The ones that provided the harmonies are actually rappers so that's why only 4/7 of them had solo parts. The rappers did really well though, we were all so happy to hear them singing and so well too
It's so nice watching someone that isn't stanning over BTS and just analyzing their voices! Don't get me wrong, I do understand everyone who knows them longer and is loving them for who they are, but this is so refreshing! Thank you for your reaction :)
seokjin always get complimented by vocal coaches and trained professionals and that really really speaks volumes,his technique is actually incredible imo he doesn't get the type of appreciation and recognition he deserves,he's not even holding the title of main vocalist in the group which i think is very unfair considering how much his vocal abilities have grown since debut,hes the belter of the group now thats not something to be taken lightly
Well? To be fair, JK doesn’t want to be labeled as the “main vocalist” either….. RM is the leader because he has awesome leading abilities and he’s a genius. Jin tends to just take care of everyone. I don’t know as he wants to be labeled as the “main vocalist”. V cares by making sure everyone feels welcome, that’s why he tends to have the “soulful voice” or the golden voice. Jimin has the voice of an angel, Suga has the patience and writes a lot of their songs, I can see why he wouldn’t want the pressure of being more recognized. JHope supports everyone and is the choreographer and dance master…. Call it what you will, they just match what they do,,,, I’ve seen interviews where they try to pass the mic off to each other until someone(generally RM or V) steps forward and either takes it or gives it to somebody….they put their heart in what they do… but no one is ever truly comfortable being on stage all the time…
i know right? Jin and Jk are the best singers of bts when comes to technique. Jimin and Tae Tae have unique and gorgeous voices, but when comes to technique Jin is the best and have the best breath support, and also JK. i think if all of them took lessons with Sohyand they would improve even more. (please, it is just my opinion, i love all of them, and their voices)
"No one is trying to outshine each other, true group mentality". Yes sir, that is what they are when it comes to performances and other endeavors... except for bts run ✌🏻
Jin is the belter of the group Jimin has the most unique angelic tone Taehyung has the deepest and most soulful voice Jungkook has the crystal clear, stable and controlled voice - BTS vocal line is amazing and I love them because their tones are so distinct from each other yet they compliment each other well. Also, BTS rap line who usually raps but in here they were singing the base lines, this was a surprise but they nailed it, especially Namjoon, I love him singing the base with Jimin and Jin, that harmony was so angelic!
simple and perfect explanation, RM voice sound so good with jin and jimin cuz he has a deep tone and it sound nice to ear hearing his voice against tenors like jin and jimin.
I noticed that everyone just breaks into a warm smile when Jimin starts singing like that, it’s such a sincere reaction 😁 His voice is a treasure honestly AND his technic is immaculate, few people can do what he does
Really Jin's voice is very difficult to match. What is difficult, Jin makes it look like a simple task. Jin's vocal range is impressive, and he is rightly regarded as SILVER VOICE. I was really impressed when she sang the backing vocals for FIX YOU.
6:42 I love how you smiled and your eyes just brightened up with delight when Soekjin hit that high note! We love him, and we love those who genuinely appreciate our boys. 😊
“the truth untold” is another song that maybe you could check out although they’re all great singers, only the vocalists of the group are apart of the song
thank you for the beautiful review! as someone who is admirable of bts but does not know much about singing, this helps me appreciate their talent so much more. It’s often overlooked in reaction videos, and even when made from a voice coach, i quite often come across over-exaggerated reactions and unnecessary, clearly-ingenuine freak outs just to impress the fanbase. This is the type of raw reaction that I needed and is much appreciated by me.
I highly suggest that you check out Film Out. It’s my favorite vocal song by BTS sung in Japanese, and I think you’d appreciate it. The most dynamic & uniquely-orchestrated song that they’ve ever made in my opinion.
Jin is impressive! Knowing that he was asked to audition for the band with zero singing skills, just for his looks, for him being able to get to the high notes shows that he worked really hard. Well done Seokjin! ❤️❤️
The young man you said he's name is Park jimin, and yes he has a gentle and angelic voice, if you have time check his solo song filter,promise, lie and serendipity. Other members also have their solo song. Looking forward for your reaction about them more
My husband and daughter loves Jimin's voice too! I have Jimin bias. My husband has a RM bias and my daughter a JK bias. But we all agree that Jimin sounds like an angel when he sings.
Honestly seokjin's voice never fails to make me cry a voice that tells a million stories. A voice full of emotions. He sounds sincere and honest, I can say this even without knowing the language. Guess that's why people say music transcends language
What I love about Jimin’s voice is that it can be soft, soothing, angelic, but it can also be so raw and emotional. Bright and crystal when he goes all the way up and mesmerizing, smooth, velvety in his lower register. This guy has it all
He appreciated Jin's vocals. And knowing that Jin before debuted he was majoring acting and no background in dancing also in singing. But the truth is that he really can. I'm sobbing. Thank you
Jin shone so bright in this song (they all did), but he really showed the world what one starting out without any singing background or training can do!! He belted that high C Sharp!!
*jimin* voice isnt slightly angelic, its the definition of angelic, too angelic for a male voice :D and *jin* yes he is the powerhouse vocalist and the belter of group for a reason. :D jin and jimin are the 2 members who does high parts with different approach, jimin more with soft and angelic falsettos and jin more strong and powerful belting high notes, thats their signature in group. its actually really fun digging in bts vocals. it was 4 vocalists taking the lead and the 3 rappers add harmonies.
@@cherryshlash5845 lmao your comment makes no sense.Just praise Jungkook if you want,but don't say things which you don't know.Taehyung has the widest vocal in the group,and is the only lyric Baritone legend from South Korea.Jungkook is known for his adlibs,runs and technique.
@@boratroop FYI even the members of bts praises JK specially V in so many interviews that JK is their main vocalist. Google it also so that you will find out LOL! 😂
6:47 Hey John, That's my reaction when Seokjin hit me with those high notes. he's amazing, great person, singer, model, actor, he is perfect . thank you so much for this video.!!!
One of the things I think is most important about BTS is that they are fans of each other. They take pride in the work of the other members and what they can achieve. There is no jealousy within the group members and they want everyone to shine evenly.
I still remember how the pink mic guy Jin caused a huge uproar because of his heavenly voice in "Fix you" cover! His vocals, his high notes, his belting, his mix, his technique everything is perfect! Plus, the emotions which he pours into his voice makes him the BEST VOCALIST! He is phenomenal 🙌💜❤
1:00 the one who opened the song that you said has a “beautiful” voice and a lot of “control over his vocal chords” is Jungkook, the “Main Vocalist” of BTS! 🌟💜 Please react to Jungkook’s live performance of “If You” on the tv show, “the Masked Singer” by Mel Galarza channel to hear more of his beautiful live vocals! 💜 Please also react to “Jungkook is the Main Vocalist of BTS” by Ida S, and BTS “ON Kinetic Manifesto”! 😊💜💜💜
Jk once said only Jin can break the ceiling with a highnote and no one of them (member)can beat it...Jin begin with nothing on music and now just wow!!!
They are indeed a great singers, each of them have unique voices. But Jin hitting those high notes with full of emotions while sitting down is a whole new mood💜💜
When you don't know Jimin but still call him an angel 💀
because he is one 💯🥰
Ikr, it's inevitable 😂😭
He’s an angel 👏👏👏
😇😇😇😘
Por que lo es.
“That young man, his voice is angelic”. Yeah, we know! 😂😂😂😂😂
coz we all fell for it... 😊
I still remember sending my brother a text after the concert telling him jimin sounded like an angel coming from heaven, so yeah we do uajsj
He is an angel to us 💜
I love Jimin's voice 💗
We all know the jimin's effect. Cause of his beautiful voice
The ones that provided the harmonies are actually rappers so that's why only 4/7 of them had solo parts. The rappers did really well though, we were all so happy to hear them singing and so well too
so proud of our rap line
Did you see Permission to Dance yet? Omg!!
Namjoon, Suga and Jhope rocked on Permission to Dance. They were great.
All 7 can sing. Yes the rap line raps obviously, but how lucky are we that their singing voices are also beautiful 🥺
they sang the lower octave, i wouldn't call it a harmony. jin was the only one who actually did a "harmony"
I love the respect for Jin. It’s long overdue.
It warmed my heart! Love our Jin- so humble- receiving the respect he gets from people who really know singing!
EXACTLY
💯💯
So true
No he indeed deserve it
"Singers not on his level". Alright my belting king seokjin 💜
The belter is Jin. He has such powerful voice. I'd really like to suggest you react to his solo "Epiphany". Do a live show, he belted his all there.
Here's the link to which I think is one of his bests ruclips.net/video/HSmHqxyhWpM/видео.html
💜
THISSSSSSSSS
His vocals are perfect
Nope all of them
I'd highly suggest checking out their live performances of the songs "Film Out" and "On"
Yes good recommendation
Your Eyes Tell might be another great one to react to
I love the Film Out live performance on Music Blood the best!
Yes,please react.Thank you
yes the CDTV version!!
It's so nice watching someone that isn't stanning over BTS and just analyzing their voices! Don't get me wrong, I do understand everyone who knows them longer and is loving them for who they are, but this is so refreshing! Thank you for your reaction :)
That’s exactly what I’m loving about his reactions!
You are so right. I'm really enjoying this
YES! It's nice to get an unbiased opinion of their performances!
Yes, someone with technical knowledge who can pick up on their skill
Omg thank u for this comment !!!!
🙌
seokjin always get complimented by vocal coaches and trained professionals and that really really speaks volumes,his technique is actually incredible imo he doesn't get the type of appreciation and recognition he deserves,he's not even holding the title of main vocalist in the group which i think is very unfair considering how much his vocal abilities have grown since debut,hes the belter of the group now thats not something to be taken lightly
Well? To be fair, JK doesn’t want to be labeled as the “main vocalist” either….. RM is the leader because he has awesome leading abilities and he’s a genius. Jin tends to just take care of everyone. I don’t know as he wants to be labeled as the “main vocalist”. V cares by making sure everyone feels welcome, that’s why he tends to have the “soulful voice” or the golden voice. Jimin has the voice of an angel, Suga has the patience and writes a lot of their songs, I can see why he wouldn’t want the pressure of being more recognized. JHope supports everyone and is the choreographer and dance master…. Call it what you will, they just match what they do,,,, I’ve seen interviews where they try to pass the mic off to each other until someone(generally RM or V) steps forward and either takes it or gives it to somebody….they put their heart in what they do… but no one is ever truly comfortable being on stage all the time…
i know right? Jin and Jk are the best singers of bts when comes to technique. Jimin and Tae Tae have unique and gorgeous voices, but when comes to technique Jin is the best and have the best breath support, and also JK. i think if all of them took lessons with Sohyand they would improve even more.
(please, it is just my opinion, i love all of them, and their voices)
@@tiredofdumbpeople9373 Jin is not to confident back then. His shy
@@gc0009 sohyang?
I 👍
Jin's voice is amazing
"No one is trying to outshine each other, true group mentality". Yes sir, that is what they are when it comes to performances and other endeavors...
except for bts run ✌🏻
🤣🤣🤣 I love your comment on their teamwork during performance EXCEPT bts runs
Run BTS is literally so chaotic I love all the betrayals and the jokes 💜
😂😂😂 so true hilarious boys.
the b in bts stands for betrayal but that only applies in the RUNS hahahaha
They'd k word and betray each other just for snacks hahahaha but when they do things as a group, they always compliment and fills in with each other.
Jin is the belter of the group
Jimin has the most unique angelic tone
Taehyung has the deepest and most soulful voice
Jungkook has the crystal clear, stable and controlled voice
- BTS vocal line is amazing and I love them because their tones are so distinct from each other yet they compliment each other well.
Also, BTS rap line who usually raps but in here they were singing the base lines, this was a surprise but they nailed it, especially Namjoon, I love him singing the base with Jimin and Jin, that harmony was so angelic!
Love your comment
Totally agree with your comments. You have captured all d members' individual uniqueness.
Love your comment 💜 tbh i hate solo stans comments under videos like this, trying to brag about their idol🤡
simple and perfect explanation, RM voice sound so good with jin and jimin cuz he has a deep tone and it sound nice to ear hearing his voice against tenors like jin and jimin.
@@aishwaryaahirrao I don't like those comments as well. They all did amazing in this performance, it doesn't make sense to only praise one member.
I noticed that everyone just breaks into a warm smile when Jimin starts singing like that, it’s such a sincere reaction 😁 His voice is a treasure honestly AND his technic is immaculate, few people can do what he does
Ikr! That made me so emotional 🥺🥺
Very well said 💜
I loved his smile
He really does make me smile with his vocals I don't get it 😂
Ikr. It makes me sad everytime jimin think that he cant sing very well in fact lots people love his voice colour.
I love the way you talk about jin's voice because some people say he's just a pretty face
not anymore,he has been recognised for his vocal talent for a while now so its pointless bringing these comments back.
Can we praise him without those backhanded compliments 🙃
@@mono-mq2ph agree, we don't need to mention that
not really. u must be a baby army but a lot of people praise him for his voice.
I love Seokjin's high note so much!!! And Jimin's voice is really angelic and so sweet. I loved it. Thank you!
Jin with pink mic make everyone falling in love with his voice. Everyone ask who is guy with pink mic.
He’s World Wide Handsome, ya know? 🤡
“Oooooh” and rapid head nods…yes that’s Seokjin!
I love u. I see u commenting everywhere. Also a jin bias I guess 😩😍
Jin touches my soul in this.💜✌️from texas
💜
💜💜
💜💜💜
Kim seokjin's voice is what heaven feels like...
Really Jin's voice is very difficult to match. What is difficult, Jin makes it look like a simple task. Jin's vocal range is impressive, and he is rightly regarded as SILVER VOICE. I was really impressed when she sang the backing vocals for FIX YOU.
Not she(HE)
agree, Jin has the biggest range of the 7, Jimin has the highest, with JK only maybe 2 notes and a sharp behind him.
6:42 I love how you smiled and your eyes just brightened up with delight when Soekjin hit that high note! We love him, and we love those who genuinely appreciate our boys. 😊
Jin is recognized by vocal coaches and says he is a top level singer and half step above opera tenors c sharp🤩 wow!
And that's not even the highest note he can hit and his ad-libs make him so sensuous💋💋💋
Our Seokjin
JIN is the “really high c #”. He would be so pleased to hear your high praise!!
“the truth untold” is another song that maybe you could check out
although they’re all great singers, only the vocalists of the group are apart of the song
yup and it is exclusively from the vowel line, which are 4 members^^
btw #PermissiontoDance new single by #BTS releases July 9th at 1:00pm ( KST )
The truth untold live eng subs:
ruclips.net/video/q9yaP4wZ_tI/видео.html
@@imajinallthepurple I was about to post the same link :D
by SOPE 😂😂
Yes, please... It would be great if you reacted to "the truth untold"
I really like his smile when Jin hit the high note
I love it when his smile just getting sweeter at Jin's part
Jin giving him a big surprised "wow" smile, love it.
Kim Seokjin voice is so beautiful and full of emotion
Seokjin's voice is so soothing and calming.. really love it
thank you for the beautiful review! as someone who is admirable of bts but does not know much about singing, this helps me appreciate their talent so much more. It’s often overlooked in reaction videos, and even when made from a voice coach, i quite often come across over-exaggerated reactions and unnecessary, clearly-ingenuine freak outs just to impress the fanbase. This is the type of raw reaction that I needed and is much appreciated by me.
I highly suggest that you check out Film Out. It’s my favorite vocal song by BTS sung in Japanese, and I think you’d appreciate it. The most dynamic & uniquely-orchestrated song that they’ve ever made in my opinion.
Agree 100% with you :)
Jin and Suga's part😭
Jin is impressive! Knowing that he was asked to audition for the band with zero singing skills, just for his looks, for him being able to get to the high notes shows that he worked really hard. Well done Seokjin! ❤️❤️
А ведь ему ещё надо было НАУЧИТЬСЯ танцу, уникум --- всего добился своим кропотливым трудом 🥰🥰🥰
Jin is more than just the power vocals- he can handle the most delicate, emotional, gentle notes…
Jin voice wowwww I really loved his voice.
Jin's voice is like heaven
"That is hard to do because what happens with singers who aren't at HIS level" yeah Seokjin is on THAT level 🔥
i really love Seokjin voice and high note in this cover
Do you guys remember when "the guy with pink mic" bombs the twitter? That was freaking insane! So LeJINdary
" Your eyes tell" their Japanese song live will blow you away too
"Your eyes tell" is indeed a masterpiece💜
That is a beautiful one.
@@addisonblu5191 it is 🤧 i cant get enough of it i takes to to another world
@@DM-wl9vm my favorite one is this, minute 3:55 ~ ruclips.net/video/M-CcdhMGNZY/видео.html
The one where they're standing 😊
I follow bts after to listen sing Seokjin. He has a beautiful and precious voice.
Jin had the most difficult high notes and transitions at the part where he commented on the nice harmony.
I love pink mic guy's voice the most. I got goosebumps listen to him, just wow
he calls it Pink Mike. LOL.
Jin hight note so beautiful
The young man you said he's name is Park jimin, and yes he has a gentle and angelic voice, if you have time check his solo song filter,promise, lie and serendipity. Other members also have their solo song. Looking forward for your reaction about them more
And "Lie". Known as a masterpiece.
he’s a vocal king
yes he is indeed an angel with angelic voice
He is such an amazing vocalist. His voice is the hardest to control. But Park Jimin slayed the song.💜
and "Lie".
The way he called Jimin angelic
And that's when he doesn't even know his name😢😢😢😭😭😭
Of cause he is our angel
*Flips hair in yoonji style
I love how the vocal coaches and professional singers complimented Jin's amazing voice and vocal techniques.
Jin's voice is amazing ✨💖💖💖
Jin voice .... it's a voice I can listen to for his voice hours just angelic and full of emotion is just amazing
I think Jimin’s voice has magic power. My kids and husband instantly fell in love with his voices at first heard.
My husband and daughter loves Jimin's voice too! I have Jimin bias. My husband has a RM bias and my daughter a JK bias. But we all agree that Jimin sounds like an angel when he sings.
@@Mimikoo wow…I love ARMY family!!
Result of his hard working ❤️
I love vocal coach praising Jin's voice ❤
For the guy that "nailed the high C sharp", if you want to hear more of his singing, I would recommend a song called 'Epiphany' :)
well done Jin!
Jin sings with so much ease in those high notes that you sometimes realise that it’s nothing less than a miracle.
Honestly seokjin's voice never fails to make me cry a voice that tells a million stories. A voice full of emotions. He sounds sincere and honest, I can say this even without knowing the language. Guess that's why people say music transcends language
2:27 that young man's name is Jimin. Such an angelic voice. So unique.
I'm fall in love with Jin after this song 🥰😴
Me too💜
The smile when Jimin started singing 😊
Jin's voice
What I love about Jimin’s voice is that it can be soft, soothing, angelic, but it can also be so raw and emotional. Bright and crystal when he goes all the way up and mesmerizing, smooth, velvety in his lower register. This guy has it all
A whole package ❤️
A dangerous combo
So well said ❤
So very true. I feel the same way. His growl is amazing!
6:39!!! I LOVE HOW HE WAS SO AMAZED WITH JIN!!!!!!!!!!! So proud of Seokjin!!!! 💜💜💜
He appreciated Jin's vocals. And knowing that Jin before debuted he was majoring acting and no background in dancing also in singing. But the truth is that he really can.
I'm sobbing. Thank you
True
Jin is to be admired because he had no training in singing or dancing prior to joining the group he was training to be an actor. 🤗🤗🤗
truly underrated on how much he’s grown! our silver vocalist 💜💜💜🥹
Angelic is indeed the perfect word to describe jimin 💗 loved your reaction john 🥰
Kim Seokjin amazing singer 💕
I love watching people discover Kim Seokjin's belting abilities. For real though, thank you for this analysis. I really enjoyed it.
6:38 love kim seokjin high note
Literally every vocal coach and music critic comment about seokjin includes "now that's really hard to do..."
Seokjin I'm so so proud of you !!
Look at you wearing a Beatles t-shirt listening to BTS sing a Coldplay song. Now that's something 🔥
Jin shone so bright in this song (they all did), but he really showed the world what one starting out without any singing background or training can do!! He belted that high C Sharp!!
Actually went half above that high C Sharp 😃 perfect belting perfect voice ....yeah singing moon for army ...ya ya ya and absolutely for Namjoon too
*jimin* voice isnt slightly angelic, its the definition of angelic, too angelic for a male voice :D and *jin* yes he is the powerhouse vocalist and the belter of group for a reason. :D jin and jimin are the 2 members who does high parts with different approach, jimin more with soft and angelic falsettos and jin more strong and powerful belting high notes, thats their signature in group. its actually really fun digging in bts vocals. it was 4 vocalists taking the lead and the 3 rappers add harmonies.
👌🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Jin's vocals moved me to tears. The raw emotions...😭
Kim Seokjin 💜 my favorite, thank you for appreciating his voice!
Jimin has an angelic voice, indeed; Jin's hitting the high C; V's ending line is amazing; even the 3 rappers did a excellent job;
and Jungkook have an amazing and clear voice 😊 I just added this sentence to you 😘
And jungkook to mention have a stable, flawless, clear and have a wider vocal range. that's why he still the main voacalist of BTS! ☺️
@@cherryshlash5845 lmao your comment makes no sense.Just praise Jungkook if you want,but don't say things which you don't know.Taehyung has the widest vocal in the group,and is the only lyric Baritone legend from South Korea.Jungkook is known for his adlibs,runs and technique.
@@boratroop FYI even the members of bts praises JK specially V in so many interviews that JK is their main vocalist. Google it also so that you will find out LOL! 😂
@@cherryshlash5845 lmao you sound like a solo stan.Did I mention anything about the position? read my comment again.SMH.Your reasoning was wrong lol .
6:47 Hey John, That's my reaction when Seokjin hit me with those high notes.
he's amazing, great person, singer, model, actor, he is perfect .
thank you so much for this video.!!!
King vocal king visual king SEOK JIN
seokjin silver voice !
They all are so talented!!! All of them shine in their own way! Seokjin's high notes gave me goosebumps!!
I love how u started smiling while listening to Jimin (guy at 2:07)
He has a very unique voice
Seokjin always sings with such emotion
i'm addicted to hearing people praise Jin 🥰
Thank you for reacting to the boys 💜
Jin High notes are the best 😌 I love his angelic voice 💖
I'm here for Jin's " this dream .." at 6:38 🥰
I loved the combination of voices:
Jin+RM+Jimin
V+JHope
Jin nailed it
One of the things I think is most important about BTS is that they are fans of each other. They take pride in the work of the other members and what they can achieve. There is no jealousy within the group members and they want everyone to shine evenly.
Jin is the king of high notes, is amazing hear him sing ,,Seokjin the belter. His high notes always incredible...
2:07 Jimin omg 😲 he sounds like an angel
His excited to comment to jin High pitch omg my heart ♥ fluttered 😳
I still remember how the pink mic guy Jin caused a huge uproar because of his heavenly voice in "Fix you" cover! His vocals, his high notes, his belting, his mix, his technique everything is perfect! Plus, the emotions which he pours into his voice makes him the BEST VOCALIST! He is phenomenal 🙌💜❤
SEOKJIN'S vocal delivers emotions not just lyrics 👏👏💗
1:00 the one who opened the song that you said has a “beautiful” voice and a lot of “control over his vocal chords” is Jungkook, the “Main Vocalist” of BTS! 🌟💜 Please react to Jungkook’s live performance of “If You” on the tv show, “the Masked Singer” by Mel Galarza channel to hear more of his beautiful live vocals! 💜 Please also react to “Jungkook is the Main Vocalist of BTS” by Ida S, and BTS “ON Kinetic Manifesto”! 😊💜💜💜
Seokjin's voice is so beautiful
Jin has come a long way! It's so nice to see everyone praises him like this. I'm crying from happiness! LOVE BTS
Jk once said only Jin can break the ceiling with a highnote and no one of them (member)can beat it...Jin begin with nothing on music and now just wow!!!
thank you for your reaction! the one with the angelic voice is jimin. please check out their cdtv "film out" performance (:
jin jin jin 💜
Beautiful! Jimin has the highest pitch, he’s wonderful!
Kim seokjin voice is mind blowing 💜💜
Vocal coaches compliment Jin as he deserves . Proud of you my silver voice !
They are indeed a great singers, each of them have unique voices.
But Jin hitting those high notes with full of emotions while sitting down is a whole new mood💜💜
Is it only me that notice whenever a vocal coach reacts to BTS smiles when Jimin comes in ?!
Me too ..
so true.
I like angelic Jin voice, I loved it 😍
Tae is a baritone with a warm and powerful voice capable of making high or very low notes. His voice gives me comfort
I'd love to see his reaction to Jin's low note/high note switches in Dionysus
That "young man" is Jimin. He has a very soft and angelic voice but also has a lot of duality