I Dropped Computer Science at CMU: Here's Why
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- Опубликовано: 14 июн 2024
- I quit computer science at the end of my junior year at CMU. In retrospect, I gathered some thoughts about why I dropped the double CS major, and I hope sharing that with you can help you make the right choice for your college life.
👨💻 WHO AM I
I'm a senior studying Information Systems at Carnegie Mellon University. I make videos about tech, new grad life, and my hobbies. I hope this channel can expand and help more people along my journey.
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📸 Instagram - / chuniphil
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Or leave a comment. I'm always happy to read them :)
sub count: 25
Chapters:
00:00 Intro
01:18 the hype around CMU's CS program
04:18 stress of studying CS at CMU
07:45 the return on investment (ROI) of studying more CS
10:20 so what's my point of not getting a CS major?
#carnegiemellon #cmu #computerscience
The point we have science under the name “computer science” is to actually warn people it’s for the pursuit of true foundation. What most students ignore is that they need to be really passionate about science before they get a major/degree in CS. Unfortunately, most people taking CS classes just want to do engineering/coding, which is great but totally defeats the purpose of CS.
I totally agree! So many people overlook the SCIENCE part. Especially at CMU where the CS apartment allegedly span out of the Math apartment originally lol
This is true, I was one of them. One thing I regret was not researching about Computer SCIENCE. If you didn't like science or mathematics back in high school, chances are that you either have to learn to cope with them or drop out.
I would suggest those students to look into alternative programs like Applied Computer science, more hands on projects that will help you become software engineer/dev faster.
Very goood point. Especially with things like Machine Learning. if you math background in Statistics, Calculus, and Probability are not up to par it is going to be a lot of extra work. It CS is a lot more than coding.
Interestingly, I experienced the opposite. I was in EECS at Berkeley, and I decided to switch to pure math. The main reason that I made the decision was that I realized my interest in thinking abstractly after taking discrete math, and many mandatory project-based CS courses seemed less appealing to me (I regreted applying to engineering school). Although CS has science in its name, most CS curriculum includes some extent of software engineering which kind of discourage theory-leaned students.
Learning should not be about cramming a double major within 4 years for an impressive degree. Learning should be at a healthy pace where you can really reflect on what you're paying to learn. Glad you made the healthy and more balanced choice.
Learning should not be about who can pay to learn. ...
I strive for computing literacy instead. I assume everyone will be computer scientists in the future. I even work as a broker now and I use my data scientist background to find clients and elaborate strategies.
@@JenJHaydenso youtube isnt free?
@@jastation321they’re talking about paying for uni
Appreciate the input brother. Yeah I definitely think the lack of overlap between CS education and interview preparation for CS related jobs needs to be addressed more often. Most CS students, like you kind mentioned, are more passionate about coding and landing a career rather than computer science itself
Yea that’s how I felt too!
that maybe me also, yikes 😅
Ive heard every CS graduate wished or slightly wished they didn't go to school & just learnt coding out of boot camp or self studied, bc apparently they use nothing that they learnt in CS in their work, this was from a Stanford graduate & the other is a popular "coder" youtuber
@@iidentifyasjeffbezos go to school to network and depending on the program can help you land a high paying job
@@iidentifyasjeffbezos A lack of a degree certainly will limit the potential of your career.
“Heck the only thing I’m passionate about is probably like anime, but anime doesn’t really make a living.”
That one really got me.
"college isn't like highschool, where you always get As" that hurt me
Studying computer science doesn't have to be completed in universities since most people don't aim to become computer scientists. As long as people have good programming skills and lifelong learning habits, they can actually master many techniques to solve practical problems, which will bring them a greater sense of achievement than simply obtaining a CS degree.
True but most jobs require a degree or experience in the field. Having a degree definitely makes it easier to get a job.
@@tarekblaugrana1053 yeah
@@tarekblaugrana1053 you can get hired without a degree as well, there’s many ways into the software engineering field now and days
@@lashondamiller2982 He didn't say that people who don't have degrees can't get a job in the industry, he said that it'll be more difficult without a degree.
Why do people who don't have degrees always get so defensive about this? A bachelor's will make you more employable, regardless of any other factors. With a master's, you become even more employable. It really is that simple.
@@The_Original_Hybrid first of all my guy, I’m well aware he did not say people without degrees can’t get a job within the industry, I was saying that with those companies that say a bachelors is “required” people without degrees are still getting those jobs without the degrees at those companies for the positions that are bachelors mandatory mane that was the whole point I was pointing that out.
Second I was not getting defensive over it lmao where in my original comment did it show me getting defensive??? Unless u were just speaking in general then, but still haven’t witnessed someone without a degree getting defensive over that 🤔
Also in this day and age unless ur going into a field like medical, law, etc u don’t really need a degree, really it’s about having a portfolio displaying your skills, having certs, or just connections
And depending on your field a masters degree can be a bit mundane, and not necessary at all to being more hire-able. There’s just different cases to this now I mean what you said would apply to the past but now there’s been so many changes that you can see a shift happening here
I'm on the other side of the world (in Singapore) but I had a very similar experience studying for my Information Systems major. I ended up completing the programme and am graduating soon, but a lot of people told me I was ridiculous for even considering switching majors when I decided that technical roles like software development weren't really for me.
The reality is tech isn't for everyone. Not everyone needs a tech job. And that's ok.
So glad for videos like yours that can help others realise there's more to life than sticking to a choice in major and completing it for the sake of doing it. Life's full of choices and we should embrace that.
P.S. I've ended up doing tech-related jobs with no coding whatsoever. I'm now running my own business as a digital accessibility specialist.
i agree, i quit my tech course, didnt stick with it because i realised im not suited for it, especially to go through higher studies for it. not worth it for me
Truly appreciate your candor/honesty. CS is hard and if you double major with Physics or Math, it just exacerbates the situation.
I barely survived math at CMU. I'm not doing anything else.
"machine learning is just math" - I wish more people in industry knew this. This field is severely overcrowded by the people that use libraries to do something with ML, but never understand the fundamentals... I will stick to EE :)
What is EE?
@@sobsagelectric engineering. Like cs lite.
@@wngmvbut it’s wayyy harder because you actually have to understand hardware + physics...
EE is where people who can't handle coding go 😊
@@imveryhungry112 ah yes, because the harder math and more difficult physics in EE are definitely easier.
Thank you for sharing. So many students experiences at CMU are similar to yours. It’s helpful to know what you are getting into.
CMU CS graduate here. There were usually lots of cross majors in big classes in the beginning of the semester. Most of them would be gone after the first mid-term.
CS classes are not about coding, though many of them involve quite a bit of coding, so don't take them to learn how to code. Many of my classmates started coding before they were 10. They are also usually more demanding than other soft major classes.
Most of these classes are useless theoretical bs
@@Bambotb Only a true brainlet would claim that theoretical CS is useless.
@@The_Original_Hybrid ask Zuckerberg to solve that shit exam let's see
You'll be happy to know those 'useless theoretical bs' when the industry undergoes change
last year, my child was in 11th grade in high school, he took Pattern recognition/AI, a 400 CS level class in his local university. Second assignment, to do the A/B decision analysis using the Bayesian method. he spent 22 hours in one weekend to write about 1000 lines of python to plot 20,000 random decision. he is gifted like scored 780/800 SAT Math at age 11. this youtuber is too weak in math and just doesn't have the gifted mind which i think why he struggled in CS. I THINK YOU HAVE TO BE GIFTED TO UNDERSTAND THOSE SH TT!!! My child will do the restrictive early decision at Stanford, and i think early action on Carnegie Mellon. I don't think he could do both Stanford or MIT.
what an amazing and inspirational video bro! Really made me reflect on my major choice (CS too). Keep up the good work!
Watching this video makes me more grateful for my professors at my Uni's CS department. They have made it a point to provide resources for practice reviews, internship availability, preparation for your career, internship and what the next years will look like and other useful things. Especially the discords and clubs, they are a really helpful and welcoming community. They always share any opportunity for jobs, internships or other helpful acitvites others or that club is hosting.
what is your uni name?
Thank you for being so honest and transparent with your school journey. I’m sure you are going to make a great life. You seem to be a very insightful young man. You will be very successful because you have honored yourself.
I'm so glad I clicked on this. I have had similar struggles for some time now, but I couldn't find out what the problem was. And your video has given me some insights about it. PS: I am currently a Sophomore in Computer Engineering.
I’m glad it helped! Don’t burn out like I did and take care of yourself :D
Great overview of your time at CMU. I just graduated from Tepper with my MBA. I took the Principles of Computing course for fun and was blown away at the work load and how hard everyone had to work to get through the class. I can totally understand why someone would want to take a step back from that lifestyle.
Applying to Tepper for my MBA next year.
@@johnnyboy7538 good luck, lmk if I can help.
@@BlindTakes thanks man, just followed your channel, will DM you
Thank you for sharing. Your honesty and sincerity are greatly appreciated.
It sounds like the CS program at CMU is like many other programs regardless of degree. Focused on creating people that want to do research in the subject, publish papers, etc. And to some degree the professors are making newer versions of themselves. And this kind of a shame since we need more people that can do things quickly versus research a topic to the nth degree.
Thank you for sharing your experience and your take on the topic! Your video will definitely help more college students make informed and reasonable decision on choosing major and planning out early career path. I graduated from cmu in 2019 and had similar experience as yours. I have also seen way too many peers around me who got stressed out in college. Speaking up our experience really makes a difference to support each other. Please keep new episodes coming!
I go to grad school at CMU and I can confidently say CMU classes in general are difficult. The rigor is on another level. I find it hard to manage extracurriculars & coursework because of all the hours I have to put in.
Have any advice for increasing your chances of going to a good grad school if your gpa isnt that high?
@@dogpup3 My best advice would be to absolutely do well in undergrad but if you'r GPA isn't high, you can compensate in other areas to justify your GPA. Lots of project work, maybe a few publications & great recommendations & essays.
@@mveeSuppose if your Undergrad GPA is like 3.4-3.6
Is there any chances?
The intro courses for STEM subjects are difficult at any legit school. This is because the schools engage in a process of 'weeding out' at the lower level STEM course for reasons that may or may not be valid. Unfortunately this weeding-out disproportionately affects students from poor/disadvantaged/immigrant/minority backgrounds.
@@anuragg7007 Yeah
Awesome on you for your openness about this topic.
I really hope I can get into Info Systems like you did! I also want to double major and I find this really helpful in terms of gaining perspective
thank you sm for the honesty, i feel very similarly to you, I am applying to cmu and for the longest time I have been between info systems and CS and I have realized that for many reasons that you talked about and things I have considered, it is best to go with information systems
I'm a current 2nd year at cmu, and I just made the decision to go for the additional CS major. I also came from dietrich (I have the same shirt lol) and am a 112 TA, so this video is hitting eerily close to home. I really appreciate you leaving your insight here. I'll be back in a year to see how it goes.
sooo what'd you choose
thank you for the insights ❤
It’s cool that you shared this. Usually RUclipsrs just post their coding “highlight reels”
hey phil! great relatable video, i actually just switched my major for the same reasons! i really love programming and learning programming but the math courses were just not for me, luckily i switched to IT and have a concentration in app development and can focus a lot more on building my skills outside of my schoolwork:)
Yea discrete math is waaaaaay harder than calculus or linear algebra because they never taught us any logic in school. Hope you are having fun building apps to!
@@chuniphillogic is....logical. Discrete math isn't hard if you just break each step down logically.
Thank you for your honest & very insightful review about double majoring in CS at CMU !!
I haven't even finished watching it yet, but, as a freshman going to college for CS next year, this is an eye-opening video. Thank you.
I really don't like where the system is going: we study only to get good grades. And then after that we study only to crack the interview.
Everything is just to freaking impress somebody whether teacher or or employer. Only way I see to break out of the cycle is to start own business
Great honest assessment. Truth is not always easy to say. Good job.
It's not your fault if you see a lot of other people going through the same stress.
Some colleges are just grade intensive for no reason. Plus, some teachers can really be bad at teaching.
This is why online and books have high value. You can learn on your own pace and still enjoy your work.
I went through the same thing as a writer taking too many classes all wanting final papers.
Thank you for sharing your perspective.
Went to an ordinary state school for CS undergrad and graduated top of my class.
Then I got my MS in CS from a top school.
I could have dropped out of CS if I started at schools like CMU, UW, UCLA, Waterloo etc.
But You did amazing and that's what matters. Do you work now?
Where do you work now
thank you for making this video super helpful.
Good stuff man. It's quite similar over here at the University of Washington, but things get even tougher over here cause CS and many other majors are capacity constrained and super competitive to get in. All this stressful stuff is happening to first years building up even more pressure to do well so we can even get a major. Wish modern education would allow for more experimentation at the high level, cause I'd love to be able to tell if the higher level stuff is something I'd even be interested in.
Same! I'd love to just try out or Pass/Fail the harder classes to just learn and not worry about grades much.
That sounds more stressful to even declare a major at UWash. CMU SCS's primary CS major is by admission so that's not as bad. Everyone else can get an "additional" major which is essential the same without gen ed.
Great Post. You demonstrated great courage in telling it like it is and sharing your experience at CMU, especially about your mental health environment after spending too long studying, without being able to enjoy life by chilling out. I'm sure that you inspired others to think that their similar experience at CMU or other learning institutions, was validated. Life is far too short to stress out doing the things you love doing. It's important to be able to learn at your own pace. You may not win any awards, but at least you will have your health and happiness. That's what counts in the long term.
I see this at my school too and it’s insane the expectations some professors are and the department has on people. I code on my own and do projects for fun but I know can’t do a major I would struggle a lot.
I am an undergraduate college computer science student with 69 credit hours computer science is very theoretical and mathematical and a lot of heavy mental abstract problem-solving computer programming. I learned C++, Python3, and some computer programming languages.
I got into CMU's SCS three years ago (hs co19) but ended up having to go to my state school (UF) because the aid offer just wasn't enough. Getting into what was considered a top-tier school was literally one of the proudest moments of my life, and so having to give that up was crushing. Three years later, I'm reasonably happy at my current school, and I think I made the right choice. Still, seeing CMU's subreddit and discussion of some of the courses that I'd so eagerly researched the day I got in brings back memories. Good on you for prioritizing your mental health dude, great video!
I don't know your specific circumstances but that's a really tough choice you made. Giving up the prestige of a school like CMU isn't something a lot of people would've done, even if there's no way they could've afforded it. Based on what you've mentioned, seems like you made a difficult but mature choice.
Really happy for you and wishing you all the best with your future pursuits!
University of Florida is no joke. no matter how prestigious CMU is just know that UF is also a great accomplishment.
its heartfelt when i hear this from others since i did the same thing. i got an amazing scholarship from a less prestigious school compared to my top choice, and i had to go with it because i knew i couldn't afford my top choice since i didn't get much aid. in the end, im glad i made my choice. kuddos to you friend 👍
im EE, been in industry for 20+ year. biggest advice to young people i have, leave word "passion" at home. I have never been passionate about electrical engineering, it was just a job for me and still is. Yet, here i am, financially independent, very close for my investments to cover my living expense. Meaning, i dont need a job to live, and im in my early 40s. work is super easy, im on cruise control. many people look down on my cause "i dont work a job that i enjoy". but you know what? my 1 mil+ bank account does not care what other people think.
im majoring in physics and maths at cmu rn and i dont plan on taking any cs classes. a lot of people tell me its a waste cuz im at the best cs school in the world (maybe besides mit and stanford) but i am very happy never taking a single class of cs here. i took ap cs and system programming with C in high school and i can tell, even though im decent at coding, its just not for me at all. the stress i get from debugging and not knowing whats going on in the class and all of the written exams that are confusingly worded and hard to conceptualise, its just not worth the effort. im sure it pays well and that all of my cs friends will do very well in their lives after they graduate, but im glad that im studying what i am
Yeah I talked to alexei and he said you and Aj seemed stressed at cmu. Hope your mental health stays good 👍
Best thing is do not worry about many classes. We only need like 20-30% of the material. Just plod on and route memories or do tasks to pass classes not interested in. Otherwise will make you crazy
Thank you for your sincere warning
Thank you for your honesty. I know many people who dropped computer science because it was difficult but they're not so upfront about it. It's good to see transparency.
Im taking computer science now for bachelor's in my first semester
Same, I'm at my 4th year in CS, but I'm thinking about take a break or dropping out because I don't have research object for my thesis and I can't enjoy it anymore.
I also don't think any of that will help me to PASS the interview, because of my lack hacker rank knowledge. Now I don't care about my thesis & degree, and focus on how to get a job without CS degree and PASS the interview, in the next 3 months.
Thank you for sharing your experience.
"At the ceiling of my mental capacity"
That is the realest thing I've ever heard about CS. Trying to understand something is almost physical in its intensity...
I'm just a first year CS major though. Looking forward to learning more 😅
wait till your junior year, especially ur senior. I’m in my senior year and my close friend just switched to IT, which is crazy because of how close he was, but it keeps getting harder and harder
@@good-tn9srswitching junior or senior yr is baffling to me
@@PancakeTiger358 i know. however being a super senior in college for CS is extremely common and many people rather switch to a major they enjoy than suffer more
thank you for sharing this Phil, I'm a graduate in Finance transitioning into IT career and not good at math neither
Aww, you lived in New House! I was there the first year the dorm opened '04 - '05 - looks like you may have been SHS too :) Good on you for knowing your interests and limits at such an early stage of your life!!!
Speaking from half a lifetime later, I promise you that this display of wisdom on your part is worth more than the CS degree :)
I really appreciate this video. It confirms what I’ve been thinking. Seems like information systems jobs are easier brut still pay well. I got into a create your own degree program and it allowes me to cherry pick my classes.. we want to make a living but we want to be happy. And we want to learn but we don’t want to be isolated totally from society.
My husband got his PhD in machine learning at CMU. Students at CMU definitely study hard. I think about 10 students showed up at his office hours when I visited him one day. He had to hold additional office hours. The class (deep reinforcement learning) he was TA-ing for only had like 20 students that semester!
Grad school at CMU is difficult. The workload is insane.
@@ricobandy Hubby got his bachelor’s degree from one of the colleges where students study the most. He said cmu’s cs undergrad workload seemed comparable to his college experience.
I think just being in Pittsburgh can be tough. The weather is not the best. It is pretty depressing. It is also harder to make friends in grad school than to make friends in undergrad. He almost quit with master’s, but thankfully he saw it through. Having a good advisor is important in finishing Ph.D.
No one cares 😪😪
that's normal in our uni some lectures had like 2 or 3 students there were a lecture were it was only me in the class it was an advanced DB implementation (talking about how SQL optimizer actually were, and how to build your own DBMS in a bit more adv manner)
Really informative video. thnaks for sagrung all the insights.
I graduated from CMU's School of Computer Science long times ago. I have to agree with you that the CS classes were quite challenging, but many of them were exceptionally valuable. I still vividly recall courses like 211 (Data Structures) and 412 (Operating Systems) - they left a lasting impression, and I even have the books I used during those times. On the other hand, I found the software engineering course to be less impressive. Nevertheless, the education I received at CMU prepared me well for the challenges I've encountered in my work in Silicon Valley.
I've never worked on anything at a job as hard as the compiler design class i took in my CS program 😅
@@imveryhungry112 I took that class too. Yeah very hard but not as interesting as Operating System.
Good decision. As long as you learn to solve DSA problems and work on personal projects - you can fetch any good company job offer atleast new grad level.
That’s also what I thought! Thanks!
I went through the same thing when I was majoring in CS during my first year of college, and could not do any of the homework so, I ended up giving up on CS after the semester was over
I “dropped” CS at NYU and came to Japan 🇯🇵. Ended up going to Keio University here but with much LESS pressure on CS classes and much MORE time to work on my own projects/ internships etc.
I never regret leaving NYU and I also felt it was not worth it for a software engineer 🧑🏻💻.
but isnt being a worker in japan way harder than most western countries?
@@melehhaflafel5884 no :)
@@melehhaflafel5884 You are absolutely correct, the salary is not good enough.Besides Japan is not a good place for those who want to pursue tech trend. The industry is using old technology and working on out of dated projects. If you work there for 3 or 4 years and wanted to go back home and find a job, you will find yourself unable to catch up. Also the course quality Keio University provided is much worse than NYU's.
@@melehhaflafel5884 Nope, it all depends who you work for. Foreign companies (gaishi-kei) or leading tech companies pay well, use the latest tech trend, and offer competitive salaries with good work life balance. In fact many companies in Japan are now applying strict overtime policies.
@@user-dv9qi4oh5q I disagree. My experience in Keio has been great,and there are so many companies using latest tech stacks. Have you attended both Keio and NYU?
this guy got swe internships at amazon and apple, and now works at google, so he's in the top 1% of software enginners and perhaps the top 0.5% of CS majors, and if he says cmu cs is difficult then most of yall should not apply to the school at all
Hii I think your videos are super informative and as a prospective IS major I find them really helpful! Do you think you could make video explaining the key differences between CS and IS in terms of classes you took at CMU and if it affects job placement after you graduate.
Also just a side question: If you didn’t double major in CS for the 3 years that you did, would just a traditional IS track have prepared you just as well to get a job as a SWE or a job at FAANG?
Thanks so much!!
Thanks!
I will make videos about my 4-year IS major in the future, and I’d be happy to answer any questions through DMs! Stay tuned!
I think a tradition IS track will definitely NOT prepare you for SWE at big N. Many IS majors here can because CMU is excellent and they are excellent, not because the major itself is great. Personally, I self-studies CS and practiced interviewing, and that effort is not any less than taking more CS classes. It took me a while to realize that it’s the school name and effort that count, not the major on your resume.
Hope that helps!
I attended Pitt literally next door for CS and actually took a CS elective at CMU and i can definitely attest to the difficulty. Day 1 there were more students than seats, after the midterm maybe a third of the class was still there. Also the homework’s and exams were just on another level that I had never seen. I could barely understand the questions and answers are never found in notes or from lecture. Insane…I know the whole class was struggling too cause those exam curves were bigger than anything I had seen at Pitt.
CS is no joke, I had to transfer into an "easier" engineering major after the first 2 quarters. I had very little CS experience in high school while some of my classmates had been coding since early teens.......
A few hours of searching for where I'm supposed to put a missing semicolon in my turbo pascal compiler to get my program to actually run while I was at community college was enough to tell me computer science wasn't for me. But I actually enjoyed math until it started getting close to abstract algebra. I stopped at the bachelor's degree level and then went to graduate business school.
Is business school easier?
Hi Phil, I completely agree with your three fundamental reasons why students tend to drop CS, of which include me. I just finished my first year at the University of Toronto in CS, but then figured I hated it in my second semester, because I didn’t see myself programming from 9-5pm as a career after graduating, so I decided to drop it. It’s not even that I hate programming, like you, I like programming, but don’t like Computer Science - the stuff like Time Complexities and Theoretical Algorithms. After taking a lot of in-depth time to reflect and consider all my possible options, I opted for an Actuarial Science and Pure Mathematics double major, as it aligns with my passion, viability goals, and long-term happiness, with absolutely no driving-force in hype, especially with actuarial science lol. Just plain and simple “real” interest :)
To be fair, I went about going through a mathematics major due to pure interest and passion, but that doesn't pay the bills. I ended up becoming a software engineer after graduating despite having zero intention to and came to enjoy it with all the perks it offers (I was looking at becoming an actuary like everyone else, but I took 8 upper level stats classes and all that career is basically taking exams and being put in a back room ...you want that life? Nowhere near the pay of a SWE). I ended up enrolling in a master's program for CS too on the basis of finishing it on passion later on.
"Actuarial Science and Pure Mathematics double major" sounds way harder than CS lol
I feel that. At one point, I contemplated dropping the SWE career entirely, but I couldn't find a better career with more money and better prospects, and I enjoy coding a lot, so I stick with it.
Money is probably the NO.1 reasons why so many of us are in SWE. Nothing wrong with that!
Math majors can be quants which can pay millions in the U.S., but that route is also super hard and not for everyone. Data scientist is a more common career path there, I heard.
@@nokturnalafterdark Hi Casey. Personally, I have no interest in Software as a whole, so being able to program and debug in order to complete tasks as a SWE is not of interest for me. I completely agree with how the Actuary career can be at the start, just taking exams and being put in the back room is what many people have to unfortunately go through, which is why I am specializing in actuarial science at my uni. With this, I have the opportunity to skip 5 of the exams from course credits, accredited by the SOA, so the actual exam-taking is drastically shortened
@@chuniphil Personally, I found it quite easy to drop the idea of being a SWE, as I enjoy programming, but to its limits, for instance, I have no interest in software design, despite how greatly amazing the job prospects are. Actuarial Science and Math could be harder at times, depending on the courses and workload, however, it comes with great perks like skipping about 50% of the actuarial exams just by taking the courses and completing that degree. Considering I also want to go into research in actuarial science eventually, which a lot of people find odd, pure math does play a part in aiding that down the line :)
Thank you for the video.
OH GOD i am happy you mentioned discrete mathematics. i love math, i got a 98% in univ calc2 , lets just say i'm happy to have passed discrete math with a 74% lol. totally unlike any mathematics I've done and found it really tedious and unenjoyable
Yea DM is on a whole different level from Calc in college lol
I actually enjoyed it because I learned how to reason via logic. But the course is super stressful especially in the summer when the course is only half long.
My discrete mathematics professor (not at CMU) was really annoying. During the lectures he constantly asked "do you follow me?, do you follow me!" and then he would stomp his foot in anger.
@@chuniphil ya it was rough. i did find some parts fun tbh but i guess I just didn't enjoy it as much because i got a little behind and was having trouble understanding certain topics. i did get a 100% on our hand written proof though which made me like it a little more xD
The video's focus on technical expertise and its relationship to daily life raises important questions for me. Are interview skills the most important factor in realizing that computer science is not the right path for you? Or do you simply feel that you are not capable or willing to handle it? There is a significant difference between the two. While interview skills can always be learned and improved, they should not be the sole determining factor in deciding whether or not to pursue a particular field of study.
Only the truly passionate about coding and programming will survive in this course. And very competitive too.
As a CS graduate with specialization in Information security.
I knew this what I want to be future so nothing I can do about it but just survive thru 4-6 years.
Can you elaborate? I’m seeing a lot of comments about people who focus only on programming and coding and not on the science part of computer science being the ones who struggle. I’m doing a computer masters at northeastern, and I went into it because of how fast technology add evolving around me.. I wanted to understand it thoroughly. I studied history in undergrad at ucla and have 0 desire to be a programmer or code. I think it’s corny lol. Do I have chance in the masters if I’m doing it for the sake of personal interest, but don’t like anything about coding because of generally being disillusioned with tech?
Was* not add
truth🎉🎉
Pittsburgh is a rough city for some reason. Outside of the UPitt/CMU area things there are just ... dismal. The cloudy skies make it even worse
Yes!! Man, you really spoke my mind! Instead of going for masters in computer science or artifical intelligence, I am going for masters in IT which is more broad and has less algorithm and complex math stuff. Firstly, i am not internested in complex math and algo stuff. And like you said, I really see NO point of stressing out everyday of my life tackling complex math or algorithmic problems if I had selected those other more complex courses. I had already taken double majors in information systems and finance in my undergraduate years in Singapore and I sacrificed a lot and it paid off as it gave me good tech jobs in banks but honestly, I do not want that to happen again for my masters. I actually want a life and would love to allocate time and energy for my health and other parts of my life (hahas). I have the same conclusion as you, at the end of the day, i just need to land a good job after graduation and if there is any skills I am lacking, i am willing to learn them in my free time and chances are , they are not even covered in a CS major. 👍
Somehow, I found that the hype got the best of new generation students. In my old days, it was pretty clear between com-eng vs com-sci. Heck, vocational (on software eng) is actual real career path. My primary take is level of understand about what academic science vs engineering was lost, are student really aware what they getting into?
yup. we should all try to ignore the hype of any field of endeavour and instead, if possible, pursue the joy of things. regular panic attacks are a pretty strong clue of being in the wrong lane.
I go to a school that isn’t as highly ranked but still very difficult due to the popularity of the CS program and I 100% relate to a lot of things you said in terms of the time investment. In the beginning it was especially scary to me because there were people who had so much experience before joining while I hadn’t even taken AP CS. Luckily I think I actually fell in love with CS so I was able to catch up and get a good internship as well.
What school do you go to?
@@z1272 Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
@@coolrad4181 can you tell me more about Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute? Do you like it?
@@angelacoppola1133 I’m enjoying my time here because I think the CS program is more on the theoretical side which I really enjoy. There’s also a lot of opportunities for research and it has a really good open source club. It’s not the most social place though and it’s like 65/35 guys to girls but you can find a lot of people to talk to if you look for them. Why do you ask?
@@coolrad4181 My daughter wants to major in CS. She is starting to make her list on schools she might like to attend. I just wanted feedback. Thanks for responding.
Your mental health is most important take care of yourself brother.
Im still pretty early on in CS at a community college, but as the days go on, I realize how much I dislike coding. I do, howver, love math, even if it isn't my best subject. I really really enjoy Calculus and I cannot wait for Discrete Math. I would switch majors, but I have so many credits that I am gonna run out of financial aid soon, probably before my associate degree is even complete.
Math is fun its like a video game and gives you such a good feeling of euphoria when you get an answer correct.
CS grad from university of michigan who had NO CS background before, if you actual like it it's definitely worth it (doing a phd in it now lmao), but definitely don't do it just because you think it's the right thing to do, bc you will hate your life AND you can definitely get a job with out
also, I can relate to the insane stress / burn out / panic attacks, honestly for me as the classes got more advanced I got better at them (since I could actually code at all) and liked them more, ofc I like doing CS research, so they aligned with my interests further
I can say I never wanted to be a pure software developer (always planned on some further schooling ig), and a lot of technical requirements in undergrad were filled by my physics minor, so I didn't have to take many upper levels that were outside of my interests
CS70 (Discrete Mathematics and Probability Theory) at UC Berkeley was one of the hardest classes I ever took -- I had to study my ass off to get a decent grade in that class.
I really appreciate your insights. I'm a rising highschool senior planing to apply to colleges for CS/ECE, and apparently CMU is on the top of my list because of the reputation of its CS and ECE program. More importantly, it seems like CMU has courses that teaches students software engineering (17-214, 17-313, etc) in addition to the theoretical algorithms courses. For this reason, I would like to minor in software engineering if I were to get in. From your experience, could you comment on whether or not the software engineering courses really prepare students for working in the industry?
No SWE courses will ever be enough to prepare you, even at CMU. However, the CS algo and SWE courses are indeed super helpful to understand how software works. The CS minor or the SWE minor, plus some practice, should be enough for most jobs.
@@chuniphil Thank you for your answer! I think summer internships will be really helpful as well.
I didn’t see UC Davis on that list. CS was still difficult for most there. I wouldn’t do it again. All I learned from CS was that I didn’t want to program after college. I hated how difficult it became. At least the foundation in math and stats still helped me a bit.
This is why I always tell student definitely consider Software Engineering over CS. You get to do stuff not just learn theory. Nothing funnier than having to teach CS student front end development for their Capstone in a weekend. I wasnt even a Software Developer major, but Business Intelligence. Our programs had first year core so many of our classes crossed over. While wroting code is not instinctive, my troubleshooting skills in any language is off the chart. ❤
Here’s what I think some people don’t realize about cs (or really any major) at a hard (and good) university like cmu: just because you did good in terms of grades in high school doesn’t mean you’re good at it. If your high school was like mine, in each cs class the way it worked is everyone more or less either copied or heavily based their code off of someone else’s code in the class. They’d either just straight up copy it and change variable/function name or at least look at it to figure out what steps you need to do to accomplish the goal. Many of the people in university taking cs (and doing good) are the kid who everyone else copied. They didn’t just do good, they did good doing it all on their own and probably figuring it out in 1/4 the time as everyone else.
if I'm the person people copied is that good then?
@@spaceman-pe5je yes sir it means you wrre able to figure out something for your self that with better enhancing figuring out for your self would just be a habit and you will be a genius you can make a genius or born a genius your choice
@@JosephEarlRZafra well I'm probably not gonna study CS but that's good to know 😄
Discrete math is what made me realize it wasn’t for me. I spent HOURS on half of the hw…. Hours… data structures class, I was unaware how much programming you needed to know prior to the class, it’s basic but how basic is basic is what I didn’t understand. The first data structures assignment told me to create a program doing this and this and that. No instructions how to do it. Just to do it. The programming class I took prior did not prepare me at all for the data structures programming portion. It may be different for others but this is what was expected for me. I feel you definitely need to prep for each of these classes.
I have a question, do you feel taking mods like discrete math, algorithms and advance algorithms help you in understanding concepts in leetcode? I came from an information system background and my math, data structure and algo is fairly weak. I still work at a fairly decent job as an SWE but I’m constantly doubting myself whenever I face challenges along the way feeling like I lack knowledge in my fundamentals. Building a CRUD app is easy building an app that can scale and handle 1million users per second is hard. I feel I want to be part of the group building something challenging but just not up for it due to my skill set.
What did you switch to since you dropped your cs major? or did you just drop the high level cs classes but still are on track for cs?
Good on you man, keep with you info systems major and graduate to get a piece of paper, thats all HR cares about. Get real world experience with summer internships and if you really want to learn to code Udemy has sales every other week for a lot less than the cost of university.
You might want to try NEU, Northeastern University which is run on a totally different philosophy.
I'm taking cs at a community college. A lot cheaper and you learn the same introductory stuff. I'm taking data structures and discrete structures rn. I think I'm actually pretty alright at coding so far. But I definitely have to start studying cus I'm one of those ppl that procrastinates for days and then tries to cram everything an hour before an exam. It still works for coding related classes cus my studying is rlly just doing the labs and projects. That's when I play around with stuff and rlly learn the material so I don't have to study for a test, just look over how to use correct syntax. As I begin to learn about more complex structures tho, I have to do it more than once for it to rlly stick. And I rlly struggle with making myself do shit, which is why I don't self study, but it'd be great if I did
Incoming freshman in MCS mathematical sciences, was originally going to double major CS but with barely any prior coding experience (probably will take cs50 but thats it) was wondering if going for the ai degree will be any better for me
I find it fascinating how many people come into a CS major because they enjoy coding or simply because of job prospects or monetary reasons just to bow out before the really good classes start. Personally, I have an intense passion for mathematics, science, and complex technological systems... so much so that I actually changed from an engineering major to a comp sci because engineering was way too... practical... and applied. yick. Computational systems allow me to get my small desire for application to be fulfilled while still getting to spend most of my time in theoretical vector spaces where I genuinely belong.
I'm a last year master student in CS. Issues remembering stuffs after exam even those I ace.
Start becoming fun :) master thesis starting in 2 weeks after i finish another project (no summer holidays)
Edit: I need used leetcode. I need some reminder on data structures and complexity theory
Which major did you end up graduating with?
Also if you don’t have a CS major, on you r resume its fine to put just all the technical skills? That gets you the interviews?
As a full time employee in another career and being a parent, I made a big mistake taking on an accelerated CS Degree online. I knocked out the intro courses relatively easy, knocked out Calc 1 and Calc 2. Discrete Math 1 wasn’t too bad, but discrete math II is a nightmare. Compounded by the stress of limited time with my job, kids, and my dog battling with cancer 😢. I’m retaking my final this week. But extended Euclidean Algorithms, Big O estimates, worst case analysis, counting techniques with probabilities, recursive functions, RSA keys and cryptology, the stuff is not easy like most forms of math. Discrete math isn’t intrinsic to me at all. I’m gonna keep grinding but at 42 years old running off 3 hours of sleep at night is grinding me down.
Watch your health. I did a CS degree at 39 and yeah I finished it but it put some years on my health guarantee it took about 9 years off my total lifespan at least.
Can you tell us a bit about your experience in taking IS at CMU and how is the job prospect outlook.
I was given the opportunity to take 15127 and 21127( with Mackey) during one of the hs summers and it was the most stressful 2 months of my life; aside from the 8-hour total lecture time for both classes, I had to grind an additional 40+ hours each week just to stay on top of the psets and programming hws. It was honestly a relief when I got rejected by CMU during my college app and now I am so much more relaxed in pursuing what I like while running societies at my current uni
Did you choose cs still?
panic attacks during college would have sucked. that’s tough.
Honestly you can get a cs job without a degree often just by doing projects and internships till you luck out. Cs has a toxic interviewing process that's extremely stressful and for being the fastest growing profession, it has to be revised how it's done.
Your confusing IT vs CS. Anyone can get an IT job without a degree, like devOps. But when it comes to working a job at google developing the next algorithm that runs no slower then O(n) time that's when you'll need a CS degree. The problem is how many FAAMG companies are there requiring this skill? Most jobs won't...there's more general IT jobs out there then pure CS development jobs.
@@sirxavior1583 no I meant CS jobs, like Google. I have plenty of friends in the field who work on the same things as you mentioned.
@@sonatuh Earning industry certifications and having the right connections is another route. But it's more common to have a CS degree because it's sorta a checkbox that you meet some kind of standard. Were I live it's become the default standard. Of course when your on the job that's when your true colors shine though.
Phil you are describing my Electrical Engineering program with the work being insanely hard
Its okay, not everyone can handle it!
Have you considered studying UX/Interactive Design at CMU instead? You will still do coding, but it will lean more on user research etc.
I actually did look into it, and I didn’t pursue it for a few reasons: lower pay, more competitive, and not the kinda creativity I was looking for. The HCI program here is amazing, just not for me.
Great video. Although I was wondering, what do you mean by CS at the deepest level? Like getting a PhD?
By CS, I mostly mean the standard curriculum at most US colleges on the undergrad level, including discrete math, OS, etc. I’m an undergrad so that’s all I know. Grad school is a different beast entirely.
i think cs is for people who really want to get deep into the science of computers. a lot of people misunderstand the cs degree and they have to go thru so much information they dont care about and need
This is so motivated when I literally just submitted an application for my school
Don’t be discouraged! You experience might be totally different, and you can still have a great time in college!