Ron and Joseph, Laurel and Hardy, Abbott and Costello; Y'All have entered the Pantheon of duplex teamwork that survives every trial. Keep up the Good Work!
Winchester Model 70 FWT with a red dot sight is quick and easy to live with in the woods, especially in .308 or .30-06. The Leupold FX-II 2.5x20mm is also great on that rifle.
I live in North East Ontario Canada. No deer, no elk, a few caribou but no season. We have an overabundance of black bears, and a healthy moose population (I only hunt moose). On our acreage, when I walk the dogs, I usually take my 12 gauge with ssg and slug mix - I took the plug out. Or I take my old (1959 ) Win 30-30 with my very potent reloads. But when hunting moose, I use both 308 Win and 300 Win Mag.
Down here in Mississippi we have a primitive season ( single shot, straight walled cartridges). I cant remember the last time I saw a grizzly down here but we have a ton of 45-70's.,🤣👍
Gosh I love it when both of you Joseph and Ron share the program!! You both bring so much great information to the table and both of you just add so much! Your love and enthusiasm for the shooting sports and experience. Many thanks to you both!
I have a Puma M92 in 454 Casull that been smoothed out. I love that gun and it’s great for security with hard cast bullets. I carry it in the brush for safety from predators off all types.
I have been thinking about one of those. I might never loaded with 454 casull but moderately Stout 45 Colt will handle any black bear or deer in my area. Moose or elk would be pushing it a little even under 100 yds. If a Selkirk Grizzly Vista...
Ron demonstrated the British rapid bole drill, something I learned on my 03-A3 Springfield. Remember that the British were the last major world power to drop bolt action rifles, the SMLE. A British rifleman could put as many AIMED shots on target as the average guy on a semiauto rifle.
I think it can’t be said enough how svelte a nice lever gun is. For “big” cartridges I’ve got 416 rem, 45-70, and then 30-06. I think personally I’d opt for either the 30-06 or the 416 rem over the 45-70 for a planned hunting situation. What I have considered though is bringing the 45-70 just to tote for the pack out. I think my Henry weighs about 7 lbs and it’s super easy to carry and obviously very handy with its 18” barrel. My handload is a 405 speer at 1850 ft/sec. I’m sure it would be fine for just about anything in a reactionary type situation and it’s not brutal to shoot
I have a Winchester 94AE lever action guide gun chambered in 44 Mag with a 16” barrel. I typically bring with me on black bear hunts. Pretty light and compact and holds 9 in the tube mag. As an AZ bear hunter I’m typically shooting cross canyon with a bolt rifle, but getting into the bottom of canyons in thick brush country to find downed bears that lever action is money. 100% worth carrying the extra couple lbs. great video as always 👌🏼
There's a reason the 45-70 is still around 150 years after it's induction, it's a "sledge hammer" on big game. A Marlin 95 will handle +P loads, and as pointed out, points well, is quick to shoot within it's effective range. I owned a 95 Marlin (made in 1980's) that I shot 300gr JHP moving 2,200 fps. And yes I was more interested in performance than case life and putting down whatever may desire to eat me.
People are so impressed with easily hyped energy numbers and velocity. .45-70 doesn't need either on those fronts to plow through bison and moose and tree trunks and keep going. It's so underestimated the sort of wounding the big slug can do without the "speedy spear tipped bullets."
I’ve never tried 300 grain slugs in my 45-70. They sound almost interesting enough to try. I’m running 400 grains at 2000 fps at the moment. I can say, without a doubt, that this combination is no joke.
Ron, I am so impressed - quite some time ago I commented on one of your shows where you misused better and best. I said better of two and best of three or more. You replied that you had taken note - well, lo and behold, you did, you have and in this show you clearly demonstrated your understanding by nailing it!!! Well done mate.
45-70 for bears over bait, or hound hunting. 300 win mag to 375 h&h for spot and stalk. 416 rem. to 458 lott for coastal brownies, if you can handle the extra weight and recoil. Boom! It's settled.
My choice would be a Remington 7600 in .35 Whelen or .358 Win for a shorter action. With this rig I have enough gun for both brush busting or go longer range.
Great choices! My dedicated black bear rifle is a Ruger American Predator chambered in the brush busting 358 Winchester! I consistently get half inch groups with Buffalo Bore ammo and one inch groups with Hornady! I'm going to start reloading.. and my choice will be a 225 grain Nosler Partition. That's the bullet.. that I used to use in my 350 Remington Magnum 😊 I can tell you first hand.. the first shot was all that I needed with either cartridge 😊
@blackie1of4 Fabulous choice. And reloading can be a lot of fun. I think your choice of the 225 grainer is perfect. The .358 Win is a wonderful round and totally under appreciated. I recently bought a Winchester Big Bore 94 in .444 Marlin. It's a unique experience shooting it. It also would make the bear grade rifle category, too.
@@Mark-uq9kmthanks brother I love the 444 Marlin! Not so much the Remington factory ammo for it! Doesn't do the job especially on black bear! Had a hunter get attacked by a wounded black bear a few years ago. Probably ten miles from my house! The bear laid silently hidden.. once he got close.. a few steps away.. it attacked him 😞 Lucky for him.. it didn't have much fight left! A lot of scratches and a few bites later.. and the constant ribbing from his friends! He shot it five times with those Remington rounds! Hornady puts out a better load :)
@blackie1of4 I started reloading my own T4 ammo. I use a Sierra 240 grain Sportsman bullet which is technically a pistol bullet. I fill the large hollow point with JB Weld and this turns it into a significant rifle bullet. The Sportsman is a pretty tough bullet, regardless. I love the carbine configuration of the Win 94 Big Bore with the 20'' barrel.
That was a great video guys. Took my fist bear with a bolt action, but being in thick woods almost exclusively I switched to a short 45/70 years ago with handloads tailored it doesn’t get any better. Owning both is the best option like you said. Just think back in the day when Elmer Keith and Townsend whelen considered 2-1.5” groups phenomenal at 100 for hunting. Those lever actions do the same with correct loads which wasn’t much of a reality back in their day with limited optics and ammo
I found bolt action faster to reload than lever guns. When I open the bolt, can't go into battery because follower is stopping bolt travel, I grab a stripper clip and stick it in the guide and push cartridges into magazine, close the bolt. In the Army, on the Garand, we had something called the Murphy drill (Murphy's law, Anything that can go wrong generally will, and usually at the worst possible moment."). We started with one cartridge in the rifle. We fire, bolt locks open. We are timed on how fast we can push in a fresh clip and engage the next target.
Clip chargers work great on M-1903 Springfields, Model 721 Remingtons, and every other military or commercial bolt-action with clip-charger slots milled into the receiver bridge, but they're useless on modern commercial bolt-action rifles that lack this feature or have it neutered via mounting an optic over the receiver. Otherwise, I've found bolt actions to be a "one round at a time" slow to load as my Marlin 336 is.
Double Rifle... 375H&H for me. Faster than both, accurate enough out to 200 yards for a Bear size target. Shorter with a better point and plenty of horse power.... Can't beat it.
My Winchester 1895 in .405 Win is my most reliable gun I own. Much more reliable than any bolt action I find as you can cycle it slow or fast and from any angle including upside down. It also holds 4+1.
I enjoyed this video. Yes, you can run a bolt gun quickly with practice. I shot a bolt gun in NRA high power matches for many years I had to learn to slow down! I own two Marlin 1895 45-70s, one the full size rifle, the other a guide gun with a factory muzzle brake or compensator on the barrel. The guide gun has less muzzle flip and as you said more noise. I would have to flip a coin on which one I would take on a bear hunt.
My two cents would be the 45/70 shooting 405gr flat nose cast lead. I run them at a smoking 1250fps. The weird thing is you get better penetration down at those levels. My load and T/C Encore barrel was used to kill a big black bear in Idaho with one shot. Everything I’ve ever shot dropped where it was standing, from wild pigs, raccoons, and a dandy wide 8 at 169 yds.
everyone forgets about the browning lever rifle (blr), available in several cartridges up to 30-06 these days, but formerly (not that long ago) available in several magnum loads.
I have a Rossi R92 in .454 Casull, load 10 rounds total of Buffalo Bore hot rounds and it will absolutely do the job and will do a number on your shoulder.
Here in Ohio we are relegated to straight wall cartridges for deer, so my 45/70 guide gun is what I would take since I practice with it every deer season. I would use my 405 gr. hard cast flat points at around 1550 out of my 18" barrel. I use the 300gr JHP at 1800 on deer for the long shots. 100 yds is about the max that I can see where I hunt anyways. Just have to carry some bacon around in the alser thickets and let the bear find me.
Good call on the cast bullets. At least the 45-70 folks can cast and make their own bullets literally from scratch. Is Ohio even an bear hunting state? I'm in the same state as Ron and there's bears but I don't run across them often.
Thanks for a great video! I always enjoy different opinions from a well informed perspective, and that’s certainly where Ron is coming from. I shoot everything with my 300 win mag and hand load my own rounds, but that’s just what works for me and I’m confident in its ability. I love those Barnes bullets and I don’t have a single bad thing to say about them. I currently use a Hammer hunter bullet in 196g, because a couple years ago you simply could not get the Barnes bullets I was accustomed to shooting. I’ve recovered both bullets and I have to say I’m sticking with the Hammer bullets however reluctant I was to switch. Thanks again and happy hunting guys!!
I've got both bolt action & lever action for bear I've got the Henary 45-70gov shooting 405gr hard cast hand loaded bullets & I've got a 338Lapua Magnum 300gr hand loaded with Lapua brass
Great Topic! I’ve owned 2 Winchester Model 94 30-30’s And 3 Winchester Model 70 338 Win Magnums, As Well As Other Models In Over 40 Years Of Hunting In Northern Alberta Canada. Looking To Upgrade To The 45-70 For Brush . Best Of Both Worlds
A cheap custom option for a DG lever is the Winchester 1895 converted to 9.3x62. Since that cartridge is similar to the 30-06 to the extent that it can be formed from it (not recommended) it fits 1895 rifles designed for the 30-06, if they are re-bored, or re-barreled. Then you really have something...
A Remington pump-action in 30-06 or, better yet, 35 Whelen, would be better still than any conventional lever gun. Just a shame they’re so hard to find.
I think for me the defining factor of a good bolt action is that it at least lets you run it hard well. But preferably it prefers and excels when run hard
The Mauser M18 platform offers a removable magazine and comes in many different calibers. I certainly love mine. I installed iron sights on mine to make it more versatile.
Very wise decision to add Bonadict to the videos. I have a Tikka T3X lite roughtech in 30-06. With a Barnes Vortx 150gr, I can do a 2” group offhand at 100 yards. I’ll add this: what has helped me with flinching is focusing on exhaling before pulling the trigger and making sure my trigger pull doesn’t pull the barrel down.
That’s because he only looks at factory loads that are suitable for the older firearms chambered in 45-70 but like many people have stated newer rifles that can handle increased pressures you can load up 45-70 to be a real cannon
@@imperialwhovian3461 Correct. And I do think Ron knows that fair comparisons are between things of like-potential, not between something loaded weakly vs. something loaded near full potential.
That's why straight pulls like the Blaser R8 are so popular for "wehrhaftes Wild" in Europe. Big oompf cartridge with a long barrel for the practical length of the rifle and very fast action.
@RonSpomerOutdoor Hi Ron, thank you very much. I am Europe though so I'd rather pay the karma forward to someone in the US to not waste money and resources.
I DID USE.. a 45/70 for Alaskan Coastal Brown bear..my guide carried 375 Alaskan, bolt.. our encounter on Barenoff island at 20-25 yds a few yrs ago. NO FEAR, CONFIDENCE in my Marlin & 420gr. Buffalo Boar ammo..No lung shot, bear runs hes gone. Game over in Alaska when you draw blood. So my 1st round, right into the shoulder, stop the run, 2nd by guide right over the eye exit behind ear, and still required 4 more 45/70 ASAP.. followups.. My Brown squares at 9'7" 1000 lbs. Scavengers , next day 50% gone. Bottom line 45/70 great to 200+ yds. For deer in 180gr is still overkill. Deer / black bear..180gr any distance to 500Y with a Bolt action as long as you practice. Thats why i use a Rem 700, 180 PSP. Good luck....to all
Well I had an uncle would prove you all wrong lol. He has taken everything in the US with a 30-06 remington game master which is a pump. He was avid hunter all over the US
Hi Ron, i have a middle of the road compromise that is never talked about. The Remington model 7600 in 35 Whalen. Cut the barrel back to 20 in, and you have a rig that handles fast in the brush, and will shoot to 300 yds. in one gun. A low power scope, or a peep site to 200 yards, has it all. what do you think. Love to hear your response, Carl.
I don"t know. I enjoy hunting and balistics, but the ins and outs of all this digital info. i have to go slow. Just my way. Good hearing from you, anyway if you find out please drop me a line your friend Carl.
I hate to do this but I have to correct one thing. Active custom molded ear protection is a great solution, it helps you hear better low ("normal") sounds but it will "kill" loud sounds like pew is. Those ear plugs are pricey but when you consider how much we pay for guns, ammo, and other gear, we should spend money on good ear protection. Every pew is a permanent damage to our ears. This was one of rare occasions when I had to correct you. Love watching your shows.
5 times this summer I had a Ruger/Marlin 45-70 in my hands at the cabin west of Anchorage watching to see what the bears were going to do and all five times I wished I had my scoped 375 bolt mostly because I know exactly what it will do. A low velocity short bullet wasn’t as confidence aspiring as I’d have liked. Personally I’d have rather had a Garand than that lever action. Pretty handy rifle however but not enough experience with it to feel confident. I have used old Winchester lever 45-60 on smaller black bears which wasn’t all that impressive 🤷🏽♂️
For close range speed, I take Dad's older Remington 750 Carbine in 35 Whelen. For open range I'll take my Sako AV in 9.3x62, that 286 grain bullet penetrates incredibly.
I love my 358 BLR and it is pure poison on elk, I have never had occasion to shoot a charging bear with it. They always seem to be going the other direction!
I think a 35 whelen in a controlled round feed would be good, and it has 5 rounds in the magazine. If you are going handloading/wildcat route, a 400 whelen could be a good candidate, 400 gr bullet at 2000-2100 fps, with a little less recoil and 5 rounds in the magazine.
I don't hunt brown bear so I picked a Ruger M77 bolt gun chambered in 44 magnum and a 20" Rossi 92 lever gun chambered in 44 magnum. The main reason why I like 44 mag is because I handload my own ammo and 44 mag brass is easier to find for free at my local shooting ranges than 45-70, 30-30 win or 45LC
For a quick bolt action one of my guilty pleasures was, until the recent wild fire destroyed them, my sporterized smle rifles. I had never been exposed to them growing up here in the US. When my family went to Australia I had the opportunity to shoot one in a rifle match. As I recall we had either at 5 or 7 second exposure during which we were to drop to kneeling and fire a shot. I had fired reloaded and was prepared to fire again about two and a half seconds before the target went down..303 is roughly analogous to a 308 Winchester. The 210 or 215 gr round nose has traditionally been very popular for moose in Canada. At least I can theoretically replace those rifles even here in the People's Republic of Washington. Unlike some others.
Check to make sure you can use the ammo they sell but Underwood ammo and Buffalo Bore make increased power 45-70 that better match the capabilities of modern rifles
Look up here on youtube the Alaskan moose hunt using a Buffalo Bore 190 grain 30-30 --- he shot once --- it took 7 or 8 steps and fell over. In a rifle ---- caliber is second to bullet type and placement
Best of both worlds would be the Pennsylvania automatic. I’m personally not a huge fan of pumps, but they keep the hands and body the closest to shooting position. Outside of a true semi automatic that is.
In my opinion, it doesn’t matter whether you have a bolt action or a lever action. If you’re going after dangerous game, a large predator that if you wound can hunt you back and attack you you better have practiced a rapid fire shooting rapidfire doesn’t mean how fast you can pull the trigger, but can you acquire the target between shots? I’m going to go off a tangent Savage has a straight Pull Rifle. There is a lever switch basically on the back that disengage is the locked action and I found one particular one so hard to push that almost required a mallet.
.45 Raptor? Also the old Remington slide action (pump) was chambered in .45-110 and a bunch of others. Anyone who has run a pump shotgun for a length of time can easily rival a semi-auto shotgun.
I wonder how often more than 4 rounds were used during a bear encounter? Always felt more comfortable carrying my 340 Weatherby with 250 partitions when I noticed Grizzly tracks!
I think the bolt gun has a simpler design if you needed to clear mud, dirt or ice from the action or bolt area. I think both designs have merit especially if you practice and anticipate the cons of each.
My bear/ river fishing rifle is a stainless Savage Alaskan Brush with 18.5” barrel, a stock suited to a rimfire and a Leopold 4x pig plex scope in 375 Ruger. No longer made. If you shoot it prone you will be an inch shorter after and never not shoot it standing ever again. I laughed when handloading with 270gr accubonds w h380 and it was a compressed load in that huge cartridge. Stupid powerful and recoil in that light rifle
.30-30 or .30-06 works well. I've gone after beat with the.45-70. 325 grain hollow point or the 500 grain hard cast. I've done head shots. Between the ear and eye. Cave in the skull.
If speed in followup shots while staying on target I'd take a Remington 7600 in 30-06 with 168 grain copper bullet has 3300 ft lbs at the muzzle when the bear is that close but excellent down range peformance . High pressure 45-70 loads can get sticky in a lever gun. A pump rifle is easier to stay on target. you dont want so much recoil that muzzle rise obscures the target. polish up the mechanism on a7600 and under recoil with a light hand on the forearm it will eject itself so all you have to do is shove the new round in, it is very fast 5 shots in less than 2 seconds.
450 bushmaster is another good caliber and you can get 10 rounds in a 6 to 7 pound semi automatic rifle Each one has their unique strengths and weaknesses
If you really want a stock lever in a legitimate DG load the Winchester 1886, current manufacture, in 45-90 is hard to beat. While it isn't a 458 Win Mag, the case capacity is darn close. The bullet seating is the main difference.
I'm sorry, I gotta chime in here. I have a Marlin 1895 45-70 with a 24" octagonal barrel that I've had for 25 years or longer. I learned early that I was limiting that cartridge/gun if i only used factory ammo purposely loaded light because of the old origonal rifles chambered for them still floating around. So in defence of the old war horse, i have to say if you don't reload for it, you aren't getting near what it is capable of. I have a few good loads for it that are worth mentioning. A heavy jacket 400 gr Hawk bullet loaded with H322 powder with a muzzle velocity of 1850fps and for 3000 ft/lb of muzzle energy. Not sure if Hawk bullets are in business anymore. Another good one is a 500 grain hard cast gas check bullet moving around 1650fps with either H322 or IMR3031 for around the same 3000 ft/lb that penetrates unbelievably deep. My point is that it's not fair to put the 45-70 into a old less powerful category by not utilizing its handloading potential. Most big longer range bottle neck more modern cartridges are factory loaded to their full potential. Where as the older cartridges like the 45-70 are not. But in a older rifle design, like the Marlin 1896 or Winchester 1886 that can handle the pressure, they can be a whole lot more, maybe as good because of the bullet diameter and mass. The shear size of a bullet can do more than you think. They may not be able to reach out as far, but within their usable range and loaded to full potential, they are every bit as good as the newer high power cartridges. I have an article where a guy with 1886 chambered in the old 50 Action Express shot through 2 Cape Buffalo with one shot from 75 yards. Incredible penetration ! .
You could also go with a Browning BLR and have the best of both worlds. You get the speed of a lever gun with the cartridges of a bolt gun.
I feel like they're purposely ignoring the BLR
My BLR & My Sister's BLR now both have hurt feelings. 😢
My browning BLR is also feeling left out so I am cuddling it.
The BLR isn't chambered for the calibers they are discussing as appropriate for bear hunting.
@@MartinVeneroso you can get various decent calibers such as a 300 win mag. That caliber may not have been mentioned but it will do the job.
Love having the two of you together in studio. You guys spoil us with the wealth of knowledge between you.
I'm not even a hunter, but man am I glad I stumbled across this channel to hear all the nerdiness about rifles and cartridges.
45/70 energy can be close 338win mag level with the right ammunition. Even the medium power HSM Bear Loads are 430gr and about 1800ft/sec = 3098ft/lbs
It can yes just won't carry that energy down range well. It'll bleed out its velocity too quick
I truly appreciate you two keeping ethics in the conversation 🙏
Ron and Joseph, Laurel and Hardy, Abbott and Costello; Y'All have entered the Pantheon of duplex teamwork that survives every trial. Keep up the Good Work!
There ought be at least one hand lifted to raise a Remington 7600 chambered for .35 Whelen into view. It is quick to shoot, and quick to reload.
Winchester Model 70 FWT with a red dot sight is quick and easy to live with in the woods, especially in .308 or .30-06. The Leupold FX-II 2.5x20mm is also great on that rifle.
I live in North East Ontario Canada. No deer, no elk, a few caribou but no season. We have an overabundance of black bears, and a healthy moose population (I only hunt moose). On our acreage, when I walk the dogs, I usually take my 12 gauge with ssg and slug mix - I took the plug out. Or I take my old (1959 ) Win 30-30 with my very potent reloads. But when hunting moose, I use both 308 Win and 300 Win Mag.
😂I think I will take my 45-70 for big bear. It is easy to pack and I'd a good thumper.
Down here in Mississippi we have a primitive season ( single shot, straight walled cartridges). I cant remember the last time I saw a grizzly down here but we have a ton of 45-70's.,🤣👍
Gosh I love it when both of you Joseph and Ron share the program!! You both bring so much great information to the table and both of you just add so much! Your love and enthusiasm for the shooting sports and experience. Many thanks to you both!
I have a Puma M92 in 454 Casull that been smoothed out. I love that gun and it’s great for security with hard cast bullets. I carry it in the brush for safety from predators off all types.
I have been thinking about one of those. I might never loaded with 454 casull but moderately Stout 45 Colt will handle any black bear or deer in my area. Moose or elk would be pushing it a little even under 100 yds. If a Selkirk Grizzly Vista...
Ron demonstrated the British rapid bole drill, something I learned on my 03-A3 Springfield. Remember that the British were the last major world power to drop bolt action rifles, the SMLE. A British rifleman could put as many AIMED shots on target as the average guy on a semiauto rifle.
You two guys together make a wonderful pair for information and knowledge.
I've got both and I think it would be a hard choice even though I haven't been Bear hunting since the early 90's out in the Seattle area.
Hey!, what about the best of both worlds?! Browning BLR in 300 Win Mag or 300 WSM? Distance and speed!
I think it can’t be said enough how svelte a nice lever gun is. For “big” cartridges I’ve got 416 rem, 45-70, and then 30-06. I think personally I’d opt for either the 30-06 or the 416 rem over the 45-70 for a planned hunting situation. What I have considered though is bringing the 45-70 just to tote for the pack out. I think my Henry weighs about 7 lbs and it’s super easy to carry and obviously very handy with its 18” barrel. My handload is a 405 speer at 1850 ft/sec. I’m sure it would be fine for just about anything in a reactionary type situation and it’s not brutal to shoot
I have a Winchester 94AE lever action guide gun chambered in 44 Mag with a 16” barrel. I typically bring with me on black bear hunts. Pretty light and compact and holds 9 in the tube mag. As an AZ bear hunter I’m typically shooting cross canyon with a bolt rifle, but getting into the bottom of canyons in thick brush country to find downed bears that lever action is money. 100% worth carrying the extra couple lbs. great video as always 👌🏼
9 in a 16 inch? I thought they only held 8 with that, the 20s are 10+1
@@WayStedYoumy 94AE 100% is a 16” and the tube holds 9. So I’m able to carry 9+1 if I’m chambered.
There's a reason the 45-70 is still around 150 years after it's induction, it's a "sledge hammer" on big game. A Marlin 95 will handle +P loads, and as pointed out, points well, is quick to shoot within it's effective range.
I owned a 95 Marlin (made in 1980's) that I shot 300gr JHP moving 2,200 fps. And yes I was more interested in performance than case life and putting down whatever may desire to eat me.
People are so impressed with easily hyped energy numbers and velocity. .45-70 doesn't need either on those fronts to plow through bison and moose and tree trunks and keep going. It's so underestimated the sort of wounding the big slug can do without the "speedy spear tipped bullets."
I’ve never tried 300 grain slugs in my 45-70. They sound almost interesting enough to try. I’m running 400 grains at 2000 fps at the moment. I can say, without a doubt, that this combination is no joke.
I’ll go with both, I’d even throw in a pump action rifle like my Remington 7600.
In 30/06 with heavy bullets, or in a .35 Whelan, it would work fine.
The bottle necked cartridges are great but I really love my lever guns and single actions. I will go with the 45-70 more often than not
Pls tell me more what you hunt and what your set up friend ???
Ron, I am so impressed - quite some time ago I commented on one of your shows where you misused better and best. I said better of two and best of three or more. You replied that you had taken note - well, lo and behold, you did, you have and in this show you clearly demonstrated your understanding by nailing it!!! Well done mate.
Great to see Joseph on the program and Team Ron Spomer.
45-70 for bears over bait, or hound hunting. 300 win mag to 375 h&h for spot and stalk. 416 rem. to 458 lott for coastal brownies, if you can handle the extra weight and recoil.
Boom! It's settled.
Browning BLR can be had in 450marlin and 300Win mag its Ambidextrous so Lever Action Wins
My choice would be a Remington 7600 in .35 Whelen or .358 Win for a shorter action. With this rig I have enough gun for both brush busting or go longer range.
Excellent choice. My pump whelen is my go to bear gun.
Great choices!
My dedicated black bear rifle is a Ruger American Predator chambered in the brush busting 358 Winchester! I consistently get half inch groups with Buffalo Bore ammo and one inch groups with Hornady!
I'm going to start reloading.. and my choice will be a 225 grain Nosler Partition.
That's the bullet.. that I used to use in my 350 Remington Magnum 😊
I can tell you first hand.. the first shot was all that I needed with either cartridge 😊
@blackie1of4 Fabulous choice. And reloading can be a lot of fun. I think your choice of the 225 grainer is perfect. The .358 Win is a wonderful round and totally under appreciated. I recently bought a Winchester Big Bore 94 in .444 Marlin. It's a unique experience shooting it. It also would make the bear grade rifle category, too.
@@Mark-uq9kmthanks brother
I love the 444 Marlin!
Not so much the Remington factory ammo for it! Doesn't do the job especially on black bear!
Had a hunter get attacked by a wounded black bear a few years ago. Probably ten miles from my house! The bear laid silently hidden.. once he got close.. a few steps away.. it attacked him 😞
Lucky for him.. it didn't have much fight left! A lot of scratches and a few bites later.. and the constant ribbing from his friends!
He shot it five times with those Remington rounds! Hornady puts out a better load :)
@blackie1of4 I started reloading my own T4 ammo. I use a Sierra 240 grain Sportsman bullet which is technically a pistol bullet. I fill the large hollow point with JB Weld and this turns it into a significant rifle bullet. The Sportsman is a pretty tough bullet, regardless. I love the carbine configuration of the Win 94 Big Bore with the 20'' barrel.
That was a great video guys.
Took my fist bear with a bolt action, but being in thick woods almost exclusively I switched to a short 45/70 years ago with handloads tailored it doesn’t get any better.
Owning both is the best option like you said.
Just think back in the day when Elmer Keith and Townsend whelen considered 2-1.5” groups phenomenal at 100 for hunting. Those lever actions do the same with correct loads which wasn’t much of a reality back in their day with limited optics and ammo
I found bolt action faster to reload than lever guns. When I open the bolt, can't go into battery because follower is stopping bolt travel, I grab a stripper clip and stick it in the guide and push cartridges into magazine, close the bolt.
In the Army, on the Garand, we had something called the Murphy drill (Murphy's law, Anything that can go wrong generally will, and usually at the worst possible moment."). We started with one cartridge in the rifle. We fire, bolt locks open. We are timed on how fast we can push in a fresh clip and engage the next target.
Clip chargers work great on M-1903 Springfields, Model 721 Remingtons, and every other military or commercial bolt-action with clip-charger slots milled into the receiver bridge, but they're useless on modern commercial bolt-action rifles that lack this feature or have it neutered via mounting an optic over the receiver.
Otherwise, I've found bolt actions to be a "one round at a time" slow to load as my Marlin 336 is.
Enjoyed the video gentlemen, thanks for the post.
Double Rifle... 375H&H for me. Faster than both, accurate enough out to 200 yards for a Bear size target. Shorter with a better point and plenty of horse power.... Can't beat it.
My grandfather developed the .50 Alaskan. I’ve shot an original Winchester .50 Alaskan by harold johnson and I’ll never forget it.
I would like proof of you have any.
Underwood and Buffalo Bore make great 45-70 ammo. 200 yard shots are well within reach with ample power.
You two are great together, thanks guys, excellent information!
Fantastic podcast! Super fun! I love it!
My Winchester 1895 in .405 Win is my most reliable gun I own. Much more reliable than any bolt action I find as you can cycle it slow or fast and from any angle including upside down. It also holds 4+1.
And that will slap anything you point it at.
When the 30-30 came out, Winchester advertisement showed a hunter shooting Grizzly. Guess if it was good then, Why not today?
Modern grizzlies grow kevlar fur is why the 30-30 is in inadequate today.
@@Hutzjohn He. He, Wouldn't be my choice if going Grizzly hunting. But if it's that in my hands and would take the shot if close enough.
Theres modern ammos that are hot. Even Buffalo Bore came out with Hawk bullets 190 grain for 30-30. 30-30 is overlooked...@@WillyK51
I enjoyed this video. Yes, you can run a bolt gun quickly with practice. I shot a bolt gun in NRA high power matches for many years I had to learn to slow down! I own two Marlin 1895 45-70s, one the full size rifle, the other a guide gun with a factory muzzle brake or compensator on the barrel. The guide gun has less muzzle flip and as you said more noise. I would have to flip a coin on which one I would take on a bear hunt.
My two cents would be the 45/70 shooting 405gr flat nose cast lead. I run them at a smoking 1250fps. The weird thing is you get better penetration down at those levels. My load and T/C Encore barrel was used to kill a big black bear in Idaho with one shot. Everything I’ve ever shot dropped where it was standing, from wild pigs, raccoons, and a dandy wide 8 at 169 yds.
I just realized I wasn’t subscribed. Thank you for all the awesome hunting and shooting content
enjoyable to watch you guys playing off against each other
The browning blr is great . Pointed bullets in a lever gun . I have one in 325 wsm
everyone forgets about the browning lever rifle (blr), available in several cartridges up to 30-06 these days, but formerly (not that long ago) available in several magnum loads.
its still can be had new in 5 Magnums 270wsm, 300wsm, 325wsm, 300winmag ,7mm winmag
50-110 In an 1886 Winchester Will Definitely Get The Job Done 350 Grain Hawk Bullet or a 550 Grain Solid 😀😊😀 Ron
Leverguns50 has loaded his to 6400 ft-lb. That's between .458 Lott and .460 Weatherby Magnum.
@@exothermal.sprocket Exactly Jeremy Loads It Hot 😀😊
I have a Rossi R92 in .454 Casull, load 10 rounds total of Buffalo Bore hot rounds and it will absolutely do the job and will do a number on your shoulder.
Here in Ohio we are relegated to straight wall cartridges for deer, so my 45/70 guide gun is what I would take since I practice with it every deer season. I would use my 405 gr. hard cast flat points at around 1550 out of my 18" barrel. I use the 300gr JHP at 1800 on deer for the long shots. 100 yds is about the max that I can see where I hunt anyways. Just have to carry some bacon around in the alser thickets and let the bear find me.
You the bait lol
Good call on the cast bullets. At least the 45-70 folks can cast and make their own bullets literally from scratch. Is Ohio even an bear hunting state? I'm in the same state as Ron and there's bears but I don't run across them often.
Thanks for a great video! I always enjoy different opinions from a well informed perspective, and that’s certainly where Ron is coming from. I shoot everything with my 300 win mag and hand load my own rounds, but that’s just what works for me and I’m confident in its ability. I love those Barnes bullets and I don’t have a single bad thing to say about them. I currently use a Hammer hunter bullet in 196g, because a couple years ago you simply could not get the Barnes bullets I was accustomed to shooting. I’ve recovered both bullets and I have to say I’m sticking with the Hammer bullets however reluctant I was to switch. Thanks again and happy hunting guys!!
I've got both bolt action & lever action for bear I've got the Henary 45-70gov shooting 405gr hard cast hand loaded bullets & I've got a 338Lapua Magnum 300gr hand loaded with Lapua brass
Great Topic! I’ve owned 2 Winchester Model 94 30-30’s And 3 Winchester Model 70 338 Win Magnums, As Well As Other Models In Over 40 Years Of Hunting In Northern Alberta Canada. Looking To Upgrade To The 45-70 For Brush . Best Of Both Worlds
Nice pairing of hosts here. Great combo.👍
A cheap custom option for a DG lever is the Winchester 1895 converted to 9.3x62. Since that cartridge is similar to the 30-06 to the extent that it can be formed from it (not recommended) it fits 1895 rifles designed for the 30-06, if they are re-bored, or re-barreled. Then you really have something...
Great video! My favorite so far. I can see me watching this one more than once.
A Remington pump-action in 30-06 or, better yet, 35 Whelen, would be better still than any conventional lever gun. Just a shame they’re so hard to find.
Shot placement is everything
I think for me the defining factor of a good bolt action is that it at least lets you run it hard well. But preferably it prefers and excels when run hard
Sounds like a mauser type
@@keatonjorgensen8793 mausers definitely do it, so do Tika and the bergaras from Spain but not the us
Loved it! You guys crack me up😂
The Mauser M18 platform offers a removable magazine and comes in many different calibers. I certainly love mine. I installed iron sights on mine to make it more versatile.
Very wise decision to add Bonadict to the videos. I have a Tikka T3X lite roughtech in 30-06. With a Barnes Vortx 150gr, I can do a 2” group offhand at 100 yards. I’ll add this: what has helped me with flinching is focusing on exhaling before pulling the trigger and making sure my trigger pull doesn’t pull the barrel down.
45-70 would be good in a lever, but you could run more power in various calibers in a bolt.
That's the selection
Or grab a lever gun in 50-110 and have over 6000 foot pounds of energy per shot on tap
Ron greatly downplayed the potential behind .45-70.
That’s because he only looks at factory loads that are suitable for the older firearms chambered in 45-70 but like many people have stated newer rifles that can handle increased pressures you can load up 45-70 to be a real cannon
@@imperialwhovian3461 Correct. And I do think Ron knows that fair comparisons are between things of like-potential, not between something loaded weakly vs. something loaded near full potential.
That's why straight pulls like the Blaser R8 are so popular for "wehrhaftes Wild" in Europe. Big oompf cartridge with a long barrel for the practical length of the rifle and very fast action.
@RonSpomerOutdoor Hi Ron, thank you very much. I am Europe though so I'd rather pay the karma forward to someone in the US to not waste money and resources.
I DID USE.. a 45/70 for Alaskan Coastal Brown bear..my guide carried 375 Alaskan, bolt.. our encounter on Barenoff island at 20-25 yds a few yrs ago. NO FEAR, CONFIDENCE in my Marlin & 420gr. Buffalo Boar ammo..No lung shot, bear runs hes gone. Game over in Alaska when you draw blood. So my 1st round, right into the shoulder, stop the run, 2nd by guide right over the eye exit behind ear, and still required 4 more 45/70 ASAP.. followups.. My Brown squares at 9'7" 1000 lbs. Scavengers , next day 50% gone.
Bottom line 45/70 great to 200+ yds. For deer in 180gr is still overkill. Deer / black bear..180gr any distance to 500Y with a Bolt action as long as you practice. Thats why i use a Rem 700, 180 PSP. Good luck....to all
Well I had an uncle would prove you all wrong lol. He has taken everything in the US with a 30-06 remington game master which is a pump. He was avid hunter all over the US
Good points on both sides is the reason that I own both.
You can also keep a pinch on the bolt which pressing the trigger with the middle finger. Makes it a lot faster but you have to practice practice.
Like the advice of staying on the gun and cycling the action for a quick follow up.
Since your only using 300 grain in 45/70 what think of one of 92 copies in 454 that give you even more rounds of fire. Keep up good work
Left out the Model 88,99 Savage and Browning lever rifles. All fire bottle neck bolt gun cartridges
Hi Ron, i have a middle of the road compromise that is never talked about. The Remington model 7600 in 35 Whalen. Cut the barrel back to 20 in, and you have a rig that handles fast in the brush, and will shoot to 300 yds. in one gun. A low power scope, or a peep site to 200 yards, has it all. what do you think. Love to hear your response, Carl.
@carllovendale6259. Hey Carl I got the same message from Ron and an email about sending a text message to a number. Is that really him or a scam?
I don"t know. I enjoy hunting and balistics, but the ins and outs of all this digital info. i have to go slow. Just my way. Good hearing from you, anyway if you find out please drop me a line your friend Carl.
I hate to do this but I have to correct one thing. Active custom molded ear protection is a great solution, it helps you hear better low ("normal") sounds but it will "kill" loud sounds like pew is. Those ear plugs are pricey but when you consider how much we pay for guns, ammo, and other gear, we should spend money on good ear protection. Every pew is a permanent damage to our ears.
This was one of rare occasions when I had to correct you. Love watching your shows.
I would choose my Savage 116 in .375 Ruger for hunting brown bears, but would choose my Marlin 1895 45-70 for bear protection.
5 times this summer I had a Ruger/Marlin 45-70 in my hands at the cabin west of Anchorage watching to see what the bears were going to do and all five times I wished I had my scoped 375 bolt mostly because I know exactly what it will do. A low velocity short bullet wasn’t as confidence aspiring as I’d have liked. Personally I’d have rather had a Garand than that lever action. Pretty handy rifle however but not enough experience with it to feel confident. I have used old Winchester lever 45-60 on smaller black bears which wasn’t all that impressive 🤷🏽♂️
I use a pump .30-06 in close cover.
If I was going to hunt Alaskan coastal brown bear, or any very dangerous game I'd pick a Miroku 1886 lever action rifle in 45-90 or 50-110.
For close range speed, I take Dad's older Remington 750 Carbine in 35 Whelen. For open range I'll take my Sako AV in 9.3x62, that 286 grain bullet penetrates incredibly.
I'm surprised you guys didnt even mention a Browning BLR in 358 Winchester....pretty much would cover everything for bolt or lever
I love my 358 BLR and it is pure poison on elk, I have never had occasion to shoot a charging bear with it. They always seem to be going the other direction!
I think a 35 whelen in a controlled round feed would be good, and it has 5 rounds in the magazine. If you are going handloading/wildcat route, a 400 whelen could be a good candidate, 400 gr bullet at 2000-2100 fps, with a little less recoil and 5 rounds in the magazine.
A 35 whelen in a pump gun is a great bear thumper too.
@@gsnicholas8522 * And there are wildcat cartridges built on the 35 Whelen cartridge that will improve it further.
@@charlessmith4242 I'm not familiar with those. They would be intriguing.
I don't hunt brown bear so I picked a Ruger M77 bolt gun chambered in 44 magnum and a 20" Rossi 92 lever gun chambered in 44 magnum. The main reason why I like 44 mag is because I handload my own ammo and 44 mag brass is easier to find for free at my local shooting ranges than 45-70, 30-30 win or 45LC
For a quick bolt action one of my guilty pleasures was, until the recent wild fire destroyed them, my sporterized smle rifles. I had never been exposed to them growing up here in the US. When my family went to Australia I had the opportunity to shoot one in a rifle match. As I recall we had either at 5 or 7 second exposure during which we were to drop to kneeling and fire a shot. I had fired reloaded and was prepared to fire again about two and a half seconds before the target went down..303 is roughly analogous to a 308 Winchester. The 210 or 215 gr round nose has traditionally been very popular for moose in Canada. At least I can theoretically replace those rifles even here in the People's Republic of Washington. Unlike some others.
BLR... best of both worlds.
I see the Javelin bipod adapter on that bolt gun. Great product. $$$, but so light and rigid.
I love my 88s. A 88 in 358 Winchester! Fast and longer range.
I just got a henry all weather 45-70 for my birthday so I'd have to go with that, that thing thumps, leaves me smiling every time I shoot it
Check to make sure you can use the ammo they sell but Underwood ammo and Buffalo Bore make increased power 45-70 that better match the capabilities of modern rifles
Look up here on youtube the Alaskan moose hunt using a Buffalo Bore 190 grain 30-30 --- he shot once --- it took 7 or 8 steps and fell over. In a rifle ---- caliber is second to bullet type and placement
It's common to hunt moose, elk and bear with 30-30. Even Grizzlies.
Best of both worlds would be the Pennsylvania automatic. I’m personally not a huge fan of pumps, but they keep the hands and body the closest to shooting position. Outside of a true semi automatic that is.
In my opinion, it doesn’t matter whether you have a bolt action or a lever action. If you’re going after dangerous game, a large predator that if you wound can hunt you back and attack you you better have practiced a rapid fire shooting rapidfire doesn’t mean how fast you can pull the trigger, but can you acquire the target between shots?
I’m going to go off a tangent Savage has a straight Pull Rifle. There is a lever switch basically on the back that disengage is the locked action and I found one particular one so hard to push that almost required a mallet.
308 Winchester bolt action with a 180gr soft point
505 Gibson with a 600gr fmj bolt action
I like a short lever action in 45-70 in thicker woods, .338 win mag in open country or a.375HH magnum with a short barrel 18”
Thank you so much to both of you. I appreciate your videos, very informative !
.45 Raptor? Also the old Remington slide action (pump) was chambered in .45-110 and a bunch of others. Anyone who has run a pump shotgun for a length of time can easily rival a semi-auto shotgun.
I wonder how often more than 4 rounds were used during a bear encounter? Always felt more comfortable carrying my 340 Weatherby with 250 partitions when I noticed Grizzly tracks!
Carry a 22lr, you'll shoot like crazy
Got here late, now I gotta wait to watch the beginning
I think the bolt gun has a simpler design if you needed to clear mud, dirt or ice from the action or bolt area. I think both designs have merit especially if you practice and anticipate the cons of each.
Great show liked the very best option own both.
My bear/ river fishing rifle is a stainless Savage Alaskan Brush with 18.5” barrel, a stock suited to a rimfire and a Leopold 4x pig plex scope in 375 Ruger. No longer made. If you shoot it prone you will be an inch shorter after and never not shoot it standing ever again.
I laughed when handloading with 270gr accubonds w h380 and it was a compressed load in that huge cartridge. Stupid powerful and recoil in that light rifle
.30-30 or .30-06 works well. I've gone after beat with the.45-70. 325 grain hollow point or the 500 grain hard cast. I've done head shots. Between the ear and eye. Cave in the skull.
If speed in followup shots while staying on target I'd take a Remington 7600 in 30-06 with 168 grain copper bullet has 3300 ft lbs at the muzzle when the bear is that close but excellent down range peformance . High pressure 45-70 loads can get sticky in a lever gun. A pump rifle is easier to stay on target. you dont want so much recoil that muzzle rise obscures the target. polish up the mechanism on a7600 and under recoil with a light hand on the forearm it will eject itself so all you have to do is shove the new round in, it is very fast 5 shots in less than 2 seconds.
I plan on using Bergara HMR 300 PRC for brown bear. I have 5 round box magazine too.
450 bushmaster is another good caliber and you can get 10 rounds in a 6 to 7 pound semi automatic rifle
Each one has their unique strengths and weaknesses
If you really want a stock lever in a legitimate DG load the Winchester 1886, current manufacture, in 45-90 is hard to beat. While it isn't a 458 Win Mag, the case capacity is darn close. The bullet seating is the main difference.
You could get one for 50-110, and get 6000+ ft/lbs. But a 45-90 is better for longer ranges.
I'm sorry, I gotta chime in here. I have a Marlin 1895 45-70 with a 24" octagonal barrel that I've had for 25 years or longer. I learned early that I was limiting that cartridge/gun if i only used factory ammo purposely loaded light because of the old origonal rifles chambered for them still floating around. So in defence of the old war horse, i have to say if you don't reload for it, you aren't getting near what it is capable of. I have a few good loads for it that are worth mentioning. A heavy jacket 400 gr Hawk bullet loaded with H322 powder with a muzzle velocity of 1850fps and for 3000 ft/lb of muzzle energy. Not sure if Hawk bullets are in business anymore. Another good one is a 500 grain hard cast gas check bullet moving around 1650fps with either H322 or IMR3031 for around the same 3000 ft/lb that penetrates unbelievably deep. My point is that it's not fair to put the 45-70 into a old less powerful category by not utilizing its handloading potential. Most big longer range bottle neck more modern cartridges are factory loaded to their full potential. Where as the older cartridges like the 45-70 are not. But in a older rifle design, like the Marlin 1896 or Winchester 1886 that can handle the pressure, they can be a whole lot more, maybe as good because of the bullet diameter and mass. The shear size of a bullet can do more than you think. They may not be able to reach out as far, but within their usable range and loaded to full potential, they are every bit as good as the newer high power cartridges. I have an article where a guy with 1886 chambered in the old 50 Action Express shot through 2 Cape Buffalo with one shot from 75 yards. Incredible penetration !
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A few companies make hot 45-70 loads for exactly what you stated like buffalo bore and underwood ammo.
I saw a video of a pump-action 454 casull recently. That would be awfully fast also
Holy moly! That's gunna tenderize a animal.