It's a rare pleasure to hear 12-string guitars demonstrated by someone who knows how to play a 12-string. They sound fantastic. I want a 360 and a 660.
When have you ever heard someone play a 12-string that doesn't know how to play a 12-string? I'm so exhausted from this comment. It's like someone who has never driven a car before, jumping into a tractor trailer and just start grabbing gears. If someone starts playing a 12-string, chances are, they already know how to play. Over 40 years. I've never heard someone fail at it. Low level musicians don't play 12-strings.
The trouble of the narrow fretboard 330-12 can be remedied with a well-cut nut, spaced out and better centered on the fretboard, with tighter spacing within the octave pairs. With the factory Ric 12-string nut, you can't even play an open D chord cleanly. A good luthier is a very valuable asset.
Problem there, especially on a Ric, is the string order of the bottom 4 courses. Heavy strings carry more amplitude. When you downstrum hitting that heavier string first it vibrates up against the adjacent thinner octave string at the middle point of the string where amplitude is greatest due to that being the lowest point of tension along the string length. In short, BUZZ - and NOT the good kind.
I bought a 660-12 in 2001 and love it. It had Pyramid flats on it when I got it as apparently that is the "classic" sound. In short order, though, I found them extremely painful to play. I tried several roundwound sets but the best sounding were...wait for it...Rickenbacker strings. I had my Takamine acoustic 12 changed to Rickenbacker stringing. If/when I get the correct nut, my Dano 12/6 doubleneck will be set up like a Rick too.
I have a few sets of the Pyramid strings too. Used one set, but didn’t like them either. I think I might have Ric strings on the 330. I know there are D’Addario on the 660, as I can see the ball ends. 😁 I reversed the strings on the Squier Venus 12 I had. Still didn’t sound great…. 😕
Very nicely done (and more knowledgeable) vid about the Rick 12’s. I suspect that because of the more limited market base for them, not as many RUclips guitar guys are hip to the differences between the High Gains and toasters, for example. Also, you touched on what the fifth knob actually does, instead of just acknowledging it’s existence but with mystery. So many other vids are just, “Hey, here’s a Rickenbacker 12-string.”, play a watered-down Byrds riff on it, then move on as if they’re all the same and the fifth knob and it’s tonal effect doesn’t even exist, let alone demonstrate it. I must also admit to a bit of personal bias favoring the toasters (damn you, George Harrison😁). And also, thank you for the rare mention of the 660’s wider neck, which is a blessing for us sausage-fingered vermin. My stash consists of a 660/12, a 1993plus (another they blessed with 660 necks), and a discontinued 350v63/12. As mentioned previously, the tone through a Vox amp is timeless, however a different yet equally valid approach for more modern things has been to play them through a Roland JC-120. Crystalline sweetness. Again, thank you for this much-needed vid. ETA - beware the JangleBox JB3. Once you turn it on, you’ll never want to turn it off, regardless of the guitar in your hands.
Good overview of two superb instruments and a candid look at the design shortcomings. Roger McGuinn did a good introductory video on playing electric 12 with some great advice on how to cope with the narrow neck (similar to chording on a mandolin). I have a 330/12 (replaced the hi-gains for toasters) but if I had the masses of money it would take, I'd seek out a 660. great vid.
Excellent comparison. Only confounding variable would be the semi hollow vs solid comparison which you noted. I enjoyed the video though as it’s helpful and informative.
Congratulations. I've been watching Rickenbacker videos here on youtube for many years. Hands Down, your video is the best one I've seen. In 9 short minutes you cover pretty much everything anyone needs to know about 12 string Rickenbackers. Nothing comes close to these guitars. For me, they are the only 12 string electrics that both jangle AND chime. However, they cost a pretty penny. And if one knows what they are doing, almost identical sounds can be produced - in the Recording studio at least - using Teles or Strats with properly configured effects chains and amp configs. Not so easy to do playing live though. And that's where the RIC 12s, especially played through VOX amps , really shine. Thank You and All the Best.
Wow.....a LEFTY Rick 12??? Call me GREEN!!! Special order?? Bet it took a while, and a lot of scratch too. Congrats! Bet it sounds awesome. Fireglow est La Bamba!
Hail fellow lefty! I have a lefty Jetglo 330/12 that I purchased new in 1990. I had the toaster-tops installed a part of the order. Great guitar with iconic sound, but an impossibly narrow fretboard! LOL
GREAT video! Ultimately I think most of us want to capture the jingle/jangle chime like Roger and George. I plug my 1993+ into the JangleBox - I'm just saying.
Rickenbacker rules! The best 12 string guitar ever. I'm listening to Mike Nesmith and his special 12-string Gretsch. I don't hear that sound! Works like a six string guitar!
My 1971 360/6 Deluxe ( I bought new in November 1971 ) has what is referred to as "transitional High gain pick ups" that were released for three years,1969-1971, before the high gain that are used now came about. In hindsight I wish I had managed to get mine with toaster style, the transitional are fine but lack any real twang to speak of, indeed they seem much beefier. it's not so one dimensional a sound, but... it's still a steady player after all these years but boy, still pine for a 360/12....
Thanks. I didn’t know about the transitional high-gains. The later ones don’t have much twang either. Very mid focused. I still like them, but very different to the toasters.
I've been playing Rics since '98 and I tend to move away from the super jangly sound. I like running my Rics through a JC22 and also use two reissue Ampegs for a more lush warm tone. That's just me. I'm not trying to copy the Beatles or the Byrds.
Excellent video-- very informative!! I own a Roger McGuinn 370-12 signature model, but I want to buy another electric 12-string! I have been checking out Guild-- there is a less expensive model Starfire i-12($649) that has a single coil pickup (brighter, more chime?) and the more expensive Guild Starfire iv-12 ($1449) with humbuckers! Are you familiar with these? I would love to know your opinion!! Is there any Danelectro model that is better, closer to the Rick 12-strings?
I’m not familiar with the Guilds. You don’t see those around here. Had someone bring in a really nice Guild acoustic recently, that he bought from the US. Not up on the current Danos, but had someone bring in a blue sparkle one that was nice. Plenty of chime from the lipstick tube pickups and the neck was nice. Wider like the 660-12. Being hollow, they are similar to a lot of Rics.
@@aphekrecordingstudio4274 I have both: a 660-12 and a 12/6 Dano doubleneck. The Dano 12 is okay but the Rick has "that" sound. As I said above, as soon as I can get an aluminum nut that's cut correctly, I'll switch the Dano 12 to Rickenbacker style stringing.
@sornord Be careful whoever does it and make sure you space the strings within each course a bit apart. If not on the downstrum, the heavier top string vibrates against it's thinner octave = buzzy. Learned this the hard way converting a Gretsch and had to do a new nut all over again. Fun times with a twelve. Amplitude's a bi...
Hi gains are brittle sounding. Toasters have more character and breath. I have a 325v63 and a modified 320. I ditched the hi gains in the 320, and the wiring, and added Ric HB1 pickups. I never got along with hi gains.
I think it’s because the intonation is never perfect, so the pitch differences keep changing, depending on where you are on the neck. Leading to a moving/phasing type sound, rather than a fixed pitch change.
Regarding the mixing control knob, in the Nov. 1987 Guitar Player interview with George Harrison, describing his Ric 12, he said that it had one smaller control knob that "didn't seem to do anything".
I think the little knob goes gradually between the bridge and neck pick ups. If you have the bridge pickup on full treble and the neck pickup on full bass, the little knob can go smoothly from one to the other, allowing you to pick any "blend" between the two.
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Those toasters sound so much better. I put them on my 2018 360W. Wow!
It's a rare pleasure to hear 12-string guitars demonstrated by someone who knows how to play a 12-string. They sound fantastic. I want a 360 and a 660.
When have you ever heard someone play a 12-string that doesn't know how to play a 12-string?
I'm so exhausted from this comment. It's like someone who has never driven a car before, jumping into a tractor trailer and just start grabbing gears.
If someone starts playing a 12-string, chances are, they already know how to play. Over 40 years. I've never heard someone fail at it. Low level musicians don't play 12-strings.
The trouble of the narrow fretboard 330-12 can be remedied with a well-cut nut, spaced out and better centered on the fretboard, with tighter spacing within the octave pairs. With the factory Ric 12-string nut, you can't even play an open D chord cleanly. A good luthier is a very valuable asset.
Problem there, especially on a Ric, is the string order of the bottom 4 courses. Heavy strings carry more amplitude. When you downstrum hitting that heavier string first it vibrates up against the adjacent thinner octave string at the middle point of the string where amplitude is greatest due to that being the lowest point of tension along the string length. In short, BUZZ - and NOT the good kind.
I've got a 330 just like the one in the video... I've not had the issue you speak of... maybe I have different shaped hands.
I bought a 660-12 in 2001 and love it. It had Pyramid flats on it when I got it as apparently that is the "classic" sound. In short order, though, I found them extremely painful to play. I tried several roundwound sets but the best sounding were...wait for it...Rickenbacker strings. I had my Takamine acoustic 12 changed to Rickenbacker stringing. If/when I get the correct nut, my Dano 12/6 doubleneck will be set up like a Rick too.
I have a few sets of the Pyramid strings too. Used one set, but didn’t like them either. I think I might have Ric strings on the 330. I know there are D’Addario on the 660, as I can see the ball ends. 😁 I reversed the strings on the Squier Venus 12 I had. Still didn’t sound great…. 😕
Those toasters sound SO much better.
love your vidfeo, sir :). i just scored a 660/12 and got some super lite (8-40) set of slinkkies....... hava great rikky day :)
Congratulations. Very fine choice. Very cool guitars.
Very nicely done (and more knowledgeable) vid about the Rick 12’s.
I suspect that because of the more limited market base for them, not as many RUclips guitar guys are hip to the differences between the High Gains and toasters, for example. Also, you touched on what the fifth knob actually does, instead of just acknowledging it’s existence but with mystery. So many other vids are just, “Hey, here’s a Rickenbacker 12-string.”, play a watered-down Byrds riff on it, then move on as if they’re all the same and the fifth knob and it’s tonal effect doesn’t even exist, let alone demonstrate it.
I must also admit to a bit of personal bias favoring the toasters (damn you, George Harrison😁).
And also, thank you for the rare mention of the 660’s wider neck, which is a blessing for us sausage-fingered vermin.
My stash consists of a 660/12, a 1993plus (another they blessed with 660 necks), and a discontinued 350v63/12.
As mentioned previously, the tone through a Vox amp is timeless, however a different yet equally valid approach for more modern things has been to play them through a Roland JC-120. Crystalline sweetness.
Again, thank you for this much-needed vid.
ETA - beware the JangleBox JB3. Once you turn it on, you’ll never want to turn it off, regardless of the guitar in your hands.
Thanks.
Great video, however not one example of of the bridge pickup? That bridge stinging treble is the Rik sound most people might identify with. YMMV
Thanks. Bridge pickups near the start. 1:43.
Good overview of two superb instruments and a candid look at the design shortcomings. Roger McGuinn did a good introductory video on playing electric 12 with some great advice on how to cope with the narrow neck (similar to chording on a mandolin). I have a 330/12 (replaced the hi-gains for toasters) but if I had the masses of money it would take, I'd seek out a 660. great vid.
Toasters all day long
I grew up on Peter Buck's jangle. This is a real treat. Thanks
Both are lovely.. If I could only have one the 660..
Yep! Waited 25 years and searched non-stop the last two for a non-TP (because TP$$$) and just scored today! Can't wait for the FedEx truck :-)
Very Nice. I'm a Lefty and Dream of Owning a Ric 12 String. I may have to have one made, someday.
Yes, Rickenbacker aren’t always great at looking after you guys.
Excellent comparison. Only confounding variable would be the semi hollow vs solid comparison which you noted. I enjoyed the video though as it’s helpful and informative.
Thanks.
Congratulations. I've been watching Rickenbacker videos here on youtube for many years. Hands Down, your video is the best one I've seen. In 9 short minutes you cover pretty much everything anyone needs to know about 12 string Rickenbackers. Nothing comes close to these guitars. For me, they are the only 12 string electrics that both jangle AND chime. However, they cost a pretty penny. And if one knows what they are doing, almost identical sounds can be produced - in the Recording studio at least - using Teles or Strats with properly configured effects chains and amp configs. Not so easy to do playing live though. And that's where the RIC 12s, especially played through VOX amps , really shine. Thank You and All the Best.
Thanks. Very generous compliment.
I concur.
I own a lefty 370/12 string which was made for me in 1996 fireglow. A real gem of a guitar.
Wow.....a LEFTY Rick 12??? Call me GREEN!!! Special order?? Bet it took a while, and a lot of scratch too. Congrats! Bet it sounds awesome. Fireglow est La Bamba!
Hail fellow lefty! I have a lefty Jetglo 330/12 that I purchased new in 1990. I had the toaster-tops installed a part of the order. Great guitar with iconic sound, but an impossibly narrow fretboard! LOL
Such a unique tone! Love Rickenbackers!
Great tutorial. I need to watch it a few more times. A lot of good information. My dream is to have a rickenbacker 12 string. Like Roger McGuinn.
Have you looked into getting a 370/12 RM Signiture?
GREAT video! Ultimately I think most of us want to capture the jingle/jangle chime like Roger and George. I plug my 1993+ into the JangleBox - I'm just saying.
Rickenbacker rules! The best 12 string guitar ever. I'm listening to Mike Nesmith and his special 12-string Gretsch. I don't hear that sound! Works like a six string guitar!
I would pick the solid body. Interesting sound!!
My 1971 360/6 Deluxe ( I bought new in November 1971 ) has what is referred to as "transitional High gain pick ups" that were released for three years,1969-1971, before the high gain that are used now came about. In hindsight I wish I had managed to get mine with toaster style, the transitional are fine but lack any real twang to speak of, indeed they seem much beefier. it's not so one dimensional a sound, but... it's still a steady player after all these years but boy, still pine for a 360/12....
Thanks. I didn’t know about the transitional high-gains. The later ones don’t have much twang either. Very mid focused. I still like them, but very different to the toasters.
I have a 330-12 exactly like yours from 2017.
Exactly the same. Mine is also from 2017.
I've been playing Rics since '98 and I tend to move away from the super jangly sound. I like running my Rics through a JC22 and also use two reissue Ampegs for a more lush warm tone. That's just me. I'm not trying to copy the Beatles or the Byrds.
I tend to prefer them with a meatier tone as well. The bright jangle, isn’t their natural sound.
Excellent video-- very informative!! I own a Roger McGuinn 370-12 signature model, but I want to buy another electric 12-string! I have been checking out Guild-- there is a less expensive model Starfire i-12($649) that has a single coil pickup (brighter, more chime?) and the more expensive Guild Starfire iv-12 ($1449) with humbuckers! Are you familiar with these? I would love to know your opinion!! Is there any Danelectro model that is better, closer to the Rick 12-strings?
I’m not familiar with the Guilds. You don’t see those around here. Had someone bring in a really nice Guild acoustic recently, that he bought from the US. Not up on the current Danos, but had someone bring in a blue sparkle one that was nice. Plenty of chime from the lipstick tube pickups and the neck was nice. Wider like the 660-12. Being hollow, they are similar to a lot of Rics.
@@aphekrecordingstudio4274 I have both: a 660-12 and a 12/6 Dano doubleneck. The Dano 12 is okay but the Rick has "that" sound. As I said above, as soon as I can get an aluminum nut that's cut correctly, I'll switch the Dano 12 to Rickenbacker style stringing.
@@sornord I agree. Only Rics have that sound. A Dano is a lot cheaper though.
@sornord Be careful whoever does it and make sure you space the strings within each course a bit apart. If not on the downstrum, the heavier top string vibrates against it's thinner octave = buzzy. Learned this the hard way converting a Gretsch and had to do a new nut all over again. Fun times with a twelve. Amplitude's a bi...
@@roughcutguitars I know. A 12 string nut is quite difficult to get right.
I love the 660/12
It’s wild how much different toasters are versus hi-gain. Toasters all the way!
Yes. Very different tone. I like both.
Hi gains are brittle sounding. Toasters have more character and breath. I have a 325v63 and a modified 320. I ditched the hi gains in the 320, and the wiring, and added Ric HB1 pickups. I never got along with hi gains.
That nice byrds sound. Sounds as if there's bit of phasing. Must be a unique quality of these
I think it’s because the intonation is never perfect, so the pitch differences keep changing, depending on where you are on the neck. Leading to a moving/phasing type sound, rather than a fixed pitch change.
Ah good point. Yep the physics of that makes sense @@aphekrecordingstudio4274
nice
Regarding the mixing control knob, in the Nov. 1987 Guitar Player interview with George Harrison, describing his Ric 12, he said that it had one smaller control knob that "didn't seem to do anything".
Tom Petty said he had a conversation with George about that. George said the same thing and Tom explained it to him. :)
@@aphekrecordingstudio4274 Imagine how Petty must have felt about that...explaining a Ric 12 to George Harrison.
I think the little knob goes gradually between the bridge and neck pick ups. If you have the bridge pickup on full treble and the neck pickup on full bass, the little knob can go smoothly from one to the other, allowing you to pick any "blend" between the two.
@@sornord The bridge pickup volume isn’t affected. It just turns down the neck pickup.
Very informative
Thanks.
Intro music is it a complete song to download or listen to ?
No, just done for the videos.
Great tone, horrible neck design and outrageous price. Worst guitar in my collection.
My dream guitar (660)....Blue Burst please, thank you! Hell, I will even settle for a 6 string!
Brighter doesn’t always mean better, many of the “sweeter” tones of the toasters get lost in the mix anyways
It's cool to have the brightness because you could always back at all. I'd rather subtract than have to add....
But definitely understand your point❤