I found a product here in Australia that is also very thin and penetrates. Norglass Norseal epoxy wood treatment. Used for shoring up marine timber starting to rot. I use it for wood knife handles and on an ebony fretless bass I have. It's as loose as water.
I've converted many basses over the years but never a guitar. It was great seeing your approach. Everdure is another water thin epoxy option. I've even sprayed it. Set neck instruments are a challenge. Tapering the board can work but yeah the headstock rotation is a problem. (Basses suffer from this anyway fretted or otherwise.) Plus the side dots will look wrong. I've also replaced fretboards a few times. I met Rick Turner a while back. He was very open with sharing his knowledge. IIRC he was talking about moving to Tassie! Thanks for another great vid.
@@BeauHannamGuitars nice one mate. Bass players want a much lower action, 1.5 - 2mm typically, and with that smidge of extra relief, running out of bridge adjustment is a real possibility.
five minutes in and i suppose you know what you're doing. i just thought i'd add my feelings on the subject though. after forty years of hoping and wishing i got hold of a 1969 epiphone texan, for £800. the reason it was a bargain price was, the top had been refinished, but by hand with a brush and house-hold varnish, and it was nice'n'streaky, but the real problem was the neck was all over the place. the guy who owned it before the guy who sold it to me had made it a fretless, and clearly had no idea what he was doing, the neck was flat on the sound board, dipped down until the fifth fret, then swooped up again to the nut. he had decided fretless wasn't fun after all and got a chimpanzee to put the frets back it, so, i got my "dream guitar" at a bargain price, but i could only play the first three frets. (for the un-initiated 60's epi texans go for £3000-£6000, and more if they are signed or limited). after i had got bored with just the first three frets i took it to my local luthier, i thought it would be interesting for them to have a laugh at. they said they might be able to sort it out though and bingo! to my amazement they did. i also sanded the varnish off the front, so at the moment it is bare wood, but looks lovely, the neck and new frets are spot on perfection and i have a very desirable guitar (i have most of my guitars on my channel either to chat about or play, like and sub) so please everyone, don't ruin a perfectly good instrument by thinking you're brilliant at customizing, people who don't know what they are doing, don't know that they don't know what they are doing. if you can't buy what you want, ruin a cheapo guitar eh?
Yep- those Texan Epiphones are cool guitars. Glad you got it back together. I’d never do this to a nice vintage instrument (I should have mentioned that but sometimes the most obvious things to say are not said). Best (and easiest) way to get a guitar back to a fretted after a fretless conversion is a new fingerboard, unless it’s a Nice Brazilian rosewood board.
@@BeauHannamGuitars i only realised today that the reason the neck was all over is that whoever removed the frets had just left the gaps, so it warped because of that, then they hammered the frets back in and made it twice as bad. i also have a 66 j45 that has the wrong bridge cos someone wanted to remove the adjustable - people eh? still, i did get my dream through their ineptness!
I agree with yourself that this type of fretless guitar can benefit by being amplified. A soundhole pickup would definitely work as you may know you can buy magnetic style soundhole pickups which you can fit which are not permanent. This then gives you the opportunity to use and add effects to the sound such as reverb/echo/chorus ect which can give a whole new dimension to the sound of the fretless guitar and emphasis on the sounds when sliding notes. Also open tuning gives you some nice tones and opportunities for some experimentation.
Have you listened to the great Sarod maestro Vasant Rai, playing Darbari Kanada on a fretless guitar? It's on RUclips. As a sarod player myself, I am also looking forward to playing Indian Classical Music on a fretless guitar.
@@BeauHannamGuitars Thanks very much Beau , I have a tendency to end up with the dreaded rocking almost every time and have never made one fit without having to shim . I use the carbon paper in the mortise method . It's certainly not as easy as it looks but I'm obsessed with not using a router . I believe this is part of the soul of a hand crafted instrument . I use hand tools wherever possible . Thanks Beau, peace ✌
@@davidharris7431 I’ve only ever done neck resets (never built with a dovetail) so have only used shims. Sometimes a screw up and have to reshim and try again.
I agree with your take on fretless relief requirements. People can be needlessly funny about it sometimes. Elliptical vibration pattern of strings and so on. Cant say i understand it!
intresting video mate! I fell in love with the sound with the (semi)fretless banjo and was curios to how possible it was to take frets off and fill them with something, still dont know how possible it is but this video especially the compression fretting section might be useful one day. Cheers!
I was thinking, why not put a long slice of nice veneer on the fretboard which would increase stability and maybe keep the height of the saddle as well? Would be an alternative.
Hi- I don’t go much into replacing the fingerboard but you could veneer or skin it for sure. If I was to to that, I’d probably plane the fingerboard down to the depth of the fret slots and add more wood /new fingerboard over that - either thin veneer or thicker to pack it out more and add some saddle height. Or an entirely new fingerboard). I’ve done this on a Guitarrion to make it playable and it works really well
I'm planning to defret one of my basses but there's a couple of things I'd like to do differently:- 1) that clear CA/PU/Epoxy finish on the fretboard, is that strictly necessary? I would prefer the bare wood type finish. Is there anything I should do to it other than just bare sanding? Will I be running the risk of wearing out the veneer and slot edges in the future? Maybe a thin coat of wood putty or wood filler and sand it all down? 2) Will it look good if I use brown/red leather dye instead of black? I love the dark reddish-brown look of rosewood
You would only have to worry about gouging the bare wood if you were using round-wound strings. If you use flats (which I personally prefer) it would be a long time before there is any appreciable wear on the board. I agree that the bare wood would look/sound the best.
Here are some fretless guitar players for you guys. I'm typing in "name - work", but you guys should check out all their songs. •Erkan Oğur - Mor Dağlar •Cenk Erdogan - Kara Gider •Buzz Gravelle - Proof of Existence •Giulio Gavardi - Nardis •Sinan Cem Eroglu - Ya Evde Yoksan •Gilad Weiss - Improvisations •İlter Kurcala - Heavy Metal Solo •Guthrie Govan - Vigier Fretless
Wouldn't it be more useful to mark in between frets, in my opinion the way you did it will make it very hard on the visual part to get use to a fretless guitar.
Think about it- In order to play in tune within a selected scale, you have to “fret” the note (put your finger) where the frets used to be, on the line. Everywhere else is a micro tone between scaled notes.
I wasn't clear! If you mark with white only frets 3, 5, 7, 9, 12, 15, 17 it will be more natural to any guitarist to play because naturally the eye goes to the fret marker, anyway that's what I would do.😀@@BeauHannamGuitars
@@TreasureCoastUkuleles be it a new fretboard or conversion like this, if the geometry is correct then you don’t get buzz.- you might need more relief and/or higher action.
PS stewmac are all very well and good and do some unique tools that are useful, but they cost three times what anyone else charges and you can get equivalent tools elsewhere, personally i think stewmac take the p. shop around.
Ooooo fun! I'll definitely have to give this a try. And yes, I could hear the difference on the picks. I typically use Dunlop Jazz III, the Ultex ones are almost glass hard and give a nice treble response.
Thanks! That creates an interesting sound and increases the opportunity for pitch variation. Also, looping under the string when tying (the traditional method) flattens the string angle to the saddle. Adding 6 more holes to the bridge tie block allows tying on without looping under the string and increases the string angle to the saddle. To add the holes to an existing bridge, I use a 3/32" aircraft (long shank) drill bit. Carry on!
I don't remove the bridge. The drill bit is long enough to reach the tie-on block from the tail block area. I drill new holes next to each original hole, aiming to exit at the bottom of the trough between the tie-on block and the saddle block. 12-hole tie-on methods allow the string to go straight to the saddle without being pulled out of line by the knot. Cheers!@@BeauHannamGuitars
Gratitude for the impeccable production values in your creation of this informative and inspirational tutorial. Where can the 20 thousand black fiber sheet be purchased? I am planning on making a fretless baritone ukulele. Thanks again for the clarity and completeness of your instuction.
This video has inspired me to get an old Ovation Breadwinner into playing condition again. I removed the frets from the ebony fingerboard back in the mid 1980's, filled the slots with walnut and played it for more than a few years. But it's fallen into disrepair... needs some new electronics and a new neck plate with 4 bolts for the bolt on neck. I'm going to order the neck plate w/ bolts ASAP. Thanks for the video and for giving me some much needed incentive!!!
@@BeauHannamGuitars Hey Beau... Thank you! I'm looking forward to attempt playing fretless again after a long time. I now have an E-Bow that should make the guitar that much more interesting to play. It's even crossed my mind to install a Sustainiac or Fernandes Sustainer.... but one step at a time. Greetings from Canada.
Ah good to see your head. We used to talk a lot on F/B before the move stateside. I wasn't under this nickname then ( Crusty might ring a bell ) . I've watched a few steel string fretless players and am rather attracted to the beast. I hope america is being kind to you mate. All the best.
Some modern classicals have truss rods, you just have to look for them. They are of course absent from traditionally built classicals which had ebony rectangle stiffeners in them instead.
Hola, Philip. Sóc de Catalunya i tinc dues fantàstiques guitarres clàssiques. Una magnífica Camps, feta a Catalunya, i una deliciosa Ortega amb armrest, que és una marca d'Alemanya. Totes dues tenen truss rod perquè ja no compro ni compraria cap guitarra clàssica si no en té.
Thanks Fredericsan- I agree- the only reason some/most classical guitars don't have a truss rod is because they are copying tradition, which can be a good thing but it is very stupid to do so at the expense of making a guitar better. I've have to fix many traditional classical guitars with no truss rod )(pull the frets, sand the fingerboard) which should have been an easy truss rod tweak. @@fredericsan007
I found a product here in Australia that is also very thin and penetrates. Norglass Norseal epoxy wood treatment. Used for shoring up marine timber starting to rot. I use it for wood knife handles and on an ebony fretless bass I have. It's as loose as water.
Nice!- do Carba Tec sell that?
I've converted many basses over the years but never a guitar. It was great seeing your approach. Everdure is another water thin epoxy option. I've even sprayed it. Set neck instruments are a challenge. Tapering the board can work but yeah the headstock rotation is a problem. (Basses suffer from this anyway fretted or otherwise.) Plus the side dots will look wrong. I've also replaced fretboards a few times. I met Rick Turner a while back. He was very open with sharing his knowledge. IIRC he was talking about moving to Tassie! Thanks for another great vid.
Hi Rob- thanks. I only mentioned in passing replacing the fingerboard but I figured that might be a separate video one day :)
@@BeauHannamGuitars nice one mate. Bass players want a much lower action, 1.5 - 2mm typically, and with that smidge of extra relief, running out of bridge adjustment is a real possibility.
i dont now if i will ever play or even own a fretless guitar. but looking at someone working on their guitar is mesmerizing for me
Thank you- I too like watching “how to” videos :)
five minutes in and i suppose you know what you're doing. i just thought i'd add my feelings on the subject though. after forty years of hoping and wishing i got hold of a 1969 epiphone texan, for £800. the reason it was a bargain price was, the top had been refinished, but by hand with a brush and house-hold varnish, and it was nice'n'streaky, but the real problem was the neck was all over the place. the guy who owned it before the guy who sold it to me had made it a fretless, and clearly had no idea what he was doing, the neck was flat on the sound board, dipped down until the fifth fret, then swooped up again to the nut. he had decided fretless wasn't fun after all and got a chimpanzee to put the frets back it, so, i got my "dream guitar" at a bargain price, but i could only play the first three frets. (for the un-initiated 60's epi texans go for £3000-£6000, and more if they are signed or limited).
after i had got bored with just the first three frets i took it to my local luthier, i thought it would be interesting for them to have a laugh at. they said they might be able to sort it out though and bingo! to my amazement they did. i also sanded the varnish off the front, so at the moment it is bare wood, but looks lovely, the neck and new frets are spot on perfection and i have a very desirable guitar (i have most of my guitars on my channel either to chat about or play, like and sub)
so please everyone, don't ruin a perfectly good instrument by thinking you're brilliant at customizing, people who don't know what they are doing, don't know that they don't know what they are doing. if you can't buy what you want, ruin a cheapo guitar eh?
Yep- those Texan Epiphones are cool guitars. Glad you got it back together.
I’d never do this to a nice vintage instrument (I should have mentioned that but sometimes the most obvious things to say are not said).
Best (and easiest) way to get a guitar back to a fretted after a fretless conversion is a new fingerboard, unless it’s a Nice Brazilian rosewood board.
@@BeauHannamGuitars i only realised today that the reason the neck was all over is that whoever removed the frets had just left the gaps, so it warped because of that, then they hammered the frets back in and made it twice as bad. i also have a 66 j45 that has the wrong bridge cos someone wanted to remove the adjustable - people eh? still, i did get my dream through their ineptness!
Very informative thanks i really appreciate your videos.
Thanks- My pleasure
That was perty kool mate. 👍🎶
Thanks Stevan :)
you have summarized all what we need for fret-less ,, thank you so much sir
Thank you and my pleasure
Wow! Just listened to Buzz....Now I got to start looking for a classical I can convert to fretless.
Hahah- Buzz is so good!
I agree with yourself that this type of fretless guitar can benefit by being amplified. A soundhole pickup would definitely work as you may know you can buy magnetic style soundhole pickups which you can fit which are not permanent. This then gives you the opportunity to use and add effects to the sound such as reverb/echo/chorus ect which can give a whole new dimension to the sound of the fretless guitar and emphasis on the sounds when sliding notes. Also open tuning gives you some nice tones and opportunities for some experimentation.
Yep and yep and yep :) ❤️
Have you listened to the great Sarod maestro Vasant Rai, playing Darbari Kanada on a fretless guitar? It's on RUclips. As a sarod player myself, I am also looking forward to playing Indian Classical Music on a fretless guitar.
I don’t think I’ve listened to him. Mostly Amjad Ali Khan. A guitar with a metal fingerboard could be super cool.
Compression fretting , did it once by accident , turned out really well .
Hahahha- accident, on purpose, who can tell!!!
@@BeauHannamGuitars I have an unrelated question for you Beau , how to get a near perfect neck dovetail by hand ......
@@davidharris7431 practice and patience. Use caulk or articulating paper to see where you have to remove wood from added shims
@@BeauHannamGuitars Thanks very much Beau , I have a tendency to end up with the dreaded rocking almost every time and have never made one fit without having to shim . I use the carbon paper in the mortise method . It's certainly not as easy as it looks but I'm obsessed with not using a router . I believe this is part of the soul of a hand crafted instrument . I use hand tools wherever possible . Thanks Beau, peace ✌
@@davidharris7431 I’ve only ever done neck resets (never built with a dovetail) so have only used shims. Sometimes a screw up and have to reshim and try again.
I agree with your take on fretless relief requirements. People can be needlessly funny about it sometimes. Elliptical vibration pattern of strings and so on. Cant say i understand it!
0.010”- 0.015”- 0.020” thou relief seems to work on fretless guitars
intresting video mate! I fell in love with the sound with the (semi)fretless banjo and was curios to how possible it was to take frets off and fill them with something, still dont know how possible it is but this video especially the compression fretting section might be useful one day. Cheers!
Thanks- you can fill the slots with any hard wood- the fiber paper o used is super Compressed and harder then say mahogany.
can one use terracotta powder and ca glue? or chaga powder and ca glue?
UUUMMMmmmmm..... possibly but it would depend on how stiff the neck is. Some dust/CA can be super hard
Do you recommend an under saddle pickup or will any pickup work fine with a fretless?
Any will work - K&K type or undersaddle
I was thinking, why not put a long slice of nice veneer on the fretboard which would increase stability and maybe keep the height of the saddle as well? Would be an alternative.
Hi- I don’t go much into replacing the fingerboard but you could veneer or skin it for sure. If I was to to that, I’d probably plane the fingerboard down to the depth of the fret slots and add more wood /new fingerboard over that - either thin veneer or thicker to pack it out more and add some saddle height. Or an entirely new fingerboard). I’ve done this on a Guitarrion to make it playable and it works really well
I'm planning to defret one of my basses but there's a couple of things I'd like to do differently:-
1) that clear CA/PU/Epoxy finish on the fretboard, is that strictly necessary? I would prefer the bare wood type finish. Is there anything I should do to it other than just bare sanding? Will I be running the risk of wearing out the veneer and slot edges in the future? Maybe a thin coat of wood putty or wood filler and sand it all down?
2) Will it look good if I use brown/red leather dye instead of black? I love the dark reddish-brown look of rosewood
The epoxy/ ca isn’t necessary but it’s a good method to level the surface. The fingerboard color can be any color you want :)
You would only have to worry about gouging the bare wood if you were using round-wound strings. If you use flats (which I personally prefer) it would be a long time before there is any appreciable wear on the board. I agree that the bare wood would look/sound the best.
Here are some fretless guitar players for you guys. I'm typing in "name - work", but you guys should check out all their songs.
•Erkan Oğur - Mor Dağlar
•Cenk Erdogan - Kara Gider
•Buzz Gravelle - Proof of Existence
•Giulio Gavardi - Nardis
•Sinan Cem Eroglu - Ya Evde Yoksan
•Gilad Weiss - Improvisations
•İlter Kurcala - Heavy Metal Solo
•Guthrie Govan - Vigier Fretless
Thanks 😊
Wouldn't it be more useful to mark in between frets, in my opinion the way you did it will make it very hard on the visual part to get use to a fretless guitar.
Think about it- In order to play in tune within a selected scale, you have to “fret” the note (put your finger) where the frets used to be, on the line. Everywhere else is a micro tone between scaled notes.
I wasn't clear! If you mark with white only frets 3, 5, 7, 9, 12, 15, 17 it will be more natural to any guitarist to play because naturally the eye goes to the fret marker, anyway that's what I would do.😀@@BeauHannamGuitars
@@yoheff988you could do both 😊
What is the Tuning?
I tuned it to standard but you can tune it to whatever you want. I’m sure there are many tunings that make, say, playing “middle easterny” easier.
@@BeauHannamGuitarsThanks for the reply. Check Simon Shaheen, I think you gonna like it ❣️ did you ever considered playing the Oud?
Did you ever considered playing the Oud? Check Simon Shaheen, I think you're gonna like it. Thanks for the reply ❤
Wish i could play the oud- I have one but dont get it out much. I check out Simon Shaheen- thanks :) @@Nour01
Can you do this with tenor ukuleles ? or just build fret less ukuleles from the start ?
You can do it with anything fretted
Interesting ! Does it make the set up easier ? I still have problems with dead strings and buzz @@BeauHannamGuitars
@@TreasureCoastUkuleles be it a new fretboard or conversion like this, if the geometry is correct then you don’t get buzz.- you might need more relief and/or higher action.
Thanks. I think I need to explore this @@BeauHannamGuitars
Like being a dentist.
:)
PS stewmac are all very well and good and do some unique tools that are useful, but they cost three times what anyone else charges and you can get equivalent tools elsewhere, personally i think stewmac take the p. shop around.
SM have a lifetime warranty on their tools.
Ooooo fun! I'll definitely have to give this a try. And yes, I could hear the difference on the picks. I typically use Dunlop Jazz III, the Ultex ones are almost glass hard and give a nice treble response.
I like the Jazz III picks, small and hard :)
@@BeauHannamGuitars he he hard
Thanks! That creates an interesting sound and increases the opportunity for pitch variation. Also, looping under the string when tying (the traditional method) flattens the string angle to the saddle. Adding 6 more holes to the bridge tie block allows tying on without looping under the string and increases the string angle to the saddle. To add the holes to an existing bridge, I use a 3/32" aircraft (long shank) drill bit. Carry on!
Thanks- yer of if I take off the bridge I consider adding more holes for that reason. It’s a good trick to gain 1/32
I don't remove the bridge. The drill bit is long enough to reach the tie-on block from the tail block area. I drill new holes next to each original hole, aiming to exit at the bottom of the trough between the tie-on block and the saddle block. 12-hole tie-on methods allow the string to go straight to the saddle without being pulled out of line by the knot. Cheers!@@BeauHannamGuitars
@@scottreeves1226 I’ve done it that way too, but prefer not too
Great information, thank you!
My pleasure
Gratitude for the impeccable production values in your creation of this informative and inspirational tutorial. Where can the 20 thousand black fiber sheet be purchased? I am planning on making a fretless baritone ukulele. Thanks again for the clarity and completeness of your instuction.
Thanks and my pleasure. LMI used to
Sell it but now RCTonewoods is the best place to get it :)
Enjoyable.
Thanks
This video has inspired me to get an old Ovation Breadwinner into playing condition again. I removed the frets from the ebony fingerboard back in the mid 1980's, filled the slots with walnut and played it for more than a few years. But it's fallen into disrepair... needs some new electronics and a new neck plate with 4 bolts for the bolt on neck. I'm going to order the neck plate w/ bolts ASAP. Thanks for the video and for giving me some much needed incentive!!!
Thanks so much for saying that Glen- if one of my videos can inspire someone to get an old guitar going again it makes me happy :)
@@BeauHannamGuitars
Hey Beau... Thank you! I'm looking forward to attempt playing fretless again after a long time. I now have an E-Bow that should make the guitar that much more interesting to play. It's even crossed my mind to install a Sustainiac or Fernandes Sustainer.... but one step at a time. Greetings from Canada.
@@glennmichaelthompson4112 an ebow would be super cool!!!!!!
Thank you for this video, this is very helpful 😊
My pleasure
Very attractive Beau unfortunately too many guitars to play already (C Tuning, Baritone, 12 Strings, Resonators, Electric...)
Hahahha- I know the feeling!
Ah good to see your head. We used to talk a lot on F/B before the move stateside. I wasn't under this nickname then ( Crusty might ring a bell ) . I've watched a few steel string fretless players and am rather attracted to the beast. I hope america is being kind to you mate. All the best.
Thanks Rodney- give fretless a chance! good to see you
I've never yet come aross a clsssical guitar with a truss rod in over 50 yrs of playing !!!! So I'm not sure if this guy is as good as he thinks
Some modern classicals have truss rods, you just have to look for them. They are of course absent from traditionally built classicals which had ebony rectangle stiffeners in them instead.
Hola, Philip.
Sóc de Catalunya i tinc dues fantàstiques guitarres clàssiques.
Una magnífica Camps, feta a Catalunya, i una deliciosa Ortega amb armrest, que és una marca d'Alemanya.
Totes dues tenen truss rod perquè ja no compro ni compraria cap guitarra clàssica si no en té.
Thanks Fredericsan- I agree- the only reason some/most classical guitars don't have a truss rod is because they are copying tradition, which can be a good thing but it is very stupid to do so at the expense of making a guitar better. I've have to fix many traditional classical guitars with no truss rod )(pull the frets, sand the fingerboard) which should have been an easy truss rod tweak.
@@fredericsan007
"No Fret" Buzz !
Hahahha
Id use bondo
Amazing!, thanks for sharing your experience and knowledge of the fretboard mod!🥹
Thanks- and my pleasure :)