
love the vid. appreciate your perspective!
One thing I've really noticed is that a lot of people are not using all of her abilities. I rarely see frenzy and astonishment to gain meter (especially at a distance from projectiles), and intertwine and tilt to close distance (she does have a continuous dash in base form after pressing forward twice and holding it down like any other character). I also believe a lot of people that says she's trash got completely crushed by her lol. I've never seen a character that can turn around a match so quickly. Even with only 10% health I've seen her come back against somebody with like 80% health. She's a beast when used correctly and it's still early. There are a few channels with people doing absolutely stupid combos with her. I saw a guy do a aerial dust combo and finished with an aerial bonding and dissolving which blew my mind.
I feel like an interesting change for parry is keep it the same, but you can hold the input to change modes if you parried something during the inv window, letting you turn an enemy full screen projectile into jealousy mode
imo people are too down on 214S, possibly in part because everyone calls it a "parry" for shorthand. It doesn't win neutral when you're right and it's not supposed to. It's a cheeky way to cheat 25% rage out of your opponent's pressure. Sometimes people cancel off it and whiff something *inside you* and we say "hell yeah" when that happens but that's just bonus in my mentality.
but yeah when an axl throws out a rensen and you absorb it they SHOULD be having an "uhh shit whoops" reaction because that really is bad for them, and if that makes them hesitant that's more chance to Sway into rage.
man what song is playing at the beginning? sounds so familiar like from ACNH
I don't really play strive anymore, but I took one look at A.B.A and immediately thought "oh she's the kind of character people are gonna have to spend 9-12 months trying to figure out how to optimize and then ruin peoples day with" She clearly has some very good tools that aren't immediately clear in how you want to use them and has the potential to mode change and flip the table on an opening.
here for it, need more people to see the potential in tilt fast prc keygrab
Is that white color scheme a mod or a part of one of the pallet dlcs?
i think she's an example of a character that can be strong while also not being "tournament viable"
she probably has the least amount of even matchups in the entire game if she even has any even matchups and that's just not what serious players are looking for in a character. she's so incredibly volatile.
managing her rage is hands down the absolute core of her kit and there are no shortage of ways to build it and unlike a lot of characters that have resources tied to a bar in this game she actually has to care about it constantly so it's no wonder everyone said she was terrible in the first 3 days. strive balance and resource management doesn't exactly have an immaculate track record
approaching with her is always a risk and she has very little defensive recourse to keep people from running over her. she has offense without rage but it's not usually outstanding so that really leaves her neutral as the big enabler for her power to get put on display and even tho she has a number of quirks attached to her power in neutral, i think she has legitimately effective tools that can get her a lot of rage built up very fast and that's why i think she's strong and also why a lot of people don't think that way
if you play an obligate zoner or have a lot of large disjointed moves, she's only scary when in rage but she's scary to everyone else all the time just by virtue of how much rage she can build from almost any hit she gets and the main tactic i've seen developed from people who play shotos, rushdown or otherwise more obligate close range characters invariably reach the same conclusion
"do not approach her. get life lead and lame her out"
i am a believer that she's quite strong and i will argue that she's easily the strongest release state dlc character of s3
does she need changes? absolutely. she has a ton of small interaction quirks that probably shouldn't happen the way they do. does she need straight buffs? fuck no, and depending on what arcsys intends to improve on her (and i do think there are things that should be improved on her kit) she likely will also need things toned down as a result of receiving those improvements
if anything, my main concern is that i think we're in a situation where she's actually pretty decent at worst (albeit not meta changing) but so many people complain about her being bad that she gets turbo buffed into top 3 and suddenly (mysteriously) everyone's talking about how she "always had potential" and we're stuck dealing with 3 of her in every quarterfinals of every regional everywhere for the next 8 months
Jr 2s is a godsend for fighting pixies like Bridget, milia and Chipp who like to be aerial
Is parry any good for dealing with full screen axl pressure and using it against him in the form of meter? Or nah it’s too slow?
Very. I think it saves the matchup. Rensen has 24 frame startup and reaches full screen at 35 frames. The explosion is -3 on block. His long-range normals have slow startup and significantly negative on block. So you have massive gaps where you can parry.
She's good against zoning because of free rage. Except Asuka who spams too fast and is building towards exodia if he gets to stay unpressured.
@@killerkonnat good to know, especially the tip about Asuka. Thank you very much
She's basically a win condition character, so it's just a matter of how easy/hard it is for her to get into her win condition.
She really reminds me of CF valkenhayn
Literally Heaven or Hell the character.
She has p good abare buttons, feel like she'll get alot better as she develops, but I feel labbing outside stance is more important than jr, Jr feels pretty straightforward by comparison
0:46 Dyude that’s my clip
I’m basically a celebrity
Found the goldlewis match up impossible, but I’m no pro lol it felt REALLY bad though
Did you play any decent Asuka? From playing Aba I feel like every matchup is interactable except for a well played Asuka. He can basically make you waste all your jelly meter with a single good blockstring or combo so you have to be perfect.
Aba v Asuka is the definition of a 1-9 or 2-8 matchup. Like yeah if you get them in a corner without burst you get a round; but what are the odds of you doing that for 3+ games straight.
asuka one of my theory doom match ups, I played vs him on stream a couple of days ago
there is a little hope but it is very hard for sure
I've honestly enjoyed every match with ABA, whether it's a win or loss. Her parry honestly has hard taught me more about the yomi of the game, and I think the fact she has some simple mix ups and a good variety of anti air options creates a lot of opportunities to punish. I still wish the parry came out faster, or changing and swaying didn't start draining JR the frame she changes, but at this point, there's ways to work around both if you can get a good read on opponents. Of course, I'm still a fighting game newb, so i could be way off base.
Can you imagine if the parry came out frame 1 like booby lady's? I bring ruination!
You certainly are the one keeping me watching out for her
"Maria no Danzai"
I get the reference.
Been loving how ABA feels since playing her. She so perfectly fits my swinging mood to play slow and fast at the drop of a pin
I was actually surprised with her moves. I mean Im not a pro but her buttons actually seemed pretty good on their own. I think the problem people have is her momentum and dash. To me her normals feel pretty ok but her mobility/range limits when/where she can start and follow up with.
my only real concern with aba, that you didn't address in the video, is what does she do to deal with circle camping? like if the opponent gets a few hits and then commits to just not interacting at all to win by timeout (or worse, gets even more hits because their ultra passive play with a lead forces you to take big risks)? there isn't enough negative penalty in the world to keep chipp or millia from running circles around her when she's out of meter, and no negative penalty in the world will help her in those cases.
do you know what she can do when the opponent decides to play runaway?
She's not bottom tier, she's switch tier
ABA is strong for me as a low level player. I was able to get to 8f just because her offense in JR is so damn strong! c.s > 2H -> danzai -> big hole super seemed to hit everyone - and i always had tension. Then her air combo off danzai or 236s kd didn't seem too difficult to input either... fast forward a bit later i seen guys who play with FRC Keygrab combos that keep them in JR for what seems like forever . Dunno about high level though lol
Definitive how to A.B.A video when? 👀
How do you get this color? Anyone? Thanks.
I was thinking the same. I thought it was a mod for asecond
Assuming DLC characters would be bottom tier on release is so weird when I can't think of a single arc sys game where they didn't make sure dlc characters were at least mid.
Cant believe yandere mode got flushed its 100% accurate you were spittin
According to the Steam forums, she's an unbeatable, overpowered and unfair S+++++++ character that ruined the game though. xD
She reminds me a lot of learning Zato, and why there were so many Zato downplayers for so long. Shes hard to learn and some players equate that to her being bad.
W vid
ABA is pretty good, don't downplay the character btw you should manually cancel your install mode, to avoid draining your gauge, she is like Sato in that sense, so use your super and meter management to go in and out of jealousy, btw, ABA is character design to change drastically her playstyle and your role(attacker/defender/keeping neutral) by extension, once you are close to jealousy depleting you should, pull back and switch gears. PD: Goubo has already notice that and has a combo that ends in a reset after manually turn off jealousy rage, to restart pressure. If you haven't mastered that meter management is like Nago when nobody knew how to control their blood gauge and making players egos feel that is was the character that felt underwhelming when in reality it was all along their fault, same thing with Happy Chaos.
The famine is too famine-y. A specialist will make her work. But I just can't see an elite Asuka, HC, or Nago losing to A.B.A.. I do like your analysis of Chipp and Milia, because I figured they would also be pretty dominant matchups.
People don’t know how OP she is. With the right Management she can literally have full meter the whole round. I have a friend that loves this character. And it’s time where he just blows me up because he’s managing blood meter so good
The reasons people discarded A.B.A. for feels like as if Street Fighter players discarded Akuma because he has low health.
i dont care bout aba, but this indepth review was nice, so thanks. Take the like and comment
He already people say ABA is low tier, is what happen where dont want work hard to master a character, ABA in normal form is bad, but after transform is where the fun begins.
You think people calling her bad aren't saying that?
Holy shit maria no danzai reference wtf
There is no way shes bot tier. She is at least upper mid tier.
YE S MORE MATCH FOOTAGE PLEASE K THANKS
Is ABA low tier? In my hands, EVERY character is low tier!
Aside from 2k 2d not connecting max range I feel shes fine. A volatile character like her cannot be high tier. Though i feel her design worked better in older games since high damage wasn't always a given and as such could give her more utility.
Bottom 5 or so. Which isn't even that bad, just not high tier. She's fun and that matters most.
like ur mr beast shirt
I think on paper she’s really good but in practice I’ve not run into many issues against her, and this is coming from a Bedman main. I find her really easy to work around and adapt to, like there’s not that much matchup knowledge you need to know to come up with some sort of winning game plan on the fly. Time will tell of course but at least where I am, a normie outside of the elite of players, I don’t rate her that highly yet.
she's really cool and I like playing her, but I think the amount of investment it's gonna take to be ground-level effective with her isn't worth it compared to continuing on with characters I'd played before, but I think that because every other character gets dropped by me once Slayer comes out. Until Jam shows up Slayer will have to be REAL TRASH for me to play anyone but him. He's SO COOL.
added context: I'm floor 10ish and have over the time I've spent playing strive spent at least 40 hours trying to get good at and 'main' johnny, gio, elphelt, i-no and ram at various points. I spent the past week playing nothing but a.b.a. and frankly at first like day one I didn't agree with her being difficult to play but I'm really having my eyes opened to the reality.
She's got a Guard Crush, how could she be bad if she has the most broken mechanic to ever exist (sarcasm)
This character is a couple of buffs away from being a real problem. I think she deserves some love, but I don't think some people appreciate how quickly become meta defining.
Can you please make a Video, about the Player Profiles you have for each Charakter ^^ in ggst?
Doomers played her wrong the first three days imo. The only player (I follow) who got it right was Sajam.
I feel like shes B tier, then after a while she will be S, then after that go back to A and then back to low A.
I honestly still think she isn’t that strong. She is good against characters that play defensively, but most of her matchups are terrible.
After playing her nearly nonstop, I have to say some of her obvious downsides aren't AS bad as people might think.
What's important to know about ABA's kit is how to navigate the field in both her modes, defend against and halt your opponent's tactics, and how to convert and manage your resources. What's apparent is that she has no trouble knocking out a majority of the cast in as little as one or two interactions with her tricky 50/50s, high/low mixes jealousy mode enables for her. But managing to get the most out of it, especially against an opponent who can play out of her range, stall her, or exploit her lack of reversals will make any match up feel like an uphill battle. And it's not until players really hone on how to overcome those obstacles till you really see how ABA goes from being a powerhouse gimmick to a one-shot fiend.
I'm talking knowing when it's best to do her command dash (even while in jealousy) to open up and punish opponents in ways guarding originally wouldn't. As well as not only knowing how to approach and keep the pressure on, but also knowing when to disengage and force opponents to fall into you, even in scenarios where they can stall but run the risk of feeding ABA meter through parrying their ranged options or being affected by a danger/negative penalty.
Having played mostly Bedman? before ABA's release, I may have found adapting my approach based on the opponent's actions to be a bit easier than some. She has the tools to turn some of her opponent's best tools into their biggest weakness if you're prepared for it. And though she lacks traditional meter-less reversals, you also have to bear in mind that few of the who also lack these as well as having a secondary resource to manage still just about dominated the game (Chaos, Nago, pre nerfed Zato).
Personally, If I were to rank her, she has to between mid-B to low-A. She does take a bit more to manage than a standard character but has just the right health and damage modifiers that she can afford to make a few mistakes. She's clearly not dominating the meta, but still poses a great threat in any match up so long as she can get into Jealousy. You always have the potential to turn a losing battle into a win in as little as one install usage and two interactions if you play your cards right.
If there was anything I'd change, I wouldn't say passively gaining jealousy meter isn't entirely bad, but I'd prefer that to be reward for doing something, similarly to Nago's bite rapidly depleting his blood gauge even after a successful bite. Maybe have it tact to a successful key stab, were the initial amount of jealousy it gives on hit is reduced, but it will cause her jealousy slowly regen for a short period of time (or, in the case of when it procs her into jealously mode, reduces the drain rate for a bit when paired with the regen). Given the fact that the move is a bit tricky to hit on its own without sacrificing damage/combo potential you could do by using her rekka instead, which rewards just as much jealousy including a hard knockdown. Not to mention exiting Jealously manually already gives you a decent chunk of her meter back versus trying to go for a risky stab before the meter completely depletes while in it. And hitting the attack when you're nowhere near the 25% minimum often forces you to exit the mode prematurely, giving your opponent space due to the back roll quick roll recovery they get and potentially leaving you with less than you started.
Other than that, I think she's just fine. I doubt she'll see a lot of immediate success in tournaments, but once players take their time to build their approach with what's available to her and how to get the most out of it versus other kits, she has the potential to jumpscare some and cause quite a few unexpected upsets when in the right hands.
I feel like aba is kinda like sin where she is 1 or more small tweaks from being an incredibly strong character, but for now the best change would be to make the parry active on frame 1 like the other parries in the game
Parry if it were frame 1 would be stepping on the toes of Baiken's character identity, especially when Aba's parry feels intended to be used in such a vastly different way. Aba already has very privileged mash options and a decent metered reversal so making a neutral tool a meterless reversal that's also a gateway to game robbery would be very silly.
Stu. Strive cell appears
No way. Her "parry" being frame 1 would be insane. It's not meant to be used the same as the other parries in the game. It definitely shouldn't be a reversal. I could see it maybe being faster, and depending on how well people start optimizing her that might even be too strong. But it definitely shouldn't be active frame 1, that would be way too strong. Especially since it gets guaranteed reward (meter gain) no matter how close to her opponent she is, unlike Baiken's, which is only a punish at close range.
I would really just appreciate a way to get meter actively. The same way Jamie can choose to drink. It switches up the neutral dynamic and lets other ppl approach her. I know negative penalty exists, but its still rough to be stared at.
Good or bad, I think that's the most discorse i've seen around a character in a long while.
I know xenoblade menu music when I hear it 🫡
Some advice, the thumbnail makes it look like it's going to be day 4 of you doing gameplay and talking over it, which isnt as interesting to me as these analysis vids and i almost ended up not clicking on it, dunno if that's helpful.
IS SHE EMO
I know it's early but the ability to yrc or burst her into having no jelly gauge is really really bad and there's sorta not a great way to work around it. I can't see her being decent but we'll see
It's crazy how quickly people try to assign a tier to characters. In League it feels like it happens instantly, fighting games take a few days, I wish more games would go the SF6 route of leaving the game as it is for an extended period of time (year is maybe a bit long) so there is time to dive into the meta and evaluate all sorts of stuff. I wish I could make everyone realize that they don't want a balanced fighting game and that having consistent top tiers and not seeing certain characters in tournament is fine.
Anyways A.B.A is so trash she's bottom tier worst character in the game how could arcsys even dare to release her in this state they better hotfix buff her 2000% so that when someone figures out The Sauce with her they have to nerf her 5000% and she becomes actually useless
This might sound busted but the parry should max out your meter and/or let you input a jealousy mode during its invincible recovery. Yeah let it be 7 frames startup but at least it becomes a tool that zoners have to respect.
Dude, donating 25% rage for tossing out a fireball/rensen is already ridiculously strong. It doesn't need a buff, it's already single-handedly countering zoning.
She's broken. You pros are always sleeping on important parts.
funny cuz hotashi thinks aba is bottom of the cast, above zato of course. he did say she is FUN though and she looks fun when you're mauling
Much entertaining as he was , quite the fruad in top level competition
A S2 nago crutch
He's a strong player but as far as top players go, I feel like he has some pretty bad takes