I was born in 87, so this is one of the first big cases I remember hearing about all the time as a kid. This and OJ/Princess Diana/Tonya Harding. This is also possibly the only true crime case I can think of where I think the perps are both guilty and not guilty at the same time. Great example of two things being true at once. In that sense, in a weird way, I find them relateable. It doesnt hurt that I grew up in a well off but still abusive family, though. Its easy for me to relate to feeling both spoiled/bratty at certain parts of my life and alone/scared/misunderstood at others. Gives me a unique perpective. PS: My algorithm knows I have a crush on Javiar Bardem so recommended a bunch of stuff related to the new Netflix Menendez mini-series for me. I didnt even know Timesuck had a Menendez episode! Pleasantly surprised and not sure how I missed it!
Man, heard this last year and really thought the brothers were monsters. Watched the Netflix doc and think the parents were the monsters. This case was wild. Also, I’m talking about the doc with the court tv footage. Not the dramatized show.
Okay... I'm gonna put it out there; if you like it, you can take it, if you don't, send it right back... an 80s greatest hit cd but it's Dan singing all the songs! Just an ideaaaa!
I did not expect this Suck to be so fuckin jam-packed full of weird ins and outs, crazy characters, and whacky details! One of my new favorite episodes.
Gonna listen to it now.. but did anyone see the SNL skit that was done back then about these brothers crying on the stand about sexual abuse? Because men being sexual abused is funny? Disgusting. Imagine doing that today.
Consider that the SNL writers didn't buy into their bullshit story and was lampooning their dog and pony show in their skit. Try to remember that SNL is a comedy/satire, key word being satire. If they can make fun of a then 12 year old Chelsea Clinton going through the awkward preteen phase that all preteens go through but in the public eye then why should a pair of whimpering, whining, quivering, crybaby killers be spared the same treatment? It was not the SNL writers that made it a point to ridicule their claims of sexual abuse. In fact, there is no mention of sexual abuse whatsoever in that skit. It was fake Erik (Rob Schneider) and Lyle (John Malkovich) alleging that the real murderers of their parents were their long lost brothers, Danny and José Menendez Jr. Frankly, I believe more that Danny and José Menendez Jr. exist in real life than I will ever believe in Erik and Lyle's claim that they were defending themselves from their victims, both of whom they ambushed and gunned down in cold blood. Besides all that, it was not like SNL's audiences were determining Erik and Liar's fate. On the contrary it was the juries who were seated at their trial, half of which who seemed more than willing to buy into their bullshit defense theory, which means that the skit had little to no effect on how the jury ruled. 30 years later, the Menendez brothers and their defenders cry foul over this bit, neverminding the fact that had they not murdered their parents in the first place SNL would not have been gifted such fertile material to work with. The only people keeping that rather unremarkable skit relevant today are the dipshits on social media that want the brothers set free.
I actually loved the walk down memory lane. But, I still take issue with "Grunge Style". It's cold and wet here in the Seattle area. To us, layering was survival.
I called 1-800-BUSINESS after last week's episode and it brought me to this episode. The brief mention of OJ Simpson made me think that he would probably be a decent suck subject now that he died recently.
Tell me you don’t know anything about incest families without telling me you don’t know anything about incest families. There actually was a lot of corroboration for sexual abuse in this case aside from the cousins but I guess watching an entire six month long trial is too much work for most people. I think I’ll agree with the actual experts who interviewed and evaluated the brothers for hundreds of hours while they were in jail. Some of whom were the countries leading experts in child abuse, trauma, rape and fear response. Dr Ann Burgess, Dr Stuart Hart, Dr Ann Tyler, Dr John Conte. Paul Mones himself did psychological abuse evaluations of the brothers too. You don’t get two separate hung juries with most not voting for murder just because someone presents you a sob story.
You missed the part where incest survivors and other psych experts with no stake in this spoke out saying their claims did not make sense. And profiles do not keep molesting their adult children while simultaneously doing everything in their power to help them become independent.
You neglected to mention that in the 17 page letter the deputies found, Lyle writes this: "Only you and I know the truth. Only you and I know the secrets of our family's past. I do not look forward to broadcasting them around the country. I would rather try to escape or die. I struggle with my belief that men take responsibility for their actions. Pleading abuse is not taking responsibility... What we did in August was a mistake as far as I can tell. I don't know what I can do about it..." This was written in April or May 1990, long before the Oziel tapes had been allowed in and before the brothers had revealed the abuse to their lawyers or psychiatrist. It's actually a good indication that the defense was not made up. Btw the deputies admitted later in a press conference that Lyle and Erik had never actually tried to escape. I think you also forgot to mention that they found naked pictures of the brothers as children taken from the neck down (their heads were cropped out) and focused on their genitals. It's child porn and there's no wholesome explanation for it. A neighbour also testified that Jose had shown her and other guests a sexually explicit film depicting children being graphically sexually abused and that he found it hilarious how uncomfortable everyone was and boasted that he'd shown it to his kids.
why are there never a source on where the information comes from like a link, in the long list of where to buy your companies items, some of your time suckers like to be able to research things after you discuss them
You’re bias. * Erik menendez throat injury at age 6 * Lyles hernia at 7 * Grooming and incest facts (not like they can google this) * Erik menendez letter to Andy Cano at age 16-17 depicted his sexual abuse * Lyle menendez discussion with Donavon that was recorded by Robert rand about the SA * Lyle Menendez telling Glenn Stevens about the abuse before the murders * Lyle molesting Erik (8 and 6) * Huge personality change for Erik and both Lyle that corresponded with the abuse timeline * Andy remembers the slat that was used to lock the bedroom of Eriks * Erik saying “you’re so lucky you have a lock on your bedroom” to Andy as a child * Same story 33 years later * 2 anti alibis * Lyles hyper sexuality * Lyles constant dissociation * Erik Menendez throwing up, sweating, dissociating while recounting his abuse to his therapists and lawyers * the fact that they each molested their “least favourite” child. This was no coincidence. * When evaluating the Menendez brothers, Lyle and Erik, psychologists determined they were mentally about 10 years old. * Lyle Menendez’s essay about child molestation and sexual abuse in the middle school * Lyle not wanting to testify in the first place * Cheri Woods, a Hollywood madam told the New York Post that Jose Menendez frequently abused the call girls he ordered, and had a preference for teenagers. “He insisted that the girls be no more than 13 years old and petite,” Woods remembered. “But I never employed minors, so I sent my youngest looking girls.” Woods said the girls would come back terrified and covered in bruises and scratches. He wanted to act out violent rape fantasies and inflict pain on them. Woods said she stopped accepting his calls. * Lyle’s university friend who stayed with the family for a few months. He testified that when he would be hanging out with Erik in his room, Jose would kick him out. That he would spend hours in the room, that Edward was not allowed near the door, and that Erik wouldn’t be seen again all night. This is very important corroborative evidence that Erik’s sexual abuse had continued to age 18. Edward also stated that nothing could be heard through the walls in the house, which goes against the prosecutors theory that the maid would have heard the arguing the days before the shooting. He also witnessed Kitty abusing Lyle, even as a young adult. * Neighbour Alicia Hercz testified she attended a dinner at the Menendez home where Jose screened the film Pixote, in front of her and his sons. It is a violent and graphic movie about a teenage boy and a trans girl who are sex trafficked and abused. * Jose worked for RCA records, and was responsible for bringing the boy-band Menudo to America. Menudo was often described as “creepy”, because the boys were very young (12-14), and would be replaced when they got too old. Recently, numerous former members have come out and said they had been sexually abused during their time in the group. Jose has not so far been named specifically, but it’s important to keep in mind these were the people he chose to surround himself with. * Actor Roddy McDowall, who worked with Menendez on the film Fright Night 3, described him as “the worst human being he [had] ever met”, “A terrible man” and that he carried “an aura of evil” around him. * Kirsten smith, Eriks high school girlfriend testifies that Erik calls her up before a date crying hysterically (this correlates with the time of when Erik would be sexually abused; before dates and before dinner) * Erik Menendez recording with reporter Robert rand 2 months before the murder talking about how he would shower with both lyle and Jose * Lyle Menendez bed wetting * Kitty Menendez suicide note describing Jose as abusive, like her father, her father who was abusive and a child molested * Kitty Menendez telling her therapist that “lyles girlfriends are taking him places he wasn’t ready for sexually” * Lyle Menendez stuffed animals * 17 years old bring stuff animals to school and raising its hand instead on his * Spending hours playing with stuff animals as a teenage boy * Attachment to Cookie Monster * Sending a letter to his girlfriend signed with all the stuff animals names, maybe 50+ names * All the animals having personalities * Collecting animals * It’s unintentional play therapy * Jose Menendez stabbing himself with needles, burning himself with candles and letting his kids pinch him til he had welts to prove he felt no pain. Lyle latter doing this * Jose Menendez knocking a man out for cutting him off * Jose Menendez “robbery prank” on Lyle and Erik and Diane. Not caring Lyle was pointing a gun at him * Jose Menendez believing in reincarnation to the point where he trained fear out of himself * Jose Menendez playing showering “pranks” on Erik and Lyle, turning the water all the way cold and making Erik go hysterical * Perry burtman stating that Jose Menendez said Lyle was out (on the night of the killings) when Lyle was home all day. * Diane Vander Molen testifying about then 8 year old Lyle Menendez being afraid of being molested by this father before bed * Diane had been assaulted by 10 year old Erik and 13 year old lyle during rough housing, assault stopped immediately when Diane said stop * Lyle Menendez at 13-14, climbed on top of Diane, Diane had gave him a look and he immediately stopped and apologized. * behavioral psychologist had said this was an reenactment of an reoccurring action, as well as the fact that Lyle Menendez hadn’t started dating at this time. * Diane would cower in fear of kitty’s rages and mental instability at 17 to 23 * Diane Vander Molen said the brothers would also fight over who got to sleep in bed with their mom when their father was not home. Lyle was 15, Erik was 12. * Diane getting yelled at by kitty for falling asleep at a gay mans house, kitty screams “gay men have sex with women all the time!” * Kitty menendezes had told her psychologist that the infidelity wasn’t the only thing upsetting her weeks before the killings. He tried to find out more; all she would say is that it was "sick and embarrassing secrets".
GROOMING AND CONTROL * Lack of privacy for both Erik and Lyle Menendez * Lack of Privacy is known to be one of the biggest warning signs of sexual abuse. Lyle and Erik were taught from a very young age that they had no right to their own bodies, and certainly no right to privacy. * Showering together with their father at the ages of 21 and 18 * Jose drilled a hole in the ceiling so that he could spy on Erik in his bedroom * Kitty Menendez tapping Eriks phone and listening to all his phone calls * Showering * :The boys’ cousins Diane Vandermolen and Alan Anderson both witnessed the father, Jose showering with Lyle and Erik. Obviously, completely inappropriate and abnormal behaviour. But Jose worked in his sadistic side as well. He would shut the boys inside the shower and turn the water on all the way hot, or all the way cold. Lyle’s roommate when he was attending Princeton University, Donovan Goodreau, spoke to reporter Robert Rand about this as well. He said that Lyle told him their father would bathe with them, and had molested them in the tub. Diane Vandermolen also witnessed Kitty bathing Lyle when he was 14. Lyle testified that his mother would touch him inappropriately under the guise of helping him wash his hair. * Dietary control of everything consumed * Putting lyle Menendez of fax magazine diets * Not allowing Lyle Menendez to consume dairy or sugar for the entirety of his childhood without physical repercussions * * Changing: * Lyle and Erik both had no ability to lock their bedroom doors for most of their lives. Jose would undress his sons, and undress in front of them. Kitty began undressing in front of Lyle when he was a teenager. * Lyle and Erik’s aunt, Marta Cano, testified that when Erik was over playing with her son he always locked the bedroom door. She also overheard him tell her son, Andy, he was lucky that he could lock his door. Lyle’s university friend, Edward Fenno, said that Erik and Lyle both had a habit of immediately locking the door behind them when they entered a room. * Lack of Autonomy: * Lyle and Erik were not given the right to say “no”. If they tried, they were threatened, beaten, or both. For example, when Erik tried to resist a sexual assault, Jose held a knife to his throat. When Lyle was caught eating a cookie, he was punched in the stomach. Dr. Conte testified that Erik and Lyle were objectified by their parents, and that they were spoken to and about like property. Such as Jose telling Lyle; “What I do with my sons is none of your business.” or “It’s not your little brother, it’s my son.” * This lack of autonomy left Lyle completely incapable of making decisions. After his parents death, he attempted to make his uncle, tennis coach and bodyguard replacement authority figures in his life. Asking them constantly to tell him what to do. Lyle was also easily manipulated by people like Craig Cignarelli, Donovan Goodreau and Dr. Oziel. * Erik was also easily manipulated, and had a hard time saying “no” to people. Erik also stated that he did not feel that his body belonged to him, and that it was owned by his father. * Isolation * Prohibition of friends, discouraged * (Forming friendships is crucial to a child's development; any parent who tries to prevent this has an agenda in doing so) * Lyle had over 55+ coaches and wasn’t allowed to a close relationship with any of them * Insist on time alone with a child with no interruptions. * Family members confirmed that Jose would haul one or both boys into a room and lock the door; the rule was, according to Kitty's nephew, Brian Andersen, Jr, that while that was taking place, you were not permitted to even go down the hallway. * Buy children expensive gifts or give them money for no apparent reason. * While obviously these people are all very rich, Jose was, according to neighbors, prone to "showing off" through the kids, but more importantly, his growing wealth and power made it easier to control his sons and manipulate them into silence. * Excessively buying of material possessions, that's a giveaway also. That's what predators do with their victims; give them gifts, money or "special attention" in order to gain the child's trust. In Jose's case, he likely did that in order to exert more control over his sons and as I said, as a way to manipulate them. He demanded that his sons obey him, and he prescribed to a rule of patriarchy in ancient Rome; a child is property of his or her father and the father could in fact, sentence his child do to death if he saw fit. It's easy to see how the seeds were planted that would eventually explode. * Treat a particular child as a favourite, making them feel 'special' compared with others in the family. * Jose did this with Lyle, who was his namesake, and his "favorite". Although Jose victimized Lyle sexually, physically and mentally, he also made no secret of the fact that Lyle was going to be a more improved version of himself, even naming Lyle after himself (Joseph Lyle Menendez) * He spent more time with Lyle, to the point where family referred to Erik as the "throwaway child". CREDIBILITY ISSUES WITH THE PROSECUTION * Pamela Bozanich * prosecutors of the infamous McMartin Preschool case * Stated “Men cannot be raped, as they don’t have the necessary equipment.” * Mrs. Bozanich was also a prosecutor in the infamous McMartin pre-school case. The most expensive trial in American history. The interviews of the children in this case were later found to be extremely improper. The children made accusations that they had been “flushed down toilets into secret rooms”, “saw witches fly” and “traveled in hot air balloons.” The children also named actor Chuck Norris as one of the abusers. The case was eventually dismissed. * Prosecutors repeatedly questioned Erik Menendez on his sexual orientation, and argued he had enjoyed the abuse. They also attempted to present the theory he was in an incestuous relationship with his brother, Lyle. * Jury member Hazel Thornton stated the majority of discussion by the jurors was on the topic of Erik being gay. * “They want this jury to believe... That it’s okay to rape homosexual boys! Because ‘they like it’ or ‘they had it coming, or they’re only faggots and we don’t care about them!” -Leslie Abranson * DOMINICK DUNNE * Dominick Dunne was a True Crime writer who covered the Menendez Brothers trial for Vanity Fair. He wrote some of the most biased and scathing articles about the brothers. He accused them of lying about the abuse and even faking their tears. One juror even said Dunne paid him to lie to the press about Lyle and Erik high-fiving in-between testimonies. A rumor that still persists (although, the court footage clearly shows it to be a lie.) But behind the scenes, Dunne had a very different opinion. He privately told fellow reporter, Robert Rand, that he believed Lyle’s sexual abuse testimony. Dunne and prosecutor Pamela Bozanich spent lunch breaks gossiping about Erik’s sexuality. Dominick and Pamela were both convinced Erik was gay. Pamela even suggested Erik liked “having sex” with his father, and her partner asked Erik multiple times if he and his brother had ever had sex with each other. Dunne himself was gay, though his close friends say he was full of internalized homophobia. Pamela told Dunne about a photoshoot Erik had done, which she described as “homoerotic”. Dunne made it his mission to find these photos, and he managed to track down the photographer. He had a shirtless photo of teenage Erik printed out for himself. He kept it framed in his house, and would show it off to people. The photographer later said in an interview that the photoshoot itself was “sad” and “off putting”. That Erik had no life behind his eyes. Meanwhile, in the press, Dunne continued to slander the brothers. He called them liars, actors and spoiled brats. Even though in private he had admitted to believing them, and to feeling a kinship with Erik. But in the press, he had no problem discrediting and ridiculing a rape victim for defending himself. Plus, creepy letter he sent to Erik “oh, how often you come into my mind…” * KURIYAMA * Kuriyama insinuated they were incestuous * He asked like, a million questions about Erik sleeping in Lyle’s bed, wearing his tennis shorts and all these innocent things trying to make them seem sexual. Asked if he had “homosexual relations with anyone other than your brother”, which Leslie objected to. * He asked Casey Whalen so many questions about this hot tub that was in a hotel room, asking how long they were in it, how close they were, if they were dressed or naked. It was a big tactic that never should have been allowed.
TESTIMONY - Skip Lowe, a talk show host; testifies that Erik Menendez was pinched right in front of him at a dinner party, Jose saying “shut up dummy!” While Erik turned red - Mary Theresa Dominguez testifying about the size of the shower, (about 8ft.) Testifying about finding 2 large boxes in 2 different locations (master bedroom and library) of male pornography magazine’s and videos. Box is about a ft wide, and 4 inches high. Testifying how sad Erik and Lyle seemed before going to play tennis “like they were going to a funeral.” - Edward Fenno, Lyle’s University friend who stayed with the family for a few months. He said that on a regular basis, he would be told by Mr. Menendez to leave Erik’s room. That Jose would stay in the room for hours, he could not go anywhere near the door, and Erik would not be seen again all night. - Diane Vandermolen, Andy Cano, Kathy Simonton, Alan Anderson and Marianne Cano all testified they had witnessed Jose abusing the boys physically, and had themselves been abused by Jose and his wife while staying with the family. - Actor Roddy McDowall, who worked with Menendez on the film Fright Night 3, described him as “the worst human being he [had] ever met”, “A terrible man” and that he carried “an aura of evil” around him. - The boys’ tennis coach Charles Wadlington described Jose as “the worst parent [he] had ever met”, and cried on the witness stand as he described what he’d seen. He also expressed he wished he could have saved Lyle and Erik. - Neighbour Alicia Hercz testified she attended a dinner at the Menendez home where Jose screened the film Pixote, in front of her and his sons. It is a violent and graphic movie about a teenage boy and a trans girl who are sex trafficked and abused. - Lyle’s university friend who stayed with the family for a few months. He testified that when he would be hanging out with Erik in his room, Jose would kick him out. That he would spend hours in the room, that Edward was not allowed near the door, and that Erik wouldn’t be seen again all night. This is very important corroborative evidence that Erik’s sexual abuse had continued to age 18. Edward also stated that nothing could be heard through the walls in the house, which goes against the prosecutors theory that the maid would have heard the arguing the days before the shooting. He also witnessed Kitty abusing Lyle, even as a young adult. - Erik and Lyle’s cousin. He testified that Erik had told him he was being sexually abused several times throughout their childhood. At the time, Andy hadn’t understood what Erik meant by “painful massages”. Andy also said that Erik had become frantic when Andy had touched a jar of vaseline in his room. Saying “it’s not for that”, when Andy had tried to put some on his skin. Erik said his dad had always kept a jar of vaseline by his bed his whole life, and used it during the abuse. A jar of vaseline can be seen next to Erik’s bed in the crime scene photos of the house. - Another cousin who had stayed with the family for a couple summers. He witnessed and experienced abuse by Jose and Kitty. He saw Kitty attempt to cut Lyle’s face with a razor blade. He saw Lyle being forced to play tennis with a shoulder injury, and also saw Jose showering with Lyle and Erik. He heard his cousins being beaten in their bedrooms, and saw the bruises on them. He testified that when Jose was alone in the room with one of the boys, nobody could go anywhere near the door. Diane Vandermolen, Kathy Simonton, Marianne Cano, Marta Cano and Edward Fenno said the same thing. - Erik and Lyle’s tennis coach. He witnessed Kitty and Jose verbally abusing their children, and testified that both boys seemed afraid of their parents. He said when Erik got an ingrown toenail, he was hysterical at the thought of his mother finding out Charles had helped him treat the injury. He said the boys were very emotionally immature and had interests of children years younger than they were. He expressed his love for Lyle and Erik on the stand, and that he had suspected they were being abused physically. - Lyle and Erik’s aunt and Jose’s sister. She witnessed her brother abusing the kids, shaking them and punching them, among other things. She witnessed Jose forcing Erik to hang from an exercise bar when he was a baby. She witnessed Kitty refusing to feed her children. She also witnessed Jose telling Erik he was going to give him a massage. Both Lyle and Erik stated the sexual abuse had started under the guise of massages after sports practice.
Thank you for this… I was honestly enraged by the way he spoke about them and ‘lying’ about their sexual abuse. Usually like his stuff, but this was poorly researched and tone deaf.
Love this podcast! Keep sucking! You really do your research :) Love Scared to Death! The false history and Bojangles really trips me up, it's funny but pulls me out of the story, damn it Dan lmao
hi, I've been away from the nimrod temple for a while and now started to catch up on my suck..... (insert parks and recreation meme) I don't know why the new episodes don't feature the idiots of the internet and at this point I'm too afraid to ask.... can anyone explain? it was one of my favorite sections of the suck....thanks in advance. HAIL NIMROD!
I know this is 7 months after you asked, but that segment was reinvented as "One Star Heroes" and transferred to the Is We Dumb comedy podcast that's no longer releasing episodes for drama reasons.
I don't think it is entitlement. A lot of the current generation's kids have either had parents who divorced or knew other kids who had parents who divorced. My generation (I was born in the 1960's) also had divorced parents or knew of families that had divorced parents but...it was something that you didn't really talk about and it was seen as "unusual" (this began to change in the late 70's early 80's). That, along with things like the MeToo movement, 911, social media, etc. is what I think is driving this current generation's need to question everything and demand ultimate transparency (which isn't bad but can lead into some pretty weird places if critical thinking isn't applied). For example, I am seeing videos about reassessing Hitler (Maybe he wasn't that bad a guy after all. A simple reading of Mein Kampf might adjust that POV), Henry Vlll and his six wives, OJ, you get the idea. The thing I am finding disturbing is that a lot of these reassessments are being done without true research and weighing of the evidence. A story is told, everyone concludes that this MUST be true and then "tries" that story in the court of public opinion. While sometimes necessary, the downside can be destructive to all involved. My PERSONAL opinion of the story Dan is presenting today? If the cousins' statements were true, there is reason to support the idea that The Menendez Family was a horrific, emotional mess. And the justification of the two men killing their folks because of that abuse? Hmmmm...it does happen, but...just not buying it. However, as the author John Green so eloquently puts it: "Truth resists simplicity." If you observe, Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours! Have a great and PEACEFULLY CHAOTIC holiday season :-D! Hail Nimrod!
Did you watch the trial tons of evidence these boys were horrifically abused. , It's a shame you don't mention any of that,one child shooting parents ,but two brother's shooting the parents,then there is a problem with the family. Their mother was not lying on josses lap, jose had mistresses,they weren't the perfect family get you story straight in the trial its all there tons of evidence of SA. Those parents were monsters.its obvious you know nothing about abuse victims.The third trial tey needed a conviction and they got it
Well that's it. I became a space lizard to get to vote. I have only watched a handful of episodes in months. Cuz its nothing but cults and celebrities and stuff that's happened in our lifetime. Dan is at his best when its history. Last donation I make
I will donate but I agree. I only listen to half of these episodes now because of the focus on serial killers and cults. I wish "The Cult of the Curious" would ask for topics like Julius Caesar or The Borgias or even King Henry Vlll and the Tudor Revolution but I guess people like serial killers. It's a disappointment because I like Cummins quite a lot. Have a great holiday season😊!!
In the 80s and 90s my old man whipped my ass with the belt and I promise you I deserved everyone of them I was an awful child I didn't end up dead or in jail because of those lessons
They wanted the money. Period. There's a difference between narcissistic and troubled and entitled narcissism. I'm still learning but often individuals of sexual abuse will show possible red flags within their sexual habits and needs since their understanding of sex began from a toxic sexual relationship. This is said with both a personal view and learning counseling. I could understand them imploding from the pressure their father put onto them and yet, they never faced consequences. They knew how to get their way even if they did something bad. It's just a major disconnection of actions have consequences.
To anyone curious about the forthcoming Menudo documentary, it's worth taking a few things into account: Everything that comes out of Robert Rand's mouth should be taken with the heaviest grain of salt possible. Rand is a man with an agenda and has crafted his entire professional persona around defending the brothers at every turn and giving a free pass to just about every instance of improprietous behavior on their part that would cast doubts on their claims of plausible deniability. It's phase 2 in his ongoing effort to rehabilitate the image of these conniving murderers in the age of social media. Phase 1 was the Law and Order miniseries that aired back in 2018 that focused on this case and was based on his personal involvement with the case as it was unfolding back in 1993 and in the decades that followed. Because this has Robert Rand's fingerprints all over it, it is nothing more than a backdoor way of trying to keep the case for overturning Erik and Lyle's murder convictions relevant in the headlines so they can hold onto the hope of petitioning for the brothers to get a retrial for the purpose of either pleading down to lesser charges or being convicted of lesser charges -- scenarios that would technically allow them to walk free. They know that they're never going to get a pardon by Governor Newsom, so they're trying to leapfrog their way into an alterative route of circumventing their first degree murder convictions by securing a retrial through the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals. This is the court room equivalent of trying to win a presidential election by winning the electoral college while losing the popular vote by the widest margins possible. I guarentee you that after the Peacock miniseries concludes, no one will be talking about Roy Rosselló being abused by José Menendez. That's by design. In many discussion boards I'm reading through already, it's all about trying to reopen the Menendez case for the retrial that supporters feel that the brothers are entitled to because they don't like the fact that after being incarcerated for over three decades now for killing their parents they can't be paroled like other inmates who have been convicted of murder. None of these posters or Robert Rand for that matter really care if Mr. Rosselló finds any closure or not. It's just a means to an end.
I find it funny that people on tiktok will try to justify what they did blaming it on being victims of sexual abuse. Truly idiots of the internet they don’t even do there research.
Didn't you watch the trial, Kosmos? It's on CourtTV in its entirety. I mean, look at them. You can't fake tears like that because no sociopath in history has ever resorted to crying in order to get off the hook. And of course, there are the pastel colored sweaters they wore during their trial which screams not guilty. The Bonnie and Clyde syndrome in full effect. If followers of Charles Manson, Ted Bundy, or Richard Ramirez had access to youtube and twitter they would have doing the same obnoxious shit that you see the Menendez groupies doing right now with their so-called movement.
I graduated from high school in 87. You just described my entire life in the intro today. I can’t stop smiling. Thanks for the amazing memories Dan. 😊
I was born in 87, so this is one of the first big cases I remember hearing about all the time as a kid. This and OJ/Princess Diana/Tonya Harding.
This is also possibly the only true crime case I can think of where I think the perps are both guilty and not guilty at the same time. Great example of two things being true at once.
In that sense, in a weird way, I find them relateable. It doesnt hurt that I grew up in a well off but still abusive family, though. Its easy for me to relate to feeling both spoiled/bratty at certain parts of my life and alone/scared/misunderstood at others. Gives me a unique perpective.
PS: My algorithm knows I have a crush on Javiar Bardem so recommended a bunch of stuff related to the new Netflix Menendez mini-series for me. I didnt even know Timesuck had a Menendez episode! Pleasantly surprised and not sure how I missed it!
Man, heard this last year and really thought the brothers were monsters. Watched the Netflix doc and think the parents were the monsters. This case was wild.
Also, I’m talking about the doc with the court tv footage. Not the dramatized show.
Here to say that Netflix documentaries, as a standard, get most true crime cases wrong.
Okay... I'm gonna put it out there; if you like it, you can take it, if you don't, send it right back... an 80s greatest hit cd but it's Dan singing all the songs!
Just an ideaaaa!
I did not expect this Suck to be so fuckin jam-packed full of weird ins and outs, crazy characters, and whacky details! One of my new favorite episodes.
Fresh Prince of Beverly Hills...
😂😂🤣
Who’s gonna tell him? 😂😂😂😂😂
I can hear the furious timesucker update emails being typed 😂
I was listening on Spotify and immediately came over to RUclips to address this
Hey Dan! long time fan! Just wanted to ask for more visuals as you narrate, curious what these people look like!
Gonna listen to it now.. but did anyone see the SNL skit that was done back then about these brothers crying on the stand about sexual abuse? Because men being sexual abused is funny? Disgusting. Imagine doing that today.
Consider that the SNL writers didn't buy into their bullshit story and was lampooning their dog and pony show in their skit. Try to remember that SNL is a comedy/satire, key word being satire. If they can make fun of a then 12 year old Chelsea Clinton going through the awkward preteen phase that all preteens go through but in the public eye then why should a pair of whimpering, whining, quivering, crybaby killers be spared the same treatment? It was not the SNL writers that made it a point to ridicule their claims of sexual abuse. In fact, there is no mention of sexual abuse whatsoever in that skit. It was fake Erik (Rob Schneider) and Lyle (John Malkovich) alleging that the real murderers of their parents were their long lost brothers, Danny and José Menendez Jr. Frankly, I believe more that Danny and José Menendez Jr. exist in real life than I will ever believe in Erik and Lyle's claim that they were defending themselves from their victims, both of whom they ambushed and gunned down in cold blood.
Besides all that, it was not like SNL's audiences were determining Erik and Liar's fate. On the contrary it was the juries who were seated at their trial, half of which who seemed more than willing to buy into their bullshit defense theory, which means that the skit had little to no effect on how the jury ruled. 30 years later, the Menendez brothers and their defenders cry foul over this bit, neverminding the fact that had they not murdered their parents in the first place SNL would not have been gifted such fertile material to work with. The only people keeping that rather unremarkable skit relevant today are the dipshits on social media that want the brothers set free.
I actually loved the walk down memory lane. But, I still take issue with "Grunge Style". It's cold and wet here in the Seattle area. To us, layering was survival.
This case still fascinates me. Thank you for covering this.
First 15 minutes brought back some great memories! Well done
I feel so bad. I never finished this! I just finished it on another account and I liked it om both. Thank you Dan and Badmagic for all that you do!
Tku so much for your closing remarks, well said!
I called 1-800-BUSINESS after last week's episode and it brought me to this episode. The brief mention of OJ Simpson made me think that he would probably be a decent suck subject now that he died recently.
Tell me you don’t know anything about incest families without telling me you don’t know anything about incest families. There actually was a lot of corroboration for sexual abuse in this case aside from the cousins but I guess watching an entire six month long trial is too much work for most people. I think I’ll agree with the actual experts who interviewed and evaluated the brothers for hundreds of hours while they were in jail. Some of whom were the countries leading experts in child abuse, trauma, rape and fear response. Dr Ann Burgess, Dr Stuart Hart, Dr Ann Tyler, Dr John Conte. Paul Mones himself did psychological abuse evaluations of the brothers too.
You don’t get two separate hung juries with most not voting for murder just because someone presents you a sob story.
You missed the part where incest survivors and other psych experts with no stake in this spoke out saying their claims did not make sense. And profiles do not keep molesting their adult children while simultaneously doing everything in their power to help them become independent.
2:25 might be my favorite single Timesuck moment ever.
First time watching, normally listen on Spotify. I always forget how good looking Dan is😅
You neglected to mention that in the 17 page letter the deputies found, Lyle writes this: "Only you and I know the truth. Only you and I know the secrets of our family's past. I do not look forward to broadcasting them around the country. I would rather try to escape or die. I struggle with my belief that men take responsibility for their actions. Pleading abuse is not taking responsibility... What we did in August was a mistake as far as I can tell. I don't know what I can do about it..."
This was written in April or May 1990, long before the Oziel tapes had been allowed in and before the brothers had revealed the abuse to their lawyers or psychiatrist. It's actually a good indication that the defense was not made up.
Btw the deputies admitted later in a press conference that Lyle and Erik had never actually tried to escape.
I think you also forgot to mention that they found naked pictures of the brothers as children taken from the neck down (their heads were cropped out) and focused on their genitals. It's child porn and there's no wholesome explanation for it. A neighbour also testified that Jose had shown her and other guests a sexually explicit film depicting children being graphically sexually abused and that he found it hilarious how uncomfortable everyone was and boasted that he'd shown it to his kids.
Your Scandahoov is impeccable😂
I understand why your new timesuck about the opioid crisis didn't make RUclips and its so true hail nimrod you beautiful creature
This makes Mondays great!
Perfect on a rainy Monday.
Happy Monday Meat 🍖 🥩 Sacks . Greetings from the UK 🇬🇧
why are there never a source on where the information comes from like a link, in the long list of where to buy your companies items, some of your time suckers like to be able to research things after you discuss them
I was expecting a fresh take with some actual analysis but this is mostly just regurgitating 30 years of prosecution talking points. Feels bad.
What could you possibly mean by a "fresh take" on a case with facts and evidence? Like you think he was gonna say it was aliens or Bigfoot??
yup
i was a teen when this happened. thanks dan love youf showbiz!
Great episode!! I can’t believe you haven’t done a Henry VIII episode though. Lol
I've got the Marc Jackson basketball card with these guys sitting in the front row.
2:24:58. Your welcome.
Here for the Business!
Bless you meatsack
This is why I came thank you
More outtakes plz!!!!
they should be free
Hell yeah! happy monday guys!
Missed another case, Lincoln County, NM. Cody Posey around 2004 I believe. Killed his Father, Mother and stepsister.
Did Dan say spinning cookies when referring to doing donuts in a golf cart?
Yes he did. Glad someone else caught that haha
Does anyone have the time stamp for the business song? It's been stuck in my head for months
How tf is this not like WAY more popular
You’re bias.
* Erik menendez throat injury at age 6
* Lyles hernia at 7
* Grooming and incest facts (not like they can google this)
* Erik menendez letter to Andy Cano at age 16-17 depicted his sexual abuse
* Lyle menendez discussion with Donavon that was recorded by Robert rand about the SA
* Lyle Menendez telling Glenn Stevens about the abuse before the murders
* Lyle molesting Erik (8 and 6)
* Huge personality change for Erik and both Lyle that corresponded with the abuse timeline
* Andy remembers the slat that was used to lock the bedroom of Eriks
* Erik saying “you’re so lucky you have a lock on your bedroom” to Andy as a child
* Same story 33 years later
* 2 anti alibis
* Lyles hyper sexuality
* Lyles constant dissociation
* Erik Menendez throwing up, sweating, dissociating while recounting his abuse to his therapists and lawyers
* the fact that they each molested their “least favourite” child. This was no coincidence.
* When evaluating the Menendez brothers, Lyle and Erik, psychologists determined they were mentally about 10 years old.
* Lyle Menendez’s essay about child molestation and sexual abuse in the middle school
* Lyle not wanting to testify in the first place
* Cheri Woods, a Hollywood madam told the New York Post that Jose Menendez frequently abused the call girls he ordered, and had a preference for teenagers. “He insisted that the girls be no more than 13 years old and petite,” Woods remembered. “But I never employed minors, so I sent my youngest looking girls.” Woods said the girls would come back terrified and covered in bruises and scratches. He wanted to act out violent rape fantasies and inflict pain on them. Woods said she stopped accepting his calls.
* Lyle’s university friend who stayed with the family for a few months. He testified that when he would be hanging out with Erik in his room, Jose would kick him out. That he would spend hours in the room, that Edward was not allowed near the door, and that Erik wouldn’t be seen again all night. This is very important corroborative evidence that Erik’s sexual abuse had continued to age 18. Edward also stated that nothing could be heard through the walls in the house, which goes against the prosecutors theory that the maid would have heard the arguing the days before the shooting. He also witnessed Kitty abusing Lyle, even as a young adult.
* Neighbour Alicia Hercz testified she attended a dinner at the Menendez home where Jose screened the film Pixote, in front of her and his sons. It is a violent and graphic movie about a teenage boy and a trans girl who are sex trafficked and abused.
* Jose worked for RCA records, and was responsible for bringing the boy-band Menudo to America. Menudo was often described as “creepy”, because the boys were very young (12-14), and would be replaced when they got too old. Recently, numerous former members have come out and said they had been sexually abused during their time in the group. Jose has not so far been named specifically, but it’s important to keep in mind these were the people he chose to surround himself with.
* Actor Roddy McDowall, who worked with Menendez on the film Fright Night 3, described him as “the worst human being he [had] ever met”, “A terrible man” and that he carried “an aura of evil” around him.
* Kirsten smith, Eriks high school girlfriend testifies that Erik calls her up before a date crying hysterically (this correlates with the time of when Erik would be sexually abused; before dates and before dinner)
* Erik Menendez recording with reporter Robert rand 2 months before the murder talking about how he would shower with both lyle and Jose
* Lyle Menendez bed wetting
* Kitty Menendez suicide note describing Jose as abusive, like her father, her father who was abusive and a child molested
* Kitty Menendez telling her therapist that “lyles girlfriends are taking him places he wasn’t ready for sexually”
* Lyle Menendez stuffed animals
* 17 years old bring stuff animals to school and raising its hand instead on his
* Spending hours playing with stuff animals as a teenage boy
* Attachment to Cookie Monster
* Sending a letter to his girlfriend signed with all the stuff animals names, maybe 50+ names
* All the animals having personalities
* Collecting animals
* It’s unintentional play therapy
* Jose Menendez stabbing himself with needles, burning himself with candles and letting his kids pinch him til he had welts to prove he felt no pain. Lyle latter doing this
* Jose Menendez knocking a man out for cutting him off
* Jose Menendez “robbery prank” on Lyle and Erik and Diane. Not caring Lyle was pointing a gun at him
* Jose Menendez believing in reincarnation to the point where he trained fear out of himself
* Jose Menendez playing showering “pranks” on Erik and Lyle, turning the water all the way cold and making Erik go hysterical
* Perry burtman stating that Jose Menendez said Lyle was out (on the night of the killings) when Lyle was home all day.
* Diane Vander Molen testifying about then 8 year old Lyle Menendez being afraid of being molested by this father before bed
* Diane had been assaulted by 10 year old Erik and 13 year old lyle during rough housing, assault stopped immediately when Diane said stop
* Lyle Menendez at 13-14, climbed on top of Diane, Diane had gave him a look and he immediately stopped and apologized.
* behavioral psychologist had said this was an reenactment of an reoccurring action, as well as the fact that Lyle Menendez hadn’t started dating at this time.
* Diane would cower in fear of kitty’s rages and mental instability at 17 to 23
* Diane Vander Molen said the brothers would also fight over who got to sleep in bed with their mom when their father was not home. Lyle was 15, Erik was 12.
* Diane getting yelled at by kitty for falling asleep at a gay mans house, kitty screams “gay men have sex with women all the time!”
* Kitty menendezes had told her psychologist that the infidelity wasn’t the only thing upsetting her weeks before the killings. He tried to find out more; all she would say is that it was "sick and embarrassing secrets".
GROOMING AND CONTROL
* Lack of privacy for both Erik and Lyle Menendez
* Lack of Privacy is known to be one of the biggest warning signs of sexual abuse. Lyle and Erik were taught from a very young age that they had no right to their own bodies, and certainly no right to privacy.
* Showering together with their father at the ages of 21 and 18
* Jose drilled a hole in the ceiling so that he could spy on Erik in his bedroom
* Kitty Menendez tapping Eriks phone and listening to all his phone calls
* Showering
* :The boys’ cousins Diane Vandermolen and Alan Anderson both witnessed the father, Jose showering with Lyle and Erik. Obviously, completely inappropriate and abnormal behaviour. But Jose worked in his sadistic side as well. He would shut the boys inside the shower and turn the water on all the way hot, or all the way cold. Lyle’s roommate when he was attending Princeton University, Donovan Goodreau, spoke to reporter Robert Rand about this as well. He said that Lyle told him their father would bathe with them, and had molested them in the tub. Diane Vandermolen also witnessed Kitty bathing Lyle when he was 14. Lyle testified that his mother would touch him inappropriately under the guise of helping him wash his hair.
* Dietary control of everything consumed
* Putting lyle Menendez of fax magazine diets
* Not allowing Lyle Menendez to consume dairy or sugar for the entirety of his childhood without physical repercussions
*
* Changing:
* Lyle and Erik both had no ability to lock their bedroom doors for most of their lives. Jose would undress his sons, and undress in front of them. Kitty began undressing in front of Lyle when he was a teenager.
* Lyle and Erik’s aunt, Marta Cano, testified that when Erik was over playing with her son he always locked the bedroom door. She also overheard him tell her son, Andy, he was lucky that he could lock his door. Lyle’s university friend, Edward Fenno, said that Erik and Lyle both had a habit of immediately locking the door behind them when they entered a room.
* Lack of Autonomy:
* Lyle and Erik were not given the right to say “no”. If they tried, they were threatened, beaten, or both. For example, when Erik tried to resist a sexual assault, Jose held a knife to his throat. When Lyle was caught eating a cookie, he was punched in the stomach. Dr. Conte testified that Erik and Lyle were objectified by their parents, and that they were spoken to and about like property. Such as Jose telling Lyle; “What I do with my sons is none of your business.” or “It’s not your little brother, it’s my son.”
* This lack of autonomy left Lyle completely incapable of making decisions. After his parents death, he attempted to make his uncle, tennis coach and bodyguard replacement authority figures in his life. Asking them constantly to tell him what to do. Lyle was also easily manipulated by people like Craig Cignarelli, Donovan Goodreau and Dr. Oziel.
* Erik was also easily manipulated, and had a hard time saying “no” to people. Erik also stated that he did not feel that his body belonged to him, and that it was owned by his father.
* Isolation
* Prohibition of friends, discouraged
* (Forming friendships is crucial to a child's development; any parent who tries to prevent this has an agenda in doing so)
* Lyle had over 55+ coaches and wasn’t allowed to a close relationship with any of them
* Insist on time alone with a child with no interruptions.
* Family members confirmed that Jose would haul one or both boys into a room and lock the door; the rule was, according to Kitty's nephew, Brian Andersen, Jr, that while that was taking place, you were not permitted to even go down the hallway.
* Buy children expensive gifts or give them money for no apparent reason.
* While obviously these people are all very rich, Jose was, according to neighbors, prone to "showing off" through the kids, but more importantly, his growing wealth and power made it easier to control his sons and manipulate them into silence.
* Excessively buying of material possessions, that's a giveaway also. That's what predators do with their victims; give them gifts, money or "special attention" in order to gain the child's trust. In Jose's case, he likely did that in order to exert more control over his sons and as I said, as a way to manipulate them. He demanded that his sons obey him, and he prescribed to a rule of patriarchy in ancient Rome; a child is property of his or her father and the father could in fact, sentence his child do to death if he saw fit. It's easy to see how the seeds were planted that would eventually explode.
* Treat a particular child as a favourite, making them feel 'special' compared with others in the family.
* Jose did this with Lyle, who was his namesake, and his "favorite". Although Jose victimized Lyle sexually, physically and mentally, he also made no secret of the fact that Lyle was going to be a more improved version of himself, even naming Lyle after himself (Joseph Lyle Menendez)
* He spent more time with Lyle, to the point where family referred to Erik as the "throwaway child".
CREDIBILITY ISSUES WITH THE PROSECUTION
* Pamela Bozanich
* prosecutors of the infamous McMartin Preschool case
* Stated “Men cannot be raped, as they don’t have the necessary equipment.”
* Mrs. Bozanich was also a prosecutor in the infamous McMartin pre-school case. The most expensive trial in American history. The interviews of the children in this case were later found to be extremely improper. The children made accusations that they had been “flushed down toilets into secret rooms”, “saw witches fly” and “traveled in hot air balloons.” The children also named actor Chuck Norris as one of the abusers. The case was eventually dismissed.
* Prosecutors repeatedly questioned Erik Menendez on his sexual orientation, and argued he had enjoyed the abuse. They also attempted to present the theory he was in an incestuous relationship with his brother, Lyle.
* Jury member Hazel Thornton stated the majority of discussion by the jurors was on the topic of Erik being gay.
* “They want this jury to believe... That it’s okay to rape homosexual boys! Because ‘they like it’ or ‘they had it coming, or they’re only faggots and we don’t care about them!” -Leslie Abranson
* DOMINICK DUNNE
* Dominick Dunne was a True Crime writer who covered the Menendez Brothers trial for Vanity Fair. He wrote some of the most biased and scathing articles about the brothers. He accused them of lying about the abuse and even faking their tears. One juror even said Dunne paid him to lie to the press about Lyle and Erik high-fiving in-between testimonies. A rumor that still persists (although, the court footage clearly shows it to be a lie.) But behind the scenes, Dunne had a very different opinion. He privately told fellow reporter, Robert Rand, that he believed Lyle’s sexual abuse testimony. Dunne and prosecutor Pamela Bozanich spent lunch breaks gossiping about Erik’s sexuality. Dominick and Pamela were both convinced Erik was gay. Pamela even suggested Erik liked “having sex” with his father, and her partner asked Erik multiple times if he and his brother had ever had sex with each other. Dunne himself was gay, though his close friends say he was full of internalized homophobia. Pamela told Dunne about a photoshoot Erik had done, which she described as “homoerotic”. Dunne made it his mission to find these photos, and he managed to track down the photographer. He had a shirtless photo of teenage Erik printed out for himself. He kept it framed in his house, and would show it off to people. The photographer later said in an interview that the photoshoot itself was “sad” and “off putting”. That Erik had no life behind his eyes. Meanwhile, in the press, Dunne continued to slander the brothers. He called them liars, actors and spoiled brats. Even though in private he had admitted to believing them, and to feeling a kinship with Erik. But in the press, he had no problem discrediting and ridiculing a rape victim for defending himself. Plus, creepy letter he sent to Erik “oh, how often you come into my mind…”
* KURIYAMA
* Kuriyama insinuated they were incestuous
* He asked like, a million questions about Erik sleeping in Lyle’s bed, wearing his tennis shorts and all these innocent things trying to make them seem sexual. Asked if he had “homosexual relations with anyone other than your brother”, which Leslie objected to.
* He asked Casey Whalen so many questions about this hot tub that was in a hotel room, asking how long they were in it, how close they were, if they were dressed or naked. It was a big tactic that never should have been allowed.
TESTIMONY
- Skip Lowe, a talk show host; testifies that Erik Menendez was pinched right in front of him at a dinner party, Jose saying “shut up dummy!” While Erik turned red
- Mary Theresa Dominguez testifying about the size of the shower, (about 8ft.) Testifying about finding 2 large boxes in 2 different locations (master bedroom and library) of male pornography magazine’s and videos. Box is about a ft wide, and 4 inches high. Testifying how sad Erik and Lyle seemed before going to play tennis “like they were going to a funeral.”
- Edward Fenno, Lyle’s University friend who stayed with the family for a few months. He said that on a regular basis, he would be told by Mr. Menendez to leave Erik’s room. That Jose would stay in the room for hours, he could not go anywhere near the door, and Erik would not be seen again all night.
- Diane Vandermolen, Andy Cano, Kathy Simonton, Alan Anderson and Marianne Cano all testified they had witnessed Jose abusing the boys physically, and had themselves been abused by Jose and his wife while staying with the family.
- Actor Roddy McDowall, who worked with Menendez on the film Fright Night 3, described him as “the worst human being he [had] ever met”, “A terrible man” and that he carried “an aura of evil” around him.
- The boys’ tennis coach Charles Wadlington described Jose as “the worst parent [he] had ever met”, and cried on the witness stand as he described what he’d seen. He also expressed he wished he could have saved Lyle and Erik.
- Neighbour Alicia Hercz testified she attended a dinner at the Menendez home where Jose screened the film Pixote, in front of her and his sons. It is a violent and graphic movie about a teenage boy and a trans girl who are sex trafficked and abused.
- Lyle’s university friend who stayed with the family for a few months. He testified that when he would be hanging out with Erik in his room, Jose would kick him out. That he would spend hours in the room, that Edward was not allowed near the door, and that Erik wouldn’t be seen again all night. This is very important corroborative evidence that Erik’s sexual abuse had continued to age 18. Edward also stated that nothing could be heard through the walls in the house, which goes against the prosecutors theory that the maid would have heard the arguing the days before the shooting. He also witnessed Kitty abusing Lyle, even as a young adult.
- Erik and Lyle’s cousin. He testified that Erik had told him he was being sexually abused several times throughout their childhood. At the time, Andy hadn’t understood what Erik meant by “painful massages”. Andy also said that Erik had become frantic when Andy had touched a jar of vaseline in his room. Saying “it’s not for that”, when Andy had tried to put some on his skin. Erik said his dad had always kept a jar of vaseline by his bed his whole life, and used it during the abuse. A jar of vaseline can be seen next to Erik’s bed in the crime scene photos of the house.
- Another cousin who had stayed with the family for a couple summers. He witnessed and experienced abuse by Jose and Kitty. He saw Kitty attempt to cut Lyle’s face with a razor blade. He saw Lyle being forced to play tennis with a shoulder injury, and also saw Jose showering with Lyle and Erik. He heard his cousins being beaten in their bedrooms, and saw the bruises on them. He testified that when Jose was alone in the room with one of the boys, nobody could go anywhere near the door. Diane Vandermolen, Kathy Simonton, Marianne Cano, Marta Cano and Edward Fenno said the same thing.
- Erik and Lyle’s tennis coach. He witnessed Kitty and Jose verbally abusing their children, and testified that both boys seemed afraid of their parents. He said when Erik got an ingrown toenail, he was hysterical at the thought of his mother finding out Charles had helped him treat the injury. He said the boys were very emotionally immature and had interests of children years younger than they were. He expressed his love for Lyle and Erik on the stand, and that he had suspected they were being abused physically.
- Lyle and Erik’s aunt and Jose’s sister. She witnessed her brother abusing the kids, shaking them and punching them, among other things. She witnessed Jose forcing Erik to hang from an exercise bar when he was a baby. She witnessed Kitty refusing to feed her children. She also witnessed Jose telling Erik he was going to give him a massage. Both Lyle and Erik stated the sexual abuse had started under the guise of massages after sports practice.
Discredited the whole video with one post great job
Thank you for this… I was honestly enraged by the way he spoke about them and ‘lying’ about their sexual abuse. Usually like his stuff, but this was poorly researched and tone deaf.
How did you find all this information?
Hail Nimrod!
All that overkill meant hatred to me.
Yeah if they killed for inheritance you'd think one or two and done.
I member my mom being glued to the tv when this case was going on.
Dan. A kid in my town killed both his parents and then himself. His sister found them.
Anyone else get island boy vibes from these guys 😂
Chill 💀
Pretty sure I've heard "cornerstorne" enough that last couple weeks to add it to my rich vocrabulary. 3/5stars
Love this podcast! Keep sucking! You really do your research :) Love Scared to Death!
The false history and Bojangles really trips me up, it's funny but pulls me out of the story, damn it Dan lmao
Happy Monday, fellow suckers!
love the shirt!
Time for laughs!!!
Awesome Suck! Loved it!! 😊
Also in 1989, I was being made, wouldn't make my debut until mid-1990, though. :P
Exactly
I personally think its all of thee above.
hi, I've been away from the nimrod temple for a while and now started to catch up on my suck..... (insert parks and recreation meme) I don't know why the new episodes don't feature the idiots of the internet and at this point I'm too afraid to ask.... can anyone explain? it was one of my favorite sections of the suck....thanks in advance. HAIL NIMROD!
I know this is 7 months after you asked, but that segment was reinvented as "One Star Heroes" and transferred to the Is We Dumb comedy podcast that's no longer releasing episodes for drama reasons.
It's Monday, Meatsacks!
Just two cheeky lads misunderstood
Thank you for telling those vegetarians the truth 🙏
You can be Cuban and white.
Jennifer Pan is another example, I think.
52:07
oh and dan you let me down without a Johnny ringo reference
Captions plz
Victims
The current generation's take on the brothers, seems to come from a place of entitlement... Just me?
I don't think it is entitlement. A lot of the current generation's kids have either had parents who divorced or knew other kids who had parents who divorced. My generation (I was born in the 1960's) also had divorced parents or knew of families that had divorced parents but...it was something that you didn't really talk about and it was seen as "unusual" (this began to change in the late 70's early 80's). That, along with things like the MeToo movement, 911, social media, etc. is what I think is driving this current generation's need to question everything and demand ultimate transparency (which isn't bad but can lead into some pretty weird places if critical thinking isn't applied). For example, I am seeing videos about reassessing Hitler (Maybe he wasn't that bad a guy after all. A simple reading of Mein Kampf might adjust that POV), Henry Vlll and his six wives, OJ, you get the idea. The thing I am finding disturbing is that a lot of these reassessments are being done without true research and weighing of the evidence. A story is told, everyone concludes that this MUST be true and then "tries" that story in the court of public opinion. While sometimes necessary, the downside can be destructive to all involved.
My PERSONAL opinion of the story Dan is presenting today? If the cousins' statements were true, there is reason to support the idea that The Menendez Family was a horrific, emotional mess. And the justification of the two men killing their folks because of that abuse? Hmmmm...it does happen, but...just not buying it. However, as the author John Green so eloquently puts it: "Truth resists simplicity."
If you observe, Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours! Have a great and PEACEFULLY CHAOTIC holiday season :-D! Hail Nimrod!
I don't know if it's entitlement so much as naïveté. Maybe not enough research. Certainly not enough education.
HAIL NIMROD!!!!
Hy-Ooo Sasparilla! Awayyy!!
sweet t shirt. morten hakken is god
❤❤❤❤
So I haven't finished video but how ed the lawyer gf able to tell police?
Isn't there a confidentiality law between the lawyer and the inmate
The bever brothers I think killed bolth parents.
1-800-Business 😂
Another kid who killed both of his parents (and siblings) was a youtuber who went by Mr. Anime. Trey Eric Sesler.
Hertz...more like Hurst
Stepbrothers
I am part of the “new generation” and no that’s not that many people support them I swear 😭there’s some like 12 yr olds
Did you watch the trial tons of evidence these boys were horrifically abused. , It's a shame you don't mention any of that,one child shooting parents ,but two brother's shooting the parents,then there is a problem with the family. Their mother was not lying on josses lap, jose had mistresses,they weren't the perfect family get you story straight in the trial its all there tons of evidence of SA. Those parents were monsters.its obvious you know nothing about abuse victims.The third trial tey needed a conviction and they got it
on the intro: ok, boomer :D
.
The initial reaction should have been suspicious enough that I would have brought them in...
Never going to convince me these crapsacks were abused.
Well that's it. I became a space lizard to get to vote. I have only watched a handful of episodes in months.
Cuz its nothing but cults and celebrities and stuff that's happened in our lifetime. Dan is at his best when its history.
Last donation I make
I will donate but I agree. I only listen to half of these episodes now because of the focus on serial killers and cults. I wish "The Cult of the Curious" would ask for topics like Julius Caesar or The Borgias or even King Henry Vlll and the Tudor Revolution but I guess people like serial killers.
It's a disappointment because I like Cummins quite a lot.
Have a great holiday season😊!!
I also enjoy the history stuff more. I'm sorry you were transformed into a space lizard, condolences to you and yours.
In the 80s and 90s my old man whipped my ass with the belt and I promise you I deserved everyone of them I was an awful child I didn't end up dead or in jail because of those lessons
They wanted the money. Period. There's a difference between narcissistic and troubled and entitled narcissism.
I'm still learning but often individuals of sexual abuse will show possible red flags within their sexual habits and needs since their understanding of sex began from a toxic sexual relationship. This is said with both a personal view and learning counseling.
I could understand them imploding from the pressure their father put onto them and yet, they never faced consequences. They knew how to get their way even if they did something bad. It's just a major disconnection of actions have consequences.
To anyone curious about the forthcoming Menudo documentary, it's worth taking a few things into account:
Everything that comes out of Robert Rand's mouth should be taken with the heaviest grain of salt possible. Rand is a man with an agenda and has crafted his entire professional persona around defending the brothers at every turn and giving a free pass to just about every instance of improprietous behavior on their part that would cast doubts on their claims of plausible deniability. It's phase 2 in his ongoing effort to rehabilitate the image of these conniving murderers in the age of social media. Phase 1 was the Law and Order miniseries that aired back in 2018 that focused on this case and was based on his personal involvement with the case as it was unfolding back in 1993 and in the decades that followed.
Because this has Robert Rand's fingerprints all over it, it is nothing more than a backdoor way of trying to keep the case for overturning Erik and Lyle's murder convictions relevant in the headlines so they can hold onto the hope of petitioning for the brothers to get a retrial for the purpose of either pleading down to lesser charges or being convicted of lesser charges -- scenarios that would technically allow them to walk free. They know that they're never going to get a pardon by Governor Newsom, so they're trying to leapfrog their way into an alterative route of circumventing their first degree murder convictions by securing a retrial through the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals. This is the court room equivalent of trying to win a presidential election by winning the electoral college while losing the popular vote by the widest margins possible.
I guarentee you that after the Peacock miniseries concludes, no one will be talking about Roy Rosselló being abused by José Menendez. That's by design. In many discussion boards I'm reading through already, it's all about trying to reopen the Menendez case for the retrial that supporters feel that the brothers are entitled to because they don't like the fact that after being incarcerated for over three decades now for killing their parents they can't be paroled like other inmates who have been convicted of murder. None of these posters or Robert Rand for that matter really care if Mr. Rosselló finds any closure or not. It's just a means to an end.
I find it funny that people on tiktok will try to justify what they did blaming it on being victims of sexual abuse. Truly idiots of the internet they don’t even do there research.
Didn't you watch the trial, Kosmos? It's on CourtTV in its entirety. I mean, look at them. You can't fake tears like that because no sociopath in history has ever resorted to crying in order to get off the hook. And of course, there are the pastel colored sweaters they wore during their trial which screams not guilty. The Bonnie and Clyde syndrome in full effect. If followers of Charles Manson, Ted Bundy, or Richard Ramirez had access to youtube and twitter they would have doing the same obnoxious shit that you see the Menendez groupies doing right now with their so-called movement.
Best part of my one day a week off. Hail Nimrod!