I'm finally getting the hang of doing this, although it's meant I've had to adjust my anchor point slightly. I was so hung up during my beginner class about touching the corner of my mouth that I didn't factor in my forearms being just too short/shoulders being just too wide to actually reach the corner of my mouth when my elbow is that far back. Touching just behind my mouth instead of going "must reach corner of mouth at all costs" has helped a lot, though :)
Good video, though I would have clarified that while modern forms of archery are done perfectly upright, many historical forms adopted a leaning posture in order to use particularly heavy draw weights.
I used to have this problem, though the way I dumbbell row for lat development generally is low/towards the hips (vs high, which is more so the traps), so I was using my back to still support the weight (though a different back muscle group) yet alignment was bad for the release. Therefore I immediately made it a cue to make sure my elbow is up and things quickly improved. As for expanding, I started varying pressing tension in my bow arm (essentially to lengthen myself horizontally as I release as both arms are actively moving outwards) and have had some success with heavier tension (in my triceps, btw, my bow hand is relaxed), but is wondering if my change is the cause or am I getting the result from the wrong method as it hasn't necessarily been consistent.
NU sensei, I have a question. The only bow I could afford was a survival bow that has no gap or indication of where I should hold the arrow while shooting it, in that case should I try to hold it near the center of the bow or somewhere else ? What's the proper angle while shooting this kind of bow ? Should it be vertical or a little bit diagonal, sometimes it feels like I get better results putting an angle at the bow. Thanks in advance, here in Brazil archery it's not really a common thing and I'm learning a lot from your videos. I don't know if you have a video on the subject but if you don't I would be pleased if you made one
Survival bows often have no distinct grip, so hold it close to the centre where you can. For angle, both vertical and canted are fine. Most barebow shooters shoot with an angled bow for better visibility, but use whatever you can do consistently.
Ishi, the last Yahi Indian, shot with more arrows held in the armpit of right hand. That forces you to super-chickenwing. For him it was not a mistake, and he was "professional bow hunter" you would say. I understand that it is a mistake from olympic archery point of view, but keep in mind that too many excellent archers in the past did exactly the same and were still excellent.
On the same note, the high elbow is not exclusive to modern Olympic archery. Numerous styles around the world use a higher elbow in their technique. The shortened draw tends to be more common in tribal-style archery, including Native American, Polynesian, etc.
Yeah, it's just ... a lot of archers criticise half-draw, but South African natives normally use it. Robert Ascham criticised drawing bow to the chest, yet ancient Greek did it. Medieval Arabs criticised mediterranean draw, yet it was successfully used in European warfare. Almost any archery "mistake" was in fact normal and successful somewhere in history. I think it is important to know that there are (and were) many different "use cases" for bows, and each has its own requirements, often very different from others. It's just my point. Nothing against you, I like what you do. And I appreciate how (in most recent video) you can talk about Lars Andersen and make good points without either ranting or super-praising him :-) Too few people can do it nowadays.
That's what I have to do is work on my form. I got my wife a 30 pound only so that I don't feel so bad. Stacking the deck. Mine is a 50 but I draw about 47. When in the weight room I use the cross over trying to feel where that pull muscle connection. I'll have to use this video a few times one's I can feel it and make it automatic then take another draw weight check again bet I can get that 50 out of this bow if my form was right 😀
nusensei, terima kasih (thank you) for all of videos. i did tried to do so, but can't get my drawing elbow to the right position. is my bow too short? or should i modify the string?
Sometimes, when a newbie can't achieve full draw, I tell them to make sure their arm when drawing rises above eye level before traveling back. Arm over, chest out! The mantra doesn't always work, but it does help the less stubborn newbies.
Thanks for the video I started archery a month ago and I had this problem a lot for the first week. This video made me realize I looked so dumb doing it that way 😂
I am sure you have been asked this before, but have you heard of the KSL Shot Cycle or the B.E.S.T. method (the same thing by a different name)? It's described here: kisiklee.com/files/6/TA-BEST_Pt1_-_English.pdf . This method would suggest your elbow is sometimes too high, and that you could better use your lower, stronger back muscles that the weaker upper shoulder methods than what you were showing here. If I had to pick on thing, it is the flicking of your release hand that your sometimes have. I am not saying the method shown as correct was terrible, but I think it could be improved, as we should all strive to do.
A couple of things: 1) KSL's method or BEST is *a* method, not *the* method. It is a system developed by a successful coach and used successfully by archers, but it isn't the definitive method of shooting. For every archer using BEST at competitive level, there's someone who competes at top level who doesn't. KSL's methods are well documented and published, and taught as standard in the US, so it's easy to refer to. However, he differs in many regards to methods outlined in the WA coaching manual and other national coaching systems. Great read and reference though - I've read both his Total Archery books. 2) The BEST method is *specifically* for Olympic-style shooting, not traditional shooting. Different equipment, different anchor points. Using the jaw anchor as is more common in Olympic archery will bring the elbow lower. The principle of using more back muscle is accurate, but I would not necessarily apply BEST outside of what it was intended to build up.
I just understood what it means to release while you're expanding. Only took three straight months of frustration, but now I don't pluck 50%of my shots anymore
I just bought a samick sage and it fixed all my problems
I’ve been thinking about how to fix this issue and you just did it. What a boss dude :)
Excellent video, you always have great points. You are a fantastic help to this beginner.
I've shot my Sage for a couple of years now, it is still my go-to bow. Always as accurate as the person shooting it... : - D
i sold my 55lbs flatbow and bought 40lbs flatbow and that fixed my chicken wing problem recommend this solution it sure works.
Awesome, new news for me
I'm finally getting the hang of doing this, although it's meant I've had to adjust my anchor point slightly. I was so hung up during my beginner class about touching the corner of my mouth that I didn't factor in my forearms being just too short/shoulders being just too wide to actually reach the corner of my mouth when my elbow is that far back. Touching just behind my mouth instead of going "must reach corner of mouth at all costs" has helped a lot, though :)
Love your videos
Good video, though I would have clarified that while modern forms of archery are done perfectly upright, many historical forms adopted a leaning posture in order to use particularly heavy draw weights.
Omg your videos are rly helping me :33 also love the War Thunder videos !! XD
Very informative.
looks like I have to get a camera and film myself ... I suspect I do suffer this :-)
I used to have this problem, though the way I dumbbell row for lat development generally is low/towards the hips (vs high, which is more so the traps), so I was using my back to still support the weight (though a different back muscle group) yet alignment was bad for the release. Therefore I immediately made it a cue to make sure my elbow is up and things quickly improved.
As for expanding, I started varying pressing tension in my bow arm (essentially to lengthen myself horizontally as I release as both arms are actively moving outwards) and have had some success with heavier tension (in my triceps, btw, my bow hand is relaxed), but is wondering if my change is the cause or am I getting the result from the wrong method as it hasn't necessarily been consistent.
NU sensei, I have a question. The only bow I could afford was a survival bow that has no gap or indication of where I should hold the arrow while shooting it, in that case should I try to hold it near the center of the bow or somewhere else ? What's the proper angle while shooting this kind of bow ? Should it be vertical or a little bit diagonal, sometimes it feels like I get better results putting an angle at the bow. Thanks in advance, here in Brazil archery it's not really a common thing and I'm learning a lot from your videos. I don't know if you have a video on the subject but if you don't I would be pleased if you made one
Survival bows often have no distinct grip, so hold it close to the centre where you can. For angle, both vertical and canted are fine. Most barebow shooters shoot with an angled bow for better visibility, but use whatever you can do consistently.
Ishi, the last Yahi Indian, shot with more arrows held in the armpit of right hand. That forces you to super-chickenwing. For him it was not a mistake, and he was "professional bow hunter" you would say. I understand that it is a mistake from olympic archery point of view, but keep in mind that too many excellent archers in the past did exactly the same and were still excellent.
On the same note, the high elbow is not exclusive to modern Olympic archery. Numerous styles around the world use a higher elbow in their technique. The shortened draw tends to be more common in tribal-style archery, including Native American, Polynesian, etc.
Yeah, it's just ... a lot of archers criticise half-draw, but South African natives normally use it. Robert Ascham criticised drawing bow to the chest, yet ancient Greek did it. Medieval Arabs criticised mediterranean draw, yet it was successfully used in European warfare. Almost any archery "mistake" was in fact normal and successful somewhere in history. I think it is important to know that there are (and were) many different "use cases" for bows, and each has its own requirements, often very different from others.
It's just my point. Nothing against you, I like what you do. And I appreciate how (in most recent video) you can talk about Lars Andersen and make good points without either ranting or super-praising him :-) Too few people can do it nowadays.
that compressed draw just looks physically painful
I regretted using a 45# bow for the demonstration. You can seriously do some damage.
That's what I have to do is work on my form. I got my wife a 30 pound only so that I don't feel so bad. Stacking the deck. Mine is a 50 but I draw about 47.
When in the weight room I use the cross over trying to feel where that pull muscle connection. I'll have to use this video a few times one's I can feel it and make it automatic then take another draw weight check again bet I can get that 50 out of this bow if my form was right 😀
I try to put my arm back but I almost feel not flexible enough.. weird
nusensei, terima kasih (thank you) for all of videos. i did tried to do so, but can't get my drawing elbow to the right position. is my bow too short? or should i modify the string?
The string won't make a difference. I don't know how long your bow is.
Sometimes, when a newbie can't achieve full draw, I tell them to make sure their arm when drawing rises above eye level before traveling back.
Arm over, chest out!
The mantra doesn't always work, but it does help the less stubborn newbies.
Thanks for the video I started archery a month ago and I had this problem a lot for the first week. This video made me realize I looked so dumb doing it that way 😂
I am sure you have been asked this before, but have you heard of the KSL Shot Cycle or the B.E.S.T. method (the same thing by a different name)? It's described here: kisiklee.com/files/6/TA-BEST_Pt1_-_English.pdf . This method would suggest your elbow is sometimes too high, and that you could better use your lower, stronger back muscles that the weaker upper shoulder methods than what you were showing here. If I had to pick on thing, it is the flicking of your release hand that your sometimes have.
I am not saying the method shown as correct was terrible, but I think it could be improved, as we should all strive to do.
A couple of things:
1) KSL's method or BEST is *a* method, not *the* method. It is a system developed by a successful coach and used successfully by archers, but it isn't the definitive method of shooting. For every archer using BEST at competitive level, there's someone who competes at top level who doesn't. KSL's methods are well documented and published, and taught as standard in the US, so it's easy to refer to. However, he differs in many regards to methods outlined in the WA coaching manual and other national coaching systems. Great read and reference though - I've read both his Total Archery books.
2) The BEST method is *specifically* for Olympic-style shooting, not traditional shooting. Different equipment, different anchor points. Using the jaw anchor as is more common in Olympic archery will bring the elbow lower. The principle of using more back muscle is accurate, but I would not necessarily apply BEST outside of what it was intended to build up.
I just understood what it means to release while you're expanding. Only took three straight months of frustration, but now I don't pluck 50%of my shots anymore
I'm still within first 2 months, maybe not even, I hope I can get there too
:-D
"not everyone has the flexibility to do this,". Lol I've actually got the other side of the problem (too much flexibility)
Good Lord that thumbnail makes me cringe so hard. When we have new people who do this I manually have to guide their elbow back when they draw
Lars Anderson doesn't have these problems...
Waltham1892 somehow i doubt his bow is heavy enough for this to be problematic. also, i have not seen him shooting over 10m.