Stories of mishandled ancient manuscripts genuinely activate an adrenal response in me. Imagining something precious surviving relatively intact for 1,600 years, only to end up in an idiot's freezer spikes my blood pressure.
Can you even IMAGINE what would have been destroyed in the Library of Alexandria! Probably many records of ancient forgotten civilisations lost forever 😢
This is one of my favorite podcasts. The synergy between Megan and Bart is exquisite. Love this, and it is so informative to us who are curious about the history of Christianity's formative years, and beyond. Good work~!
Doc, I think the things you talked about concerning "Gospel of Judas" make far more sense than anything I was ever taught or drilled to believe in that bible. Truth is I got in trouble with a Nun in about 1960, maybe 5th grade or so when I pointed out that if Judas didn't fulfill his task of turning over Jesus to the law then redemption would never had happened. She beat me for that one. LOL
@@paulkoza8652Here in the UK the C of E is in the middle of another child abuse scandal with the Archbishop of Canterbury just resigning. I just keep thinking about the phrase 'Suffer the little children'!
I was thrown out of class when I pointed out to my elementary school catholic religion teacher (at the age of 7 or 8) that the whole virgin birth thing might be a mistranslation of sorts. If she had been allowed to beat me, she probably would have.
WOW! How informative can you get! I read the Gospel of Judas back in 2006 and got a huge kick out of it then! So didn’t one of my brothers whose son (my nephew) thought he’d like to choose “Judas” for his Confirmation name. 🤭 It wasn’t long there after where none of us stayed as practicing Roman Catholics. Years later, I’d always thought Elaine Pagels or Karen King authored the book! (I’d given my copy to my brother and he never returned it😆). I was pleasantly surprised to not only learn today that Bart was largely responsible for the book’s publication but the inspiring exegesis of its translation! Many thank-you’s, Bart! And for Megan always on target with her astute questions!😃😍🥰🤩👍👍
I think Kazantzakis's Last Temptation of Christ deserves a nod for having a similar view of Judas as the strongest apostle, long before this gospel was discovered.
Kazantzakis got numerous death threats because of the film. I bet at the end he regretted shooting it. But it is a marvelous film !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i am a christian Coptic Egyptian my blood pressure reached a high level that haven't ever reached before because of what happened in the manuscript in the first 17 minutes of the video and i wondered how many bible first and second century many scripts were wasted out of ignorance and greed of those trash
@@crinolynneendymion8755 it seems that you know nothing about my people history during the past 2000 years , if you know anything about it you wouldn't have said that statement
It's a blessing that you are such a scholar in christianity, but I wonder why your acadamic deeply rooted search for truth did not take you to the path of comparative religion, particularly Islam. Am personally intrested to what you may come up with, which for sure would be an eluminating addition
@@zeinabelsakhawy2216 hello zeinab , are you talking to me ?!, I am neither a scholar in Christianity nor have made an academic deeply rooted search , I have never claimed that i have done so. regarding why i haven't considered islam before, the most obvious and simple thing out of hundreds of things is that islam haven't brought any thing new even the 7th century illiterate pagans living in the arabian peninsula told mohamed that he was just repeating the old legends and added nothing new , the question is how people in the 21th century more knowledgeable people haven't gotten it yet.
@@CopticPrince-hh2yi It seems you know nothing about sarcasm. That was an example to show how ludicrous, pompous and arrogant your critique of someone who was only do the best he could. You can have all the knowledge about a niche subject you like but you won't know everything. Get some humility. And clearly your people had other priorities and couldn't take care of things. Perfect analogy.
This is a really great episode, best yet. So much more information than we had previously got about the Gospel of Judas. Unless we had read Bart's book on it obvs
Yea ive heard most of it from other videos with Bart but there was some new things in this one anyway, like the part of how different interpretations has come around of Judas position in the text and such.
What if I said that Jesus was a fairytale? I imagine you might get mad and come at me with a weapon. At which point ironically I might scream "Jesus Christ!". If we can agree on one thing it's that the world is a bummer. We are doing good enough. All hail the bummer
“I think I saw it 20 years ago.” Can you imagine the a crushing desolation of having glimpsed a lost gospel for five minutes once and spending the next two decades not knowing if it was lost again or stolen or smoked? IIRC, the Judas Gospel was even just kept in a New York safety deposit box for a few years before being shown again to Dr. Emmel.
Finally, "bar enash" (it was an eye opener for me when I read Imperial Aramaic) -- are you sure you wanted to get into that :)? I agree with your example, but it may provoke many more questions! It might be a good podcast on its own.
Another thing is that apostle Peter took and he said...... (according to what is shown written anyway in Acts 2:34-35 verses) that king David said, 'The Lord said to my Lord sit at my right hand until i make your enemies a footstool for your feet.'
In Plato’s dialogues Socrates often speaks of his daimon and it not evil but on the contrary a benevolent spirit that guides Socrates toward truth. At least that’s my recollection, it’s been forever since I read Plato. These discussions are so interesting. I love the joy they both take in discussing these issues.
Daimon is a neutral term, like 'spirit'. When Greeks wanted to make clear the spirit was evil, they have a word for that, 'Cacodaimon'. And they also had "Eudaimon" for good spirits.
Wasn’t Judas destined to betray Jesus. Surely god planned the whole ordeal, or at least saw it in the future, so Judas was going to betray Jesus to serve the plan. He was more like poor Job, used by god to accomplish some task and then called evil.
Nikos Kazantzakis' novel The Last Temptation of Christ, and Martin Scorsese's movie based on it, also feature Judas as Jesus' best friend and closest discipline. Other than this, it's pretty conventional in its Christology and theology. There's a very moving scene in the movie, where Jesus says to Judas that he has to turn him in, to fulfill God's plan. Judas says he doesn't want to betray his best friend. Jesus says, "You have to. God gave you this task because you're stronger than I am. All I have to do is die on the Cross." This story also identifies Mary Magdalene with the woman taken in adultery. Jesus and Magdalene were close friends as small children. When they grew up, Magdalene fell in love with Jesus, Jesus rejected her sexual desire for him, and she reacted by becoming a prostitute. I don't want to say anymore and spoil it for you in case you want to read the novel or watch the movie, both of which I highly recommend.
Honestly, pretty weird. OK, Christian orthodoxy, and its establishment, have their problems (to say the least). But the Gnostic world-view is highly elitist, and radically disconnected from any natural relationship to the world we find ourselves in. Gnosticism, and indeed neo-Platonism, are just weird.
As soon as the Gospel of Judas appeared and was published by NatGeo I translated it into my native tongue of Norwegian. I wanted people to see and read. It was quite obvious that both the narrator and narrative deviated quite a lot from the four canonical Gospels and was far from the standard fare. Anyway, no doubt that Judas was a gnostic take and thus one of the earliest heresies in primitive church. My take: About as exciting as looking for Christ’s family in old Parisian churches.
The Gospel of Judas appears to be a rational response to the state of humanity. Why would you worship or give praise to anyone or anything that put us in this “bloodthirsty realm” here on earth. Sometimes it truly feels as if this reality were created by a demon and ruled over by fools and lower creatures.
Well now that I accept evolution and a scientific worldview, I no longer need to rationalize about the motivations of a creator. Though sometimes U still find it useful to metaphorically think in that way. Bet I just wants humans to use science to make the best of life that we can. But when so many humans are still caught up in dogmatic religious belief, that is difficult. So, if religious people could begin to contrast shades of variation in different approaches to religion, maybe that can help to break the spell.
Being that Megan and Bart are now dressing alike, maybe she should buy him new glasses, but I do not know what to do about his hair color??? Love the show!
He's described this process before on this channel but not with Megan interviewing from what I recall... "Lost Gospel of Judas Iscariot at RSE 2013" is the video title
One seer prophet mentioned Judas is in heaven. Judas was sorry in his final hour to the point he committed suicide. Judas preached the gospel in sheol & Jesus saved him. Now Judas prays & intercedes for those who has depression & suicidal. Glory to God!
The segment is interesting though it is not clear to me how special this specific gospel is. There was a bit of trend to use "bad guys" as well as outsiders (such as Mary Magadalne/a woman) to show how the now orthodox interpretation was wrong. So Cainites. The use of Judas alone in that sense was not totally shocking especially if you figure Jesus had to die which even some non-Gnostics talk about. BTW, since Paul doesn't even reference Judas, I don't know how much we can totally be sure about regarding his life.
So if heaven and hell actually exist on some other plane of existence I think this gospel confirms we already live in hell just without the escape part.
Regardless of its biblical accuracy, I think the story of Judas is interesting. He is the ultimate bad guy of the new testament, but we don't get to hear his side of the story. I'm anxious to hear future episodes about this gospel.
In the book of Acts king David took and prophecied (according to what apostle Peter took and said) king David prophecied about ("Judas Iscariot,") betraying the messiah
been aware of the Manichaean Heresy for years... and there has been presentation of Judas as a sympathetic character due to his necessary role in the story of the Passion. so this was a very interesting wrinkle on early christian faith...
If Jesus' death was predestined as the ultimate sacrifice to atone for humanity's sins, and Judas facilitated this divine plan-playing a critical role in what many Christians today view as the cornerstone of salvation-why is Judas vilified instead of venerated? Should he not be considered a saint of the highest order for enabling the fulfillment of God’s will? After all, didn’t the other disciples fail Jesus in accomplishing his primary mission, showing ignorance and a lack of understanding of his teachings? Furthermore, if you were present during Jesus' time, fully aware of his mission to die as a "human sacrifice" to save humanity, would you strive to save him, risking the derailment of salvation history, or allow his death to proceed, knowing its divine purpose?
Your final question is a fundamental one. And indeed, Judas was a betrayer, and betrayal was a fundamental element in the meaning of Jesus' death. For a believer, this is one of the points where simple, rational, calculus breaks down. And the resolution of that problem is very different, depending on what you believe about salvation and damnation. Not that, I think, resolution is possible.
hi, I'm going to be "that person" and talk about a technical issue, I hope you don't mind - it happened in the previous video and I thought it would be a one-time-thing but it's even worse today - Megan's microphone is picking up a lot of sibilation, it seems to be set too sensitive, and too much in the high/treble range as opposed to low/bass. I guess it shouldn't be too difficult to improve the settings - it's apparently set for picking up low ambient sounds, even the lowest whisper, so it's picking too much at close range. Even moving the mike further away can help. Mind you, I'm no techie, someone familiar with the art (or even the mike manual) may be a great help. LURV the content and you both, by the way!🥰
@@nathanaelsmith3553 I had to look it up, thought I had a vague idea of what it meant. Definitions of sibilation. noun. a fricative sound (especially as an expression of disapproval) synonyms: fizzle, hiss, hissing, hushing. noise.
Personally I wish Bart would just do indepth podcasts/videos on each of the noncanonical books. The canonical ones and Paul are covered so much it gets repetative.
A betrayal by one of Jesus' closest associates never made sense to me. What are you supposed to do with silver in paradise? Why jeopardize the great reward by betraying the messiah? I think the tale was reactionary propaganda against the Jews who rejected Jesus.
Dr James Tabor (among many others) continues to insist that the referent of "the god of this world" in 2 Cor 4:4 is Satan, after the complete absence of the topic of Satan in the pericope or the overall discourse is pointed out. Does Dr Ehrman think Paul had Gnostic-parallel beliefs?
For me NDE's are reliable sources for information unlike organized religion. Consciousness does survive physical death, the only question I have is who are these entities in the astral realm.
First of all, I'm going to agree with you 100% and I'm glad there are other people who think like that. They are a lot of different things in the "astral realm" Some of them are human, some people call some of the things there elementals. Robert Monroe talks about things like suckerfish that try to attach to your spiritual body. I would like to mention two things below that I think are very interesting that relate to either NDEs or Astral travel. “There are some near death experiences that are not pleasant. We don't know how many, because people are more reluctant to talk about the unpleasant ones, but most people who have studied this think that between one and five percent of near death experiences are unpleasant. I have heard of very few that have typical hellish imagery of fire and brimstone and demons. I've only heard that from people who were raised in religions that taught that, some Roman Catholics and Southern Baptists, but there (are) a very small number of those. There's a larger group that have just a sense of being in a black void for eternity, with nothing, no sight, no sound, just your consciousness and nothing else for eternity, which is terrrifying for most americans. Interesting, I've talked to some people who are raised in Hindu cultures and where they experience that as Nirvana. But the vast majority of unpleasant near death experiences are just like the pleasant ones as you described them. But they're experienced in a terrifying way.” -Dr. Bruce Greyson Source: “Are Near-Death Experiences Real?” Out of body experiences (so-called “astral travel”) “Notice that in Figure 6.1 no downward direction is indicated. In analysis of reports from hundreds of subjects we have found only two that discussed a downward-into-hell experience. We believe that these two subjects created this hell-like reality for themselves, probably because they had been so strongly imprinted with the idea of hell from fundamentalist Christian parents. If you find a hell-like domain, we would very much like to know how you did it and its attributes as you perceive them.” Source: “Astral Travel: Your Guide to the Secrets of Out-Of-The-Body”
Jesus on in Matthew says the opposite of what apostle Peter took and said about, ('the Lord said to my Lord sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet,') Jesus says that what king David took and said doesn't make him a descendant of king David.
And what do people think? Do people think that king David was told or had seen ahead of time what would happen to his own ("descendant,") according to what apostle Peter took and claimed on in Acts 2:31 verse about the resurrection of the messiah?
I wondered the same thing, but maybe I'm remembering Bart's discussion with Alex O'Connor, which was equally interesting. ruclips.net/video/d3AwvxzYuj0/видео.htmlsi=02rfejVyNOJnRwiB
I always knew there had to be more lol. How can a guy see another person do incredible miracles and even give you power to do them and than you just betray him for money
Judas is a Saint in the Ethiopian Orthodox Church precisely because Jesus entrusted him with the most difficult and important job of facilitating His martyrdom. As for the language Jesus would've spoken in Court, it would've been in Koine Greek. All elite Romans, Jews and other Mediterranean peoples could read, write and speak Greek. The "Torah" was the Septuagint at this time and was also in Greek, "therefore" Jesus would've been debating the Rabbis at the Temple as a child in Greek(like all good Neo-Platonist at the time would have done, Jew and Gentile alike). Jesus is the also son who is called "out of (Alexandria) Egypt", where he was studying the Mysteries in Greek, and 100% of the New Testament is recorded in Greek, along with His entirely Greek title of "Christ", etc..., etc..... Indeed, there is not a single original, or contemporary letter of the life, times and teaching of "Jesus Christ" that is NOT in Greek. Even Josephus was writing "The History of the Jews"......in Greek. Paul, a "rabbi", wrote his "Letters to the Hebrews".....in Greek. No one of note wrote in Aramaic at this time. So called "Biblical Hebrew" was a long dead language by this time that no "Jew" could even speak as a Mother Tongue and we have no "original" texts in anything other than Greek either. Not Latin. Not Aramaic. Not Hebrew. Not Demotic. Literally nothing. While Jesus likely spoke the Edessan dialect of Syrio-Aramaic as a form of Lingua Franca, none of his official "Acts", or attestations, are recorded in anything except Greek. No one would've taken him "seriously" if he couldn't speak Greek either, in much the same way we don't take people "seriously" if they can't use proper Greek/Latin terminology when discussing Science today. Greek has always meant "elite", "royal", "educated", "sophisticated", "philosophical", "spiritual", etc....from long before the time of Jesus and for many more centuries thereafter.
I really enjoy these intellectual discussions. They are important in themselves, but we should bear in mind that both Testaments, New and Old, are more fantasy than history, regardless of the historical origins of various scriptures.
This first question reveals the Gnostic worldview. Ludwig Noack demostrates from Last Supper in GJohn that the beloved disciple can ONLY be Judas Iscariot. This because GJohn written in Sethian Gnostic milieu which knew Gospel of Thomas.
I always wish that the Library of Alexandria would have been spared during the invasion???? Could you imagine humanity with that wealth of knowledge?????
_Hey Jude, don't make it bad._ _Take a sad song and make it better._ _Remember to let her into your heart,_ _Then you can start to make it better._ _Hey Jude, don't be afraid._ _You were made to go out and get her._ _The minute you let her under your skin,__ _Then you begin to make it better._
And anytime you feel the pain, hey jude, refrain, don't carry the world on your shoulder. For well you know that it's a fool who plays it cool by making his world a little colder
One of my fave episodes! Thank you! The mystery of Judas is one of the biggest in history, and it’s a shame the canonical Christian texts don’t dig into his story- probably the shame factor, because he’s seen as betraying Jesus, but maybe he really didn’t? Those questions pondered, the Gnostic gospels are so bizarre that it’s to imagine anyone believing in these elaborate constructs of universe- regardless of Jesus, or Judas for that matter. The Gospel of Thomas- no canonical, but not noticeably Gnostic is genius that never gets enough spotlight, how about an episode on it? Feels like the yellow brick road of faith, finding faith-that religion isn’t relevant in this journey
I recommend to get acquainted with the scroll of Moses aka Shapira,no code law and there are blessings,blessed one who loves his neighbor,check mate for Christians and Jews
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
Stories of mishandled ancient manuscripts genuinely activate an adrenal response in me. Imagining something precious surviving relatively intact for 1,600 years, only to end up in an idiot's freezer spikes my blood pressure.
I, too, have this response. It's one reason why I hate books being banned or burned. If there's anything in this world that is sacred, it's books.
Same. I wonder if we are missing some laws here. Some harsh, unforgiving laws.
I literally had to be hospitalized after listening to this... proud of that, actually.
@@GlorifiedTruth I really hope you’re feeling better!!!
Can you even IMAGINE what would have been destroyed in the Library of Alexandria! Probably many records of ancient forgotten civilisations lost forever 😢
This is one of my favorite podcasts. The synergy between Megan and Bart is exquisite. Love this, and it is so informative to us who are curious about the history of Christianity's formative years, and beyond. Good work~!
I agree! I work graveyard shift from home and I enjoy watching while I'm working
Doc, I think the things you talked about concerning "Gospel of Judas" make far more sense than anything I was ever taught or drilled to believe in that bible. Truth is I got in trouble with a Nun in about 1960, maybe 5th grade or so when I pointed out that if Judas didn't fulfill his task of turning over Jesus to the law then redemption would never had happened. She beat me for that one. LOL
What's even more important is that god let him do this. God is all knowing. Another reason I no longer believe.
Nun's were famous for their reception of student's ideas. I, too, had some nuns who were very handy with a metal edged, wooden ruler.
@@paulkoza8652Here in the UK the C of E is in the middle of another child abuse scandal with the Archbishop of Canterbury just resigning. I just keep thinking about the phrase 'Suffer the little children'!
I was thrown out of class when I pointed out to my elementary school catholic religion teacher (at the age of 7 or 8) that the whole virgin birth thing might be a mistranslation of sorts. If she had been allowed to beat me, she probably would have.
Yes Judas did his job it seems
WOW! How informative can you get! I read the Gospel of Judas back in 2006 and got a huge kick out of it then! So didn’t one of my brothers whose son (my nephew) thought he’d like to choose “Judas” for his Confirmation name. 🤭 It wasn’t long there after where none of us stayed as practicing Roman Catholics. Years later, I’d always thought Elaine Pagels or Karen King authored the book! (I’d given my copy to my brother and he never returned it😆). I was pleasantly surprised to not only learn today that Bart was largely responsible for the book’s publication but the inspiring exegesis of its translation! Many thank-you’s, Bart! And for Megan always on target with her astute questions!😃😍🥰🤩👍👍
Oh, the jumper coordination was exquisite!😊
Next week Bart is dyeing his beard.
I have been patiently waiting for this 😂❤
Incredible information. Thank you ❤
I think Kazantzakis's Last Temptation of Christ deserves a nod for having a similar view of Judas as the strongest apostle, long before this gospel was discovered.
...do you have the Peter Gabriel's album of music- and mood-setting sounds he composed for THE LAST TEMPTATION..." ?
@@neclark08 Didn't know about that - thanks!
Kazantzakis got numerous death threats because of the film. I bet at the end he regretted shooting it. But it is a marvelous film !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@@narancauk Note that long before the film there was the book.(1955, translated into English 1960).
@@douglashoover6473 Yes , I understand that he insisted that on the second edition on the cover is printed '''THIS IS ONY A STORY''---haahhhhaaaaaa
Hearing everything the manuscript goes through never ceases to be upsetting.
Luck any of it survived though!
Meagan thank you for all your GREAT WORK with Bart
Hey there. Thanks for the compelling retelling of the finding and publishing of this fun gospel.
Fun!? Haha. Which bit!?
i am a christian Coptic Egyptian my blood pressure reached a high level that haven't ever reached before because of what happened in the manuscript in the first 17 minutes of the video and i wondered how many bible first and second century many scripts were wasted out of ignorance and greed of those trash
Then your people back all those centuries ago should have taken better care of their documents.
@@crinolynneendymion8755 it seems that you know nothing about my people history during the past 2000 years , if you know anything about it you wouldn't have said that statement
It's a blessing that you are such a scholar in christianity, but I wonder why your acadamic deeply rooted search for truth did not take you to the path of comparative religion, particularly Islam. Am personally intrested to what you may come up with, which for sure would be an eluminating addition
@@zeinabelsakhawy2216 hello zeinab , are you talking to me ?!, I am neither a scholar in Christianity nor have made an academic deeply rooted search , I have never claimed that i have done so.
regarding why i haven't considered islam before, the most obvious and simple thing out of hundreds of things is that islam haven't brought any thing new even the 7th century illiterate pagans living in the arabian peninsula told mohamed that he was just repeating the old legends and added nothing new , the question is how people in the 21th century more knowledgeable people haven't gotten it yet.
@@CopticPrince-hh2yi It seems you know nothing about sarcasm. That was an example to show how ludicrous, pompous and arrogant your critique of someone who was only do the best he could. You can have all the knowledge about a niche subject you like but you won't know everything. Get some humility. And clearly your people had other priorities and couldn't take care of things. Perfect analogy.
You guys create a very nice dynamic where information flows pleasantly and abundant. Thanks so much
This is a really great episode, best yet. So much more information than we had previously got about the Gospel of Judas. Unless we had read Bart's book on it obvs
This was lovely! Thank you.
Idk if I just listen to so much Bart that I’ve heard this already from him someplace else, but I swear this episode was done already.
He did a video with Alex O’Connor on it
That’s probably what I’m thinking of then
Yea ive heard most of it from other videos with Bart but there was some new things in this one anyway, like the part of how different interpretations has come around of Judas position in the text and such.
Fantastic and helpful episode...many thanks to both of you!!
What if I said that Jesus was a fairytale?
I imagine you might get mad and come at me with a weapon. At which point ironically I might scream "Jesus Christ!".
If we can agree on one thing it's that the world is a bummer. We are doing good enough. All hail the bummer
Clever choice of music.. rising and falling to many expectations; yet always effective..even among sardonic Ehrmanesque impersonators.
“I think I saw it 20 years ago.”
Can you imagine the a crushing desolation of having glimpsed a lost gospel for five minutes once and spending the next two decades not knowing if it was lost again or stolen or smoked?
IIRC, the Judas Gospel was even just kept in a New York safety deposit box for a few years before being shown again to Dr. Emmel.
I love that you’re both wearing gray. It looks like you’re the thing with two heads. Which one is Rosie Greer? 😂😂😂
Yeah, and Bart's earbuds + collar look vaguely vampirish 🤔😍
Finally, "bar enash" (it was an eye opener for me when I read Imperial Aramaic) -- are you sure you wanted to get into that :)? I agree with your example, but it may provoke many more questions! It might be a good podcast on its own.
Another thing is that apostle Peter took and he said...... (according to what is shown written anyway in Acts 2:34-35 verses) that king David said, 'The Lord said to my Lord sit at my right hand until i make your enemies a footstool for your feet.'
The Gospel of Judas is the most theologically comprehensive _Gnostic Christian_ text available.
In Plato’s dialogues Socrates often speaks of his daimon and it not evil but on the contrary a benevolent spirit that guides Socrates toward truth. At least that’s my recollection, it’s been forever since I read Plato. These discussions are so interesting. I love the joy they both take in discussing these issues.
Daimon is a neutral term, like 'spirit'. When Greeks wanted to make clear the spirit was evil, they have a word for that, 'Cacodaimon'. And they also had "Eudaimon" for good spirits.
This was a great episode!
Interesting 😮❤
I'm so glad you guys stopped doing the small talk, and jumped straight into the podcast
Yeah god forbid they waste a second of your valuable time.
I rather enjoyed the small talk, so speak for yourself.
Love the matching jumpers!
Those are sweaters, dude!
@@louisewagenknecht6140I think that's a Brit term, mate.
@@dbarker7794 I know...
Wasn’t Judas destined to betray Jesus. Surely god planned the whole ordeal, or at least saw it in the future, so Judas was going to betray Jesus to serve the plan. He was more like poor Job, used by god to accomplish some task and then called evil.
So Interesting !
Thank You.
Nikos Kazantzakis' novel The Last Temptation of Christ, and Martin Scorsese's movie based on it, also feature Judas as Jesus' best friend and closest discipline. Other than this, it's pretty conventional in its Christology and theology. There's a very moving scene in the movie, where Jesus says to Judas that he has to turn him in, to fulfill God's plan. Judas says he doesn't want to betray his best friend. Jesus says, "You have to. God gave you this task because you're stronger than I am. All I have to do is die on the Cross." This story also identifies Mary Magdalene with the woman taken in adultery. Jesus and Magdalene were close friends as small children. When they grew up, Magdalene fell in love with Jesus, Jesus rejected her sexual desire for him, and she reacted by becoming a prostitute.
I don't want to say anymore and spoil it for you in case you want to read the novel or watch the movie, both of which I highly recommend.
The last temptation of Christ is a fascinating novel and I really enjoyed it when I read it.
There's a scene while Jesus is on the cross, we get a reflection of what he's thinking, and it's pretty heartbreaking. Really good movie.
I wonder what the world would be like if the gnostic traditions had won out in their view of the world?
Gnostic Christianity could easily have died out since it paid poor attention to the material world.
A lot better than it is now I think
Honestly, pretty weird. OK, Christian orthodoxy, and its establishment, have their problems (to say the least). But the Gnostic world-view is highly elitist, and radically disconnected from any natural relationship to the world we find ourselves in. Gnosticism, and indeed neo-Platonism, are just weird.
Fascinating, thank you for sharing
As soon as the Gospel of Judas appeared and was published by NatGeo I translated it into my native tongue of Norwegian. I wanted people to see and read. It was quite obvious that both the narrator and narrative deviated quite a lot from the four canonical Gospels and was far from the standard fare. Anyway, no doubt that Judas was a gnostic take and thus one of the earliest heresies in primitive church.
My take: About as exciting as looking for Christ’s family in old Parisian churches.
I'm not a fan of Alex O'Connor, but he has a very good interview on the gospel with Dr. Ehrman. They went in more detail there.
45:40 ''That is rather extreme''------------------Well. God is extreme more often than not.
The Gospel of Judas appears to be a rational response to the state of humanity. Why would you worship or give praise to anyone or anything that put us in this “bloodthirsty realm” here on earth. Sometimes it truly feels as if this reality were created by a demon and ruled over by fools and lower creatures.
Well now that I accept evolution and a scientific worldview, I no longer need to rationalize about the motivations of a creator. Though sometimes U still find it useful to metaphorically think in that way.
Bet I just wants humans to use science to make the best of life that we can. But when so many humans are still caught up in dogmatic religious belief, that is difficult.
So, if religious people could begin to contrast shades of variation in different approaches to religion, maybe that can help to break the spell.
I thought
Meagan and Bart were beginning to merge.
Then i noticed that their swaeter were nearly identical fabric.
Was this a plan or happenstance?
Oh man, now I can't unsee that movie about the man with two heads.
Wonderfully informative as usual….. I note that none of the supposed founders of the major religions were renowned for their sense of humour 😂
Being that Megan and Bart are now dressing alike, maybe she should buy him new glasses, but I do not know what to do about his hair color??? Love the show!
😅
Wonder why the gospel of Judas is not included in the canonized of 27 books in New Testament.
One of my favorite episodes.
I remember hearing this story from Bart Ehrmann. Is this a repeat of a previous video, be it from this channel or any other channel?
Definitely heard this before.
I had to check more than once to make sure I was not watching an old video
He's described this process before on this channel but not with Megan interviewing from what I recall... "Lost Gospel of Judas Iscariot at RSE 2013" is the video title
Bart did a whole deep-dive into this on Alex O'Connor's channel.
The National Geographic show on this (with Bart) was pretty cool.
Bart tells it so great 😂 he is a hoot. Wish I could attend his classes.
One seer prophet mentioned Judas is in heaven. Judas was sorry in his final hour to the point he committed suicide. Judas preached the gospel in sheol & Jesus saved him. Now Judas prays & intercedes for those who has depression & suicidal. Glory to God!
What bs
sweaters? it's getting to feel like fall
The segment is interesting though it is not clear to me how special this specific gospel is. There was a bit of trend to use "bad guys" as well as outsiders (such as Mary Magadalne/a woman) to show how the now orthodox interpretation was wrong. So Cainites.
The use of Judas alone in that sense was not totally shocking especially if you figure Jesus had to die which even some non-Gnostics talk about. BTW, since Paul doesn't even reference Judas, I don't know how much we can totally be sure about regarding his life.
Is this a reupload? I remember watching this podcast a couple of years ago.
So if heaven and hell actually exist on some other plane of existence I think this gospel confirms we already live in hell just without the escape part.
So what were the other three codexes other than the Gospel of Judas that was discovered in that box? Were they also gnostic books?
Finally!
Regardless of its biblical accuracy, I think the story of Judas is interesting. He is the ultimate bad guy of the new testament, but we don't get to hear his side of the story. I'm anxious to hear future episodes about this gospel.
In the book of Acts king David took and prophecied (according to what apostle Peter took and said) king David prophecied about ("Judas Iscariot,") betraying the messiah
been aware of the Manichaean Heresy for years... and there has been presentation of Judas as a sympathetic character due to his necessary role in the story of the Passion. so this was a very interesting wrinkle on early christian faith...
If Jesus' death was predestined as the ultimate sacrifice to atone for humanity's sins, and Judas facilitated this divine plan-playing a critical role in what many Christians today view as the cornerstone of salvation-why is Judas vilified instead of venerated? Should he not be considered a saint of the highest order for enabling the fulfillment of God’s will? After all, didn’t the other disciples fail Jesus in accomplishing his primary mission, showing ignorance and a lack of understanding of his teachings? Furthermore, if you were present during Jesus' time, fully aware of his mission to die as a "human sacrifice" to save humanity, would you strive to save him, risking the derailment of salvation history, or allow his death to proceed, knowing its divine purpose?
Your final question is a fundamental one. And indeed, Judas was a betrayer, and betrayal was a fundamental element in the meaning of Jesus' death. For a believer, this is one of the points where simple, rational, calculus breaks down. And the resolution of that problem is very different, depending on what you believe about salvation and damnation. Not that, I think, resolution is possible.
@@michaelwright2986 Well said lol Error 404: Logic not found. Please reboot your expectations.🤣🤣
hi, I'm going to be "that person" and talk about a technical issue, I hope you don't mind - it happened in the previous video and I thought it would be a one-time-thing but it's even worse today - Megan's microphone is picking up a lot of sibilation, it seems to be set too sensitive, and too much in the high/treble range as opposed to low/bass. I guess it shouldn't be too difficult to improve the settings - it's apparently set for picking up low ambient sounds, even the lowest whisper, so it's picking too much at close range. Even moving the mike further away can help. Mind you, I'm no techie, someone familiar with the art (or even the mike manual) may be a great help. LURV the content and you both, by the way!🥰
8:03 seems to be a problem with her mike
Sibilation eh?
@@nathanaelsmith3553 I had to look it up, thought I had a vague idea of what it meant. Definitions of sibilation. noun. a fricative sound (especially as an expression of disapproval) synonyms: fizzle, hiss, hissing, hushing. noise.
They need to grab some Behringer Vocal channel strips and use hardware de-essers for that
@@510SPINESPLITTA8 oh wow!
Personally I wish Bart would just do indepth podcasts/videos on each of the noncanonical books. The canonical ones and Paul are covered so much it gets repetative.
If I remember correctly, it was in a safe deposit box in a Citibank in Hicksville, NY. I drive past it several times a week.
Thank you.
Pardon my asking, but how many different pairs of glasses does Megan have?
She has a collection of glasses almost as large as Elton John's collection.
A betrayal by one of Jesus' closest associates never made sense to me. What are you supposed to do with silver in paradise? Why jeopardize the great reward by betraying the messiah? I think the tale was reactionary propaganda against the Jews who rejected Jesus.
Dr James Tabor (among many others) continues to insist that the referent of "the god of this world" in 2 Cor 4:4 is Satan, after the complete absence of the topic of Satan in the pericope or the overall discourse is pointed out.
Does Dr Ehrman think Paul had Gnostic-parallel beliefs?
The Laughing Jesus image was a secret Gnostic plant
Do you think they took the idea of a laughing leader from Buddhism? After all Buddhism had been around for approx. 500 years before Jesus.
Hey! Megan and Bart got a 2 for 1 deal on his and hers sweaters! They look like they're actually sitting side by side.
22:50 Act II: the discussion begins on what it says in the Gospel of Judas
The mental image of Jesus laughing scornfully is very unsettling
I assumed he was laughing in a kind manner at what they were doing.
So the new testament over the last centuries has been manipulated to draw a certain audience with "herd mentality" Thnx for a great Interview Megan
For me NDE's are reliable sources for information unlike organized religion. Consciousness does survive physical death, the only question I have is who are these entities in the astral realm.
First of all, I'm going to agree with you 100% and I'm glad there are other people who think like that.
They are a lot of different things in the "astral realm" Some of them are human, some people call some of the things there elementals.
Robert Monroe talks about things like suckerfish that try to attach to your spiritual body.
I would like to mention two things below that I think are very interesting that relate to either NDEs or Astral travel.
“There are some near death experiences that are not pleasant. We don't know how many, because people are more reluctant to talk about the unpleasant ones, but most people who have studied this think that between one and five percent of near death experiences are unpleasant. I have heard of very few that have typical hellish imagery of fire and brimstone and demons. I've only heard that from people who were raised in religions that taught that, some Roman Catholics and Southern Baptists, but there (are) a very small number of those. There's a larger group that have just a sense of being in a black void for eternity, with nothing, no sight, no sound, just your consciousness and nothing else for eternity, which is terrrifying for most americans. Interesting, I've talked to some people who are raised in Hindu cultures and where they experience that as Nirvana. But the vast majority of unpleasant near death experiences are just like the pleasant ones as you described them. But they're experienced in a terrifying way.” -Dr. Bruce Greyson
Source: “Are Near-Death Experiences Real?”
Out of body experiences (so-called “astral travel”)
“Notice that in Figure 6.1 no downward direction is indicated. In analysis of reports from hundreds of subjects we have found only two that discussed a downward-into-hell experience. We believe that these two subjects created this hell-like reality for themselves, probably because they had been so strongly imprinted with the idea of hell from fundamentalist Christian parents. If you find a hell-like domain, we would very much like to know how you did it and its attributes as you perceive them.”
Source: “Astral Travel: Your Guide to the Secrets of Out-Of-The-Body”
@infogunvault6920 Thank you for that information 👍
Fascinating. Thank you
Numbers 11:9 When the dew settled on the camp at night, the manna🍄also came down.
Are you guys using beauty filters on the videos? I noticed that there’s a slight Max Headroom vibe to your faces this time. 😊
Jesus on in Matthew says the opposite of what apostle Peter took and said about, ('the Lord said to my Lord sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet,') Jesus says that what king David took and said doesn't make him a descendant of king David.
And what do people think? Do people think that king David was told or had seen ahead of time what would happen to his own ("descendant,") according to what apostle Peter took and claimed on in Acts 2:31 verse about the resurrection of the messiah?
Nope.
I have and love your book. So Ill skip this one. Spoiler: the story of finding the gospel is more interessting than the gospel itself...
Presumably, not if you're aware of the spirit within yourself & therefore (as with all the gospels) don't take what it says literally.
@@robertdargan1113 There is no spirit within myself and Bart Ehrman agrees with me.
Is this a re-upload? 🤔
I wondered the same thing, but maybe I'm remembering Bart's discussion with Alex O'Connor, which was equally interesting. ruclips.net/video/d3AwvxzYuj0/видео.htmlsi=02rfejVyNOJnRwiB
@@WayWalker3yeah, it's the Alex O'Connor video that I was thinking about, lol. Cheers
Bart & Megan have briefly discussed it in other episodes, too, but this goes into much greater detail.
Oooooh, this is going to be GOOD!!!!!
Skip forward to 23 minute mark if you are interested in the CONTENTS of the "Gospel of Judas".
Wow interesting and thank you for discussing the story 😂
I always knew there had to be more lol. How can a guy see another person do incredible miracles and even give you power to do them and than you just betray him for money
"The god of the old Testament is a bloodthirsty rebel..." Well in that respect i agree with gnosticism.
Judas is a Saint in the Ethiopian Orthodox Church precisely because Jesus entrusted him with the most difficult and important job of facilitating His martyrdom. As for the language Jesus would've spoken in Court, it would've been in Koine Greek.
All elite Romans, Jews and other Mediterranean peoples could read, write and speak Greek. The "Torah" was the Septuagint at this time and was also in Greek, "therefore" Jesus would've been debating the Rabbis at the Temple as a child in Greek(like all good Neo-Platonist at the time would have done, Jew and Gentile alike). Jesus is the also son who is called "out of (Alexandria) Egypt", where he was studying the Mysteries in Greek, and 100% of the New Testament is recorded in Greek, along with His entirely Greek title of "Christ", etc..., etc.....
Indeed, there is not a single original, or contemporary letter of the life, times and teaching of "Jesus Christ" that is NOT in Greek. Even Josephus was writing "The History of the Jews"......in Greek. Paul, a "rabbi", wrote his "Letters to the Hebrews".....in Greek. No one of note wrote in Aramaic at this time. So called "Biblical Hebrew" was a long dead language by this time that no "Jew" could even speak as a Mother Tongue and we have no "original" texts in anything other than Greek either. Not Latin. Not Aramaic. Not Hebrew. Not Demotic. Literally nothing.
While Jesus likely spoke the Edessan dialect of Syrio-Aramaic as a form of Lingua Franca, none of his official "Acts", or attestations, are recorded in anything except Greek. No one would've taken him "seriously" if he couldn't speak Greek either, in much the same way we don't take people "seriously" if they can't use proper Greek/Latin terminology when discussing Science today.
Greek has always meant "elite", "royal", "educated", "sophisticated", "philosophical", "spiritual", etc....from long before the time of Jesus and for many more centuries thereafter.
I really enjoy these intellectual discussions. They are important in themselves, but we should bear in mind that both Testaments, New and Old, are more fantasy than history, regardless of the historical origins of various scriptures.
Glad to see everyone got the gray sweater memo. 😏
Just listened to the book, and it's a great listen, even to me, an agnostic.
This first question reveals the Gnostic worldview. Ludwig Noack demostrates from Last Supper in GJohn that the beloved disciple can ONLY be Judas Iscariot. This because GJohn written in Sethian Gnostic milieu which knew Gospel of Thomas.
Hi i just wanted to mention that the intermission segment music is a bit loud and strong since i usually listen to the podcast to relax
Once again, I think Megan should have her own podcast already
She has digital hammarabi where she and her husband do all sorts of cool ancient languages stuff. Sumerian 😊😊😊😊😊
Thank you!
I appreciate the social chemistry between Bart and Megan.
Nice couple Megan and bart I like them
I always wish that the Library of Alexandria would have been spared during the invasion???? Could you imagine humanity with that wealth of knowledge?????
_Hey Jude, don't make it bad._
_Take a sad song and make it better._
_Remember to let her into your heart,_
_Then you can start to make it better._
_Hey Jude, don't be afraid._
_You were made to go out and get her._
_The minute you let her under your skin,__
_Then you begin to make it better._
Naaaa naa naa na na na naaaa na na na naaaa Hey Jude
And anytime you feel the pain, hey jude, refrain, don't carry the world on your shoulder.
For well you know that it's a fool who plays it cool by making his world a little colder
Has this not been a topic already? I'm sure I've heard Dr. Bart talking about this before. Maybe it was on somebody else's channel...
It was with Alex from Cosmic Skeptic, he talked about it with him
One of my fave episodes! Thank you! The mystery of Judas is one of the biggest in history, and it’s a shame the canonical Christian texts don’t dig into his story- probably the shame factor, because he’s seen as betraying Jesus, but maybe he really didn’t? Those questions pondered, the Gnostic gospels are so bizarre that it’s to imagine anyone believing in these elaborate constructs of universe- regardless of Jesus, or Judas for that matter.
The Gospel of Thomas- no canonical, but not noticeably Gnostic is genius that never gets enough spotlight, how about an episode on it? Feels like the yellow brick road of faith, finding faith-that religion isn’t relevant in this journey
I can see Jesus laughing. Too bad he didn't see The Life of Brian, "Romanes eunt domum."
I read that book! And I don't say that very often.
Despite knowing that listening to Jesus would lead to horror Judas still listened to the lord. What a stud
Not just jesus, Mary as well his right hand woman
I recommend to get acquainted with the scroll of Moses aka Shapira,no code law and there are blessings,blessed one who loves his neighbor,check mate for Christians and Jews
What a horrifying story :(
This is like an Indiana jones story