I very much agree with your view on removal of squatter rigs. It would seem like a win for the local towing companies and clear things out for the rest of us! Thanks for the Occidental Hotel history lesson! And, as ever, thanks for taking me along!
Live in Wyoming. Often go to Bighorns. Yep, the squatting is frustrating for locals who don’t practice it. It is a problem in other mountain ranges in Wyoming too!
Thanks to both of you for coming along. And Bruce, it extends far beyond Wyoming. However, the situation in the Bighorn Mountains is the worst I have ever experienced.
i absolutely love the Big Horn Mountains!!!! I live about 20 miles to the west of the foot of these mountains in Lovell, Wyoming and have been there thousands of times over most of the past 68 years.
Marc, I agree with enforcement of the stay limits for these NF dispersed sites. Another benefit would be to more easily identify and clear out the squatter camps that leave trash, abandon rigs and destroy public lands
No doubt, Tim, although I think the trash issue is more applicable in other areas. Thankfully, most of the long-term trailer drops we saw in the Bighorns were otherwise very respectful of the land.
Thx GA for another interesting, entertaining and well produced video. I agree on enforcement of rules in our National Forest managed lands, maybe an organization like Good Sam Club could train volunteers to assist USFS in identifying where enforcenent was needed. Just a thought.FWIW I volunteered for several yrs in San Bernardino and Sequoia NFs with volunteer organizations which patrolled and maintained OHV trail systems the FS was too short handed to perform. RVing lifestyle IMHO is getting a black eye with the public with the nightly news images of cast off RVs being used as semi mobile homeless shelters in public areas without regard for laws for vagrancy or public health. JM2CW Stay Healthy
@@billdennis2993agreed, we cringe for our RV lifestyle when we see situations in the news (or in person) where dilapidated RVs are being used as homeless camps. I know that Ashley NF in northeastern Utah has been cracking down this summer on RVers overstaying the limits, and I believe that they've been using volunteers to identify violators.
Thanks for shining a light on this problem. People treat national forests as a storage place. This makes it hard on the rest of us who like boondocking.
There's no doubt that it's all over, Skip. However, the situation in the Bighorn Mountains blew us away. I've never seen it that prevalent. It seems to me that a very simple public/private partnership could easily solve the problem.
I completely agree with you regarding squatters. Seems to be the same mentality as those that leave garbage all over the place. Some folks just seem to think that rules are for others and not for them. Things would change if every trailer overstaying the "invite" was simply towed away and impounded. ...... or if not for the danger of wildfire, perhaps just put a match to them. ... I realize that is a tad extreme, but something does need to be done to get people just to follow the rules for the benefit of all... As always safe travels...
Thank you, Shawn. The risk we run of not doing anything is having the Forest Service restrict legal dispersed camping not only in the Bighorns, but in other places as well. That would be a very sad day for RVers.
Everybody i know who keeps a camper up there are very good about moving the camper every 16 days. If you do that, you are good to keep your camper on the mountain all summer long if you want... There's nothing wrong with it.
The stay limit is actually 14 days, and the move to another site must be at least 5 miles away: www.fs.usda.gov/detailfull/bighorn/recreation/?cid=stelprdb5312215 What I'm surprised to NOT see in those regulations are occupancy requirements, which we typically see in place at other National Forests. So Bighorn NF may actually be contributing to the problem.
The best part of this lifestyle is bumping into great friends along the way. So glad we could spend some time with you guys in those beautiful mountains. See you in the Q!❤
The solution doesn't need to be a complicated one, Joe, just an effective one. I really think that would work without costing the taxpayer another penny.
I absolutely agree!!! The imbeciles that squat on public lands, have such disregard for anyone else! This is out of control. Thank you for bringing this up!
We were here a couple years ago and it was noticeable. Got here yesterday, drove around for 2.5 hours trying to find a spot! Tons of unattended rigs, tents, side by side, etc everywhere! In my opinion the entire enforcement group needs to be excessed and replaced with an outside contractor. (not local, and any current employees are not eligible including the district manager) The definition of abandoned rig/equipment needs to be established at 48 hrs. Then a warning is issued via a notice on the rig. 24 hrs later a second warning. 24 hrs later third warning. 24 hrs later anything remaining is considered abandoned and becomes the property of the contractor and is removed promptly. The registered owner is fined and billed for the removal and storage costs. If the fine/removal/storage costs are not paid in 45 days, all items are sold. Any excess balance is allocated back into the forest as maint/improvement budget. Any balance due is turn over to collection. I do think that there needs to be an exception for any medical emergency but it needs to be proven. I know this seems harsh, but experience has shown the unless consequences are applied bad behavior will persist.
@@jdtravelers1361 we are 💯 behind you, as with a few modifications this is very similar (although far more specific) to what we proposed in the video. It's beyond out of hand in the Bighorns.
I'm here right now, got here on a Thursday and went down Circle Park road and Elgin and out of probably 40-50 campers I saw probably half were not occupied. I only know because I traveled down these roads for three days looking for a better spot and none of them had any awnings out, coolers, steps or vehicle tracks (after the rain). I finally found an awesome spot at the end of FSR372. After doing a ton of research it looks as if the Forest Service is trying to do something to stop this. One other crazy thing I read is after I think Sep 25th there are no stay limits until the following summer (that might have changed this year, but the material out there on this NF is very confusing). So someone could come here on Sep 25th and literally stay in that same spot for months. Thanks for the video!
Thank you, and thanks for watching! That's crazy that they drop the stay limit after the end of September. Glad to hear that you found a good spot. All of those trailers in motorhomes that I photographed I watched all week, and there was no one around. However, I too have been seeing the recent articles in the Cowboy State Daily about their efforts to step up enforcement.
MAR, excellent video as always. Great job capturing the country side and grandeur. I completely agree with you about the thoughtless inconsiderate people who take advantage of the National forest regulations. Unfortunately it seems to be a pervasive attitude of "it's all about me" with no consideration for others or the laws. Too bad it's also RVers as they give a bad name to the rest of us responsible adults. Zoe is looking good, I know you are taking great care of her, Thanks again you are a truly good person. THOMAS
Thank you very much, Thomas. Your words about irresponsible campers ring so true. As for Zoe, this was filmed a couple of weeks prior to her diagnosis. As you can see, even uncontrolled her diabetes did nothing to slow her down. 😆
Thanks for the vicarious tour of the Big Horns. Like the Green River Lakes area of the Winds, the Big Horns are on my list. Gorgeous views from the drone! Your pet peeve is my pet peeve too. Loved Longmire and still binge watch series.
We spent a little over 2 weeks in the Bighorns in September, and you are 100%. There are campers that have been left all through the NF up there. You could tell they have been there a long time as no grasses had been knocked around the campers. Very Frustrating to drive a couple thousand miles and some of the locals use it as a private campground. Excellent idea on how to solve the issue.
Thank you very much! And we appreciate you watching. It's a problem that's prevalent in many places, but I've never seen it at that scale. The simple, cost-effective solution like what we suggested in this video would go a long way to avoiding problems in the future.
Your thoughts are exactly in line with what I was thinking as you were describing the problem. Post a notice on each rig and if it's not removed in 24 hours, have a local/regional tow company impound it. It will fix the problem in short order!
Thank you for speaking up about the squatters. I agree with you 100% on everything you said and your idea of how to stop it. Thanks again for another great video.
Love Buffalo! We try to go annually. Love the Busy Bee Cafe you had in the background beyond the Occidental. I think author CJ Box also lives somewhere in the area. What a great place to go!
Great video and spot. Thank you for expressing your thoughts on public land use abuses by people. We all must respect the areas and share. I'm 100 percent with you. Enforcement!! Thank you and safe travels. Hot Springs is a place we enjoy. Looking forward to it.
Thank you very much! It seems to me that the problem would be easily solved with an effective public - private partnership where both sides win. We look forward to bringing you along the Hot Springs next week.
We really enjoyed coming down the west side of the mountains on Highway 16; very scenic! Looked like you got a great spot to camp. We did see a lot of campers on the way by there but didn’t realize that most were probably squatters. That problem needs to be taken care of. Kind of what we use to see at Ocean Cove, although you stated that they moved the trailers to a different area. We stopped to get gas in Buffalo, but we didn’t look around - we were in a hurry to get to Cody. Nice video! Ram 👍🏼👍🏾
I just spent the day in the Bighorns. It's always awesome. This time of year, the Aspens are changing colors, making it especially beautiful. I agree there are too many people just dropping campers off.
Mark I agree. Fine them and tow them. The Park Service would make money. They fine if you were fishing without a license. A campsite for legitimate being improperly occupied is a bigger loss the. One trout.
I enjoyed stopping in Buffalo over the years on our annual hunting trip to Lander each fall with dad. Memories to cherish! PS- my wife is a manager of our consessionaire district of Salida CO Each summer we have reported several dozen "homesteaders" in this area that were generally homeless folks growing their "organic farm" unfortunately dumping their RV tanks right in the ground & clotheslines up for months on end, fines add up fast like that, etc. Keep up the good work! --Davey.
Thank you Davey! And good on your wife for doing what she's been doing. Just to clarify slightly, though, this situation is a bit different. These weren't run-down rigs, and there was no proliferation of trash or nearby grow operations that we could see. The RVs were generally in very good shape and not run down. These just happened to belong to folks who don't bother bringing it back to their own driveway each Sunday.
@@GrandAdventure we see both type of setups, but yeah, it isn't fair for the locals to treat the NF as their perfect seasonal lot. We get the same response, the USFS does not have the resources to police them all. One thing, a ticket to them involves a trip to Federal Court, not to be taken lightly.
Thank you! We count Linda and Jamie of Roaming With Rosie as good friends in the RV world, so when we realized that we were only about 30 minutes apart, getting together was a no-brainer.
Mark, I agree with you about people reserving a campsite without being there. We found that while dispersed camping in Custer Gallatin National Forest in Montana this past summer. But when I went to the National Forest website and looked at the dispersed camping regulations in says nothing about 24 hour limit. It has the following. " camping or otherwise occupying a single site for over 16 consecutive days; and/or camping or otherwise occupying any number of sites for 32 cumulative days in a calendar year."
Dispersed camping regulations vary from forest to forest. Regardless of whether Bighorn National Forest has the 24-hour rule, every one of these trailers is in violation of the 14-day or 16-day rule.
I agree 100% I’m sixty and would love to do this job. Here in Utah. I have went to the forest ranger station in Kamas and complained countless times. They want me to take pictures and send to them. Which I have done. And then watched them drive right past
Another great video! 100% agree on enforcing regulations on squatters. Our home base is on the Texas gulf coast and squatter’s often leave RV’s on the beach. We have a full-time person that tracks them and has the RV’s removed from the beach.
Thanks Matt! So I'm guessing that your area is essentially practicing what we suggested in the video? i.e., one guy to ticket/fine and private tow companies to haul away?
Buffalo has been my favorite town since I first visited in 1994. I should have bought land there when it was affordable but life here in Kentucky kept me very occupied. We are heading out that way tomorrow morning to do a little camping in the Bighorns. Two days out and two days back (hard driving) two and a half each way if I dont push it.
Will be interesting to see Hot Springs SD. When we were in that area we were waiting for a spot at Fire hose campground near Hill City. The only place we could find was Sheps Canyon Reserve near Hot Springs. Was a bit out of the way but what a stunning drive. What a beautiful spot you had.
We stayed on the opposite side of the lake in Angostura Recreation Area during next week's episode, but we did get our cameras over to Sheps Canyon, too.
We absolutely loved Wyoming and I can’t wait to return. Thanks for finding another great boondocking spot 7,900 ‘ means cooler temps 🔥 😣 had to show the dead mouse? 😆 That’s terrible that RVs are basically squatting- they should be towed away Fines. Good idea. And same for towing company. Take pictures of the license plates and publish them Always a plus to end a hike with a lake What a cool town. Love the murals. Loved the Longmire show Wow. Bullet holes Sorry to hear about the squatters. I feel the same way about people who book state park sites, never show up and never cancel. Not fair to others looking for a site. Still, glad you had such a great time 🤗
Thanks you two! This was a spectacular spot. The Bighorns are full of them, with ample relatively flat terrain at high elevation to avoid the summertime heat.
Marc, I completely agree with you on enforcement. Every time I hear how "we don't have the manpower"... what I really hear is "we do not want to bother because it is not pissing us off enough to do something about it". A tow company could make a complete killing towing and impounding at no cost to the whatever government entity oversees wherever that is. All the have to do is pick up a phone and dial towing company xyz who would be happy to oblige. Unrelated to this... I remember in Lake Placid NY... like 15 years ago when the minivan got stuck trying to get out of the drive way in waist deep snow... tow guy with his winch made $450 for 5 minutes of work. He said he and his wife come there for 1 season and RV travel the rest of the year. Clearly towing pays the big bucks...
As a guy whose professional life includes paying tow companies to clean up the mess after a catastrophic trucking accident, I can verify that what you say is true.
We have also noticed this . If the forest service even took a day to drive around and look they would surely see it . I just hope they don't just close areas down and do the right thing !
I completely agree! Three years ago we noticed the squatter problem there. It and Strawberry Reservoir BLM land in UT are a couple of the worst we’ve seen for this truly bad behavior! Good thoughts regarding a solution!!👍
@@moore_2_explore it's been more than 3 years for us at Strawberry. I think the last time I was there was four years ago . Being from Utah, and as folks who winter in Utah in our RV each year, by spring we're usually ready to beeline out of the Beehive State.
Hi Marc. I've been watching your videos for a while. We live in Buffalo, so what a pleasant surprise to see you were here. Wished we would have known as we would have really enjoyed meeting you guys. Sadly, many area residents do treat the forest service land like a summer cabin. It's been quite the issue this year. It's "always been this way," so there is a sense of entitlement. I'm not sure we'll see any meaningful enforcement even after promises that it would be stepped up. Anyway this is a beautiful area and you can still get away from it all and have a wonderful experience. Safe travels!
Thank you very much! We love it when we hear from folks who are local to the area that we're visiting. Reading the recent articles in the Cowboy State Daily that have coincidentally published since we edited this video, it seems there is a fire growing under the feet of the Bighorn National Forest to do something.
@@GrandAdventurekeep it up. I’ll be camped along the mighty Mississip this Wednesday. Trailer frame repairs all done and ready to roll. Hope to catch your premiere.
We camped in the national forest campgrounds couple times this past summer in the northern part west of Sheridan. Lott's of boon dockers/ homesteaders up there, and unattended ones also. Talked with a ranger about it and he indicated that they were having a problem with theft, stolen generators, etc.., he also mentioned they don't really have the personal to enforce the 14 day limit either. The reserved sites in the forest service camp grounds are mostly booked, however have seen plenty of empty sites because people who reserve them don't show up. Seems where ever there is some kinda road up there your gonna see campers parked off the road a bit. Wonder sometimes how some of the big rigs can be maneuvered in some of the spots.
All too true, Gerry. The thing that makes the Bighorns so attractive for camping is that it's high elevation land for cool air in summer, yet there's an enormous amount of relatively flat land criss-crossed by numerous decent forest roads. It's the perfect combination.
Hire a retired guy (I volunteer!) for the summer. Like a camp host. He would be closer than a ranger and would be able to document that a trailer is unoccupied. I saw some of that near Stanley and the Sawtooths. If it is not addressed then we'll get squatters and homeless taking over will all the associated problems. Look at California and Oregon.
One of the times I was up there it was during hunting season so I understand there was a lot of competition but it seemed at the point people didn't consider the land to be public. It was like they carved out their own homestead (like you stated) and took ownership of it. There is NO WAY the forest service can't do something about this. So as long as they don't do anything about it, it will continue to happen and get worse. This is really bad out west where the national forests are close to cities like in Washington and Oregon....it's just a dump! For this particular case contact Harriet Hageman. From what I have seen and know about her she is a very good representative. This really has to stop. Thank you for bringing this up and using your voice to help keep all these lands public and open.
Thank you Nigel! My biggest concern is that if the situation continues unchecked, the Forest Service will simply start restricting legal dispersed camping even further. That outcome does no one any good.
@@GrandAdventure Yes, you are absolutely right. There are a lot of malicious "environmental" groups that just salivate at moments like this to lobby to shut areas down. They are doing it all over the Moab, Owyhees, Gila, etc. They use this as the excuse to shut these places down. If rules would just be followed by the people and enforced when they aren't we wouldn't be having these problems. Thanks again. Safe travels.
Interesting to see this video at this time in my travels…I’ve looked at the Bighorns on maps and been amazed at the apparent abundance of dispersed camping. Now I hear your piece of the picture, plus I’ve also heard the mountains are a major draw for rock climbers (maybe on the west side near Tensleep?) Maybe it’s not the perfect place for me but I’ll still check it out. But first, funny, I’m headed to Hot Springs!
Thanks Marc... Nice area for sure and great review of the highlights. The last time I passed through Wyoming, it just seemed so lonely. That was back in 1999. Those rolling hills with nothing but grass and weeds. I left a short message over at you web page. Gord
You should start putting gps coordinates in the videos as well to find these locations better. Edit: nope, i'm an idiot. I didn't notice it earlier or maybe it didn't load properly on my end. It's right there in the "for more information," the first link.
Another great site. Too bad low rent people take advantage of the system. I find a similar situation with my local county park. The snowbirds rent out sites for weeks then roll into the park whenever.... I'll be in a fully reserved park that is half empty. Thanks GA
Likewise! It was terrific running into you and Shelly, Michael, and hopefully the next time we'll have more time to get to know one another a little better. Safe travels, and hope to see you out there.
Here's an idea, go fund me account to contact the local owner that they have a number of days to come get their trailer. If not the towing to come get the rig, notify forest service, local po po and have em come get their rig from the local impound. Simple, and I'm sure a number of $5 donations could build up the funds pretty quick. Although we would need someone to handle the rig funds appropriately.
We have enjoyed Buffalo and Longmire days a few times. Lots of fun. Love the area. Need to do some boondocking sometime. Your solution to the problem sounds good to me. They don’t want to do anything, just make excuses. I fear they will instead make more restrictive uses to lands in the future. I hope I’m wrong. I really do. More regulations 😕😞
Another great video! I found your comment on people leaving their RVs at the same spot for an extended time very interesting. I observed the same thing when boondoocking in the Bighorn mountains back in Aug, 2015. In fact, my blog actually commented on it: "I saw trailers that were already spotted but nobody was around them while I was here. Guess people just leave them there for a while and use them when they want." So, what you saw has been going on for years. BTW, I was camped at 44.285080,-106.961580. Maybe close to you, based on your comments of distance from Buffalo.
Ralph, we were several miles Southeast of where you were, on the opposite side of US 16. Yes, this has been a prevailing problem in many national forests for quite some time now. It was just worse in the Bighorns than I have ever seen anywhere.
I agree with your view on removing squatters. I have seen the same thing through out Wyoming, it's not just the Bighorns. Talking with some of the local's that partake in this activity it becomes apparent that this is done for a reason. The reason is to keep out of state travelers out of their ( resident Wyoming's) local National forests. The Wyoming residents are not fond of the majority of the out of state visitors (but they like the money they bring) so this there way to discourage their stay in the area and force them to just move on. Local authorities are most times complicit in this view, so they turn a blind eye to this squatter behavior. I have been going to Wyoming for many years now and see the same trailers parked in the same spots in the national forests where I visit year after year all summer long. For the trailers that are made to move after the 14 days, a friend will show up with his trailer and the two will simply swap sites to continue tying up the national forest sites. Good luck with spreading your view point of the squatter issue, but I'm here to tell you this has been going on for years now and won't stop as long as you have out of state people wanting to visit Yellow stone and the Teton's and need a place to camp with their trailers coming to and from the parks.
If that's the case, Wayne, that's a different motivation than we've encountered elsewhere. It's a substantial issue in our home state of Utah as well, where at least one National Forest - Ashley - has finally been taking steps to eliminate the behavior. However, in Utah it's done to secure (and hold) a spot, and has nothing to do with in-state/out-of-state rivalry.
@@GrandAdventureThe squatting practice in Wyoming is also used to hold and secure a spot. I was just parroting the view point of the locals in the area I frequent and I have viewed the squatting abuse first hand. Wyoming residents are a different breed of cat, they live in a very unpopulated state for a reason and they find ways to keep their favorite spots to them selves.
Squatters are the demise of first come first served. In the Unita Mountains of Utah, it has got so bad that we don't even bother because it is the same campers in the same spots weekend after weekend. The rangers don't care because they are getting their money week after week. I'm all for raising the rates so squatters would have to shell out big buck to prevent anyone else from having a chance to use the nice spots. Pretty soon camping in the Unitas will only be for squatters.
That's sad to hear, Marv. I know that for dispersed camping, Ashley NF in the western Uintas started enforcing their 14-day stay limit this year, and impounding the RVs of violators.
Did you consider that he and his offspring would've chewed through thousands of dollars of wire damage and pissed throughout my insulation if I didn't? Have you heard of hantavirus?
I agree, it is time to stop the "we don't have the manpower excuses" and enforce the laws now!! Since when do we not abide by the rules and the laws?? It would appear if they aren't going to enforce these laws then their services are not needed!
Going back to 2020 the "homesteading" a spot has been true. Almost every really desirable spot has a "permanent" camper on that site. People may not be there but the camper, trailers with ATV's, large propane tank,... setting for the next weekends activities. Some of the rigs were even skirted. 1. The park service needs to understand that allowing one obvious violation of the rules influences some to disregard ALL the rules. 2. Your solution would work and pay for it self.
People who live in the area are the owners of the public land. Those are locals and most people in the area don't have the money or quite frankly a good enough vehicle to tow the trailer up and down everytime they want to go up the mountain. Most of these are retired people living on social security, and this is their only retirement. So don't judge, just pick another spot.
@@MountainLife86 frankly, that's complete and utter bullshit. Every American owns that land, whether they're from Wyoming or Maine. No one gets a pass on blatantly violating regulations, either, whether they're from Wyoming or Maine. The mindset you espouse is precisely the problem, and will ultimately lead to the prohibition on boondocking in that area
@@MountainLife86 that's not state land. That's federal land. Neither you, nor anyone else has a right to monopolize it. That's not "how (you) do it," it's a clear violation of USFS regulation. As a Utahn I own that land every bit as much as you do.
That, we don't know the answer to. However, the forest behind our camper was clearly secondary growth following an earlier logging, as all of the trees there were younger and approximately the same height/diameter/age.
I’m not sure Why the locals are dropping but I could guess … NO spots when they get to go when they get time off which can be tricky. I was lucky I started camping in early 70’s in Wyoming.. Then I got married and had a family the only thing we spent scraped together money on was Camping.. hunting and hiking. We don’t have the big factory jobs with benefits like paid sick or vacation time off. If you got sick or hurt “ you worked anyway” Usually lower wages to get by on.. So I get it. We are usually quite friendly here so just park your rig next to the left rig and put a note on your neighbors rig..When they get there offer a friendly wave and maybe a conversation I bet they would be fine. I hope folks are not trashing our campgrounds or highways because if I see them do that I’ll get a plate number and report it. Try to respect others and be creative with solutions..
Have a safe trip! We didn't look in the areas somewhat close to Sheridan, so regrettably we don't have any specific suggestions. Just grab topo and MVUM maps and happy hunting!
The problem is that the folks who leave trailers on USFS land are locals who know the USFS ranger and the tow company operator. These people want to keep YOU and ME out of the forest.
This is one of the few episodes where she's actually visible, Joyce. Generally speaking, she's an intensely private person who's adamantly against appearing on camera.
Hey, my backyard! Glad you found it as beautiful as I do. You ever make it out this way again, let my wife and I know. We'd love to show you some of the lesser-known sights and take you out for a meal. And my folks usually spend a couple months each year boondocked up off Elgin Park...even though they live in Buffalo they love to get out of town for a while!
Forest service authorities wont take care of the matter of squatters in the National forest land....They will simply not allow the camping period...As usual, greedy folks will ruin it for everyone else just like it always happens....Travel safe, be well....
I agree that that is the eventual result if nothing is done. However, I firmly believe that we don't have to get that far if we take common sense measures to enforce existing regulations via an effective private/public partnership like we've described that won't cost taxpayers a penny.
I've had similar experiences where I couldn't find a decent site for our camper and then went to a NFS Campground got a FCFS Site nearby for $15/night and it was 60% empty caused by the other problem campers face. NO SHOWS! it seems it one extreme to another? Selfish people with poor camping etiquette...
That's of course another issue, Wesley, but another one to be concerned about. However, that's one that creates much less impetus to solve. The National Forest campgrounds are typically operated by concessionaires under a lease, and as long as they get paid for the campsite they don't care if anyone is actually occupying it or not. In fact, I would speculate that they'd almost prefer that the site remain unoccupied but paid for, for that means less work for the company when the camper departs.
JT, I understand the argument about manpower and resources. However, as explained in our "solution" it need not cost the USFS anything to enforce the regulations -- the fines generated easily pay one enforcement person's salary, while towing and impound revenue gives the tow companies the financial incentive to get involved. Together, they clean up the problem and discourage the practice going forward. It's a win-win.
@@GrandAdventure I agree with you. They always seem to have plenty of man power to chase ATV's, UTV's, motorcycles & snowmobiles around to make sure they have an ORV (Off Road Vehicle) sticker on their machine. They have the manpower & resources to address this problem, they're just lazy!
Much more to the "abandoned" camper issue. The stay limit and how far you have to move is absurd. Moreover, Bidenomics have forced many to have to camp on National Forest lands. It is safer than the streets of the big cities. However, Forest officials are treating these displaced folks like common criminals and are not beyond making threats, or getting downright nasty. There are always two sides to a story. Some of those abandoned units are not abandoned at all, the Floristas just think that. So there's my vent.
And your comments are welcome, Thom. Let me expand a bit, because with all due respect I think we are talking about two different situations. Those trailers in the Bighorns were not abandoned. They were being used on weekends, perhaps every few weeks. The vast majority were in excellent condition, and no one was living in them full time. For most, no one was visible anywhere near them during the entire week we were there. There were no trucks to accompany the trailers. People just weren't bringing them home to their own driveways when not being used.
I very much agree with your view on removal of squatter rigs. It would seem like a win for the local towing companies and clear things out for the rest of us! Thanks for the Occidental Hotel history lesson! And, as ever, thanks for taking me along!
Live in Wyoming. Often go to Bighorns. Yep, the squatting is frustrating for locals who don’t practice it. It is a problem in other mountain ranges in Wyoming too!
Thanks to both of you for coming along. And Bruce, it extends far beyond Wyoming. However, the situation in the Bighorn Mountains is the worst I have ever experienced.
i absolutely love the Big Horn Mountains!!!! I live about 20 miles to the west of the foot of these mountains in Lovell, Wyoming and have been there thousands of times over most of the past 68 years.
We certainly know Lovell, Janet. You leave in a wonderful part of this country.
OMG so sick of squatter rigs. Yes happy to lend my voice to this.
And your voice is welcome, Stephen. Thank you.
Marc, I agree with enforcement of the stay limits for these NF dispersed sites. Another benefit would be to more easily identify and clear out the squatter camps that leave trash, abandon rigs and destroy public lands
No doubt, Tim, although I think the trash issue is more applicable in other areas. Thankfully, most of the long-term trailer drops we saw in the Bighorns were otherwise very respectful of the land.
Thx GA for another interesting, entertaining and well produced video. I agree on enforcement of rules in our National Forest managed lands, maybe an organization like Good Sam Club could train volunteers to assist USFS in identifying where enforcenent was needed. Just a thought.FWIW I volunteered for several yrs in San Bernardino and Sequoia NFs with volunteer organizations which patrolled and maintained OHV trail systems the FS was too short handed to perform. RVing lifestyle IMHO is getting a black eye with the public with the nightly news images of cast off RVs being used as semi mobile homeless shelters in public areas without regard for laws for vagrancy or public health. JM2CW Stay Healthy
@@billdennis2993agreed, we cringe for our RV lifestyle when we see situations in the news (or in person) where dilapidated RVs are being used as homeless camps. I know that Ashley NF in northeastern Utah has been cracking down this summer on RVers overstaying the limits, and I believe that they've been using volunteers to identify violators.
Thanks for shining a light on this problem. People treat national forests as a storage place. This makes it hard on the rest of us who like boondocking.
It sure does. Thanks so much for watching and commenting!
Love your solution to the problem Mark. Something needs to be done, we encounter it a lot!
There's no doubt that it's all over, Skip. However, the situation in the Bighorn Mountains blew us away. I've never seen it that prevalent. It seems to me that a very simple public/private partnership could easily solve the problem.
Same here in Arizona on NF land and State land. People sit up for the summer and hunting season.
Indeed Ed, it's common in many areas. Sad to hear, however.
I agree with enforcing homesteading
I completely agree with you regarding squatters. Seems to be the same mentality as those that leave garbage all over the place. Some folks just seem to think that rules are for others and not for them. Things would change if every trailer overstaying the "invite" was simply towed away and impounded. ...... or if not for the danger of wildfire, perhaps just put a match to them. ... I realize that is a tad extreme, but something does need to be done to get people just to follow the rules for the benefit of all... As always safe travels...
Thank you, Shawn. The risk we run of not doing anything is having the Forest Service restrict legal dispersed camping not only in the Bighorns, but in other places as well. That would be a very sad day for RVers.
Everybody i know who keeps a camper up there are very good about moving the camper every 16 days. If you do that, you are good to keep your camper on the mountain all summer long if you want... There's nothing wrong with it.
The stay limit is actually 14 days, and the move to another site must be at least 5 miles away:
www.fs.usda.gov/detailfull/bighorn/recreation/?cid=stelprdb5312215
What I'm surprised to NOT see in those regulations are occupancy requirements, which we typically see in place at other National Forests. So Bighorn NF may actually be contributing to the problem.
The best part of this lifestyle is bumping into great friends along the way. So glad we could spend some time with you guys in those beautiful mountains. See you in the Q!❤
We had a terrific time with the two of you in Buffalo. See ya soon!
I'm with you Marc and the tow co. would love it.
The solution doesn't need to be a complicated one, Joe, just an effective one. I really think that would work without costing the taxpayer another penny.
I absolutely agree!!! The imbeciles that squat on public lands, have such disregard for anyone else! This is out of control. Thank you for bringing this up!
Our pleasure. After witnessing the situation in the Bighorns, there was no way for us to avoid the elephant in the room in this video.
Love Hot Springs! What a great small town! Watch the construction this year!
Yeah, no kidding! I actually pulled the trailer through that construction on the way into town. Some of those lanes were crazy tight!
We were here a couple years ago and it was noticeable. Got here yesterday, drove around for 2.5 hours trying to find a spot! Tons of unattended rigs, tents, side by side, etc everywhere! In my opinion the entire enforcement group needs to be excessed and replaced with an outside contractor. (not local, and any current employees are not eligible including the district manager) The definition of abandoned rig/equipment needs to be established at 48 hrs. Then a warning is issued via a notice on the rig. 24 hrs later a second warning. 24 hrs later third warning. 24 hrs later anything remaining is considered abandoned and becomes the property of the contractor and is removed promptly. The registered owner is fined and billed for the removal and storage costs. If the fine/removal/storage costs are not paid in 45 days, all items are sold. Any excess balance is allocated back into the forest as maint/improvement budget. Any balance due is turn over to collection. I do think that there needs to be an exception for any medical emergency but it needs to be proven. I know this seems harsh, but experience has shown the unless consequences are applied bad behavior will persist.
@@jdtravelers1361 we are 💯 behind you, as with a few modifications this is very similar (although far more specific) to what we proposed in the video. It's beyond out of hand in the Bighorns.
@@GrandAdventure Bad part of being retired... too much time available to stew! Stay safe guys.
@@jdtravelers1361 same to you, but "retired" sounds pretty darned good to me right about now.
I'm here right now, got here on a Thursday and went down Circle Park road and Elgin and out of probably 40-50 campers I saw probably half were not occupied. I only know because I traveled down these roads for three days looking for a better spot and none of them had any awnings out, coolers, steps or vehicle tracks (after the rain). I finally found an awesome spot at the end of FSR372. After doing a ton of research it looks as if the Forest Service is trying to do something to stop this. One other crazy thing I read is after I think Sep 25th there are no stay limits until the following summer (that might have changed this year, but the material out there on this NF is very confusing). So someone could come here on Sep 25th and literally stay in that same spot for months. Thanks for the video!
Thank you, and thanks for watching! That's crazy that they drop the stay limit after the end of September. Glad to hear that you found a good spot. All of those trailers in motorhomes that I photographed I watched all week, and there was no one around. However, I too have been seeing the recent articles in the Cowboy State Daily about their efforts to step up enforcement.
Awesome video!
Thank you as always, Michelle, for being such a tremendous supporter of the channel. We couldn't ask for better friends.
Thank you I really enjoyed this
We're very happy to hear that, Joanne. Thank you very much for watching!
Another great video Marc. Thank you for all the information and history you share about the areas you camp in . Be safe and God Bless .
Thank you John, and same from us to you and yours!
MAR, excellent video as always. Great job capturing the country side and grandeur. I completely agree with you about the thoughtless inconsiderate people who take advantage of the National forest regulations. Unfortunately it seems to be a pervasive attitude of "it's all about me" with no consideration for others or the laws. Too bad it's also RVers as they give a bad name to the rest of us responsible adults.
Zoe is looking good, I know you are taking great care of her, Thanks again you are a truly good person. THOMAS
Thank you very much, Thomas. Your words about irresponsible campers ring so true. As for Zoe, this was filmed a couple of weeks prior to her diagnosis. As you can see, even uncontrolled her diabetes did nothing to slow her down. 😆
I agree with you 💯. It's pretty sad when people just don't care anymore and just think of themselves.
Thank you Deb!
Thanks for the vicarious tour of the Big Horns. Like the Green River Lakes area of the Winds, the Big Horns are on my list. Gorgeous views from the drone! Your pet peeve is my pet peeve too. Loved Longmire and still binge watch series.
Thank you John! One of these days we'll have to take a crack at watching Longmire.
Marc. I agree with you comments about people taking over public land. Great vid. I need to get back to the bighorns.
Thanks so much MGA!
We spent a little over 2 weeks in the Bighorns in September, and you are 100%. There are campers that have been left all through the NF up there. You could tell they have been there a long time as no grasses had been knocked around the campers. Very Frustrating to drive a couple thousand miles and some of the locals use it as a private campground. Excellent idea on how to solve the issue.
Thank you very much! And we appreciate you watching. It's a problem that's prevalent in many places, but I've never seen it at that scale. The simple, cost-effective solution like what we suggested in this video would go a long way to avoiding problems in the future.
What a cinematography my friend, this was masterfully put together! Shots are brilliant!👏👏
Thank you Ervin!
Thanks Marc.
Our pleasure, Joe. Thanks as always for coming along!
Your thoughts are exactly in line with what I was thinking as you were describing the problem. Post a notice on each rig and if it's not removed in 24 hours, have a local/regional tow company impound it. It will fix the problem in short order!
Yep, we firmly believe that it would.
We absolutely loved that area!! We took US 16 on our route from Devils Tower area to Ten Sleep!
It's a gorgeous drive, isn't it? And with so much relatively flat high-elevation land, it also provides some amazing camping opportunities.
Thank you for speaking up about the squatters. I agree with you 100% on everything you said and your idea of how to stop it. Thanks again for another great video.
Thank you very much! It just seems like such a simple and cost-effective solution.
Good job buddy. You have a good narrative voice. Be safe out there
Thank you so much, Brian, and you do the same!
genial
Oh I must expand my horizons and stay awhile. ♡
Longmire was actually filmed in my little town, Las Vegas, New Mexico.
It's a great place to visit! Thank you very much for watching, Julia.
Great video Marc! We love WY mountains, beautiful camping spot there! Thanks for the adventure. Best Wishes!
Thank you, Joyce! We're tickled to hear that you enjoyed this one.
Love Buffalo! We try to go annually. Love the Busy Bee Cafe you had in the background beyond the Occidental.
I think author CJ Box also lives somewhere in the area.
What a great place to go!
It sure is! We fell in love with the Bighorns back in 2018, and it felt so good to finally return.
Such a gorgeous area, I really want to spend some time there in the future. Suzane
That's definitely a worthy goal, for it's a beautiful area to spend time in.
Great video and spot. Thank you for expressing your thoughts on public land use abuses by people. We all must respect the areas and share. I'm 100 percent with you. Enforcement!! Thank you and safe travels. Hot Springs is a place we enjoy. Looking forward to it.
Thank you very much! It seems to me that the problem would be easily solved with an effective public - private partnership where both sides win. We look forward to bringing you along the Hot Springs next week.
We really enjoyed coming down the west side of the mountains on Highway 16; very scenic!
Looked like you got a great spot to camp.
We did see a lot of campers on the way by there but didn’t realize that most were probably squatters. That problem needs to be taken care of. Kind of what we use to see at Ocean Cove, although you stated that they moved the trailers to a different area.
We stopped to get gas in Buffalo, but we didn’t look around - we were in a hurry to get to Cody.
Nice video!
Ram
👍🏼👍🏾
Thanks you two! Did you notice, you're now actually current on our episodes? 😁
Yes! 😅
It will be easier once I retire!!
Ram
I just spent the day in the Bighorns. It's always awesome. This time of year, the Aspens are changing colors, making it especially beautiful. I agree there are too many people just dropping campers off.
It must be gorgeous up there right now with the yellows breaking out.
Mark I agree. Fine them and tow them. The Park Service would make money. They fine if you were fishing without a license. A campsite for legitimate being improperly occupied is a bigger loss the. One trout.
I enjoyed stopping in Buffalo over the years on our annual hunting trip to Lander each fall with dad. Memories to cherish! PS- my wife is a manager of our consessionaire district of Salida CO Each summer we have reported several dozen "homesteaders" in this area that were generally homeless folks growing their "organic farm" unfortunately dumping their RV tanks right in the ground & clotheslines up for months on end, fines add up fast like that, etc. Keep up the good work! --Davey.
Thank you Davey! And good on your wife for doing what she's been doing. Just to clarify slightly, though, this situation is a bit different. These weren't run-down rigs, and there was no proliferation of trash or nearby grow operations that we could see. The RVs were generally in very good shape and not run down. These just happened to belong to folks who don't bother bringing it back to their own driveway each Sunday.
@@GrandAdventure we see both type of setups, but yeah, it isn't fair for the locals to treat the NF as their perfect seasonal lot. We get the same response, the USFS does not have the resources to police them all. One thing, a ticket to them involves a trip to Federal Court, not to be taken lightly.
I agree with you on those campers being ledt.but I would fill them with mice first!
😆
Very entertaining video!
Thank you, Mitzi! We enjoyed having you at the premiere tonight.
Love Longmire!
One of these days I need to watch an episode.
Great video Marc. Cool you went with Roaming with Rosie as well.
Thank you! We count Linda and Jamie of Roaming With Rosie as good friends in the RV world, so when we realized that we were only about 30 minutes apart, getting together was a no-brainer.
Hope to see ya'll in QZ 24
@@sunnydaysahead2398 Hope to see you there!
Mark, I agree with you about people reserving a campsite without being there. We found that while dispersed camping in Custer Gallatin National Forest in Montana this past summer. But when I went to the National Forest website and looked at the dispersed camping regulations in says nothing about 24 hour limit. It has the following.
" camping or otherwise occupying a single site for over 16 consecutive days; and/or
camping or otherwise occupying any number of sites for 32 cumulative days in a calendar year."
Dispersed camping regulations vary from forest to forest. Regardless of whether Bighorn National Forest has the 24-hour rule, every one of these trailers is in violation of the 14-day or 16-day rule.
I agree 100% I’m sixty and would love to do this job. Here in Utah. I have went to the forest ranger station in Kamas and complained countless times. They want me to take pictures and send to them. Which I have done. And then watched them drive right past
It's very frustrating, isn't it, Rick?
Another great video! 100% agree on enforcing regulations on squatters. Our home base is on the Texas gulf coast and squatter’s often leave RV’s on the beach. We have a full-time person that tracks them and has the RV’s removed from the beach.
Thanks Matt! So I'm guessing that your area is essentially practicing what we suggested in the video? i.e., one guy to ticket/fine and private tow companies to haul away?
Amen, bro. I totally agree! BTW, thx, Mark for the great channel and wonderful photography!
Thanks for watching, Jerry! Without our viewers like you, Grand Adventure would be nothing.
Been to the Bighorn Mountains many times. Buffalo is a great town.
Yes it is, Phil. Thanks for watching!
Without a doubt, great way of escaping the summer heat at the lower elevations and the great change of scenery it provides.
No doubt at all!
Buffalo has been my favorite town since I first visited in 1994. I should have bought land there when it was affordable but life here in Kentucky kept me very occupied. We are heading out that way tomorrow morning to do a little camping in the Bighorns. Two days out and two days back (hard driving) two and a half each way if I dont push it.
Wow! That's one heck of a haul. Safe travels, and enjoy.
@@GrandAdventure Lots of miles over the years but when you have wanderlust what else can you do.
@@wayawolf1967 we know a little something about that. 😆
I'll take care of it in a week or two. I'd be happy to do it
Appreciate your comments about long term rvs in the Big Horns. I also enjoyed seeing your dog off a leash.
Thank you. The situation up there is the worst that we have observed. And Zoe gets off leash time any chance we have to give it to her.
Will be interesting to see Hot Springs SD. When we were in that area we were waiting for a spot at Fire hose campground near Hill City. The only place we could find was Sheps Canyon Reserve near Hot Springs. Was a bit out of the way but what a stunning drive. What a beautiful spot you had.
We stayed on the opposite side of the lake in Angostura Recreation Area during next week's episode, but we did get our cameras over to Sheps Canyon, too.
We absolutely loved Wyoming and I can’t wait to return.
Thanks for finding another great boondocking spot
7,900 ‘ means cooler temps 🔥
😣 had to show the dead mouse? 😆
That’s terrible that RVs are basically squatting- they should be towed away
Fines. Good idea. And same for towing company.
Take pictures of the license plates and publish them
Always a plus to end a hike with a lake
What a cool town. Love the murals. Loved the Longmire show
Wow. Bullet holes
Sorry to hear about the squatters. I feel the same way about people who book state park sites, never show up and never cancel. Not fair to others looking for a site.
Still, glad you had such a great time 🤗
Thanks you two! This was a spectacular spot. The Bighorns are full of them, with ample relatively flat terrain at high elevation to avoid the summertime heat.
Marc, I completely agree with you on enforcement. Every time I hear how "we don't have the manpower"... what I really hear is "we do not want to bother because it is not pissing us off enough to do something about it". A tow company could make a complete killing towing and impounding at no cost to the whatever government entity oversees wherever that is. All the have to do is pick up a phone and dial towing company xyz who would be happy to oblige.
Unrelated to this... I remember in Lake Placid NY... like 15 years ago when the minivan got stuck trying to get out of the drive way in waist deep snow... tow guy with his winch made $450 for 5 minutes of work. He said he and his wife come there for 1 season and RV travel the rest of the year. Clearly towing pays the big bucks...
As a guy whose professional life includes paying tow companies to clean up the mess after a catastrophic trucking accident, I can verify that what you say is true.
We have also noticed this . If the forest service even took a day to drive around and look they would surely see it .
I just hope they don't just close areas down and do the right thing !
Yes Bob, that's our biggest concern. It need not come to that if they'd simply enforce the existing regulations.
I completely agree! Three years ago we noticed the squatter problem there. It and Strawberry Reservoir BLM land in UT are a couple of the worst we’ve seen for this truly bad behavior! Good thoughts regarding a solution!!👍
Thank you! Has Strawberry gotten that bad?
@@GrandAdventure it was 3 years ago when we were there. Maybe it’s better??? Same year we were in the Bighorns which were bad then too.
@@moore_2_explore it's been more than 3 years for us at Strawberry. I think the last time I was there was four years ago . Being from Utah, and as folks who winter in Utah in our RV each year, by spring we're usually ready to beeline out of the Beehive State.
I'm with you on the enforcement of the squatters. Great video. Zoe was having a great time in and out of the water. Thanks Don
Glad you enjoyed it, Don. Thank you!
Hi Marc. I've been watching your videos for a while. We live in Buffalo, so what a pleasant surprise to see you were here. Wished we would have known as we would have really enjoyed meeting you guys. Sadly, many area residents do treat the forest service land like a summer cabin. It's been quite the issue this year. It's "always been this way," so there is a sense of entitlement. I'm not sure we'll see any meaningful enforcement even after promises that it would be stepped up. Anyway this is a beautiful area and you can still get away from it all and have a wonderful experience. Safe travels!
Thank you very much! We love it when we hear from folks who are local to the area that we're visiting. Reading the recent articles in the Cowboy State Daily that have coincidentally published since we edited this video, it seems there is a fire growing under the feet of the Bighorn National Forest to do something.
👍 👍👍
Thank you Dave!
@@GrandAdventurekeep it up. I’ll be camped along the mighty Mississip this Wednesday. Trailer frame repairs all done and ready to roll. Hope to catch your premiere.
@@daveb.8692 sweet! Congrats on regaining a functional frame.
We camped in the national forest campgrounds couple times this past summer in the northern part west of Sheridan. Lott's of boon dockers/ homesteaders up there, and unattended ones also. Talked with a ranger about it and he indicated that they were having a problem with theft, stolen generators, etc.., he also mentioned they don't really have the personal to enforce the 14 day limit either.
The reserved sites in the forest service camp grounds are mostly booked, however have seen plenty of empty sites because people who reserve them don't show up. Seems where ever there is some kinda road up there your gonna see campers parked off the road a bit. Wonder sometimes how some of the big rigs can be maneuvered in some of the spots.
All too true, Gerry. The thing that makes the Bighorns so attractive for camping is that it's high elevation land for cool air in summer, yet there's an enormous amount of relatively flat land criss-crossed by numerous decent forest roads. It's the perfect combination.
11/23 I agree on the campers who leave their rv’s for extended periods. I know many times in Colorado they are hunters, no matter, it is wrong
Thank you as always for watching and for commenting, Gail!
Just left Buffalo this morning
We were only a few weeks off, Norm!
We were in flaming gorge WY this summer. Same problem they has beach front campsites for the summer and no enforcement of the stay limit.
That makes us very, very sad to hear.
Hire a retired guy (I volunteer!) for the summer. Like a camp host. He would be closer than a ranger and would be able to document that a trailer is unoccupied. I saw some of that near Stanley and the Sawtooths. If it is not addressed then we'll get squatters and homeless taking over will all the associated problems. Look at California and Oregon.
That's exactly what we're suggesting, Eric. These places will soon be closed to all if something isn't done.
One of the times I was up there it was during hunting season so I understand there was a lot of competition but it seemed at the point people didn't consider the land to be public. It was like they carved out their own homestead (like you stated) and took ownership of it. There is NO WAY the forest service can't do something about this. So as long as they don't do anything about it, it will continue to happen and get worse. This is really bad out west where the national forests are close to cities like in Washington and Oregon....it's just a dump! For this particular case contact Harriet Hageman. From what I have seen and know about her she is a very good representative. This really has to stop. Thank you for bringing this up and using your voice to help keep all these lands public and open.
Thank you Nigel! My biggest concern is that if the situation continues unchecked, the Forest Service will simply start restricting legal dispersed camping even further. That outcome does no one any good.
@@GrandAdventure Yes, you are absolutely right. There are a lot of malicious "environmental" groups that just salivate at moments like this to lobby to shut areas down. They are doing it all over the Moab, Owyhees, Gila, etc. They use this as the excuse to shut these places down. If rules would just be followed by the people and enforced when they aren't we wouldn't be having these problems. Thanks again. Safe travels.
Beautiful area!!
It really is!
Interesting to see this video at this time in my travels…I’ve looked at the Bighorns on maps and been amazed at the apparent abundance of dispersed camping. Now I hear your piece of the picture, plus I’ve also heard the mountains are a major draw for rock climbers (maybe on the west side near Tensleep?) Maybe it’s not the perfect place for me but I’ll still check it out. But first, funny, I’m headed to Hot Springs!
By all means, go! It is a spectacular area to camp, even the issues they're having notwithstanding.
Thanks Marc... Nice area for sure and great review of the highlights.
The last time I passed through Wyoming, it just seemed so lonely. That was back in 1999. Those rolling hills with nothing but grass and weeds.
I left a short message over at you web page.
Gord
I'm not sure what happened, Gord, but that message has not come through.
You should start putting gps coordinates in the videos as well to find these locations better.
Edit: nope, i'm an idiot. I didn't notice it earlier or maybe it didn't load properly on my end. It's right there in the "for more information," the first link.
Jay, there are Google Maps pins already available for your use in every video's description.
@@GrandAdventure believe it or not I did look and I didn’t see anything in there. Is there something you have to view on desktop for?
Another great site. Too bad low rent people take advantage of the system. I find a similar situation with my local county park. The snowbirds rent out sites for weeks then roll into the park whenever.... I'll be in a fully reserved park that is half empty. Thanks GA
That's another, yet equally pervasive problem, J. Thanks for sharing that experience!
Definitely better weather there than in Newcastle where we ran into you! Stay save and hoe to see you again down the road.
Likewise! It was terrific running into you and Shelly, Michael, and hopefully the next time we'll have more time to get to know one another a little better. Safe travels, and hope to see you out there.
Here's an idea, go fund me account to contact the local owner that they have a number of days to come get their trailer. If not the towing to come get the rig, notify forest service, local po po and have em come get their rig from the local impound. Simple, and I'm sure a number of $5 donations could build up the funds pretty quick. Although we would need someone to handle the rig funds appropriately.
Darn I bet we were in Hot Springs at the same time. Hope we can meet up some day, you do great videos Marc.
Thank you Steve! We would have loved to have met you.
We have enjoyed Buffalo and Longmire days a few times. Lots of fun. Love the area. Need to do some boondocking sometime. Your solution to the problem sounds good to me. They don’t want to do anything, just make excuses. I fear they will instead make more restrictive uses to lands in the future. I hope I’m wrong. I really do. More regulations 😕😞
That's precisely our concern as well. Easier to just shut down the whole thing to dispersed camping than it is to enforce the existing regulations.
Another great video! I found your comment on people leaving their RVs at the same spot for an extended time very interesting. I observed the same thing when boondoocking in the Bighorn mountains back in Aug, 2015. In fact, my blog actually commented on it: "I saw trailers that were already spotted but nobody was around them while I was here. Guess people just leave them there for a while and use them when they want." So, what you saw has been going on for years. BTW, I was camped at 44.285080,-106.961580. Maybe close to you, based on your comments of distance from Buffalo.
Ralph, we were several miles Southeast of where you were, on the opposite side of US 16. Yes, this has been a prevailing problem in many national forests for quite some time now. It was just worse in the Bighorns than I have ever seen anywhere.
The Bighorns is the absolute worst I’ve seen for the stay limit problem. It’s seriously ridiculous!
We completely agree.
I agree with your view on removing squatters. I have seen the same thing through out Wyoming, it's not just the Bighorns. Talking with some of the local's that partake in this activity it becomes apparent that this is done for a reason. The reason is to keep out of state travelers out of their ( resident Wyoming's) local National forests. The Wyoming residents are not fond of the majority of the out of state visitors (but they like the money they bring) so this there way to discourage their stay in the area and force them to just move on. Local authorities are most times complicit in this view, so they turn a blind eye to this squatter behavior. I have been going to Wyoming for many years now and see the same trailers parked in the same spots in the national forests where I visit year after year all summer long. For the trailers that are made to move after the 14 days, a friend will show up with his trailer and the two will simply swap sites to continue tying up the national forest sites. Good luck with spreading your view point of the squatter issue, but I'm here to tell you this has been going on for years now and won't stop as long as you have out of state people wanting to visit Yellow stone and the Teton's and need a place to camp with their trailers coming to and from the parks.
If that's the case, Wayne, that's a different motivation than we've encountered elsewhere. It's a substantial issue in our home state of Utah as well, where at least one National Forest - Ashley - has finally been taking steps to eliminate the behavior. However, in Utah it's done to secure (and hold) a spot, and has nothing to do with in-state/out-of-state rivalry.
@@GrandAdventureThe squatting practice in Wyoming is also used to hold and secure a spot. I was just parroting the view point of the locals in the area I frequent and I have viewed the squatting abuse first hand. Wyoming residents are a different breed of cat, they live in a very unpopulated state for a reason and they find ways to keep their favorite spots to them selves.
Squatters are the demise of first come first served. In the Unita Mountains of Utah, it has got so bad that we don't even bother because it is the same campers in the same spots weekend after weekend. The rangers don't care because they are getting their money week after week. I'm all for raising the rates so squatters would have to shell out big buck to prevent anyone else from having a chance to use the nice spots. Pretty soon camping in the Unitas will only be for squatters.
That's sad to hear, Marv. I know that for dispersed camping, Ashley NF in the western Uintas started enforcing their 14-day stay limit this year, and impounding the RVs of violators.
Did you consider that you were visiting the little field mouse’s home before you decided to kill it?
Did you consider that he and his offspring would've chewed through thousands of dollars of wire damage and pissed throughout my insulation if I didn't? Have you heard of hantavirus?
I agree, it is time to stop the "we don't have the manpower excuses" and enforce the laws now!! Since when do we not abide by the rules and the laws?? It would appear if they aren't going to enforce these laws then their services are not needed!
Going back to 2020 the "homesteading" a spot has been true. Almost every really desirable spot has a "permanent" camper on that site. People may not be there but the camper, trailers with ATV's, large propane tank,... setting for the next weekends activities. Some of the rigs were even skirted.
1. The park service needs to understand that allowing one obvious violation of the rules influences some to disregard ALL the rules.
2. Your solution would work and pay for it self.
Hear, hear.
People who live in the area are the owners of the public land. Those are locals and most people in the area don't have the money or quite frankly a good enough vehicle to tow the trailer up and down everytime they want to go up the mountain. Most of these are retired people living on social security, and this is their only retirement. So don't judge, just pick another spot.
@@MountainLife86 frankly, that's complete and utter bullshit. Every American owns that land, whether they're from Wyoming or Maine. No one gets a pass on blatantly violating regulations, either, whether they're from Wyoming or Maine. The mindset you espouse is precisely the problem, and will ultimately lead to the prohibition on boondocking in that area
@GrandAdventure yeah, we need people from out of state to come tell us what to do with our state. You don't like how we do it, don't come.
@@MountainLife86 that's not state land. That's federal land. Neither you, nor anyone else has a right to monopolize it. That's not "how (you) do it," it's a clear violation of USFS regulation. As a Utahn I own that land every bit as much as you do.
Are those wide open pasture areas show where logging has occurred?
That, we don't know the answer to. However, the forest behind our camper was clearly secondary growth following an earlier logging, as all of the trees there were younger and approximately the same height/diameter/age.
I’m not sure Why the locals are dropping but I could guess … NO spots when they get to go when they get time off which can be tricky.
I was lucky I started camping in early 70’s in Wyoming.. Then I got married and had a family the only thing we spent scraped together money on was Camping.. hunting and hiking.
We don’t have the big factory jobs with benefits like paid sick or vacation time off.
If you got sick or hurt “ you worked anyway”
Usually lower wages to get by on..
So I get it. We are usually quite friendly here so just park your rig next to the left rig and put a note on your neighbors rig..When they get there offer a friendly wave and maybe a conversation I bet they would be fine.
I hope folks are not trashing our campgrounds or highways because if I see them do that I’ll get a plate number and report it. Try to respect others and be creative with solutions..
How is the Loves?? It seems like a great overnight option
That was actually our viewer Connie in the chat room. Hopefully she'll see your question.
Interesting, if I ever need a cheap place to homestead, I know where to go. Just kidding.
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Heading to boondock the big horn now and work in Sheridan. Any suggestions of the best place in the national forest to stay nearby Sheridan? Thx
Have a safe trip! We didn't look in the areas somewhat close to Sheridan, so regrettably we don't have any specific suggestions. Just grab topo and MVUM maps and happy hunting!
@@GrandAdventure thx. So far so good. It’s beautiful here!
@@Breakchecks It most certainly is.
The problem is that the folks who leave trailers on USFS land are locals who know the USFS ranger and the tow company operator. These people want to keep YOU and ME out of the forest.
That may be the case for a select few examples. However, the situation in the Bighorns is far bigger than that.
Hi we enjoy your videos. I just wonder where your wife is?
This is one of the few episodes where she's actually visible, Joyce. Generally speaking, she's an intensely private person who's adamantly against appearing on camera.
Hey, my backyard! Glad you found it as beautiful as I do. You ever make it out this way again, let my wife and I know. We'd love to show you some of the lesser-known sights and take you out for a meal. And my folks usually spend a couple months each year boondocked up off Elgin Park...even though they live in Buffalo they love to get out of town for a while!
We'd love to break bread with you both, Patrick, but no need to take us out. I'll remember for next time, for sure.
Forest service authorities wont take care of the matter of squatters in the National forest land....They will simply not allow the camping period...As usual, greedy folks will ruin it for everyone else just like it always happens....Travel safe, be well....
I agree that that is the eventual result if nothing is done. However, I firmly believe that we don't have to get that far if we take common sense measures to enforce existing regulations via an effective private/public partnership like we've described that won't cost taxpayers a penny.
I surely would not want to leave an expensive Rv in the woods all summer, unattended. Surprised no one has broken in or stolen them.
I wouldn't either, although it's hardly a high crime area.
@@GrandAdventure not after they see your video 😂
@@Thesaltymedic36 🤣
I've had similar experiences where I couldn't find a decent site for our camper and then went to a NFS Campground got a FCFS Site nearby for $15/night and it was 60% empty caused by the other problem campers face. NO SHOWS! it seems it one extreme to another? Selfish people with poor camping etiquette...
That's of course another issue, Wesley, but another one to be concerned about. However, that's one that creates much less impetus to solve. The National Forest campgrounds are typically operated by concessionaires under a lease, and as long as they get paid for the campsite they don't care if anyone is actually occupying it or not. In fact, I would speculate that they'd almost prefer that the site remain unoccupied but paid for, for that means less work for the company when the camper departs.
The National Forest Service in Sheridan, WY should be totally embarrassed by this video. Shame on them for not doing their job!
JT, I understand the argument about manpower and resources. However, as explained in our "solution" it need not cost the USFS anything to enforce the regulations -- the fines generated easily pay one enforcement person's salary, while towing and impound revenue gives the tow companies the financial incentive to get involved. Together, they clean up the problem and discourage the practice going forward. It's a win-win.
@@GrandAdventure
I agree with you. They always seem to have plenty of man power to chase ATV's, UTV's, motorcycles & snowmobiles around to make sure they have an ORV (Off Road Vehicle) sticker on their machine.
They have the manpower & resources to address this problem, they're just lazy!
Do you think I need 4wd to get here?
Not at all, Eli. It's good graded dirt road.
Much more to the "abandoned" camper issue. The stay limit and how far you have to move is absurd. Moreover, Bidenomics have forced many to have to camp on National Forest lands. It is safer than the streets of the big cities. However, Forest officials are treating these displaced folks like common criminals and are not beyond making threats, or getting downright nasty. There are always two sides to a story. Some of those abandoned units are not abandoned at all, the Floristas just think that. So there's my vent.
And your comments are welcome, Thom. Let me expand a bit, because with all due respect I think we are talking about two different situations. Those trailers in the Bighorns were not abandoned. They were being used on weekends, perhaps every few weeks. The vast majority were in excellent condition, and no one was living in them full time. For most, no one was visible anywhere near them during the entire week we were there. There were no trucks to accompany the trailers. People just weren't bringing them home to their own driveways when not being used.
Too much drone. Boring!