#askGCNTech is it possible to save weight by cutting down the seatpost or using less headset spacers and cutting the steerer tube down. ive got mostly carbon parts and i still want to reduce weight. any thoughts?
I am a recreational rider who lives in a hilly area. I changed to rival chain rings this year and absolutely swear by them. I find the big difference is in climbing, especially out if the saddle. I will convert all my bikes
I have recently switched my bikes to ovals. I love them. It doesn't give you superpowers but pedaling is smoother and more efficient especially on lower cadences like on climbs.
@Monty & @ArtanisKizrath They indeed are great for climbing, I agree. Because I owned ovaltech chainrings in the 90's on a Trek 8000 using a Shimano 600 crankset. They also are great for accelerating. In my opinion.
I just recently changed to ovals and my experience is exactly like yours, better efficiency on hill climbs and standing up. A few rides in and still getting comfortable but so far so good
I have ovals Rotors QXL rings..this is an appalling assessment by GCN. she really doesn't know. Changing I admit takes you some more attention, to tuning, but otherwise they work fine. Secondly, they feel better, less fatigue I can't tell that, but definitely spin better, faster, so what's the downside..performance..you certainly won't do worse. She doesn't know..I have ridden them for years I have 8 bikes, and only 2 have ovals, they are my favorites
They had oval chainrings way back in the 90's Manon. I had Ovaltech chainrings on my Shimano 600 crankset on a Trek 8000 in 1993. They're more so for climbing and accelerating in my opinion. I'd say their best use are for hill climbing and criterium racing. They also wear very quickly.
In the last couple of weeks we've had apparently controversial topics like helmets, rotating weight, and now oval chainrings? GCN stoking the holy wars. I like it.
@@MilanSmore well I never rode competitively, but I do live in Yorkshire and the dales were my playground... speaking in past tense because my 6 years of riding were brought to an end in a nasty RTC back in April. But 1.56 is fine for a climbing gear if you have prefer a slower grinding cadence.
just in case anyone's watching this wondering which way is the correct way to undo pedals - they always undo in the direction that they rotate when you ride your bike (so that if they seize, they unscrew rather than snapping off your ankle). in simple terms, rotating the pedal towards the back of the bike unscrews, towards the front of the bike tightens. this means that the non-drive side one has a reverse thread.
I just put an oval ring on my MTB. The first few pedal strokes were weird. Feels fine now. The science behind them isnt particularly convincing, but even if they do nothing, i do like the absolute black oval rings. Machined Aluminium makes my engineering heart go 🤙
I switched to absolute black oval chainrings this year. I mostly do climbing. Shifting is exactly the same as with normal rings. I've never dropped a chain since switching to them while my "old" new FSA rings outright rejected chains. For me pedalling feels smoother but not faster. I would only get them again if they were on discount somewhere. If you're using chainrings from a compentent maker like Shimano it's probably not worth it. Also, GCN sang a different tune about oval rings when Rotor paid them for an AD. Just like how cermamic bearings were great for the period they were paid to show them by ceramic speed before becoming not worth it.
I have an oval chainring on my mtb and i can pedal one gear harder and I am faster on every climb with it. I‘m not sure if I should change to oval on my roadbike too. On high cadence I jump a little bit on my saddle.
I'm riding oval chainrings for 10 years, wouldn't ever go back to round chainrings. I can change my rotor in different positions according the terrain. They also shift perfectly, no drop off
Note on oval chainring and with an N=1 i.e. me doing the testing on myself. I rigged the bike on a Computrainer - old school wheel-on electronically controlled indoor trainer. Set it up for a couple of trials at what was at the time my FTP, around 300 W. The only difference was that in my case heart rate was a little bit lower, around 5 BPM with the oval chainrings (Rotor Q-Rings, 53 teeth). Same cadence, 90 RPM. Same watts since it was set up on ERG. The power readings on the head unit, reading from a Quarq power meter, were not different - about 305 W. These always read a bit higher than the Computrainer, coach mentioned it may be drivetrain and tire losses. It may simply be a calibration thing as well. So in my case there were no higher power peaks at any duration from peak sprints to 1 hour rides. The only difference was that I achieved the same power output at a slightly lower HR. I read much later that there seems an individual difference in response to non-round chainrings depending on muscle fiber composition. That may well be the case. I do like them, and have them in several bikes. I especially find them useful in the very scrunched aero position in TTs. But I don't think they'll necessarily work for everyone. Maybe they're even detrimental! (and for sure the shifter setup is more finicky!)
I have an AbsoluteBlack 44T oval chainring with an e*thirteen 9-42T cassette on the back. Between how oval chainrings feel like you have a gentle tailwind wherever you're going and the climbing ability/top-end speed of the cassette, I have the perfect 1X setup for literally any situation whether on 700c or 650b wheels. I can pull away on group rides and climb anything with ease.
I've also heard they can be hard to set up. If the crest of the oval is aligned with the wrong part of the pedal stroke, can be detrimental to performance.
Actually, some say that oval chainrings don't help much with the power, BUT they tend to get you less tired because you are applying your power at the right place when turning the pedals. So when cycling everyday, you should feel better at the start of each ride and less tired at the end. They should be great in grand tours.
I’ve been using oval chainrings only for climbing purposes. In a 2X11’s I put a 40 teeth in front from a Chinese manufacturer. It makes more sense than the gaps I saw in 55 teeth front that I was installed before.
Yes they've been around for a long while, and like any "hotly contested" question regarding cycling tech (wet/dry chain lube, clipless/flats, helmets/no-helmets), the answer is the difference is negligible so just do what you like
The first time I remember seeing them was around 2009 with the Cervelo Test Team with the Rotor Q Rings. I think Froome used the Osymetric ones. I use ovals on all my bike. Road and mountain. My legs feel better when I use them.
If you have a stuck nut ( in this case a pedal nut) SHOCK is a big help. I would tend to remove the entire crank from the bike and take it so something solid. An anvil, a brick or a vice. Tap the area of the crank around the thread with a light hammer. You might dent the surface a bit which is why a light hammer is best. I use a 125 g hammer. Usually this shock cracks the bond and you don't need too much leverage. In the most extreme situations I have used a blowtorch. The aluminium arm expands more than the steel pedal shaft which again breaks the bond. But LEARN YOUR LESSON. Use anti sieze compound when you reassemble the crank and periodically loosen the pedals as part of routine maintenance.
For the one with the stuck pedals: if the penetrating oil isnt enough, you can try to use a big rubber hammer at the end of your lever. Worked on the most rusted bikes from the scrappyard for me ;)
I have a story about this. I equipped my wife with this in her car and a good wheel wrench. She saw 6 men struggling to undo some wheel nuts one day. So she stopped. Got out the wrench and the mallet. Walked to the car and tap, tap, tap. Loosened each nut in turn. Then went back to her car and drove off to the stares of 6 very uncomfortable men.
I miss John on GCN Tech, I feel the new presenters don't actually know or research what they are talking about anymore and that takes away from the show. GCN definitely needs another tech guru at least for this particular show. I feel that ex pro riders don't necessarily understand tech at the same level. IT would be great to bring in some experts from time to time to help answer some questions and the cycling industry is filled with them
On stuck pedal. Certainly penetration oil but also give it a good old WHACK. a solid whack with a hammer can help knock little bits of oxidation off and suddenly un-seize anything
I’m a Rotor Q-ring convert.... I’m not any faster, not better at climbing, but I do feel less tired when riding, if you play around with the front derailleur adjustment, you can get a good shifting setup *it takes time a patience!!!, your cadence will go up a bit, so keep that in mind, and at first you feel weird when you are in the “dead spot”, but overall I felt that it smooths out my power delivery, as well as cadence.
About seized pedals: During the last ten years of my bike riding, I discovered that I just only need to tighten the pedals slightly, at most 2 or 3Nm. With reasonably good quality of cranks and pedals, this was well adequate. I never had loosen pedals.
For stuck a pedal, also make sure you shift into the big chainring and/or wear gloves, so you don't impale yourself when it finally breaks free. Orienting the wrench so you can squeeze it against the crankarm can give a bit more leverage and control.
Bike glasses tip: don’t put them in your helmet, but at the back of your neck, one of the ‘arms?’ of your glasses under the cloth of your shirt. (Not sure if this helps with long hair)
I love my rotor q rings. I have my big ring 53 oval on both of my bikes. I feel like it has made a huge difference. On group rides, I notice everyone shifts down before climbs. I stay in my gear or shift up and dance easily up.
I use oval chainrings and it has nothing to do with power but everything to do with smoothing out my pedal struck and putting less stress on my knees. Especially on hills.
I have found that the oval chain rings from most brands don't actually mess with shifting at all. Most of them have the shift ramps and pins in the high part of the chain ring. It ends up being timed so that the ideal time to shift is when your foot is at the top (12 of clock position) of the pedal stroke so that it completes the shift as your foot comes down through the power stroke just like regular rings. That is when you are meant to shift anyway. It's only awkward if you shift with feet in the 10 and 4 o clock positions in the middle of a pedal stroke.
RE Stuck pedals; if you have alloy Cranks and pedal axles heat application might work, but might damage some surface finishes. Will damage carbon cranks. Shock freezing spray also could work to expand and contract the components to break the seal.
Another tip for stuck pedals is to apply a bit of heat to the crank arm. This will cause the the metal to expand a little. But be careful obvs. Also shock can help, so try gently tapping wrench with hammer. But torque is generally your friend. But make sure you're turning pedal right way. Also if chain is on make sure you are in the big ring in case you slip.
Oval chainrings won't give you more power, however, they will distribute it differently through your pedal stroke. If you are like me and your pedaling loses momentum on the upper and lower "dead spots", when the cranks are about vertical, then oval chainrings can help you to spin through these dead spots and smoothen your pedal stroke. I found this so much more comfortable, that I'm now running ovals on all of my road bikes.
got 2 bikes, a rodie with 'normal' chainrings and a gravel with absolute black sub compact ovals...feels smoother on ovals specialy when climbing...no problem with shifting whatsoever...
Oval chain rings. I've had oval rings on all my bike for a while now. At the beginning of lockdown I was riding a new bike with round rings. With all that extra time I overdid it a bit in the early season. To the point I couldn't pedal up hills without a lot of knee pain. Then I put my ovals on the new bike. It made all the difference. Probably shouldn't have been riding with the knee pain but at least the ovals made it possible. So I have no idea if they make me faster and am not all that bothered but I like them and so do my knees.
I had Rotor oval Q- rings in 2010. and that was quite new. So probably 2009-2010. There where lots of adjustments to the gears and to try out what positions of the rings that works for you. Not worth it unless you go to professionals with with power meters and everything needed to fit it correctly. At least that's how it was back then.
2:20 Oval chainrings, in my opinion, don't create more watts, but make better use of the watts put to the rear wheel especially during the transition at the tops and bottom of the stroke. The groups I ride with are constantly speeding up or slowing down, with the constant pressure to the rear wheel from the oval I'm able to hold my spot in the group and not get dropped. I have 2 different brands on my bikes, the Rotor brand is more adjustable for your riding application.
For the person with the stuck headset, if the spacers are carbon and the fork is alloy, then they are fused together. Your spacers are going to need to be broken off. You can try to with a set of those big pliers. If that doesn't work, carefully cut a slit with a hacksaw, then pry them off with a screwdriver. The rest should be fine,
Hmmm oval chainrings, I do recall having biopace chainrings on my 105 groupset in the late 80s. Miaculpa, I knew no better, in my defence I did have indexed down tube shifters.
I have local chainrings on my bike and they are fantastic above 80 rpm cadence. If you have power tap pedals they equate for the difference in pedalling motion with the oval rings. I have normal rings on my tt bike and the power stays consistent on both.
Worth mentioning that the left-hand pedal is a left-hand thread, the right-hand pedal being a normal right-hand thread. I believe oval chainrings, when set up correctly, make for a smoother pedal stroke therefore utilising the rider's power in the right place in the stroke, adding benefit. Both should probably have been mentioned maybe? :-)
Using an Absolute Black oval on my single set up 42T, wouldn't use with a double chainset because of the shifting issues. Really like it with the single ring especially climbing out of the saddle & maybe my imagination but my pedal stroke feels smoother.
I have been using Absolute Black ovals for two or three years now and really like them, the pedaling action feels smoother, but maybe that’s just me. I did have an occasional issue with a dropped chain but since fitting a chain catcher that’s problem solved. It’s probably just a marmite thing in reality you either love them or hate them!
Oval chainrings were around long before 2011. I have a set that came as original equipment on my 1988 Trek 560. I don't really notice much difference between them and the round chainrings, and I have never had any shifting problems with the front derailleur (original 105)
I have Absolute Black 46/30 on my gravel bike attached to a 105 crank. Why? Wanted a 46/30 chain set and was no suitable one around when I did it. I have a front derailleur that is suitable for the ratios. Never dropped a chain - is there any difference? Couldn’t say. Works for the bike but was not brought for performance gains - just for cost effectiveness to get this size on a Shimano crank before GRX was invented.
I have been running ovals for a few years. went back and forth once to see if there was a difference (around 2 months back on round chainrings). My suspicion was right in regards to my knee pain but in terms of power etc, nothing worth writing home about. I did notice that my knee issue (torn meniscus for the last 3 yrs) was much better to point of not feeling it on the oval. I am now riding the oval rings and have not had any knee pain since. I think they are definitely worth a try if you have any knee pain but for performance, I doubt there is anything substantial.
R. E. Oval chainrings. Better power transfer if you do not have a smooth pedal stroke (say sprinting or climbing). So not as good for TT I would think.
Q Ring drive. Changed from normal to Q ring a few months ago. I noticed a difference in my legs especially spinning up a road gradient. As in performance I think its the same as using normal cranks. Perhaps if they were a big deal every Tour De France cyclist would have them.
I brush my teeth each morning watching GCN. I love the GCN channel thanks for all y’all do. I just placed my order for a 2021 Giant TCR Advanced Pro 1 Disc. It comes with a Power Meter; my first ever. My question is about the Power Meter. Recently in a portion of the Bike Vault a Presenter mentioned something negative about one of the bikes that was equipped with a Power Meter and Cadence Meter and how it is redundant. Does the Power Meter provide all in one info; Power, cadence, and speed? Or will I still need to purchase the additional speed metering device? I love knowing how fast I am going. I’ve always had a speed sensor on my bike since day one. With my new bike incoming, should I get a speed sensor or let my Wahoo Bolt provide the speed data? Is one more accurate than the other?
Generally, you will get power and cadence relayed to your bike computer or head unit from a crank based or pedal power meter, but not speed (which a bike computer will get from a speed sensor or GPS). I think the bike you are getting will be like that. Some units, like a PowerTap hub and some spider based meters, don't give cadence, I think, but someone else will know for sure.
Hi Manon, great show. I switched to electronic shifting when I bought my new bike. Honestly I don't wanna go back to mechanical shifting on my bike, now my car well I still enjoy double clutching on the down shifts. Also I went with Sram electronic shifting, side note, the rear battery will go flat first, just switch out the front battery to the rear derailer .
Sounds convenient while it's working but I just can't bring myself to make my shifting dependent upon batteries. Having started with friction shifting, indexed shifting is enough of a modern miracle for me :)
I remember when ovals first came out. I think that learning to maintain a very high cadence as well as learning to apply force parallel to the direction of travel of the pedals at EVERY POINT IN THE ROTATION obviates oval chainrings. People assume it is obvious that we can apply the most force when mashing down on the pedals. What is less obvious is that that style of pedaling is still less efficient. You are focusing on using a subset of your leg muscles. With practice and determined muscle training, it is possible to apply equal force all the way around, especially at high cadence. Want proof? When I was stationed a MCAS El Toro (now closed) just south of Irvine, CA, I was 6' tall and weighted less than 130 pounds. My relaxed cadence was about 100 RPM and my top cadence, when powering up a hill or sprinting to the head of the group to relay messages to ride leader (pre cell phones), was around 210 RPM. I calculated and built my gearing specifically to support those high cadences. On bi-weekly rides with the Bicycle Club of Irvine, we would ride up and down the hilliest parts of Pacific Coast Highway. The other members would always power down the hills as fast as they could then stand up in the pedals to mash their way to the top of the next hill. I would coast down the hill then blast up at 210 RPM, passing every single one of them as if they were standing still. And I could do this all day long because I was using every leg muscles equally. And you should have seen my legs at the time. I literally had to lay down on the bed and stretch my 501s over my thighs. Even while the top half of my body still looked like a skeleton.
I find that ovals help/encourage me to pedal smoothly. Mashing the pedals on ovals seems to produce a lot more chain slap than on round rings. For a really steep hill like Hardknott you are just never going to be pedalling a high cadence on road bike, and the slightly reduced effort to get over top dead centre on each revolution "should" be a help. There is certainly no free lunch but my experience is that they do reduce fatigue to a noticeable degree.
@@peterlewis2255 "just never going to be pedaling a high cadence on a road bike" assumes one has not recalculated ones gearing and purchased/built a gearing setup that accommodates high cadence.
I used Osymetric oval rings and like them. Oddly enough, I prefer them on flats and not on hills (my inner ring is a circular and not an oval) because it feels like my momentum isn't consistent on hills and I keep speeding up then slowing down depending what part of the pedal stroke it is. Could also be the inner oval ring was just overly pronounced. I am going 1x soon and going with Rotor ovals. As to studies about performance, It really comes down person to person with regard to biomechanics/bike fit. For those of us who are less flexible (like me) the easing-effect at the top of the pedal stroke is a huge benefit. I can totally see how for flexible people, it feels like they stop producing power when they still could be. I also don't trust most tests because the first few rides using it feel a little off, just neuro-muscular coordination that needs to be set. I doubt they give a week of conditioning for the tests, so doubt most are all that accurate. I believe in the science behind it and that if you lack flexibility, oval would likely be a good fit for you - but if you don't lack flexibility, the "easy spot" will likely feel way off for you.
I put an oval inner chain ring on my Ribble. Living near climbs like the Bwlch/ Rhigos and Devils elbow I did notice a difference - I wasn’t going vertical like Alberto 😱 bit I did see a benefit
Oval chainring have been around for a long time I had one on a mountain bike back in 1993 a Ricardo mountain bike good at low speed not when you're going quickly
I'd like to mess around with the feel of varying chainring diameters, also a fun experiment would be crank lengths that vary throughout the stroke, so you can program them to pedal in a square or oval or teardrop shape, fine tuning to find what is the most biomechanically comfortable or whether it's just the good old fashioned circle. I'm not sure how to do that without some complex cam system or powerful stepper motors that can resist longitudinal forces on the crank from your leg, or maybe a good old frame and rollers
I had oval chainrings on my previous bike up until 2018, the only benifith they gave me was that I didn’t need to pull up as my back muscles where not that good (it took a few km to get used them ) but with the new bike and a correct bikefit I cycle as good on standard round chainrings and have more benefit of the bikefit due to the correct position on the bike
Hi GCN tech team. Are my cleats in the wrong position? I’m new to riding with spd cleats after using flats before, I get a numbness in my toes whilst riding. I currently have them set in the middle #askGCNtech thanks, Oli
And when you install pedals, grease the heck out of the pedal threads and crank threads, you can wipe off the excess after the instillation. You will jump for glee when you need to remove them!
I remember an oval chainring on a mountain bike I rode in about 1983. I didn't really notice much difference (although I was hardly competitive, we were doing a lot of hills in the Pennines).
Dear #AskGCNTech , I need new tires on my 2020 Tarmac and I am thinking about going with the Conti GP5000. But I am considering going from clincher to tubeless (GP5000 TL). If I get the tubeless version and for some reason hate dealing with the sealant, can I keep the tubeless tires on but put in a tube? Or do I have to get the clinchers and sell the tubeless tires?
#AskGCNTech Hi CGN Tech! I’ve been wondering if it’s time to make the move towards disc brakes. I have no issues with my rim brakes at all but I'm afraid to loose money in the near future. It seems a concrete market decision to stop producing rim brakes road bikes very soon (Trek just did that with by new Emonda). Keeping a expensive rim brake bike is becoming a risk for that matter? Will rim brake bikes suffer a faster devaluation from now on? What are your thoughts / advices? Thanks.
Hi good day. I'm running a 105 cogs and Tiagra 10 speed crank. I wonder if there will be an issue if I use it for long term or should I buy a 105 straight groupset for compatibility. My question is why Manon is so gorgeous? #AskGCNTech
@GCN Tech I am using DI2 and Rotor QRings on my bike and can't recognize any bad shifting issues in the front. But with mechanical gears it could be so.
The old oval chainrings question eh ? I am old enough to remember and to have used Shimano Biopace. They got a right slagging back in the day but I found them ok. Really liked the inner 42 for climbing.
I had biopace in the late eighties, and I HATED them. They felt very herky-jerky like I was losing power in the downstroke of the pedal. I understand that current oval chainrings have been designed so that the top of the oval is with the pedal. (Biopace had the top of the oval between the pedal strokes so it didn't help).
osymetric rings are a nightmare for shifting up to the big ring. every ride I have multiple chain loss, and thought i was pretty good at shifting (if that's a thing). Maybe viable if you have a pro mechanic for fine tuning every ride, or you rarely change out of the big ring.. for me, a disaster
I've had oval chainrings for about a month now. At first it felt very awkward and I wasn't sure I was going to like them especially on long climbs. Well, it turns out they're just way better for me especially when the gradient gets really steep (>10%) they're also very comfy when you climb out of the saddle since you can really apply force where you are the strongest. But one caveat is it hurt my quads a lot at first. But I hit an all-time high power average for 1h and it's not just because of power meter calibration, average speed and weight don't lie. As an added bonus I can keep the big ring for longer (up to 6-7 %). I did also notice better shifting performance too, I'm using position 4 on Rotor's system.
Have you got any burning tech questions? Let us know in the comments using #askGCNTech
#askgcntech
Why isn't water used as disc brake fluid... being liquid, it cannot be compressed as well and it is not harmful at all
#askGCNTech
is it possible to save weight by cutting down the seatpost or using less headset spacers and cutting the steerer tube down. ive got mostly carbon parts and i still want to reduce weight. any thoughts?
@@kedarkulkarni3030 It would freeze in cold weather and burst the brake line.
Something about master links. their place in a cyclists life. Reusing them. Removal and re-installation. etc etc
@@johnpazera9145 but adding a bakelite(thermal insulation layer) layer in the hose will do?
I am a recreational rider who lives in a hilly area. I changed to rival chain rings this year and absolutely swear by them. I find the big difference is in climbing, especially out if the saddle. I will convert all my bikes
I have recently switched my bikes to ovals. I love them. It doesn't give you superpowers but pedaling is smoother and more efficient especially on lower cadences like on climbs.
@Monty & @ArtanisKizrath They indeed are great for climbing, I agree. Because I owned ovaltech chainrings in the 90's on a Trek 8000 using a Shimano 600 crankset. They also are great for accelerating. In my opinion.
I just recently changed to ovals and my experience is exactly like yours, better efficiency on hill climbs and standing up. A few rides in and still getting comfortable but so far so good
I have ovals Rotors QXL rings..this is an appalling assessment by GCN. she really doesn't know. Changing I admit takes you some more attention, to tuning, but otherwise they work fine.
Secondly, they feel better, less fatigue I can't tell that, but definitely spin better, faster, so what's the downside..performance..you certainly won't do worse. She doesn't know..I have ridden them for years I have 8 bikes, and only 2 have ovals, they are my favorites
@@jaimeisreal 90s had different orientation than todays
They had oval chainrings way back in the 90's Manon. I had Ovaltech chainrings on my Shimano 600 crankset on a Trek 8000 in 1993. They're more so for climbing and accelerating in my opinion. I'd say their best use are for hill climbing and criterium racing. They also wear very quickly.
In the last couple of weeks we've had apparently controversial topics like helmets, rotating weight, and now oval chainrings? GCN stoking the holy wars. I like it.
Chain lube, clean chain with used transmission fluid and put it back on! Doesn't rust like wax, or the latest snake oil.
@@davidburgess741 Yep, I drip a mix of ATF and acetone on mine. Works great.
It's good for the algorithm
I swear by my 1x10 setup, narrow wide 50t oval chain ring and 11-32 in the back... it hasn't stopped me climbing anything...
one-by maybe a good option for oval.. two chain rings are a disaster for me
Haven't climbed for very long then I assume?
@@MilanSmore well I never rode competitively, but I do live in Yorkshire and the dales were my playground... speaking in past tense because my 6 years of riding were brought to an end in a nasty RTC back in April. But 1.56 is fine for a climbing gear if you have prefer a slower grinding cadence.
I bought a lovely Bianchi in the late 80's, and it had oval chainrings. Loved it. There is a special place reserved for the person who stole it.
just in case anyone's watching this wondering which way is the correct way to undo pedals - they always undo in the direction that they rotate when you ride your bike (so that if they seize, they unscrew rather than snapping off your ankle). in simple terms, rotating the pedal towards the back of the bike unscrews, towards the front of the bike tightens. this means that the non-drive side one has a reverse thread.
I just switched my gravel bike over to oval chain rings and I definitely feel a difference. It feels smoother and I find climbing better on them.
I just put an oval ring on my MTB. The first few pedal strokes were weird. Feels fine now. The science behind them isnt particularly convincing, but even if they do nothing, i do like the absolute black oval rings. Machined Aluminium makes my engineering heart go 🤙
I switched to absolute black oval chainrings this year. I mostly do climbing. Shifting is exactly the same as with normal rings. I've never dropped a chain since switching to them while my "old" new FSA rings outright rejected chains. For me pedalling feels smoother but not faster. I would only get them again if they were on discount somewhere. If you're using chainrings from a compentent maker like Shimano it's probably not worth it.
Also, GCN sang a different tune about oval rings when Rotor paid them for an AD. Just like how cermamic bearings were great for the period they were paid to show them by ceramic speed before becoming not worth it.
I have an oval chainring on my mtb and i can pedal one gear harder and I am faster on every climb with it. I‘m not sure if I should change to oval on my roadbike too. On high cadence I jump a little bit on my saddle.
GCN: "oval chainring came.on the scene in 2011"
Shimano biopace: "am I a joke to you?"
Galen Kehler Everyone wants to forget Biopace 🤦🏼♂️
I was using Shimano biopace in Jamaica back in 1994!
Had oval rings on my first Trek MTB, 1988. Frame is gone, still have the crank! 😂😂😂
My teacher told us that her husband had a bike with oval chainrings stolen. That was around 1982 or so.
to be fair, biopace was a joke to everyone.
2:40 Oval chainrings have been invented several times since at least the 1970s. Maybe a subject for a GCN retro vs modern video?
good idea !
Early Biopace oval chainrings were at a different orientation to modern oval chainrings, but you're right, not new.
@@derekhobbs1102 Yup, Shimano had it backwards. It was harder to push through the dead spot instead of easier.
The L shaped cranks were a bit of a laugh for a while as well .. lol. :).
Yeah, didn't Shimano do Biopace chainrings?
I'm riding oval chainrings for 10 years, wouldn't ever go back to round chainrings. I can change my rotor in different positions according the terrain. They also shift perfectly, no drop off
I see Manon, I click love. Like, i mean.
Simp
Note on oval chainring and with an N=1 i.e. me doing the testing on myself.
I rigged the bike on a Computrainer - old school wheel-on electronically controlled indoor trainer. Set it up for a couple of trials at what was at the time my FTP, around 300 W. The only difference was that in my case heart rate was a little bit lower, around 5 BPM with the oval chainrings (Rotor Q-Rings, 53 teeth). Same cadence, 90 RPM. Same watts since it was set up on ERG. The power readings on the head unit, reading from a Quarq power meter, were not different - about 305 W. These always read a bit higher than the Computrainer, coach mentioned it may be drivetrain and tire losses. It may simply be a calibration thing as well.
So in my case there were no higher power peaks at any duration from peak sprints to 1 hour rides. The only difference was that I achieved the same power output at a slightly lower HR. I read much later that there seems an individual difference in response to non-round chainrings depending on muscle fiber composition. That may well be the case. I do like them, and have them in several bikes. I especially find them useful in the very scrunched aero position in TTs. But I don't think they'll necessarily work for everyone. Maybe they're even detrimental! (and for sure the shifter setup is more finicky!)
I have an AbsoluteBlack 44T oval chainring with an e*thirteen 9-42T cassette on the back. Between how oval chainrings feel like you have a gentle tailwind wherever you're going and the climbing ability/top-end speed of the cassette, I have the perfect 1X setup for literally any situation whether on 700c or 650b wheels. I can pull away on group rides and climb anything with ease.
Oval chain rings didn’t come in 2011. And the answer was, “try them and let us know”. Such sage advice.
I've also heard they can be hard to set up. If the crest of the oval is aligned with the wrong part of the pedal stroke, can be detrimental to performance.
Indeed: I already had a ‘Biopace’ oval chainring on my 1990 MBK racing bike when I was 14...
Actually, some say that oval chainrings don't help much with the power, BUT they tend to get you less tired because you are applying your power at the right place when turning the pedals. So when cycling everyday, you should feel better at the start of each ride and less tired at the end. They should be great in grand tours.
Yeah, no useful advice at all really. Some people like them, some not... Tell us your opinion below. Gee, thanks.
@@bvdnoort they're not a true oval though
I’ve been using oval chainrings only for climbing purposes. In a 2X11’s I put a 40 teeth in front from a Chinese manufacturer. It makes more sense than the gaps I saw in 55 teeth front that I was installed before.
Oval chainrings started well before Froome and Wiggins. See also Dan Lloyd's Cervelo Test Team and other early Rotor's sponsored riders
Yes they've been around for a long while, and like any "hotly contested" question regarding cycling tech (wet/dry chain lube, clipless/flats, helmets/no-helmets), the answer is the difference is negligible so just do what you like
The first time I remember seeing them was around 2009 with the Cervelo Test Team with the Rotor Q Rings. I think Froome used the Osymetric ones. I use ovals on all my bike. Road and mountain. My legs feel better when I use them.
Bobby julich used them in the early 2000s. But zoomers are like who is that
If you have a stuck nut ( in this case a pedal nut) SHOCK is a big help. I would tend to remove the entire crank from the bike and take it so something solid. An anvil, a brick or a vice. Tap the area of the crank around the thread with a light hammer. You might dent the surface a bit which is why a light hammer is best. I use a 125 g hammer. Usually this shock cracks the bond and you don't need too much leverage. In the most extreme situations I have used a blowtorch. The aluminium arm expands more than the steel pedal shaft which again breaks the bond. But LEARN YOUR LESSON. Use anti sieze compound when you reassemble the crank and periodically loosen the pedals as part of routine maintenance.
For the one with the stuck pedals: if the penetrating oil isnt enough, you can try to use a big rubber hammer at the end of your lever. Worked on the most rusted bikes from the scrappyard for me ;)
I have a story about this. I equipped my wife with this in her car and a good wheel wrench. She saw 6 men struggling to undo some wheel nuts one day. So she stopped. Got out the wrench and the mallet. Walked to the car and tap, tap, tap. Loosened each nut in turn. Then went back to her car and drove off to the stares of 6 very uncomfortable men.
I miss John on GCN Tech, I feel the new presenters don't actually know or research what they are talking about anymore and that takes away from the show.
GCN definitely needs another tech guru at least for this particular show. I feel that ex pro riders don't necessarily understand tech at the same level.
IT would be great to bring in some experts from time to time to help answer some questions and the cycling industry is filled with them
Wow how informative I’m glad you spent the entire video talking about unrelated shit.
Stuck pedals? Won't budge? Put the crank/pedal in a bowl of ice for ten mins. Then try again. It worked for me.
Go oval nad never look back! I love them so much
On stuck pedal. Certainly penetration oil but also give it a good old WHACK. a solid whack with a hammer can help knock little bits of oxidation off and suddenly un-seize anything
I’m a Rotor Q-ring convert.... I’m not any faster, not better at climbing, but I do feel less tired when riding, if you play around with the front derailleur adjustment, you can get a good shifting setup *it takes time a patience!!!, your cadence will go up a bit, so keep that in mind, and at first you feel weird when you are in the “dead spot”, but overall I felt that it smooths out my power delivery, as well as cadence.
About seized pedals:
During the last ten years of my bike riding, I discovered that I just only need to tighten the pedals slightly, at most 2 or 3Nm. With reasonably good quality of cranks and pedals, this was well adequate. I never had loosen pedals.
My fav GCN presenter, Manon 😍
For stuck a pedal, also make sure you shift into the big chainring and/or wear gloves, so you don't impale yourself when it finally breaks free. Orienting the wrench so you can squeeze it against the crankarm can give a bit more leverage and control.
Bike glasses tip: don’t put them in your helmet, but at the back of your neck, one of the ‘arms?’ of your glasses under the cloth of your shirt. (Not sure if this helps with long hair)
I love my rotor q rings. I have my big ring 53 oval on both of my bikes. I feel like it has made a huge difference. On group rides, I notice everyone shifts down before climbs. I stay in my gear or shift up and dance easily up.
Thank you so much for answering my question 👍👍👍
I use oval chainrings and it has nothing to do with power but everything to do with smoothing out my pedal struck and putting less stress on my knees. Especially on hills.
I have found that the oval chain rings from most brands don't actually mess with shifting at all. Most of them have the shift ramps and pins in the high part of the chain ring. It ends up being timed so that the ideal time to shift is when your foot is at the top (12 of clock position) of the pedal stroke so that it completes the shift as your foot comes down through the power stroke just like regular rings. That is when you are meant to shift anyway. It's only awkward if you shift with feet in the 10 and 4 o clock positions in the middle of a pedal stroke.
FYI Canyon model frames are di2 or mechanical specific. It is unlikely that the person can move from 105 to Ultegra di2 without doing some drilling.
RE Stuck pedals; if you have alloy Cranks and pedal axles heat application might work, but might damage some surface finishes. Will damage carbon cranks. Shock freezing spray also could work to expand and contract the components to break the seal.
Never been so early on a gcn vid 😂👌
Another tip for stuck pedals is to apply a bit of heat to the crank arm. This will cause the the metal to expand a little. But be careful obvs. Also shock can help, so try gently tapping wrench with hammer. But torque is generally your friend. But make sure you're turning pedal right way. Also if chain is on make sure you are in the big ring in case you slip.
Oval chainrings won't give you more power, however, they will distribute it differently through your pedal stroke.
If you are like me and your pedaling loses momentum on the upper and lower "dead spots", when the cranks are about vertical, then oval chainrings can help you to spin through these dead spots and smoothen your pedal stroke. I found this so much more comfortable, that I'm now running ovals on all of my road bikes.
im going for 52/36 - 11/28 for my road ..just wait for the chainrings to arrive
got 2 bikes, a rodie with 'normal' chainrings and a gravel with absolute black sub compact ovals...feels smoother on ovals specialy when climbing...no problem with shifting whatsoever...
Oval chain rings. I've had oval rings on all my bike for a while now. At the beginning of lockdown I was riding a new bike with round rings. With all that extra time I overdid it a bit in the early season. To the point I couldn't pedal up hills without a lot of knee pain. Then I put my ovals on the new bike. It made all the difference. Probably shouldn't have been riding with the knee pain but at least the ovals made it possible. So I have no idea if they make me faster and am not all that bothered but I like them and so do my knees.
I cycled from London to Istanbul on oval chainrings in about 1992. The chainrings were the least of my problems
I had Rotor oval Q- rings in 2010.
and that was quite new.
So probably 2009-2010.
There where lots of adjustments to the gears and to try out what positions of the rings that works for you.
Not worth it unless you go to professionals with with power meters and everything needed to fit it correctly.
At least that's how it was back then.
Got my pedals off thanks! Sprayed wd40 on them for a few days then they came off.
2:20 Oval chainrings, in my opinion, don't create more watts, but make better use of the watts put to the rear wheel especially during the transition at the tops and bottom of the stroke. The groups I ride with are constantly speeding up or slowing down, with the constant pressure to the rear wheel from the oval I'm able to hold my spot in the group and not get dropped. I have 2 different brands on my bikes, the Rotor brand is more adjustable for your riding application.
For the person with the stuck headset, if the spacers are carbon and the fork is alloy, then they are fused together. Your spacers are going to need to be broken off. You can try to with a set of those big pliers. If that doesn't work, carefully cut a slit with a hacksaw, then pry them off with a screwdriver. The rest should be fine,
Hmmm oval chainrings, I do recall having biopace chainrings on my 105 groupset in the late 80s.
Miaculpa, I knew no better, in my defence I did have indexed down tube shifters.
Biopace were not great. They were oval the wrong way. Modern ones are designed correctly.
You were rockin' the latest in future retro tech :)
For seized pedals. An old trick to be used on alloy only!!! Heat it with a blowtorch.
I have local chainrings on my bike and they are fantastic above 80 rpm cadence. If you have power tap pedals they equate for the difference in pedalling motion with the oval rings. I have normal rings on my tt bike and the power stays consistent on both.
'Lefty Loosey, Righty Tighty' only works for the Right side pedal. Reverse it for Left side pedals.
Worth mentioning that the left-hand pedal is a left-hand thread, the right-hand pedal being a normal right-hand thread. I believe oval chainrings, when set up correctly, make for a smoother pedal stroke therefore utilising the rider's power in the right place in the stroke, adding benefit. Both should probably have been mentioned maybe? :-)
How are the hydration and gels getting into that guy's headset??? I think he's doing it wrong 😆😆
Messy eating lol
So the bike is staying hydrated and gels for energy of the bike
Reminds me of Family Guy when peter tries to feed beans to the TV
Using an Absolute Black oval on my single set up 42T, wouldn't use with a double chainset because of the shifting issues. Really like it with the single ring especially climbing out of the saddle & maybe my imagination but my pedal stroke feels smoother.
Hey Manon, I'm your BIGGEST fan!
Oval chainrings have been around for a VERY long time. Shimano Biopace
I have been using Absolute Black ovals for two or three years now and really like them, the pedaling action feels smoother, but maybe that’s just me. I did have an occasional issue with a dropped chain but since fitting a chain catcher that’s problem solved. It’s probably just a marmite thing in reality you either love them or hate them!
Oval chainrings were around long before 2011. I have a set that came as original equipment on my 1988 Trek 560. I don't really notice much difference between them and the round chainrings, and I have never had any shifting problems with the front derailleur (original 105)
For pedal removal the left side threads are reversed. When installing use anti seize coating on the threads.
I have Absolute Black 46/30 on my gravel bike attached to a 105 crank. Why? Wanted a 46/30 chain set and was no suitable one around when I did it. I have a front derailleur that is suitable for the ratios. Never dropped a chain - is there any difference? Couldn’t say. Works for the bike but was not brought for performance gains - just for cost effectiveness to get this size on a Shimano crank before GRX was invented.
She's a Manon baby!
I have been running ovals for a few years. went back and forth once to see if there was a difference (around 2 months back on round chainrings). My suspicion was right in regards to my knee pain but in terms of power etc, nothing worth writing home about. I did notice that my knee issue (torn meniscus for the last 3 yrs) was much better to point of not feeling it on the oval. I am now riding the oval rings and have not had any knee pain since. I think they are definitely worth a try if you have any knee pain but for performance, I doubt there is anything substantial.
The Shimano biopace is hands down the best chainrings I have ever used.
R. E. Oval chainrings. Better power transfer if you do not have a smooth pedal stroke (say sprinting or climbing). So not as good for TT I would think.
I have a question. Is it technically possible to just change the big chain ring and let the inner one be the original shimano chain ring?
I see KOO have an accessory that attaches to the stem which holds a cyclist glasses.
Great tip! Ordering one now!
Q Ring drive. Changed from normal to Q ring a few months ago. I noticed a difference in my legs especially spinning up a road gradient. As in performance I think its the same as using normal cranks. Perhaps if they were a big deal every Tour De France cyclist would have them.
I brush my teeth each morning watching GCN. I love the GCN channel thanks for all y’all do. I just placed my order for a 2021 Giant TCR Advanced Pro 1 Disc. It comes with a Power Meter; my first ever. My question is about the Power Meter. Recently in a portion of the Bike Vault a Presenter mentioned something negative about one of the bikes that was equipped with a Power Meter and Cadence Meter and how it is redundant. Does the Power Meter provide all in one info; Power, cadence, and speed? Or will I still need to purchase the additional speed metering device? I love knowing how fast I am going. I’ve always had a speed sensor on my bike since day one. With my new bike incoming, should I get a speed sensor or let my Wahoo Bolt provide the speed data? Is one more accurate than the other?
Generally, you will get power and cadence relayed to your bike computer or head unit from a crank based or pedal power meter, but not speed (which a bike computer will get from a speed sensor or GPS). I think the bike you are getting will be like that. Some units, like a PowerTap hub and some spider based meters, don't give cadence, I think, but someone else will know for sure.
Which chainring is best for cargo bikes (what about electric cargo bike)?
i’m on 11-28t 105 cassette, what oval teeth should i go with, 52t ? 50t or anything below..i’m on single 105 crank🙏🏼thanks guys!
Hi Manon, great show. I switched to electronic shifting when I bought my new bike. Honestly I don't wanna go back to mechanical shifting on my bike, now my car well I still enjoy double clutching on the down shifts. Also I went with Sram electronic shifting, side note, the rear battery will go flat first, just switch out the front battery to the rear derailer .
Sounds convenient while it's working but I just can't bring myself to make my shifting dependent upon batteries. Having started with friction shifting, indexed shifting is enough of a modern miracle for me :)
I remember when ovals first came out. I think that learning to maintain a very high cadence as well as learning to apply force parallel to the direction of travel of the pedals at EVERY POINT IN THE ROTATION obviates oval chainrings. People assume it is obvious that we can apply the most force when mashing down on the pedals. What is less obvious is that that style of pedaling is still less efficient. You are focusing on using a subset of your leg muscles. With practice and determined muscle training, it is possible to apply equal force all the way around, especially at high cadence.
Want proof? When I was stationed a MCAS El Toro (now closed) just south of Irvine, CA, I was 6' tall and weighted less than 130 pounds. My relaxed cadence was about 100 RPM and my top cadence, when powering up a hill or sprinting to the head of the group to relay messages to ride leader (pre cell phones), was around 210 RPM. I calculated and built my gearing specifically to support those high cadences. On bi-weekly rides with the Bicycle Club of Irvine, we would ride up and down the hilliest parts of Pacific Coast Highway. The other members would always power down the hills as fast as they could then stand up in the pedals to mash their way to the top of the next hill. I would coast down the hill then blast up at 210 RPM, passing every single one of them as if they were standing still. And I could do this all day long because I was using every leg muscles equally. And you should have seen my legs at the time. I literally had to lay down on the bed and stretch my 501s over my thighs. Even while the top half of my body still looked like a skeleton.
I find that ovals help/encourage me to pedal smoothly. Mashing the pedals on ovals seems to produce a lot more chain slap than on round rings. For a really steep hill like Hardknott you are just never going to be pedalling a high cadence on road bike, and the slightly reduced effort to get over top dead centre on each revolution "should" be a help. There is certainly no free lunch but my experience is that they do reduce fatigue to a noticeable degree.
@@peterlewis2255 "just never going to be pedaling a high cadence on a road bike" assumes one has not recalculated ones gearing and purchased/built a gearing setup that accommodates high cadence.
I used Osymetric oval rings and like them. Oddly enough, I prefer them on flats and not on hills (my inner ring is a circular and not an oval) because it feels like my momentum isn't consistent on hills and I keep speeding up then slowing down depending what part of the pedal stroke it is. Could also be the inner oval ring was just overly pronounced. I am going 1x soon and going with Rotor ovals.
As to studies about performance, It really comes down person to person with regard to biomechanics/bike fit. For those of us who are less flexible (like me) the easing-effect at the top of the pedal stroke is a huge benefit. I can totally see how for flexible people, it feels like they stop producing power when they still could be. I also don't trust most tests because the first few rides using it feel a little off, just neuro-muscular coordination that needs to be set. I doubt they give a week of conditioning for the tests, so doubt most are all that accurate. I believe in the science behind it and that if you lack flexibility, oval would likely be a good fit for you - but if you don't lack flexibility, the "easy spot" will likely feel way off for you.
I put an oval inner chain ring on my Ribble. Living near climbs like the Bwlch/ Rhigos and Devils elbow I did notice a difference - I wasn’t going vertical like Alberto 😱 bit I did see a benefit
Oval chainring have been around for a long time I had one on a mountain bike back in 1993 a Ricardo mountain bike good at low speed not when you're going quickly
I'd like to mess around with the feel of varying chainring diameters, also a fun experiment would be crank lengths that vary throughout the stroke, so you can program them to pedal in a square or oval or teardrop shape, fine tuning to find what is the most biomechanically comfortable or whether it's just the good old fashioned circle. I'm not sure how to do that without some complex cam system or powerful stepper motors that can resist longitudinal forces on the crank from your leg, or maybe a good old frame and rollers
Great value for your money
I had oval chainrings on my previous bike up until 2018, the only benifith they gave me was that I didn’t need to pull up as my back muscles where not that good (it took a few km to get used them ) but with the new bike and a correct bikefit I cycle as good on standard round chainrings and have more benefit of the bikefit due to the correct position on the bike
Hi GCN tech team. Are my cleats in the wrong position? I’m new to riding with spd cleats after using flats before, I get a numbness in my toes whilst riding. I currently have them set in the middle #askGCNtech thanks, Oli
And when you install pedals, grease the heck out of the pedal threads and crank threads, you can wipe off the excess after the instillation. You will jump for glee when you need to remove them!
I remember an oval chainring on a mountain bike I rode in about 1983. I didn't really notice much difference (although I was hardly competitive, we were doing a lot of hills in the Pennines).
Dear #AskGCNTech , I need new tires on my 2020 Tarmac and I am thinking about going with the Conti GP5000. But I am considering going from clincher to tubeless (GP5000 TL). If I get the tubeless version and for some reason hate dealing with the sealant, can I keep the tubeless tires on but put in a tube? Or do I have to get the clinchers and sell the tubeless tires?
#AskGCNTech Hi CGN Tech! I’ve been wondering if it’s time to make the move towards disc brakes. I have no issues with my rim brakes at all but I'm afraid to loose money in the near future. It seems a concrete market decision to stop producing rim brakes road bikes very soon (Trek just did that with by new Emonda). Keeping a expensive rim brake bike is becoming a risk for that matter? Will rim brake bikes suffer a faster devaluation from now on? What are your thoughts / advices? Thanks.
#AskGCNThech Why is it that the professional's more styf and strangely shaped seats are more comfortable than the big cousiny and soft one's?
Wear a GCN cap (casquette if you are French) to keep your glasses out of your hair. 😉
Yeah, that's probably the best solution, as long as it isn't to hot outside!
I'm still waiting for Manon's gold chain
Oval chain rings came out in 2011? I've been using them since 1985!
Yes, shimano biopace... and I feel sorry for your legs.
If I have a 2x9 and I change only the big front sprocket to oval will I have a problem?
my road bike chain rings are 50-34T... if i change it to oval chain ring 52-36T, do i need to change also the chain? thanks
How is what you showed different from a SHIMANO Alfine 11-Speed Internal Geared Bicycle Disc Brake Hub - SG-S7001-11?
I love my AbsoluteBlack chain ring....the gold one!🤜🏻
With the last question with the hair under helmet wear a cap under the helmet that will stop the problem
Hi good day. I'm running a 105 cogs and Tiagra 10 speed crank. I wonder if there will be an issue if I use it for long term or should I buy a 105 straight groupset for compatibility. My question is why Manon is so gorgeous? #AskGCNTech
Manon,you have the most beautiful eyes
@GCN Tech I am using DI2 and Rotor QRings on my bike and can't recognize any bad shifting issues in the front. But with mechanical gears it could be so.
The old oval chainrings question eh ? I am old enough to remember and to have used Shimano Biopace. They got a right slagging back in the day but I found them ok. Really liked the inner 42 for climbing.
2:35 Came in 2011/2012 on the scene? Exactly, those Biopace one's are probably from the mid 80s!
I too remember the bio pace. Never bought into the hype, after a very few years they were debunked.
I had Biopace also. They came on the bike I bought. I didn't really notice a difference personally.
I had biopace in the late eighties, and I HATED them. They felt very herky-jerky like I was losing power in the downstroke of the pedal. I understand that current oval chainrings have been designed so that the top of the oval is with the pedal. (Biopace had the top of the oval between the pedal strokes so it didn't help).
@@carl_the_newt7883 Couldn't you rotate them ?
Carlos Sastre won 2008 Tour de France riding with Rotor's oval chainring. You forgot to mention that...
osymetric rings are a nightmare for shifting up to the big ring. every ride I have multiple chain loss, and thought i was pretty good at shifting (if that's a thing). Maybe viable if you have a pro mechanic for fine tuning every ride, or you rarely change out of the big ring.. for me, a disaster
I've had oval chainrings for about a month now. At first it felt very awkward and I wasn't sure I was going to like them especially on long climbs. Well, it turns out they're just way better for me especially when the gradient gets really steep (>10%) they're also very comfy when you climb out of the saddle since you can really apply force where you are the strongest. But one caveat is it hurt my quads a lot at first. But I hit an all-time high power average for 1h and it's not just because of power meter calibration, average speed and weight don't lie. As an added bonus I can keep the big ring for longer (up to 6-7 %). I did also notice better shifting performance too, I'm using position 4 on Rotor's system.
You can't compare big ring though, that'sike saying I spend more time in the 52 than the 53, so I must be faster!