Wow, Randy putting the wood to us! An excellent sermon. And, yeah, Randy is making it clear this isn’t a “speech” at some competition, but a sermon inspired by the Holy Spirit and one doesn’t applaud those.
Mark, yes, excellent sermon however please note Dean Randy subsequently was 'putting the marshmallow' of reminding people to please utilise the expression "Amen". 🙂
(unfortunately it seems I'm definitely getting old, now a third edit here, sorry yet again) Sorry for previously making light of your advice to me about another conversation of mine because I now see how one of my comments there could be misinterpreted by other readers (the possibility of which I unfortunately didn't think to take into account also). In my conversation with Susan, my comment that's prefaced with: ("applicability"), is in fact edited for the second time ("applicability" being the second edit) and so I didn't think it was necessary to apologise to Susan a second time for making an edit (having apologised on the first occasion for making an edit in which I also explained that unfortunately my Edit function doesn't work [due to my iPad operating system being unable to be updated]) (my apology in the main part of that comment to Susan refers to her previous reply to me). Once again, sorry for not seeing that the way in which that comment now appears, could be misinterpreted by other readers.
As always an insightful sermon. Also, appreciate your remark regarding clapping. I have been amazed at the amount of clapping that takes place inappropriately during church services. I think some people think they are a concert or a play. Thanks for wonderful words and for all do in your ministry.
I am not sure Randy was totally excluding clapping in the Cathedral as much as making the point for us to “practice what he preached” as opposed to merely applauding it. This is no easy feat these days. I took home a copy of the Deseret magazine which was offered before the With Malice Toward None forum and found a lot of wisdom in its pages, especially the article on MLK Jr’s Letter from Birmingham Jail. Randy’s sermon and those articles pointed me more to introspection rather than recognition of the words for words’ sake. Amen!
Susan, I'm glad you got a lot out of Dean Randy's sermon and the other sources you mentioned. Please be assured there's no cause for you to feel disproportionately guilty (assuming you do) about any failings you, like me and all other fundamentally good people, may have towards other fundamentally good people. The ability to see that genuine love and total love are always the same thing, is an acquired ability only. Until a fundamentally good person has acquired the ability to see this, that person can only attempt to maintain his/her belief that it is so. This is because acquiring the ability to see this, is dependent upon the person experiencing a happening that gives the person this perspective. Therefore until a fundamentally good person has acquired the ability to see that genuine love and total love are always the same thing, by definition that person doesn't have the ability to maintain his/her belief that it is so.
("applicability") Susan, so sorry if you took my comment to mean anything otherwise. Please note that my intention was to advise of the lack of applicability of (and therefore the lack of necessity for) any disproportionate introspection (where it may exist).
Thank you, Dean Randy, for so thoughtfully bringing up the inappropriate nature of applauding the sermon. I'm sure this new post-COVID trend has been quite bothersome to the Cathedral Clergy, and I am glad that it's been mentioned publicly. Sermons encourage us to act on our faith, and we can celebrate/acknowledge those callings by acting on them. Randy proves yet again that he is a compassionate and incredibly thoughtful leader.
What? I've been attending services at the Cathedral for 25 years, and it's often the clergy themselves who lead us in applauding a sermon by a guest preacher. A fabulous Black guest preacher once (teasingly) criticized us for not encouraging him by saying "Amen!" during his sermon.
Stunned by Randy Hollerith's criticism of applause, I found this online-- The preaching of John Chrysostom 1,600 years ago troubled people of nobility but was cheered by the masses. Chrysostom’s sermons often were interrupted by applause. On one occasion, he urged to his congregation to discontinue the practice. The worshippers, moved by his appeal, applauded! A case can be made in favor of applause. First, our spiritual ancestors brought their hands together to make noisy praise to God. “Clap your hands, all you peoples; shout to God with loud songs of joy” (Psalm 47:1). This imperative suggests ancient Israel invited clapping as a regular worship practice. Second, healthy worship is dynamic. It is an opportunity to employ all our senses as a response to the grandeur and grace of God. Applause adds sound to worship. It stimulates our aural sense. Third, applause is the primary way groups in our culture express affirmation and agreement. Applause is to some worshippers what a chorus of “amens” is to others. It allows the congregation to participate in worship and announces the congregation agrees with the substance of what is read, said or sung. Randy has encouraged us to listen to one another. Having listened to his sermon, I hope he will "listen" to this feedback.
I so agree! He reprimanded the congregation for being moved by his words, clear inspired by God. They were moved and applauded, giving God the glory! Rev. Hollerith, that applause wasn’t for you, it was for our Lord, you were just the instrument that it came through!
@@suegundisalvus1152 Thanks so much! I'm glad it's not just me. And you probably noticed the irony that he began with Jesus losing his temper in the Temple, and ended up seeming short-tempered with the congregation, who deeply love him. We don't want to go back to the days when Episcopalians were God's "frozen people."
Richard & Sue, thanks for your concern however please note I'm sure Dean Randy is well aware of the congregation's very spiritual intentions by their applause. Please also note that, as Dean though, it's his responsibility (in WNC) to remind those who may have forgotten that during a service (as distinct from a non-service event such as a sacred concert, like Handel's Messiah) that the spiritually appropriate means of conveying agreement and appreciation is by the expression "Amen" (which in fact has that literal meaning) 🙂
@@michaelswan2991 Thank you, Michael. Years ago, a preacher at the Cathedral told the story of a Black woman who kept interrupting the sermon with shouts of "Amen!", "Hallelujah!"; etc. An usher asked her to be quiet. She replied, "But when I listen to him preach, I feel the Holy Spirit!" The usher told her, "This is an Episcopal cathedral--you can't feel the Holy Spirit here."
Thank you, Sir.
You are an amazing speaker, Father Randy! God Bless You for a wonderful sermon that mirrors the way I feel. 😊❤🙏
I wish that dean Randy would minister more often.
I SO agree.
I'm 74, and this is the first time I've heard a minister explain why the money-changers were there in the temple. Thank you!
Dean Hollerith is this thoughtful servant of God.
Wow, Randy putting the wood to us! An excellent sermon. And, yeah, Randy is making it clear this isn’t a “speech” at some competition, but a sermon inspired by the Holy Spirit and one doesn’t applaud those.
Mark, yes, excellent sermon however please note Dean Randy subsequently was 'putting the marshmallow' of reminding people to please utilise the expression "Amen". 🙂
From the looks of things in other comment threads, you may be here to only argue? I’m not interested in a fight…especially after watching this.
(unfortunately it seems I'm definitely getting old, now a third edit here, sorry yet again)
Sorry for previously making light of your advice to me about another conversation of mine because I now see how one of my comments there could be misinterpreted by other readers (the possibility of which I unfortunately didn't think to take into account also). In my conversation with Susan, my comment that's prefaced with: ("applicability"), is in fact edited for the second time ("applicability" being the second edit) and so I didn't think it was necessary to apologise to Susan a second time for making an edit (having apologised on the first occasion for making an edit in which I also explained that unfortunately my Edit function doesn't work [due to my iPad operating system being unable to be updated]) (my apology in the main part of that comment to Susan refers to her previous reply to me). Once again, sorry for not seeing that the way in which that comment now appears, could be misinterpreted by other readers.
As always an insightful sermon. Also, appreciate your remark regarding clapping. I have been amazed at the amount of clapping that takes place inappropriately during church services. I think some people think they are a concert or a play. Thanks for wonderful words and for all do in your ministry.
I am not sure Randy was totally excluding clapping in the Cathedral as much as making the point for us to “practice what he preached” as opposed to merely applauding it. This is no easy feat these days. I took home a copy of the Deseret magazine which was offered before the With Malice Toward None forum and found a lot of wisdom in its pages, especially the article on MLK Jr’s Letter from Birmingham Jail. Randy’s sermon and those articles pointed me more to introspection rather than recognition of the words for words’ sake. Amen!
Susan, I'm glad you got a lot out of Dean Randy's sermon and the other sources you mentioned. Please be assured there's no cause for you to feel disproportionately guilty (assuming you do) about any failings you, like me and all other fundamentally good people, may have towards other fundamentally good people. The ability to see that genuine love and total love are always the same thing, is an acquired ability only. Until a fundamentally good person has acquired the ability to see this, that person can only attempt to maintain his/her belief that it is so. This is because acquiring the ability to see this, is dependent upon the person experiencing a happening that gives the person this perspective. Therefore until a fundamentally good person has acquired the ability to see that genuine love and total love are always the same thing, by definition that person doesn't have the ability to maintain his/her belief that it is so.
Michael, introspection on the part of the flock is the sign of a good sermon.
("applicability")
Susan, so sorry if you took my comment to mean anything otherwise. Please note that my intention was to advise of the lack of applicability of (and therefore the lack of necessity for) any disproportionate introspection (where it may exist).
Michael, stop.
Sorry Susan for wrongly assuming you may have needed the advice. I'm really glad you don't.
Thank you, Dean Randy, for so thoughtfully bringing up the inappropriate nature of applauding the sermon. I'm sure this new post-COVID trend has been quite bothersome to the Cathedral Clergy, and I am glad that it's been mentioned publicly. Sermons encourage us to act on our faith, and we can celebrate/acknowledge those callings by acting on them. Randy proves yet again that he is a compassionate and incredibly thoughtful leader.
What? I've been attending services at the Cathedral for 25 years, and it's often the clergy themselves who lead us in applauding a sermon by a guest preacher. A fabulous Black guest preacher once (teasingly) criticized us for not encouraging him by saying "Amen!" during his sermon.
Yes, he did indeed say that, but I disagree with him.
@@richardwaugaman1505 I see no issue with applauding a guest preacher. That's pretty normal practice. He's talking about sermons GENERALLY.
Thanks, Matt. Yes, that is a meaningful distinction. And thank you for being a role model of dialogue rather than debate.@@mattshfraser
Stunned by Randy Hollerith's criticism of applause, I found this online--
The preaching of John Chrysostom 1,600 years ago troubled people of nobility but was cheered by the masses. Chrysostom’s sermons often were interrupted by applause. On one occasion, he urged to his congregation to discontinue the practice. The worshippers, moved by his appeal, applauded!
A case can be made in favor of applause.
First, our spiritual ancestors brought their hands together to make noisy praise to God. “Clap your hands, all you peoples; shout to God with loud songs of joy” (Psalm 47:1). This imperative suggests ancient Israel invited clapping as a regular worship practice.
Second, healthy worship is dynamic. It is an opportunity to employ all our senses as a response to the grandeur and grace of God. Applause adds sound to worship. It stimulates our aural sense.
Third, applause is the primary way groups in our culture express affirmation and agreement. Applause is to some worshippers what a chorus of “amens” is to others. It allows the congregation to participate in worship and announces the congregation agrees with the substance of what is read, said or sung.
Randy has encouraged us to listen to one another. Having listened to his sermon, I hope he will "listen" to this feedback.
I so agree! He reprimanded the congregation for being moved by his words, clear inspired by God. They were moved and applauded, giving God the glory! Rev. Hollerith, that applause wasn’t for you, it was for our Lord, you were just the instrument that it came through!
@@suegundisalvus1152 Thanks so much! I'm glad it's not just me. And you probably noticed the irony that he began with Jesus losing his temper in the Temple, and ended up seeming short-tempered with the congregation, who deeply love him.
We don't want to go back to the days when Episcopalians were God's "frozen people."
Richard & Sue, thanks for your concern however please note I'm sure Dean Randy is well aware of the congregation's very spiritual intentions by their applause. Please also note that, as Dean though, it's his responsibility (in WNC) to remind those who may have forgotten that during a service (as distinct from a non-service event such as a sacred concert, like Handel's Messiah) that the spiritually appropriate means of conveying agreement and appreciation is by the expression "Amen" (which in fact has that literal meaning) 🙂
@@michaelswan2991 Thank you, Michael. Years ago, a preacher at the Cathedral told the story of a Black woman who kept interrupting the sermon with shouts of "Amen!", "Hallelujah!"; etc. An usher asked her to be quiet. She replied, "But when I listen to him preach, I feel the Holy Spirit!" The usher told her, "This is an Episcopal cathedral--you can't feel the Holy Spirit here."
Clearly the preacher didn't object. 🙂