Fretless violin bass, upright bass comparison
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- Опубликовано: 3 окт 2024
- Violin bass, custom kit from Pit Bull Guitars. Strung with D’Addario Chromes. Recorded with iPad. The upright is unamplified. The violin bass is amplified to roughly match the volume of the upright, but you are still hearing some of the acoustic sound. I recorded this not as a “shootout”, to prove a point one way or another, but because I know that there are people like me who are interested in being able to catch some of that upright vibe on an instrument that is easier to travel with, and can be left for longer in a hot car. Also cheaper, and more accessible for people who already play bass guitar....
Ain't nothing like the real thing. But son of a gun, that little guy sure comes close!
Takamine TB10 is pretty much like the real thing, incredible instrument really, check it out. This one is not bad either.
ruclips.net/video/af5eGFt-rDI/видео.html
That might be the most american sentence i have ever read.
@@silasabrahamsen7926 that made me chuckle
I’d love to get my hands on a Takamine. They cost more than my upright though. The little guy was only a few hundred dollars.
They both sound super
I like the magnetic neck pickup on the violin bass.
that upright bass sounds awesome!!
I've also discovered that if you hold a violin bass vertically (hold it between your legs when sitting) and pluck it like an upright where 14th fret would be, it sounds even closer to a proper contrabass.
Now that I think about it, the fretless violin bass is just a miniaturized version of the upright bass.
Except without the hollow body
@@badibuzi6616 you're right, the violin bass is electric.
@@marvinthemaniac7698 I have no doubt some (semi-)hollow, short scale fretless basses are out there, though
@@badibuzi6616 there's the fretless U-bass by Kala.
The violin bass is actually fully hollow.
It really all depends so much on the miking and the room's acoustics. The upright has a more booming , fuller sound. Alot of that due to a difference in string length. Sometimes the upright acoustic can sound too boomy and muddy. I actually prefer upright electric with the traditional 41 inch string length.
Very beautiful sounds. Really like Upright Bass
man, this man got feelin'!
Nice one Ben, they both sound great!
Ha! Thanks Aaron!
That sounds AMAZING.
Good sounds out of both! I’d not cast either instrument out of playing circulation :)
Sounds very good.
Nice! I’m learning something here
Not bad!
I LOVE to play along to upright bass music on E-bass.
Very good sound!
one issue with the electric is, that if you turn the amp up high or record through the pickups only, you loose all that acoustic sound
I love the electric.
Also I love your swing feel when you play. Dare I ask how long have you been playing for?
Thank you! It’s complicated. I’ve played fretless electric for nearly 40 years. But.... There were periods of many years when I didn’t play much at all. About 15 years ago I started playing and practising regularly and consistently. Started on upright only 7 or 8 years ago. Before that I stupidly had some resistance to it, as I always played a bass that I built myself, which I told myself was “my sound”. My sound is actually the way I play on any instrument.
@@benbrinkhoff Indeed it is!
You figures out what i figured out! 🤘🏿
the violin bass isn't quite as deeply resonant, what is just the way it is. That is just about as close as anything I have heard, being a double bassist. Sounds fantastic!
AWESOME
Awesome stuff; I have always dreamed of taking the frets off a violin shape. I might have to take your lead and build one as well!
It's so impressive how much it sounds like upright. It's like cheating!!
great sound on the e bass, did you defret the neck yourself? they don't seem to have a fretless neck on the website and also they come with two pickups slots not one. thanks.
It was a special order.
Upright sounds so much better.
I’m planning on getting one of the cheapo Hofner Ignitions and defretting it, adding a piezo pickup under the bridge with a separate output jack. Up till now I didn’t really know what it would sound like but this helps me feel like it’s a smart move
Hi Brandon, you might have more luck, but I’ve tried various piezos on this and other semi-acoustic basses, and they’ve mostly serve to add nasty upper midrange junk that needs to be eq’ed out. Magnetic pickups do a much better job of amplifying body characteristics than you might think. They’re sitting on that resonant soundboard, picking up vibrations from strings whose movement is affected by the body….
@@benbrinkhoff I definitely have seen how acoustic guitar piezo pickups are very hit-or-miss. They never end up sounding like the actual instrument unplugged. So your reply doesn’t surprise me. It’s good news for me because going with the magnetic pickups saves quite a bit of money, time, and effort. Thanks for the advice!
you can get that violin bass closer with labella tapewound strings, but emulating an upright 100% is darn near impossible , lots of sting sound bloom/decay is because that huge body is a 40" speaker...the marcustico gets the closest and 2nd would be the ibanez srh500f
Those tapewounds are nice. I’ve had them on another bass. You can get an electric bass to do some kind of emulation of an upright in a youtube recording, but the sound in the room, and the experience of playing one, is vastly different. I’d love to get my hands on a Marcustico.
@@benbrinkhoff just ordered one for upright also . Marcustico, man gorgeous tone, $4g+ ruclips.net/video/vTzuDVM2L18/видео.html
@@benbrinkhoff same here
Nice!✌🏻
Make more videos with this instrument please
Perhaps if the violin bass had a chambered body it would sound something closer to your upright.
Also some way of Miking the string fretboard contact sound and blending it with pickups on the violin bass could do something for you.
Finally the style or the way the notes are selected and played as an upright player would could complete the mood even for an arranger whose immagination will fill in the gaps.
Even the missing notes?
Thanks Glenn. It is actually a fully hollow body. I’ve tried various ways of using piezo pickups, but found I preferred the sound of the magnetic pickup alone - it captures enough of the string and body sound for my taste. What do you mean “missing notes”?
Nice
I need two.
Check this cat out! Fantastic
Inspirational. Assuming you connected the hot and ground pickup wires directly to the output jack, was it sufficiently grounded that way, or did you also run another ground wire to the tailpiece and, if so, where did you run it from? Many thanks.
Thanks! Yes, just connected earth to the tailpiece/pin.
@@benbrinkhoff Thanks, but what was the tailpiece/pin earth wire connected to? For example, did you run an additional earth wire from the output jack to the tailpiece?
Yes, exactly that.
@@benbrinkhoff Appreciate it.
Thanks so much for the video pal. Is the violin bass semiacustic?
Thanks! Yes, it’s fully hollow.
@@benbrinkhoff hey i was wondering the specs of your bass I would like to buy one myself sounding exactly like yours
Here’s the standard kit - www.pitbullguitars.com/shop/guitars/pit-bull-guitars-hb-4-electric-bass-guitar-kit/
I ordered mine with a blank fingerboard, no bridge pickup, no control plate, no routing for those of course. The neck pickup is wired straight to the jack.
Dat klinkt als een upright.
How did you cover the holes in the kit? Did you custom make that top?
These basses don’t normally have holes….
Νice tune 🎶
Excellent I believe the flat wound are a must have. Are Ddario Chrome's specifically flatwound
Yes, Chromes are flatwound.
The double-bass wins imo, but still that violin fretless delivers a very nice tone. If for any reason you can't carry the upright to a gig, this is a worthy replacement.
That was the plan!
hey Ben, I've been searching for a while how to get the closest sound of the upright bass in a electric/semi-acoustic bass, and this was so impressive! I saw the other video with the Teisco too, awesome. Both basses have short scale!!? I found a semi-acoustic bass here (in chaotic brazil), condor bba4.. its body is very large, like an acoustic guitar. the pickups are placed in the same place, near the neck. but the scale lenght is long.. (its like a ibanez afb200). do you think i can get a similar sound if i take out the frets and put flat strings in this long scale? and of course, talking about the tone of the instrument, disregarding the style, excellence and experience that you play the bass. its beautiful to hear and watch..
Thanks Victor! To get some upright-like flavour on bass guitar, don’t underestimate the importance of technique, and general approach to playing, note choice, note length, etc. A few things about the actual instrument make it easier too though. As you say, hollow, fretless, flatwounds are the most important. Counter-intuitively, short scale can do something good for the tone too, though that’s a less important factor I think. I did a very brief search for info on the Condor - seems it might be medium scale...? I’m sure you could make that bass work for your purposes in any case. All the best!
@@benbrinkhoff thanks! I bought this Condor and the scale is long.. I search this model on google and it appears another similar bass with the medium scale.. I will buy some flatstrings first of all to see.. then I will think to get out the frets.. I read all the coments and didnt find it.. the Daddario Chromes that u are using is 040 or 045?
45s I think. But I think your decision about string gage will be more about your preference for string tension, rather than tone. Bear in mind tension will be higher on a longer scale. I’m sure you’ll get on well with the Condor! Longer scale has its tonal advantages too...
Nice sound of the electric bass. That is a single neck pickup which is what I'm looking for. Could you send the link to puchase that kit?
It was a special order from www.pitbullguitars.com/
Very Nice sound, nice played from you!
Was it a special fretless set from pitbullguitars (I find only a fretted beatles bass there) or did you use another neck?
BW
Peter
It was a special order.
.... including the fretless neck.
You can get a similar sound from an EB-0 by plucking further up the neck.
Both are great, but in this case, I liked fretless violin bass better...
I think that with La Bella's 0.52 or 0.49 you might get closer than with Chromes
Yeah, true, might try them sometime....
Hello Ben, is it possible to put a capo on both of the basses? It might make it easier to play in other keys... Spike
But there’s not really much point in playing anything in any key other than F#, most of the time. Except Careless Whisper - that has to be in D#.
An electric bass kinda needs electricity to get its sound. A nice Ampeg combo with some light subtle overdrive is what makes an electric bass shine.
I hear what you’re saying. I amplified this just to match the level of the upright. At this point you can hear the inherent sound characteristics of the bass fairly well I hope. At greater volume (Ampeg, overdrive, or not) there will be more harmonic richness (inherent in the upright) and eq potential. There’s a sweet spot with the smaller instrument were you get that richness, but it retains enough of its acoustic sound. Maybe a future video....
@@benbrinkhoff this is still a superb demo. Also, I really like the tone of D'Addario Chromes on a electric but I want to hear tapewound strings too. I only play electric bass. I wish I had the space (and the funds!) to get a really nice upright bass.
Thanks! It’s a long time since I had tapewounds on a bass. I reckon I’ll try some again soon.
Hey that’s a great sounding bass! Which kit is that? I keep seeing only the 2 pickup models. The single pickup is dope! I could use this on bebop gigs! No volume knob?
It was a special order from Pit Bull Guitars. Pickup wired straight out - set (on the amp) and forget. No volume control on the upright….
@@benbrinkhoff damn that sounds so sweet! Any chance you’d be willing to help a fellow out with getting one?
@@billyretrogamer Two possibilities - get in touch with Pit Bull Guitars (pitbullguitars.com) and do a special order, which may take a few months, depending upon where they are up to in their cycle. Alternatively, I actually have mine for sale for AU$450…. Get in touch with me at b.brinkhoff@gmail.com if you’re interested in discussing that. Cheers! Ben
@@billyretrogamer Two possibilities - get in touch with Pit Bull Guitars (pitbullguitars.com) and do a special order, which may take a few months, depending upon where they are up to in their cycle. Alternatively, I actually have mine for sale for AU$450…. Get in touch with me at b.brinkhoff@gmail.com if you’re interested in discussing that. Cheers! Ben
@@billyretrogamer Two possibilities - get in touch with Pit Bull Guitars (pitbullguitars.com) and do a special order, which may take a few months, depending upon where they are up to in their cycle. Alternatively, I actually have mine for sale for AU$450…. Get in touch with me at b.brinkhoff@gmail.com if you’re interested in discussing that. Cheers! Ben
With a piezo pickup maybe it would sound even closer.
I did try a couple of different piezo pickups on this bass, and ended up preferring the magnetic alone. I found the mag picks up enough of that “hollow body” sound for my liking, whereas the piezo, on such a small body, just gave too much of those nasty, quacky, tinny sounds. Wasn’t worth blending that in. Worth pointing out though, that at the volume I recorded this, you do hear some of the acoustic sound of the violin bass.
The violin bass sounded to me much thinner, more like a typical electric bass, maybe if you put it a Fender Wide Range or a Gibson style Mudbucker, it will sound closer to a proper upright.
At this volume (electric bass matching the acoustic volume of upright) there’s no contest. Electric bass will never replicate the rich, three dimensional sound of upright. At higher volume though, upright loses some of its unique acoustic sound, and there’s more you can do with eq for electric bass.
@@benbrinkhoffi think that almost every electric instrument loses some of the three dimensional sound of the acoustic instruments, i think that is mostly because amps are created to sound directly to the front.
@@benbrinkhoff ---I know what you are saying. And, to tell the truth, the last few months I've been on a sort of Beatle bass kick on RUclips listening to various players play the Hofners and all the other versions, both fretted and fretless. I'm a retired USAF piano player (27 years in the USAF Bands all over the world) and have had a fair amount of time working with a good number of bassists, both acoustic and electric. You are correct about the fretless you are playing in this video, but I have to say something---you have probably the nicest sound and technique for swing I've heard on that instrument (fretless violin bass) in my life. Keep on playing it along with your acoustic. There's plenty of room and situations where one might be more advantageous than the other. Great video and thanks for posting it!
@@peterharrison5833 Thanks very much Peter! In the end, they’re just different instruments, horses for courses.... and the task is to make the best music you can whichever you’re playing. Of course I wasn’t trying to prove a point (either way!) by making the video, just letting people hear them side by side, as I know there’s plenty of interest in catching some of the upright vibe on an instrument that has some practical advantages in some situations.
@@benbrinkhoff You're welcome. You're right about the bottom line being making the best music you can on the instrument you're playing that evening. I always had a laugh on the horn players in the AF who would complain about adjusting to a new instrument. I'd ask if they'd like to do that every night, which is what I've had to do on some tours. All the pianos, if they were well taken care of, would play great....but there were always lots of little details that I'd have to get used to real fast in order to play the gig that night. The other thing is pianos in bars have a tendency to go from sort of ok to downright atrocious. After I'd tell them that story, they'd usually walk away mumbling under their breath about some "insensitive jerk" named Pete, LOL! When young pianists would ask me about this, I'd tell them that sometimes you don't get a choice. One night it's a Maserati, the next night it's an old Chevy truck with about 250,000 miles on it and it slips in second gear. The whole trick was to spend enough time with the piano (usually about an hour) playing everything I could think of in order to really know how it plays. Ah, life on the road!
May I ask what brand of bass guitar that is?
Hi Anthony, it’s a custom kit from Pit Bull Guitars. (It says in the description.)
Black nylon tape wounds would get it even closer ...
It’s a long time since I’ve had tapewounds on a bass, but I reckon I’ll try some again soon.
Hi, might I ask roughly what you paid for the fretless from Pit Bull? I don't see that specific model on its Web Site.
It actually cost a bit less than the regular one. Although it was a simpler kit, it I might have expected a custom order to cost more.
Preferred the violin bass TBH.
Hello Ben. There is no volume and/or tone control knob on the violin bass...right? Do you control it only with the amplifier?
That’s correct.
You have weird digital clicks in your audio. You’ll want to look into that.
Thanks Rich. It’s an electric fence on a a neighbouring property!
What kind of strings on violin-bass, flat or round ?
flats
Now can we hear the upright with gut strings for the real sound?
Great idea. Recorded direct to vinyl.
You built the violin bass from a kit? So you simply asked Pit Bull Guitars to make a neck pickup only fretless version of their standard violin bass?
Both sound beautiful, but sadly I don't have any space left for an upright.
Yes, Pit Bull Guitars do special orders like this. Maybe you have room for one....?
@@benbrinkhoff Good to know, would love to build one! My room is full of instruments and studio gear but another bass guitar should be possible..
Thanks for your quick reply! And also great playing, very musical! Forgot to mention that in my first comment :-)
@@rolandmdill Thank you! All the best!
hello, what wood is your bass made of? I'm a luthier and I want to make a fretless bass.
be impressed with its really nice sound
Hi! Here’s the kit that mine is based on. www.pitbullguitars.com/shop/guitars/pit-bull-guitars-hb-4-electric-bass-guitar-kit/ .... I think the types of wood used are less important to the sound than the way it is constructed, the flatwound strings, and my playing style.
what kind of wood do you use for the body and the fret board?
See the specs here.... www.pitbullguitars.com/shop/guitars/pit-bull-guitars-hb-4-electric-bass-guitar-kit/
@@benbrinkhoff thankyou!
What are we hearing here exactly in both examples? Is it the sound in the room, or the sound of the pickup by direct input, or a mix of both?
Good question, I should add this info to the description. It’s just recorded with my ipad. Upright is acoustic, violin bass is amplified to a similar volume level, so you are also hearing some of the acoustic sound of that instrument.
@@benbrinkhoff I love the tone of upright obviously but in a mix the violin bass would be so easier to hear and so easier to mix for an engineer. I wonder how different this particular model is from a standard Hofner bass.
is attack and release from the noter slower on the upright? also the body and tone from wood makes a big difference.. and maybe the nature of the strings being nylons on bigger guy
Yes, each note on the upright takes time to get going - quite different to a small instrument. The upright has steel strings, not nylon.
@@benbrinkhoff cool to know! I always thought they were nylon strung!
Originally, double bass strings were made from gut. Some people still use them. Most people use steel strings these days, with a smaller proportion using nylon, some “space age” materials, or composite construction....
The difference is, you're gonna hear the upright bass when it's on stage.
The little fella is amplified.....
@@benbrinkhoff My bad, didn't realize that was a pickup under your hand.
c'est quoi ces "tiks" pendant la prise de son ?
Electric fence!
@@benbrinkhoff : "clôture électrique" 🤔 ?
Oui
@@benbrinkhoff : tu habites dans un camp ?
@@okxtan2648 Haha! Dans une forêt, près d'une ferme. La clôture est pour le bétail
Deze klinkt ook goed: ruclips.net/video/EKwHhg_jKcg/видео.html
Nice!
Not the same, not as deep. But...
так себе музыкант)))