I had Hi-Link SMPS and someone mounted it on a double-layer perforated prototyping board... It obviously exploded. The power supply was a-ok, but the circuit board tracks vanished with a bang. It was used in a small clock, so it was me who was fixing all these little boards. I just removed all the tracks near the mains connection and made some isolation slots so under no condition mains would connect straight to the safe 5V output. They still are serving that wall clock well after 5 years! :)
So it appears then, Penurious Sierra, that the HiLink module is pretty much OK, whether or not it strictly adheres to the standards prevalent in the western world. Sounds like you did a good job if things are still running well after 5 years! Thanks for posting.
Many moons ago (about 40 years), I was working on the electrics of an grand old UK house. So old in fact that the mains supply TO the house had been condemned. In the course of our work, rewiring and modernising fittings, we would often find that the was a potential difference between Earth and Neutral, even with the local switch/fuse box isolated from the live supply. This was due to the fact that our earth was connected to the local earthed electrode but the neutral (and live) came from a temporary supply running from a farm about 100 metres down the road. The resistance of the soil between the house and the farm was responsible for a voltage difference of about 10VDC. It was enough to cause a harmless, if alarming, spark whenever a neutral wire touched an earth wire.
Sounds dodgy, Michael. I wonder how much current would flow from the line input to that earth. Enough to blow a fuse or trip the circuit breaker? Glad you survived though!
With current specs and equipment I doubt that such an arrangement would even work. Back in the day, when the only protection was a fuse on the live line, there would have been nothing to stop the current between the neutral and the local earth line. I don't recall any switch on the neutral line (from the farm). The standard supply was in place before the house was used as for its intended purpose.
Hi Ralph, yes the HLK-PM01 is only little more money. I would use a tiny mains supply but the box if metal or any switch is metal it must be mains earthed. The best way is to have "Double Insulated" with no exposed metal parts or wires. Send the clone and orignal to "Big Clives channel". He will do a high voltage isolation test and take the transformer apart as ther are many safey rules just in a wound transformer. For 99.9% a wallblock is best route. I don't truss the China and buy from Farnell and the like so the marking are real. One point about mains supply it is normall 3 phase from the local stepdown transformer (10,000V) with neutral and earth. Most newish houses have plastic service pipies so Earth is supplied to the house along with 1 phase or bigger properties may have all phases. The phases are shared to the houses to try and balance the load. So never run an extension cord to a neighboughs house as it might be not the same phase! This means the return current along the neutral is not allways balanced and it might be a few volts well less than 10. The cables do come in the pavement here and have broken sevaral times, once was the neutral, so depending on the load balance some houses had low volts and others high. The result was several items failed and were repaired or replace by the electricity company. But after about a year several more things failed as had been stressed. I now have my own earth rod in addition but is a poor 40 ish ohm while the supplied earth is 0.46 ohm. USA has 120V and 240V normally just for the water heater. Graham
@ Graham Wise: All houses have 240 In Canada (as far as I know) Not only is the Hot Water 240 but also the dryer, baseboard heaters. Oh, And my hot tub.
I can already tell you the HLK-PM01 survived the high-voltage isolation tests but the TSP-05 failed it. No doubt Clive would have a field day with it. Interesting about the 3-phase transformer, probably more efficient to do it that way. And you've corroborated my Earth resistance fears from your own grounding rod. INteresting. Thanks for the post.
Yes would use them. I just purchased 2 of the un-potted versions, but the potted version makes more sense as far as keeping fingers/parts away from the mains. Great Video. Accidents happen when you take things for granted and this reminds me why i also need to ground the metal case also.
Would be interesting to see some isolation tests, see if this power supply has over current and over temperature protection and a fuse that would perhaps reduce risk of fire.
I can't say, David, whether this one has overload/over temperature protection but the one I looked at in video #135 did have, and it was the sort of device that would be packaged up like this one. If I ever test it out I'll let everyone know.
You need to put mains filtering on this to use this for sensitive electronics like MCUs or SBCs. Just chuck in a y capacitor, fuse and a common mode choke on the mains input and 10uF capacitor on the output. I wouldn't use this on any commercial design though.
Great suggestions, HMPirates, but as you say it's all a bit dodgy anyway, never mind whether for a commercial design! Thanks for posting, nice to hear from you.
Here in the USA 🇺🇸 distribution voltages are typically 4 kv or 12 kv. Those are transformed in a substation down from 33, 67, 150 kv, etc. Newer distribution lines are underground whereas a lot of older ones are overhead on poles. (Running them underground is a lot more expensive.) The residential transformer usually has a center tapped 240 V secondary. The center tap is the neutral with two hot legs, so you can get either 120 or 240 V, depending on whether you connect an appliance to hot and neutral or between the two hot legs. Usually only the largest appliances use 240. Then there are commercial and industrial services with 120/208 or 277/480 volt three phase...
It's interesting (to me, anyway) that the 110/115/120 voltage in the States seems to be insufficient for some items and that you then adopt the UK/Europe 240v when you need the extra grunt. I said "interesting", but I meant ironic, considering that Edison was the pioneer of electric power in his lighting. And you chose 60Hz instead of 50Hz. Or we chose 50Hz. Strange how we can't ever get a "standard" across the world that works! Thanks for posting Dave, nice to hear from you.
I will use them for relay driver board, which is anyway live and inside a plastic enclosure. For IOT final product, these are great. But for development and testing, I will use isolated lab power supply.
Well, it seems that these modules are definitely on everyone's mind these days! Just watched your video, glad that it all seemed OK, but of course, you were testing the HiLink, not the TSP version (which fails the high voltage insulation test, allegedly). I like the way you install it on a board with screw terminals, which I sort of mentioned I wished were part of the module's design. Thanks for posting, pcbreflux.
Thanks, for watching. I bought the HiLink only for the cheap price, but didn't know if its different from the TSP. Someone mentioned that all modules without serial number and hologram-sticker are fake but luckily mine seams ok.
We never know whether they are fake or not (unless the performance is obviously sub-standard). But yours seemed OK, so perhaps they are real. My one must be fake too as it has no hologram on it. Sigh.
Yes, I used the hi link ones in different output voltages a few times now and had no problems at all until now. I would use them again. Most stuff I place such things in are projects that won’t run for days on their own, so most of the time I will be in the room when they are powered. And of course I won’t touch even the low voltage output just in case.....
The biggest worry about this being unsafe is the transformer. You can not see the separation between the hi voltage winding and the low voltage winding without unwinding it. But that destroys it so it’s useless after you verify. So all you can do is judge their manufacturing techniques and then decide if that is enough to trust one you have not unwound. A ce Certified one will usually have triple insulation between the hi voltage and low voltage windings.
I took a chance and used this in my workshop heater repair (I totally replaced the "motherboard", see video #133, ruclips.net/video/TJHJeLOK6nk/видео.html ) and it's been fine but I don't leave the heater running when I'm not present. That said, if the PSU failed it would fry the Nano and other components, but I'm not sure it would do much more damage than that. Well, yes, it could burn down my workshop, I suppose.
I wouldn't be afraid of that circuit board design at all. Acceptable creepage given the overall size. I'm more concerned with the suppression cap (If it fails, it MUST fail open circuit), the quality of the transformer and the opto-isolator
The grounding of the neutral happens only at 1 point. From there on neutral is the current return path. The earth/ground is there for protection only not for current return. The neutral is grounded/earthed to prevent a parasitic voltage build up of a fully floating system.
Agreed, randycarter2001, the neutral wire is the return path and the earth wire is only for protection (unless the neutral fails in some way, I suppose). But the neutral wire can be earthed at intermediate points along the route from the electricity supplier's transformer to your local distribution board (for you and your neighbours). How often this is done is only known to the supplier. Thanks for posting, goo to hear from you.
Which is why I have many, many outlets in my workshop! Quick count: about 20 outlets connected permanently to mains, and double that connected to a switched system that I turn off when exiting the workshop in the evening.
@@RalphBacon having a switched system is a really good idea actually then you don’t have to worry if it’s going to explode and catch fire while you sleep
And a big warning sticker that mains was inside the case! "No user serviceable parts inside" and "Disconnect from mains before removing case", are the usual disclaimers, not that it ever stopped me from taking the case off things. I'm lucky to be here, quite frankly.
My main concern would be using it in a module that goes inside the wall for some home automation project and having it fail, overheat and then burning down the house. If i used one i'd probably add an external 90deg C thermal fuse in series with the mains input to the module. Then thermal epoxy the fuse to the case of the module on top. Any over temp failure would kill it's power before it got super hot. It might make it a little less safe from a shock hazard perspective, due to exposed mains thermal fuse on it, However that could be fixed with some heatshrink or a proper enclosure.
Or put it inside a metal box, that would be safe(r) too. I've used one in my workshop heater project and it's still going but I won't use that fan heater unattended.
In the datasheet of HLK-PM01 they suggest both a thermal fuse sticked to the case and a overcurrent fuse. When you use a component you must always look at the datasheet, failing to do so break manifacturer specs and intended safety of usage.
Lucky it wasn't your tongue, webslinger2011, as otherwise I suspect we would not be having this conversation! Glad you survived your ordeal, thanks for posting.
I probably wouldn't install that, specially in equipment that could be unsupervised However, looking at the design, i don't see a problem, that slot wouldn't make that much difference, whichever way you do it you still need a rectifier bridging The important thing is the isolation of the transformer, a class Y capacitor between inpyt and output, and a good opto isolator for feedback (if used) There's plenty of space under the transformer, and it looks like the secondary is an insulated wire (not just enamel wire)
You're saying all positive things about it, Sparky, but still wouldn't fit it into equipment (such as the gap between walls in my wooden workshop? Me neither! If it were enclosed in a metal box it might be safer (I'm thinking of fire risk here). I might still use it in one of my projects... we shall have to wait and see. Thanks for your evaluation, always good to get other Arduinite opinions.
Just to clarify, just observing from this side of the screen, the isolation 'looks' fine, my concern would be from overheating and consequent fire. I would never put electronics in a wall, not even those mains sockets with built in usb (electrician for 30 years) btw, i'm not an arduino guy, still prefer the old analogue or digital IC's, i even prefer linear power supplies
And there's nothing wrong with linear power supplies (ideally with a toroidal transformer), they're just a bit bulky compared to switched mode supplies. But no high-frequency noise, either! Regarding the overheating aspect of the 5v PSU, maybe I should connect one up, put a reasonable load on it and just let it run whilst monitoring it for an increase in temperature. Hmm, that could be interesting.
Forgot to mention, i don't see a problem with mounting on a pcb or stripboard, as long as there's space between input connections (same as spacing of pins), and remove tracks between primary and secondary, the current should be fine on standard stripboard, but you could poke your wires through next to the pins and bend them over to connect directly, would be more stable than the method you proposed
the safety gap between mains potential and output potential is that massive expanse of green in the middle of the board. there's no rule to separate mains input from other mains circuitry, only to separate mains circuitry from human facing conductors.
You're doubtless correct, although there does seem to be some kind of "rule of thumb" at the very least, according to John Ward, that 3mm between mains conductors and "other parts of the circuit" is desirable, perhaps with an air gap (eg a cut slot on the board). You can "get away with" 2mm and a gap, anything less than that is asking for trouble (the smallest amount of dust and it will arc. But yes, this board is trying hard to be safe-ish, and as it's insulated against us poking screwdrivers into it I think it might be OK! Maybe!
Difference between screw and bolt is that the thread runs all the way to the head in a screw and only along part of the shank in the bolt. Woodworkers diverge willy nilly from Engineering nomenclature.
I've posted what Wikipedia says, Bernd, on another post and now wish I had never mentioned anything! Bolts, screws, set screws - we all know what we mean (most of the time). I'm leaving it there! Thanks for posting.
I'm guessing someone has told you what UL means. As far as earth ground and neutral it's important to remember that earth ground isn't the same as neutral, it won't transmit nearly as much current which means it won't trip the breaker and you can get a major melt down.
Hmm, no longer true. The new wiring code (for the UK, at least) specifies that the CPC (Earth / Ground) has now to be the same gauge as the other wires. Oh, and it's now fully insulated, no more bare copper cores in a "twin and earth". About time. Anyway, as long as the CPC is capable of carrying 30mA it will trip the breaker. That's the whole point, to save you before your heart gives out.
@@RalphBacon The are bonded in the main panel here (neutral & ground) and we use same gauge as well and usually insulated. I've just come across some hillbilly wiring where they were trying to use a hot lead and an earth-only ground for circuits with 120vAC 20-40 amp. A lot of wire melted before a breaker tripped.
Sorry to say..The "China Export" mark doesn't actually exist. Nor does the difference between the CE marks matter. Both are as valid as each other, because CE is a self awarded mark. So no point looking at the mark, and deciding it is a good one or a bad one. No official inspection is made. It just means the manufacturer has said it conforms. www.ce-marking.org/what-is-ce-marking.html The China export thing comes from RUclips channels where Chinese goods are torn apart for entertainment value. Not from any official certification board. The initials are just a handy pair to make the joke with.
I'm assuming, John, that if a manufacturer does conform to CE rules, then they will also place the official CE logo on their product. Those manufacturers that don't conform (but would like to pretend they do, or dupe buyers into thinking they do) might also put a CE logo on their product but rather than being that blatant about it, use the "non- conformant" CE letters (too close together for example). Maybe? I don't know where I picked up the "China Export" from but it wasn't RUclips. But it's a good thing to be aware of, don't you think?
Ralph S Bacon the difference between the "real" ce mark and the "fake" are irrelevant, the reason is simple, because it is self awarded their is no vetting and if a "fake" one was placed on just for the purpose of coning consumers it would still run afol with consumer protection laws and tradmark violations, creating a very similar fake does nothing as far as law is concerned, the reason the logos are constantly messed up is more because on the inability for Chinese manufacturers to use the correct logo. As I've seen the fake version of the logo even on "good" manufacturers such as Samsung and lg from time to time. The long and short is if they are going to flaunt the law will do it the whole way, or at least as best as they know how since they clearly can get the logo right.
So the CE mark, may, or may not, mean anything! And if large suppliers like Samsung can get the logo wrong (indicating it might be a non-CE compliant product) then rogue traders can presumably put the "correct" logo on their equipment too! I give up, we can't be sure of anything anymore. Thanks for posting, Jay, good to know all this.
No it is not a self awarded mark, it is a mark that shows that the manufacturer has complied with EU legislation on the product. I spoke to some people and also via email with the CE organisation, it is not a voluntary thing as you will find if you read up about it on the official website.
@@jaykoerner "China Export", its just youtubers fantasies. Besides, CE is not self awarded at all, yes the company has to fill and sign a form but it has to be backed by actual certificate from notified body and of course a (pass) test report from the certification lab. You wont clear any customs (at least in France) without these. As a design office we do handle CE certification process on behalf of our clients for the devices we design and produce.
If you never connected nuetral to earth doesn’t that mean you would not be shocked by touching the live or the neutral, you would need to touch both wouldn’t you?
If the Power Company did not connect one end of their 110V/240V transformer to ground (that we walk on) then you would not get a shock if you just touched just one of the mains cables, true. Same as if you used an isolation transformer on your workbench (as I do). But their transformers, from the power station to your house are grounded on the Neutral line at multiple locations (not least right at your house, possibly) so the chances are you will always get a shock if you touch the Line wire (but not the Neutral, probably, don't try it). There are good reasons why the power companies do it this way, not least so we can detect overloads and prevent leakage current.
Yes, cheetahkid, the HiLink version seems to be capable of passing the flash test, the TSP-05 less so. And thanks for the vote of confidence, several others also use the HiLinks although the general consensus (so far) is that Arduinites tend to steer clear of mains anything!
In engineering we called them set screws! Just to be pedantic! Does it really matter? Only if you're looking for them in the stores catalogue! Please keep it loose and spontaneous as it's entertainment after all! I do agree though that mains is a different game! Thirty five years in the electricity industry as an electrical fitter taught me that!
Stephen Cook Well I worked for 38 years in a Scottish power station as an electrical fitter and trust me they were called set screws! Even in the stores book!
Wikipedia says "There is no universally accepted distinction between a screw and a bolt. A simple distinction that is often true, although not always, is that a bolt passes through a substrate and takes a nut on the other side, whereas a screw takes no nut because it threads directly into the substrate (a screw screws into something, a bolt bolts several things together)." However... However, it also says "A set screw is a type of screw generally used to secure an object within or against another object, normally not using a nut (see bolts compared with screws). The most common examples are securing a pulley or gear to a shaft. Set screws are usually headless (also called blind), meaning that the screw is fully threaded and has no head projecting past the major diameter of the screw thread... A blind set screw [is] known in the UK as a grub screw..." See en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Set_screw and en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screw#Differentiation_between_bolt_and_screw I wish I hadn't said anything about bolts and screws now .
Ralph S Bacon yes I'm sorry I mentioned it as well! I only did it for fun and didn't mean to be contentious! Like I said originally it doesn't really matter as long as you know what you mean! Humble apologies for setting the cat among the pigeons!
PCB is easy to judge visually. Transformers are a paint to take apart to make an educated guess. Isolation test meters with real high voltage are what makes testing fast. You may not want to use tested parts though, if it has been fried for a minute and passed, it may fail the next second. Isolation testers are not really that expensive on ebay nowadays. A reasonable 4kV ac tester still costs perhaps $200 or a bit more. I think even the cheap 1kV testers are better than nothing though, if it fails on that is is not safe. If it doesn't it can be (but is not surely).
Well, hoggif, I took a gamble and used this 5v PSU in my video #133 when I fixed (replaced) my workshop heater control panel. It's worked fine for some months during the cold weather this year (2019) and I hope I don't burn down my workshop one day because I took a gamble with it!
LINE is voltage source NEUTRAL is normal path back for voltage source GROUND (100% copper or aluminum) backup path inside a building for voltage source EARTH GROUND (not 100% wire but actually uses dirt) backup path for voltage source outside of buildings. LINE to NEUTRAL normal use LINE to GROUND has no resistance so will activate a breaker. LINE to EARTH GROUND enough resistance that it will not pop a breaker but is an easier path sometimes than a human body and will trip an rcd or gfi safety mechanism
A lot of people think LINE to EARTH GROUND is enough to trip a fuse or breaker. It is not. A breaker will only pop with close to zero resistance which means 100% copper or aluminum. No dirt or human resistance.
Hmm. Given that the Neutral is connected to Earth either within the building (so connected to what the electricity supplier gives you as the Earth terminal) or further back up the line, I'm wondering how this affects things. Certainly in the olden days of telegraph (one wire) they had to pour water around the "Earth" spike to make it more conductive through the actual ground during dry spells before they switched to the more reliable two-wire system).
I have a few of these little PSU's. Didn't have any problems with it feeding my wemos. In fact I trust it more than some phone chargers. Having said that... I only use them for wireless projects that are not galvanically connected to the rest of my infrastructure. For example for arduinos I use a decent wallwaers with a transformer... Not a phonecharger that only separates me from the grid via an unisolated capacitor. Also..... CE doesn't mean that much. Can go to various validation bureaus that issue the CE certificate....... Based on what the manufacturer states
You're the second poster, Ed, that asserts that the CE logo is just not that useful. It might be *required* to sell or move your products in Europe, but if it's all self-regulated then I guess its worth is less than I had hoped. Interesting, thanks for posting.
Ralph S Bacon indeed. Main reason I don't shy away from this product is because it has a transformer inside..... Unlike many phonechargers. Thanks for the video
Hi Ralph, I would probably use one of these. But I would first test it to make sure I'd didn't get hot with my project. But I really tend to use small phone chargers (or the internals of them) for projects. But only Main Brands original ones (Nokia, Blackberry, Apple and Samsung), not cheap clones. Projects tend to become more miniaturized and for those we all seek small Power sources. In most cases that I can get by with a few volts on a small cable, I prefer to do that with a phone charger.
Mr. Bacon No way would I use one unless it is UL certified - I have used many that were without a problem. Now after many years. BUT I have had wall warts fail after only 5 years. But I still like them due to the failure was contained within the housing. Look for the UL label and at least it is been tested for dangerous construction and parts. UL is here in the US. I do not know about the CE label and cannot detect fake lettering. UL is almost as bad but check the company you are buying it from., I stick to my well known suppliers - that is the key for me.
And you are wise to take that stance, Dave. In Europe, the equivalent to the UL is the CE (conformite European - it's French) which ensures standards are met. Unfortunately, some unscrupulous Far Eastern companies have decided CE stands for China Export instead and stamp all their goods accordingly. You never know what you're buying these days.
@@SodAlmighty Hahaha, again, another comment that I was about to make myself, but someone already made it :) Yep, totally thought I needed one of those until I saw Ralph using it :)
29:48 Is this Earth cable wired in a way that would allow moisture, rain, etc, to run down and cause issues, corrosion resulting in a poor connection ?
I see your concern, but given that this is an outdoor ground stake I'd be surprised if it made much difference with or without a drip loop. Better would be to thoroughly cover the connection with a decent grease or petroleum jelly (just like your car battery) to protect it. Guess what? That's what I have done to my own ground stake for my workshop which reminds me I ought to check it before Winter sets in this year ⛄
I agree that vigortronix is expensive - For £7 you can buy an OFFICIAL raspberry pi PSU (with multiple country adaptors) and it provides 2.5A - the vigortronix is only 1A... On getting shocked, i've been shocked twice by mains voltage when I was a kid - I survived unscathed but I still avoid it when possible.
And I'm very glad that you survived that 'shocking' experience, Darren. That's a good price for an official PI PSU, and a great idea too, many agree. Thanks for the vote!
The outer case is made of insulting polymer material, so it is meaning less to have the mains earth conductor connected to the case for safety reason. On he other hand, I have seen a number of European products as well as korean electric home appliances with metal cases but only it's mains cable only have L and N conductors, NO earth path at all!
Tell me about it, steve b. There are some shocking practices going on out there with potentially very serious repercussions for the end-user. I hear what you say about the case being plastic here, but I'd still like whatever this component is cased in to be earthed unless that is plastic too. There's a big problem with the simple, single-channel Sonoff IMHO; only an L and N connection that encourages users, unaware of the danger, to leave any E wire cut off. Thankfully, the 4-channel version is much better. Thanks for posting, nice to hear from you.
I am not surprised that Javier Palla Lorden survived his experience with 230V, many others have. Dense tissue offers a greater resistance to current than less dense tissue does. So, if you are as dense as he is, you to may survive, provided the current does not traverse the heart. The important issue, in the context of Ralph's video, is that as a maker, a lack of caution in isolating users from mains voltage (be it 110v, 240v or 415v) may result in somebody else (perhaps one of your children) receiving an electric shock. Now many people survive electric shocks but the statistics (or should I say corpses) indicate that electricity can and does kill. So, do you have the right to gamble that all the users of the end product of your project are as dense as Javier Palla Lorden?
I concur that having a cavalier attitude towards mains-powered projects is a recipe for disaster. Done right, it can be very safe. Done wrong, or poorly, it's like a little ticking time bomb...
Yes, that is pretty much what I have done, Joseph. I used it in my Workshop Heater project (video #133) but I only have that running when I am actually here. You can see it here: ruclips.net/video/TJHJeLOK6nk/видео.html
Ralph, having made this video you can get off the Naughty Step. Arduinites are now informed and encouraged to learn this stuff. I agree there are few advantages in using these over a wall wart. Someone may get hurt. Just not worth it. You go off piste at 28:46 when you draw a connection from the transformer core laminations to earth. This is never done. It would have been better had you connected the primary and secondary neutrals to earth. This would demonstrate changing a ‘floating’ (= isolating) transformer into one that is ‘ground referenced’. To save you the bother, here is a John Ward video for those that wish to know, including the centre connection of earth. ruclips.net/video/fRhofcMyAyk/видео.html I use the HILINK converter shown in the video. I have mounted mine in several ceiling roses where it converts the 240V AC to power a 3W led. Good for cupboards and small rooms. This is now redundant as Screwfix now offer LED lights, cheaper than rolling your own.
I'm so pleased to get off the naughty step! And I must say (it probably came across in the video) that there are several disadvantages in using this device when a wall wart does it all more safely as long as you get a decent quality one. Regarding the earthing of a transformer's core, I mentioned it because I once had a (decent) PSU that had this, although whether it was to protect the operator in the event of a meltdown or to divert any high voltages induced into the core is unclear. Thanks for the information on your usage of the HiLink version, and for posting.
Yes, it's not for the faint-hearted, Mina. Although this PSU _is_ isolated from the mains. But still a bit close to the live electrics! I've used one now in my Workshop Heater Repair and so far it's OK. So far. We shall see if it survives this year's cold weather!
If I really need one like this, I'd get one UL listed from digikey or mouser (I'm in Canada). Most likely "meanwell" brand. Not too expensive and good for any use. I mention "meanwell" because it's "far east". "far east" peoples can do any quality you want. If you willing to pay $1, power supply will be with quality of $1. If device will be in hands and/or have metal case, I'll get "medical" certified version of it. Allegedly more reliable and safe. Otherwise I'll stick to "traditional" power supplies.
Yes, just because it originates from the Far East does not mean poor quality. Apple builds some of its stuff over there under stringent quality conditions. Thanks for your vote for "traditional" power supplies, many agree with you.
This does have a transformer inside, Stephen, although not a true isolating transformer in the traditional sense. But the fact of the matter is that I used one on a project which you can watch in amazement, video #133, working great so far (not during the summer).
Good to know, Simon, and thankfully not something I do much of. But 1.5mm seems very small, and I don't doubt you, but I would like to see it bigger! Thanks for clarifying, and for posting.
Hey Ralph, with the solar panel strips you didn’t mention what material they were made out of? As a side note, everything oxidises in the presence of oxygen it’s just some oxides are beneficial by creating a layer that prevents further oxidisation (Zinc for example) and some even oxidise without oxygen. This is a simplistic interpretation of a more complex reaction that occurs at the atomic level and is heavily dependent on the electro-potential of the base elements involved.
They are made, MrVajutza, as far as I know from copper or aluminium (or even silver, but not the ones I had!), but as you saw (I hope) they are fully tinned, whether that's to make them easier to solder to just to protect them from the weather I cannot say. Good question, thanks for posting.
Ralph S Bacon they are not weatherproof. On solar panels they are encapsulated in epoxy. You can't use these as resistive sensors for moisture. You need capacitive sensors if you don't want corrosion.
Yes Ralph, I would use one of these. It is a low current device (max 600mA), the separation is decent and it's encapsulated. No different than using a PCB mount relay really. I would not connect incoming AC wire directly to the PSU pins but would rather run short tracks (and put kapton tape over the tracks) from the pins to a terminal block. Thanks for taking one apart....saves me doing so! As for the magnetizer/demagnetizer see ruclips.net/video/8nKfbZYjN8I/видео.html
Good link to that magnetizer, standishgeezer, and the video that followed it, I knew that there was a knack for getting it to work (demagnetise) each time. Thanks for your vote on the PSU and the way you'd do it. All very interesting, thanks for posting.
Good, I want to make a good power supply the same size as the one that showed in the video. I was thinking of using the abs10 rectifier bridge, and the integrated lm364dn. but still missing more components to make the font. thank you for help on how to do
That's an interesting suggestion, although isn't graphite very fragile? Perhaps we could use graphite welding rods if that is the same stuff. Thanks for the suggestion!
Well, far be it for me to be cynical, Adrian, but the Chinese factories have decided that CE actually stands for "China Export" and it's pure coincidence that we use CE to mean "Conformité Européenne". Basically, unless you're buying an iPhone, the CE is not likely to mean very much. That doesn't mean it _can't_ mean anything. There must surely be some Chinese factories selling to European companies that will demand real CE markings (and the certificate to prove it). But the price will probably reflect that. Buy mains / household voltage products from China with both eyes open.
Hi Ralph, I for one would not use such a device (certified or not) as I am a firm believer in having AC and DC circuits totally separated electrically - pluging this device into (say) a breadboard, PCB or perf board etc., to my thinking during development of a particular project etc., is simply asking for trouble - we all only have one life and adversely using AC mains is a one way ticket to the Pearly Gates or to shovelling coal in much hotter places! I have attached a link to a very good article which shows and describes earthing, grounding etc and includes their respective symbols together with a number of additional "earthing/grounding" symbols not usually seen. www.allaboutcircuits.com/technical-articles/an-introduction-to-ground/ In Australia we (and I also believe in UK) use the term Earthing when referring to mains "earthing". In USA they appear to use "grounding" when referring to the same thing albeit at different AC voltages. Either way I have seen many youtube examples (and also professional articles who should have known better) where earthing/grounding and chassis ground symbols are mixed up - which could be problematic for the uninitiated. Anyway that's my twopennith input! Cheers.
It's a veritable minefield, Ian. But electrically speaking, the term "ground" refers to the current circuit's ground reference, where the current returns to, which could still have a positive potential relative to Earth or other parts of the circuit. So "ground" does not mean Earth (the stuff we walk on), in an electrical sense, in all cases at all. But Earth definitely refers to the stuff we walk on, and "earthing" means just that, connecting your chassis (or whatever) to a ground spike into the ground, usually all done via your electricity supplier's wires. And confusingly, Neutral is always connected to Earth at some point along that wire. I did say minefield!
Just ask them for a CE certification for the item, if they are, they will have one. If they send you anything else then you can bet your rear that they're not...
And even worse, Mark, is that the CE certification doesn't appear to be worth very much, allegedly, according to the comments by others on this video. Who knew?
I recently tried to buy and I am some 3 months on still waiting for the shipping agents to pass the NEMA 17 Brackets The shipping agents was insisting on the CE certification and wiring diagrams and technical spec of the NEMA 17 Brackets. *face palm* tried to explain that CE didn't pertain to the part I ordered, shipping agent disagreed and despite contacting the CE Association directly and they even emailed me and agreed that the "Bracket" did not have to conform to any certification as it didn't pose any risk, like electrical parts can... Someone in the shipping agents doesn't seem to get it and the seller doesn't seem to understand that their choice of wording is pretty poor and the whole reason that these brackets have been returned by the agents twice now. Told the seller to simply change the wording to get around that because the agent is seeing NEMA and demanding paperwork. So some shipping agents do seem to be conforming. My concern will be all the toxic waste we will be getting again when we deal direct again with China and BREXITERS have had their day... The days when your pencil could give you skin cancer will soon be back on the cards...
@@RalphBacon Ya that was the idea. But the way you described it made me think that the arduino would been floating alone. In general ofc it would be best to ground the case all the way to same ground. Thou good video anyway important issue. Building myself printerspooler with ethernet based on orange pi and going embedded inside the laser printer which doesnt have ethernet but usb. Found better alternative to myself to fit the needs with: www.elfadistrelec.fi/fi/dc-power-supply-5w-5v-1a-recom-rac05-05sk/p/30113026?q=*&pos=3&origPos=565&origPageSize=10&track=true The laser printer has its own switch mode powersupply that has 80v and 5v rails that i measured. But not sure how tight the components are measured to be. Also its pretty old psu in general. Thou it would be ofc safer to use lower voltages than 230v mains. Would be more convenient/easier approac for me to take power from main switch of the printer with additional small (230v 0.2A) fuse to this small encapsulated psu in parallel than try to poke around somewhere 10w out from 5v rail.
Good video.. 😉 I just missed a few examples for What would Be safe as an example? I need 5volt (Yes 5v Not 3.3v) for a ESP8266 relay module (connected to the 220v light) Would a led power supply 5v from AliExpress work? An outlet adapter would mean I would have to put an extra wall socket on The wall next to the lights? Anybody have any ideas? Or would HLK-PM01 in a plastic junction box Be safe enough?! Any help would Be much appreciated.. Thanks
You could use a 5v mini power supply like the ones I showed in video #105. Not the blue "unsafe" version, but the black HLK-PM01 which most viewers think is OK. It can only deliver 600mA and I wouldn't push it past 500mA but it may be just what you need to drive an EPS8266 Relay Module @ 5v.
Simple answer Ralph, NO I would not use one of those. "I didn't get where I am today by messing about with the mains." A little spot of paraphrasing CJ from The Fall and Rise of Reginald Perrin. I have a good, solid, old-fashioned linear bench power supply with a monster of a transformer in it, a pair of gorgeous moving coil panel meters (cos digital really ain't all that) and it is properly fused and earthed. I can trust that because I know it is safe. It is worth noting the mains voltage in the UK can vary from 216 to 253 V RMS and the peak is higher (multiply that RMS value by the square root of 2 to get the peak and then remember the peak voltage is reached twice in each cycle - and there are 50 of those every second!!) For these reasons I never get involved with the mains, ever. www.bbc.co.uk/education/guides/zqq77ty/revision/4
Ha Ha! Yes, I got that reference even before I'd read to the end of the sentence, Nick. I can see that you are a man of little faith in things at mains voltage and certainly not if made in the Far East! I had a PSU just like yours many years ago, but unfortunately, the transformer decided to call it a day and that was that. It was cost prohibitive to replace it and digital, switch mode is now where I am. So far so good, but that was a really good power supply...
To be honest Ralph I am really not a fan of Switched Mode although I do also own another bench PSU that is switched but I very rarely use it. My father was a sparky by trade so I learned to respect the mains at a very young age.
The Real Thing being the more expensive Vigortronix version, I'm assuming? Rather than a decent plug-in PSU (eg for a Pi) that others are suggesting is safer? Thanks for voting, Bob.
@@RalphBacon Hi Ralph yes the Vigortrix as this item would be tucked away in a unit or cupboard to supply an item with low power so if it combusted then you have a major problem so pay a bit more it is worth it
I'm still curious about that.. And stil did'nt found any English Speaking RUclipsr that actually tested them Live.. But at least according to a Russian RUclips Video here ruclips.net/video/ijVK07TjL3g/видео.html i now know that the case can't burn and i know the Temperatur of the Module.. So what i'm going todo is, to just put a 80C Thermal Fuse right next to it, connected to the main input.. And in case something went wrong, and the "Magic Smoke" want's to come out of it, the Thermal Fuse jumps in and saves the day
Well, it can also be a verb, Tablatronix, especially on the other side of the pond, where it means the same as Earth in that context, as in "to connect a piece of electrical machinery to the ground so that it is safe.", according to Macmillan. I guess we have adopted the same terminology these days. Or not?
Yup, I eventually Googled this whilst editing the video! I must admit to not having heard of them before, but that's not surprising as I'm based in Europe and therefore everything here is CE (whether fake or real)! Thanks for the post, Silver Legend.
Hi Ralph, yes everyone knows that 230V is dangerous, I have been zapped a few times and still I do not fear mains voltage. Why the heck everyone must say it is, I for one are tired of hearing it all the time on youtube.
Just remember, Javier, that 30mA at 240v across your heart (eg from one arm to the other) is enough to stop your heart. Whether it spontaneously starts again... well, let's hope you never have to find out. I believe mains should be respected at all times. Electricity is a good servant but a very bad master! I can't afford to lose viewers so please take care!
Ralph S Bacon current and the heart are strange bedfellows. Yes there is a level that will certainly kill you as it also causes massive tissue damage. At lower levels there is the strange phenomenon that a somewhat larger current can be safer than a smaller current. Reason for that is that with the lower current your heart may be pushed into ventricular fibrillation: a lot of electric activity but with zero pumpfunction as the individual heart cells all contract uncoordinated. However with a slightly higher current the heart may be stopped completely and electrically 'wiped clean', which makes it possible for the heart to restart with all the cells contracting in sync again. Many sources will say that should you have wetskin your resistance will drop, leading to more current flowing through yr body, well yes and no. Yes more current but it will mostly go over and through ones skin. Nevertheless..... Electricity shouldn't be taken lightly.
The only thing you have to worry about with that PSU is the transformer, and sadly you can't tell what's going on inside without ripping it apart. Plug packs are the only "theoretically" safe option and that's if you're using approved ones, but are they really approved? That said only qualified people should be building or working on anything that runs directly from mains power.
I'm hoping that if a Wall Wart has been declared by a local/certified firm as "safe" (eg safe for medical use) with all the necessary certification, then hopefully someone has actually ripped a sample or two apart just to prove the claims of the component or module supplier. If they didn't independently ratify claims then they could (I'm hoping *would*) be held accountable on failure as I'm trusting them to supply me with a product that has more than a "CE" symbol stamped on it by a Chinese factory. That's why my most recent Wall Wart was (a) much more expensive than Chinese supplied ones, (b) was certified (by an international firm) safe for medical use. Fingers crossed!
I had Hi-Link SMPS and someone mounted it on a double-layer perforated prototyping board...
It obviously exploded. The power supply was a-ok, but the circuit board tracks vanished with a bang.
It was used in a small clock, so it was me who was fixing all these little boards. I just removed all the tracks near the mains connection and made some isolation slots so under no condition mains would connect straight to the safe 5V output. They still are serving that wall clock well after 5 years! :)
So it appears then, Penurious Sierra, that the HiLink module is pretty much OK, whether or not it strictly adheres to the standards prevalent in the western world. Sounds like you did a good job if things are still running well after 5 years! Thanks for posting.
Many moons ago (about 40 years), I was working on the electrics of an grand old UK house. So old in fact that the mains supply TO the house had been condemned. In the course of our work, rewiring and modernising fittings, we would often find that the was a potential difference between Earth and Neutral, even with the local switch/fuse box isolated from the live supply. This was due to the fact that our earth was connected to the local earthed electrode but the neutral (and live) came from a temporary supply running from a farm about 100 metres down the road. The resistance of the soil between the house and the farm was responsible for a voltage difference of about 10VDC. It was enough to cause a harmless, if alarming, spark whenever a neutral wire touched an earth wire.
Sounds dodgy, Michael. I wonder how much current would flow from the line input to that earth. Enough to blow a fuse or trip the circuit breaker? Glad you survived though!
With current specs and equipment I doubt that such an arrangement would even work. Back in the day, when the only protection was a fuse on the live line, there would have been nothing to stop the current between the neutral and the local earth line. I don't recall any switch on the neutral line (from the farm). The standard supply was in place before the house was used as for its intended purpose.
Hi Ralph,
yes the HLK-PM01 is only little more money. I would use a tiny mains supply but the box if metal or any switch is metal it must be mains earthed. The best way is to have "Double Insulated" with no exposed metal parts or wires. Send the clone and orignal to "Big Clives channel". He will do a high voltage isolation test and take the transformer apart as ther are many safey rules just in a wound transformer. For 99.9% a wallblock is best route. I don't truss the China and buy from Farnell and the like so the marking are real.
One point about mains supply it is normall 3 phase from the local stepdown transformer (10,000V) with neutral and earth. Most newish houses have plastic service pipies so Earth is supplied to the house along with 1 phase or bigger properties may have all phases. The phases are shared to the houses to try and balance the load. So never run an extension cord to a neighboughs house as it might be not the same phase! This means the return current along the neutral is not allways balanced and it might be a few volts well less than 10.
The cables do come in the pavement here and have broken sevaral times, once was the neutral, so depending on the load balance some houses had low volts and others high. The result was several items failed and were repaired or replace by the electricity company. But after about a year several more things failed as had been stressed. I now have my own earth rod in addition but is a poor 40 ish ohm while the supplied earth is 0.46 ohm.
USA has 120V and 240V normally just for the water heater.
Graham
@ Graham Wise:
All houses have 240 In Canada (as far as I know) Not only is the Hot Water 240 but also the dryer, baseboard heaters. Oh, And my hot tub.
I can already tell you the HLK-PM01 survived the high-voltage isolation tests but the TSP-05 failed it. No doubt Clive would have a field day with it. Interesting about the 3-phase transformer, probably more efficient to do it that way. And you've corroborated my Earth resistance fears from your own grounding rod. INteresting. Thanks for the post.
for those who watched all the video. Your are HEROES
A feat of endurance, certainly. 😁
@@RalphBacon LOL yea sorry i was rude :D
Yes would use them. I just purchased 2 of the un-potted versions, but the potted version makes more sense as far as keeping fingers/parts away from the mains. Great Video. Accidents happen when you take things for granted and this reminds me why i also need to ground the metal case also.
Oh yes, do ground the metal case if mains voltage is anywhere near it (or inside it). Phew! Thanks for posting, AdaBill.
Would be interesting to see some isolation tests, see if this power supply has over current and over temperature protection and a fuse that would perhaps reduce risk of fire.
I can't say, David, whether this one has overload/over temperature protection but the one I looked at in video #135 did have, and it was the sort of device that would be packaged up like this one. If I ever test it out I'll let everyone know.
You need to put mains filtering on this to use this for sensitive electronics like MCUs or SBCs. Just chuck in a y capacitor, fuse and a common mode choke on the mains input and 10uF capacitor on the output. I wouldn't use this on any commercial design though.
Great suggestions, HMPirates, but as you say it's all a bit dodgy anyway, never mind whether for a commercial design! Thanks for posting, nice to hear from you.
Am using these on pcb already. Working like a charm where you want to have a neat "small" sensor package
A Real World user! Now that's what we need to balance the voting a bit. Thanks for your post, Thomas.
Very well explained, mister Ralph !
Glad you liked it, Teodor!
Here in the USA 🇺🇸 distribution voltages are typically 4 kv or 12 kv. Those are transformed in a substation down from 33, 67, 150 kv, etc. Newer distribution lines are underground whereas a lot of older ones are overhead on poles. (Running them underground is a lot more expensive.)
The residential transformer usually has a center tapped 240 V secondary. The center tap is the neutral with two hot legs, so you can get either 120 or 240 V, depending on whether you connect an appliance to hot and neutral or between the two hot legs. Usually only the largest appliances use 240.
Then there are commercial and industrial services with 120/208 or 277/480 volt three phase...
It's interesting (to me, anyway) that the 110/115/120 voltage in the States seems to be insufficient for some items and that you then adopt the UK/Europe 240v when you need the extra grunt. I said "interesting", but I meant ironic, considering that Edison was the pioneer of electric power in his lighting. And you chose 60Hz instead of 50Hz. Or we chose 50Hz. Strange how we can't ever get a "standard" across the world that works! Thanks for posting Dave, nice to hear from you.
@@RalphBacon Edison was a DC man all the way. Tesla was the champion for AC current.
I will use them for relay driver board, which is anyway live and inside a plastic enclosure. For IOT final product, these are great. But for development and testing, I will use isolated lab power supply.
I think that is an eminently sensible approach!
*UL* is the Electrical Safety Board in the US.
Good to know, thanks for posting.
Thanks. Cover good points. Few days ago publish a video using one of the HiLink module to power a esp32 with some testing on different voltages.
Well, it seems that these modules are definitely on everyone's mind these days! Just watched your video, glad that it all seemed OK, but of course, you were testing the HiLink, not the TSP version (which fails the high voltage insulation test, allegedly). I like the way you install it on a board with screw terminals, which I sort of mentioned I wished were part of the module's design. Thanks for posting, pcbreflux.
Thanks, for watching. I bought the HiLink only for the cheap price, but didn't know if its different from the TSP. Someone mentioned that all modules without serial number and hologram-sticker are fake but luckily mine seams ok.
We never know whether they are fake or not (unless the performance is obviously sub-standard). But yours seemed OK, so perhaps they are real. My one must be fake too as it has no hologram on it. Sigh.
Thanks for another great lesson Ralph. I always learn something new. I think I'll stick with wall-warts.
Given the comments on this video, I'm definitely moving to that point of view as well, gpTeacher! Safety first and all that. Thanks for your vote.
Yes, I used the hi link ones in different output voltages a few times now and had no problems at all until now. I would use them again. Most stuff I place such things in are projects that won’t run for days on their own, so most of the time I will be in the room when they are powered. And of course I won’t touch even the low voltage output just in case.....
Very wise, Michael, not to touch anything whilst it is plugged in! Thanks for the vote and the post.
Hi Michael, you said "had no problems until now"... what problems are you having with the Hi-Link ones? I just bought a few, hence asking! Cheers
The biggest worry about this being unsafe is the transformer. You can not see the separation between the hi voltage winding and the low voltage winding without unwinding it. But that destroys it so it’s useless after you verify. So all you can do is judge their manufacturing techniques and then decide if that is enough to trust one you have not unwound. A ce Certified one will usually have triple insulation between the hi voltage and low voltage windings.
I took a chance and used this in my workshop heater repair (I totally replaced the "motherboard", see video #133, ruclips.net/video/TJHJeLOK6nk/видео.html ) and it's been fine but I don't leave the heater running when I'm not present. That said, if the PSU failed it would fry the Nano and other components, but I'm not sure it would do much more damage than that. Well, yes, it could burn down my workshop, I suppose.
I wouldn't be afraid of that circuit board design at all. Acceptable creepage given the overall size.
I'm more concerned with the suppression cap (If it fails, it MUST fail open circuit), the quality of the transformer and the opto-isolator
Hmm, from that last comment then, Christian, I'll put you down as a "probably wouldn't use". Is that right?
The grounding of the neutral happens only at 1 point. From there on neutral is the current return path. The earth/ground is there for protection only not for current return. The neutral is grounded/earthed to prevent a parasitic voltage build up of a fully floating system.
Agreed, randycarter2001, the neutral wire is the return path and the earth wire is only for protection (unless the neutral fails in some way, I suppose). But the neutral wire can be earthed at intermediate points along the route from the electricity supplier's transformer to your local distribution board (for you and your neighbours). How often this is done is only known to the supplier. Thanks for posting, goo to hear from you.
The problem with the wall wart solution is that sometimes you then need 2 outlets to do what you need to do….
Which is why I have many, many outlets in my workshop! Quick count: about 20 outlets connected permanently to mains, and double that connected to a switched system that I turn off when exiting the workshop in the evening.
@@RalphBacon having a switched system is a really good idea actually then you don’t have to worry if it’s going to explode and catch fire while you sleep
on a PCB you'd want some sort of shield covering the mains bits inside the case, 0.5mm mylar, 160 GSM fish paper etc...
And a big warning sticker that mains was inside the case! "No user serviceable parts inside" and "Disconnect from mains before removing case", are the usual disclaimers, not that it ever stopped me from taking the case off things. I'm lucky to be here, quite frankly.
My main concern would be using it in a module that goes inside the wall for some home automation project and having it fail, overheat and then burning down the house.
If i used one i'd probably add an external 90deg C thermal fuse in series with the mains input to the module. Then thermal epoxy the fuse to the case of the module on top. Any over temp failure would kill it's power before it got super hot. It might make it a little less safe from a shock hazard perspective, due to exposed mains thermal fuse on it, However that could be fixed with some heatshrink or a proper enclosure.
Or put it inside a metal box, that would be safe(r) too. I've used one in my workshop heater project and it's still going but I won't use that fan heater unattended.
In the datasheet of HLK-PM01 they suggest both a thermal fuse sticked to the case and a overcurrent fuse. When you use a component you must always look at the datasheet, failing to do so break manifacturer specs and intended safety of usage.
I've actually stuck a fork on a 220v outlet when I was little. Was curious on what made the tv work. Have a look at Traco power components.
Lucky it wasn't your tongue, webslinger2011, as otherwise I suspect we would not be having this conversation! Glad you survived your ordeal, thanks for posting.
I probably wouldn't install that, specially in equipment that could be unsupervised
However, looking at the design, i don't see a problem, that slot wouldn't make that much difference, whichever way you do it you still need a rectifier bridging
The important thing is the isolation of the transformer, a class Y capacitor between inpyt and output, and a good opto isolator for feedback (if used)
There's plenty of space under the transformer, and it looks like the secondary is an insulated wire (not just enamel wire)
You're saying all positive things about it, Sparky, but still wouldn't fit it into equipment (such as the gap between walls in my wooden workshop? Me neither!
If it were enclosed in a metal box it might be safer (I'm thinking of fire risk here). I might still use it in one of my projects... we shall have to wait and see. Thanks for your evaluation, always good to get other Arduinite opinions.
Just to clarify, just observing from this side of the screen, the isolation 'looks' fine, my concern would be from overheating and consequent fire.
I would never put electronics in a wall, not even those mains sockets with built in usb (electrician for 30 years)
btw, i'm not an arduino guy, still prefer the old analogue or digital IC's, i even prefer linear power supplies
And there's nothing wrong with linear power supplies (ideally with a toroidal transformer), they're just a bit bulky compared to switched mode supplies. But no high-frequency noise, either!
Regarding the overheating aspect of the 5v PSU, maybe I should connect one up, put a reasonable load on it and just let it run whilst monitoring it for an increase in temperature. Hmm, that could be interesting.
Forgot to mention, i don't see a problem with mounting on a pcb or stripboard, as long as there's space between input connections (same as spacing of pins), and remove tracks between primary and secondary, the current should be fine on standard stripboard, but you could poke your wires through next to the pins and bend them over to connect directly, would be more stable than the method you proposed
the safety gap between mains potential and output potential is that massive expanse of green in the middle of the board. there's no rule to separate mains input from other mains circuitry, only to separate mains circuitry from human facing conductors.
You're doubtless correct, although there does seem to be some kind of "rule of thumb" at the very least, according to John Ward, that 3mm between mains conductors and "other parts of the circuit" is desirable, perhaps with an air gap (eg a cut slot on the board). You can "get away with" 2mm and a gap, anything less than that is asking for trouble (the smallest amount of dust and it will arc.
But yes, this board is trying hard to be safe-ish, and as it's insulated against us poking screwdrivers into it I think it might be OK! Maybe!
Difference between screw and bolt is that the thread runs all the way to the head in a screw and only along part of the shank in the bolt.
Woodworkers diverge willy nilly from Engineering nomenclature.
I've posted what Wikipedia says, Bernd, on another post and now wish I had never mentioned anything! Bolts, screws, set screws - we all know what we mean (most of the time). I'm leaving it there! Thanks for posting.
I'm guessing someone has told you what UL means. As far as earth ground and neutral it's important to remember that earth ground isn't the same as neutral, it won't transmit nearly as much current which means it won't trip the breaker and you can get a major melt down.
Hmm, no longer true. The new wiring code (for the UK, at least) specifies that the CPC (Earth / Ground) has now to be the same gauge as the other wires. Oh, and it's now fully insulated, no more bare copper cores in a "twin and earth". About time.
Anyway, as long as the CPC is capable of carrying 30mA it will trip the breaker. That's the whole point, to save you before your heart gives out.
@@RalphBacon The are bonded in the main panel here (neutral & ground) and we use same gauge as well and usually insulated. I've just come across some hillbilly wiring where they were trying to use a hot lead and an earth-only ground for circuits with 120vAC 20-40 amp. A lot of wire melted before a breaker tripped.
😮
Strictly speaking they are called Set Screws. Bolts do not have the thread all the way to the Head.
I shall make a (mental) note of that fact, James - bolts do not have thread all the way to the top. Who knew? Well, you did, and now I do too. Thanks!
@@RalphBacon It's just a Pedantic thing, not important.
Hi when you magnetise you do not drag the tool all the way through just put the part you need magnetising in and pull back out.
Yes, I must practice doing this better, I think speed (or rather, slowness) of the operation is paramount. Thanks for the suggestion, Rob!
Sorry to say..The "China Export" mark doesn't actually exist. Nor does the difference between the CE marks matter. Both are as valid as each other, because CE is a self awarded mark. So no point looking at the mark, and deciding it is a good one or a bad one. No official inspection is made. It just means the manufacturer has said it conforms.
www.ce-marking.org/what-is-ce-marking.html
The China export thing comes from RUclips channels where Chinese goods are torn apart for entertainment value. Not from any official certification board. The initials are just a handy pair to make the joke with.
I'm assuming, John, that if a manufacturer does conform to CE rules, then they will also place the official CE logo on their product.
Those manufacturers that don't conform (but would like to pretend they do, or dupe buyers into thinking they do) might also put a CE logo on their product but rather than being that blatant about it, use the "non- conformant" CE letters (too close together for example). Maybe?
I don't know where I picked up the "China Export" from but it wasn't RUclips. But it's a good thing to be aware of, don't you think?
Ralph S Bacon the difference between the "real" ce mark and the "fake" are irrelevant, the reason is simple, because it is self awarded their is no vetting and if a "fake" one was placed on just for the purpose of coning consumers it would still run afol with consumer protection laws and tradmark violations, creating a very similar fake does nothing as far as law is concerned, the reason the logos are constantly messed up is more because on the inability for Chinese manufacturers to use the correct logo. As I've seen the fake version of the logo even on "good" manufacturers such as Samsung and lg from time to time. The long and short is if they are going to flaunt the law will do it the whole way, or at least as best as they know how since they clearly can get the logo right.
So the CE mark, may, or may not, mean anything! And if large suppliers like Samsung can get the logo wrong (indicating it might be a non-CE compliant product) then rogue traders can presumably put the "correct" logo on their equipment too! I give up, we can't be sure of anything anymore. Thanks for posting, Jay, good to know all this.
No it is not a self awarded mark, it is a mark that shows that the manufacturer has complied with EU legislation on the product.
I spoke to some people and also via email with the CE organisation, it is not a voluntary thing as you will find if you read up about it on the official website.
@@jaykoerner "China Export", its just youtubers fantasies. Besides, CE is not self awarded at all, yes the company has to fill and sign a form but it has to be backed by actual certificate from notified body and of course a (pass) test report from the certification lab. You wont clear any customs (at least in France) without these. As a design office we do handle CE certification process on behalf of our clients for the devices we design and produce.
If you never connected nuetral to earth doesn’t that mean you would not be shocked by touching the live or the neutral, you would need to touch both wouldn’t you?
If the Power Company did not connect one end of their 110V/240V transformer to ground (that we walk on) then you would not get a shock if you just touched just one of the mains cables, true.
Same as if you used an isolation transformer on your workbench (as I do).
But their transformers, from the power station to your house are grounded on the Neutral line at multiple locations (not least right at your house, possibly) so the chances are you will always get a shock if you touch the Line wire (but not the Neutral, probably, don't try it).
There are good reasons why the power companies do it this way, not least so we can detect overloads and prevent leakage current.
I use Hi-link with no problem at all, I can use flash test and pat test to make sure it is safe, I have so far use 5 of these.
Yes, cheetahkid, the HiLink version seems to be capable of passing the flash test, the TSP-05 less so. And thanks for the vote of confidence, several others also use the HiLinks although the general consensus (so far) is that Arduinites tend to steer clear of mains anything!
In engineering we called them set screws! Just to be pedantic! Does it really matter? Only if you're looking for them in the stores catalogue! Please keep it loose and spontaneous as it's entertainment after all! I do agree though that mains is a different game! Thirty five years in the electricity industry as an electrical fitter taught me that!
Not in the UK.
Stephen Cook Well I worked for 38 years in a Scottish power station as an electrical fitter and trust me they were called set screws! Even in the stores book!
Wikipedia says "There is no universally accepted distinction between a screw and a bolt. A simple distinction that is often true, although not always, is that a bolt passes through a substrate and takes a nut on the other side, whereas a screw takes no nut because it threads directly into the substrate (a screw screws into something, a bolt bolts several things together)." However...
However, it also says "A set screw is a type of screw generally used to secure an object within or against another object, normally not using a nut (see bolts compared with screws). The most common examples are securing a pulley or gear to a shaft. Set screws are usually headless (also called blind), meaning that the screw is fully threaded and has no head projecting past the major diameter of the screw thread... A blind set screw [is] known in the UK as a grub screw..."
See en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Set_screw and en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screw#Differentiation_between_bolt_and_screw
I wish I hadn't said anything about bolts and screws now .
Maybe its was just south of the border then, we called them machine screws in the various workshops I worked in.
Ralph S Bacon yes I'm sorry I mentioned it as well! I only did it for fun and didn't mean to be contentious! Like I said originally it doesn't really matter as long as you know what you mean! Humble apologies for setting the cat among the pigeons!
PCB is easy to judge visually. Transformers are a paint to take apart to make an educated guess. Isolation test meters with real high voltage are what makes testing fast.
You may not want to use tested parts though, if it has been fried for a minute and passed, it may fail the next second. Isolation testers are not really that expensive on ebay nowadays. A reasonable 4kV ac tester still costs perhaps $200 or a bit more. I think even the cheap 1kV testers are better than nothing though, if it fails on that is is not safe. If it doesn't it can be (but is not surely).
Well, hoggif, I took a gamble and used this 5v PSU in my video #133 when I fixed (replaced) my workshop heater control panel. It's worked fine for some months during the cold weather this year (2019) and I hope I don't burn down my workshop one day because I took a gamble with it!
The AC pins on the Hi-Link looks to have more space between them.
I can't say for sure, ki2azyone, but apparently it is 'enough' if what others say here is correct. Thanks for the post, good to hear from you.
LINE is voltage source
NEUTRAL is normal path back for voltage source
GROUND (100% copper or aluminum) backup path inside a building for voltage source
EARTH GROUND (not 100% wire but actually uses dirt) backup path for voltage source outside of buildings.
LINE to NEUTRAL normal use
LINE to GROUND has no resistance so will activate a breaker.
LINE to EARTH GROUND enough resistance that it will not pop a breaker but is an easier path sometimes than a human body and will trip an rcd or gfi safety mechanism
A lot of people think LINE to EARTH GROUND is enough to trip a fuse or breaker. It is not. A breaker will only pop with close to zero resistance which means 100% copper or aluminum. No dirt or human resistance.
Hmm. Given that the Neutral is connected to Earth either within the building (so connected to what the electricity supplier gives you as the Earth terminal) or further back up the line, I'm wondering how this affects things. Certainly in the olden days of telegraph (one wire) they had to pour water around the "Earth" spike to make it more conductive through the actual ground during dry spells before they switched to the more reliable two-wire system).
I have a few of these little PSU's. Didn't have any problems with it feeding my wemos. In fact I trust it more than some phone chargers.
Having said that... I only use them for wireless projects that are not galvanically connected to the rest of my infrastructure. For example for arduinos I use a decent wallwaers with a transformer... Not a phonecharger that only separates me from the grid via an unisolated capacitor.
Also..... CE doesn't mean that much. Can go to various validation bureaus that issue the CE certificate....... Based on what the manufacturer states
You're the second poster, Ed, that asserts that the CE logo is just not that useful. It might be *required* to sell or move your products in Europe, but if it's all self-regulated then I guess its worth is less than I had hoped. Interesting, thanks for posting.
Ralph S Bacon indeed. Main reason I don't shy away from this product is because it has a transformer inside..... Unlike many phonechargers. Thanks for the video
Hi Ralph, I would probably use one of these. But I would first test it to make sure I'd didn't get hot with my project. But I really tend to use small phone chargers (or the internals of them) for projects. But only Main Brands original ones (Nokia, Blackberry, Apple and Samsung), not cheap clones. Projects tend to become more miniaturized and for those we all seek small Power sources. In most cases that I can get by with a few volts on a small cable, I prefer to do that with a phone charger.
"Not Cheap Ones" ! BigClive raves about how, good the PoundLand ones are.
Thanks for that vote, Christian, and most comments on this subject seem to agree that "quality" chargers are the way to go. Thanks for posting.
UL is kinda the equivalent of CE in the USA.
Good to know, glad you can translate what I say into what you call English 😮😆
Mr. Bacon No way would I use one unless it is UL certified - I have used many that were without a problem. Now after many years. BUT I have had wall warts fail after only 5 years. But I still like them due to the failure was contained within the housing. Look for the UL label and at least it is been tested for dangerous construction and parts. UL is here in the US. I do not know about the CE label and cannot detect fake lettering. UL is almost as bad but check the company you are buying it from., I stick to my well known suppliers - that is the key for me.
And you are wise to take that stance, Dave. In Europe, the equivalent to the UL is the CE (conformite European - it's French) which ensures standards are met. Unfortunately, some unscrupulous Far Eastern companies have decided CE stands for China Export instead and stamp all their goods accordingly. You never know what you're buying these days.
In the US, it's 120V+ It's just a tickle!
Just a tickle as it races across your chest and stops your heart, you mean? I'm very wary of mains, whatever the voltage!
In fact 120v is more dangerous because you need the double of amperes to work.
@@idcarlos - *NOPE!*
"Yes, you should totally get one of these incredibly useful tools that I can't for the life of me get to work properly"
Which tool was that (apart from me)?
The magnetiser. You were raving about how good it was, and how we should all get one, and then it just didn't bloody work.
@@SodAlmighty Hahaha, again, another comment that I was about to make myself, but someone already made it :) Yep, totally thought I needed one of those until I saw Ralph using it :)
29:48 Is this Earth cable wired in a way that would allow moisture, rain, etc, to run down and cause issues, corrosion resulting in a poor connection ?
I see your concern, but given that this is an outdoor ground stake I'd be surprised if it made much difference with or without a drip loop. Better would be to thoroughly cover the connection with a decent grease or petroleum jelly (just like your car battery) to protect it. Guess what? That's what I have done to my own ground stake for my workshop which reminds me I ought to check it before Winter sets in this year ⛄
I agree that vigortronix is expensive - For £7 you can buy an OFFICIAL raspberry pi PSU (with multiple country adaptors) and it provides 2.5A - the vigortronix is only 1A... On getting shocked, i've been shocked twice by mains voltage when I was a kid - I survived unscathed but I still avoid it when possible.
And I'm very glad that you survived that 'shocking' experience, Darren. That's a good price for an official PI PSU, and a great idea too, many agree. Thanks for the vote!
The outer case is made of insulting polymer material, so it is meaning less to have the mains earth conductor connected to the case for safety reason. On he other hand, I have seen a number of European products as well as korean electric home appliances with metal cases but only it's mains cable only have L and N conductors, NO earth path at all!
Tell me about it, steve b. There are some shocking practices going on out there with potentially very serious repercussions for the end-user. I hear what you say about the case being plastic here, but I'd still like whatever this component is cased in to be earthed unless that is plastic too. There's a big problem with the simple, single-channel Sonoff IMHO; only an L and N connection that encourages users, unaware of the danger, to leave any E wire cut off. Thankfully, the 4-channel version is much better. Thanks for posting, nice to hear from you.
I am not surprised that Javier Palla Lorden survived his experience with 230V, many others have. Dense tissue offers a greater resistance to current than less dense tissue does. So, if you are as dense as he is, you to may survive, provided the current does not traverse the heart.
The important issue, in the context of Ralph's video, is that as a maker, a lack of caution in isolating users from mains voltage (be it 110v, 240v or 415v) may result in somebody else (perhaps one of your children) receiving an electric shock. Now many people survive electric shocks but the statistics (or should I say corpses) indicate that electricity can and does kill. So, do you have the right to gamble that all the users of the end product of your project are as dense as Javier Palla Lorden?
I concur that having a cavalier attitude towards mains-powered projects is a recipe for disaster. Done right, it can be very safe. Done wrong, or poorly, it's like a little ticking time bomb...
I would only use them in a system that would only be running while I am present. No turn on and leave.
Yes, that is pretty much what I have done, Joseph. I used it in my Workshop Heater project (video #133) but I only have that running when I am actually here. You can see it here: ruclips.net/video/TJHJeLOK6nk/видео.html
Ralph, having made this video you can get off the Naughty Step. Arduinites are now informed and encouraged to learn this stuff. I agree there are few advantages in using these over a wall wart. Someone may get hurt. Just not worth it.
You go off piste at 28:46 when you draw a connection from the transformer core laminations to earth. This is never done. It would have been better had you connected the primary and secondary neutrals to earth. This would demonstrate changing a ‘floating’ (= isolating) transformer into one that is ‘ground referenced’. To save you the bother, here is a John Ward video for those that wish to know, including the centre connection of earth. ruclips.net/video/fRhofcMyAyk/видео.html
I use the HILINK converter shown in the video. I have mounted mine in several ceiling roses where it converts the 240V AC to power a 3W led. Good for cupboards and small rooms. This is now redundant as Screwfix now offer LED lights, cheaper than rolling your own.
I'm so pleased to get off the naughty step! And I must say (it probably came across in the video) that there are several disadvantages in using this device when a wall wart does it all more safely as long as you get a decent quality one.
Regarding the earthing of a transformer's core, I mentioned it because I once had a (decent) PSU that had this, although whether it was to protect the operator in the event of a meltdown or to divert any high voltages induced into the core is unclear.
Thanks for the information on your usage of the HiLink version, and for posting.
in-out repeatedly only with the tip, that is how the magnetizer is suppose to be used, dont yeet her through.
Useful to know!
I think its safer to use a good mobile charger.i'm also scared to combine live electric on a mcu .
Yes, it's not for the faint-hearted, Mina. Although this PSU _is_ isolated from the mains. But still a bit close to the live electrics! I've used one now in my Workshop Heater Repair and so far it's OK. So far. We shall see if it survives this year's cold weather!
If I really need one like this, I'd get one UL listed from digikey or mouser (I'm in Canada). Most likely "meanwell" brand. Not too expensive and good for any use. I mention "meanwell" because it's "far east". "far east" peoples can do any quality you want. If you willing to pay $1, power supply will be with quality of $1.
If device will be in hands and/or have metal case, I'll get "medical" certified version of it. Allegedly more reliable and safe.
Otherwise I'll stick to "traditional" power supplies.
Yes, just because it originates from the Far East does not mean poor quality. Apple builds some of its stuff over there under stringent quality conditions. Thanks for your vote for "traditional" power supplies, many agree with you.
I wouldn't use one. I'd stick to either a wall wart or build a PSU with OTS components and a transformer if it was for a PCB.. It seems pointless.
This does have a transformer inside, Stephen, although not a true isolating transformer in the traditional sense. But the fact of the matter is that I used one on a project which you can watch in amazement, video #133, working great so far (not during the summer).
actually your isolation needs a little looking up... phase and neutral separation is only about 1.5mm, primary to the secondary is about 5mm
Good to know, Simon, and thankfully not something I do much of. But 1.5mm seems very small, and I don't doubt you, but I would like to see it bigger! Thanks for clarifying, and for posting.
Thanks for sharing :-)
Thanks for that, Asger Vestbjerg, nice to hear from you.
Hey Ralph, with the solar panel strips you didn’t mention what material they were made out of? As a side note, everything oxidises in the presence of oxygen it’s just some oxides are beneficial by creating a layer that prevents further oxidisation (Zinc for example) and some even oxidise without oxygen. This is a simplistic interpretation of a more complex reaction that occurs at the atomic level and is heavily dependent on the electro-potential of the base elements involved.
They are made, MrVajutza, as far as I know from copper or aluminium (or even silver, but not the ones I had!), but as you saw (I hope) they are fully tinned, whether that's to make them easier to solder to just to protect them from the weather I cannot say. Good question, thanks for posting.
Ralph S Bacon they are not weatherproof. On solar panels they are encapsulated in epoxy. You can't use these as resistive sensors for moisture. You need capacitive sensors if you don't want corrosion.
Yes Ralph, I would use one of these. It is a low current device (max 600mA), the separation is decent and it's encapsulated. No different than using a PCB mount relay really. I would not connect incoming AC wire directly to the PSU pins but would rather run short tracks (and put kapton tape over the tracks) from the pins to a terminal block. Thanks for taking one apart....saves me doing so! As for the magnetizer/demagnetizer see ruclips.net/video/8nKfbZYjN8I/видео.html
Good link to that magnetizer, standishgeezer, and the video that followed it, I knew that there was a knack for getting it to work (demagnetise) each time. Thanks for your vote on the PSU and the way you'd do it. All very interesting, thanks for posting.
Good, I want to make a good power supply the same size as the one that showed in the video.
I was thinking of using the abs10 rectifier bridge, and the integrated lm364dn. but still missing more components to make the font.
thank you for help on how to do
Glad you found this useful, Pedro, and thanks for posting.
@@RalphBacon good, I would appreciate your help to a better source than this
Also, for rain sensor:
Use arrays of graphite electrodes! ;)
That's an interesting suggestion, although isn't graphite very fragile? Perhaps we could use graphite welding rods if that is the same stuff. Thanks for the suggestion!
@@RalphBacon How about pencil "leads" glued to some non-conductive substrate?
Some HLK-PM01 have the "CE" mark on them, are they better or just fakes ?
Well, far be it for me to be cynical, Adrian, but the Chinese factories have decided that CE actually stands for "China Export" and it's pure coincidence that we use CE to mean "Conformité Européenne". Basically, unless you're buying an iPhone, the CE is not likely to mean very much.
That doesn't mean it _can't_ mean anything. There must surely be some Chinese factories selling to European companies that will demand real CE markings (and the certificate to prove it). But the price will probably reflect that.
Buy mains / household voltage products from China with both eyes open.
@@RalphBacon Thanks, I saw some reference about the CE in the video, but I wasn't fully focused on all video :)
Hi Ralph, I for one would not use such a device (certified or not) as I am a firm believer in having AC and DC circuits totally separated electrically - pluging this device into (say) a breadboard, PCB or perf board etc., to my thinking during development of a particular project etc., is simply asking for trouble - we all only have one life and adversely using AC mains is a one way ticket to the Pearly Gates or to shovelling coal in much hotter places! I have attached a link to a very good article which shows and describes earthing, grounding etc and includes their respective symbols together with a number of additional "earthing/grounding" symbols not usually seen.
www.allaboutcircuits.com/technical-articles/an-introduction-to-ground/
In Australia we (and I also believe in UK) use the term Earthing when referring to mains "earthing". In USA they appear to use "grounding" when referring to the same thing albeit at different AC voltages. Either way I have seen many youtube examples (and also professional articles who should have known better) where earthing/grounding and chassis ground symbols are mixed up - which could be problematic for the uninitiated. Anyway that's my twopennith input! Cheers.
It's a veritable minefield, Ian. But electrically speaking, the term "ground" refers to the current circuit's ground reference, where the current returns to, which could still have a positive potential relative to Earth or other parts of the circuit. So "ground" does not mean Earth (the stuff we walk on), in an electrical sense, in all cases at all. But Earth definitely refers to the stuff we walk on, and "earthing" means just that, connecting your chassis (or whatever) to a ground spike into the ground, usually all done via your electricity supplier's wires. And confusingly, Neutral is always connected to Earth at some point along that wire. I did say minefield!
Just ask them for a CE certification for the item, if they are, they will have one. If they send you anything else then you can bet your rear that they're not...
And even worse, Mark, is that the CE certification doesn't appear to be worth very much, allegedly, according to the comments by others on this video. Who knew?
I recently tried to buy and I am some 3 months on still waiting for the shipping agents to pass the NEMA 17 Brackets
The shipping agents was insisting on the CE certification and wiring diagrams and technical spec of the NEMA 17 Brackets.
*face palm* tried to explain that CE didn't pertain to the part I ordered, shipping agent disagreed and despite contacting the CE Association directly and they even emailed me and agreed that the "Bracket" did not have to conform to any certification as it didn't pose any risk, like electrical parts can...
Someone in the shipping agents doesn't seem to get it and the seller doesn't seem to understand that their choice of wording is pretty poor and the whole reason that these brackets have been returned by the agents twice now.
Told the seller to simply change the wording to get around that because the agent is seeing NEMA and demanding paperwork.
So some shipping agents do seem to be conforming.
My concern will be all the toxic waste we will be getting again when we deal direct again with China and BREXITERS have had their day... The days when your pencil could give you skin cancer will soon be back on the cards...
How about earthing the arduino too? Cause you are expecting that the arduino is floating now.
It's not the Arduino that needs grounding, it's the metal container (if any) that it's in. Better to have it double insulated in a nice plastic box.
@@RalphBacon Ya that was the idea. But the way you described it made me think that the arduino would been floating alone. In general ofc it would be best to ground the case all the way to same ground.
Thou good video anyway important issue. Building myself printerspooler with ethernet based on orange pi and going embedded inside the laser printer which doesnt have ethernet but usb. Found better alternative to myself to fit the needs with: www.elfadistrelec.fi/fi/dc-power-supply-5w-5v-1a-recom-rac05-05sk/p/30113026?q=*&pos=3&origPos=565&origPageSize=10&track=true
The laser printer has its own switch mode powersupply that has 80v and 5v rails that i measured. But not sure how tight the components are measured to be. Also its pretty old psu in general.
Thou it would be ofc safer to use lower voltages than 230v mains.
Would be more convenient/easier approac for me to take power from main switch of the printer with additional small (230v 0.2A) fuse to this small encapsulated psu in parallel than try to poke around somewhere 10w out from 5v rail.
Good video.. 😉 I just missed a few examples for What would Be safe as an example? I need 5volt (Yes 5v Not 3.3v) for a ESP8266 relay module (connected to the 220v light) Would a led power supply 5v from AliExpress work? An outlet adapter would mean I would have to put an extra wall socket on The wall next to the lights? Anybody have any ideas? Or would HLK-PM01 in a plastic junction box Be safe enough?!
Any help would Be much appreciated.. Thanks
You could use a 5v mini power supply like the ones I showed in video #105. Not the blue "unsafe" version, but the black HLK-PM01 which most viewers think is OK. It can only deliver 600mA and I wouldn't push it past 500mA but it may be just what you need to drive an EPS8266 Relay Module @ 5v.
Just noticed you already mentioned this item! Seems we are on the same page then.
Simple answer Ralph, NO I would not use one of those. "I didn't get where I am today by messing about with the mains." A little spot of paraphrasing CJ from The Fall and Rise of Reginald Perrin. I have a good, solid, old-fashioned linear bench power supply with a monster of a transformer in it, a pair of gorgeous moving coil panel meters (cos digital really ain't all that) and it is properly fused and earthed. I can trust that because I know it is safe. It is worth noting the mains voltage in the UK can vary from 216 to 253 V RMS and the peak is higher (multiply that RMS value by the square root of 2 to get the peak and then remember the peak voltage is reached twice in each cycle - and there are 50 of those every second!!) For these reasons I never get involved with the mains, ever.
www.bbc.co.uk/education/guides/zqq77ty/revision/4
Ha Ha! Yes, I got that reference even before I'd read to the end of the sentence, Nick. I can see that you are a man of little faith in things at mains voltage and certainly not if made in the Far East! I had a PSU just like yours many years ago, but unfortunately, the transformer decided to call it a day and that was that. It was cost prohibitive to replace it and digital, switch mode is now where I am. So far so good, but that was a really good power supply...
To be honest Ralph I am really not a fan of Switched Mode although I do also own another bench PSU that is switched but I very rarely use it. My father was a sparky by trade so I learned to respect the mains at a very young age.
I think you magnetized your loose screws.
I came to that conclusion too, Mark, when they started sticking to one another! Doh!
My life is worth £7,00 so I would go with the real thing like we used to do.
The Real Thing being the more expensive Vigortronix version, I'm assuming? Rather than a decent plug-in PSU (eg for a Pi) that others are suggesting is safer? Thanks for voting, Bob.
@@RalphBacon Hi Ralph yes the Vigortrix as this item would be tucked away in a unit or cupboard to supply an item with low power so if it combusted then you have a major problem so pay a bit more it is worth it
volts don't kill, amps do
Correct. And, for a human, as little as 30mA can stop the heart. Good point.
I'm still curious about that.. And stil did'nt found any English Speaking RUclipsr that actually tested them Live.. But at least according to a Russian RUclips Video here ruclips.net/video/ijVK07TjL3g/видео.html i now know that the case can't burn and i know the Temperatur of the Module.. So what i'm going todo is, to just put a 80C Thermal Fuse right next to it, connected to the main input.. And in case something went wrong, and the "Magic Smoke" want's to come out of it, the Thermal Fuse jumps in and saves the day
I'm using one in my workshop heater control panel (see video #133) and it's still going strong!
ground
noun
1.
the solid surface of the earth.
sigh
I think it would be X or Z in a virtual world. Not sure.
+6378km Z
Well, it can also be a verb, Tablatronix, especially on the other side of the pond, where it means the same as Earth in that context, as in "to connect a piece of electrical machinery to the ground so that it is safe.", according to Macmillan. I guess we have adopted the same terminology these days. Or not?
'UL' = Underwriters Lab (American)
Yup, I eventually Googled this whilst editing the video! I must admit to not having heard of them before, but that's not surprising as I'm based in Europe and therefore everything here is CE (whether fake or real)! Thanks for the post, Silver Legend.
The CE mark is a farce as it's self-awarded and therefore just about meaningless. I believe that UL is more trustworthy.
учите руский ничего не понятно
что в итоге брат ьто ?
синие или чёрные ?
синие дешевле а чёрные дороже
Hmm, Google translate had problems with your Russian but if you are asking which device is safe(r) then I have used both types quite successfully.
CE can also stand for 'Crap from (for) Europe'!
Oh, definitely Crap FOR Europe. Or Crap for Everyone. Frankly, I'm appalled at how useless this certification appears to be! I used to rely on this!
Hi Ralph, yes everyone knows that 230V is dangerous, I have been zapped a few times and still I do not fear mains voltage. Why the heck everyone must say it is, I for one are tired of hearing it all the time on youtube.
Oh my. Stand well back!
Today's Darwin Award goes to .....
Keep on the good work, and we will see you on the news.
Just remember, Javier, that 30mA at 240v across your heart (eg from one arm to the other) is enough to stop your heart. Whether it spontaneously starts again... well, let's hope you never have to find out. I believe mains should be respected at all times. Electricity is a good servant but a very bad master! I can't afford to lose viewers so please take care!
Ralph S Bacon current and the heart are strange bedfellows. Yes there is a level that will certainly kill you as it also causes massive tissue damage. At lower levels there is the strange phenomenon that a somewhat larger current can be safer than a smaller current. Reason for that is that with the lower current your heart may be pushed into ventricular fibrillation: a lot of electric activity but with zero pumpfunction as the individual heart cells all contract uncoordinated. However with a slightly higher current the heart may be stopped completely and electrically 'wiped clean', which makes it possible for the heart to restart with all the cells contracting in sync again.
Many sources will say that should you have wetskin your resistance will drop, leading to more current flowing through yr body, well yes and no. Yes more current but it will mostly go over and through ones skin. Nevertheless..... Electricity shouldn't be taken lightly.
The only thing you have to worry about with that PSU is the transformer, and sadly you can't tell what's going on inside without ripping it apart. Plug packs are the only "theoretically" safe option and that's if you're using approved ones, but are they really approved? That said only qualified people should be building or working on anything that runs directly from mains power.
I'm hoping that if a Wall Wart has been declared by a local/certified firm as "safe" (eg safe for medical use) with all the necessary certification, then hopefully someone has actually ripped a sample or two apart just to prove the claims of the component or module supplier.
If they didn't independently ratify claims then they could (I'm hoping *would*) be held accountable on failure as I'm trusting them to supply me with a product that has more than a "CE" symbol stamped on it by a Chinese factory. That's why my most recent Wall Wart was (a) much more expensive than Chinese supplied ones, (b) was certified (by an international firm) safe for medical use. Fingers crossed!
120vac 60hz in the US
Low quality "wall warts" are just as dangerous if they break down and pass through mains voltage.
Indeed they are, John, as this video also shows the result of a failed wall wart. Hopefully, the "official" Pi plug-ins are built up to a standard.