“The simple truth is that we haven’t got a clue” sums it up perfectly. All those so called experts with their thesis’s when in reality it’s anyone’s guess what those stone carvings actually mean. Neolithic graffiti? Another interesting and entertaining episode. Thank you Darren, keep up the good work. Now, I’m off to carve some stones in the hope I baffle someone 5,000 years from now! 😮🤔
There are actually some similar carvings in an urban park in Liverpool- on the eponymous rocks the Calderstones Park is named after. There are six carved sandstone boulders that they think used to form a dolmen, but they've had to put most of them in a greenhouse to stop them eroding.
For them to be global, I think you are right on the money with the sky theory for what it's worth. I love the teleportation device at 1k. I'm still a ways to go to get that feature. Thanks for sharing.
Enjoyed this one and particularly the 70's snooker commentator voice-over section. Going to be paying much more attention to our local millstone grit boulders from now on...
Thank you. Let me know if you find anything! There will be cup and ring marks out on the moors that nobody has ever identified before - I hope to make a discovery one day!
Fantastic work Mr WC21, and what a lot going on here! Fascinating that these marks might be some sort of primitive map, or indeed an astronomic chart. If the former, particularly in proximity to the axe factory, I wonder if the marks might have somehow signified the perceived quality (or ease of extraction?) of the materials in different locations - which might be particularly valuable if the site wasn't being constantly worked. Perhaps they occasionally had to take a break during long harsh winters or other events like tribal scuffles and wanted to be able to pick up more easily where they left off...? I suspect there might originally have been some kind of pigment in the markings to denote the grading for the different sites. However your theory about depicting the sky seems very plausible, especially in context of known (albeit, of course, later) artefacts like the Nebra sky disc. That doesn't have to be "mumbo jumbo" - I think there are some quite pragmatic reasons for wanting to have a basic grasp of astronomy for figuring out the passage of years / months, which could have been important to early agriculture. I enjoyed the 1970s snooker commentator voiceover and as soon as I saw the lichen I was itching to hear you say the line!
Thank you Tweedy! I’m glad you enjoyed it - I think this period is of particular interest to you? To be honest, I was highly sceptical about the axe factory map idea, but then I put it on the OS and it did work! I agree - I suspect the art was painted in some way to really stand out. Difficult to see now, but once you do spot it, there’s something staggering about it. A large panel with this complex design on it. Sorry for borrowing “lichen and subscribe” - it just happened! Yes, I do think there has to be a link to the heavens in these designs. The sky must have been a huge thing to them. They could well have an astronomical significance, I agree. Endlessly fascinating!
It shows that you have more time on your hands now to hone these things to perfection - And what a good thing that is! You have found your vocation. Keep them coming!
What an interesting and beautiful place! Where I live (California), there are man made depressions in large boulders used by native Americans to grind acorns and seeds. But these are single holes, not multiple as you have shown and certainly not on sides of boulders. Your hypothesis regarding mapping the skies does make the most sense and makes me appreciate all the more our ancestors who struggled to understand their world.
Thank you very much for the Super Thanks and your lovely feedback on the video. This rock art is so mysterious and beautiful too. My sense is that the circular shapes are influenced by the sun, moon and stars, but of course we don’t really know. I’m not sure I believe in the sacrifice theory - not during the Neolithic period, anyhow. I’m so pleased these examples have survived for over 5,000 years to provide us with a tantalising glimpse of their world!
Hopes may still rise on the Grasmere when the WC21 team have been in the near vicinity making yet another superb production. I really like your theory behind the symbology behind the cup and ring marks and seems more in harmony with the kind of life lived at that time. I haven't, so far, seen much real evidence that our neolithic ancestors, at least in this corner of the planet, practised human sacrifice. There's more evidence of that in later ages, when people began to settle and work the land in larger and larger communities.
Thank you. Yes I think the sacrifice ideas are not appropriate for the Neolithic period. People needed to be a bit more settled to come up with that gruesome concept! It fascinates me that there are so many cup and ring marks, yet we don’t really know what they are. It just seems likely to me that they represent the big mysterious orbs in the sky. But to what ends, I don’t know. Well done on identifying The Smiths reference!
Ah well, you might as well know that I'm a huge Smiths fan and have been since their first album came out when I was 14. I still go to see Johnny Marr in concert with his when band when I can.
Super production, enjoyed this so much and in one of my favourite places. I think the rock art under the quarries are a map, but yes the stars always played a big part for the others, as you so rightly say they had a different frame of reference. Excellent, excellent, excellent.
Wow, so many new subscribers. Wonderful video, loved the circles, amazed that you can just wander over Neolithic art. Given their shape perhaps they were the original tuits. Thank you, love the slick editing and overlays.
Thank you so much Chris - great feedback which I really appreciate! Talking about wandering over the Neolithic art, the Langdale Boulders are popular with climbers and they climb up them! Sadly, I think that’s contributing to the rapid disappearance there.
New to your channel and enjoying it very much. Can I throw a curve ball into the mix and say that they don’t mean anything. Just very old doodles when people were bored or just had time on their hands. It would be interesting to know if, after all records are destroyed, future archeology surveys of our graffiti would make any sense. Just a thought.
Thank you very much! I do wonder if they are doodles - it would be funny if it were as simple as that! I do wonder, though - it is a lot of effort. Endlessly mysterious and fascinating!
Thanks David. I find the axe factory utterly fascinating. The length of time it was in production and the distribution over such a large area. Just mind blowing, really. Glad you enjoyed it!
Sans savaging from me. (I hint at my Anglo-Norman roots to the UK.) I think it's certainly possible you're on the right track. I will add to your interpretation of "celestial observation" that the circles/halos and such etchings could also be teaching diagrams for planting crops or when to expect the rainy season, etc. A Neolithic "Farmer's Almanac" if you will. Here, in Oregon, there are pictographs and rock carvings dating quite far back, possibly further than the "axe factory" period you detailed in the video. I have a general outlook that our distant ancestors were as savvy, or more so, than we, when it came to reading the cycles of weather and life patterns. Enjoying the content and your YT teleportation thingy is closely linked to "turbo-mode" in sawmilling videos... Cheers! From the Willamette Valley, Oregon, North Americay.
I've always been fascinated by the ancient Oregon petroglyphs ....Also the far more modern, but equally amazing, Oregon national historic trail ruts in the rock.
Yes, I think there can be a tendency to underestimate the intelligence of these people. I think they were as intelligent as us, but without all the knowledge that has been accumulated since. Understanding the seasons was key to them, as the first settled farmers. I’ll have to look up what you’ve got in Oregon. Might just be able to teleport out there now?!
@@WC21UKProductionsLtd You'd be welcome here. I'd be happy to guide you to the "local" cave/rock petroglyphs in Cascadia, few miles uphill from Sweet Home, (yes, really!) Oregon.
@@philcollinson328 Been over/around and walked along some of those steel-tired wagon ruts on the OT. Some of the ancient petroglyphs are really descriptive -- no imagination necessary to interpret what they intended with their art.
@@WC21UKProductionsLtd Heck...If we buy Mr WC21 a few more coffees, I expect he'd upgrade from a teleporter, invest in a Tardis and go film the events of the past for us. He'd be a consummate regeneration of Dr Who.
Hi Darren, Very interesting video, brilliant presentation, well done!! You are gradually getting the hang of the teletransporter app thingy we are of course on tenterhooks now wondering if you've made it back or not. Perhaps you found a wormhole into Tweedies coal bunker and are trapped, if so I sincerely hope that you can find enough water to survive ...... and a bottle opener!! To carve these shapes would have taken great skill and effort so there must have been a purpose. I wondered whether the horizontal cup shapes may have been used to support a wooden structure. Later I thought they may have been used for grinding and holding pigments. Perhaps the circular ones were the fore fathers of The Smiths contemporaries, The Inspiral Carpets .... actually they do remind me of the carpet we had in our dining room in the 70s!! Big sigh of relief this week as well said our final good-byes to Dad. I checked the guests at the funeral and there was no sign of any Martin Wellbourne look alikes. I cracked this joke with mum too and she did remember poor old Reggie and we both shared a few chuckles!! All the best!!
Thanks David and glad to hear that things are going OK for you. The Grasmere cup marks made me think of the 70s too, for some reason! I like the pigments idea - works for those on a flat surface, for sure. They are so wonderfully enigmatic. A real mystery left to us, thousands of years ago!
Very interesting and presented with great humour. Be careful with the teleportation as you don't want to end up inside the boulder. The star explanation is credible but equally, the holes could have been cup holders for the workers. Holes on top for full cups and the others for refills.
Cheers Ron. Like a lot of people in this game (if it is a “game”!) cup and ring marks are the biggest prehistoric conundrum to unlock. When I was editing this one and looking at the idea that the Copt Howe design is a map of the valley, it increasingly worked as that. Which would suggest the design is multifunctional. I’ve got some more to look at soon. I want to look into design variations.
That was absolutely fascinating. The weather and location was at least a bit safer than your descent from the Axe Factory recently! 'Panic' by the awesome Smiths very likely popped into your mind whilst up there on the mountain, hence ''Hopes may rise on the Grasmere''. 🤣. Anyway, back to the other rock art in the park. I'd heard of the boulders and had always presumed they were glacial erratics that Neolithic folks found beyond comprehension as to how the boulders got there (given they knew their rocks and where certain kinds of rocks should and should not be) so their location near to the vital Axe factory inspired them to celebrate their mysticism with markings. I far prefer your theory of the ancients being inspired by the heavens. And yes, we all just knew you'd have to have a go on the zipline!!! haha.
Thanks Phil and glad you enjoyed it. Aren’t they absolutely fascinating? Some people do think they were honouring the spirit of the rocks, don’t they? They can’t possibly have imagined they’d end up next to a zip wire and a pay and display car park!
@@WC21UKProductionsLtd I'd suppose Upper Paleolithic people may have honoured certain unexplainable rocks, which then seeped it's way into Neolithic beliefs many thousands of years later...Hence Stonehenge and other stone circles where our ancestors actually placed large stones where they wished them to be, rather than where nature randomly left them (Human nature to create order). But I doubt we'll ever understand fully the meaning of beliefs lost to the very distant past. And no, Neolithic people could hardly have envisioned a pay and display carpark ..To this day I find them incomprehensible, money grabbing nonsense when set in a rural location. I expect they'd have thoroughly enjoyed zip wires though.
As you know Mr WC21...I loved this vid...But there was a bit of commentary therein that took me back to a time where Ray Reardon had just ended a 47 break that took an hour, then Alex - Hurricane Higgins had just stepped up to the table and cleared the table 2 mins later. Oddly, I found it somewhat nostalgic.. And I know a few here will understand that comment...most will say ''Huh?'' 🤣
I have spent at least nine weeks camping in Great Langdale over the years. I've done every single peak and walked all of the paths and bridleways. Yet I never realised that all of those cup and ring marks were there. I knew about the axe factory from Wainwright, but I don't remember him mentioning the boulders. It's rather annoying, really. I would have visited them especially. 😊❤😊
Similar here. I had been walking those fells for years without knowing of the existence of these boulders. Definitely worth a visit just to see them and any excuse to visit Great Langdale is a good one!
@@WC21UKProductionsLtd I was more impressed with cup marks being global, a tool of some fashion, if they're all different sizes, a massive production of post joints( I've just realised what I've said their..) for enclosures, fencing, wood handle tools.or......
The Trek Planner is one of my favourite channels, usually drops on a Saturday, he goes into the Utah desert looking for peublo? dwellings and structures, nice guy.
@@WC21UKProductionsLtd forgot my theory regarding cup and Utah carvings(usually a shallow rectangle with a flat shallow scoop), oh my theory...oh yes, some of these may be apprentice pieces....would be interesting to have microscopic/spectro graph thing look at them.....crikey, I've only had 2 wee Hamlets and I'm fizzing, more lager should even things out. Off to watch Donkey Dave and Long John do 3/4s of a Bootle of whisky and talk crap on his livestream. Gonna try out my putter or 9 iron joke. Toodle pip!
Are you familiar with "The Prehistory Guys"? Top chaps who definitely appreciate a good Pike. If you haven't seen the 2007 film they made "Standing with Stones", it's definitely worth a few hours of your time. They are kindred souls and not at all Mumbo Jumboists. I just made that word up. And as to the Blackboard theory- what happens when you need to erase something? I'd hate to be the kid who has to do that after school.
Thanks for the recommendation - I will check that out! Yes, I think whoever came up with the “blackboard” idea chose the wrong word. “Instructional Rock”?!
I hate to keep blowing Scotland's trumpet here (or should that be carnyx) but the Historic Environment Scotland 'Scotland's Rock Art' catalogue is probably the most up-to-date survey and thinking on what its all about - spoiler alert - they don't know either. My best guess, and it is only a guess, is a single 'cup' is a single male making it as a right of passage, every 'ring' stands for each son he has (presuming its a very patriarchal society). Sometimes they have a line from the 'cup' going straight through the 'rings', which could represent family line extinct. Just guessing, probably different meanings across the globe. They're not too difficult to make. I managed a cup and near complete ring on a lump of sandstone using a lump of quartz as a hammer stone in my back garden drinking Earl Grey on a pleasant summer's afternoon. (Can't wait to see Francis' Pryor's face when he discovers it in his rockery). Can't see it as representing a map, alignments or the sky. They're just too randomly placed.
Cheers Iain. That's a really interesting theory and new on me. I like it. I was highly doubtful about the idea of it being a map, but once you overlay it on the Langdale terrain you can make it work. It just doesn't make sense to me that they would use these symbols in such a multi-functional way. Regardless, it's a very striking set of carvings on that rock and must have been made by folks who were involved with the axe factory operation.
@@WC21UKProductionsLtd If you want to see how the study of rock art attracts 'theories' the Cochno Stone, Faifley, West Dunbartonshire, is a good case study; archaeologist, antiquarians, the tin foil hat brigade, politicians and local Neds have all decided to claim it as their own, so much so that they had to re-bury it.
The transmission of ideas and beliefs during the Neolithic is incredible. Their society is starting to be acknowledged as far more sophisticated than previously thought.
@@WC21UKProductionsLtd " the habit's I've got are more than 10,000 years old..." lyric from The Game by Roy Harper...I'm on the green.....putter or 9iron...👽
Well spotted! It is quite new, but did appear in Continuity and a Fort from the Dark Ages, earlier in the year. There are many hats - all broadly similar!
@@WC21UKProductionsLtd Haha! Sorry guys, just inspired Mr WC21 to sing another song...Admittedly, he may be able to hold a note...but he holds said note for a ransom ...A coffee or you'll never see that note again! . 🤣.
Maybe Morrisey knows the answer...Maybe the answer is in the lyrics of Panic....maybe there are cup ring stones in Carlisle, Dublin ,Dundee and Humberside..Maybe it's not written about Jimmy Savile after all.
Not a silly idea at all. The night sky’s would have been magnificent without all the light pollution we have today. How about doing Ilkly Moor rock art 🤔
Hi Jennifer - agreed. I did do a video up there, it’s called “Mist,,Moors and Mud”, but I will return to cover that amazing place more comprehensively!
Love the style of your work, but I think you are falling into a common trap when trying to decipher items of antiquity like cup marks. Why do people always try to assign one meaning to them? Why cant some be landscape maps and others be star maps? Could some on the top of a rock be for sacrifice to the Old Gods (???) and others be for supporting a frame to hang animal skins on? If your only means of construction is carving in stone, or the only one that has survived, then you would use it for many things.
I think Mr WC21 (UK) Productions Ltd did explore, and indeed comment upon many proposed interpretations of the carvings on the boulders in fairness to him.
Thank you. You are right, I went there ready to dismiss the idea that the Langdale Boulder was a map of the axe factory, but when I placed the schematic over the OS, I found that I couldn’t dismiss it. I did keep the speed limit thing in because I thought it was quite funny and that is an argument that many make, as you rightly say. I’m not sure if I believe they were sacrificing people on these rocks, but I am open to the idea that the images could be multifunctional. Thanks for your engagement. I often end up with a different opinion after the event!
Well you know I like to leave an, erm...alternate Loony tunes theory 🤣...I believe the rocks are glacial erratics ...If one is a Neolithic type sitting on a retreating glacier, you'd need somewhere to put your drinks ...If a Ford can have a cupholder, why not an erratic?
@@WC21UKProductionsLtd Haha ...Fix or Repair Daily..Also known as Ford, they travel at the same speed as a retreating glacier ...One needs a cup for one's tea or...COFFEES upon said travels.
This is very strange … I actually agree with you. Circular structures and motifs seemed to dominate the cultural identities of prehistoric peoples throughout the world. Whether it is Australian First People’s or Stonehenge leaders they explained their world using stones by creating megalithic circular structures or rock “art”. My good lady was amused by your antics in front of the camera. Meddling in the dark forces can have unintended consequences. No sign of monkey man this week. Disappointed. As for the Last of Summer Wine reference, I think you dress standards are more akin to “Ian Carmichael” as Bertie Wooster and the malarkey you perform is more akin to Wooster. More Monkey Magic please.
Thank you Andrew! The cup and ring marks are so wonderfully enigmatic, but it seems likely to me that their design is influenced by the 2 huge circles in the sky. What they were for, though… I will endeavour to find another Monkey Man if I can. I do have another video in the pipeline that has some potential for that. Thank you for watching and commenting and nice to hear that your wife enjoyed it too! The female demographic on this channel is something I need to address.
@@WC21UKProductionsLtd Well you can't make axes all day, and the kids have to do something to pass the time away :) The ones in the top of the rock in the car park is probably where they sharpened sticks and stuff, maybe making handles for the axes, and sharp stones to chisel the graffiti
@@WC21UKProductionsLtd Oh yer :) If you give a kid a crayon and a piece of paper they draw the same designs , spirals circles wobbly lines and squiggles.
Very interesting indeed . They were smarter than we give them credit for .
Thank you. Agreed - our Neolithic ancestors seem to have been organised and very resourceful.
“The simple truth is that we haven’t got a clue” sums it up perfectly. All those so called experts with their thesis’s when in reality it’s anyone’s guess what those stone carvings actually mean. Neolithic graffiti?
Another interesting and entertaining episode. Thank you Darren, keep up the good work.
Now, I’m off to carve some stones in the hope I baffle someone 5,000 years from now! 😮🤔
Thanks Andrew! I often consider leaving traps for future archaeologists!
There are actually some similar carvings in an urban park in Liverpool- on the eponymous rocks the Calderstones Park is named after. There are six carved sandstone boulders that they think used to form a dolmen, but they've had to put most of them in a greenhouse to stop them eroding.
Oh thank you - I will have to look into those. It rings a bell, actually. Sounds right up my street!
@@WC21UKProductionsLtd Cool.
For them to be global, I think you are right on the money with the sky theory for what it's worth. I love the teleportation device at 1k. I'm still a ways to go to get that feature. Thanks for sharing.
Thank you Chris! I’m sure you’ll get to the 1K soon and then all these RUclips powers will unlock for you!
Enjoyed this one and particularly the 70's snooker commentator voice-over section.
Going to be paying much more attention to our local millstone grit boulders from now on...
Thank you. Let me know if you find anything! There will be cup and ring marks out on the moors that nobody has ever identified before - I hope to make a discovery one day!
Fantastic work Mr WC21, and what a lot going on here!
Fascinating that these marks might be some sort of primitive map, or indeed an astronomic chart. If the former, particularly in proximity to the axe factory, I wonder if the marks might have somehow signified the perceived quality (or ease of extraction?) of the materials in different locations - which might be particularly valuable if the site wasn't being constantly worked. Perhaps they occasionally had to take a break during long harsh winters or other events like tribal scuffles and wanted to be able to pick up more easily where they left off...? I suspect there might originally have been some kind of pigment in the markings to denote the grading for the different sites.
However your theory about depicting the sky seems very plausible, especially in context of known (albeit, of course, later) artefacts like the Nebra sky disc. That doesn't have to be "mumbo jumbo" - I think there are some quite pragmatic reasons for wanting to have a basic grasp of astronomy for figuring out the passage of years / months, which could have been important to early agriculture.
I enjoyed the 1970s snooker commentator voiceover and as soon as I saw the lichen I was itching to hear you say the line!
Thank you Tweedy!
I’m glad you enjoyed it - I think this period is of particular interest to you? To be honest, I was highly sceptical about the axe factory map idea, but then I put it on the OS and it did work!
I agree - I suspect the art was painted in some way to really stand out. Difficult to see now, but once you do spot it, there’s something staggering about it. A large panel with this complex design on it.
Sorry for borrowing “lichen and subscribe” - it just happened!
Yes, I do think there has to be a link to the heavens in these designs. The sky must have been a huge thing to them. They could well have an astronomical significance, I agree.
Endlessly fascinating!
It shows that you have more time on your hands now to hone these things to perfection - And what a good thing that is! You have found your vocation. Keep them coming!
Thank you Matthias - I see I have a notification from your channel, which I will check out shortly!
What an interesting and beautiful place! Where I live (California), there are man made depressions in large boulders used by native Americans to grind acorns and seeds. But these are single holes, not multiple as you have shown and certainly not on sides of boulders. Your hypothesis regarding mapping the skies does make the most sense and makes me appreciate all the more our ancestors who struggled to understand their world.
Thank you very much for the Super Thanks and your lovely feedback on the video. This rock art is so mysterious and beautiful too. My sense is that the circular shapes are influenced by the sun, moon and stars, but of course we don’t really know. I’m not sure I believe in the sacrifice theory - not during the Neolithic period, anyhow.
I’m so pleased these examples have survived for over 5,000 years to provide us with a tantalising glimpse of their world!
Hopes may still rise on the Grasmere when the WC21 team have been in the near vicinity making yet another superb production. I really like your theory behind the symbology behind the cup and ring marks and seems more in harmony with the kind of life lived at that time. I haven't, so far, seen much real evidence that our neolithic ancestors, at least in this corner of the planet, practised human sacrifice. There's more evidence of that in later ages, when people began to settle and work the land in larger and larger communities.
Thank you. Yes I think the sacrifice ideas are not appropriate for the Neolithic period. People needed to be a bit more settled to come up with that gruesome concept!
It fascinates me that there are so many cup and ring marks, yet we don’t really know what they are. It just seems likely to me that they represent the big mysterious orbs in the sky. But to what ends, I don’t know.
Well done on identifying The Smiths reference!
Ah well, you might as well know that I'm a huge Smiths fan and have been since their first album came out when I was 14. I still go to see Johnny Marr in concert with his when band when I can.
@@standingbadger Another huge Smiths fan here! From exactly the same age of 14 ...1968 born here. 🤣
I’m loving the teleporting! I concur with you on the rock art - definitely to do with the sky above them. 👍🏻
Thank you. It’s got to be linked to the sun and the moon I think.
Getting the hang of the teleportation now!
Super production, enjoyed this so much and in one of my favourite places. I think the rock art under the quarries are a map, but yes the stars always played a big part for the others, as you so rightly say they had a different frame of reference. Excellent, excellent, excellent.
Thank you Hedley. I was surprised how well the axe factory map idea worked when I overlayed it onto the OS. It sort of leapt out of the screen at me!
@@WC21UKProductionsLtd may be worth following that one up
Wow, so many new subscribers. Wonderful video, loved the circles, amazed that you can just wander over Neolithic art. Given their shape perhaps they were the original tuits. Thank you, love the slick editing and overlays.
Thank you so much Chris - great feedback which I really appreciate!
Talking about wandering over the Neolithic art, the Langdale Boulders are popular with climbers and they climb up them! Sadly, I think that’s contributing to the rapid disappearance there.
New to your channel and enjoying it very much. Can I throw a curve ball into the mix and say that they don’t mean anything. Just very old doodles when people were bored or just had time on their hands. It would be interesting to know if, after all records are destroyed, future archeology surveys of our graffiti would make any sense. Just a thought.
Thank you very much!
I do wonder if they are doodles - it would be funny if it were as simple as that! I do wonder, though - it is a lot of effort. Endlessly mysterious and fascinating!
Quite fascinating! And the axe factory is incredible history 🇬🇧 🇳🇿
Thanks David. I find the axe factory utterly fascinating. The length of time it was in production and the distribution over such a large area. Just mind blowing, really. Glad you enjoyed it!
Absolutely. Makes you wonder how they bartered and sold goods back then too
@@david6920-r6z I imagine they haggled...And called each other big nose whilst doing such. 😂
@@philcollinson328 and then went to the local for a nice pint of warm mead and cold pork pie 😂
Absolutely fantastic video! Many thanks for the hard work.
Thank you Jane - glad you enjoyed it. It was quite hard to explain and illustrate that boulder artwork. What a fantastic thing it is!
So fascinating 👌
Thank you! Absolutely right - these carvings are enigmatic and utterly fascinating! Glad you enjoyed the video.
Sans savaging from me. (I hint at my Anglo-Norman roots to the UK.)
I think it's certainly possible you're on the right track. I will add to your interpretation of "celestial observation" that the circles/halos and such etchings could also be teaching diagrams for planting crops or when to expect the rainy season, etc.
A Neolithic "Farmer's Almanac" if you will.
Here, in Oregon, there are pictographs and rock carvings dating quite far back, possibly further than the "axe factory" period you detailed in the video. I have a general outlook that our distant ancestors were as savvy, or more so, than we, when it came to reading the cycles of weather and life patterns.
Enjoying the content and your YT teleportation thingy is closely linked to "turbo-mode" in sawmilling videos...
Cheers! From the Willamette Valley, Oregon, North Americay.
I've always been fascinated by the ancient Oregon petroglyphs ....Also the far more modern, but equally amazing, Oregon national historic trail ruts in the rock.
Yes, I think there can be a tendency to underestimate the intelligence of these people. I think they were as intelligent as us, but without all the knowledge that has been accumulated since. Understanding the seasons was key to them, as the first settled farmers.
I’ll have to look up what you’ve got in Oregon. Might just be able to teleport out there now?!
@@WC21UKProductionsLtd You'd be welcome here. I'd be happy to guide you to the "local" cave/rock petroglyphs in Cascadia, few miles uphill from Sweet Home, (yes, really!) Oregon.
@@philcollinson328 Been over/around and walked along some of those steel-tired wagon ruts on the OT.
Some of the ancient petroglyphs are really descriptive -- no imagination necessary to interpret what they intended with their art.
@@WC21UKProductionsLtd Heck...If we buy Mr WC21 a few more coffees, I expect he'd upgrade from a teleporter, invest in a Tardis and go film the events of the past for us. He'd be a consummate regeneration of Dr Who.
Hi Darren, Very interesting video, brilliant presentation, well done!!
You are gradually getting the hang of the teletransporter app thingy we are of course on tenterhooks now wondering if you've made it back or not. Perhaps you found a wormhole into Tweedies coal bunker and are trapped, if so I sincerely hope that you can find enough water to survive ...... and a bottle opener!!
To carve these shapes would have taken great skill and effort so there must have been a purpose. I wondered whether the horizontal cup shapes may have been used to support a wooden structure. Later I thought they may have been used for grinding and holding pigments. Perhaps the circular ones were the fore fathers of The Smiths contemporaries, The Inspiral Carpets .... actually they do remind me of the carpet we had in our dining room in the 70s!!
Big sigh of relief this week as well said our final good-byes to Dad. I checked the guests at the funeral and there was no sign of any Martin Wellbourne look alikes. I cracked this joke with mum too and she did remember poor old Reggie and we both shared a few chuckles!!
All the best!!
Thanks David and glad to hear that things are going OK for you.
The Grasmere cup marks made me think of the 70s too, for some reason! I like the pigments idea - works for those on a flat surface, for sure.
They are so wonderfully enigmatic. A real mystery left to us, thousands of years ago!
Very interesting and presented with great humour. Be careful with the teleportation as you don't want to end up inside the boulder. The star explanation is credible but equally, the holes could have been cup holders for the workers. Holes on top for full cups and the others for refills.
Cheers Ron. Like a lot of people in this game (if it is a “game”!) cup and ring marks are the biggest prehistoric conundrum to unlock.
When I was editing this one and looking at the idea that the Copt Howe design is a map of the valley, it increasingly worked as that. Which would suggest the design is multifunctional.
I’ve got some more to look at soon. I want to look into design variations.
That was absolutely fascinating. The weather and location was at least a bit safer than your descent from the Axe Factory recently! 'Panic' by the awesome Smiths very likely popped into your mind whilst up there on the mountain, hence ''Hopes may rise on the Grasmere''. 🤣. Anyway, back to the other rock art in the park. I'd heard of the boulders and had always presumed they were glacial erratics that Neolithic folks found beyond comprehension as to how the boulders got there (given they knew their rocks and where certain kinds of rocks should and should not be) so their location near to the vital Axe factory inspired them to celebrate their mysticism with markings. I far prefer your theory of the ancients being inspired by the heavens. And yes, we all just knew you'd have to have a go on the zipline!!! haha.
Thanks Phil and glad you enjoyed it.
Aren’t they absolutely fascinating? Some people do think they were honouring the spirit of the rocks, don’t they?
They can’t possibly have imagined they’d end up next to a zip wire and a pay and display car park!
@@WC21UKProductionsLtd I'd suppose Upper Paleolithic people may have honoured certain unexplainable rocks, which then seeped it's way into Neolithic beliefs many thousands of years later...Hence Stonehenge and other stone circles where our ancestors actually placed large stones where they wished them to be, rather than where nature randomly left them (Human nature to create order). But I doubt we'll ever understand fully the meaning of beliefs lost to the very distant past. And no, Neolithic people could hardly have envisioned a pay and display carpark ..To this day I find them incomprehensible, money grabbing nonsense when set in a rural location. I expect they'd have thoroughly enjoyed zip wires though.
As you know Mr WC21...I loved this vid...But there was a bit of commentary therein that took me back to a time where Ray Reardon had just ended a 47 break that took an hour, then Alex - Hurricane Higgins had just stepped up to the table and cleared the table 2 mins later. Oddly, I found it somewhat nostalgic.. And I know a few here will understand that comment...most will say ''Huh?'' 🤣
Ha! I don’t know where that voice came from! From deep within my 70s subconscious, I expect!
@@WC21UKProductionsLtd I imagine George Lucas will contact you soon to narrate Darth Vader's scenes .
I have spent at least nine weeks camping in Great Langdale over the years. I've done every single peak and walked all of the paths and bridleways. Yet I never realised that all of those cup and ring marks were there. I knew about the axe factory from Wainwright, but I don't remember him mentioning the boulders. It's rather annoying, really. I would have visited them especially. 😊❤😊
Similar here. I had been walking those fells for years without knowing of the existence of these boulders. Definitely worth a visit just to see them and any excuse to visit Great Langdale is a good one!
@@WC21UKProductionsLtd I 100% agree.
Thanks!
Thank you kindly. Much appreciated!
I found the Grasmere rock the best one.
Yes, I love that it’s there!
Langdale axe found in the burial chamber at Broadford,Skye. Over the footbridge about 100 yards on the way to Irishman's Point.
The distribution of the axes is mind boggling when you think about the implications of it.
@@WC21UKProductionsLtd I was more impressed with cup marks being global, a tool of some fashion, if they're all different sizes, a massive production of post joints( I've just realised what I've said their..) for enclosures, fencing, wood handle tools.or......
The Trek Planner is one of my favourite channels, usually drops on a Saturday, he goes into the Utah desert looking for peublo? dwellings and structures, nice guy.
@@WC21UKProductionsLtd forgot my theory regarding cup and Utah carvings(usually a shallow rectangle with a flat shallow scoop), oh my theory...oh yes, some of these may be apprentice pieces....would be interesting to have microscopic/spectro graph thing look at them.....crikey, I've only had 2 wee Hamlets and I'm fizzing, more lager should even things out. Off to watch Donkey Dave and Long John do 3/4s of a Bootle of whisky and talk crap on his livestream. Gonna try out my putter or 9 iron joke. Toodle pip!
@billykershaw2781 yes, there are even similar ones in South America, I believe!
Are you familiar with "The Prehistory Guys"? Top chaps who definitely appreciate a good Pike. If you haven't seen the 2007 film they made "Standing with Stones", it's definitely worth a few hours of your time. They are kindred souls and not at all Mumbo Jumboists. I just made that word up. And as to the Blackboard theory- what happens when you need to erase something? I'd hate to be the kid who has to do that after school.
Thanks for the recommendation - I will check that out!
Yes, I think whoever came up with the “blackboard” idea chose the wrong word. “Instructional Rock”?!
I hate to keep blowing Scotland's trumpet here (or should that be carnyx) but the Historic Environment Scotland 'Scotland's Rock Art' catalogue is probably the most up-to-date survey and thinking on what its all about - spoiler alert - they don't know either.
My best guess, and it is only a guess, is a single 'cup' is a single male making it as a right of passage, every 'ring' stands for each son he has (presuming its a very patriarchal society). Sometimes they have a line from the 'cup' going straight through the 'rings', which could represent family line extinct. Just guessing, probably different meanings across the globe.
They're not too difficult to make. I managed a cup and near complete ring on a lump of sandstone using a lump of quartz as a hammer stone in my back garden drinking Earl Grey on a pleasant summer's afternoon. (Can't wait to see Francis' Pryor's face when he discovers it in his rockery).
Can't see it as representing a map, alignments or the sky. They're just too randomly placed.
Cheers Iain. That's a really interesting theory and new on me. I like it.
I was highly doubtful about the idea of it being a map, but once you overlay it on the Langdale terrain you can make it work. It just doesn't make sense to me that they would use these symbols in such a multi-functional way. Regardless, it's a very striking set of carvings on that rock and must have been made by folks who were involved with the axe factory operation.
@@WC21UKProductionsLtd If you want to see how the study of rock art attracts 'theories' the Cochno Stone, Faifley, West Dunbartonshire, is a good case study; archaeologist, antiquarians, the tin foil hat brigade, politicians and local Neds have all decided to claim it as their own, so much so that they had to re-bury it.
Think there's a ring and cup inscribed stone slab buried in the ivy near the east side of the entrance to Bowes museum, Barnard Castle.
The transmission of ideas and beliefs during the Neolithic is incredible. Their society is starting to be acknowledged as far more sophisticated than previously thought.
Imported by the Bowes family methinks, there might even be plaque on it, I forget, watch out for dog crap under those trees!
@@WC21UKProductionsLtd " the habit's I've got are more than 10,000 years old..." lyric from The Game by Roy Harper...I'm on the green.....putter or 9iron...👽
Be careful! Everyone knows that Honeypie you’re not safe here.
Thank you. Fortunately I ran down to the safety of the town and am fine!
I don't know it seems pretty obvious to me that the circles represent the stars, sun and moon above. Or possibly UFOs of course.
I forgot to mention the UFO argument! Thank you!
Is that a new hat?
Well spotted! It is quite new, but did appear in Continuity and a Fort from the Dark Ages, earlier in the year. There are many hats - all broadly similar!
@@WC21UKProductionsLtd Where did you get that hat? ...Isn't it a lovely one?...best stop now ...Only us oldies tend to know that song. 🙄
I’d forgotten that song. I might do a rendition of it in an upcoming video!
@@WC21UKProductionsLtd Haha! Sorry guys, just inspired Mr WC21 to sing another song...Admittedly, he may be able to hold a note...but he holds said note for a ransom ...A coffee or you'll never see that note again! . 🤣.
@philcollinson328 😂
Maybe Morrisey knows the answer...Maybe the answer is in the lyrics of Panic....maybe there are cup ring stones in Carlisle, Dublin ,Dundee and Humberside..Maybe it's not written about Jimmy Savile after all.
Ha! I did think of mentioning the Jimmy Savile thing, but thought I’d leave it, having got dangerously close last week!
@@WC21UKProductionsLtd Yeah ..Mr WC21 fixed it for me last week🤣 ....I never was a fan of Jimmy ...best forgotten.
Not a silly idea at all. The night sky’s would have been magnificent without all the light pollution we have today. How about doing Ilkly Moor rock art 🤔
Hi Jennifer - agreed. I did do a video up there, it’s called “Mist,,Moors and Mud”, but I will return to cover that amazing place more comprehensively!
What no phalli what was up with these neoliths or not up evidently! Meg and Mog too busy stargazing pfft
Ha yes! They didn’t know what they were missing out on!
Hence the human bottleneck event in our past.
Love the style of your work, but I think you are falling into a common trap when trying to decipher items of antiquity like cup marks. Why do people always try to assign one meaning to them? Why cant some be landscape maps and others be star maps? Could some on the top of a rock be for sacrifice to the Old Gods (???) and others be for supporting a frame to hang animal skins on? If your only means of construction is carving in stone, or the only one that has survived, then you would use it for many things.
I think Mr WC21 (UK) Productions Ltd did explore, and indeed comment upon many proposed interpretations of the carvings on the boulders in fairness to him.
Thank you. You are right, I went there ready to dismiss the idea that the Langdale Boulder was a map of the axe factory, but when I placed the schematic over the OS, I found that I couldn’t dismiss it. I did keep the speed limit thing in because I thought it was quite funny and that is an argument that many make, as you rightly say.
I’m not sure if I believe they were sacrificing people on these rocks, but I am open to the idea that the images could be multifunctional.
Thanks for your engagement. I often end up with a different opinion after the event!
Indeed he does! ...He called 'Panic' by the Smiths, ''Hang the DJ'' ...A few of us caught that blasphemy🤣.
Well you know I like to leave an, erm...alternate Loony tunes theory 🤣...I believe the rocks are glacial erratics ...If one is a Neolithic type sitting on a retreating glacier, you'd need somewhere to put your drinks ...If a Ford can have a cupholder, why not an erratic?
I wish I’d have thought of that!
@@WC21UKProductionsLtd Haha ...Fix or Repair Daily..Also known as Ford, they travel at the same speed as a retreating glacier ...One needs a cup for one's tea or...COFFEES upon said travels.
I’m thinking of switching that to beers for a bit of a change.
@@WC21UKProductionsLtd As long as you stick to craft beers, a wonderful idea.
I see you're now being monetised with adverts ...Sincere congratulations Sir!...Well deserved success for your hard work.
"Lichen subscribe". Shameless! 😉
Sorry about that - it was impossible to resist!
This is very strange … I actually agree with you. Circular structures and motifs seemed to dominate the cultural identities of prehistoric peoples throughout the world. Whether it is Australian First People’s or Stonehenge leaders they explained their world using stones by creating megalithic circular structures or rock “art”. My good lady was amused by your antics in front of the camera. Meddling in the dark forces can have unintended consequences. No sign of monkey man this week. Disappointed. As for the Last of Summer Wine reference, I think you dress standards are more akin to “Ian Carmichael” as Bertie Wooster and the malarkey you perform is more akin to Wooster. More Monkey Magic please.
Thank you Andrew!
The cup and ring marks are so wonderfully enigmatic, but it seems likely to me that their design is influenced by the 2 huge circles in the sky. What they were for, though…
I will endeavour to find another Monkey Man if I can. I do have another video in the pipeline that has some potential for that.
Thank you for watching and commenting and nice to hear that your wife enjoyed it too! The female demographic on this channel is something I need to address.
Hey...I have posted this week mate! ...Oh, you meant the Lud's Church monkey man 🤣
@andrewbarnett5542 Hey...I have posted this week mate! ...Oh, you meant the Lud's Church monkey man 🤣
Its just graffiti
Oh no, don't say that!
@@WC21UKProductionsLtd Well you can't make axes all day, and the kids have to do something to pass the time away :) The ones in the top of the rock in the car park is probably where they sharpened sticks and stuff, maybe making handles for the axes, and sharp stones to chisel the graffiti
Oh you mean Neolithic graffiti - that’s fine then!
@@WC21UKProductionsLtd Oh yer :) If you give a kid a crayon and a piece of paper they draw the same designs , spirals circles wobbly lines and squiggles.