Buffy The Vampire Slayer S06E22 'Grave''♡Reaction & Review♡
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- Опубликовано: 16 окт 2023
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Willow explained when she took Giles’ power that it connected her to everyone and everything, and the sheer amount of pain and suffering in the world is too much to bear. That’s why she wants to destroy the world.
Spike definitely went through those trials to get his soul back, not to remove the chip. He mentioned the chip when asked what Buffy has reduced him to, it was written that way to confuse the audience into thinking he was there to remove the chip, so that when we get that line that he has his soul again, it comes as a surprise.
Yeah the writing was to mislead us, and it was good. But I never believed it, myself. For two reasons : a demon in a cave is not the thing I would think of to get rid of a chip deep in someone's brain. It's technology and medicine, not magic. So I was like "WHAT ? It's silly, it's an ancient demon, and the chip is something really new and human made... That doesn't make sense." So at the end, I was like : "that's more like iiiiit !" XD
And the other reason : Spike didn't need to remove the chip to hurt Buffy, he can do that already. He knows,Buffy knows and we do to. And he proved it again with the bathroom scene... So I was confused back then, until the final scene. XD
I think this was supposed to (additionally) show us the power of the demon itself - spike tried to lie to him with an excuse, but the beast saw right through his lies :ם
I think he meant that she reduced Spike to a slave for her (she kinda did, from Spike's perspective itself, he even sang it in the musical), I don't think he was thinking about Spike's actual physical abilities :ם
@@Sytrylt It's technology and medicine, but what doctor could Spike go to that he could trust to remove the chip not kill him while he's vulnerable on a table? Even an evil doctor would have to have his own motive to want Spike to be chip free if that were what he was going for. Removing a bullet is also something done by medicine, so why did Willow remove Buffy's bullet using magic? IF that doesn't make sense? Obviously he was going for the soul, not the chip, BUT IF he were trying to get the chip out passing tests that a demon would have to grant a magic wish for would be a way to go that a vampire could trust.
At 18:03 she ruined it for herself by having the subtitles on when the demon said they’d return his soul, and before that she did it with Giles’ opening line of “I’d like to test that theory”. I knew long ago to turn off those damn subtitles because sometimes you’re able to read it a few seconds before the actual moment and it kinda kills the vibe. You don’t get to feel the height of the emotion when intended and it ends up being you focusing on re-reading the words instead of paying attention to the moment.
Yeah the writing leads you to believe Spike wants revenge, but when he says "make me what I was so I can be the man Buffy deserves", he means make him more like a human, so that he can understand and feel like a real man by getting his soul back.
Right !! Also the soul is William's soul. It can't be someone else's. So it's what he was originally, too.
Lttle known detail: The location that Xander talked Willow down is the same place that Buffy talked Angel down back in season 3's Amends.
Huh, I didn't know that.
I did not know that. **shocked Pikachu face**
I am doing a Wayne’s World “we’re not worthy” right now
I really don't think it was. The place where Angel and Buffy were in Amends overlooked the town. Kingman's Bluff overlooks the ocean.
@@cirrustate8674 Truly never thought of that, but my information comes straight out of the Buffyverse Wiki.
You were right. The plan all along was Spike went to get his soul back. He knew he was a monster and he went to get Buffy what she deserves. A man instead of a monster. Of course we were led to believe it was to get the chip out, by clever word play. And many thought that he went to get the chip out, but the demon gave him a sould instead, but the writers confirmed that no, it was the sould he intended to get all along.
Not to mention that he already could hurt Buffy without getting his chip removed, so he wouldn't need to have the chip out to give what she deserved. Not to mention, why go to demons and do trials to get a chip out, that's something for a surgery-- better than the guy in season 5, or perhaps witchcraft.
The way Spike was talking was a double entendre intended as a red herring. I think the confusion is due to the herring being a little too red -- on a rewatch, knowing what Spike is aiming at, his words do not make that much sense.
Fun fact: Giles laugh when buffy told him that she slept with spike wasnt in the script. He really laughed. Even sahra had to start laughing and they kept it in
Really? 😱🤣
But... that's the crucial part! It was the perfect response, the only one that could've worked! Were he to say something like "Oh my god", he would lose her. Maybe they'd still save the world, but she would go and off herself afterwards. But he laughed, and thus lifted a little that gigantic granit ball pinning her down. And she could breathe again.
I start crying as soon as Xander steps into the green fire.
Same. Even 41 years later... lol
Edit: I know it's 21 years. I'm exaggerating because it's been over 2 decades and I'm still bawling over it.
I get redoubled feels when he shrugs off serious lacerations, as if they were just a sharp slap.
3:50 The real reason why every woman loves Giles: he's the man who immediately notices when she gets a new hairdo. ☺
Willow was feeling all of the pain of everyone in the world all at once, and decided that the only way to end the unbearable suffering of all of those people was to end the world.
I loved the grave paralell too. Started out the season alone and afraid, clawing her own way out in the middle of the night. She ended it not alone and with a renewed sense of hope, climbing out with the help of her sister, into a beautiful sunny day.
I'm so glad, ur the only reactor who understood buffy not telling dawn
Also, a lot faster on the uptake when it comes to plot twists! Sofie gets a lot of stuff way before I did, in real time.
What happens to Willow when she takes Giles' borrowed magic is akin to what happens to Cordelia at the end of Season 1 of Angel. Each is now connected to all the pain and suffering in the world. It overwhelms both of them. Cordelia is still connected to her own humanity, but having no magic strength is unable to move or speak. Willow, with her magic strength, is able to remain conscious, but having cut herself off from her own humanity can only see ending the pain by destroying everything. When the curse is lifted from Cordelia, she's more deeply in touch with her humanity, expressed through greater compassion. When Willow (thanks to Xander) is able to contact her humanity, she can finally express her grief.
The beautiful platonic love of Willander
In this dynamic is a lifetime of friendship. The way in ‘The Body’ Willow responds to the aggressive way Xander is reacting - knowing he needs something to be angry at. Something to attack. Then in ‘Grave’ Xander wilfully being the attacked when Willow needs to direct her rage and pain at something. I don't think there's two other characters in the whole show that understand each other so naturally. It's just so beautiful what they have.
And him basically standing in place of Tara who would do the exact same thing if it was Xander that died instead. Just tell her that she loves her and that if the world is going to end, she’ll be with her anyway because there’s no place else she’d rather be at world’s end than with the love of her life even if that person was the one trying to destroy the world. It works. It really works that it’s Xander.
Thank you for this lovely encapsulation of a lot of thoughts & feelings I have had about these characters
Spike getting a soul was never about becoming evil. That was the writing making viewers think that's what he wanted. For the first time in the series, an action (the bathroom scene) opened Spike's eyes to what he assumed he wasn't. He assumed he could love like a human without a soul. So, what Buffy deserves is a character that could love that way. Spike without a soul could never be trusted, no matter what good he did. Spike (and many viewers) forgets that after the chip and especially around the end of S5. That was the point of the bathroom scene. The writers couldn't show that with any other bad thing Spike did/does/could do as he was around the group when he did all other bad things, chip and no chip. It had to be bathroom scene horrific for the character to realize he needed to change. Even Spike at his worst hated what Angelus and the type of way he did his evil. Spike said so in _Fool for Love_ right to Angelus' face. I respect that Spike realizes this and soullessly makes the decision to get his soul, but even with that decision in mind, he is untrustworthy until the demon gives him the soul. Which is also interesting because even people with souls can be monsters. To me, this all shows soulless people are monsters even when they think they aren't and can never be anything else deep down, even if doing good. But people with souls, who do horrible things, could be good, but sometimes choose not to and/or aren't.
a lot of people despise spike because of that scene.. i think it was the best thing that could have happened to him..making him realize what he was and what he needed to do...an epiphany.. i see a lot of ideology and pc culture thrown at that scene..yes what he did was bad, but in a sense rough sx was the only thing he and buffy had.., being soulles blurred his sense of good and evil..so he didnt identify the state buffy was in..
@@TheNakorius I agree with most of what you said except I would relace "Spike *didn't* identify the state Buffy was in" with "Spike *couldn't understand* the state Buffy was in" as long as he was soulless.
I totally agree ! I had a discussion with my cousin about the bathroom scene. She was mad that it happened, saying it wasn't necessary and that it tarnished Spike's growth. But I told her that her being mad was exactly why it needed to happen ! Because us watchers, or a lot of us at least, forgot what Spike was or was capable of. Because of his love for Buffy and the past seasons, a lot of us kinda forgot what he was capable of. And viewed him as one of the good guys. But he was not ! Not really ! We needed to be reminded of that, as much as he did !
Some people argue that he changed without a soul. And yes, he changed ! But not enough ! Without a soul he was not capable of changing enough to be a good man. Because a souless vampire will always be dangerous. I mean... even while loving Buffy, he did some horrible things ! Like the Buffy bot, trying to bite someone as soon as he thought the chip didn't work anymore, letting Dru killed people and feed one of them to him, treating Harmony like trash, the demon eggs he was keeping in his crypt... And so on. Having a soul doesn't make you a good person ! Faith, Willow, and most of all Warren... are proof that you can choose to do evil things, still. BUT having a soul makes it possible, so you actually can be truly good if you want to be.
A lot of the good deeds Spike did with the chip weren't really good deeds ! It was selfish behavior most of the time, because he had to gain something from it, or because he loved Buffy. A muzzel is not a soul, and that's all he had. Until it didn't work for Buffy anymore and he saw the monster in him. He saw that she was right and couldn't trust him...
@@Sytrylt spike with the chip was like a trained dog..dont bite or it will hurt..so he didnt bite..
@@TheNakorius I mean, I don't despise Spike because of that scene: I despised him even before that! Like Buffy8Fan said: Too many people in the fanbase just forget who he is. And to be honest, it's not like it's not in plain sight with him, he's not really doing much in terms of "good"; everytime it's because he's getting paid or he gets to enjoy violence even if it's against demons, stuff like that.
So, yeah, never forgot who he was personally, so it always bother me how much people were shipping Spike and Buffy even before season 7. Like, what show y'all have been watching?
"From the get-go, they were just the two of them, from childhood."
*the Ghost of Jesse scowls and throws a beer bottle at his computer screen*
Well, we don't really know when Xander and Jesse first met. Could be high school.
But Willow and Xander know each other since they were five, at least. He stole her Barbie back then.
@@migmit is there no dialogue in the pilot about how long they knew each other? I'm having Mandela Effect memories that they said they were childhood friends.
@@ShadowDogProduction I don't remember it, but it's possible my memory is just bad.
@@migmit yeah my memory is TRASH. lol
@@ShadowDogProductionJust rewatched you and you don’t get much info on Jesse’s friendship with them in terms of when they met him
Spike was always going for his soul. They just kept the dialog vague and cryptic to mislead the audience.
This is my favorite season, a roller coaster of emotions and truly unique episodes.
The acting, the direction and the writing is out the chart for a supernatural series with silly costume "monsters" as background.
Just incredible the amount of talent in the whole cast.
This is why Xander has always been my favorite character. He’s just a guy. He’s surrounded by slayers, witches, vengeance demons, vampires, etc. Everyone else on the team is way more powerful than him. He’s just a human. But he fights every day with those supernatural people against the forces of darkness. To me, Xander represents true goodness in that way.
For me, Xander is one of the few things in this show that I feel would actually benefit from a remake. Societal standards of what makes a nice guy have changed so much in the last 25 years that his character gets pretty lost in translation. People watching for the first time today see a lot of toxic masculinity in his behaviors, but he was written to be exceptionally sensitive, empathetic, and supportive (hence him being The Heart). He's supposed to be the epitome of a progressive guy, so it breaks my heart every time I see a reactor hating on him for the first few seasons of the show 😢
@@janeldavis905 No, he wasn't supposed to be the epitome of a progressive guy. He was supposed to be a guy who Learns to be better. Which is what happened. He always had heroic qualities, but he also started out as something of a prick. Which isn't at all surprising when you think about his upbringing. But through his interaction with the Scoobies, he learns to be a better person. I can fully understand not liking Xander much early in the show, but I cannot understand the blind hatred for Xander a lot of people have. Buffy is a show about growing up. Xander grew up.
The yellow crayon speech 💛 Love Xander and Willow. The reaction I had back in the day when the demon says, 'I will return...your soul' 😱😱😍😍
Yes Spike went there always with that intention of getting his soul back. The writers intentionally worded his dialogue so that the viewers would be misled, thereby making it a bigger surprise.
Some people hate on season 7 but I love it! Some really good episodes ahead.
Season 7 is one of my absolute favorites.
I grow to like it more on more. I didn't hate it but it was not my favorite either, but the more I watch it the more I see all the little ties and throwbacks to former seasons and episodes, that I didn't notice before.
I like most of it, except one aspect of it, but in the end the good outweighs the bad.
@@ms_scribblesI feel like the one aspect starts with a K. I hated that for so long, but I’m finally getting past it. Love the rest of the season though. Well, except …
It's the most difficult season for me (season7). I like it more than season 1, but less than season 4 . There's some of the show's best moments, and it's a satisfying conclusion, but it also has my least favorite moments in the entire series, and my hands down least favorite episode in the entire show....I do absolutely love that the season gives a major spotlight on James Marsters and SMG, as they're my two favorite characters ❤❤ (+ probably the best single scene in vampire fiction ever portrayed in the history of television! It happens early in the season, so I don't have to wait long for a reaction 😊!)
Xander always throws himself in the face of danger. This time, it was his best friend - and he survived the encounter without getting beaten up
He actually got some nasty lacerations on his chest, but he took it like a champ
Something I think should be noted about Spike is that throughout his whole trip to Africa, he repeatedly says his goal is to OBTAIN something, not to have something removed. The show keeps his goal vague specifically for this reveal, they WANT you to assume he's there about the chip when he wasn’t. And really, when you stop and think about it, it makes no sense at all that he would. He centers his resolve around Buffy, "giving her what she deserves". Your first thought may jump to revenge, but remember that Spike does not need his chip out to kill Buffy--his chip failing on her was the catalyst for them sleeping together at all. Spike did indeed get exactly as he wished for.
I also love how you immediately figured out the double-meaning to his words; lots of people can't seem to pick up on that and insist--despite future episodes and the writers outright confirming the soul was always his intent--that Spike was there for the chip. He wasn't, he wanted to be the man he used to be. Remember in Fool For Love, when William describes himself as a 'good man'? THAT is what Spike wanted to go back to.
Interesting. I've never picked up on that
Yeah when I first saw this I also thought Spike was going to be the final villain in season 7 and was pleasantly surprised when it was the complete opposite.
Yes Spikes plan was to get the soul all along (as you know I guess since you've finished S7), but the writing intentionally really tricked us into thinking he wanted to go back to his full out bad self... And well, it worked (on me too)😅.
Recently I realized Spike went through Trials for a second chance like Angel did for a second chance for Darla
When Willow took Giles' borrowed power, she got the ability to "feel" the world. And that includes all the pain in the world. So, she decided that she needs to destroy the world to destroy all the pain in it.
He was never talking about the chip. The demon said it was neutering him because of it, but there was never any talk of that was his desire.
"And you want to return to your former self?" "You'd never endure the trials required... To Grant your request." "I want what I came here for. Bitch is gonna see a change." "This is a test. I don't get what I want unless I pass said test."
"So you give me what I want." "Very well. We will return your soul."
Xander really was the perfect person to reach Willow under those circumstances. The dark magic Willow was channeling twisted her emotions, and fed into her fears and anxieties. Willow never actually hated Giles or Buffy. Giles, however, served as a mentor/surrogate parent who was always cautioning Willow not to push too far too fast. Buffy was the unquestioned leader of the group, no matter how powerful Willow became. Though unintentional, both of them were capable of feeding into Willow's pre-existing feelings of inadequacy, which the darkness could twist into full blown resentment and rage. With Xander, however, there was nothing for the darkness to latch onto. Xander was never in charge. He was never more powerful than she was. He never tried to order her around. Hell, the only time he was ever really mean to her was when he was being possessed by a Hyena. Yes, Xander was oblivious to the fact that Willow had a huge crush on him for a while, but they eventually did hook up, and they mutually agreed to stop hooking up...all without hurting their friendship. Put simply, there was no fear or resentment for the darkness to twist when it came to Xander. So, when Xander was there in front of her, Willow couldn't maintain the rage that was fueling her transformation into Dark Willow.
He did intend to get his soul- he tells the demon ‘when I win, I want what I came here for’. He didn’t go to remove anything; he went to GET something.
"When I win, I want what I came here for... for you to get this chip out of my head."
That sentence works fine to me.
@@jp3813Yeah, there's upcoming dialogue which is much clearer that he meant to get his soul.
@jp3813 except that the demon replied "very well" to Spike saying "you'll give me what i came here for", confirming that whatever it is giving him IS what he asked for. It gave him the soul, so he asked for it, case closed.
@@primrosett "Very well, I'll give you the ability to feed on any human again."
Another sentence that works fine to me.
@@jp3813but he didn't give him that
The "whos your supplier?" Scene, the music playing then is the same music played when Tara died. Basically feeling her grief. The ending the world, with the shows metaphors, she was commiting self death.
Buffy deserves a man who wouldn't do THAT, and that's why Spike wanted his soul to give her what she deserves, a good man.
Still, a man he didn't asked for?
@@okiguess8103 no he asked for it, the writers have all confirmed this
@@Dudeamis17 no, they didn't. I googled and there's nothing but if you want to kindly want to provide a source to disprove me, it would be great
@@okiguess8103 ruclips.net/video/FSLpbNkG8GQ/видео.html 24:15
@@okiguess8103 ruclips.net/video/FSLpbNkG8GQ/видео.html at the 24:15 mark
Yes, Spike always wanted his soul back. He never thought about having the chip removed and becoming completely evil again. He still loves Buffy, but after the attack he realized that he couldn't be the one she would love without his soul.
It will be interesting now to see how their relationship develops. Will this sacrifice break down the last walls that divide them and erase the past?
As you so well point out, the Scoobies have faced the worst of the Big Bads this season, their own darkness. They've all grown up a lot since high school and becoming adults also means facing themselves more often than not.
Willow was the one who suffered the most in the end. She, a slave to black magic, has increasingly transformed into something terrible and the death of poor Tara (the purest character in the series) has definitively made her prey to her darkest impulses. It will be hard for Willow to overcome all this, to deal with the thought of having almost killed, with joy at that, her own friends and destroyed the world and who knows if she will ever go back to the way she was before?
Giles pointed out that anyone who loved Willow could stop her in the end, Buffy herself or even himself could, but it was right to give the role of savior to Xander. True, this guy is a real idiot at times, but he still remains the most human of the Gang, for better or for worse, but above all the one who knows Willow best. He was the perfect choice to stop the little witch's rampage and save her from her own evil. A truly wonderful moment.
Regarding Buffy, one cannot help but be moved by her speech to Dawn and by seeing her smile again at her life. She also hit rock bottom this season, hating herself a lot for it. Citing her coming out of the grave is perfect to convey the idea of how Buffy is ideally "resurrected" again, this time as a person, presumably rediscovering the positive attitude towards the future and others that she had lost.
It confirmed my theory from your previous episode reaction video, when I said that because she took all the dark magic from the books, she kinda "lost" her humanity for a while.
Giles was smart enough to use light magic to remind her of that.
In the first episode of ssn 6 Buffy crawled out of the ground feeling confused, terrified and freaking out from awakening in her coffin. For most of the season she felt dead inside and saw no happy prospects for her next life.
At the end of the season, she's crawling out of the ground with new found hope, relief for living through the event of the night and appreciative. It was her new awakening all over again...but on a positive note.
Spike's human self, William was always an empath... that's why Dru was instantly drawn to him when he bumped into them in Fool for Love....
*SIDENOTE: Cecily, the one that rejected him and his poetry, is now Helfrich, Anya's demon friend.
They recognized each other at Buffy's bday party dilemma.*
Dru was also an anomaly because she had a gift before Angel turned her.
Both their demons have perfected their former owners abilities and even discovered different other things they could do.
Dru can hypnotize, like she did to Kendra, and cast illusions like she did with Giles seeing her as Ginny.
Angel was about to tell Buffy in season 1 that the essence of who you were are amplified as a demon vampire.
Your demon knows all about you because who you were is still in your brain like dna.
So, Spike was only loving to Dru, even if they did demented things to each other and called it love...like torture and head games.
Dru learned that from Angel and Darla driving her insane.
She then taught that behavior to Spike. His demon didn't want to be a pathetic laughed at emotional rich boy, so he changed his dialect, his look and became cruel and dangerously adventurous for trouble.
I think just maybe there was a part of Buffy that after knowing him for a while, maybe she picked up on something about him. I think even before the chip, she felt that he could be useful.
Maybe that's why she could never just kill him.
Maybe because of his feelings for her, he couldn't just be his most vile self before the chip.
Angel being with her probably peeked his interest, even though he claims to have hated her so much.
Season 6 is my favorite season. I loved the showdown episode between Buffy and Dark Willow. I need to get that funko pop of her.
It feels extremely ironic that in Season 6 what’s left behind is Buffy’s spirit - her zest for life - because her metaphorical spirit - Willow - brought her back to life.
It’s that kind of irony that’s more poetic than coincidental. Almost as if it’s set up that way.
Buffy losing her spirit or at least being at odds with it. And by the end of the season she’s really fighting for it back. Trying to regain what’s lost and missing within.
And so the moment Buffy crawls out of the ditch her and Dawn fall in being the same moment Willow comes back from the brink of losing her humanity…
It’s all ironically poetic. And I don’t know how to feel about it other than “jesus this show has great writing”. I may have to do a whole rewatch and focus my attention completely on Buffy’s metaphorical parts and that may mean that I will have to combine the concept of my favourite episode in the whole show and one of my least favourite episodes in the show.
Not sure I’m ready for that at all. But I may have to be. ‘Normal Again’ is an unpleasant experience for me but I may be able to appreciate it if I watch it through what ‘Restless’ did with Buffy’s metaphorical parts. There’s a reason why it’s an episode in Season 6 after all. I just have to unpack the metaphorical meaning. And so I will have to rewatch it a good few times over. I don’t like retcon art/entertainment. I really don’t. But I do acknowledge that there’s a reason for it.
21 years and I never put that together about Willow and Buffy. Great analysis 👏🏻
@@DanY-gx2dv Thank you.
Here’s another one.
Spike and Dark Willow never meet. Never interact. It’s partially because Spike tries to avoid Willow all season because he can see the dark path she’s going down and it reminds him too much of himself and he doesn’t want to face the mirror. He is running away from his reflection by avoiding her. He can see her just as clearly.
But there is major parallels between Spike and Willow this season that they’re basically the same fucking character in that the very moment Spike disappears Dark Willow emerges and also that the moment Spike gets his soul loudly, abruptly forced into him, Dark Willow is quietly, slowly sedated.
It does matter that he went to get his soul back as it is a redemption arc - even as a soulless monster he still wants to be better
The question then becomes what differentiates Spike from other vampires and for me it is shown repeatedly that some vampires retain elements of their prior personality (Dru being mad, the bookish vampire killed by the judge in S2) and Spike retains the ability to show affection (which the judge picks up on)
"Look what she's reduced you to."
"It's this bloody chip!"
As in "Buffy didn't reduce me, this chip did that."
6:52: "It wasn't his place to say!" yeah, so true! thanks for this statement! 10:31 that reaction! omg, i felt that so much! 17:21 i didn't notice that before, nice! thanks!
Spike's quest was the second biggest misdirection of the entire series... next to Joyce's 'recovery'. The interaction he has with the guardian sounds like he was doing one thing, but going back as you did it becomes apparent the conversation dodges around his true intentions.
There were talks about a spinoff with Giles. Whedon pitched the idea of a show titled "Ripper" to BBC; I think the only thing known about that proposed show was that it would feature Giles' two eternally youthful aunts - that would be played by ASH's daughters. But BBC dragged their feet, and later it became evident they were planning to do their own supernatural show about a certain alien doctor, and didn't want competition. So, it fell through.
Loved your Season 6 reactions; can't wait for Season 7!
Not just Giles' emotions. Taking the power he held connected her to *literally* everyone. She was experiencing all the emotions of all the people on Earth, all at once, in realtime. All that grief and pain experienced by a single soul, every moment... ending it all becomes the most rational choice. I wonder if Dark Willow thought she could survive ending the world...
the council found xander useful.well, not their first mistake!and the idea of a series about giles is just great!especially if it includes his crazy youth.
Hey all, new "Buffyverse" audiobook is out, cowritten by Amber Benson. Voice actors are: Amber Benson, Charisma Carpenter, James Charles Leary, Emma Caulfield Ford, Juno Dawson, Laya DeLeon Hayes, Anthony Head, Juliet Landau, James Marsters, Danny Strong.
Xander saves the world for the 3rd time this season.
First time is when he gives Buffy CPR in season 1 so she can kill the Master.
Second time is in the Zeppo when he stops the school being blown up while the others are fighting the Hellmouth demon, thus saving the other Scoobies so they can close the Hellmouth again.
And then here, for the third time, by just being the best version of himself and being there for Willow when she needed someone to let her get the grief out.
It was a fake out with Spike he always wanted the soul it was meant to be vague. I believe I read that the actor wasn't even given the ending to that scene just his lines.
That bathroom scene was a wake up call for spike him finally realising despite the good he has done he is still soulless I mean honestly he was still better then a lot of other soulless vampires say like angelus spike mentioned to Angel and angelus that he absolutely despised how angelus killed and from spike that’s a lot however he is still dangerous. This scene is because spike couldn’t understand the state buffy was in that moment because all he knew was that they had a lot of rough sex to the point of destroying an entire place he was confused as that was their relationship buffy wasn’t completely innocent in that either for treating him the way she did but she wasn’t entirely to blame both of them were. This made spike finally realised he wanted to be better not just for buffy but for himself to not be a monster anymore.
And I personally can't buy it. But that's because I think souls were never really well conceived in the Buffyverse -- the consequences of not having one were strange and sometimes random. So you can do good even without a soul? And it's not just selfishness or random results, but you actually WANT to do good things without a soul? How can that be? So it feels then like not having a soul is more like being addicted to some drug -- you're still the person you are, but your addiction makes you worse than you otherwise would be. And yet soul vs. no-soul is treated like something so incredibly important in the Buffyverse... Buffy can easily kill vampires because their soulless and thus have no internal complexity, no "real moral sentience", nothing -- they're just empty pits of darkness inside, right? But then someone like Spike comes along, and several other vampires even along the various seasons of Buffy, and you get the feeling it's not that simple.
I get the feeling Joss Whedon changed his mind gradually throughout the series, maybe because vampires that were just empty pits of darkness would soon be uninteresting. He needed an interesting vampire, and he got Angel -- in love with a Slayer. But how can that be? Oh, he got his soul back! So now he's good. But we go through Angel season 2 to see that even with his soul he could do bad things (like not saving the people in the hotel when the demon of despair took hold of them)... and Spike in BTVS shows vampires without souls can do good things, even WANT to do good things, despite being soulless... So I see this as the characters of Angel and Spike becoming interesting (= more human), and so Joss scratches his head and thinks of ways to somehow make the importance of a soul fit into all that.
"I will always be pissed" (that they killed Tara)
Welcome to the club
People tend to look at the point where the show was making obvious connections between the use of magic and drug use as the beginning of this storyline, but I personally believe this particular seed was planted much earlier. At the end of season 2 when Willow says she wants to cast the spell to return Angel's soul, Giles warns her that messing with magics that dark and dangerous can open up a door that she might not be able to close. Later, when Willow is casting the spell, she seems to lose control and pretty much be taken over until the spell is completed. Oz even asks, "Is that good?". I really think Whedon had this (or something like it) in mind all the way back then.
Thanks for the reaction, Miss Sophie. I now have a fresh look at Giles leaving. As he points out, sometimes the most mature thing to do is ask for help when you need it. And had Buffy thought about why she needed Giles to stay, and what he should help her out with, she might have convinced him. But she was relying on him in the child-like way, not an adult way. And he was sure she grow and do better. Except here he's reconsidering, that maybe Buffy really wasn't yet ready. And the conundrum I'm left with: Was Giles correct in leaving? Because if he was wrong, that means that Buffy was too immature, or perhaps too weak, to be pushed out of the nest on her own. And I don't like feeling that way about Buffy.
You missed the most important Spike quote! Along with “get what she deserves,” Spike said the following, earlier in the trials:
6:58 - “I’ll take anything you can throw at me, as long as I get to *take care of* the Slayer. She’ll get what’s coming to her.”
Spike was so in love with Buffy, he realized that the sacrifice of reclaiming his soul was the only way to be worthy (and have a chance) with her, especially after the bathroom scene.
The chip was pure misdirection. It’s brilliant because it’s even in character; Spike says it defensively when he feels emasculated because he’s being accused of being a warrior has-been. What he really wanted was to be a caregiver, like he tried to be with Dawn, protecting Buffy from all harm, including from the demon inside himself.
When Buffy first died, Kendra was activated as the next Slayer. It was after Kendra died, that Faith became the next Slayer.
She can feel everyone's suffering in the world so wants to end it to end the suffering.
Great reaction!! Lookin forward for next season and of course your season 6 wrap up :)
Buffy deserves the lover with soul. The Spike with the soul.
The only thing I didn't like about this finale is the omnious way Spike is always talking about "giving the Buffy what she deserves" in an angry voice. It could have been portrayed better and still kept the twist ending.
You were totally right Sophie when you asked "He can already hurt her, what else does he want?" When you go back and rewatch the scene where Spike is entering the cave and looks around, you can see a drawing on the wall of the demon returning the soul to a person - so yes, that is what he came here for all along! He could already hurt Buffy, he didn't need his chip removed for that and he'd have to go to a brain surgeon for that anyway. He needed something magical, he wanted his soul back.
All season he has gone back and forth. "I'm free if that BITCH DIES, I'd better help her out....."
I do like the way his voice turns from that into something else, but you're right, it could've been more subtle. It keeps that ambiguity going, though.
He couldn't hurt her in the way that people thought he meant, by hurting the people she loves.
He's the epitome of an incel, his language was in character. They wrote it that way for the sake of tricking the audience once he has his soul he doesn't care about redemption anyway and gaslights Buffy.
eh, that sounds more like Angelus
I’m glad spike got his soul back unlike angel spike wanted his soul back
In this episode something that gets lost in the chaos is Anya is really struggling with what’s happening to her friends.
Tara is dead, she thinks Giles is dying and that Willow will end up dead.
Anya doesn’t know what to do and feels helpless.
Spike, the first vampire who fights for his soul. This sets him apart from Angel, whose soul was forced back into his body not only once but twice.
Yes, the slayer line passes on through Faith. Writers confirmed that. But realize that the characters in the show don't really know how the whole thing works. What they think about the Slayer line and Buffy dying again, well they could be wrong. Having 2 Slayers at all is all new territory. No one in the universe can really know for sure.
But I was thinking: since Buffys heart stopped beating in the hospital, she was technically dead. Just as dead as she was when she drowned in S1. But why didn't they think that time would count? And why did no one bother to check where the newly activated Slayer was in S6 if they all thought that Buffys dying would activate one?
@@evatesche I don't know that they'd bother to check up on a newly activated Slayer from the end of S5, in S6, as the council never really kept them in the loop of such things, with Kendra and then Faith, and them not really caring about the council either/ being disconnected from them. BUT it is odd that they never mentioned it, if they seemed to think a new Slayer would be activated with Buffy's death, or even if they just thought it MIGHT even.
Willow finally breaking down and crying gets me every time 😭
He wanted his soul the whole time, they were just carefully misdirecting with his wording.
Spike was totally and utterly in love with Buffy. Trying to rape her, took so much from him, that he decided to get his soul back for her.
Spike went in search of redemption imho
Xander and Willow define the word "friendship".
I never quite understood why so many people (and reactors) think that Spike would go all the way to the other side of the world, to track down a creature that was almost impossible to track down, to then endure trials of torture, pain, and suffering, all so he could have a piece of metal removed from his skull? Do you not think it would have been a hell of a lot easier to threaten a surgeon and do it much quicker and much simpler?
But great reaction nonetheless.
Also, a carpenter saves the world with unconditional love and forgiveness. I feel like I've heard that somewhere before.
Exactly. It would have made much more sense for him to track down a super good surgeon or the leftovers of the Initiative instead.
He did try threatening a surgeon, who worked for the organization that put the chip there in the first place. That surgeon said he couldn't do it, and then faked it to try and save himself. ("Out of my mind")
I guess cause a surgeon wasn't able to do it, but yeah
Also, and it's something I just realized: Couldn't he just destroy the chip with a strong-enough magnet? Electronics like that are really sensible to a magnetic field after all!
Then again, I just realized it could be a solution right now, decades later! So maybe he just didn't think of it either! :p
@@gehrehmee The surgeon could easily have done it. He didn't because he was stalling for time, hoping someone would save him, and because he knew as soon as he did, he was dead.
That's why love is so powerful, it saved the day!
Much love from germany ❤❤❤
A superb opening scene with Giles and Willow having a 'power struggle' Willow repeats the line he said to her earlier in S6 when he referred to her as a 'rank arrogant amateur' great transition in her face and voice when she says 'buckle up Rupert cos I've turned pro'. When Buffy tells Giles all that has happened since he was away we get comic relief as Giles bursts out laughing. When Giles says to Buffy Willow has killed a human being and she has to live with that, we see Willow again appear with no feelings or emotion. Totally cold when Xander says to Dawn about Spike 'if he wasn't trying to rape your sister' Good point is the improvement of the special effects and sets etc. This is of course was helped greatly by switching to UPN as S6 and S7 had massive increases in budget. Willow thinks she now taken Giles power after invading his body, but good perception here in that what Giles has given her is not absolute power but some kind of poisoned magic. A great conversation with Dawn and Buffy in the cave where she asks Buffy about the attempted rape. A brilliant final scene where Xander uses the power of love to overcome Willow's power as he can see she is weakening. Brendon and Hannigan really knock it out of the park here. Even though Xander has has no super powers he once again saves the day as he did in Prophecy Girl S1 where he saves Buffy's life, and The Zeppo on S3 where he saves them all unbeknown to them. He doesn't get the credit he deserves sometimes. With all this going on we forget about Spike, but the ending scene is probably the most important scene for the arc of the Series, great writing again. Great direction too by James A Contner, who also directed some of the very best episodes of BTVS and Angel, and one the best episodes of the The X-Files too in 'Soft Light'.
2:02 there were plans of a Ripper series filmed in England for the BBC. Joss wrote the pilot and Jane Espenson began to write storylines. The idea was alive even many years ago.
So I think that Spike knew he had to trick his demon and his soulless self in order to get his soul back, but it was his soul that was what he wanted all along. He was being vague not just for the audience. Demons don't like souls. Angelus said a soul was a pesky thing that makes beings pathetic and disgustingly weak. It limits the demon's power and traps them in the body of a being who truly understands good from evil.
According to Joss, the big bad of the season was life.
It’s what he wanted
Once again, with zero powers, Xander saved the world.
"Make me what I was so Buffy can get what she deserves" - He elaborates on this in 7x02
The demon was winding him up so he got angry about the chip. It wasn't related to why he was there.
I remember when he asked to become his former self thinking he wanted to be made human again because that would be a good twist. My husband thought he wanted the chip out so he could be evil. There was a huge debate on the message boards about it. Almost no one thought he was going to get his soul back, though, because that was an Angel thing, so it was a massive shock. I'm still a little bummed after all these years he wasn't turned human, because can you imagine Spike having to adjust to being a human being again?
- what would an underground demon at the far side of the world know about chips? Nothing. What would an underground demon on the far side of the world know about souls? AHA!
great reaction as always!
Joss wrote the yellow crayon speech. However thats the first time he didnt write and direct the season finale. He was busy with 2h Firefly pilot. I'm not sure why Marti, the day to day showrunner that season, didnt do it (number 3, David Fury, wrote it) but she was ready for a maternity leave so maybe she can't do it.
All the prophecies are about a vampire with a soul. He's always been jealous of Angel. He wants his soul back to be what Buffy needs, to win her love.
Don't worry about almost the end. Buffy is just as good every time I've rewatched it.
Finally Willow's grief breaks through her rage.
I didn't catch that parallel to Buffy clawing her way out of the grave. Very insightful.
And, yeah, as others have mentioned the things about the chip were the writers being coy. As you noted, he doesn't need to have the chip removed to hurt Buffy. I can't say more than that without spoiling later stories in the Buffyverse.
An irony is Spike often refers to himself as "the big bad" but he was never the big bad of a season. In Season 2, Angelous took that role. He only had a brief appearance in Season 3. In 4 he got "neutered" before he could do anything and from there on he was "just Spike".
Am I the only one who immediately knew Spike was going there to get his soul back? I know the writers purposely made the dialogue vague to trick the viewers into thinking he was going there to get his chip removed, but the idea that he was getting the chip removed never made sense to me for a number of reasons:
1. A doctor could remove the chip, so why would Spike go visit a mystical shaman and endure grueling trials for something that a doctor could perform?
2. We've seen throughout the entire season that Spike can still hurt Buffy even with the chip, so what would be the purpose of removing the chip?
3. Everything Spike has done since falling in love with Buffy has been to endear himself to her. His #1 motive in the past two seasons is to please Buffy. Spike getting a soul is consistent with his character's motive and makes sense. Spike getting the chip removed completely goes against his character's motive and throws away two years of character development.
4. In general, the writing in Buffy the Vampire Slayer is always moving forward, never moving in reverse. BTVS is not the type of show that repeats storylines. Spike getting a soul takes things in new and interesting directions. Spike removing the chip and becoming a villain again would've been a repeat of what we had already seen in the earlier seasons.
For me, the possibility that he was going there to remove his chip didn't even pop into my head, and I was actually surprised to learn a lot of fans thought that's what he was there for.
Waiting for the Next one!! 🤩
if you wanted a chip removed, why would you go to a demon to do it? the entire plot only makes sense if it's about his soul.
The fact that Willow murdered somebody in the previous episode does get kind of glossed over, but it's not like you could have a season with her in prison doing 30 years.
I mean the person she killed was heavily implied to be a paedophile with Clem's comment saying 'rack likes little girls "so it wasn't like she murdered a good person
I'm also surprised it took u as long as it did to figure the empathy from willow taking Giles power. I kinda wish folks didn't have the subtitles on cuz they would be more surprised at the soul part but still great reaction
He wants to return to the man he was, or at least that part of him that was a good man. He remembers who he was. He wants to have his soul returned.
characters were been through a lot this season, it is my favourite for characters development they reach their climax. Tara's death is horrible but you can rewatch the musical and the lyrics, a lot of foreshadowing this season. Except for Willow's, because her fate was huge this season and important for the last episodes. I love all the seasons, season 5 is brillant and the nest arc and big bad, but i love so much season 6 for characters storylines and season 3 for the quality and episodes.
Thus ends the season with no censoring authority. Buffy season 7 returns to the biggest bad format and well, more would be telling, no spoilers!
I know everyone thinks Spike went to get his soul back...I don't think so. I think he honestly went so he could re-claim being the big bad. That he could forget about Buffy and when he said give her what she deserved he meant he could finally be over her, finally kill her. He went to a Demon. The Demon is (as most are) a trickster. So he gave Spike what he asked for, with a twist. Like a Genie he chose how to interpret what Spike asked and give him what he actually asked for... the way a "wish" is asked determines how it can be given.
Joss Whedon never does Occam’s razor plots if he has the option of a twist.
Yes he wanted his soul back. It was a midirect to throw the audience off
19:30 It's called misdirection
Just a little correction... When Buffy died the next Slayer called was Kendra. Then Kendra died and Faith was called.
I think that this was assumed in the monologue. Also, she mentioned that if Buffy dies, there won’t necessarily be another slayer, because there is faith, acknowledging that there was a second slayer chosen when Buffy first died.
2:03 They were actually going to make a Ripper spinoff, maybe on the BBC. It went into development. But it just didn’t happen. I would have watched the shit out of that.
My own take on the Willow/Giles powers is that the difference is in the nature of the magic itself. Willow is fuelled by anger, rage and grief. She turns to the darkest of the world's magic to power her quest for revenge. The coven that leant Giles their powers is, I suspect, more Wiccan. Wiccan theology is largely focused around nature and balance. Communing with nature, healing and care etc. A 'lighter,' more altruistic form of magic connected to the world at large. As Giles says, it tapped into the last spark of humanity Willow had which allowed Xander the chance to offer love and support despite her actions. And to get a chance to tap into that spark, bringing her back from her rage and allowing her grief over Tara to come forward.
Woman, when was the last time you watched Dimash? 🤔
It has been so long since I watched Buffy. I didn't think I'd cry today.
I love Giles so much. I love evil Willow too, it's a conflict. 😆
03:12 - 03:24 *YES.* 😤💢 06:35 - 06:38 Oh. Seriously?😒YOU ask that?!?!💢 06:45 - 06:52 *YES!!!!!!!>Ow< ❤ This show has trained us to expect the worse deaths for the most unexpected characters."Game of Thrones"WHO???
14:32 - 15:48 I've found this scene on internet and kinda learned it by heart way before I watched the episode in Italian.🥺😭❤💙Welcome back,Willow,I've missed you SO MUCH!❣
20:58 - 21:07 As I already said...NO!WHY would he go to a human doctor he can't even threat?!?We already saw that doesn't work! IT MAKES SENSE to go to a demon to have the chip _magically_ removed instead of _surgically_ removed!! 21:18 - 21:31 *IF ONLY!!!!!!!* I was *_HOIPING_* they were gonna do that!!!!!!!
There were talks about a Ripper series with a young Giles but it never happened.
Honestly in my head Giles used to be John Constantine