Exactly, just how our light powers aren’t inherently good. The past displays this very perfectly as guardians wielded their power for selfish and greedy reasons.
@@makscepura3572 Not the light, the traveler. The light is just a force, same as darkness. If you want to blame anyone for being cruel, uncaring, manipulative, blame the traveler and whoever controls it.
Yeah. Imagine getting random quests from them for example retrieving some old family heirloom left in the edz during the collapse or avenging their family member that died during one of the many conflicts the city has had by killing their killer and if you do enough their dialogue will be more respectful and you'll receive gifts every now and then. Something like that would be nice.
Also, having Hive as a playable Guardian race would be _so_ cool. But, alas, we are talking about Bungo, who have a _very_ impressive track record in missed opportunities 😞. FYI, I stopped playing *_Destiny_* during _The Rise of Iron,_ but have followed *_Destiny 2_* closely, perhaps out of morbid curiosity 🤔.
As Byf said, most of this growing animosity comes from a lack of understanding on the part of the people of the city and a lack of communication from the vanguard. Educating the civilian populace on the intricacies of light and dark and the forces commanding them would go far to ease these growing tensions. They ought to appoint someone to hold public symposiums inthe city to spread knowledge amongst the people
The actions of season of the splicer are starting to have ripping consequences. While they sometimes caused much trouble, Lackshmi and the rest of the factions provided order by being representatives for the common citizens and gave had a relationship in the Consensus. Without them now, there is no communication between the Vanguard and humanity; no relationships. We have Suraya, But that’s it. We need a new council of representatives for the citizens, like Saint for the Elksni, or a new Spreaker (possibly Eido?). But, Ikora and Zavala are too preoccupied with the war effort to fill these voids and appoint a new Hunter Vanguard. The risk of loosing the City in Lightfall is much higher if we don’t find replacements for these roles on the Consensus.
The lore of Destiny has been getting better and better, season after season. It doesn’t just deal with the big names anymore, we get background characters cropping up like Chalco or Fenchurch. It’s been really cool to get snippets of reactions from ordinary citizens of the City, and see how individual people and Guardians react to Stasis, the Eliksni, everything going on. Short of being able to go into The City and talk to people, this has been great to see.
Hello Adam Wilson, I have you informed that we, the people, will not stand by and fall under the Vanguard’s negligence. We shall take over and give rise to our beloved, and majesty, Tess Eververse🤧
While definitely not good because it's a lot harder to protect someone who doesn't trust you, we are still massively more powerful than anything the city could even dream of matching. Without the Guardians, the last city falls.
I was just struck by something... That sounds an awful lot like the scenario set up in the backstory of Rhulk with Lubrae. Let's try to learn from history before we repeat it.
@@BerenElendilAPGaming true. Then the Darkness Will turn to someone desperate enough from the ones Who no longer beliefs in the Traveller and turn them against us, killing us from the inside
Vriksis’s brother is NOT dead. He was tortured and mutilated, but he clearly escaped in the Shattered Cipher lore tab. He’s also theorized to be the three armed Vandal named Piiksi from the Lorentz Driver lore tab.
@@trashman4910 No, Piiksi is male. The lore tab reads: "What about this rifle?" Skorso asks over the sound of two Brigs moving cargo. Her overseer, a three-armed Vandal named Piiksi, pulls back the drop-cloth covering it. He takes a moment to assess the way the rifle is pieced together from non-weapon components, then motions toward where the Brigs are walking. "Good meals can still spoil," Piiksi says. "Bring it. But all these spare parts can be left behind." Skorso nods in acknowledgement, but instead of immediately returning to work, she sidles up close to Piiksi, her eyes darting around the warehouse. "Is this really happening?" she asks in a whisper. Piiksi steps away from her as she sets the rifle down on a nearby crate. "Maybe. Two hands in greeting, two hands concealed. It is a matter of survival." Skorso challenges Piiksi's avoidance and circles around the crate, four eyes narrowed. "Spider's scared," she whispers again. "Isn't he?" Piiksi quickly leans in. "You say that any louder, and I can't protect you from what will happen next," he says in a sharp whisper, glancing over his shoulder. "Where would we even go?" Skorso asks, searching Piiksi's many eyes. Her supervisor's answer is a backpedaling shrug. "Don't know," Piiksi lies and gives her a toothy smile. "But like some Eliksni say: the Light provides."
NGL, because we've never really been able to actually go and interact with the people of the last city IN the last city, them being disgruntled or untrusting doesn't mean much to me anymore, it feels like they're a total nonentity at this point, hell at this point I know more about how the Eliksni live in the last city more then the greater populace because I was able to go through their living space and learn about them...
I want the farm back as well, and be able to easily access it from orbit instead of going into the edz screen. I fucking loved the farm. It was so calm there
I wish there was a lore entry from a crucible spectators/crucible competitors about stasis and seeing it in the crucible. It’d be interesting to see how it is viewed through a sports sort of lens
There’s lore pertaining to stasis in the Crucible. One Warclock, a Shadebinder, was anxious that Shaxx saw them use stasis, but the Crucible handler didn’t see an issue with it. Even when the Guardian’s body was shattered except for his boots. Another piece of lore describes Shaxx pausing a match to acknowledge a Hunter, Titan, and Warlock’s new stasis abilities and Supers, as they’ve used them. Stating he is proud they came to him for guidance in honing they’re new powers. As a ex-warlord, Shaxx knows what it’s like to be viewed as a monster or outcast, one that has done terrible things. He encouraged Guardians to use stasis, and that, the weapon doesn’t make the wielder a monster, otherwise they were a monster to begin with. With his dark past, he’s able to see the shades of grey.
Aisha is one of my favorite 'minor' characters in the lore. Her story with Shayura and Reed is incredible... I really hope they don't get torn apart any more.
@@benm3017 Oh, tons of interactions. Aisha, Shayura, and Reed are all part of a fireteam who enter Saint XIV's trials together. From the lore of different class's Trials armors, you get the same scenes from different perspectives. Weapons usually have stuff too. Aisha's Embrace's lore made me cry a little. Shayura's typically involve hive-based trauma hallucinations, and her fanatical devotion to light. Aisha's revolve around solitude and isolation due to her acceptance of the taboo Stasis powers of Darkness, regardless of how it's just another tool to save lives. Reed's scenes generally seem to discuss how much of a stabilizer he is for the team, and how he's the anchor the other two can rely on to always be there- Taking a bit of a neutral stance, willing to hear out all sides. But there's so many really good interactions. Like, just tiny little things. like how Aisha is scared of spiders. And how Shay gets her drinks with extra cinnamon or whatever. It's evident that they all have history, and it really feels like a glimpse into lives that really exists. The writers did excellently with these three characters, I think.
@@Gorotth The lore behind the recent Scout Rifle (from Trials) "Aisha's Embrace" tells us that Shayura has been arrested and possibly placed under proper medical care... thanks to Aisha. That woman is a kind soul.
Same, friend ! Really appreciating Aisha ! When I learned that Aisha was a Hunter using Stasis, I was thinking "Hey hey hey, hold on a second. There was a female Guardian wielding Stasis who saved the brother of the missing Eliksni ! I bet that's her !" ... It was. And when I saw how much she cared about Shayura, despite her terrible actions due to scarred mental state, Aisha reached MVP-NPC status to me.
My amateur analysis of the situation: I feel like because certain parties such as the Speaker and the Vanguard, wanting more devoted followers to support them and join their ranks, made the Light into a religion rather than a tool/technology. The effect of that indoctrination has now caused the residents to see the existence of Lucent Hive as a betrayal by their "God", and Stasis users as Guardians joining the "bad guy's" side. To me, it's now clear that both Light and Darkness are merely tools, but certain entities (the Witness, people in the City who want to cause chaos for one reason or another) want the masses to believe that either one is inherently a "good" or "bad" power, thus leading to more distrust and division.
During this year, before Lightfall, we should have the story become a little more focused on the City and the citizens, to help them understand and gain their trust. Maybe not a full seasonal focus, but part of a seasonal story line.
We have representatives of each allied faction in our Coalition: Caital for the Cabal, Mara for the Awoken, the Vanguard for Humanity, and Mithraks for the Elksni. What we really need for the City are representatives to fill the voids left by the factions. Saint-14 for the Elksni, Suraya for humanity in the City, Saladin for the Cabal and City’s relationship, and Eido could possibly be the new Speaker. We have a council of representatives for the coming war. We need a council for the City to fill the spots in the Consensus, and a new Hunter Vanguard. Unfortunately, Zavala and Ikora are already too busy to consider candidates to appoint these new roles. It must be done soon though, otherwise the City may be destroyed from within before the Witness arrives due to discord and fear.
I’m starting to have some second thoughts about wielding darkness as a ‘force’. Shin Malphur, Shayura, and the reports of Ikora’s hidden make it very clear to me at least, that while the Light does not make you incorruptible, the Dark tries _very, _*_very_*_ hard_ to corrupt you. I don’t think things are as grey as we’ve been led to believe. I’m reminded of lore from other universes, specifically Mass Effect, where the Reaper relied upon the races of the galaxy to progress along predictable lines. What if the Witness is not suprised about us using Stasis. _What if he’s counting on it_
The Darkness by its very principals will encourage corruption, the witness likely pushed us to use stasis in hopes that by using it more and more well abandon the Light entirely. That being said its clear that the outcome Elsie Bray is hoping will occur this time is enough will wield both for the force for good.
I don’t really care how the people feel. That’s one issue that Bungie has created with not giving us the ability to interact with the people in the city. It could be a small hub which they typically are, but just a small section of the city where you can explore to see inhabitants from their perspective. Because the way it is right now, guardians are constantly separated from the people. We are exploring the universe in our spaceships and when we stop in to visit, we only go to the tower. Acting like God‘s looking down upon the people from above. There’s no real interaction there. Hawthorne and moments like that are helpful but they are far too few in between. So again, I have no investment or interest or care in the people of the city because that sentiment has never been instilled or created with the set ups as they are now. The people And how they feel …. means nothing
Even if we did have a way to interact with the citizens, there would always be an ocean of separation between us. Guardians casually kill themselves for fun and have slain gods. No amount of fake dialogue trees can change that. But I also think that’s kinda cool as we’re kinda proving the civilians right.
@@peoplebullyme8198 I hear you but that’s not really the point here. It’s not about interacting with civilians as a fellow civilian, because guardians are not that. But as it has always been and currently is, the people of the city mean absolutely nothing to us guardians because we never see them. We are not a part of that city. We do not interact with the city or its inhabitants. We cannot walk in streets or see its peoples. The city and its inhabitants mean about as much to us guardians as a random planet that we have not visited multiple galaxies away from us… It just has no meaning. It would be better if Bungie could allow us to visit and interact with some small section of the city. That way you could feel some minor connection to this city and people that you are supposedly supposed to be protecting. Not as a god apathetically looking down from a tower as you pass by, but instead as a wandering adventurer who visits the streets of the city they are from/protecting and hearing the conversations of his people as well as seeing them. I thought it would have been cool if they just not only gave you the ability to visit and interact with the city but also if they put up some kind of bounty board. That way believed interaction would be a recycling of a few bounties that correlate to the EDZ or a Kosmodrome, that you could accomplish for supposedly some of the cities inhabitants. Maybe finding some needed materials, collecting a lost item, etc . It could be literally the same thing as a lot of the destination bounties we already have except this would be, from a immersive standpoint, a more direct interaction with the city you are from and its people. Even if just to create the illusion that you are doing something for the people and creating that “care”
@@grimmjow0106 Wouldn't that separation be considered a point, then? They don't see them, the guardians don't really interact with them or think of them at all. They are protectors of a people they don't know or care about past being their protectors. They are too busy out there killing gods and making them into guns to prepare for further conflicts to go and interact with the lightless.
@@fluidwolf true but byf is making a point here about how the people do not trust us. Or they are losing trust in us. Not so much him as he is merely pointing out what thelore is saying in regards to that point. So bungee is creating a lore narrative for us to contemplate or consider which involves the people of the city losing trust in us. And the problem is that bungie things we are supposed to care. For the very same points you just made, we do not care. Bungie is creating a story narrative here that is supposed to be important in some regard, but because they have failed to allow us guardians to interact or be involved with the people of the city/the city in any meaningful way… Even a small one… We could care less. So the story narrative that they are introducing becomes a waste of time. Because we guardians do not care about the people of city because we do not know them. We do not know the city. We merely observe it from the tower and then go back out in the space. The city and the people the city mean absolutely nothing to us because there’s no interaction there. So bungees attempt at us caring about what the people the city think about us or how they feel, is wasted words. Hollow in meaningless to us guardians. There’s no reason for us to care what the people to city think or how they feel as that is some foreign entity that means absolutely nothing to us beyond in name
It's almost like the people of the last city have forgotten that even lightbearers did horrible things to their ancestors before the birth of the Last City, they are judging too early and it's going to bite them in the ass when they go to ostracized the people who are protecting them from the real danger that coming.
eh, it makes sense why they'd react the way they are. sudden acceptance of a species that have been trying to kill them for their entire history which spans 1000s of years probably, guardians using stasis against their governing bodies wishes who have said that they don't condone it(the vanguard) and now hive guardians, not the easiest changes to get used to in the span of just 1 year. really would seem like things are turning towards darkness, something that nearly caused humanities extinction(kinda made worse by the fact that basically all enemy races have been described as forces of darkness despite the fact that only the hive, taken and scorn really fit this description). housing the fallen in the tower all of a sudden is also a pretty bad idea. this seems like a big communication issue on the part of the vanguard
That’s why their opinion doesn’t matter to me. My character is an immortal god killer. What can they do to my character? Hurl curses and slurs at me? How many times have we probably been called terrible things by the beings we slaughter for fun?
I hate to be the one to stay this, but because of the fact the Last city has become more autocratic and less democratic (regardless if Zavala and Ikora are too) is one of the reasons why this has happened. As much as I agree Bringing in the House of light and cabal truce was a good idea, they should have consolidated with the people on these issues. As much as they are very emotional and might be stubborn, leaving them in the dark and consolidating the tower’s power has led to this distrust.
The Last City was never democratic to begin with, the main factions were High tech doomsdayprepers, people who specifically want to leave earth behind and people who want to install a king ... It was an oligarchy comprised of people with the most arms and resources.
It that was the case then the alliance would’ve never happened. No offense but the people are clueless and aren’t aware of what really goes on so they wouldn’t understand. This isn’t entirely their fault tho
The city has always been an authoritarian theocracy. Heresy laws exist and people were routinely exiled for looking into the wrong things. We play as guardians so we see things through rose colored glasses but the government of the last city is ultimately antithetical to most western values.
On one hand I agree with them that guardians and the Vanguard aren't trustworthy. but on the other hand "Good" and "Evil" isn't a binary system so they shouldn't be attacking Eliksni and condemning stasis.
They shouldnt be doing that, sure, but they grew up with this system being in place for centuries. It makes sense that having unilateral decisions by the Vanguard thrust upon the general populace would cause uproar
I completely understand how most Last City citizens are starting to distrust the guardians considering they know next to nothing about the darkness, why and how guardians use stasis, and the story surrounding the hive ghosts and savathun. The vanguard has, quite frankly, done a piss-poor job at explaining what has been going on over the last 2 years to the last city and just expect the citizens to blindly trust what they and the guardians do. These misunderstandings could be easily solved if the vanguard took the time to appoint someone to explain everything to the last city, possibly someone who is a liason between the guardians and the citizens and literally stays a few feet away from the Warlock Vanguard(*cough* Hawthorne *cough*).
@@yodagaming5905 Wow, you just made me realize just how important the speaker's job actually was in keeping the city united. We need a new speaker, and quickly. I would say crow would become the new speaker, but I'm still not sure if they plan on making him the next hunter vanguard or not.
When Hawthorne was introduced at the beginning of Destiny 2 I thought she would play a larger role in the future, her whole shtick about bridging the Guardians with the citizenry, but she became as irrelevant as the Farm. I don't think she has gotten a single line of dialogue since vanilla.
I think now would be a perfect time to bring that one faction back that took all 3 factions of the City to dismantle. (FWC, NM, DO). I don’t remember what the faction was called but I remember it in the D1 lore that some of those faction members are operating in the shadows or something like that. Unless I missed the part that they are completely wiped out, now would be the perfect time for them to come back. The 3 factions are gone and the people of the city are having major doubts. Another new enemy faction would be most welcomed too.
I'd love to walk through the Last City we protect- see the people and places we protect and we call home. Sure the Tower is our main base, but the City is where we all live.
Ooooh maybe have some venders we access in the city like the currency black market or we could visit the eliskni quarter and buy materials from house light or potentially a cabal section in the city and buy weapons from them. If only 🤤.
If it were realistic, it probably wouldn't be that good of an idea, since a lot would rebel regardless of what the guardians and the vanguard do for them and it would probably make a lot of guardians sour. (guardians as in the characters, not the players)
@@Intruse that's the charm though about the last safe city. I wanna know that my actions as a super guardian mean something. That's why I think when Lakshmi and the whole Osiris thing was super awesome and why the story now with lord Saladin is great
I mean, them distrusting us is largely irrelevant. We are essentially gods to them, and there is no way for them to physically survive without us. They cant lord over us due to the power imbalance, and we have been making the objectively correct judgement calls with our alliances, which turned out saved the humans repeatedly. It sucks that they are largely powerless over their own fate... but what are they going to do, realistically? Its not like they could ever stop even a single guardian that wanted them dead.
At least from the description of the Hoarfrost-Z chest piece, its not like they aren't unwilling or incapable of learning how. While Spider might not have outright animosity, its not hard to see that some people do and that they are trying to at least find out how ghosts, light, dark and such things work to at least be able to manipulate them. Even from the lore tab, they have at least discovered a way to at least disable/incapacitate ghost to a degree (even if they one they tried it one was dead) so it not a stretch to say that they aren't going to try harder. And its not that the Guardians are gods. We're just a little more durable than the average person and so can take repeated abuse. The saying goes 'if it can bleed, it can die' and in this case, we know that Guardians aren't completely invincible and undying. Not only does Cayde prove this but the fact that Guardians kill other (Hive) Guardians on the regular.
Realistically, yeah they can do nothing. But people need to at least feel like they can do something otherwise it feels like a dictatorship, then an unhappy/discontent population is a lot harder to convince to just go about their lives and leave the ruling class in relative peace.
@@Mariusweeddeath You cannot kill a guardian or a ghost without either darkness or light. Guardians can kill guardians extremely easily. Someone who is lightless and darkless will need some method of using either or to kill a guardian. Cayde actually proved that.
@@lokky9550 I mean, what are they realistically going to do? Kill themselves to death? A single guardian will wipe all of them out and be back in time for lunch.
@@Mariusweeddeath See- that would be true if humans could kill a ghost. BUT it’s been very clear that to truly die a final death, a Guardian has to be killed and the ghost has to be killed by a very limited amount of things. Thorn, or a weapon of sorrow that would drain a guardian of their light; The Darkness; a light suppression device or another Guardian. Those are really the only things that can kill a guardian permanently, none of which humanity possesses. Plus, we also wield the light and can break the laws of physics at will. “if it can bleed, it can die” doesn’t apply when your enemy breaks the laws that govern the universe, can be resurrected and you have absolutely no possible way of preventing either.
Well at this point it is either work with us or die. Same with the Traveler. I don't trust the Traveler to be looking after us, but I have to work with it otherwise we all die.
At 11:50 wouldn’t the line,”They’re using the dark to blind us…” refer to the endless night. I assume the word “They’re” would refer to The Vex or The Fallen (since The Citizens thought The House of Light put the endless night on us,thanks to FWC) instead of The Guardians.
@@jem-jams the city, more over FWC used the Endless Night as justification to attack and kill members of the house of light, despite, militarily, being the worst thing to do. Kinda a stretch, but it does prove the civilian population of the city does not trust the vanguard's judgement all the time
As a lightbearer and subsequently a guardian, I look at the citizens of the last city and just see unfortunate fools. We definitely need more communication between both sides. Every relationship is a two way street, and this is no different. From my knowledge, all guardians (risen that choose to protect the last city) have been the only ones giving. We give our blood, sweat and tears, almost literally. Thanks to ghosts we give our lives, multiple times, for the sake of protecting the last city because that is what we believe is right. Many guardians have lost their light to fend off threats that would have wiped the entire city flat. Thanks to the light we have been able to accomplish feats that would be near impossible to a normal person. What have the citizens of the last city given us? Distrust and animosity. When we tried to seek peace through diplomatic means with other races, they hated us for it. When we managed to enter an alliance with Caiatl, they hated us for it. Whatever we do seems wrong in their eyes. Would they rather have us let Caiatl flatten the last city? The cabal have more powerful weapons in their arsenal than we do, now that we lost Rasputin, and even if he returns I doubt he'll be connected to his previous network. Apart from that what do we have? Cargo planes, tanks, and thankfully, near immortal soldiers. Lose the guardians and the cabal are militarily superior in every way. If the citizens of the last city keep going down this hateful road, then I don't know if I'll be able to keep protecting them. I'm don't want to be a Guardian to hateful and ungrateful people.
To bring it to "real life", our behaviors in-game (saying what "we" would do if we had more volition in the game) may just mirror how our political and corporate overlords view us. They believe we're just too stupid and hateful for our own good. So against our will, we should be forced to "do the right thing" according to what they believe is right. See how it works? We'd likely behave exactly like our IRL overlords behave given enough power over others. I think the game may soon bring us a hard lesson in humility.
That's a horrible way to view the world, the people of Les City are wrong for not trusting the cabal or the fallen. But to pretend like their anger is unjustified after the rampant murder of the red war the generational conflict that we've had with the fallen. If we want these people to support us we have to include them in our decision making we aren't king as we are guardians
I mean, we kind of are. Basically immortal, can fly, teleport, control lightning, summon flaming swords and hammers as well as bows of shadow out of thin air, and now we can freeze things in place and create giant walls of ice out of nothing. If I were a normal human in the destiny universe, I would think that guardians were some kind of god, or at least some kind of demi-god.
@@tcfh2003 Seriously. And imagine how terrifying it must be to learn that your demigod protectors are fallible. I can definitely sympathize with the people of the City.
I wonder if Alexi was exiled following the heist from Hakke, when it was revealed that members of their foundry where messing around with Light-inhibiting tech.
This distrust reminded me of Star Wars with the Jedi. Due to the isolation and lack of communication, distrust was sown and then inevitable betrayal from the people they swore to protect.
Well the key difference here was the Jedi were seen as abandoning the people they swore to protect to fight a war that was orchestrated to do just that. They’re peacekeepers, not soldiers. Us guardians are protectors, yes, but we are also absolutely soldiers. We don’t roam the streets to catch petty thieves, investigate murders, or stop runaway sparrows. No, our purpose is to go out and defend humanity by taking the fight to the enemies of humanity and the witness. We didn’t abandon our people to fight a war- the war was our job in the first place. The last city doesn’t trust us because of a lack of understanding. Not because we stopped protecting them- hell we do everything we do to protect them.
Another reason they probably don’t trust us is the current state of the City’s government. The City is run by a council known as the Consensus that normally consists of a representative from all political powers in the city, the Speaker and the three representatives of the Vanguard. However, the previous faction reps fled the City after the Season of Arrivals, the Speaker is dead, and the Hunter Vanguard position remains empty, meaning that all the power on the council belongs to the two remaining Vanguard reps, Zavala and Ikora. Inching closer to a monarchy is one thing, but having it be a Guardian monarchy probably brings a lot of uncomfortable parallels to the Light-blessed warlords that ruled over humanity before the City was founded.
I like to think of the use of Light and Dark like how many think of the use of guns irl. Sure, it'd be super easy to turn your weapon against the defenseless, and the thought and possibility of such an event is scary and would understandably sow distrust. But one can't let said distrust overshadow the good deeds said weapon has done and is capable of.
I can understand why the people of the Last City are starting to think that Guardians are no longer trust worthy. But they have to remember, every Guardian, whether they use Stasis or the Light, still have a choice to use either. And if they give in to corruption by the Darkness or decide to use the Light for evil, is still their choice. If they can't see that, they will need to be shown. To open their eyes to reality.
It would take one warlock, or titan or hunter to put and end to 99% of the last city in less than a day. You can't fight something you can't see, you can't stop a beam of imaginable power sweeping across city landscapes; or a hammer that burns all who come near it to ash. The guardians are murder machines or mass destruction and the only thing keeping people in line. . .is lore and . . . . .honor. (Kind of) If the fallen were anything to go by most guardians would turn the world to ground zero for hurting innocent refuges of the house of light. Espcailly the babies.
The thing is, while the Vanguard is doing right by forging and Alliance with the Caitl and Mithrax…The populace of the Last City is having an extremely hard time adjusting to all these changes. Even if they are ultimately good, without informing or discussing with the Average citizen is going to make them feel anxious and disillusioned. Just because they aren’t empowered with paracausal abilities doesn’t mean they are less-than-or stupid. Nor is their uncertainty of an alliance with Cabal, Eliksni, or having Guardians using Darkness invalid. Especially when you have the Traveler briefly disappearing from the Last City and Ghosts resurrecting Hive. You think the threats Guardians face on daily basis are scary? Imagine facing a Taken Ogre without any space magic, exotic weaponry, or a little buddy to bring you back from the dead. Everything is 1000x more threatening. Is it any wonder why Lakshmi did what did? Yes, she was wrong and paid for it BUT her feelings of distrust and fear were not without some ground. Plus, ultimately the thing Guardians fight for is not just it’s The Last City as place, but all the people within. They are innocents caught in the crossfire of a long, cosmic war they didn’t want or ask for. Against foes most could not even begin to fathom.
There is no reason to really distrust the traveler. It doesnt have our best intentions at heart, but the goal of the light in the game is to bring about a collective power working in unison, while the darkness' objective is to bring about the strongest through individual conflict. The traveler is the ideal option in the game we are pawns in. Unless you prefer endless war and strife where the best outcome for you is everyone else is dead and you are all that is left.
To add on top of that we have all the recent events(crash of the al mighty, endless night, the tower getting taken, the traveller disapering in the last mission) proving that the vanguard/guardians are not that good in protecting the city
It seems the people of the city have gotten too used to the protections of the guardians and ignore the sacrifices that enable their life styles. If you compare races of destiny and their non-combantent civilians, humanity has become spoiled by the blessing of power. While there is understandable reasons for the reactions of those in the city but they seem to keep forgetting of the tragedies and inhuman acts that they do themselves to anything they view as an enemy. I never trusted the people who lived in the city since the taken king and the events of season of the splicer futhered my feelings
I agree, guardians have spent centuries dying for the city until they had their final death. Centuries of non stop war. They call the tower a ivory tower, but it's stone cold metal, storage, barracks, ship storage, weapons storage. The fact that guardians fight so relentlessly so often so that the city can even forget is astounding. How many guardians have been downed permanently to protect the bubble that is the last city? How many centuries spent fighting extinction itself regardless of the foe. Guardians regularly and willing match into each enemy's faction equivalent of hell itself to protect the city. The city people speak like only they are effected, the lucent hive just wiped out an unknown amount of next gen guardians and veterans. Shaw han had to gather a bunch of new lights and take on a bunch of large lucent hive ogre's and light bearers. The guardians are just as shaken if not more so. The edge of the universe itself is coming for sol, the guardians are being battered more than ever. I think the city's people are entirely right to be scared and angry, but they are lashing out in entirely ineffective and self destructive means, doing exactly what our enemies want them to do. The city's population is going to pop their own bubble before the enemy gets the chance and their going to sorely wish they hadn't. They will do something stupid just like they did with the house of light, they will shove us aside and kick open the door, and when they see what horrors await them they will run back in horror begging the very people they just cast out to protect them. Then the cycle will repeat. Lightfall will probably be that cycle breaking.
@@hailstormrising1634 Or it would be the cycle furthering. With the guardians using Strand, I think people would be more scared and distrust the guardians even more. I won't be surprised if the next expansion we see a movement that wants to abolish the guardians from the last city, with the people thinking that they can fend for themselves only to see first hand the horrors that would bring.
@@rightsideup6304 True, although how would they do it? All they can do is demand all light bearers begone. However that only works if the guardians still obey their wishes, if guardians say no and refuse, what power does the city have to force guardians to leave?
This raises the very interesting question of how we explain siding with Savathûn to the people of the city once we inevitably do. I can’t imagine they’re taking us siding with the Cabal well either, all things considered.
Why the hell would we side with Savathun, though? Everyone keeps mentioning that, and it makes the least sense out of any argument. Just because some Ghosts turned on us and chose the wrong side doesn't mean we're "inevitably" siding with Savathun or any Lucent Hive. They're still _Hive._ The Eliksni and Cabal are different, the Hive count on torture and bloodshed just to make it to the next dawn.
@@josefzalusky7307 Pragmatism. Eventually the Witness will arrive with it's fleet and there dozens of pyramids at its disposal, many probably having disciples in them who are just as strong as Rhulk was. Rasputin couldn't stop the fleet and in our current state, we have no chance against them. I doubt Savathun and her brood can win against the Witness alone and eventually, house light, caitels cabal, and likely a light vex division and the lucent brood must stand together if they have any hope of winning.
@@AxisChurchDevotee I feel no shame in letting the Lucent Hive die at the hands of the Witness. One less loose end, if you ask me. With the Awoken, Cabal and the House of Light on our side, we've got all the allies we need. Not to mention whatever Asher's doing with the Vex. If we ever reopen that story beat, that is.
@@josefzalusky7307 Probably not gonna end well without them due to how absurdly strong hive guardians are as canonically, they are stronger than most vanguard guardians not to mention they seem no different from us, especially Luzaku.
In the end, it ultimately doesn’t matter what the citizens think about the guardians. The fact is that the guardians keep the last city safe from outside forces, and without the vanguard, there would be nothing more than cinders
If we end up leaving the last city there won’t be any city. Which might make Savathun statement about the last city not being the last city true. We may actually end up leaving the last city and taking all our Allie’s with us to create a new city where we all thrive together.
@@masterchiefofhalo4525 Thrive? You're talking about a settlement dedicated to the hierarchy of who has the light and who does not. History has shown that conflict always spawns from those who have and those who don't have. It would be a socialistic dictatorship, with the Guardians as the ruling class. Ask any player who considers themselves as a Guardian and ask them if they are equal to a non-light person? Go watch the movie "Defiance", and you will see how "thriving" is defined by the protectors and then the rest of the folks.
Question , what about the lore in titan armour from shaxx in the last season , where he talks about children playing / acting as if they had powers of guardians/sol,void,arc and staisis ?
I think, just like the Shattered Cipher lore entry, it goes to show that children are way more accepting than adults. They don't fear stasis just like they don't fear the eliksni.
I think in one of the future seasons or expansions the exiles guardian factions from earlier are going to come back as pure dark guardians near or during lightfall
I feel as if this is going to be something in the lore that will keep building until it gets to a point where the Vanguard can't contain the mass population's rage that regular Human's are going to go to drastic lengths to defend themselves as they can't trust Guardians. I'm talking in City arms smuggling (which the Spider is *absolutely* going to take advantage of), some civilians fleeing the city towards Dead Orbit/New Monarchy remnants, some banding with some fallen gangs out in the wild, finding and using Golden Age tech (like SIVA) to kill Guardians or even going to find Darkness as a way to rival the Guardians's power. This could turn into a hostile enemy race if left unchecked.
Hey Byf! Do you believe it to be possible that the story could go down a path that sees The Guardian at odds with the civilians of the city, at odds with those who once housed the guardians? As the story for Destiny, both the first and the second, have progressed, the enemies of the city have seemingly decreased. The Eliksni, once led by Kells and most recently led by Erasmis, have no enemy leader. Mithrax, who is the Kell of the House of Light, appears to be an ally to The Guardian; further, Variks appears to be a liaison between the House of Light and the tower. The Hive, was led by Oryx, his sister Savathun, and Xivu Arath. While Xivu Arath still lives, and it would not surprise me to discover that the god of cunning did not meet her end in the campaign of The Witch Queen, Xivu Arath has never made an appearance, in self, at least. The Cabal, led by Emperor Calus, have, at least a splinter group, forged an alliance through Emperess Caiatl. The Vex were defeated in the Garden of Salvation, however the Infinite Forest could be rather unguarded as of yet because of Osiris having been weakened, which could lead to a conflict. The Darkness, which now has a physical form, saw a partial set back with Rhulk's defeat. I could personally see the next expansion favoring a Vex story line, since they have not had some attention for a while, but it always seems to be a repetition of stopping the Vex from doing something that "could" cause a problem, assuming that they are aware of some kind of future we are not.
I kinda want the last city civilization to turn on the guardians. Despite us protecting them we haven't met them. With Zavala and Ikora not fixing the government that represents their part of the city it is bound to happen. No hunter vanguard, no new speaker. Backlash is inevitable.
@@jadennigel773 yet again the factions are out in space since season of the splicer. Guardians are a benefit but it doesn't mean we are absolutely needed
@@divinelawmakers7818 True they did leave, but the factions are a small subset of the population and they’re in space. The city wouldn’t be able to survive for long if the guardians straight up peaced out. Sure, the people they held their own during the Red War, but that was a losing fight. It was a war of attrition, and they were guaranteed to lose if our player guardian didn’t get the light back. I mean even the drifter said it takes 100 of Shaxx’s red jacks to take down a single hive knight. If the guardians left, the city would have to face a lot more than just the Cabal.
So is this just told to us in lore or is it something we see actively in game? Are the NPCs giving us untrusting looks? Is the music in the tower a little more sinister, or off putting? I feel like there should be more immersion. I want to FEEL that uncertainty.
I kinda think this is stupid to some degree. It's as if the Last City has a hive mind no pun intented. The guardians get a new power to fight the enemies of the city and the people respond with doubt and fear as only response? I mainly don't like this because the people of the city has no experience of the darkness powers in form of stasis, for the first time they witness this "icy" new power and instantly recognize it as "the darkness" and get scared. Why? How do they even recognize it? The darkness to them has been either the Hive and it's Hive magic or the Taken, and the stasis represents neither.
The aspects that Stasis possesses are of the same as what occurred in the Collapse. So when the people see (and some few experience) it, they compare them as being similar. Kind of how Ghost initially perceived Stasis as Darkness. Suppose it's an innate sense, like you can feel that it has qualities of the Darkness within it.
@@HintedImage But none of the people in the city experienced the collapse, all they know are some stories. Are they suddenly fearing the people who has been fighting for their survival for decades based on stories from hundreds of years ago? I'm not saying there should not be anyone who fears this new power, but I am not buying the "everyone knows that this new power is darkness, and everyone fears it." It just does not make sense. It's not that big of a deal, it's a videogame story and things are often written simply to fastforward the story but this is a bit of an eye sore.
Guardians threatened violence and used violence against the citizens during the season of the splicer. Whether you are right or wrong does not matter when you force it with the barrel of a gun.
That would be true, if Aisha wasn’t defending an ally of the guardians from an angry mob of people that absolutely were about to kill our ally. Her actions were not only right, they were justified. The only mistake she made was using stasis Instead of summoning a golden gun. Just like crow defending the eliksni settlement in the botza district, not only were the guardians actions the moral high ground, they were justified against armed, violent, dangerous, angry, and emotional volatile people.
@@Musicnote328 Violence does not justify violence. Use of light or dark does not matter when it is wielded against someone. Do you think the people who left that day have seen their actions were not justified and were wrong? No, they will have left with resentment against the guardians as well as increased animosity against the Eliksni. Their anger will have only grown. Aisha and Crow did not diffuse the situation, no... they have only made future occurrences worse. Did Aisha and Crow take action to defuse the situation without the use of violence? So I reiterate, right or wrong does not matter when you force it with the barrel of a gun.
@@mindofthemuseless Warframe player that causally watch lore videos on Destiny 2 for fun Correct me if I was wrong but are you saying if you were in the same situation as this Aisha character, you would just stand by and let the Eliksni be shot to death? Lets pretend just for a second that this isn't a game. You're an Guardian; an Hunter same as Aishia, walking up onto the scene, you see a angry mob surrounded a injured and helpless Eliksni and a man standing over him with a shotgun. He is about to pull the trigger to kill the scared, bleeding, and defenseless alien. You have a split second to act before he shoots the Eliksni! You can try and talk the mob down, however, there is a chance that they might kill the Eliksni especially since the man still has the gun. Or You can use your powers as a Guardian to stop and disarm the man, ensuring the safety of the Eliksni. You mean to tell me that you would rather put the Eliksni's life at risk in order to try and resolve the situation non-violently? Instead of using violence to ensuring his and everyone else's safety by disarming the man? Yes, you can claim that by acting violently could cause the people become even more resentful and angry toward the Guardians. However, wouldn't the same be said about the alliance between the Guardians and the House of Light? Would the Eliksni not get angry toward the Guardians who; in their inaction, failed to protect them? I believe Aisha took the best course of action she could go at the time. Only problem would have been her used of Darkness instead of Light. Even then I believe she was in the right. The only thing she did was disarm the man then defuse the situation by scaring the mob off. She didn't escalate the situation she did not harm the citizens unnecessary. I read this story...well a fanficition really... a while back and there was a quote that I believe explains my views on this perfectly. "You say violence has no place being called wrong or right depending on the situation. I say it does, only when violence is in the defense of people you care for is it acceptable. Violence for the sake of violence has no place in the world." That's all I really wanted to say is that I think Aishia was justified in her actions. I'm not sure about Crow due to my unfamiliarity about the incident with him that was mention soooo -shrugs-
I think the question of a ghosted bind to its light bearer are first brought into question by the story of The Last Word, where Jaren Ward's ghost gives the light to Shin Malphur after Jaren is killed by Yor. We don't know whether Shin had to die first, but it is Jaren's ghost iirc. The second time that bond comes into question is more recent, with Finch.
I think this could be mitigated by the Vanguard and other Guardians making an effort to educate the citizens of the City about Stasis, and remind them of the Dark Ages when the Risen Warlords used the Light just as irresponsibly as some Guardians wield Stasis. That power is not moral in itself, but its morality is chosen by those who wield it. Like in real life, anything can be used as a weapon for murder; a humble kitchen knife could be used to stab another person and kill them, or dice vegetables. A gun is the same; it can be used to murder someone in cold blood, or ward off an attacker to protect yourself or someone you care about.
Not just educate, but have an open discussion with allowance to dissent. If we want them to understand us, we have to understand them too. The growing distrust and fear aren’t completely unfounded. Especially in the shoes of a regular Lightless person caught between a war of immortals and cosmic forces.
The interesting thing thing that I think a lot of people in the Last City take for granted is that the City is not necessary for the Guardians. The opinion of the citizenry towards the guardians is not nearly as important as the opinion of the guardians towards the city. That is essentially the difference between a Guardian and a Risen. Do they protect Humanity. We owe the citizens almost nothing, but they owe us a ton. For Six Fronts, Twilight Gap, Oryx, Axis, and Gaul just to name a few. Without them we would have nothing besides the traveler and each other to defend, a bunch of immortals defending a god, but without us humanity would be extinct. I think this lack of understanding may in an odd way be taken as a sign of success in its own right. The people of the city take the Guardians for granted as such, and are only now beginning to remember that we are all just Rizen who chose to be what we are, instead of what we could be.
Unfortunately that would lead to the complete annihilation of the last city and possibly the extinction of humanity, aside from the one guardian that chooses to become a disciple (even if offered). The city needs to remember that the reason they’re safe (for the most part) is us, and driving all the guardians out would leave them exposed and vulnerable. And I’m pretty sure a buckshot round isn’t gonna do anything to the witness.
@@Musicnote328 The pyramid on Europa is likely to be "ours" if one of us (probably the main character guardian) fell to darkness and became disciple... I suppose that the reason why we got the stasis is the witness's attempt to make us to "Rhulk but it is human".
So, we only exist in the City because... The people allow it? I don't know if these people realize, but Guardians wield space magic that can bend the very fabric of reality, possess weapons with the souls of Hive gods, and of course have the ability to time travel (Because of course Drifter, Shaxx, and Saladin have that power). If the people are unable to accept that we're the good guys after defending them and their precious City time and again, maybe we should invoke the name of Dominus Ghaul who razed the City? Or invoke the name of Carnunta, or Citan, or even that of the Red Man who all have in some part oppressed Humanity? Maybe we should remind them that being a Risen doesn't mean we're "protectors", we choose to protect willingly? If they want to know what's going on, they should've set up a Government or at the very least a Consensus? Oh wait, they tried that already and it failed when Concordat attempted a coup, and when Laksmi welcomed the Vex into the City walls. Such distrust can cause a loss of moral and motivation. I sure hope there's enough Guardians that are willing to defend the City still.
The Farm was better anyway Lets see how long the city stands without Guardian support Maybe Callus has some loot aswell if we join him , atleast he and the farm people was a more friendly place
People of the city don't trust guardians well I well I don't trust the people the city either anymore because one if not multiple of them massacred my boy. (The ramen Eliksni) As far as I'm concerned for the people who murdered the homie, I'm just gonna let the Lucent Hive eat them.
I think there needs to be a comma after city, in the title. When I initially read the title it kind of threw me off. And then I read it if there were a comma applied and then it made sense. I always love your content and the stories you come up with. Keep up the great work.
I think this misunderstanding and inability to see nuance all stems from the speaker. The turned the traveler into a god and the light into a religion. Everything else was evil monsters of the darkness.
With a clear division forming between the guardians and the citizens of the last city, i kinda hope there will be more non guardian characters more prevalent in future story events, heck, Hawthorne was only really present in the original Red War campaign if i remember correctly, then she just became the clan person where you get your banners and clan xp rewards. I just hope the writers haven’t completely forgotten about her
Thinking of the comment on the Iron Lords, have you read the Lucent Tales lore? Wonder just how involved the Traveler is with the choosing a guardian with one ghost not wanting a Guardian, another wants to give light to a plant. "There's no rule book."
Hey, it's not my fault that the hive managed to start weilding the light. And it's also not my fault that i willing started using stasis because it was a shiney new things. And it's definitely not my fault that i went permanently killing a load of light bearers with stasis rather than just killing them once and walking past them.
This is honestly working both ways. After witnessing the same people I've vowed to protect attack and even murder innocent eliksni, I've started to lose faith in them they should be smart enough to understand the nuanced aspects of the galaxy they find themselves in. I dont want to defend the people who claim to want the return of our golden age, but have yet to provide proof that they are worthy of it.
I really do think that the people of the last city are probably the most ungrateful "race" in the franchise. All too quick to take up arms when their previous comfortable lives are threatened by harmless Fallen but no one Civilian has ever been mentioned in the lore, taking up arms against a real threat. happy for us to fight and die at their convenience but bolt when the enemy is at the front door or betray us when we have to use similar tools as our enemies to defeat them. Would be nice to these "people" in the wild, doing things like transporting resources and etc.... making the solar system feel alive
I mean the citizens are kept in the dark somewhat, we're out on the front lines absorbing all these interactions and new information, while the citizens are stuck with mostly old info for a while Imagine hearing stories about dregs eating people and then the next day there eliksni in the city and you're told, "yeah they're friendly"
Except they do exactly what you say they should. The man who attacked the Eliksni before Aisha stepped in? He lost a family member who was “out in the wild, transporting resources” to the Eliksni. Then you have the city militia and the FOTC. They all assist us guardians in the field- where do you think the drake tanks come from? Amanda Holliday isn’t a Guardian. Neither is Devrim and they assist us at a moments notice. The forces that brought us to to farm, that Hawthorne led before she went to the tower exist as well. There are human forces that do exactly what you say they should. I’m not disagreeing with you that the citizens of the city are looking to bite the hand that feeds them, and are ungrateful for the sacrifices made by the guardian ranks to protect them. But all the “real” threats that we have faced would have annihilated any non guardians within minutes had they been involved. The only real threats that humans can feasibly fight are The Fallen, as every single other race poses too high of a threat for a lightless human to take on. That’s the point of us guardians- to fight the battles they never could.
if we ever get a season involving the citizens of the city going on riots, that would be really cool. idk how they’d do it, but if they could pull it off, that would be awesome
I mean doing such a thing would bother me morally cause I stand against riots. I feel like it'd be almost No Russian to me probably not a good example, but that's what I feel. Granted I'd love the story from it, but us intervening would bother me, cause it'd be a matter of how we handle it. It could be us handling it peacefully, or how Asha handle it(more or less a warning), then there's the option of ruling with an iron fist of fear. If anything it'd be a matter of what the community chooses. By keeping the trust of the people or put fear into them.
I think the malleable structure of Ghosts is the lore explanation to ghost shells and how we can change them constantly over and over, and it makes sense, I also think Ghosts may very well be able to revive just about anything, (thinking about a future Guardian Caitl or Mithrax), seeing as how the Traveler had chosen Eliksni previously to Humanity, and how Ghaul was able to wield the light aswell. The only thing that remains is their selectiveness, perhaps Imaru was already evil or just Destined to revive Savathun, Ghosts are said to have been created by the Traveler ages ago, and just recently did Crow and Savathun get revived, who knows who else will rise as a lightbearer in the future.
Fr tho, Splicer really made me hate the residents of the city, we do so fucking much for them and the moment we bring in war refugees, they start throwing a hissy fit
@@dreadangel3752 Yeah, it’s not like the Fallen started committing widespread genocide against humanity as soon as they set foot on Earth. Definitely not any long-standing resentment for being hunted down and murdered just because the Traveler left them and not us.
@@dreadangel3752 The Dark Ages and life behind walls has taught the people that life is black and white. It's hard to accept different outlooks when the person who was leading the City for much of it's existence was a masked priest. To be fair though, the Endless Night had them already on edge and they had come to understand that the Fallen were monsters(which only makes sense because that's what parents told their kids to scare them into behaving). Lakshmi-2 didn't help at all and neither did the Vanguard.
@@dreadangel3752 well they are the same race as the guys that ate some grandpa's grandkids. would you not throw a hissy fit if war refugees were suddenly placed near you when the only thing you know about them is that they're vicious killers?
@@dreadangel3752 I don’t really blame the citizens for that tho, considering it was the race that had been trying to genocide humanity for centuries. That trauma doesn’t just disappear, much as we might like it to. And yeah, not all House Light Eliksni killed humans, but one of the earliest Fallen to start the attack on humanity was hiding among House Salvation and then House Light, and Mithrax knew about him and never told any human/guardian about him. So yeah, I get being frustrated at the LC citizens, but I understand them too, and I don’t think I’d feel differently than they do if I were in their shoes. We have the advantage of overarching context through lore. Just something to keep in mind
Basically, the Guardians who use Stasis need to launch an information campaign. Light and Darkness are forces of nature and the universe. Light can be used for evil, and Darkness can be used for good. It all depends on the one who wields them.
My Hunter says "fck the normies" and is happy to stay out in the wild away from them. My Warlock doesn't care as long as he gets to study the nature of the Light and Dark and the renewed question of "can the Traveler be trusted". My Titan wants to protect the citizens, as is a Titan's duty... but would begrudgingly leave if the citizens wanted him to. And the Last City would fall if the Guardians stopped... guarding. I wonder if Lightfall will be the culmination of all this distrust and discord. Will the Witness be victorious with a Collapse 2.0?
why in the world would you think the guardians are BEHOLDEN to the normies they are there to protect? the OPPOSITE of that is true. without the guardians, the people wouldve died decades, hell, CENTURIES ago. THEY are beholden to the GUARDIANS.
I’ve seen this phenomenon before. I call it “Have-Not” Syndrome. Those who don’t have power to wield, entrust their safety to those who do blindly. Suddenly a change in the status quo sends the have-nots into a frenzy of worry. Then the ones who feel their place in the universe shrinking (due to witnessing it’s unfathomable size), turn against their protectors. All of the sudden, a people are divided. If you’re Black in America, you’ve seen this before.
The comments on this video are really just proving the peoples’ points when they say they’re losing trust. Instead of trying to meet the people halfway, or making any efforts at all to regain trust, we get “f you, sheep. It’s my way or the highway” Such a stupid and childish mindset that will only lead to more conflict and distrust.
Interestingly, one of the seasonal armour pieces- the Tusked Allegiance class item- covers Drifter being caught with a dead Hive Ghost. Might be the same on from Hoarfrost-Z.
The last city has nothing to fear from us.
Until they become an exotic quest objective.
No, last city children don't have to fear me.
Not unless I can turn them into a gun!
This
That feels like Anakin slaughtering the younglings in Revenge of the Sith
@@cartercravillion
Baby Fallen: Master guardian there are too many of them. What are we going to do?
Young Wolf: (Bastion charging noises)
@@fuckinantipope5511 YOU MONSTER
I like the way you think
Stasis is not inherently evil, just the people in crucible that freeze, one punch and then t-bag me 👍
Exactly, just how our light powers aren’t inherently good. The past displays this very perfectly as guardians wielded their power for selfish and greedy reasons.
Also light abonded so many races
Agreed, bonus points because I have to do the Witherhoard catalyst.
@@makscepura3572 Not the light, the traveler. The light is just a force, same as darkness. If you want to blame anyone for being cruel, uncaring, manipulative, blame the traveler and whoever controls it.
@@sauceinmyface9302 right fair point
I really wish we could interact with the people of the last city, I'd be nice to have a connection between them and guardians.
And have them be like people in idiocracy.
“Shut up metal guy! I’m trying to watch ‘Ow, my balls!’”
Definitely the biggest mistake they’ve made with destiny 1 and 2. Would’ve done a lot for the world building
Yeah. Imagine getting random quests from them for example retrieving some old family heirloom left in the edz during the collapse or avenging their family member that died during one of the many conflicts the city has had by killing their killer and if you do enough their dialogue will be more respectful and you'll receive gifts every now and then. Something like that would be nice.
@@sithticklefingers7255 lol
Also, having Hive as a playable Guardian race would be _so_ cool. But, alas, we are talking about Bungo, who have a _very_ impressive track record in missed opportunities 😞. FYI, I stopped playing *_Destiny_* during _The Rise of Iron,_ but have followed *_Destiny 2_* closely, perhaps out of morbid curiosity 🤔.
As Byf said, most of this growing animosity comes from a lack of understanding on the part of the people of the city and a lack of communication from the vanguard. Educating the civilian populace on the intricacies of light and dark and the forces commanding them would go far to ease these growing tensions. They ought to appoint someone to hold public symposiums inthe city to spread knowledge amongst the people
The actions of season of the splicer are starting to have ripping consequences. While they sometimes caused much trouble, Lackshmi and the rest of the factions provided order by being representatives for the common citizens and gave had a relationship in the Consensus. Without them now, there is no communication between the Vanguard and humanity; no relationships. We have Suraya, But that’s it. We need a new council of representatives for the citizens, like Saint for the Elksni, or a new Spreaker (possibly Eido?). But, Ikora and Zavala are too preoccupied with the war effort to fill these voids and appoint a new Hunter Vanguard. The risk of loosing the City in Lightfall is much higher if we don’t find replacements for these roles on the Consensus.
Do you think that be easy considering Hawthorne.
Speaker 2.0
Or maybe a twitter page??
Hawthorne is meant to be a bridge in communication between the tower and city.
Obviously not doing her job
The lore of Destiny has been getting better and better, season after season. It doesn’t just deal with the big names anymore, we get background characters cropping up like Chalco or Fenchurch. It’s been really cool to get snippets of reactions from ordinary citizens of the City, and see how individual people and Guardians react to Stasis, the Eliksni, everything going on. Short of being able to go into The City and talk to people, this has been great to see.
Hello Adam Wilson, I have you informed that we, the people, will not stand by and fall under the Vanguard’s negligence. We shall take over and give rise to our beloved, and majesty, Tess Eververse🤧
#towerisoverparty
For real! I think the lore entry for The Rigby Family might be someone the most interesting
@@slayye5677 The Lore of destiny has been getting better and better season after season but the PVP keeps getting worse and worse season after season
if only the game itself was getting better and better and more enjoyable
While definitely not good because it's a lot harder to protect someone who doesn't trust you, we are still massively more powerful than anything the city could even dream of matching. Without the Guardians, the last city falls.
I was just struck by something... That sounds an awful lot like the scenario set up in the backstory of Rhulk with Lubrae. Let's try to learn from history before we repeat it.
@@BerenElendilAPGaming honestly thats a pretty good observation 👌
@@BerenElendilAPGaming true. Then the Darkness Will turn to someone desperate enough from the ones Who no longer beliefs in the Traveller and turn them against us, killing us from the inside
The last city is not the last city...
lol if it were up to me id give them a choice, let us protect them or they can protect themselves
Vriksis’s brother is NOT dead. He was tortured and mutilated, but he clearly escaped in the Shattered Cipher lore tab. He’s also theorized to be the three armed Vandal named Piiksi from the Lorentz Driver lore tab.
@@TheLukimifish he means Shattered Cypher lore, it's implied that the brother isn't dead yet but the lore on Lorentz is up for grabs in my opinion
@@TheLukimifish My bad, I meant Shattered Cipher. Fixed the original comment. The other lore tab can be found on Ishtar Collective.
Piiksi is a female Eliksni.
@@trashman4910
No, Piiksi is male. The lore tab reads:
"What about this rifle?" Skorso asks over the sound of two Brigs moving cargo. Her overseer, a three-armed Vandal named Piiksi, pulls back the drop-cloth covering it. He takes a moment to assess the way the rifle is pieced together from non-weapon components, then motions toward where the Brigs are walking.
"Good meals can still spoil," Piiksi says. "Bring it. But all these spare parts can be left behind."
Skorso nods in acknowledgement, but instead of immediately returning to work, she sidles up close to Piiksi, her eyes darting around the warehouse. "Is this really happening?" she asks in a whisper.
Piiksi steps away from her as she sets the rifle down on a nearby crate. "Maybe. Two hands in greeting, two hands concealed. It is a matter of survival."
Skorso challenges Piiksi's avoidance and circles around the crate, four eyes narrowed. "Spider's scared," she whispers again. "Isn't he?"
Piiksi quickly leans in. "You say that any louder, and I can't protect you from what will happen next," he says in a sharp whisper, glancing over his shoulder.
"Where would we even go?" Skorso asks, searching Piiksi's many eyes. Her supervisor's answer is a backpedaling shrug.
"Don't know," Piiksi lies and gives her a toothy smile. "But like some Eliksni say: the Light provides."
@@H240909 i hope they are
NGL, because we've never really been able to actually go and interact with the people of the last city IN the last city, them being disgruntled or untrusting doesn't mean much to me anymore, it feels like they're a total nonentity at this point, hell at this point I know more about how the Eliksni live in the last city more then the greater populace because I was able to go through their living space and learn about them...
Agreed, I don't give a fuck what the people of the last city think. To me they're opinions don't mean shit.
If i was in the last city at this point I would just go back to the farm it was so wholesome there
Except for all the eliksni, cabal, and taken constantly stealing supplies and poisoning the water supply lol
I want the farm back as well, and be able to easily access it from orbit instead of going into the edz screen. I fucking loved the farm. It was so calm there
Well, we could get the farm back as part of Lightfall...
@@randomisedusername You may have been right
@@randomisedusername You have may have been right
I wish there was a lore entry from a crucible spectators/crucible competitors about stasis and seeing it in the crucible. It’d be interesting to see how it is viewed through a sports sort of lens
"cawm on ingerland, throw moar facking stasis"
There’s lore pertaining to stasis in the Crucible. One Warclock, a Shadebinder, was anxious that Shaxx saw them use stasis, but the Crucible handler didn’t see an issue with it. Even when the Guardian’s body was shattered except for his boots. Another piece of lore describes Shaxx pausing a match to acknowledge a Hunter, Titan, and Warlock’s new stasis abilities and Supers, as they’ve used them. Stating he is proud they came to him for guidance in honing they’re new powers. As a ex-warlord, Shaxx knows what it’s like to be viewed as a monster or outcast, one that has done terrible things. He encouraged Guardians to use stasis, and that, the weapon doesn’t make the wielder a monster, otherwise they were a monster to begin with. With his dark past, he’s able to see the shades of grey.
@@garrettviewegh677shaxx will always be 300% based
Aisha is one of my favorite 'minor' characters in the lore. Her story with Shayura and Reed is incredible... I really hope they don't get torn apart any more.
What interactions did she have with Shayura and Reed? Is that somewhere in the trials weapons lore tabs?
@@benm3017 Oh, tons of interactions. Aisha, Shayura, and Reed are all part of a fireteam who enter Saint XIV's trials together. From the lore of different class's Trials armors, you get the same scenes from different perspectives. Weapons usually have stuff too. Aisha's Embrace's lore made me cry a little.
Shayura's typically involve hive-based trauma hallucinations, and her fanatical devotion to light.
Aisha's revolve around solitude and isolation due to her acceptance of the taboo Stasis powers of Darkness, regardless of how it's just another tool to save lives.
Reed's scenes generally seem to discuss how much of a stabilizer he is for the team, and how he's the anchor the other two can rely on to always be there- Taking a bit of a neutral stance, willing to hear out all sides.
But there's so many really good interactions. Like, just tiny little things. like how Aisha is scared of spiders. And how Shay gets her drinks with extra cinnamon or whatever. It's evident that they all have history, and it really feels like a glimpse into lives that really exists. The writers did excellently with these three characters, I think.
isnt Aisha dead now?
@@Gorotth The lore behind the recent Scout Rifle (from Trials) "Aisha's Embrace" tells us that Shayura has been arrested and possibly placed under proper medical care... thanks to Aisha. That woman is a kind soul.
Same, friend ! Really appreciating Aisha !
When I learned that Aisha was a Hunter using Stasis, I was thinking "Hey hey hey, hold on a second. There was a female Guardian wielding Stasis who saved the brother of the missing Eliksni ! I bet that's her !" ... It was.
And when I saw how much she cared about Shayura, despite her terrible actions due to scarred mental state, Aisha reached MVP-NPC status to me.
Wonder how they’ll feel if we weren’t there to protect them lol
Think back to the red war, where we couldn't do anything to stop ghoul from just rolling over us
@@eliaspanayi3465 I mean kinda at first but very quickly we were able to stop him
Yeah, whine and complain until they need us
Ash and cinder don’t have feelings so… 🤷🏼♂️
Trust us or not they don’t have a choice. I want to see how a few thousand citizens handle an army of taken or an invasion of vex.
My amateur analysis of the situation: I feel like because certain parties such as the Speaker and the Vanguard, wanting more devoted followers to support them and join their ranks, made the Light into a religion rather than a tool/technology. The effect of that indoctrination has now caused the residents to see the existence of Lucent Hive as a betrayal by their "God", and Stasis users as Guardians joining the "bad guy's" side.
To me, it's now clear that both Light and Darkness are merely tools, but certain entities (the Witness, people in the City who want to cause chaos for one reason or another) want the masses to believe that either one is inherently a "good" or "bad" power, thus leading to more distrust and division.
During this year, before Lightfall, we should have the story become a little more focused on the City and the citizens, to help them understand and gain their trust. Maybe not a full seasonal focus, but part of a seasonal story line.
We have representatives of each allied faction in our Coalition: Caital for the Cabal, Mara for the Awoken, the Vanguard for Humanity, and Mithraks for the Elksni. What we really need for the City are representatives to fill the voids left by the factions. Saint-14 for the Elksni, Suraya for humanity in the City, Saladin for the Cabal and City’s relationship, and Eido could possibly be the new Speaker. We have a council of representatives for the coming war. We need a council for the City to fill the spots in the Consensus, and a new Hunter Vanguard. Unfortunately, Zavala and Ikora are already too busy to consider candidates to appoint these new roles. It must be done soon though, otherwise the City may be destroyed from within before the Witness arrives due to discord and fear.
Given that savathun literally took the traveler I'd like to know the reaction the people of the last city had seeing it gone
i feel like there will be a city unrest season or if not that the city will have something happen to it in lightfall
Lightfall won’t be the Witness.
It’ll be a rebellion by the City itself.
@@whisperofthebookworm5341 If the city tries to step up to the Guardians they’re going to get a really horrific awaking.
I’m starting to have some second thoughts about wielding darkness as a ‘force’.
Shin Malphur, Shayura, and the reports of Ikora’s hidden make it very clear to me at least, that while the Light does not make you incorruptible, the Dark tries _very, _*_very_*_ hard_ to corrupt you.
I don’t think things are as grey as we’ve been led to believe. I’m reminded of lore from other universes, specifically Mass Effect, where the Reaper relied upon the races of the galaxy to progress along predictable lines.
What if the Witness is not suprised about us using Stasis.
_What if he’s counting on it_
The Darkness by its very principals will encourage corruption, the witness likely pushed us to use stasis in hopes that by using it more and more well abandon the Light entirely. That being said its clear that the outcome Elsie Bray is hoping will occur this time is enough will wield both for the force for good.
I am so glad I'm not the only one who thinks this way.
Yeah i doubt hes surprised about stasis but he definitely will be surprised by the strand
I don’t really care how the people feel. That’s one issue that Bungie has created with not giving us the ability to interact with the people in the city. It could be a small hub which they typically are, but just a small section of the city where you can explore to see inhabitants from their perspective. Because the way it is right now, guardians are constantly separated from the people. We are exploring the universe in our spaceships and when we stop in to visit, we only go to the tower. Acting like God‘s looking down upon the people from above. There’s no real interaction there. Hawthorne and moments like that are helpful but they are far too few in between. So again, I have no investment or interest or care in the people of the city because that sentiment has never been instilled or created with the set ups as they are now. The people And how they feel …. means nothing
@@phnx_tom5400 what citizens lol 😂😉👍
Even if we did have a way to interact with the citizens, there would always be an ocean of separation between us. Guardians casually kill themselves for fun and have slain gods. No amount of fake dialogue trees can change that. But I also think that’s kinda cool as we’re kinda proving the civilians right.
@@peoplebullyme8198 I hear you but that’s not really the point here. It’s not about interacting with civilians as a fellow civilian, because guardians are not that. But as it has always been and currently is, the people of the city mean absolutely nothing to us guardians because we never see them. We are not a part of that city. We do not interact with the city or its inhabitants. We cannot walk in streets or see its peoples. The city and its inhabitants mean about as much to us guardians as a random planet that we have not visited multiple galaxies away from us… It just has no meaning. It would be better if Bungie could allow us to visit and interact with some small section of the city. That way you could feel some minor connection to this city and people that you are supposedly supposed to be protecting. Not as a god apathetically looking down from a tower as you pass by, but instead as a wandering adventurer who visits the streets of the city they are from/protecting and hearing the conversations of his people as well as seeing them.
I thought it would have been cool if they just not only gave you the ability to visit and interact with the city but also if they put up some kind of bounty board. That way believed interaction would be a recycling of a few bounties that correlate to the EDZ or a Kosmodrome, that you could accomplish for supposedly some of the cities inhabitants. Maybe finding some needed materials, collecting a lost item, etc . It could be literally the same thing as a lot of the destination bounties we already have except this would be, from a immersive standpoint, a more direct interaction with the city you are from and its people. Even if just to create the illusion that you are doing something for the people and creating that “care”
@@grimmjow0106 Wouldn't that separation be considered a point, then? They don't see them, the guardians don't really interact with them or think of them at all. They are protectors of a people they don't know or care about past being their protectors. They are too busy out there killing gods and making them into guns to prepare for further conflicts to go and interact with the lightless.
@@fluidwolf true but byf is making a point here about how the people do not trust us. Or they are losing trust in us. Not so much him as he is merely pointing out what thelore is saying in regards to that point. So bungee is creating a lore narrative for us to contemplate or consider which involves the people of the city losing trust in us. And the problem is that bungie things we are supposed to care. For the very same points you just made, we do not care. Bungie is creating a story narrative here that is supposed to be important in some regard, but because they have failed to allow us guardians to interact or be involved with the people of the city/the city in any meaningful way… Even a small one… We could care less. So the story narrative that they are introducing becomes a waste of time. Because we guardians do not care about the people of city because we do not know them. We do not know the city. We merely observe it from the tower and then go back out in the space. The city and the people the city mean absolutely nothing to us because there’s no interaction there. So bungees attempt at us caring about what the people the city think about us or how they feel, is wasted words. Hollow in meaningless to us guardians. There’s no reason for us to care what the people to city think or how they feel as that is some foreign entity that means absolutely nothing to us beyond in name
It's almost like the people of the last city have forgotten that even lightbearers did horrible things to their ancestors before the birth of the Last City, they are judging too early and it's going to bite them in the ass when they go to ostracized the people who are protecting them from the real danger that coming.
That’s where the saying, “don’t bite the hand that feeds you,” comes in
eh, it makes sense why they'd react the way they are. sudden acceptance of a species that have been trying to kill them for their entire history which spans 1000s of years probably, guardians using stasis against their governing bodies wishes who have said that they don't condone it(the vanguard) and now hive guardians, not the easiest changes to get used to in the span of just 1 year. really would seem like things are turning towards darkness, something that nearly caused humanities extinction(kinda made worse by the fact that basically all enemy races have been described as forces of darkness despite the fact that only the hive, taken and scorn really fit this description). housing the fallen in the tower all of a sudden is also a pretty bad idea. this seems like a big communication issue on the part of the vanguard
That’s why their opinion doesn’t matter to me. My character is an immortal god killer. What can they do to my character? Hurl curses and slurs at me? How many times have we probably been called terrible things by the beings we slaughter for fun?
@@jadennigel773 they most likely won't bite back, but to them, they see the hand that feeds them as a tyrannical and dangerous one.
blame the vanguard for their reasoning on that
I hate to be the one to stay this, but because of the fact the Last city has become more autocratic and less democratic (regardless if Zavala and Ikora are too) is one of the reasons why this has happened. As much as I agree Bringing in the House of light and cabal truce was a good idea, they should have consolidated with the people on these issues. As much as they are very emotional and might be stubborn, leaving them in the dark and consolidating the tower’s power has led to this distrust.
The Last City was never democratic to begin with, the main factions were High tech doomsdayprepers, people who specifically want to leave earth behind and people who want to install a king ... It was an oligarchy comprised of people with the most arms and resources.
@@sayantanm2 what about the speaker
It that was the case then the alliance would’ve never happened. No offense but the people are clueless and aren’t aware of what really goes on so they wouldn’t understand. This isn’t entirely their fault tho
The city has always been an authoritarian theocracy. Heresy laws exist and people were routinely exiled for looking into the wrong things. We play as guardians so we see things through rose colored glasses but the government of the last city is ultimately antithetical to most western values.
@@killtheheretics2915 the pope of the Holy Roman Empire
On one hand I agree with them that guardians and the Vanguard aren't trustworthy.
but on the other hand "Good" and "Evil" isn't a binary system so they shouldn't be attacking Eliksni and condemning stasis.
They shouldnt be doing that, sure, but they grew up with this system being in place for centuries. It makes sense that having unilateral decisions by the Vanguard thrust upon the general populace would cause uproar
I completely understand how most Last City citizens are starting to distrust the guardians considering they know next to nothing about the darkness, why and how guardians use stasis, and the story surrounding the hive ghosts and savathun. The vanguard has, quite frankly, done a piss-poor job at explaining what has been going on over the last 2 years to the last city and just expect the citizens to blindly trust what they and the guardians do.
These misunderstandings could be easily solved if the vanguard took the time to appoint someone to explain everything to the last city, possibly someone who is a liason between the guardians and the citizens and literally stays a few feet away from the Warlock Vanguard(*cough* Hawthorne *cough*).
Like a "speaker" for the tower
@@yodagaming5905 Wow, you just made me realize just how important the speaker's job actually was in keeping the city united. We need a new speaker, and quickly.
I would say crow would become the new speaker, but I'm still not sure if they plan on making him the next hunter vanguard or not.
When Hawthorne was introduced at the beginning of Destiny 2 I thought she would play a larger role in the future, her whole shtick about bridging the Guardians with the citizenry, but she became as irrelevant as the Farm. I don't think she has gotten a single line of dialogue since vanilla.
Stuff like this makes me really excited to see Lysander show his face and what turmoil that could create
I think now would be a perfect time to bring that one faction back that took all 3 factions of the City to dismantle. (FWC, NM, DO). I don’t remember what the faction was called but I remember it in the D1 lore that some of those faction members are operating in the shadows or something like that. Unless I missed the part that they are completely wiped out, now would be the perfect time for them to come back. The 3 factions are gone and the people of the city are having major doubts. Another new enemy faction would be most welcomed too.
The factions name is the concordat
I miss dead orbit
The concordat, however as far as I remember new monarchy made all of the heavy fighting
I'd love to walk through the Last City we protect- see the people and places we protect and we call home. Sure the Tower is our main base, but the City is where we all live.
Honestly thought we'd get that in d2 launch, woulda been a better way to make us care about the last city
Ooooh maybe have some venders we access in the city like the currency black market or we could visit the eliskni quarter and buy materials from house light or potentially a cabal section in the city and buy weapons from them. If only 🤤.
If it were realistic, it probably wouldn't be that good of an idea, since a lot would rebel regardless of what the guardians and the vanguard do for them and it would probably make a lot of guardians sour. (guardians as in the characters, not the players)
@@Intruse that's the charm though about the last safe city. I wanna know that my actions as a super guardian mean something. That's why I think when Lakshmi and the whole Osiris thing was super awesome and why the story now with lord Saladin is great
"Oye! Drifter! You still saving me a seat on that ship of yours, right?"
I mean, them distrusting us is largely irrelevant. We are essentially gods to them, and there is no way for them to physically survive without us. They cant lord over us due to the power imbalance, and we have been making the objectively correct judgement calls with our alliances, which turned out saved the humans repeatedly. It sucks that they are largely powerless over their own fate... but what are they going to do, realistically? Its not like they could ever stop even a single guardian that wanted them dead.
At least from the description of the Hoarfrost-Z chest piece, its not like they aren't unwilling or incapable of learning how. While Spider might not have outright animosity, its not hard to see that some people do and that they are trying to at least find out how ghosts, light, dark and such things work to at least be able to manipulate them. Even from the lore tab, they have at least discovered a way to at least disable/incapacitate ghost to a degree (even if they one they tried it one was dead) so it not a stretch to say that they aren't going to try harder.
And its not that the Guardians are gods. We're just a little more durable than the average person and so can take repeated abuse. The saying goes 'if it can bleed, it can die' and in this case, we know that Guardians aren't completely invincible and undying. Not only does Cayde prove this but the fact that Guardians kill other (Hive) Guardians on the regular.
Realistically, yeah they can do nothing.
But people need to at least feel like they can do something otherwise it feels like a dictatorship, then an unhappy/discontent population is a lot harder to convince to just go about their lives and leave the ruling class in relative peace.
@@Mariusweeddeath You cannot kill a guardian or a ghost without either darkness or light. Guardians can kill guardians extremely easily. Someone who is lightless and darkless will need some method of using either or to kill a guardian. Cayde actually proved that.
@@lokky9550 I mean, what are they realistically going to do? Kill themselves to death? A single guardian will wipe all of them out and be back in time for lunch.
@@Mariusweeddeath See- that would be true if humans could kill a ghost. BUT it’s been very clear that to truly die a final death, a Guardian has to be killed and the ghost has to be killed by a very limited amount of things. Thorn, or a weapon of sorrow that would drain a guardian of their light; The Darkness; a light suppression device or another Guardian. Those are really the only things that can kill a guardian permanently, none of which humanity possesses. Plus, we also wield the light and can break the laws of physics at will.
“if it can bleed, it can die” doesn’t apply when your enemy breaks the laws that govern the universe, can be resurrected and you have absolutely no possible way of preventing either.
Well at this point it is either work with us or die.
Same with the Traveler. I don't trust the Traveler to be looking after us, but I have to work with it otherwise we all die.
Unleeeeeeeeeeeess *looks at stasis*
@@TheMightyBattleSquid yeah but your ghost needs light to resurrect you. Without the light you die once, and kaput you are dead… this time, for good.
@@TheMightyBattleSquid The darkness gave us those powers, it can probably take it away.
@@ryancroy Stasis comes from within, darkness mainly helped us draw it out.
@@ryancroy unleeeeeeeeeess looks at strand
Finally more city politics, after Tommy's matchbook lore came out I got really interested in the city politics specifically city-guardian relations
At 11:50 wouldn’t the line,”They’re using the dark to blind us…” refer to the endless night. I assume the word “They’re” would refer to The Vex or The Fallen (since The Citizens thought The House of Light put the endless night on us,thanks to FWC) instead of The Guardians.
You are right. At that moment in time the Endless Night was blamed on the house of light by the FWC.
I was going to say the same thing, I don't think this lore tab is relevant to the video's topic.
@@jem-jams the city, more over FWC used the Endless Night as justification to attack and kill members of the house of light, despite, militarily, being the worst thing to do. Kinda a stretch, but it does prove the civilian population of the city does not trust the vanguard's judgement all the time
@@alongfortheride1016 yeah that makes sense tbh
As a lightbearer and subsequently a guardian, I look at the citizens of the last city and just see unfortunate fools. We definitely need more communication between both sides.
Every relationship is a two way street, and this is no different. From my knowledge, all guardians (risen that choose to protect the last city) have been the only ones giving. We give our blood, sweat and tears, almost literally. Thanks to ghosts we give our lives, multiple times, for the sake of protecting the last city because that is what we believe is right. Many guardians have lost their light to fend off threats that would have wiped the entire city flat. Thanks to the light we have been able to accomplish feats that would be near impossible to a normal person.
What have the citizens of the last city given us? Distrust and animosity.
When we tried to seek peace through diplomatic means with other races, they hated us for it. When we managed to enter an alliance with Caiatl, they hated us for it. Whatever we do seems wrong in their eyes. Would they rather have us let Caiatl flatten the last city? The cabal have more powerful weapons in their arsenal than we do, now that we lost Rasputin, and even if he returns I doubt he'll be connected to his previous network. Apart from that what do we have? Cargo planes, tanks, and thankfully, near immortal soldiers. Lose the guardians and the cabal are militarily superior in every way.
If the citizens of the last city keep going down this hateful road, then I don't know if I'll be able to keep protecting them.
I'm don't want to be a Guardian to hateful and ungrateful people.
To bring it to "real life", our behaviors in-game (saying what "we" would do if we had more volition in the game) may just mirror how our political and corporate overlords view us. They believe we're just too stupid and hateful for our own good. So against our will, we should be forced to "do the right thing" according to what they believe is right.
See how it works? We'd likely behave exactly like our IRL overlords behave given enough power over others. I think the game may soon bring us a hard lesson in humility.
That's a horrible way to view the world, the people of Les City are wrong for not trusting the cabal or the fallen. But to pretend like their anger is unjustified after the rampant murder of the red war the generational conflict that we've had with the fallen. If we want these people to support us we have to include them in our decision making we aren't king as we are guardians
Ib4 the thumbnail changes. "The City know the truth" Much love Byf, and love the constant content this season!
I loved that description of stasis, because it really highlighted how to the people of the city, the guardians are practically gods
I mean, we kind of are. Basically immortal, can fly, teleport, control lightning, summon flaming swords and hammers as well as bows of shadow out of thin air, and now we can freeze things in place and create giant walls of ice out of nothing.
If I were a normal human in the destiny universe, I would think that guardians were some kind of god, or at least some kind of demi-god.
@@tcfh2003 Seriously. And imagine how terrifying it must be to learn that your demigod protectors are fallible. I can definitely sympathize with the people of the City.
I wonder if Alexi was exiled following the heist from Hakke, when it was revealed that members of their foundry where messing around with Light-inhibiting tech.
I also wonder if he was the same guy that was about to kill that Elkinsi with a shotgun, before Aisha stopped him?
This distrust reminded me of Star Wars with the Jedi. Due to the isolation and lack of communication, distrust was sown and then inevitable betrayal from the people they swore to protect.
Well the key difference here was the Jedi were seen as abandoning the people they swore to protect to fight a war that was orchestrated to do just that. They’re peacekeepers, not soldiers.
Us guardians are protectors, yes, but we are also absolutely soldiers. We don’t roam the streets to catch petty thieves, investigate murders, or stop runaway sparrows. No, our purpose is to go out and defend humanity by taking the fight to the enemies of humanity and the witness. We didn’t abandon our people to fight a war- the war was our job in the first place.
The last city doesn’t trust us because of a lack of understanding. Not because we stopped protecting them- hell we do everything we do to protect them.
@@Musicnote328 Jesus... Imagine if there was martial law and we cracked down hard on petty crime. That would be fcked
@@eyo8766 and because of the fact that as guardians we only really know war there would be problems of us being wayyyyyy to0 trigger happy
@@papercamera2989 with how much I've experienced, if I heard of some crime in the city, I would nova bomb the area indiscriminately
@@eyo8766 one of the hidden already did that for a situation with a dregen within the city
Another reason they probably don’t trust us is the current state of the City’s government. The City is run by a council known as the Consensus that normally consists of a representative from all political powers in the city, the Speaker and the three representatives of the Vanguard.
However, the previous faction reps fled the City after the Season of Arrivals, the Speaker is dead, and the Hunter Vanguard position remains empty, meaning that all the power on the council belongs to the two remaining Vanguard reps, Zavala and Ikora. Inching closer to a monarchy is one thing, but having it be a Guardian monarchy probably brings a lot of uncomfortable parallels to the Light-blessed warlords that ruled over humanity before the City was founded.
I like to think of the use of Light and Dark like how many think of the use of guns irl.
Sure, it'd be super easy to turn your weapon against the defenseless, and the thought and possibility of such an event is scary and would understandably sow distrust. But one can't let said distrust overshadow the good deeds said weapon has done and is capable of.
I can understand why the people of the Last City are starting to think that Guardians are no longer trust worthy. But they have to remember, every Guardian, whether they use Stasis or the Light, still have a choice to use either. And if they give in to corruption by the Darkness or decide to use the Light for evil, is still their choice. If they can't see that, they will need to be shown. To open their eyes to reality.
It would take one warlock, or titan or hunter to put and end to 99% of the last city in less than a day. You can't fight something you can't see, you can't stop a beam of imaginable power sweeping across city landscapes; or a hammer that burns all who come near it to ash. The guardians are murder machines or mass destruction and the only thing keeping people in line. . .is lore and . . . . .honor. (Kind of)
If the fallen were anything to go by most guardians would turn the world to ground zero for hurting innocent refuges of the house of light. Espcailly the babies.
The thing is, while the Vanguard is doing right by forging and Alliance with the Caitl and Mithrax…The populace of the Last City is having an extremely hard time adjusting to all these changes. Even if they are ultimately good, without informing or discussing with the Average citizen is going to make them feel anxious and disillusioned.
Just because they aren’t empowered with paracausal abilities doesn’t mean they are less-than-or stupid.
Nor is their uncertainty of an alliance with Cabal, Eliksni, or having Guardians using Darkness invalid. Especially when you have the Traveler briefly disappearing from the Last City and Ghosts resurrecting Hive.
You think the threats Guardians face on daily basis are scary? Imagine facing a Taken Ogre without any space magic, exotic weaponry, or a little buddy to bring you back from the dead.
Everything is 1000x more threatening.
Is it any wonder why Lakshmi did what did? Yes, she was wrong and paid for it BUT her feelings of distrust and fear were not without some ground.
Plus, ultimately the thing Guardians fight for is not just it’s The Last City as place, but all the people within. They are innocents caught in the crossfire of a long, cosmic war they didn’t want or ask for.
Against foes most could not even begin to fathom.
Ah yes, the truest and most ancient of humanity's rivals; public opinion.
Can't say I blame them, honestly. I don't really trust the Traveler right now either
I know right it seems like hes been a giant a**hole
If you read books of sorrow you dont trust it for really long time
@@anoia7783 you mean the hive propaganda that was proven to be wrong in the witchqueen?
@@anoia7783 The Books of Sorrow whose premise (the Godwave) turned out to be a lie?
There is no reason to really distrust the traveler. It doesnt have our best intentions at heart, but the goal of the light in the game is to bring about a collective power working in unison, while the darkness' objective is to bring about the strongest through individual conflict. The traveler is the ideal option in the game we are pawns in. Unless you prefer endless war and strife where the best outcome for you is everyone else is dead and you are all that is left.
To add on top of that we have all the recent events(crash of the al mighty, endless night, the tower getting taken, the traveller disapering in the last mission) proving that the vanguard/guardians are not that good in protecting the city
I figured the Hive Ghost's shell was just a Hive themed version of our Ghosts' default white star shaped shell.
It seems the people of the city have gotten too used to the protections of the guardians and ignore the sacrifices that enable their life styles. If you compare races of destiny and their non-combantent civilians, humanity has become spoiled by the blessing of power. While there is understandable reasons for the reactions of those in the city but they seem to keep forgetting of the tragedies and inhuman acts that they do themselves to anything they view as an enemy. I never trusted the people who lived in the city since the taken king and the events of season of the splicer futhered my feelings
I agree, guardians have spent centuries dying for the city until they had their final death. Centuries of non stop war. They call the tower a ivory tower, but it's stone cold metal, storage, barracks, ship storage, weapons storage. The fact that guardians fight so relentlessly so often so that the city can even forget is astounding. How many guardians have been downed permanently to protect the bubble that is the last city? How many centuries spent fighting extinction itself regardless of the foe. Guardians regularly and willing match into each enemy's faction equivalent of hell itself to protect the city. The city people speak like only they are effected, the lucent hive just wiped out an unknown amount of next gen guardians and veterans. Shaw han had to gather a bunch of new lights and take on a bunch of large lucent hive ogre's and light bearers. The guardians are just as shaken if not more so. The edge of the universe itself is coming for sol, the guardians are being battered more than ever. I think the city's people are entirely right to be scared and angry, but they are lashing out in entirely ineffective and self destructive means, doing exactly what our enemies want them to do. The city's population is going to pop their own bubble before the enemy gets the chance and their going to sorely wish they hadn't. They will do something stupid just like they did with the house of light, they will shove us aside and kick open the door, and when they see what horrors await them they will run back in horror begging the very people they just cast out to protect them. Then the cycle will repeat. Lightfall will probably be that cycle breaking.
@@hailstormrising1634 Or it would be the cycle furthering. With the guardians using Strand, I think people would be more scared and distrust the guardians even more. I won't be surprised if the next expansion we see a movement that wants to abolish the guardians from the last city, with the people thinking that they can fend for themselves only to see first hand the horrors that would bring.
@@rightsideup6304 True, although how would they do it? All they can do is demand all light bearers begone. However that only works if the guardians still obey their wishes, if guardians say no and refuse, what power does the city have to force guardians to leave?
@@hailstormrising1634 amazing theory
Wait....was the Osiris situation seriously not kept confidential? I feel like letting that get out was a bad idea.
Nothing to suggest that the people of the last city know about osiris afaik. Think byf just revealed a bit of his head cannon to us then.
This raises the very interesting question of how we explain siding with Savathûn to the people of the city once we inevitably do. I can’t imagine they’re taking us siding with the Cabal well either, all things considered.
Why the hell would we side with Savathun, though? Everyone keeps mentioning that, and it makes the least sense out of any argument. Just because some Ghosts turned on us and chose the wrong side doesn't mean we're "inevitably" siding with Savathun or any Lucent Hive. They're still _Hive._ The Eliksni and Cabal are different, the Hive count on torture and bloodshed just to make it to the next dawn.
@@josefzalusky7307 Pragmatism. Eventually the Witness will arrive with it's fleet and there dozens of pyramids at its disposal, many probably having disciples in them who are just as strong as Rhulk was. Rasputin couldn't stop the fleet and in our current state, we have no chance against them.
I doubt Savathun and her brood can win against the Witness alone and eventually, house light, caitels cabal, and likely a light vex division and the lucent brood must stand together if they have any hope of winning.
@@AxisChurchDevotee I feel no shame in letting the Lucent Hive die at the hands of the Witness. One less loose end, if you ask me. With the Awoken, Cabal and the House of Light on our side, we've got all the allies we need. Not to mention whatever Asher's doing with the Vex. If we ever reopen that story beat, that is.
@@josefzalusky7307 Probably not gonna end well without them due to how absurdly strong hive guardians are as canonically, they are stronger than most vanguard guardians not to mention they seem no different from us, especially Luzaku.
@@AxisChurchDevotee We can't trust them to join us. Unless they come crawling to us, begging for an alliance, they can burn.
In the end, it ultimately doesn’t matter what the citizens think about the guardians. The fact is that the guardians keep the last city safe from outside forces, and without the vanguard, there would be nothing more than cinders
There'd be nothing left to protect if the citizens start killing each other because of distrust.
It's another trip to the dark ages if the Vanguard high tails it out of the last city
If we end up leaving the last city there won’t be any city. Which might make Savathun statement about the last city not being the last city true. We may actually end up leaving the last city and taking all our Allie’s with us to create a new city where we all thrive together.
@@masterchiefofhalo4525 Thrive? You're talking about a settlement dedicated to the hierarchy of who has the light and who does not. History has shown that conflict always spawns from those who have and those who don't have. It would be a socialistic dictatorship, with the Guardians as the ruling class. Ask any player who considers themselves as a Guardian and ask them if they are equal to a non-light person? Go watch the movie "Defiance", and you will see how "thriving" is defined by the protectors and then the rest of the folks.
Hey if they don't want our protectiom, they can always join Dead Orbit and New Monarchy... and leave the city lol
That Vriiksis story still devastates me haha
Question , what about the lore in titan armour from shaxx in the last season , where he talks about children playing / acting as if they had powers of guardians/sol,void,arc and staisis ?
what's the armors name?
@@CoolBird420 Cinder pnion I think
@@juliusdepravedprince7104 yup , that's the one
I think, just like the Shattered Cipher lore entry, it goes to show that children are way more accepting than adults. They don't fear stasis just like they don't fear the eliksni.
@@tcfh2003 shaxx did say it worried him tho.
I think in one of the future seasons or expansions the exiles guardian factions from earlier are going to come back as pure dark guardians near or during lightfall
I feel as if this is going to be something in the lore that will keep building until it gets to a point where the Vanguard can't contain the mass population's rage that regular Human's are going to go to drastic lengths to defend themselves as they can't trust Guardians.
I'm talking in City arms smuggling (which the Spider is *absolutely* going to take advantage of), some civilians fleeing the city towards Dead Orbit/New Monarchy remnants, some banding with some fallen gangs out in the wild, finding and using Golden Age tech (like SIVA) to kill Guardians or even going to find Darkness as a way to rival the Guardians's power. This could turn into a hostile enemy race if left unchecked.
I wonder, assuming Mithrax and house light repair insurrection prime, could some last city citizen hijack it and use it against the vanguard?
Regarding Riiswalker's lore page, is that the same Aisha as the new Trials scout rifle?
Yes
If they don’t trust us they could go right back out the walls where the hive and fallen as are
Also thought it would be a good idea to have different dialoguewhen using the darkness as it slowly ‘poisons’ the mind of our guardians.
Hey Byf! Do you believe it to be possible that the story could go down a path that sees The Guardian at odds with the civilians of the city, at odds with those who once housed the guardians?
As the story for Destiny, both the first and the second, have progressed, the enemies of the city have seemingly decreased. The Eliksni, once led by Kells and most recently led by Erasmis, have no enemy leader. Mithrax, who is the Kell of the House of Light, appears to be an ally to The Guardian; further, Variks appears to be a liaison between the House of Light and the tower. The Hive, was led by Oryx, his sister Savathun, and Xivu Arath. While Xivu Arath still lives, and it would not surprise me to discover that the god of cunning did not meet her end in the campaign of The Witch Queen, Xivu Arath has never made an appearance, in self, at least. The Cabal, led by Emperor Calus, have, at least a splinter group, forged an alliance through Emperess Caiatl. The Vex were defeated in the Garden of Salvation, however the Infinite Forest could be rather unguarded as of yet because of Osiris having been weakened, which could lead to a conflict. The Darkness, which now has a physical form, saw a partial set back with Rhulk's defeat. I could personally see the next expansion favoring a Vex story line, since they have not had some attention for a while, but it always seems to be a repetition of stopping the Vex from doing something that "could" cause a problem, assuming that they are aware of some kind of future we are not.
The Vanguard's days have been numbered ever since the death of Cayde-6.
I kinda want the last city civilization to turn on the guardians.
Despite us protecting them we haven't met them. With Zavala and Ikora not fixing the government that represents their part of the city it is bound to happen.
No hunter vanguard, no new speaker.
Backlash is inevitable.
Or Lysander and his concordat could use all this unrest and distrust to gain power again
@@killtheheretics2915 I would love that
That would be a bad idea on the people’s part. Without the guardians, the city would be ashes within a week
@@jadennigel773 yet again the factions are out in space since season of the splicer. Guardians are a benefit but it doesn't mean we are absolutely needed
@@divinelawmakers7818 True they did leave, but the factions are a small subset of the population and they’re in space. The city wouldn’t be able to survive for long if the guardians straight up peaced out. Sure, the people they held their own during the Red War, but that was a losing fight. It was a war of attrition, and they were guaranteed to lose if our player guardian didn’t get the light back. I mean even the drifter said it takes 100 of Shaxx’s red jacks to take down a single hive knight. If the guardians left, the city would have to face a lot more than just the Cabal.
So is this just told to us in lore or is it something we see actively in game? Are the NPCs giving us untrusting looks? Is the music in the tower a little more sinister, or off putting?
I feel like there should be more immersion. I want to FEEL that uncertainty.
The music in the tower has changed, slightly, over time.
I really hope we get a season focused on the City as a whole, and interacting with the people and re-building trust.
Including telling the people of the city about the witness and that it tricked the hive, which were supposed to be blessed by the traveler, like us...
I just read this lore tab on the armor. This is the result of the changing of an ideology.
I kinda think this is stupid to some degree. It's as if the Last City has a hive mind no pun intented. The guardians get a new power to fight the enemies of the city and the people respond with doubt and fear as only response? I mainly don't like this because the people of the city has no experience of the darkness powers in form of stasis, for the first time they witness this "icy" new power and instantly recognize it as "the darkness" and get scared. Why? How do they even recognize it? The darkness to them has been either the Hive and it's Hive magic or the Taken, and the stasis represents neither.
The aspects that Stasis possesses are of the same as what occurred in the Collapse.
So when the people see (and some few experience) it, they compare them as being similar.
Kind of how Ghost initially perceived Stasis as Darkness. Suppose it's an innate sense, like you can feel that it has qualities of the Darkness within it.
@@HintedImage But none of the people in the city experienced the collapse, all they know are some stories. Are they suddenly fearing the people who has been fighting for their survival for decades based on stories from hundreds of years ago?
I'm not saying there should not be anyone who fears this new power, but I am not buying the "everyone knows that this new power is darkness, and everyone fears it." It just does not make sense.
It's not that big of a deal, it's a videogame story and things are often written simply to fastforward the story but this is a bit of an eye sore.
There’s a saying: “No one should fight in a burning house.”
Guardians threatened violence and used violence against the citizens during the season of the splicer. Whether you are right or wrong does not matter when you force it with the barrel of a gun.
That would be true, if Aisha wasn’t defending an ally of the guardians from an angry mob of people that absolutely were about to kill our ally. Her actions were not only right, they were justified. The only mistake she made was using stasis Instead of summoning a golden gun.
Just like crow defending the eliksni settlement in the botza district, not only were the guardians actions the moral high ground, they were justified against armed, violent, dangerous, angry, and emotional volatile people.
@@Musicnote328 Violence does not justify violence. Use of light or dark does not matter when it is wielded against someone. Do you think the people who left that day have seen their actions were not justified and were wrong? No, they will have left with resentment against the guardians as well as increased animosity against the Eliksni. Their anger will have only grown. Aisha and Crow did not diffuse the situation, no... they have only made future occurrences worse. Did Aisha and Crow take action to defuse the situation without the use of violence? So I reiterate, right or wrong does not matter when you force it with the barrel of a gun.
@@mindofthemuseless Warframe player that causally watch lore videos on Destiny 2 for fun
Correct me if I was wrong but are you saying if you were in the same situation as this Aisha character, you would just stand by and let the Eliksni be shot to death? Lets pretend just for a second that this isn't a game. You're an Guardian; an Hunter same as Aishia, walking up onto the scene, you see a angry mob surrounded a injured and helpless Eliksni and a man standing over him with a shotgun. He is about to pull the trigger to kill the scared, bleeding, and defenseless alien. You have a split second to act before he shoots the Eliksni! You can try and talk the mob down, however, there is a chance that they might kill the Eliksni especially since the man still has the gun.
Or
You can use your powers as a Guardian to stop and disarm the man, ensuring the safety of the Eliksni.
You mean to tell me that you would rather put the Eliksni's life at risk in order to try and resolve the situation non-violently? Instead of using violence to ensuring his and everyone else's safety by disarming the man? Yes, you can claim that by acting violently could cause the people become even more resentful and angry toward the Guardians. However, wouldn't the same be said about the alliance between the Guardians and the House of Light? Would the Eliksni not get angry toward the Guardians who; in their inaction, failed to protect them?
I believe Aisha took the best course of action she could go at the time. Only problem would have been her used of Darkness instead of Light. Even then I believe she was in the right. The only thing she did was disarm the man then defuse the situation by scaring the mob off. She didn't escalate the situation she did not harm the citizens unnecessary.
I read this story...well a fanficition really... a while back and there was a quote that I believe explains my views on this perfectly.
"You say violence has no place being called wrong or right depending on the situation. I say it does, only when violence is in the defense of people you care for is it acceptable. Violence for the sake of violence has no place in the world."
That's all I really wanted to say is that I think Aishia was justified in her actions. I'm not sure about Crow due to my unfamiliarity about the incident with him that was mention soooo -shrugs-
I think the question of a ghosted bind to its light bearer are first brought into question by the story of The Last Word, where Jaren Ward's ghost gives the light to Shin Malphur after Jaren is killed by Yor. We don't know whether Shin had to die first, but it is Jaren's ghost iirc. The second time that bond comes into question is more recent, with Finch.
I think this could be mitigated by the Vanguard and other Guardians making an effort to educate the citizens of the City about Stasis, and remind them of the Dark Ages when the Risen Warlords used the Light just as irresponsibly as some Guardians wield Stasis. That power is not moral in itself, but its morality is chosen by those who wield it. Like in real life, anything can be used as a weapon for murder; a humble kitchen knife could be used to stab another person and kill them, or dice vegetables. A gun is the same; it can be used to murder someone in cold blood, or ward off an attacker to protect yourself or someone you care about.
Not just educate, but have an open discussion with allowance to dissent.
If we want them to understand us, we have to understand them too. The growing distrust and fear aren’t completely unfounded.
Especially in the shoes of a regular Lightless person caught between a war of immortals and cosmic forces.
We guardians are not beholden to civilians. We chose to allow them that belief, so we can have some semblance of peace.
The interesting thing thing that I think a lot of people in the Last City take for granted is that the City is not necessary for the Guardians. The opinion of the citizenry towards the guardians is not nearly as important as the opinion of the guardians towards the city. That is essentially the difference between a Guardian and a Risen. Do they protect Humanity. We owe the citizens almost nothing, but they owe us a ton. For Six Fronts, Twilight Gap, Oryx, Axis, and Gaul just to name a few. Without them we would have nothing besides the traveler and each other to defend, a bunch of immortals defending a god, but without us humanity would be extinct. I think this lack of understanding may in an odd way be taken as a sign of success in its own right. The people of the city take the Guardians for granted as such, and are only now beginning to remember that we are all just Rizen who chose to be what we are, instead of what we could be.
Nah Humanity builds the weapons the vehicles the mods and sometimes even the armor.
It doesn't matter what the people think because were out here carrying the fuck outta them. They don't get to decide.
Imagine if we end up getting a “season of the city” where we’re driven out and the last city becomes an enemy faction we inevitably have to face
It’d be a kill them all situation and they would be on the losing side
Unfortunately that would lead to the complete annihilation of the last city and possibly the extinction of humanity, aside from the one guardian that chooses to become a disciple (even if offered).
The city needs to remember that the reason they’re safe (for the most part) is us, and driving all the guardians out would leave them exposed and vulnerable. And I’m pretty sure a buckshot round isn’t gonna do anything to the witness.
@@Musicnote328 The pyramid on Europa is likely to be "ours" if one of us (probably the main character guardian) fell to darkness and became disciple...
I suppose that the reason why we got the stasis is the witness's attempt to make us to "Rhulk but it is human".
Knowing how the traveler stays in the city for protection, if that happened, the traveler would probably just move to where the guardians are.
@@gackolpz what I would give to see the look on their faces when the Traveler peaces out
ALL I GOTTA SAY IS "Ok lightless, get outta my city then."
The people of the city seem to forget there only is a last safe city in the first place because of us. They shouldn't take that for granted
Saint -14 is quite close with the people of the city more so the children but I feel like he could play a major role in this part of the story
So, we only exist in the City because... The people allow it? I don't know if these people realize, but Guardians wield space magic that can bend the very fabric of reality, possess weapons with the souls of Hive gods, and of course have the ability to time travel (Because of course Drifter, Shaxx, and Saladin have that power). If the people are unable to accept that we're the good guys after defending them and their precious City time and again, maybe we should invoke the name of Dominus Ghaul who razed the City? Or invoke the name of Carnunta, or Citan, or even that of the Red Man who all have in some part oppressed Humanity? Maybe we should remind them that being a Risen doesn't mean we're "protectors", we choose to protect willingly? If they want to know what's going on, they should've set up a Government or at the very least a Consensus? Oh wait, they tried that already and it failed when Concordat attempted a coup, and when Laksmi welcomed the Vex into the City walls. Such distrust can cause a loss of moral and motivation. I sure hope there's enough Guardians that are willing to defend the City still.
Also, the hunter from the Riiswalker story, the kind of hero we should all aspire to be.
The Farm was better anyway
Lets see how long the city stands without Guardian support
Maybe Callus has some loot aswell if we join him , atleast he and the farm people was a more friendly place
Me seeing the title of this video : oh no oh shit I knew that's going to happen I just hoped it'd never come true
People of the city don't trust guardians well I well I don't trust the people the city either anymore because one if not multiple of them massacred my boy. (The ramen Eliksni)
As far as I'm concerned for the people who murdered the homie, I'm just gonna let the Lucent Hive eat them.
I think there needs to be a comma after city, in the title. When I initially read the title it kind of threw me off. And then I read it if there were a comma applied and then it made sense. I always love your content and the stories you come up with. Keep up the great work.
I think this misunderstanding and inability to see nuance all stems from the speaker. The turned the traveler into a god and the light into a religion. Everything else was evil monsters of the darkness.
Honey wake up new byf upload
With a clear division forming between the guardians and the citizens of the last city, i kinda hope there will be more non guardian characters more prevalent in future story events, heck, Hawthorne was only really present in the original Red War campaign if i remember correctly, then she just became the clan person where you get your banners and clan xp rewards. I just hope the writers haven’t completely forgotten about her
Thinking of the comment on the Iron Lords, have you read the Lucent Tales lore? Wonder just how involved the Traveler is with the choosing a guardian with one ghost not wanting a Guardian, another wants to give light to a plant. "There's no rule book."
Hey, it's not my fault that the hive managed to start weilding the light. And it's also not my fault that i willing started using stasis because it was a shiney new things. And it's definitely not my fault that i went permanently killing a load of light bearers with stasis rather than just killing them once and walking past them.
This is honestly working both ways. After witnessing the same people I've vowed to protect attack and even murder innocent eliksni, I've started to lose faith in them they should be smart enough to understand the nuanced aspects of the galaxy they find themselves in. I dont want to defend the people who claim to want the return of our golden age, but have yet to provide proof that they are worthy of it.
I really do think that the people of the last city are probably the most ungrateful "race" in the franchise.
All too quick to take up arms when their previous comfortable lives are threatened by harmless Fallen but no one Civilian has ever been mentioned in the lore, taking up arms against a real threat.
happy for us to fight and die at their convenience but bolt when the enemy is at the front door or betray us when we have to use similar tools as our enemies to defeat them.
Would be nice to these "people" in the wild, doing things like transporting resources and etc.... making the solar system feel alive
I mean the citizens are kept in the dark somewhat, we're out on the front lines absorbing all these interactions and new information, while the citizens are stuck with mostly old info for a while
Imagine hearing stories about dregs eating people and then the next day there eliksni in the city and you're told, "yeah they're friendly"
Except they do exactly what you say they should. The man who attacked the Eliksni before Aisha stepped in? He lost a family member who was “out in the wild, transporting resources” to the Eliksni. Then you have the city militia and the FOTC. They all assist us guardians in the field- where do you think the drake tanks come from? Amanda Holliday isn’t a Guardian. Neither is Devrim and they assist us at a moments notice. The forces that brought us to to farm, that Hawthorne led before she went to the tower exist as well. There are human forces that do exactly what you say they should.
I’m not disagreeing with you that the citizens of the city are looking to bite the hand that feeds them, and are ungrateful for the sacrifices made by the guardian ranks to protect them.
But all the “real” threats that we have faced would have annihilated any non guardians within minutes had they been involved. The only real threats that humans can feasibly fight are The Fallen, as every single other race poses too high of a threat for a lightless human to take on. That’s the point of us guardians- to fight the battles they never could.
I'll never turn against my allies unless they become an exotic gun
Imagine we get a civil war season in the future.
I imagined this as a guardian radio show that I listened to while doing basic patrols
if we ever get a season involving the citizens of the city going on riots, that would be really cool. idk how they’d do it, but if they could pull it off, that would be awesome
I mean doing such a thing would bother me morally cause I stand against riots. I feel like it'd be almost No Russian to me probably not a good example, but that's what I feel. Granted I'd love the story from it, but us intervening would bother me, cause it'd be a matter of how we handle it. It could be us handling it peacefully, or how Asha handle it(more or less a warning), then there's the option of ruling with an iron fist of fear. If anything it'd be a matter of what the community chooses. By keeping the trust of the people or put fear into them.
I think the malleable structure of Ghosts is the lore explanation to ghost shells and how we can change them constantly over and over, and it makes sense, I also think Ghosts may very well be able to revive just about anything, (thinking about a future Guardian Caitl or Mithrax), seeing as how the Traveler had chosen Eliksni previously to Humanity, and how Ghaul was able to wield the light aswell.
The only thing that remains is their selectiveness, perhaps Imaru was already evil or just Destined to revive Savathun, Ghosts are said to have been created by the Traveler ages ago, and just recently did Crow and Savathun get revived, who knows who else will rise as a lightbearer in the future.
Notification Squad
Assemble
Squaaaaddddddd
What are we doing, get this man Byf to a million subs already, he has been are destiny lore man forever, he deserves it!!
Cannot imagine caring what regular people think in that universe
Fr tho, Splicer really made me hate the residents of the city, we do so fucking much for them and the moment we bring in war refugees, they start throwing a hissy fit
@@dreadangel3752 Yeah, it’s not like the Fallen started committing widespread genocide against humanity as soon as they set foot on Earth. Definitely not any long-standing resentment for being hunted down and murdered just because the Traveler left them and not us.
@@dreadangel3752 The Dark Ages and life behind walls has taught the people that life is black and white. It's hard to accept different outlooks when the person who was leading the City for much of it's existence was a masked priest.
To be fair though, the Endless Night had them already on edge and they had come to understand that the Fallen were monsters(which only makes sense because that's what parents told their kids to scare them into behaving). Lakshmi-2 didn't help at all and neither did the Vanguard.
@@dreadangel3752 well they are the same race as the guys that ate some grandpa's grandkids. would you not throw a hissy fit if war refugees were suddenly placed near you when the only thing you know about them is that they're vicious killers?
@@dreadangel3752 I don’t really blame the citizens for that tho, considering it was the race that had been trying to genocide humanity for centuries. That trauma doesn’t just disappear, much as we might like it to. And yeah, not all House Light Eliksni killed humans, but one of the earliest Fallen to start the attack on humanity was hiding among House Salvation and then House Light, and Mithrax knew about him and never told any human/guardian about him. So yeah, I get being frustrated at the LC citizens, but I understand them too, and I don’t think I’d feel differently than they do if I were in their shoes. We have the advantage of overarching context through lore. Just something to keep in mind
Basically, the Guardians who use Stasis need to launch an information campaign. Light and Darkness are forces of nature and the universe. Light can be used for evil, and Darkness can be used for good. It all depends on the one who wields them.
My Hunter says "fck the normies" and is happy to stay out in the wild away from them.
My Warlock doesn't care as long as he gets to study the nature of the Light and Dark and the renewed question of "can the Traveler be trusted".
My Titan wants to protect the citizens, as is a Titan's duty... but would begrudgingly leave if the citizens wanted him to.
And the Last City would fall if the Guardians stopped... guarding. I wonder if Lightfall will be the culmination of all this distrust and discord. Will the Witness be victorious with a Collapse 2.0?
This. Actually hurt, more than I expected
why in the world would you think the guardians are BEHOLDEN to the normies they are there to protect? the OPPOSITE of that is true. without the guardians, the people wouldve died decades, hell, CENTURIES ago. THEY are beholden to the GUARDIANS.
Since they don't want me I'm not doing anymore bounties or missions they can fend for themselves...I'm kicking my feet up and chilling
I’ve seen this phenomenon before. I call it “Have-Not” Syndrome. Those who don’t have power to wield, entrust their safety to those who do blindly. Suddenly a change in the status quo sends the have-nots into a frenzy of worry. Then the ones who feel their place in the universe shrinking (due to witnessing it’s unfathomable size), turn against their protectors. All of the sudden, a people are divided. If you’re Black in America, you’ve seen this before.
this is an excellent narrative angle for Lysander to return to
The comments on this video are really just proving the peoples’ points when they say they’re losing trust. Instead of trying to meet the people halfway, or making any efforts at all to regain trust, we get “f you, sheep. It’s my way or the highway” Such a stupid and childish mindset that will only lead to more conflict and distrust.
Destiny player base does overlap with redditors you know. So no surprise there
I mean it doesnt help that we have no interaction with the citizens thats why the playerbase doesnt really care about them
Interestingly, one of the seasonal armour pieces- the Tusked Allegiance class item- covers Drifter being caught with a dead Hive Ghost. Might be the same on from Hoarfrost-Z.