I always have a little fight with myself, because in world of programming and everything related to computers, you'd need to always know your keyoard te best, and to that, you need to know the universals. I'm always scared I'd go to some place, And won't be able to use normal qwerty layout.
@@999samus7 Imagine you are doing a spoken interview and the team is very happy with your candidacy, and then they ask you to type some code.... I don't think that the "I can't type on this default keyboard" would sound very encouraging for them.
> vim > custom mechanical keyboards > rust next thing you will be telling me that your daily driver operating system is nixOS, and you make your own dogfood out of crickets.
Nice key map! One suggestion. An issue with home row shift key is what when you use shift while typing fast to capitalize the first letter you naturally roll from the shift to the letter in the exact same way you would roll from that same home row letter to that next letter. So there is no way your keyboard can tell if you are rolling between characters or shifting. If you want to type really fast in a situation where you are using capitals, it would improve your layout functionality even more to include in some way a dedicated shift key. All things considered, nice layout, thank you for sharing!
Great video! For me, the problem with even 40% keyboard is that my main language is Russian and it has 33 letters, and they are cyrillic (so, no dvorak/colemak/other keymaps). Of course I have to keep English keymap (for coding e.g.) so +1 layout at least.
For 40% it's just 2 or 3 rare letters that you put on another layer, also ь and ъ can be put on the same key with shift, as there are no words starting with capital Ь/Ъ. not a big deal you hold shift every day hundreds of times after all, and not complaining. I'm in the process of making 20% (24key split keypads), I did my own language layout because qwerty couldn't fit without cutting common letters. I'm pretty sure I can make it work for cirillyc as well, just more combos would be required and more time to learn.
Remember every key can be a modifier when held, the possibilities are almost limitless, so for rare letters you can hold any other letter and it will act as layer shift key.
Honestly i feel like this is so helpful. Additionally it makes RGB and dials have a purpose as Dials can now be your layer/profile switcher, and RGB can color code what the purpose of your layer is. "Orange? Im on symbols" "only 4 keys are highlighted in red and all other lights are dark? Oh im on WASD gaming mode"
That ferris keyboard seems very interesting. I've been looking up the repo to see if there are gerber files available to print the pcb's myself. I did find them finally between the releases. It looks like a great keyboard, but I will first go for the gergoplex
This week I finished setting up my layers on keyd and kmonad (software rather than firmware). I had to get creative with the use of capslock and the spacebar to make the most of a standard ANSI keyboard. I use Colemak, but I did not re-arrange any of the function, number and symbol keys, I didn't want to fight my motor memory that much. Home row mods are important for certain shortcuts I use in my IDE. I'm pretty happy with the result.
This is a great video. Very well scripted. As someone who is WELL deep down the QMK rabbit hole, I could tell that this was just the right mix of technical and layman to convince some people about efficiencies in layout. Well done! Will also be stealing some of your ideas when I move to a wireless Ferris :P
For sure make more content in this context. There is not that much of it. Observation while learning Colemak-dh: Now when I switch to Qwerty I really noticing how much more my fingers are traveling. So definitely invest some time to try different layouts and to see which one suits better for you.
I've been trying to decide whether I want to go 42 hey or 36 but because of gaming I was leaning towards 42. I may consider doing what you did and go with the 36 and create a separate gaming layer. Thank you!
36 won't suffice for strategies. You need number row to group and manage units. As for FPS you can manage with 36, I was playing Q3 for 8 years and never used number row. Q - rocket gun, E - rail, F - plasma, Z - gauntlet x c v can't remember anylonger. But it gets tricky if your game has more than 9-10 types of weapons.
Eh. While having a split ergo keyboard is nice, I feel like all those extremely minimal layouts sacrifice a lot of functionality for the bragging rights. Yeah, cool, you have everything on layers. So can I with my 58 key split ergo. But I don't *need* to have home row mods, excessive layers and all that jazz. If you were to say you did want that for 'ergo sake' - okay, I can implement the exact same layout you have, just with basically a ring of freely assignable keys all around. I feel like the form factor around 58 keys is the most comfy because you're not too big, not too small, and can reach everything nicely without having to go all out putting everything on layers all the time. Even with my 58 key, I always need a minute or two to adapt to a 'normal' keyboard again. I can't imagine how much more extreme this would be with a 34 key kb.
I totally get where you are coming from, and ironically, I feel the same way about keyboards that are less than 34 keys. The only I'd mention is that you got the process backwards. The idea was not to move to 34 keys because I wanted a smaller keyboard, it was actually the opposite. I don't need the keys so I got rid of them. I didn't start using homerow mods, because I didn't have enough keys to fit modifiers, I used them because they were more comfortable than having the physical keys themselves. Before switching to 34 keys, I had other keyboards, such as the kyria and nyquist. On the nyquist I originally had the mods where they normally were, and I didn't like that. On the Kyria I tried having mods on the thumb keys, and I also didn't like that. Now on al my programmable keyboards, regardless of the number of keys, I still use my 34 key layout. (I still use my nyquist for my work computer) also just on the point of layers, I actually think I'm pretty minimalist when it comes to layers, I only have 2 main layers, one for symbols and one for nav. Other than that I have a misc layer that has rarely used keys, but it's never been a problem for me.
Although I find those special keyboards very tempting, many arguments for this special key-placement only apply to non-touch typists: for example at 4:40, a touch typist would avoid using left shift while also using left buttons and so on. So the first thing to do before experimenting with special key-placements is to get in touch (sorry XD) with learning touch typing a layout. For that I recommend using mnemonic technics: I couldn't believe that you can learn the quertz-layout in 7h with such lessons, but it worked and thats how me and my siblings learned touch typing and my mother needed a 2to3-digit number of hours with traditional methods, when she was young. I think this learning technique is 1 to 1 applicable to others like Colemak etc. . For users of iso-keyboards (especially DE) NEO2 maybe is a good layout-choice too (not tested yet myself).
@@9s-l-s9 It was a course at a public professional school I visited as a teenager. The course was started with some relaxation techniques, followed by a story played from CD that we had to listen to with closed eyes and hands on the keyboard in the regular starting position. The story connected each key to an object (F key to a green frog etc. ). The spatial relation and interactions of the objects in the story corresponded to the position on the keyboard and the fingers used for these keys. While the story was told, we were instructed to follow the story by typing on the keyboard and visualise it as colourful and vivid as possible (with the use of as much senses as possible). The course took 4h with additional 3h of "break-time" in between , where we had to do regular typing exercises on our own. Any type of distraction (other than eating and drinking) was "prohibited" during the whole course and it was recommended to anything too distracting between the ending of the course and the next sleep (which is funny, because driving is an extreme cognitive demanding task and only some people had a driver or came by bike). Hope this was helpful. Although this exact course doesn't exist any more, there are many similar courses you can find online, I guess.
@@haifutter4166 Interesting. But how much did it actually helped? I mean, in the end you kinda have to type by muscle memory, don't you? So you don't have time to think about where a key is located.
@@9s-l-s9 Me and my sister couldn't touchtype before and rarely typed before at all. We both forgot most of the story after 1-2 weeks after the training and barely typed anything in the 1-3 weeks after the training and when we tried to type the next time, we intuitively knew where each key was without any thinking. So we did the whole learning of the key-layout in one day and only had to train after that for getting faster. I would say that was a huge win 😅 If I had to describe it, I would say, that training created a soft muscle memory in only 7h by programming the layout into the subconscious mind.
I find I use movement keys a lot, and they regularly don't get featured in those metrics about best layouts cause having hjkl in a convenient location is critical to my workflow
F keys are not so rarely used (at least not in my workflow). Can't imagine having to press 2 modifiers just to get to an F key, especially if I also want to combine it with another modifier like Shift, Alt, or Ctrl, or even Alt+Shift for example. Navigation keys are also very frequently used and their layout needs to be intuitive (i.e. definitely not Vim-like). Otherwise nice vid, thx.
Hey there, nice video :) Im thinking about getting the minidox (36 keys). So i am wondering how it is to use vim with the additional layers, meaning you ever felt locked out of some functionality because you had to press another mod key? eg the becomes c+mod1+]. did this kinda thing create problems for you?
Got it!! That's how you code. Great vid. How do you use mouse ergonomically? I hate reaching for mouse. My current job involves using mouse and keyboard equally.
I wish there was a good answer for this. Unfortunately most things require a mouse, so that's just something you'll have to live with, but there are a few things you can try: 1. Try to avoid as many mouse things as you can. For example you can use Linux with a window manager and vim as your editor to cut down on mouse usage. 2. Add as many functions to your keymap as possible. Things like macros or shortcut for common actions can help you avoid reaching for the mouse. 3. Try a trackball. I don't personally use one, but a lot of people really like them. Many people put it in between the halves of their keyboard.
@@winterNebs Thanks for the reply man all these are great ideas. Why aren't you making a keyboard with trackball or some digitizer? That will make ultimate ergonomic design. The trackball idea gave me a spark to use phone screen as mouse and place it near the space bar so I can just use my thumb without reaching out mouse. Thank you man.
What're the trade-offs between Ferris kyria and gergoplex? I think I've read that the kyria has the most severe Pinky offset which I like the idea of. I believe I've also read that with kyria you need a soldering iron to switch keys which I do not like the idea of. I want to have a cordless keyboard, are all three equally good in that regard?
Hi great video I am using the neo2 Layout on a mechanical 75 % Layout but I thought about building a more egonomic Keyboard Could you maybe do a video on the ferris?
This looks nice in theory but sometimes can be very inconvenient in practice. For example, let's compare the complexity of pressing Alt+F4 (close the app in Windows), Ctrl+Shift+P (Command Pallette in VS Code), Win+Shift+S (take a screenshot on Windows), Alt+3 (toggle the Search tool window in JetBrains IDE like Rider). The problem is that the most common hotkeys are designed with the regular QWERTY 80/100% keyboard in mind.
What if you need to use an another language to type in? For example Russian? Would you create an another layer/mode or would you create a seperate configuration?
Just make another shift-like key which shifts layers and put least frequent keys there. Put that key on the home row, so you don't need to stretch or move your fingers at all.
I’ve tried using the modifiers on the home row, but I’ve noticed that keys that also have a function while they are pressed, don’t work in combos anymore (see combos.gboards.ca/docs/install/) I’ve found out that these are quite powerful and I use them a lot for things like enter (when I press k and l) or even for often used shortcuts that require a lot of keys or strange key combinations with f keys in them. Also when I use vim and want to go down a few rows, I had to tap the key many times to go down, while if I don’t use modifiers on those keys, I can just press them until I am at the row where I want to be. I love your videos and I hope to see more.
1. for combos you should merge sevanteri's early combo PR github.com/sevanteri/qmk_firmware/blob/early_combo/docs/feature_combo.md#dictionary-management that should fix any of your combo problems. 2. for vim you should not need to hold hjkl frequently. For moving up and down, try relative line numbers and use movements like 3j etc.
@@winterNebs I will have a look at point one, but I already use this dictionary management. For point 2, you are absolutely right of course. I should get more used to switching fast to the number layer
Ok, it has been a few days, but I can report that it works, and it is awesome. Thank you so much for this. I’ve seen similar tips on Reddit now as well. Getting used to homerow mods is also rather easy. 34 keys is more than enough. In theory a gherkin could work, but I guess it’s nice to have your thumbs to do some work as well
Although dvorak is superior to qwerty I would recommend something like colemak-dh, workman or halmak instead. The overall effort of dvorak is low, but the effort is very unevenly distributed between your two hands. Dvorak was designed to put more work on the right hand because most people are right handed. By putting the vowels on the left and the uncommon punctuation on the left, the right hand has to move a lot for all the consonants and the left hand doesn't move much at all. In fact the right fingers move twice as far as the left hand when typing English. Layouts like workman and colemak-dh are much more even left to right. If you really want that high level of hand alternation that dvorak has then I would recommend halmak. That has a similar idea to dvorak with putting all the vowels on one side but is more even overall. It was designed using a genetic algorithm. If you have thumb keys and don't mind using them for letters then I would recommend you have a look at RSTHD layout too.
You can do it! I chose Dvorak because it comes standard as an accessibility option on all computers so there's no install needed to use it on a public computer like in a classroom, library, or office where bringing your own keyboard is impractical. Use what works best for you and don't give it up. You won't lose muscle memory if you ever want to go back.
You can do it! Although, as another Dvorak user, there are multiple other options in 2021 that works better than Dvorak. For example, I is used more than U, but U is on the home row. And A is used more than U, but A is under the pinky while U is under the pointer finger. I’ve never really tried any of the other layouts (yet), but I think Colemak-DH and Workman are promising.
1:28 Actually you missed option 4 Make your own layout. Since many custom keyboards have fully custom layouts. I use a layout I call CNAEY, and it puts the most common letter right under and close to the most common letters. I used a survey of most commonly pressed keyboad keys in ranked order. As well as looking at the most common letters in english. This is my layout on a Planck keyboard, ignoring the left side right side and bottom keys. ,LSFPBWHU. CNAEYGTIOM ;XQRVKDJZ/ If you took that layout and split it based on what hand presses which keys it would look like this. ,LSFP_____BWHU. CNAEY____GTIOM ;XQRV_____KDJZ/ The most common letters are ETIAONRDSHLU While the least common letters are PBVKCMQJXZYG The home row keys on this layout are CNAE____TIOM Anyway, this is likely too much info XD
You already left a comment on my other video about your layout. I asked you whether you used an actual optimizer since it seems like your layout perform even worse than qwerty (probably because of all the same finger bigrams). There's a specific reason I left out "option 4" because it is much harder than just making a symbols layer because all alpha keys are related to each other.
Qwerty werks, I don't want to run into keybinding issues on every new program. Also setting up my vim bindings again will be too much. I'm a qwerty boomer
Why might someone be concerned with ergonomics *and* want a one-hand layout? A) Gaming socially B) If they often use a mouse while typing for other reasons (say, using design software) C) If they have a condition that impacts the use of one hand D) Any other reason somebody might want to have a hand free while typing - snacking, pets, the list goes on! That being said, a trackpoint on both hands of a split keyboard layout is looking really appealing 😂
I prefer dedicated arrows and one shot shift key. And as for left ctrl I obviously use ESCAPE since it doesn't damage my left wrist. having arrow keys on a second later is terrible for highlighting in my opinion, hence why I decided to stick with my 48 keys ortholinear.
You mentioned using vim with workman. How was doing that switch? I'm thinking about switching to colemak or another alternative layout but I don't want to throw all that off. Especially if I wanna keep everything on the homerow, I need to modify not only vim but my window manager and any other programs that use vim keys, and using vim or vim like things without navigation on the home row just sounds cursed as hell
i use halmak (with qwerty types) and the modifier keys make the keyboard work like as if it was qwerty. i can use qwerty binds on halmak without too much effort and if i were to build such a keyboard i'd make the super key another modifier for the keyboard firmware and make it act like the game layer (switch to qwerty) and that's pretty much it
hjkl are essentially arrows but in vim world, stop using that. As for other navigation methods they are simantical or positional, it doesn't really matter where that letter is located, as long as you are very proficient at your language layout. For other programs make a layer for arrows. Hold like space and you have arrows under your fingers, you can place theme where hjkl were. Works in any program, not just vim-awere ones.
wow, this was suuuper helpful! And really well explained. I'd love to see more of these, for example on chording, and how you might be able to use callum mods or something similar to limit chording. Or just the different terms of QMK, like you did with mod-tap. That'd help a loooot for sure.
I am fascinated by your layout! But I am missing some keys: Del, ', ", ~,` .Could you please explain where are these? Don't you use Del or double quotes as a programmer?
Great vid. I'm curious, is there a program that would record the frequency of each key and mod combination of your current keyboard over a period of time to give you a breakdown of what characters and symbols you use the most? I imagine there could be some security concerns with a program like this though.
I hear what you're saying about choosing any layout other than qwerty, but on the other hand, if you regularly have to use other computers, like laptops or those belonging to someone else entirely, how do you find the muscle memory going back to qwerty after using something like colemak in the meantime?
Using a different layout such as Colemak on a splergo (split ergo) keyboard like the Ferris and going back & forth to the default qwerty layout on a laptop keyboard is easy once you've learned the new layout. Using the different form factor + layout makes them more distinct in your head & hands.
They are not mixing in my brain, because my keyboard has split space with many keys and split ortholoner design. It is similar to the phones, you can use colemak dh on the computer and still type qwerty on the phone even after many years of no qwerty on pc, the neuro paths are distinct enough so that they occupy different sectors in the brain.
Do you have a video on the Ferris yet? I'd love to get the GergoPlex, but I've already noticed that the stagger on my Moonlander simply isn't aggressive enough. The Ferris seems like a great solution.
The problem is not how efficient your symbol layer is. The problem is how you change your habit of typing ', ?, `, ", {, }, |, _, and etc. I have to say this is the most time consuming part of designing a new keymap.
one thing I dont understand. Youre using tap dancing on the home row for modifers, but arnt that what you use for vim keys? how do you move around in vim without holding down the buttons on the home row
My only question would how would I keep home row mod keys, since I like to use Vim and have other software configured to use "J" (using qwerty) to go down, move cursor, down, etc And sometimes I just keep the button pressed, is there a workaround for this instead of smashing the "J" to keep using the letter J? I'm pretty new to QMK.
I just ordered a Ferris v2.0 today. Looking to simplify and make my typing experience ergonomical. I am wanting to use a Colemak DH layout. I am new to QMK. How would I go about using your same keymap, but just changing your base Workman layer to Colemak DH?
ok I like the idea of homerow mods, but does it actually works ? Don't you get unwanted modifiers , or shifted letters fo -> of , le -> el etc ? I was trying to get it to work using kanata in my laptop's keyboard, would I have to buy a mech keyboard to be able to use home row mods ?
I tried using modtap a few times, but I use the keyboard for gaming too, and when the key feedback got delayed because it had to discern between tap and hold, it just didn't feel good.
One day i will die - dont think the payoff of a few words per minute when most of the time i am reading is worth the cost of learning a layout. Also i would have to switch keybindings in tools like vim to make the home row make sense ❤
Love this video!! I’m using Hands Down Layout (Alt-tx), on a 36 key board, and can’t agree more, “anything but QWERTY” Thanks for this. (Also, I would love a link to know more about your own board)
Thank you for this and your last video, I really upped my QMK game thanks to your inspiration. You know that you can assign mappings in your vimrc or is there another reason that you left it default? One Problem that I have with this, is that I use a lot of vim inspired Software and configuring it each time can be a bit of a hassle, so I am curious what your reasoning is.
You shouldn’t remap things in vim unless you want to play an extreme game of shuffle. Not to mention that most things in vim are mnemonic so the letter they are assigned to has meaning. If you find something awkward you can instead add a secondary bind, maybe using your leader key.
@@winterNebs I didn't have any side effects after remapping my bindings but I had to remap almost everything. After that everything is easy to reach, although it is certainly not mnemonic but YMMV. I guess it boils down if you want that little bit of extra ergonomics or to easily remember things.
love love love this. most people look at me like I'm crazy when i start talking about layout efficiency and layers.
you probably are
I always have a little fight with myself, because in world of programming and everything related to computers, you'd need to always know your keyoard te best, and to that, you need to know the universals.
I'm always scared I'd go to some place, And won't be able to use normal qwerty layout.
@@somnvm37 I just accepted it and if I'm forced to use qwerty, I'll just hunt and peck.
@@999samus7 Imagine you are doing a spoken interview and the team is very happy with your candidacy, and then they ask you to type some code.... I don't think that the "I can't type on this default keyboard" would sound very encouraging for them.
@@JamesSmith-ix5jd oh no, I'd do it, I'd hunt and peck my way through it, and there are a lot of programmers that code like that.
> vim
> custom mechanical keyboards
> rust
next thing you will be telling me that your daily driver operating system is nixOS, and you make your own dogfood out of crickets.
I use Vim, custom split keyboards and nix
I'm so deep into the rabbit hole
😢 i am on nix... typing in vim, build custom spli mechanical keyboard... what am i doing with my lifr
Nice key map! One suggestion. An issue with home row shift key is what when you use shift while typing fast to capitalize the first letter you naturally roll from the shift to the letter in the exact same way you would roll from that same home row letter to that next letter. So there is no way your keyboard can tell if you are rolling between characters or shifting. If you want to type really fast in a situation where you are using capitals, it would improve your layout functionality even more to include in some way a dedicated shift key. All things considered, nice layout, thank you for sharing!
I have proved the layout which he shared and I can relate
Great video! For me, the problem with even 40% keyboard is that my main language is Russian and it has 33 letters, and they are cyrillic (so, no dvorak/colemak/other keymaps). Of course I have to keep English keymap (for coding e.g.) so +1 layout at least.
For 40% it's just 2 or 3 rare letters that you put on another layer, also ь and ъ can be put on the same key with shift, as there are no words starting with capital Ь/Ъ. not a big deal you hold shift every day hundreds of times after all, and not complaining. I'm in the process of making 20% (24key split keypads), I did my own language layout because qwerty couldn't fit without cutting common letters. I'm pretty sure I can make it work for cirillyc as well, just more combos would be required and more time to learn.
I can share my custom cirillic layout if you want, it's quite comfortable.
Remember every key can be a modifier when held, the possibilities are almost limitless, so for rare letters you can hold any other letter and it will act as layer shift key.
@@JamesSmith-ix5jd That would be great! I'd like to see this layout
You can have separate layouts for English and Russian to support Colemak/Dvorak/etc. in the English layout without breaking the Russian one.
After years of trying to teach people about programable keyboards I have to say you explained it very well
Honestly i feel like this is so helpful.
Additionally it makes RGB and dials have a purpose as Dials can now be your layer/profile switcher, and RGB can color code what the purpose of your layer is. "Orange? Im on symbols" "only 4 keys are highlighted in red and all other lights are dark? Oh im on WASD gaming mode"
With the amount of effort he is putting in he is about to blow up! Just like nothisisjohn.
John the madlad
I got a ferris sweep recently and this video was really helpful in setting up my own layout. Much appreciated man.
That ferris keyboard seems very interesting. I've been looking up the repo to see if there are gerber files available to print the pcb's myself. I did find them finally between the releases. It looks like a great keyboard, but I will first go for the gergoplex
Yooooo past gerbers my way. Im trying to make a PCB for a Azeron styled keyboard build
This week I finished setting up my layers on keyd and kmonad (software rather than firmware). I had to get creative with the use of capslock and the spacebar to make the most of a standard ANSI keyboard. I use Colemak, but I did not re-arrange any of the function, number and symbol keys, I didn't want to fight my motor memory that much. Home row mods are important for certain shortcuts I use in my IDE. I'm pretty happy with the result.
Such an awesome video. I love the heat maps and you layout example for each problem you note. Will look for more content like this :)
dude, your videos really inspire me to build ferris sweep. I like the design and it's philosophy
Are you going to make a video on the Ferris ? I would like to know how it feels compared to gergoplex with extra pinky stagger.
This is a great video. Very well scripted. As someone who is WELL deep down the QMK rabbit hole, I could tell that this was just the right mix of technical and layman to convince some people about efficiencies in layout. Well done! Will also be stealing some of your ideas when I move to a wireless Ferris :P
Also, your moving of the gaming layer over one column is a revelation! No idea why I didn't think of that.
For sure make more content in this context. There is not that much of it.
Observation while learning Colemak-dh: Now when I switch to Qwerty I really noticing how much more my fingers are traveling. So definitely invest some time to try different layouts and to see which one suits better for you.
2:41 I've instantly felt sick when I saw this. not even a second has passed, just instantly
AAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Freaking beautiful! Take my money!
I've been trying to decide whether I want to go 42 hey or 36 but because of gaming I was leaning towards 42. I may consider doing what you did and go with the 36 and create a separate gaming layer. Thank you!
36 won't suffice for strategies. You need number row to group and manage units. As for FPS you can manage with 36, I was playing Q3 for 8 years and never used number row. Q - rocket gun, E - rail, F - plasma, Z - gauntlet x c v can't remember anylonger. But it gets tricky if your game has more than 9-10 types of weapons.
Eh. While having a split ergo keyboard is nice, I feel like all those extremely minimal layouts sacrifice a lot of functionality for the bragging rights.
Yeah, cool, you have everything on layers. So can I with my 58 key split ergo. But I don't *need* to have home row mods, excessive layers and all that jazz. If you were to say you did want that for 'ergo sake' - okay, I can implement the exact same layout you have, just with basically a ring of freely assignable keys all around. I feel like the form factor around 58 keys is the most comfy because you're not too big, not too small, and can reach everything nicely without having to go all out putting everything on layers all the time. Even with my 58 key, I always need a minute or two to adapt to a 'normal' keyboard again. I can't imagine how much more extreme this would be with a 34 key kb.
I totally get where you are coming from, and ironically, I feel the same way about keyboards that are less than 34 keys.
The only I'd mention is that you got the process backwards.
The idea was not to move to 34 keys because I wanted a smaller keyboard, it was actually the opposite. I don't need the keys so I got rid of them.
I didn't start using homerow mods, because I didn't have enough keys to fit modifiers, I used them because they were more comfortable than having the physical keys themselves.
Before switching to 34 keys, I had other keyboards, such as the kyria and nyquist. On the nyquist I originally had the mods where they normally were, and I didn't like that. On the Kyria I tried having mods on the thumb keys, and I also didn't like that.
Now on al my programmable keyboards, regardless of the number of keys, I still use my 34 key layout. (I still use my nyquist for my work computer)
also just on the point of layers, I actually think I'm pretty minimalist when it comes to layers, I only have 2 main layers, one for symbols and one for nav. Other than that I have a misc layer that has rarely used keys, but it's never been a problem for me.
Although I find those special keyboards very tempting, many arguments for this special key-placement only apply to non-touch typists: for example at 4:40, a touch typist would avoid using left shift while also using left buttons and so on. So the first thing to do before experimenting with special key-placements is to get in touch (sorry XD) with learning touch typing a layout.
For that I recommend using mnemonic technics: I couldn't believe that you can learn the quertz-layout in 7h with such lessons, but it worked and thats how me and my siblings learned touch typing and my mother needed a 2to3-digit number of hours with traditional methods, when she was young. I think this learning technique is 1 to 1 applicable to others like Colemak etc. .
For users of iso-keyboards (especially DE) NEO2 maybe is a good layout-choice too (not tested yet myself).
What specific mnemonic technics are you talking about?
@@9s-l-s9 It was a course at a public professional school I visited as a teenager. The course was started with some relaxation techniques, followed by a story played from CD that we had to listen to with closed eyes and hands on the keyboard in the regular starting position. The story connected each key to an object (F key to a green frog etc. ). The spatial relation and interactions of the objects in the story corresponded to the position on the keyboard and the fingers used for these keys. While the story was told, we were instructed to follow the story by typing on the keyboard and visualise it as colourful and vivid as possible (with the use of as much senses as possible). The course took 4h with additional 3h of "break-time" in between , where we had to do regular typing exercises on our own. Any type of distraction (other than eating and drinking) was "prohibited" during the whole course and it was recommended to anything too distracting between the ending of the course and the next sleep (which is funny, because driving is an extreme cognitive demanding task and only some people had a driver or came by bike).
Hope this was helpful. Although this exact course doesn't exist any more, there are many similar courses you can find online, I guess.
@@haifutter4166 Interesting. But how much did it actually helped? I mean, in the end you kinda have to type by muscle memory, don't you? So you don't have time to think about where a key is located.
@@9s-l-s9 Me and my sister couldn't touchtype before and rarely typed before at all. We both forgot most of the story after 1-2 weeks after the training and barely typed anything in the 1-3 weeks after the training and when we tried to type the next time, we intuitively knew where each key was without any thinking. So we did the whole learning of the key-layout in one day and only had to train after that for getting faster. I would say that was a huge win 😅 If I had to describe it, I would say, that training created a soft muscle memory in only 7h by programming the layout into the subconscious mind.
Great video! I'm really tempted to construct a ferris.
I find I use movement keys a lot, and they regularly don't get featured in those metrics about best layouts cause having hjkl in a convenient location is critical to my workflow
Great vid !
I have a moonlander M1 and I always looking for new keyboard tips. I'll try your number and mods !
With Kmonad you can do that with every keyboard. No need for expensive hardware
F keys are not so rarely used (at least not in my workflow). Can't imagine having to press 2 modifiers just to get to an F key, especially if I also want to combine it with another modifier like Shift, Alt, or Ctrl, or even Alt+Shift for example. Navigation keys are also very frequently used and their layout needs to be intuitive (i.e. definitely not Vim-like). Otherwise nice vid, thx.
This is the next step for vim users
What happened to your layout eval tool? Would love to try it.
Hey there, nice video :)
Im thinking about getting the minidox (36 keys). So i am wondering how it is to use vim with the additional layers, meaning you ever felt locked out of some functionality because you had to press another mod key? eg the becomes c+mod1+]. did this kinda thing create problems for you?
Please, PLEASE make a QMK video, i am struggling to death on creating a keymap for my 15 key pad, and dont have a template to even start with.
Got it!! That's how you code. Great vid. How do you use mouse ergonomically? I hate reaching for mouse. My current job involves using mouse and keyboard equally.
I wish there was a good answer for this. Unfortunately most things require a mouse, so that's just something you'll have to live with, but there are a few things you can try:
1. Try to avoid as many mouse things as you can. For example you can use Linux with a window manager and vim as your editor to cut down on mouse usage.
2. Add as many functions to your keymap as possible. Things like macros or shortcut for common actions can help you avoid reaching for the mouse.
3. Try a trackball. I don't personally use one, but a lot of people really like them. Many people put it in between the halves of their keyboard.
@@winterNebs Thanks for the reply man all these are great ideas. Why aren't you making a keyboard with trackball or some digitizer? That will make ultimate ergonomic design. The trackball idea gave me a spark to use phone screen as mouse and place it near the space bar so I can just use my thumb without reaching out mouse. Thank you man.
@@brainybeast9789 They do exist already, just not a priority for me at the moment
Great video. Can you make avides about the pcq to the key switch to the mapping.
Thanks.
And good look for school.
new video when
What're the trade-offs between Ferris kyria and gergoplex? I think I've read that the kyria has the most severe Pinky offset which I like the idea of. I believe I've also read that with kyria you need a soldering iron to switch keys which I do not like the idea of. I want to have a cordless keyboard, are all three equally good in that regard?
doesn't homerow mods have the issue of rolling?
Do you used an esp32 or what kind of microcontroller?
4:29 The argument you're trying to make here is only valid if you're limited to using only one hand.
Hi great video I am using the neo2 Layout on a mechanical 75 % Layout but I thought about building a more egonomic Keyboard Could you maybe do a video on the ferris?
How do you write ' and "?
How do you feel about using non-qwerty layouts with vim? Doesn't it feel weird for hjkl to not be all on the home row?
This man speaks the language of god
This looks nice in theory but sometimes can be very inconvenient in practice.
For example, let's compare the complexity of pressing Alt+F4 (close the app in Windows), Ctrl+Shift+P (Command Pallette in VS Code), Win+Shift+S (take a screenshot on Windows), Alt+3 (toggle the Search tool window in JetBrains IDE like Rider).
The problem is that the most common hotkeys are designed with the regular QWERTY 80/100% keyboard in mind.
How can you make the key that Enter when tapped, move to layers when hold?
bro, discord server where?
What if you need to use an another language to type in? For example Russian? Would you create an another layer/mode or would you create a seperate configuration?
Just make another shift-like key which shifts layers and put least frequent keys there. Put that key on the home row, so you don't need to stretch or move your fingers at all.
At the end for gaming if this was really used you shouldn’t use wasd
I’ve tried using the modifiers on the home row, but I’ve noticed that keys that also have a function while they are pressed, don’t work in combos anymore (see combos.gboards.ca/docs/install/) I’ve found out that these are quite powerful and I use them a lot for things like enter (when I press k and l) or even for often used shortcuts that require a lot of keys or strange key combinations with f keys in them. Also when I use vim and want to go down a few rows, I had to tap the key many times to go down, while if I don’t use modifiers on those keys, I can just press them until I am at the row where I want to be.
I love your videos and I hope to see more.
1. for combos you should merge sevanteri's early combo PR github.com/sevanteri/qmk_firmware/blob/early_combo/docs/feature_combo.md#dictionary-management
that should fix any of your combo problems.
2. for vim you should not need to hold hjkl frequently. For moving up and down, try relative line numbers and use movements like 3j etc.
@@winterNebs I will have a look at point one, but I already use this dictionary management. For point 2, you are absolutely right of course. I should get more used to switching fast to the number layer
@@Hendori3 the doc is just a random one, you need to merge the whole branch
Ok, it has been a few days, but I can report that it works, and it is awesome. Thank you so much for this. I’ve seen similar tips on Reddit now as well. Getting used to homerow mods is also rather easy. 34 keys is more than enough. In theory a gherkin could work, but I guess it’s nice to have your thumbs to do some work as well
@@Hendori3 Playing the Vim Adventures game is a great way to learn all the vim commands in my experience. There were many that I had no idea about.
I didn't expect to see one of Putin's speeches as a test dataset but ok
Im going to try to learn dvorak... Its hard to ditch qwerty😭
Although dvorak is superior to qwerty I would recommend something like colemak-dh, workman or halmak instead. The overall effort of dvorak is low, but the effort is very unevenly distributed between your two hands. Dvorak was designed to put more work on the right hand because most people are right handed. By putting the vowels on the left and the uncommon punctuation on the left, the right hand has to move a lot for all the consonants and the left hand doesn't move much at all. In fact the right fingers move twice as far as the left hand when typing English. Layouts like workman and colemak-dh are much more even left to right. If you really want that high level of hand alternation that dvorak has then I would recommend halmak. That has a similar idea to dvorak with putting all the vowels on one side but is more even overall. It was designed using a genetic algorithm. If you have thumb keys and don't mind using them for letters then I would recommend you have a look at RSTHD layout too.
You can do it! I chose Dvorak because it comes standard as an accessibility option on all computers so there's no install needed to use it on a public computer like in a classroom, library, or office where bringing your own keyboard is impractical. Use what works best for you and don't give it up. You won't lose muscle memory if you ever want to go back.
You can do it! Although, as another Dvorak user, there are multiple other options in 2021 that works better than Dvorak. For example, I is used more than U, but U is on the home row. And A is used more than U, but A is under the pinky while U is under the pointer finger. I’ve never really tried any of the other layouts (yet), but I think Colemak-DH and Workman are promising.
so you also like rust. thats nice man. i am also in school btw. XDDD
1:28
Actually you missed option 4
Make your own layout.
Since many custom keyboards have fully custom layouts.
I use a layout I call CNAEY, and it puts the most common letter right under and close to the most common letters.
I used a survey of most commonly pressed keyboad keys in ranked order.
As well as looking at the most common letters in english.
This is my layout on a Planck keyboard, ignoring the left side right side and bottom keys.
,LSFPBWHU.
CNAEYGTIOM
;XQRVKDJZ/
If you took that layout and split it based on what hand presses which keys it would look like this.
,LSFP_____BWHU.
CNAEY____GTIOM
;XQRV_____KDJZ/
The most common letters are ETIAONRDSHLU
While the least common letters are PBVKCMQJXZYG
The home row keys on this layout are CNAE____TIOM
Anyway, this is likely too much info XD
You already left a comment on my other video about your layout. I asked you whether you used an actual optimizer since it seems like your layout perform even worse than qwerty (probably because of all the same finger bigrams). There's a specific reason I left out "option 4" because it is much harder than just making a symbols layer because all alpha keys are related to each other.
Qwerty werks, I don't want to run into keybinding issues on every new program. Also setting up my vim bindings again will be too much. I'm a qwerty boomer
Where is your escape key? Isn't esc used a lot in vim?
My escape key is actually a combo, so I’d press Q and Space to get escape
@@winterNebs Ah cool 😁 You should do an addendum on combos in qmk. I have mod tap keys but haven't tried combos in qmk yet
'Good' Layout < 'Own' proficiency < 'Actual' uses < 'Value' created < 'Meaning' for mankind
I’m currently working on my own 34 keys layout, this video is released with the perfect timing ! Thank you ! :)
Why might someone be concerned with ergonomics *and* want a one-hand layout?
A) Gaming socially
B) If they often use a mouse while typing for other reasons (say, using design software)
C) If they have a condition that impacts the use of one hand
D) Any other reason somebody might want to have a hand free while typing - snacking, pets, the list goes on!
That being said, a trackpoint on both hands of a split keyboard layout is looking really appealing 😂
I prefer dedicated arrows and one shot shift key. And as for left ctrl I obviously use ESCAPE since it doesn't damage my left wrist. having arrow keys on a second later is terrible for highlighting in my opinion, hence why I decided to stick with my 48 keys ortholinear.
fucking wild i used to watch u kz and now i randomly find u for some keeb content
Great content, you just speak a bit fast for non native speakers. Thankfully RUclips can slow down the video speed 😂
You mentioned using vim with workman. How was doing that switch? I'm thinking about switching to colemak or another alternative layout but I don't want to throw all that off. Especially if I wanna keep everything on the homerow, I need to modify not only vim but my window manager and any other programs that use vim keys, and using vim or vim like things without navigation on the home row just sounds cursed as hell
i use halmak (with qwerty types) and the modifier keys make the keyboard work like as if it was qwerty. i can use qwerty binds on halmak without too much effort and if i were to build such a keyboard i'd make the super key another modifier for the keyboard firmware and make it act like the game layer (switch to qwerty) and that's pretty much it
hjkl are essentially arrows but in vim world, stop using that. As for other navigation methods they are simantical or positional, it doesn't really matter where that letter is located, as long as you are very proficient at your language layout.
For other programs make a layer for arrows. Hold like space and you have arrows under your fingers, you can place theme where hjkl were. Works in any program, not just vim-awere ones.
wow, this was suuuper helpful! And really well explained. I'd love to see more of these, for example on chording, and how you might be able to use callum mods or something similar to limit chording. Or just the different terms of QMK, like you did with mod-tap. That'd help a loooot for sure.
This is madness ... i want to build a corne instead of a sofle now ...
This was confusing AF. Perfect!
0:45 Backspace is very often used...
I am fascinated by your layout! But I am missing some keys: Del, ', ", ~,` .Could you please explain where are these? Don't you use Del or double quotes as a programmer?
~ is on my symbols layer, but the rest ar combos. On qwerty del would be a+space, backtick would be z+space, and quote is ;+backspace
@@winterNebs Thx , did not notice the file: github.com/winterNebs/qmk_firmware/blob/master/users/winternebs/combos.def
Great vid. I'm curious, is there a program that would record the frequency of each key and mod combination of your current keyboard over a period of time to give you a breakdown of what characters and symbols you use the most? I imagine there could be some security concerns with a program like this though.
I hear what you're saying about choosing any layout other than qwerty, but on the other hand, if you regularly have to use other computers, like laptops or those belonging to someone else entirely, how do you find the muscle memory going back to qwerty after using something like colemak in the meantime?
Using a different layout such as Colemak on a splergo (split ergo) keyboard like the Ferris and going back & forth to the default qwerty layout on a laptop keyboard is easy once you've learned the new layout. Using the different form factor + layout makes them more distinct in your head & hands.
They are not mixing in my brain, because my keyboard has split space with many keys and split ortholoner design. It is similar to the phones, you can use colemak dh on the computer and still type qwerty on the phone even after many years of no qwerty on pc, the neuro paths are distinct enough so that they occupy different sectors in the brain.
Do you have a video on the Ferris yet? I'd love to get the GergoPlex, but I've already noticed that the stagger on my Moonlander simply isn't aggressive enough. The Ferris seems like a great solution.
The problem is not how efficient your symbol layer is. The problem is how you change your habit of typing ', ?, `, ", {, }, |, _, and etc. I have to say this is the most time consuming part of designing a new keymap.
The argument about QWERTY vs non-QWERTY is a bit of a blanket statement. You are assuming all people mainly type in English.
6:47 this is why i wish ESDF was the standard movement keys for gaming (also bc it uses the same resting hand position as typing)
Hey! Your "Home row mods" link gave me a ";" at the end. Maybe an youtube bug.. Awesome video, by the way!
one thing I dont understand. Youre using tap dancing on the home row for modifers, but arnt that what you use for vim keys? how do you move around in vim without holding down the buttons on the home row
Isn't the "inefficiency" of qwerty just based on the English language?
My only question would how would I keep home row mod keys, since I like to use Vim and have other software configured to use "J" (using qwerty) to go down, move cursor, down, etc
And sometimes I just keep the button pressed, is there a workaround for this instead of smashing the "J" to keep using the letter J?
I'm pretty new to QMK.
I just ordered a Ferris v2.0 today. Looking to simplify and make my typing experience ergonomical. I am wanting to use a Colemak DH layout. I am new to QMK. How would I go about using your same keymap, but just changing your base Workman layer to Colemak DH?
im thinking the same, and I didn't find some key functioning in QMK that showed in this video, otherwise I would make it myself.
ok I like the idea of homerow mods, but does it actually works ? Don't you get unwanted modifiers , or shifted letters fo -> of , le -> el etc ?
I was trying to get it to work using kanata in my laptop's keyboard, would I have to buy a mech keyboard to be able to use home row mods ?
Garcia Jessica Young Deborah Rodriguez Amy
I have seen two of your videos and I have to say that I love them. Thank you so much
I tried using modtap a few times, but I use the keyboard for gaming too, and when the key feedback got delayed because it had to discern between tap and hold, it just didn't feel good.
One day i will die - dont think the payoff of a few words per minute when most of the time i am reading is worth the cost of learning a layout. Also i would have to switch keybindings in tools like vim to make the home row make sense ❤
Fuck yeah, I was wating for this, thx.
how did you find the most used characters in programming languages
Ok but how do you long press a dual function key then? What if i want to press "a" and hold it to write "aaaaaaa"
Your videos on this are so approachable but full of information! High quality as well. Definitely deserves more attention.
Love this video!! I’m using Hands Down Layout (Alt-tx), on a 36 key board, and can’t agree more, “anything but QWERTY” Thanks for this. (Also, I would love a link to know more about your own board)
Layout code is in the description, the keyboard is the ferris 0.1 compact that is open source here: github.com/pierrechevalier83/ferris
This is really interesting, where can I buy one of these keyboards?
an ortholinear and multiple layer keys changed my life
yeah colemak dh is love
where are the quotes and double quotes in this layout????
i gotta watch this at .75 speed to understand
what if you need to use a mod key thats not in combination with a letter key? like ctrl-alt-left, ctrl-shift-%, or alt-f4?
Works just fine.
Qwerty is the standard
these symbol layers all dont have the ? mark :(
so if 'a' is control how do you do 'ctrl a' ?
Nice add more vids on this topic
wait do u play tetris with this
Great video. Thanks
How the f... Do you add a new layout? XD
Thank you for this and your last video, I really upped my QMK game thanks to your inspiration.
You know that you can assign mappings in your vimrc or is there another reason that you left it default? One Problem that I have with this, is that I use a lot of vim inspired Software and configuring it each time can be a bit of a hassle, so I am curious what your reasoning is.
You shouldn’t remap things in vim unless you want to play an extreme game of shuffle. Not to mention that most things in vim are mnemonic so the letter they are assigned to has meaning. If you find something awkward you can instead add a secondary bind, maybe using your leader key.
@@winterNebs I didn't have any side effects after remapping my bindings but I had to remap almost everything. After that everything is easy to reach, although it is certainly not mnemonic but YMMV. I guess it boils down if you want that little bit of extra ergonomics or to easily remember things.
how do you mod+ ?