HSwMS Oscar II - Guide 354
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- Опубликовано: 2 ноя 2024
- The Oscar II, a coastal defence ship of the Swedish Navy, is today's subject.
Read more about the ship here:
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Pinned post for Q&A :)
Do you think there will ever be replica warships of ww1/2 era ships, such as how replicas of age of sail ships have been made?
When did the Japanese start adding Radar to their capitol ships and which Japanese ship was the first to given Radar?
I was going through some illustrations demonstrating if a different nation had built a particular type of battleship (an American Littorio and Bismarck, British Bismarck and Richelieu, Japanese Iowa, ect) and it got me thinking, amoung the WW2 battleships, if the battleships of WW2 had been built by their opposing team (using that factions equipment and logistics) would they have preformed better?
@@themanformerlyknownascomme777
Frankly, none of them would have done well enough to make sense even if they were built by an opposing navy, since every major WWII navy failed to get sufficient return on investment out of their new battleships. The problem is that there were really only two ways to use battleships in WWII; use them as pointlessly gigantic and expensive supporting units akin to destroyers, or leave them in port and not use them at all. Neither option justifies building a strategic asset like a battleship.
American Littorio/American Bismarck ends up the same way as the historical Iowas: as the world’s most gigantic and expensive CLAAs. Japanese Iowas end up the same way as the Yamatos or as the historical Iowas (see above). American Yamato would also obviously still end up as a failure in the vein of any non-Washington American fast battleship.
Dera Drach, how do the Bolivian navy communicate during night actions?
Do they use morse code or do they just talk about themselves for hours?
Mildly surprising she wasn't preserved, considering her status at the end of her life
Spoilers
She should have preserved. She is a near unique example of a ship from that time. sm
I believe the Swedish economy in the 70's was either entering or in the doldrums.
The cold war was very real at the time she was scraped. Sweden was busy scraping everything larger than corvetts
due to the navy(and army) loosing the budget war in favor of the airforce.
The ships put into museum state during the era was modern enough to teoreticaly be pulled back into service(my conclusion).
This acctually happend with the RBS-15 trucks after Russia did the funnie in 2014.
Belive some of her secondary turrets even ended up being used in land fortifications towards the Finnish border.
Some guns was shiped to fortifications in North Sweden. The hull was use as a damage controll traning ship, and was "used up"
My brother in law, a Swede, served in the Swedish Navy during the Cold War. All of these videos on the Swedish navy are giving me an appreciation of his country's naval history.
The Swedish navy is filled with fascinating history be it Modern or almost Medieval, I reccomend you read up on the coastal artillery for abit of modern history and maybe The Kronan which was a monster of its time with a demise worthy of Michael Bay.
Best regards.
@@danielkarlsson9326 Thanks for the recommendations. I appreciate it. My naval book list has grown quite a bit since I found the channel.
Have a look at the Mars.
sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_(1563)
The Swedish and Danish navies were a match for any navy in those decades.
I have noted the Swedes are as good as we (UK) at failing to see the value of preservation and scrapping everything so later generations cant enjoy them. This ship deserved to be saved as a museum given her longevity.
Well sorry but as being French, we are better than you as if I am right we do not have a single ship preserved 😞
@@khaelamensha3624you do have some lovely replicas, though.
Cannot aford tos save the upperclas toys
Or just as unwillig to spend money on preserving scrap metal
@@rictusmetallicusSweden navy have Always been bad since in the viking age.
"After a lot of talk, the middle path was chosen".
Swedish history for the last 200 years xD
lol! Very astute though.
Yes the expression "lagom" in Swedish "in-between/the middle ground".
Well said
Oscar II was the Flagship of the Stockholm Squadron the local defence squadron for Stockholm during WW2.
The other squadrons in southern and western Sweden had Äran class coastal defence ships as flagships.
These squadrons usually comprised older destroyers and submarines but also auxiliary cruisers.
We have a model of her at the naval museum i work at. Probably my favourite ship, followed closely by the armoured cruiser fylgia
Kanske kommer förbi någon gång nu i höst, ska skriva c-uppsats om flottan under 1800-talet (planerat tema iaf). Passar på o fråga on du vet nåt bra ställe o hitta källor! Tack på förhand!!
@@dynamo8846 vi har ett bibliotek med både äldre och nyare böcker om flottan här på marinmuseet, så det finns säkert något här du kan använda
My Swedish uncle Gus would have loved the attention you are giving the Swedish navy. Thanks!
Is it somewhat odd that during the just pre-WW2 update, she was not given the most famous of Swedish guns, the 40mm Bofors anti-aircraft canons?
I don't think anyone could predict the the importance of the aircraft threat, sure it was well understood that aircraft would become an increasing danger but the sheer magnitude was beyond most people, nor was there really a requirement to combat such a threat at that point in time.
I know it's a completely different system but when Drach mentioned the 8.3" battery an image sprung to mind of an upscaled 40mm AA gun complete with a clip on the top
@@LazyLifeIFreak I don't think that is it. They were well aware of the threat of aircraft at that point. More likely it was just a lack of space. The 40mm guns do take up a fair bit of it to install as AA and it was not a very big ship.
She was modernized BEFORE WW2, and the Swedish navy did not have a large amount of money for the modernized. The "new" fire controll was inherited from Sverige class pansarskepp, when they got a new fire controll. The "new" 57mm AA gun vas the old 57mm anti-torpedo-boat guns, rebuild to be use in a AA roll. Oscar II was a part of the Sjökrigsskoleavdelningen "Naval Academy Department" and not a front line unit.
@@tomasdawe9379 No the gun was old old 57mm anti-torpedo-boat gun, that was rebuild to be used as a AA gun. It was NOT a fully automatic weapon. After WW2 Bofors make a new 57mm gun that is a "upscaled" 40mm gun, that is fully automatic.
Miss the old opening but understand why we dont have it. But still miss it.
Strange the Swedes did not use the 40mm Bofors in the upgrade given how they were the AA of choice by the US and UK for many of their upgrades during WWII.
Tbf it was the go to AA choice here in Sweden as well for later upgrades so this might just be one of those strange outliers.
It is likely that it was simply a question of space and what would be practical on the ship.
Oscar II (O2 in sailors lingua) was a remain of the pre-dreadnought era and after1922 when the Sverige-class came into service they where so much more potent plattform to build on (as they was in nearly constant refit) so very little priority was given to upgrades of O-II
Handsome ship. Shame she could not have been preserved.
I'm glad you're taking a look at more Swedish ships, very cool!
Definitely the best of the new intro-musics. It got such a good thematic resonance.
As always awsome clip. As a swede its so nice to se our old ships again.
Oh damn, it's a 5 Minute Guide that ACTUALLY came in at 5min (subtracting the intro). Nice!
Awesome vid as always enjoy the content. Love seeing a ship named after my great great great grandfather King Oscar II who had a bad habit with sleeping with staff of the royal household.
Like the intro music!
Interesting guide. I remember this ship from my Hearts of Iron II games when playing Sweden, but didn't know much about it.
A shame she wasn't preserved, she could have been a interesting museum ship
@therake8897 the issue would have been the superstructure and internal fittings/machinery. From what I gather, her hull was essentially gutted. They'd have had to create a facsimile of everything, right down to the galley equipment.
Few countries have the money to spare, sadly. The budgets tend to prioritize new military equipment over preserving museum pieces.
Thanks Drach.
Good photo survey.
Being a damage control training hulk almost guarantees long survival. For example the German Navy still uses the old Frigate Köln from the 1960s as a damage control training hulk, which herself replacing a british WW2 Black Swan class sloop (Scharnhorst ex HMS Mermaid) which had been used for the purpose until then.
You should give Chapman's sailing ships a good look?
Thanks Drach
Drach, have you considered using the Captain Pugwash theme?
The 25mm AA gun used on the Oscar II is a lightened 40mm Bofors as the Swedish navy initially decided the 40mm Bofors was too heavy.
Hence it looks very much like a 40mm Bofors gun.
Thanks!
You touched only briefly on it, but there was actually a little naval race between Norway and Sweden before the actual union split in 1905.
The Swedes had the strongest/biggest navy, so its unlikely that the Norwegian would have won a naval campaign, *had* the break-up of the union turned hostile.
Is this something you will talk about in your videos? I suspect that there are few sources in English on this.
The Swedish navy, planed to sail up to Oslo in a show of strength (intimidate Norway to submission) alternative assult Oslo with gun blazing. But a combination that UK did suport Norwegian independence (and was partly the master mind behind the independence) and Norway was piss-poor, I realy mean piss-poor, there was no economic motivation to keep Norway, and Sweden have lost its political will to make war of conquest.
It all come down to the poltical will of Sweden to keep Norway down. Sweden did have a bigger army, bigger fleet, bigger economy etc. But the suport for a war agenst Norway was very low.
Fun fact, Sweden did retained the right to "take back" Norway after 100 year... sadly we did not do so... now then Norway is filthy rich ; )
@@kirgan1000 "Fun fact, Sweden did retained the right to "take back" Norway after 100 year... sadly we did not do so... "
Huh? Could you expand on this?
I know that Sweden turned the Volvo-deal in 1978, so the Swede had their chance to oil riches later. Thankfully, they declined ;)
@@fhlostonparaphrase It was part of the independence deal, Norway have to prove they could exist as a country of its own, and Sweden did have the right to "take back" Norway if Norway couldn't handle itself as a country during the next hundred years.
The declain of the Volvo deal must be one of the bigest mistake in history..... but not bigger then trying to keep Norway with military might. I also wounder if Sweden could have played their cards better, then pick a poltical symbolic fight about the the design of Norway's cvilian/merchant flag.
@@kirgan1000 Not trying to be difficult here, but I can find no reference to such a clause. The border forts where the biggest hurdle, and the referendum/choice of monarch.
Any future disputes was to be settled by International Court of Arbitration.
I've always been baffled that Bernadotte/Sweden gave Norway the amount of concessions that they actually got in 1814.
@@fhlostonparaphrase I can find the source, so my memory might be wrong, but I remember it was a thing in 2005.
It called smart policy, not ther was no (serious) resistence or rebellion in Norway, untill Sweden did drop it, by taking a fight about the Norway cvilian/merchant flag. If Russia attacked, Bernadotte/Sweden count on the loyalty of the Norway.
Wounder what happen if the union did held to 1914, and it become us agenst a dangerus world.
Tack så mycket!
More coastal battleship, wonderfull!
She was used for firefighting training
Any chance you could put together the Swedish Navy videos to a playlist on the channel? :)
Could you please put all of your guides into one playlist the only other person on youtube who has stopped at like 200
I want a model of this badly since name after my many greats grandfather King Oscar II
Third weekend on a Swedish navy vesse...
Sweden's pride, other than Gustavus Adolphus.
drac I love your videos I've wanted to ask you this question for a long time, I'm very interested in the G3 class battlecruisers and N3 class battleships what is the absolute best source to delve into the history and technical description of these 2 designs?
Another fantastic video. How about the story of HMS CONOPUS?
The new music sounds like Gilligan's Island.
Love intro music
That was neat
I think we get IJN Yubari next :P
Once again I feel utter frustration over the antiquarian side of things. Why was she not preserved? She went to the breakers the year I was born. Why on Earth was there no one around with enough foresight to see that she deserved to be preserved? Work as a museums teached and my university studies gives me an idea as too why. Back then, most antiquarians would not have considered her "old" enough to be interesting or worth anything. The Navy was too pre-occupied with the Cold War and the internal thug of War for resources with the Air Force. The focus was on getting new stuff into the field. Old stuff was something a few older officers may care about but not having the funds to actually do anything big. It is suprising that we managed to preserve HMS Småland.
By the way. In Sweden we just write HMS with stands for Hans Majestäts Skepp. If another navy takes offence they are welcome to object. The swedish navy have some history of actually standing up against the Royal Navy on occasion. The most well-known episode is the battle at Orford Ness in 1704. HMS Öland, a swedish ship of the line commanded by Gustav von Psilander, refused to neither lower topsail or lower flag in reverense to the Royal Navy when she and the convoy she escorted encountered 8 british ship of the line and one frigate. Swedish ships had been given specific instructions from king Charles XII to never lower flag or sail for anyone. The british fired to warning shots and Öland sent a longboat with a messenger to the british flagship. Some claim that the following conversation to place between the swedish messenger löjtnant Schmidt and the british captain Thomas Butler.
- Sen I intet Drottningens av England flagg?
- Jo, vi se den väl, men sen I icke Konungens av Sverige flagg?
- Jo, men varför avläggen I intet eder skyldighet till drottningen av England?
- Vad för skyldighet skall konungen av Sverige göra drottningen av England?
- I måste stryka edra märssegel.
- Därtill haver min kommendör inga order, ej heller lär han stryka.
- Well, så skall jag lära eder det nu strax!
Butler: Do you not see the Colours of the Queen of England?
Schmidt: Yes, we see them well, but do you not see the Colours of the King of Sweden?
Butler: Yes, but why do you not do your duty towards the Queen of England?
Schmidt: What duty does the the King of Sweden have to the Queen of England?
Butler: You have to lower your topsails.
Schmidt: My commander have no orders to do so, neither will he do it.
Butler: Well, then I will have to teach you how!
In the eyes of the swedes, lowering topsail was the same as lower your colours which meant you surrendered. Well, in those days of the late Swedish Empire, it was not something you did. So what ensued was an 4 hour long battle with Öland basically becoming a floating wreck but managing to give back as good as she got. Psilander would not surrender. However, he then came up with the idea of tying up the swedish ensign in such a way that it could not fly freely, which was called tying it on Schau in swedish. It signalled the ship was in distress and gave the british ships a valid reason to stop firing and instead come to the aid of the Öland. This saved the face of both sides.
Psilander was imprisoned but Charles XII got news and managed to get both Psilander and his crew free so they could return to Sweden were Psilander became something of a hero.
When the Royal Navy temporarily confiscated 4 destroyers Sweden had purchased from Italy during World War Two, one of the ships had been re-named HMS Psilander. Many of the swedish officers actually wanted to fight but calmer heads prevailed. In the end, the ships were released after a while and could finish the journey.
✌️✌️
Navies like the KM, RN and the USN did not dare to fight these mighty warships, thus keeping Sweden out of the war.
The 800th like was mine 🎉
Is it a trick of light, or why does the flag in some of the pictures appear to be, darker cross on light background, much like the Finnish flag? 4:10, for example, and 0:50.
It is because of orthochromatic film. Blue becomes light and yellow/red turns dark or black.
Early black-and-white film were orthochromatic and extra sensitive to blue and green (and extra insensitive to red), polychromatic (still) film was introduced by Kodak in 1913 but it was expensive and hard to process, so it took more than a decade for it to become the standard for motion pictures.
Oscar II collected the body of Prince Gustaf Adolf in Copenagen in 1947 after his death in a KLM DC3 crash.
He was the current Swedish King´s father.
Okay, am I the only one who hears the theme song from “Gilligan’s Isle” when this new theme song plays?
Still miss the old intro😢
Who knew the Swedes had such a modern navy?! As someone who identifies more with my Norwegian heritage, I almost feel bad we held up the construction of this ship for a few years. I'm also so fascinated to find out there is more beyond the US. UK, French, German, and Japanese navies in the early 20th century. Thank you Drach for another great synopsis. Also, the new intro music is growing on me.
Its a consequence of the Swedish army defeat on land agenst the Russian army, and the Swedish army.... yes army, archipelago gun rowing boats anilate the Russians ship of the line in the archipelago. So the Swedish navy has since been archipelago fixed. You cant invade Sweden if you cant land your troops, and most major ports in the baltic sea is in a archipelago.
Sweden did let Norway be independent, but did have a clause that allow Sweden to "take back" Norway after 100 year.....
@4:50 what on earth is an "8mm anti-aircraft weapon"?
Its the Kulspruta m/36 "bullet sprayer model (19)36" a Swedish made version of the Browning M1917 in a AA mount.
And the Oscar goes to Sweden
If nothing else the Swedes certainly got their moneys worth with these ships considering almost all the other ships built at the same time were long gone by 1930.
These ships where basically in between a light and a heavy cruiser in terms of armament. I doubt they would be very effective in combat.
Not the year the ship was built. Oscar II will maul any cruiser that can "fit" in the archipelago.
@@kirgan1000 i highly doubt that.
@@John_Doe657 I challange you to find a ship from that time, that have 5,5m or less draft that can defeat Oscar II.
Hey, this 5-minute guide is exactly 5 minutes! (Not including the groovy intro.)
Okay, I've given it some time, but I don't care for the new intro music. There, I got that out, carry on.
Dis she ever have a combat engagement at Sea ?
I like the 1990s Lucasarts game music at the start! Was expecting to see Guybrush Threepwood
Follow up on my visit to SS JOHN W. BROWN- stand in front of an operating triple expansion steam engine in your lifetime, if you can !!
🚬😎👍
like the new music but...
Drach I have a confession to make. During your new intro just now, I tried to push the "skip ad" button. Then i realized what i was doing and felt dirty.
You will dust the coal storage with a toothbrush as penance! 😉😂
It is a very good thing that the Swedish maintain neutrality throughout the world wars. Speaking from a World War II standpoint a ship like that would not have lasted 20 minutes up against the Scharnhorst the Deutschland or a admiral, hipper class heavy cruiser.
Very true, but the question is if the Germans could have spared a Hipper, Deutschland or Scharnhorst to deal with O2 and the Äran-class, or if those would have been preoccupied by the Sverige-class and their escorts.
A Scharnhorst will run aground in the Swedish archipelago, or sail in a very predictical route, in front of all the costal artillery forts. A Sverige class coastal defence ship (that have battelship guns and armor) will vreck a Deutschland or Hipper.
Well she was not supposed to fight a Deutschland, Hipper or Scharnhorst to begin with. The Swedish navy thoroughly understood that O2 and the Äran-class were barely 2nd line units.
Their job was to provide command and control for the local defence squadrons and to provide a heavier presence in areas which otherwise would only at best had a mix of old destroyers and armed auxiliaries.
Essentially a form of reverse gunboat diplomacy. As the Swedish-German relationship became less friendly the Germans would start to harass or even at times outright attack Swedish military and civilian ships near the maritime border. But the sight of one of the older costal defence ships like Manligheten lumbering into view was enough to put a halt to events for the moment. It is one thing to go after an auxiliary cruiser or one small (785 ton) 'costal destroyers'. Another to deal with two 21cm and at least six 15cm cannon as well as a good deal of armor.
äntligen ett svenskt skepp :)
"That's some nice intro music you have there. It'd be a shame if something happened to it."
*Spurious Copyright Strike!*
89th, 23 September 2023
I guess the Swedes are not into museum ships? But what would be the message they would convey? "This ship was built in the first decade of the 20th century. She witnessed the horrors of WWI and WWII all around her and *did absolutely nothing about it.* Her crews just sat on their thumbs and whistled Dixie."
There are a bunch of Swedish museum ships, but they're mostly smaller or old civilian ships.
I still prefer the old intro music. Can we have that back please?
He was getting copyright strikes because of it so he is investigating others.
I agree, but the composer would like paid, and that's not forthcoming.
@@andrewmacgregor8717the old music can be found on multiple sites listed by the original author as copyright free. I can guarantee you they aren't seeing any of the money the parasitic DRM company is trying to extort from people
@@Drachinifel Damned leeches.
@@ManiusCuriusDenatusHang the leeches!
I skip past the opening sequence these days
Not a fan of the new intro music.
I'm sorry, but the new intro music is giving me Red Dead Redemption vibes.
Great video Drach - but sorry, and I have tried…, I still hate the new music.
PPPPPLLLLLEEEEAASSEE go back the original theme!!!!
Would love to, but can't, story in one of the community posts
Top spEEd not important when you're always in "neutral"...
First !
I hate this intro music.
I prefer the old entry. New one sounds too much like Gilligans Island.