Medieval Combat With Triangle Shields
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- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
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Music: Kevin MacLeod "All This - Scoring Action", RUclips Audio Library
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Very interesting video and points, beautifully made and very nice shield.
Thank you very much for your kind words.
Metatron, welcome!
Mama mia, i guess u are.
I find 'real' combat and HEMA reenactment so much more cooler and funner that all that shield bashing in movies and the like. I feel that fighting secenes in media would benefit from more realism, as the smoothness, finesse and flow that show in a sparring match where you each want to hit each other without getting hit is just mesmerizing.
Thanks for your appreciation.
At 2:27, is it not possible to just slip your fingers into the far handstrap, then wrap your thumb around the outside, like how one normally holds something?
Yes, of course.
What I have found with shields is that there is a world of difference between wood in and of itself and wood with a simple layer of linen on top fixated with some kind of glue. One is shot through by arrows like a mile deep, but from the other it bounces back quite often. Also the way you hold it, really how fixated it is.
Absolutely so.
Thank you, very interesting. Gesso must have been a great invention since it has been used for so many centuries. In anglosaxon texts linden could be synonymous with shield. Birch for woodchopping axe, Ash for knife handles and spear shafts and Aspen for sauna benches and matches since it conducts heat less and will not put slinters in your behind.
Fantastic video! We've been looking into experimenting how they may have fought with shield while in full harness. We have the same issue as you do, being that we'd need a large amount of ppl that we trust and have good control. Looking forward to seeing your results from your testing!
Reece
You can easily see all the effort and expertise gone into this video. I have to say thank you for all your great work - keep it up!
Thank you for your appreciation.
I just love the fact that your main sparring-partner always comes as "the monk" that you see in so many period depictions of sparring and exercise.
Awesome video! I would love to get into learning one-on-one combat. I have a little experience in knife throwing and archery but I've never found someone who could teach me swordfighting. This is very good info for a novel I am writing too!
Happy you find it useful.
Your oponent used a shoulder strap. Would like to hear commentary on the pros and cons of it's use
A guige strap helps to distribute weight and gives additional control. At the same time it is more restrictive.
Pros: Your arm doesn't get tired carrying a shield around.
Cons: When you fight you can't fully extend it.
I can't see any functional benefit from having it during the actual fighting as demonstrated. Maybe on a horse if you aren't actively moving it so much, and it mostly sits on one side? Or if its a bigger shield.
(not a specialist in any meaningful way)
Apparently, the light shield that I am using never had a guige strap. So I agree that guige straps are useful for heavier shields. However, on the ground your guige strap should always be arranged in such a fashion that you can extend your arm, or else it is a hindrance to use your body effeciently. Compare to these photos here, for example: facebook.com/266934476773420/photos/a.326095754190625.1073741858.266934476773420/326096177523916/?type=3&theater
From the pictures from the period, you can see some of the knights using the strap to connect this shield to the shoulder, rather to the forearm.
Since this is visible at the same time the longsword appears and the target shield started to be used, I do assume this was rather favorite way of fighting with this kind of shield.
Yes, you do loose some of the protection, but you gain more control over your weapon.
Actually, using the guige strap to swing the shield on the back to have both hands free for your weapon predates the longsword by more than a century: Compare to these images from period art work: facebook.com/266934476773420/photos/a.326095754190625.1073741858.266934476773420/326096004190600/?type=3&theater or here: facebook.com/266934476773420/photos/a.326095754190625.1073741858.266934476773420/711291679004362/?type=3&theater or in this remarkable miniature from about 1200: facebook.com/266934476773420/photos/a.326095754190625.1073741858.266934476773420/326096040857263/?type=3&theater
Wow… fantastic video: an excellent and extensive explanation, AND an amazing sparring sequence!
I'd love to hear about a comparison between using this kind of shield and using a similarly sized round center-grip.
Thank you. A comparison to a center-gripped round shield of Germanic/Viking design would be academic more than anything, as these forms of shields did not co-exist. Round shields in the 13th and 14th centuries generally featured enarmes if full size. Here is an allegorical depiction from 1350: manuscriptminiatures.com/4040/11513/ Only the rather small buckler sported a wooden center handle.
Great video, Thank you. Love the wall of swords behind you. Is that your collection ?
Part of my collection, yes.
Very nice. Thank you Sir.
You are welcome.
Was that sparring with sharps? I'd be nervous with that hand hit and the tip press on the chest, those looked like close calls.
What he said. The edges are a lot finer than on your usual training sword, and the points more acute, but blunt never-the-less.
I think more so roland that when a shield turns that the target has changed...what I mean is once the shield responds to the sword it ruins the edge alignment so it can't continue easily. Another thing to consider is you might not intentionally be catching a sword blade with the edge of the shield anyway, a sword isn't going to like biting into the flat of the shield nearly as much.
I agree.
Regarding the fight we see at the end: The way you keep your bodies positioned reminded me much more on medieval imagery than every film scene I saw in knight movies. Thanks for sharing this, Roland!
Cool. You are welcome.
One thing I've noticed when you're fighting is that you're more concerned with your own shield placement, with regards to your opponent's sword, than your sword placement. The people you fight tend to be more concerned with their own sword placement than where their shield is. This neglect seems to be why they lose. They're paying more attention to trying to hit you than trying to avoid being hit.
Granted your sword is usually right by your shield, but every move you make is more like a parry of your opponent's moves.
What an amazing video. Quality work as always Roland!
Thank you for the praise. Much appreciated.
It's quite small.
Oversized buckler.
:)
Indeed. It makes perfect sense to me that buckler fencing was extremely popular in the 14th century.
Really an amazing video! Excellent work!
Thank you.
Great and comprehensive insight.
Hervorragend!
Dankesehr und gern geschehen.
Excellent video. Have you tried using the straps while you are armoured?
Happy you like the video. We yet have to test the shield with armour.
This latest batch of videos have been outstanding! Looking forward to the construction video.
Scrolling through the comments I realised I can read your German, despite not speaking it, also do you do the painting or does someone else, it seems more alive then most modern depictions of heraldry are?
I did the painting myself. I am a professional illustrator. I studied at the Academy of Fine Arts in Stuttgart for a number of years.
That's neat, I like to draw myself, though I doubt I'd be able to make money in it very easily
The market has indeed become tougher.
May I ask what medium you like to use?
You mean when I do illustration? Most of the time it is mixed analogue and digital. Find my online portfolio here: www.gutgezeich.net/
Hi! Informative video! I`m wondering, what kind of paint have you used on the shield?
I will soon post a video on the paint I use on my shield. So far, the authentic paints I produced were egg tempera, but I will soon try milk paint, too.
Roland Warzecha Thanks for the answer, looking forward to it!
great interesting historical videos, keep it up
I will do my best.
A video, about combat formation and shieldwall plzzzzzzz. Was it a series of 1vs1 fights, or was there a different way the shields came to play when more people fought together.
Your videos have gotten me quite interested in sword and buckler, as well as the High Medieval period. Too bad my local HEMA club teaches primarily longsword.
Ah, excellent. I am delighted to read that I managed to peak your interest in sword & shield. All you need is one devoted training partner. Big things have small beginnings, as it says in Lawrence of Arabia!
Sounds like you need to bring up the suggestion to the club.
My club is soon to start sword and buckler because a few larpers want to use HEMA to improve their game, now maybe your club is specifically for longsword, but I feel that any true HEMA practitioner has a lust for the art, and with a little nudge would be willing to explore. Hell, if youre in the northwest of florida and the surrounding areas, you can come to a class.
Bearling I asked my instructor. Sword and buckler is taught through adapting Kunst des Fechtens in advanced classes. Thanks for the suggestion!
Good deal, longsword is typically the starting point for german schools, so that makes sense its in the later classes.
Watching the fighting in the last few minutes I can't help but wonder if the fighting style wouldn't change if you really wanted to do harm.
what are the overall dimensions of the shield, in inches if at all possible(I'm American, not familiar with metric)
Great to see you trying to recreat sword and heater shield fencing! Your insites were facinating and the sparring was really amazing to watch. I also really appreciated your discussion of formation fighting. While you have convinced me about the advantages of fighting from the bind, I have always wondered about how that translates to fighting multiple opponents, either alone or with allies. Obviously this is hard to practice for the reasons you pointed out in the video. Still I would love to hear your thoughts about how your tactics and techniques would change if you are faced with more than one opponent.
You are most welcome, glad you enjoyed the video. Regarding formation fighting, I will definitely share any insights I might gain. In terms of binding, the physics do not change. The context would likely be different, though. So you binding an opposing spear may be designed to give your fellow spearman a chance to exploit an opening that you created.
Isn't linden wood also one of the woods on which medieval and renaissance painters painted?
Quite interesting how you can grip a strapped shield like a center grip shield
Indeed. It is seen in contemporary art quite often.
What is the weight of one of these shields? They look rather light. Also, are the strap configurations used typical for many kiteshields of the period (and what period?), or is this kind of unusual? Was there even a "typical" configuration? I've seen heater/kite shields where the straps go diagonally across it or horizontally, even vertically, but never ones where the straps were designed to be held in one hand like a buckler. Reminds me of the Indian Dhal, held by gripping similar straps.
This has opened my eyes to all kinds of advantages that these shields offer over conventional arm-strapped shields. Being able to swivel and pivot around a single point in nearly every direction is a big advantage, as you've demonstrated in your sparring with it. When I see people spar with strap-held shields, I am usually disappointed at the lack of technique and finesse. You did not disappoint, Roland! Another great video, as always!
You are welcome. The original of the shield I reconstructed weighs 2 kilo as of today. Add to this the strapping and maybe a few grams of moisture. As for strap arrangements: there were many different designs, probably allowing for a variety of gripping methods depending on context of action (on horseback, on the ground, in formation, in single combat etc.). Whatever the situation would demand, you will always need perfect control of your shield, and if the shield becomes a hindrance to moving efficiently, then something must be wrong with its reconstructed use or set up. Thank you for your interest.
if the lion had one more tail (and a crown) it would be a czech lion :D
great video , thanks !
You are welcome.
The leather buttons are currently used on some horse tack. I have two bridles made that way.
Interesting.
very good video! approximately how thick is the shield?
Thank you. Shield thickness is 8mm comprising all layers.
Roland Warzecha thanks. I don't suppose there's any plans to do a video on how it was put together?
Oh, but of course. I have documented the whole making process, and will start an according series as soon as I have completed the one on my Viking round shield.
assumption is the mother of all fuck ups
7:00 Wait, what??? Are u saying that over 90% of protagonists who using fight style in the film & tv show would gonna be easily slaughtered on the real medieval battlefield???
yes, without speqking of the quality of their armour. And I guess he was merely speaking of around 100% excepting maybe fights in short movies made by fencing schools.
Hey Roland, how different do you think this shield would have been used compared to a larger heater from say, 1250?
The principles would be the same, the contexts may vary. Shields appear to have come as allrounders, as well as special purpose ones, e.g. for formation, mounted combat, siege warfare duelling etc.
In Jan Kohlmorgen's Der Mittelalterliche Reiterschild (The medieval equestrian shield) he depicts a shield like this, if not this exact example, as having the straps form an 'x' rather than running parallel. I don't know whether that was just an assumption a lot of people have had or that there are surviving examples with intact straps with this 'x' configuration but I see it depicted a lot, however, the control and stability that is seemed to be gained from the tension caused by gripping both straps in the hand seems to be the more logical configuration.
Is this a lesser known argument? This parallel strap configuration? I remember seeing eastern shields with this as well and I've never seen surviving examples of either of these two configurations so is it possible that a lot of historians just assumed that the straps formed an 'x' based on the rivets on surviving shields?
I am familiar with Jan's reconstruction. I know that he had only a few minutes to examine the shield, while we spend an hour per shield, which still is not nearly enough time. At any rate, Jan simple adopted Nickel's reconstruction, namely the crossing straps. Period iconography frequently shows center grips, but to me the straps do not appear to be crossing each other: facebook.com/266934476773420/photos/a.326095754190625.1073741858.266934476773420/670107556456108/?type=3&theater Plus, the crossed straps offer no advantage but limit your options, as we found out in practical experiments. An earlier relief shows a similar arrangement: www.medart.pitt.edu/image/france/france-st/sgilles/Central-Portal/ma534sgis.JPG
Excellent video.
Happy you like it.
i love your videos, they are extactly what i was looking for. Throwing some light into real medieval combat. You are a very sensible person and a great content creator. With this said i would like to request that you changed your medieval clothings into actual fencing clothes in order for your combats to be more free, without the fear of hurting the opponent. Greeting and keep it up. Also will you do a combat simulation of shield and spear?
Thank you for your appreciation. In regards to fencing equipment: I do use safety gear such as masks in training, too. This does not alter my overall approach at all. Read more here: www.patreon.com/posts/challenge-of-2452330
As for shield & spear: maybe, but no such plans for the near future.
Interesting how light the shield is, I always thought heater shields were made just as heavy as their larger counterparts, the Kite shield, because they had to withstand heavy crossbow bolt, longbow fire, and couched lance strikes.
The original one is somewhat heavier than my reconstruction due to the choice of would. At any rate, there are all sorts of shields which most likely were made for specific contexts of action.
I was trying to watch the footwork and found it more difficult to see what Cornelius was doing because of his clothing, I wonder if you found a difference between fighting opponents whose legs are more or less visible?
Not really. I judge measure by perceiving their frame.
could'nt the spikes be used like a wedge? if you strike a shield that does not have such spikes with spiked shield you might actually splinter that shield and gain an advantage, no?
It is hard enough to drive a nail through a laminated shield board when it is fixed to a work bench. The relatively blunt nail heads on original shields would hardly be suited for damaging an opposing shield. Plus, what would be the point of causing damage to a shield anyway? My experience is that any opponent focusing on the weapons instead of the opponent has already lost his objective and will lose the encounter. I have never been beaten by anyone who even looked at the weapons in a fight.
Damn it's too hard to find good information on this topic, thanks! Also is your book about combat with sword and shield out yet?
The book is still in the works and will take some time to be completed. Thanks for bearing with me.
How much protection from arrows do you think this shield would provide?
Only testing would show. But apparently, the design and construction was considered good enough for its original context. The question is, if we understand this context correctly.
Roland, do you think this techniques were used in the battlefield or only in dueling situations?
I can only say that one on one has a different geometry, naturally. However, while all modern enthusiasts appear to be obsessed with large scale battles, the truth is that these were very rare events. Most military medieval actions consisted of ravaging the countryside, and most victims of the sword did neither fall in battle nor in a duel. they were massacred.
Good video
Thanks.
could you flip the shield around and use it point first as you grip the straps in the center?
It is at least a method that is seen in period art work.
What are the dimensions?
How do you feel about S&B against longsword? What chances do you see for each combatant if talking about roughly equals and what tactics would they use if you have experience? Do you feel that any would have a significant advantage like spear vs sword for example where spear is better in majority of circumstances?
I realize this question has no definite answer, but I only want to hear your opinion on this.
In s&b vs longsword or spear, the tactics for each party are pretty clear: The s&b fighter has to shorten range, bind and quickly get into range, while the one with the longer weapon can play out reach and is well advised to keep his distance. Regarding spear vs sword, it is the same thing. The odds for a swordsman are actually better than most people assume: Other than with the usual blunt swords in modern practice, a sharp sword binding gives you a clear idea of where the spear is moving without looking, so you can keep your focus on the target while shortening range. This makes a huge difference and is an advantage that other weapons do not have. Spear is still a tough match, of course.
Thank you
How realistic is that fight? I'm so unknowledgeable that I can't distinguish between a child playing and Two professionals fighting with a sword. It looks kind of strange to me but you would probably win every sword fight with me. Did they really fight like this back then or is this just something that works today with no kill strikes?
And the other question I have is how lethal would the sword strike at the end of every duel be if you would continue? The one against the face (19:50) would probably do quite some damage. But the ones into the belly would hurt at most because cloths back then were quite sturdy (18:40 and 20:40) or am I wrong?
And did you hit the hands and arms with your sword?
In my opinion, the best criterion for evaluating efficacy and validity of technique in historical swordplay, or rather the reconstruction thereof, is how closely it resembles the surviving fighting treatises. While there are no actual sources for fighting with this type of shield, there are others, e.g. the MS I.33 on duelling with sword and buckler. This is the source we have worked with for many years, and many of the techniques you see in the video are based upon it, plus on some other combat treatises. How true a reconstruction we present here, I cannot say, of course, but at least most situations that occur in our fighting are dealt with in the historical fight books, so i daresay our performance is at least not in contradiction with the extant sources.
As to when to stop a practice match is up to the fencers and usually agreed upon beforehand. It is a simulation, after all. So if I feel I would have received a good hand hit I may stop the fight. But as for a thrust in the belly, sure, it would be recommendable for the attacker to keep on controlling his opponent and the situation with whatever means appear appropriate. Always depends on what it is that you are training in a given sparring match.
The good thing about relatively small channels is that you actually get a thought through response to questions.
If you compare the way the surviving fighting treatises to modern manuals how do they differ? Were the texts as detailed as they are now and do they focus on the same stuff that we are interested nowadays?
Where can I find any articles on the original shield?
I am not aware of anything in English, but "der mittelalterliche Reiterschild" by Jan Kohlmorgen includes good information on this and other medieval shields: www.karfunkelshop.de/mobile/mittelalterliche-reiterschild-mp-67.html
The shield is exhibited at Marburg University Museum, Germany.
Shields continue to be more nimble than I would have thought! If you have the time, some information on your clothing/soft kit would be interesting.
In the fighting sequences I am wearing costume that was fashionable in the second half of the 14th century. see some details of costume in this contemporary depiction. facebook.com/266934476773420/photos/a.445842678882598.1073741902.266934476773420/487990964667769/?type=3&theater
See more mid-14th century dandies here: facebook.com/266934476773420/photos/a.445842678882598.1073741902.266934476773420/516078935192305/?type=3&theater
Danke, Roland! Super! Macht Lust auf Dreiecksschilde!
Gern geschehen. Ist sehr viel entpannter als Bucklerfechten.
How protective does this kind of shield feel compared to a buckler? Is it significantly better?
It offers way more protection than a buckler does. You can tell by the sheer duration of our matches in the video: It is a lot harder to get at your opponent and much easier to stay covered. I find it a lot less stressful and less demanding than fencing with a buckler.
Thank you!
I'm very interested in how you hold the shield. What do you think about the straps that fit around the arm, such as on kite shields and larger heater shields? How would you fight with those?
Thanks for your interest. What makes you think shield strappings on other shield forms would not allow for the same kind of grip and method of use? My research suggests that enarmes allowed for a number of ways to hold a shield, depending on the context of action. At any rate, body mechanics dictate shield design, not vice versa.
Roland Warzecha I see what you mean. I just thought because it seemed like there would be less material between your hand and the edge, but thinking about it I suppose if the straps were at an angle that wouldn't be a problem.
I see that you are much nimbler with your shield than your opponent, Roland. Is this just the style of your opponent or is it the shield strap which hampered his movements?
Probably both. My shield hand's agility comes from years of double stick fighting. At the same time, any strap has the flaw of limiting mobility to a certain degree. Plus, Cornelius' shield is heavier.
Interesting. I use a Kalkan shield on reenactment events which also has a strap. It IS limiting but you are able to use some of the side swaps and movements of the shield as in swords&buckler fencing.
Execellent video and fantastic work on the shields!
I can't imagine why anyone would ask you aren't sparring with greater speed. When Cornelius and yourself got really into it, the two of you moved like lightning!
That's what I love about your sparring, you move into distance and after that you only move your feet afterwards to maintain that distance, BUT YOUR HANDS! I certainly can't say that I have the motor skills, nor the experience to move like that with a sharp sword.
Girard Thibault recommended entering striking distance through the assurance of bind at thrusting distance and staying in that distance until the fight is concluded. He also stated that most fencers do not do this, rather they rush in with a device and rush out regardless of their own success or failure.
I do prefer Thibault's method for its surety, but many masters such as Joachim Meyer and also George Silver I believe would have you retreat after every superficial hit, so I guess I can't complain other people preferring to fight that way.
Thank you for this video, keep up the good work :)
Thank you very much for this. I would be most interested in the according quotes from Thibault, as this is *exactly* what I strive to achieve and what I teach. I would be most grateful if you could point me there. It is also most enlightening that Thibault pointed out that most fencer of his do not do this, either. Tah!
Regarding speed: Yes, I am happy you pointed this out. I think many viewers who consider our fighting as comparably slow-paced are betrayed by perception. Most people are used to judge distance and speed be perceiving the big frame of the body. So if fencers jump about a lot and step all the time, people think they are fast. Likewise, all the effort and tension that comes with moving around too much makes it feel faster, when really it is only more hectic.
But in a fight, the very fact that humans are used to judge measure and speed based on the body's motion, is the best reason to NOT move it, or move it as economically as possible. Because what really matters is the speed of the weapon. And I daresay one would be hard-pressed to find a sparring video where practitioners move their points at the same speed in a continuous flow as seen here.
Thanks for your appreciation.
Roland Warzecha
I'm actually surprised that you haven't studied Thibault, much for the same reason that you're surprised. Rewatching some of your videos, it almost feels like you are quoting him! :P
Here are some quotes from the wonderful english translation of John Michael Greer.
This is gonna be a long one, so get comfortable!
Speed vs Approach:
"And I believe firmly that neither quickness of body nor promptness of arm is to be prized more than a good approach." -Chapter 6, page 120.
Economical Movement:
"Even though Alexander [Thibault's student] sometimes remains without stirring from his place, even so the attacks he makes are not begun until the instant that the enemy has advanced up to the Second Instance [distance where the enemy's sword help at full extension reaches up to your elbow, if you assume the same posture]."
-Chapter 6, page 120.
On Binding:
"For what is more noble than to know how to attack and subject an opposing sword? Or what more useful, than to make one's approach [into long distance and beyond] with such a notable advantage?...it is one of the most important operations of our practice..." -Chapter 7, page 124.
"...we can have no assurance more certain than by touching something with the hand." ... "For once we have contact between the blades, we are able to make our approaches against the adversary with assurance, since we are certain always to know in time the designs he intends to use against us, which no are sooner begun than we have already prepared ourselves against them." -Chapter 9, page 168.
Practice, Biomechanics and Speed:
"For even if they are difficult to put into practice at the beginning, they are nonetheless made very easy by practice, so that in the proper place and time they may be done with the greatest grace, indeed with an unbelievable quickness, and with a happy proceeding not from chance but from the surety of art, founded on natural reason." -Chapter 8, page 149.
'Fühlen' and Sentiment:
"...all the advantage of this art consists in ASSURANCE in making one's approaches. This cannot be done without a complete knowledge of the importance of Sentiment and Sight." -Chapter 9, page 152
[Thibault then divides Sentiment, or fühlen as the german master's wrote, into 9 different 'weights' from 'dead' to 'strongest'. The second weight, plainly called 'sentiment' is described as the bare minimum effort required to affect an opposing blade, just like slicing into a bind to test its quality :D]
Binding vs What Others do:
"It will be found by experience that those who are not fully trained in the use of this practice, nor in fully comprehending its fundamental reasons, ordinarily permit the enemy to weaken, nay, even to DETACH his sword at will, without working against him until they see where he is directing his point. In this way, they lose time, and the true occasion for their defence." -Chapter 7, page 125.
"All these examples clearly demonstrate the very great usefulness of sentiment, which is nonetheless held in so little esteem among the masters of this profession." -Chapter 9, page 168.
"That which they do with hazard, we demonstrate with surety; for we come by means of sentiment into close measure, and being there, we force the opponent to defend himself with violent motions, in such a way that he opens for us a path to a position, where he will receive an inevitable attack." -Chapter 10, page 176.
I could quote all 44 chapters, but this is already a lot of juicy stuff, so I finish off with a quote on teaching :)
"I would, therefore, have the student be well exercised in making those judgements, and in order to practice this, the best and EASIEST situations possible should be presented to him." -Chapter 9, page 155.
Hmmm, learning something slowly and meticulously in order to achieve mastery required for proper freeplay, where have I heard that before :P
Hope you enjoyed the read, sir, keep up the good work!
This is absolutely wonderful. Now I *have* to study Thibault in depth and detail. Thank you very much. greatly appreciated.
Wunderbar...das ist echt schoen. Danke fuer deine Arbeit. Wuerd ich koennte mal wieder nach Deutschland, damit ich mit euch ueben koennte.
Nächstes Jahr wird es auch wieder Schild-Seminare im Geschichstpark geben.
Also, ich bin Amerikaner den in China lebt. Nächstes Jahr ich wird wieder nach Amerika umlaufen. Vielleicht im Jahr wenn Geld auf die Bäumen wächts dann koennte ich uber kommen. :P
Roland Warzecha Die Seminare sind auf Deutsch oder Englisch? Ich komme aus Pilsen, also Bärnau ist sehr nah und dies ist sehr interessant, aber ich vermute, dass diese historische Terminologie für mich auf Deutsch zu schwer wäre. Übrigens, ist die extrem lange Kapuze nicht nervig beim Kämpfen?
Die Seminare hatten bisher Teilnehmern aus allen möglichen Ländern, sogar aus USA, Neuseeland und Hong Kong. Sie werden deshalb auf englisch abgehalten. Der lange Kapuzenzipfel stört übrigens gar nicht. Man kann ihn hinten in den Gürtel stopfen, als Schal um den Hals schlingen oder als Stirnband tragen.
Your skill is as ever very impressive but I was a little disappointed to see only the centre grip used in the sparring making the footage look in style essentially the same as your buckler and 'Viking' shield videos. I'd be very interested to see what happens if you hold TVs shield through the straps either edge or point on.
Ian, why would you expect something essentially different? I am indeed pressing forward the edge as a standard with all my shields. This proved to be superior to alternative approaches, regardless of shield design, so I consider it a rewarding insight into historical shield-fighting (in single combat). I would actually call it a general concept with the shield designs I have experimented with.
Also, the gripping method employed here is more complex than with a buckler, because the way the thumb strap runs over the lower arm provides excellent control. The central grip is also seen in period art quite often. take a look here: facebook.com/266934476773420/photos/a.326095754190625.1073741858.266934476773420/326099197523614/?type=3&theater or here. facebook.com/266934476773420/photos/a.326095754190625.1073741858.266934476773420/533586776774854/?type=3&theater or here: facebook.com/266934476773420/photos/a.326095754190625.1073741858.266934476773420/1102278563239003/?type=3&theater … and there are hundreds more from all periods medieval.
I did, in fact, also try out the point forward method as seen here: facebook.com/266934476773420/photos/a.326095754190625.1073741858.266934476773420/448945515238981/?type=3&theater I will post a video at one point, too.
Thank you for the compliment on my skill.
Roland Warzecha I look forward to seeing that video! I wasn't suggesting the shield would not have been used in that fashion at all. Merely that as far as I can tell in this footage you only held it via the centre straps. I imagine holding it in either the two variations you mentioned with arms through the strap would in some fashion alter the way you might fence and I would be very interested to see that as it's not something we've seen in your other videos :-)
In general, I always prefer to be able to exploit maximum distance. With this shield, this is best achieved with the grip I employ in the video. However, this is unarmoured combat, so you want to avoid getting any closer than required. It might be different in armour. If wrestling is a viable option of ending your fight, and if your armour provides sufficient protection, then the point forward grip might indeed be a better choice.
is that background Real? is so that's Stunning !
*if
It is this place: www.geschichtspark.de/
heater shield.... its called a heater shield.... and didnt bother watching this i mean cant even get the terminology right
I do not say this very often but this is an exceptionally ignorant comment (not that there is any shortage here on RUclips). Where do you guess the comparison to the shape of a modern implement like a heater comes from? A medieval manuscript? Plus, it is common in English only. Modern English that is. Maybe you should read a book every now and then.
you are right your reply was an exceptionally ignorant comment
+Robert Weber Umm...dude, there is no need to be disrespectful.
(And actually, Roland is right (as far as my research go) "heater shield" is a mordern terminology that is only common in english. (Keep in mind that Roland is from germany.))
Roland, I really like you and your videos and have a great respect for your knowledge. But somehow I find it hard to see your sparring as realistic. I suppose that medieval training could look like that but I cant believe that a real duel/fight would look like that. My own (limited) experience in sparring is that its much quicker and a bit more desperate. This also accounts for all competition I have seen live or on the Tube. This could of course be that we don't have the training nor the experience they had hundred of years ago. What is your opinion and thoughts?
Nevertheless, keep up the good work Roland.
Well, you have to ask yourself: Where does your notion of "realism" come from? If it is indeed modern HEMA sparring, then in turn you should ask yourself how realistic a simulation of medieval combat can be provided by practicing with blunt swords, modern fencing masks, bulky padded gloves, modern protective vests and guards and wearing modern shoes in a modern gym? My observation is that most HEMA practitioners charge in way too happily because they know there is nothing at stake. This is a typical sports approach, where scoring a point is more important than staying safe. This is definitely extremely inappropriate to dealing with actual combat, and is in stark contrast to what we see in historical source material, where control is paramount. Accordingly, situations that are covered in the historical treatises over and over, namely complex technique from a binding situation, hardly ever occurs in the majority of HEMA bouts. In contrast, at DIMICATOR, the vast majority of actions that evolve in our sparring exactly match situations that we are familiar with from the sources we work with. So what is a better guideline for "realism": Modern HEMA sparring or historical combat treatises?
Ulf Lidsman from much later periods but accounts we have of 18th and 19th century duels suggest as many different styles of fighting as duels even in this life and death situation. Many are cagey and timid, many are fierce and aggressive, many are measured and impassive. I don't see any reason to believe anything changes if you go back in time.
I believe you have a good point there Roland. What we see as "realistic" comes from films, Fantasy books, sparring etc, etc... And I guess that is with those eyes I look at your video. I have thought about your answers and I think you way of reasoning is sound. But I would like to mention that you in your sparring as well as the HEMA-practitioner both are aware of the little risk involved. You can keep really calm at your sparring and do your precise moves. I wonder if a person fighting for his life in a duel could do the same? Nevertheless, keep up the good work Roland!
That sounds very reasonable Ian.
dunno why these kind of shield doesn't feels right in 1 on 1 combat like what you demonstrated here (still an awesome demonstration ofc & whatever that works, it is probably plausible historically). I guess that's why large flat round centergrip shield r best of 1 on 1 combat/raid where you use the shield actively & the buckler continued that role
it also piqued my interest as well since the triangular shield, especially the curved ones (be it kite or heater) is usually considered by most people as some sort hanging armor/passive defense where you just move it a little bit & let your sword do all the works. never comes to my mind that this shield can be used actively on 1 vs 1 unarmoured context depending on the strap configuration
I should try lots of strap configuration on my experimental plywood kite shield XD
Just look into medieval art work to see examples of extended shields in combat.
already look at some of the art. gonna search more of them :D
I provide some here: facebook.com/pg/Dimicator-266934476773420/photos/?tab=album&album_id=326095754190625
don't mind me if I'm droolin' while looking at those configuration XD thanks a lot. I definitely can drill some more holes at my experimental kite shield & try most of these configurations before I'm trying to make the real deal :D
This is what I did, too.
I am still wondering a bit about the Viking Shield with the apparently purposefully thinned edges. I can understand, that it would catch a sword blade, especially a thin one with a lot of punch in the cut, like those Viking swords seem to have. But that seems to be an extremely specialized design.
I assume that battle axes were at least as common as swords. I know they don't have to be made cheaply, but I also assume in a pinch they *could* be much cheaper, less metal, probably even less smithing technique required for the much smaller blade.
Plus, with the added possibilities of either hooking the opponents shield or stabilizing your own shield with the head of your axe supporting the rim, I wonder how much the fighting style would have to adapt, when encountering an opponent with axe and shield versus sword and shield. Will all the same conclusions still hold?
This is exactly right.
You are asking the wrong question, I am inclined to say. Instead of questioning delicate shields that do not live up to our ideas of combat, we should much rather question our ideas of combat. Because apparently, there is exactly zero evidence for shields that are as thick and heavy as those that are commonly used in modern combat sports. Personally, I can only repeat what I said before: Attacking a shield is not a good idea. Levering open a shield is a different story, and is probably exactly what was employed in historical combat.
+BusterXXXL One last thing (not necessarily about viking shields just a general.) there's a reason shield edge thickness is heavily regulated in Buhurt (was just watching Buhurt, can't help myself.) so perhaps not too specialized.
+7dayspking as so was I watching buhurt and well, everything is heavily regulated which actually results in weapons often 1.5-2 times heavier than their historical counterparts. But as it so happens people are rather safe in these contexts, so it's good for them.
+High Master Johannes Liechtenauer I think those weapons are heavier on purpose hahaha but I was actually talking about the context in the comment. That a thinner edge might make a shield even more dangerous and that danger is definitely a factor being considered by Buhurt governing bodies when they regulate minimum shield thickness. The original comment suggested that thin edges of shields seemed too 'specialized' to be realistic and I was suggesting it wasn't _that_ specialized.
Those look like Kite shields.
Those type of shields are the direct descendents of kite shields so you are correct in noticing the similarities
Kite shields have rounded top edges, in contrast to triangular shield designs.
are these fencing tecniques of that period or is a reconstruction?
jack forester This is reconstruction, using techniques from later period sources, as we don't have any fencing sources about this fighting from this period
+RKcousins625 thanks
Actually, the techniques employed are contemporary with the shield design I am using, only the according fighting treatise (ca. 1330) is for duelling with sword and buckler, not triangle shield. Interestingly, sword and buckler where extremely popular at the time, and they prove to be an excellent preparation for using a triangle shield. If you can master the buckler, the bigger shields are easy, according to my experience.
+Roland Warzecha thanks a lot, very precise
Jack, you are welcome.
Stick to making shields and stop embarass all of us with your "fencing".
maybe more explanation?
a lot of "uhm"s in your videos. Try to avoid it maybe.
I don't really undertand why the fighting sequences have to be so dark. Only makes it harder to follow.
My German is more fluent.
One would hope so ;)
Roland Warzecha "more fluent", he says, when using such fine vocabulary with every sentence. I'm almost afraid of what "more fluent" in German means in your case.
Hahaha. Thank you.
He speaks English better than most English-speakers I know.
I know verbal tics and hesitations can be distracting, but you can probably learn to ignore them if you try and it's just not reasonable to expect someone, especially a non-native speaker, to speak without them. Humans just don't function that way naturally.