I liked how all three perspectives looked like they were quietly listening when it wasn't their turn to talk. Really sold the idea that we were watching three separate people with three different impressions of the series. Well done!
Absolutely banger video. Best and most level-headed coverage of this series that I've seen. I somehow found myself agreeing almost completely with all three perspectives.
I never 'gush' in my comments, but a couple of minutes in, your three selves carrying on a conversation from 3 POV's was really impressing me, in its cohesiveness, its 'give and take', its tone, content, and finally, its effect. Excellent editing. Wonderful to feel I was a fly on the wall taking in a real conversation. Before pressing "Comment", ...I couldn't help noticing other viewers pointing out the same thing... 🙂 Truly well done!!!
The Three Body Problem with a Discussion Between Three Bodies lmao, good one Moid. Not sure everyone got the joke but brilliant execution as always mate
Just finished The Dark Forest last week. Really didn't care for 'main character falls in love with woman he imagines; later UN finds woman matching his description of her; they cohabitate and have a kid" as a plot device.
That whole thing was so weird and offputting. I though it was probably trying to show what would likely happen if any normal person was given unlimited resources, but the wallfacer plot device gives you carte blanche to be like "that was all part of his plan" which I don't love. I did enjoy the series overall, but the first one was by far the weakest for me, and that whole bit was a significant contributor to that! The prose, too.
@@jaspertandy Can someone explain why three body problem gets so much flack for prose, characters and sexism, but Asimov's and Arthur C Clarke's novels which are arguably much, much worse in those aspects (and ideas as well) get a pass? The protagonist in Rendezvous with Rama has like 3 wives and it's portrayed as normal for any American man of 2200's
the part of "... falls in love with woman he imagine" shows Lougi's talent. He imagined a girlfriend, and imagined that he falls in love with her, He is capable of being a wallfacer to close off himself from the outside world to devise a plan, deceive everyone including San-Ti, and execute it well.
@@user-ly2ll5od1rI often compare these books to Foundation where the ideas are peak and characters kinda exist to move stuff along. It works for the scope but it isn't perfect
@@t3amtomahawk maybe it was different for the time, but I didn't think there were any interesting ideas in foundation at all. To add on top of that - I at least remember some names and some character traits from 3 body trilogy. I only remember the Mule from foundation.
I'm largely with Red Moid here. I'm mostly frustrated with the books where there's a great plot in here but it's let down at almost every turn with how Liu decides to pace things, to depict how decisions are made and actions are taken. There's a lot I really enjoyed in the books - Zhang Behai's arc in Dark Forest, and the crew of Blue Space investigating the weird dimensional pockets in Death's End stand out - but in those sections the characters feel like they have agency and drive, while for most of the books it feels like the characters are there to bear witness to the next thing.
Yet he didn't want to just come out And hate it, he gave it a chance but you can tell he didn't love any of these books. I think it's geared toward less experienced sci-fi enthusiasts
The wallfacers lacked agency? The lack of any traditional hero's journey (although I guess Luoji gets pretty close in the end) was somerhing I liked about the series. The books get to a cosmic scale that mostly dwarfs not only human agency but the agency of humanity. I wouldn't expect the actions of people to make that much of a difference against these kinds of forces except in special corcimstaces of which Lou gave us several.
Top notch video once again. What a crackingly unique way to review a book. Pro's and con's delivered perfectly. This book has been on my TBR for a while and you have offered up plenty to consider which probably will aid my reading of this book to be that much more enjoyable. Excellent stuff.
Great way to review it. I get your points because I also struggled with the style, but in the end the scale of the story and the multitude of ideas just did it for me.
Missed ya Moid. I'm gonna drop my comment before I watch, just to say this looks like a great idea of a topic to handle. Thanks, And keep doing what ever makes you happy. Have a GREAT new year!
very original way to introduce readers to this book. it's not objective, it's not the only one review, the absolute and definitive one. it's several voices, several subjectivities, it's thought-provoking. it's definitely smart. and it's actually a good way to review books in general, it's kind of humble to play different variations. and the gimmick is quite cool and entertaining. maybe you can make more out of the characters and push them a little bit further.
Really good video! Acknowleding the really cool ideas weighted down by the weak characters which adds a lot of fat that could be cut down makes this probably the best review I've seen on the series. Also, please do this angel/devil dynamic again, i really enjoy it. The angel being very sincere followed by the devil going "you're wrong. It's shit. No i will not elaborate" is very funny.
I thought the style had some humor to it that most people missed. This is after 100 pages long setpiece of alien technology completely obliterating the solar system in the final book, after all that, this paragraph literally made me laugh out loud at work while I was reading: "They screamed, they cried and here came the final voice of the human race from the solar system: " Aaaaaaaaaaa" Also it's really weird how westerners completely forgive/ignore the dryness of Arthur C clarke's or Asimov's characters and writing style, yet Liu Cixin's style which is at least 50% more interesting gets a lot of flack from the same readers who ignore the same (let's be real: worse) problems of western authors. Just really really weird how that is, sure it has nothing to do with [REDACTED]? 🤔
My biggest critique of the series is that every now and then while reading you will run into what I can only describe as a metaphorically patch of literary quick sand that you cant back out of and have to trudge though to get to the other side. These patches aren't very big or deep but do take away from the experience of reading the books. And despite there only being like a hand full of these bogs, the first and arguably largest one just so happens to be the beginning of the first book. 😅
I love this, the bouncing back and forth between the different ideas and criticism of the good point about the book and the negative. I felt the same way, it was not the smoothest or the most well written but some of the ideas in here are mind boggling. Well worth your time imo.
Brilliant video! I don't recall how I was introduced to Three Body - but I was lucky. I struggled through the first book as well. I came in with zero knowledge of the Chinese revolution. I struggled with the last name first thing and had to flip back to remember which characters were which. However, I did have a strong amateur knowledge of astronomy and physics. That helped a lot. When you are ready to read it again I highly suggest the audiobook. In that format, the characters feel more fleshed out and focused. Having read the book prior to the listen, I was able to relax on the ideas, being familiar already, and catch a lot of the nuance and humor in the character interactions.
The 3BP is absolutely one of the worst SF reads ever written. It's not just sub-dimensional characters, it's reactions and motivations that are plainly wrong or senseless. All that stupid pointless exposition that people think is science. There is no way I'm wasting any more time on the remaining books. It's been awhile since I read it and I was utterly dismayed at the good reviews that plastered YT. Your half hearted recommendation errs on the positive side, like people should definitely give it a try and determine for themselves. That can be said about any book, however I did enjoy your video review and the effort you put into it.
I’ve been putting these books off for sooo fracking long. But let me say this, Moid, I think this is your best video yet. Very well executed, and funny. Keep it up.👍
I enjoyed all three books, I think I agree with both the praise and the criticism. There's a lot bad about the books, but there's also a host of interesting plot lines and ideas that I still think about years later. There's not many series that can say that.
This was such a great way of pointing out what people love and hate about the series. For me, I am so excited you decided to continue. I was k e of the people proselytizing for you to keep going to book 2.
I bought the trilogy because of the hype and after reading book number 1 and starting reading the Dark Forest I am shocked how low the quality of the writing is... You tell me this won a Hugo Award ?!?!?! Good ideas doesn't automatically create a great book
People like Brandon Sanderson (including me) and his prose is even worse. It's just a standard matter of fact writing style, it doesn't try to be flowery or poetic, the author just states what is happening in a very objective way. Liu Cixin himself said that his books are a futile attempt at replicating Arthur C Clarke's space odyssey, he still writes better than Arthur ever did imo. Or Asimov especially.
if Stephenson and Gibson gets jerked off constantly for being the fathers of cyberpunk and sci fi while having constant techno babble tirades with characters that don't even talk like real people.
That was a very cool video! I really enjoyed the conversation with yourself. I have not read the 3-body problem or any of the other books. I did watch the show, it was meh, but I don't judge a book by a TV show. I am new to the channel, so I have to ask, why is one of you strapped up in the video? Is this something you do often? Not that I mind AT ALL, as an American I am all for it in fact :) Sincerely though very good video, I am tempted to read the book series at some point, I just have so much other stuff on my read list, but I am sure I will get to it eventually. I do have to say I was a little surprised by the Cultural revolution Chinese connection part (at least that I saw in the show which is likely not the book all that much)
"It's good because I haven't read anything else" isn't a good metric as to why a book is "good." There are maybe 3-4 good short stories within the trilogy and those 4 interesting concepts aren't melded together well in the end. And red was right about the Chinese money driving the popularity. I forced myself through the 3 books just to shut up my friends when I was to finally tell him it's shit.
Truly I don't believe that the Dark Forest would hold up across all spacetime, but my biggest plot criticism has to be the very existence and outcome of the Wallfacers. I'll keep this vague for those not in the know, but why wouldn't they keep trying to kill him? They only try twice and that felt unrealistically minimal compared to the scale of all the other narrative choices.
I just recently felt the itch to read(listen) to these again, but I definitely looked back with rose tinted glasses. If I could summarize how I feel about TBP, it would be "this series and plot is better experienced summarized and analyzed by a youtube commentator than actually read"
Congratulations on giving the viewer all possible outcomes after reading this series and showing us that all opinions - good, mediocre or bad - are valid depending on the reader! I've seen so many videos saying the series is worth reading or don't bother - but nothing that gives the true potential outcome of spending your time investing into this series! Well done!! Having said that...I just bought the first book and have decided I'd like to find out which type of reader of this series that I am. Thanks for preparing me for the journey - whichever way it turns out! Stay safe!
great format for this book. i liked the first.. the ideas presented.. the dark forest reveal.. but man the characters were brutal. cheng xin was intolerable to me and thoroughly ruined the last 2 books for me.. edit: 13:42... very VERY good point. this is really one of those things were u and 3 friends with basically the same exact tastes in books could all walk away in one of the 3 camps u presented here in some form. great review!
The more time that passes since finishing this trilogy, the more I'm in the indifferent camp. The writing was so poor, I struggled through this. And I wasn't blown away by the ideas. "Small series of tremors" is right.
I slogged my way through the trilogy (took me four months) because of Moid's philosophy: "Read it! You can't have a proper opinion if you haven't read it". And I think people should give it a try... you might like it. TBP fans should know that Netflix is making a series on it.
I hope that the Netflix series will be good (I am not very optimistic). I saw a chinese adaptation of the first book : it's easy to adapt the plot, but more difficult to adapt the idea, or the sense to be a "lucky witness".
I really appreciated this review. By summoning multiple versions of you from different quantum realities, you ultimately made it about the book and not the reviewer, which is exactly how it should be. Great job.
I might get more out of this series after doing some research into the “three-body” hypothesis, which is a real thing. I had no idea about it going into the book.
I was never a reader until my twenties then someone passed me the wasp factory, then my favourite book the bridge and then started reading the culture books, thirty years on and not reading anything for a long time I picked up the three body problem and it blew my mind with its ideas, sure it may have been written before but this was my first taste of big concepts and I followed with the series leading me back into reading and sci fi, I loved the books
Love the way you do your videos Moid, a fresh way of breaking down how we sometimes feel pulled in different directions by a book. I haven't read these books yet, but somehow it feels to me like a similarly divisive response to 1Q84, a book I felt was compellingly and brilliantly written but let down by its plot.
One thing that on multiple occasions brought me out of the books (particularly Dark Forest), in this "hard" science fiction series, was Cixin Liu's utter lack of understanding of orbital dynamics, e.g. if one fires a bullet in orbit it will NOT proceed in a straight line over kilometers of distance--it will go into it's own orbit. Also, objects do not just hover at the anchor point of a space elevator. They're moving too fast to be in a circular orbit at that location and will just fly off into a higher
The bullet will be in orbit yes, but so are the shooter and the target. The whole system is in the same frame of reference. From their perspective it's as if it went in a more or less straight line no?
I loved the style of this video. I also felt totally torn this way. It has so many cool ideas, but the writing it's one of the only books I've read where the writing was bad enough for it to be distracting.
Very thankful for this video. I've been a little bemused by all the love for this and now I think I understand it. The love is not unwarranted, but these books are not for me.
I also disliked the first book for the same reasons. I wooden characters, bad dialogue and exposition...ugh. I could barely stand it and I almost didn't make it through it. As bad as the first book was, I have absolutely zero desire to pick up the second book, especially since I'd have to re-read the first book to remember the story.
It was (imo) an interesting insight into the authors' culture. The way the book is written, how men and women are portrayed, how the characters' agency (or lack thereof) is portrayed, the thorough paranoia that the characters go through... IMO that is very revealing and a way to learn of a *completely* different mindset/worldview than mine. That's what helped me get through it, because, yes, this series is a difficult one to read through even though the ideas are interesting.
No i think that's just human, every culture that has come into contact with a less advanced culture has either wiped them out or enslaved them. The only real exception that i know of is the Sentinels of North Sentinel Island. We've left them alone. But even that doesn't work because we HAVEN'T left them alone, and even if we do now they've attacked anyone who comes close themselves. RoEP shows how the chain of suspicion can cause even "peaceful" cultures to act aggressively by default.
It was an interesting read for me . First book is a cool (and sometimes pretty terrifying ) exploration of first contact , second book is a nice exploration of one of the Fermi Paradox solutions , third book went batshit insane with the ideas. I definitely think that the time invested was worth it , however people comparing the prose and world building to Banks and Herbert are IMHO delusional . Great video Moid(s) ! .
@@WeWereTheStorm no thats Peter watts, i keep hearing people constantly bash him, perhaps along side Charles Stross for having juvenile prose or nonsensical scatter brained plots. meanwhile people like gibson or Stephenson loops you with nonsensical techno babble and big words masking their mediocre prose. overrated to no end
i think the writing suffers from a loss in translation. The big idea in this series tries to answer the question... Where are all the aliens? I suspect the Cixin Liu's answer to the question is very Chinese. China has had terrible relations with just about everyone throughout history. The mongols, the Japanese, Koreans, all of Europe and the USA too. We want to "Go Boldly Where No One Has Gone Before." Chinese would rather we just leave them alone. This is manifested in Dark Forest Theory. Better to huddle in the cold and dark forest rather than attract malevolent intention by lighting a warming fire. Seems very Chinese to me based on what I know of their history.
nothing at all is lost in translation. ken lui is by far the best you could want and a better scifi writer himself. i didnt really get snything chinese out of it other than the robotic characters that you care little to nothing about and are expendable … to the story of course but irl to the fascist chinese government.
It is worth noting that "Chinese" is a flexible meaning. Most popularly, it refers to the Han Chinese, who were the conglomeration of various competing tribes, the Huaxia, along the Yellow and Yangtse rivers, though not the oldest culture. China pretends these wars and expansions were not imperial in nature, but when one takes over another and the tribe flees? It is a series of conquests. Modern China ignores the distinctions, but ancient Chinese historian like Sima Qian wrote of the differences as a 'chasm' between them and the not-them Chinese, the Hua-Yi conflict--which itself ignored the different tribes that made up the Han that existed prior. Unified rule is what allowed anti-warlord Confucian philosophy to arise and the ideal of civilized behavior (if you behaved like Han and recognized the Emperor as supreme). Because of this prejudice, in 350 CE, three of the five recognized Chinese barbarian groups were targeted in the Wie-Jie genocide, led by usurper Emperor Ran Min. Various near Han Chinese took on and competed over the identity of Chinese, sinicisation, some for the purpose of ruling. There was a recognition of different but equal of dynasties. Arguments went back and forth, one emperor argued in favor of equality, another recalled all manuscripts because he thought they made the government look bad, etc. The idea of culture over race turned plain racist in the late 19th century, but would end most recently with a declaration that all groups inside China were Chinese, rather than barbarian. How does this apply to the Dark Forest theory? In Chinese history, they were the threat in the forest until they sought peace because they won. This is how the cycle goes.
bullshit, americans went to war with literally everyone of their neighbors and have been at war for their entire existence baring 13 years. china has terrible relationships? if china was like america there would be NO terrible relationships because china would have wiped all their neighbors out or eradicated them. also china had practically no external enemies for most of its history, japan and korea were literally tributary states to china for most of its time and russia didn't even exist proper out of kievan rus. there was only the mongols which got sinicised and the romans which they had trade with as with the persians
Never mind the SF, you are blowing my mind here MOID! I am in the camp of been-reading-Science-Fiction-for-50+-years and wondered what all the fuss was about when I read this series and the writing was weird, even tedious. I have re-read 3 body but not the other two yet because of the hype and yes I liked it better the second time.
The first book is quite nice. It's very mysterious and if you didn't read anything about it at all, you kinda keep guessing what the hell is causing the deaths and the numbers. The Dark Forest was great for its second half and the solution being a sociological idea, rather than a hard sci-fi or warfare angle. Book three was good because of the massive amount of ideas and the vast scale of it all. However, all three books have the same issues. Poor characterization, clunky exposition and wishy-washy sociology in order to support the negative view of social interactions the author was going for. Overall, I agree with Moid's statement. It's good in the moment but it doesn't stay with you all that much. It's a good series that I have no desire to read again.
Yeah, I’m on team red. Was given the first book a couple of years back by a friend and caught some of the hype. I was really interested in the Chinese angle as well. Normally I’m a pretty forgiving reader and I’m happy to have good elements of characterisation, plot, ideas and pacing compensate for weaker ones. But man, this was so poorly written. Non of the characters spoke or behaved like real people. The pacing was terrible, the plotting nonsensical and frankly I found the ideas mundane and stuff that has been done so much better elsewhere. I struggled all the way to the end, convinced that I must be missing something or that it was about to get better, but no. It really made me question where all the hype was coming from. I find it interesting to hear your different takes and am almost tempted to give it another shot, but I don’t think I can get over how bad that first book was…
I also found the Three Body Problem to slow and I thought of an advanced civilization being able to develop under those conditions to far fetched. Recently I saw the TV adaptation of this book and made me enjoy it more to the point that almost 10 years later I read the last two in the series back to back. The second I think by far was the best and the second was almost depressing making humanity so naive it kept destroying itself which again was a bit to unbelievable but still overall enjoyable.
I really liked the Three Body Problem trilogy! Now that I've watched your debate I'm feeling like reading it again, thanks! And by the way, at around 7.05 in your video you are doing a quite good resemblance of Nicola Walker :)
I don't think it's a loss in translation or cultural differences issue with the book. I've read other Chinese authors (mostly ordinary literary fiction not SF) that have had none of the problems I had with the Three Body Problem series. The writing improves somewhat over the 3 books but the major structural and character issues couldn't be fixed by the author, he's an imaginative guy but not the best writer in the world and to the books credit it mostly succeeds despite it's inherent flaws. It's far from a perfect book series that some reviewers I've seen have painted it as and Moids review is very fair with both praise and criticism and the Devil and Angel voices is a highly imaginative way to highlight that contradiction without seeming to be overly negative or positive. Hopefully now Moid is into the new house and getting settled his creative juices go into overdrive.
I got through the first and DNF'd the second. The second book's first act is garbage. I honestly don't care if it gets great later. I've got plenty of excellent sci-fi to read that doesn't take a book and a half or more to get interesting.
I lived in Azië for some time and from that periode got some immersion in the culture. The way of being, thinking, decision making etc . The characters felt very familiar to me . The author is Chinese. Different culture that the West . Maybe that has an influence .
To the people who told you to read the whole trilogy before passing judgment, books in a trilogy/series still need to stand on their own. If the first book is not good, why would someone want to read more from that same author before passing judgment? The book still needs to be a good book and shouldn't get a pass just because it's part of a trilogy. The first book being the weakest is not a good sign because that's supposed to introduce you to the story and get you hooked. If it's boring or bad, then it failed at its job.
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
I don't know how you managed to give three perspectives of a trilogy and still not really spoil any of it for potential readers. Excellent video Moid.
Thanks Bob
Definite agreement, the things was a treat!
Moid is the three body problem.
I liked how all three perspectives looked like they were quietly listening when it wasn't their turn to talk. Really sold the idea that we were watching three separate people with three different impressions of the series. Well done!
Absolutely banger video. Best and most level-headed coverage of this series that I've seen. I somehow found myself agreeing almost completely with all three perspectives.
what a coincidence that the best take is the one you agree with. not to attack you but a reminder that we should always watch our biases
I never 'gush' in my comments, but a couple of minutes in, your three selves carrying on a conversation from 3 POV's was really impressing me, in its cohesiveness, its 'give and take', its tone, content, and finally, its effect. Excellent editing. Wonderful to feel I was a fly on the wall taking in a real conversation. Before pressing "Comment",
...I couldn't help noticing other viewers pointing out the same thing...
🙂 Truly well done!!!
Thank You
The three bodies giving their differing views of the three body trilogy is simply put, brilliant!
The videography is once again innovative. Moid, you just never run out of good ideas. Keep up the good work!
I loved the originality of this review format. Thanks Moid.
The Three Body Problem with a Discussion Between Three Bodies lmao, good one Moid. Not sure everyone got the joke but brilliant execution as always mate
I feel silly for not seeing this lol.
I wrote before I noticed others saying the same sort of thing I did, have to agree, very engaging video!
Just finished The Dark Forest last week. Really didn't care for 'main character falls in love with woman he imagines; later UN finds woman matching his description of her; they cohabitate and have a kid" as a plot device.
That whole thing was so weird and offputting. I though it was probably trying to show what would likely happen if any normal person was given unlimited resources, but the wallfacer plot device gives you carte blanche to be like "that was all part of his plan" which I don't love. I did enjoy the series overall, but the first one was by far the weakest for me, and that whole bit was a significant contributor to that! The prose, too.
@@jaspertandy Can someone explain why three body problem gets so much flack for prose, characters and sexism, but Asimov's and Arthur C Clarke's novels which are arguably much, much worse in those aspects (and ideas as well) get a pass? The protagonist in Rendezvous with Rama has like 3 wives and it's portrayed as normal for any American man of 2200's
the part of "... falls in love with woman he imagine" shows Lougi's talent. He imagined a girlfriend, and imagined that he falls in love with her, He is capable of being a wallfacer to close off himself from the outside world to devise a plan, deceive everyone including San-Ti, and execute it well.
@@user-ly2ll5od1rI often compare these books to Foundation where the ideas are peak and characters kinda exist to move stuff along.
It works for the scope but it isn't perfect
@@t3amtomahawk maybe it was different for the time, but I didn't think there were any interesting ideas in foundation at all. To add on top of that - I at least remember some names and some character traits from 3 body trilogy. I only remember the Mule from foundation.
I'm largely with Red Moid here. I'm mostly frustrated with the books where there's a great plot in here but it's let down at almost every turn with how Liu decides to pace things, to depict how decisions are made and actions are taken. There's a lot I really enjoyed in the books - Zhang Behai's arc in Dark Forest, and the crew of Blue Space investigating the weird dimensional pockets in Death's End stand out - but in those sections the characters feel like they have agency and drive, while for most of the books it feels like the characters are there to bear witness to the next thing.
Same. The Three Body Problem was good, The Dark Forest was okay (had some interesting ideas but it was erratic pacing wise.) Death’s End was just bad.
100% agree
Yet he didn't want to just come out And hate it, he gave it a chance but you can tell he didn't love any of these books. I think it's geared toward less experienced sci-fi enthusiasts
The wallfacers lacked agency? The lack of any traditional hero's journey (although I guess Luoji gets pretty close in the end) was somerhing I liked about the series. The books get to a cosmic scale that mostly dwarfs not only human agency but the agency of humanity. I wouldn't expect the actions of people to make that much of a difference against these kinds of forces except in special corcimstaces of which Lou gave us several.
Top notch video once again. What a crackingly unique way to review a book. Pro's and con's delivered perfectly. This book has been on my TBR for a while and you have offered up plenty to consider which probably will aid my reading of this book to be that much more enjoyable. Excellent stuff.
I loved the way you split this video up with different view points Moid. Great video! The trilogy is still a TBR for me but will get to it eventually.
Great way to review it. I get your points because I also struggled with the style, but in the end the scale of the story and the multitude of ideas just did it for me.
Missed ya Moid. I'm gonna drop my comment before I watch, just to say this looks like a great idea of a topic to handle. Thanks, And keep doing what ever makes you happy.
Have a GREAT new year!
Damn this is such a fun format to have three experiences mix into one towards the end! well done on a great discussion
very original way to introduce readers to this book.
it's not objective, it's not the only one review, the absolute and definitive one.
it's several voices, several subjectivities, it's thought-provoking.
it's definitely smart. and it's actually a good way to review books in general, it's kind of humble to play different variations.
and the gimmick is quite cool and entertaining. maybe you can make more out of the characters and push them a little bit further.
Really good video! Acknowleding the really cool ideas weighted down by the weak characters which adds a lot of fat that could be cut down makes this probably the best review I've seen on the series.
Also, please do this angel/devil dynamic again, i really enjoy it. The angel being very sincere followed by the devil going "you're wrong. It's shit. No i will not elaborate" is very funny.
I thought the style had some humor to it that most people missed.
This is after 100 pages long setpiece of alien technology completely obliterating the solar system in the final book, after all that, this paragraph literally made me laugh out loud at work while I was reading:
"They screamed, they cried and here came the final voice of the human race from the solar system:
" Aaaaaaaaaaa"
Also it's really weird how westerners completely forgive/ignore the dryness of Arthur C clarke's or Asimov's characters and writing style, yet Liu Cixin's style which is at least 50% more interesting gets a lot of flack from the same readers who ignore the same (let's be real: worse) problems of western authors. Just really really weird how that is, sure it has nothing to do with [REDACTED]? 🤔
My biggest critique of the series is that every now and then while reading you will run into what I can only describe as a metaphorically patch of literary quick sand that you cant back out of and have to trudge though to get to the other side. These patches aren't very big or deep but do take away from the experience of reading the books. And despite there only being like a hand full of these bogs, the first and arguably largest one just so happens to be the beginning of the first book. 😅
I couldn't finish it. Hated it. Fantastic review - not enough to have me try it again, though.
BTW, you all settled in after the move?
I love this, the bouncing back and forth between the different ideas and criticism of the good point about the book and the negative. I felt the same way, it was not the smoothest or the most well written but some of the ideas in here are mind boggling. Well worth your time imo.
Brilliant video! I don't recall how I was introduced to Three Body - but I was lucky. I struggled through the first book as well. I came in with zero knowledge of the Chinese revolution. I struggled with the last name first thing and had to flip back to remember which characters were which. However, I did have a strong amateur knowledge of astronomy and physics. That helped a lot. When you are ready to read it again I highly suggest the audiobook. In that format, the characters feel more fleshed out and focused. Having read the book prior to the listen, I was able to relax on the ideas, being familiar already, and catch a lot of the nuance and humor in the character interactions.
The 3BP is absolutely one of the worst SF reads ever written.
It's not just sub-dimensional characters, it's reactions and motivations that are plainly wrong or senseless.
All that stupid pointless exposition that people think is science. There is no way I'm wasting any more time on the remaining books.
It's been awhile since I read it and I was utterly dismayed at the good reviews that plastered YT.
Your half hearted recommendation errs on the positive side, like people should definitely give it a try and determine for themselves.
That can be said about any book, however I did enjoy your video review and the effort you put into it.
Slogged and slugged through the first one, was under-impressed. Should I try again? Help me Holy Trinity!
I’ve been putting these books off for sooo fracking long. But let me say this, Moid, I think this is your best video yet. Very well executed, and funny. Keep it up.👍
There are so many classic SF masterpieces that I haven't read. By the time I get to this series I'll be old and jaded
I enjoyed all three books, I think I agree with both the praise and the criticism. There's a lot bad about the books, but there's also a host of interesting plot lines and ideas that I still think about years later. There's not many series that can say that.
I really enjoyed doing the monthly readalong and talking about the book with folks on the discord. Looking forward to the next few!
i've missed you!-thanks.
Hey that was me! Haha, great video Moid. I always enjoy the way you talk about books
Fame at last, Jimmy
@@MediaDeathCult My mother is going to be so proud
The Three Body Problem reviewed by The Three Body Moid... classic
Good to see that you are back again, Moid!
You're an artist, Moid.
Thank you Jared
Wow, great review. Loved the three way tussle!
I love this video and concept - brilliant!!
Cool format 🙏
Woop woop. Great vid moid. Keep em coming!
Brilliantly done. Cheers.
This was such a great way of pointing out what people love and hate about the series. For me, I am so excited you decided to continue. I was k e of the people proselytizing for you to keep going to book 2.
I bought the trilogy because of the hype and after reading book number 1 and starting reading the Dark Forest I am shocked how low the quality of the writing is... You tell me this won a Hugo Award ?!?!?! Good ideas doesn't automatically create a great book
People like Brandon Sanderson (including me) and his prose is even worse. It's just a standard matter of fact writing style, it doesn't try to be flowery or poetic, the author just states what is happening in a very objective way. Liu Cixin himself said that his books are a futile attempt at replicating Arthur C Clarke's space odyssey, he still writes better than Arthur ever did imo. Or Asimov especially.
if Stephenson and Gibson gets jerked off constantly for being the fathers of cyberpunk and sci fi while having constant techno babble tirades with characters that don't even talk like real people.
I noped out about 60% into the first book.
That was a very cool video! I really enjoyed the conversation with yourself. I have not read the 3-body problem or any of the other books. I did watch the show, it was meh, but I don't judge a book by a TV show. I am new to the channel, so I have to ask, why is one of you strapped up in the video? Is this something you do often? Not that I mind AT ALL, as an American I am all for it in fact :) Sincerely though very good video, I am tempted to read the book series at some point, I just have so much other stuff on my read list, but I am sure I will get to it eventually. I do have to say I was a little surprised by the Cultural revolution Chinese connection part (at least that I saw in the show which is likely not the book all that much)
"More in the moment than in retrospect" is such a perfect description that I'm gonna have to steal it immediately!
I'm flattered
I agree....the books didn't deliver in the end....and it took a long, twisting way to not get there.
The books did deliver
Anyone expecting humanity to survive was delusional
Although liu could've made cheng xin less annoying
"It's good because I haven't read anything else" isn't a good metric as to why a book is "good." There are maybe 3-4 good short stories within the trilogy and those 4 interesting concepts aren't melded together well in the end. And red was right about the Chinese money driving the popularity. I forced myself through the 3 books just to shut up my friends when I was to finally tell him it's shit.
Super appreciate the honest perspective
Truly I don't believe that the Dark Forest would hold up across all spacetime, but my biggest plot criticism has to be the very existence and outcome of the Wallfacers. I'll keep this vague for those not in the know, but why wouldn't they keep trying to kill him? They only try twice and that felt unrealistically minimal compared to the scale of all the other narrative choices.
I generally stay away from translated books; reading The Three Body Problem has made me stay away from books that have been censored.
I'm with Red Moid regarding this series, by the way. (Also, I hate trilogies as a default)
I just recently felt the itch to read(listen) to these again, but I definitely looked back with rose tinted glasses. If I could summarize how I feel about TBP, it would be "this series and plot is better experienced summarized and analyzed by a youtube commentator than actually read"
I'll take that as a compliment, thank you
Congratulations on giving the viewer all possible outcomes after reading this series and showing us that all opinions - good, mediocre or bad - are valid depending on the reader! I've seen so many videos saying the series is worth reading or don't bother - but nothing that gives the true potential outcome of spending your time investing into this series! Well done!! Having said that...I just bought the first book and have decided I'd like to find out which type of reader of this series that I am. Thanks for preparing me for the journey - whichever way it turns out! Stay safe!
I've never read these books but really enjoy this video, this format is super fun!
Outstanding review , you kill me !
great format for this book. i liked the first.. the ideas presented.. the dark forest reveal.. but man the characters were brutal.
cheng xin was intolerable to me and thoroughly ruined the last 2 books for me..
edit: 13:42... very VERY good point. this is really one of those things were u and 3 friends with basically the same exact tastes in books could all walk away in one of the 3 camps u presented here in some form. great review!
The more time that passes since finishing this trilogy, the more I'm in the indifferent camp. The writing was so poor, I struggled through this. And I wasn't blown away by the ideas. "Small series of tremors" is right.
I slogged my way through the trilogy (took me four months) because of Moid's philosophy: "Read it! You can't have a proper opinion if you haven't read it". And I think people should give it a try... you might like it.
TBP fans should know that Netflix is making a series on it.
I hope that the Netflix series will be good (I am not very optimistic). I saw a chinese adaptation of the first book : it's easy to adapt the plot, but more difficult to adapt the idea, or the sense to be a "lucky witness".
I really appreciated this review. By summoning multiple versions of you from different quantum realities, you ultimately made it about the book and not the reviewer, which is exactly how it should be. Great job.
Thanks
I might get more out of this series after doing some research into the “three-body” hypothesis, which is a real thing. I had no idea about it going into the book.
I was never a reader until my twenties then someone passed me the wasp factory, then my favourite book the bridge and then started reading the culture books, thirty years on and not reading anything for a long time I picked up the three body problem and it blew my mind with its ideas, sure it may have been written before but this was my first taste of big concepts and I followed with the series leading me back into reading and sci fi, I loved the books
Love the way you do your videos Moid, a fresh way of breaking down how we sometimes feel pulled in different directions by a book. I haven't read these books yet, but somehow it feels to me like a similarly divisive response to 1Q84, a book I felt was compellingly and brilliantly written but let down by its plot.
Need a tchaikovsky interview, one which does not adore him but asking difficult questions.
Perfect! By far the best review of this ambivalent trilogy I have ever seen!
Moid, your video's have become amazing. I always click on your videos. Your videos gone from content to art.
One thing that on multiple occasions brought me out of the books (particularly Dark Forest), in this "hard" science fiction series, was Cixin Liu's utter lack of understanding of orbital dynamics, e.g. if one fires a bullet in orbit it will NOT proceed in a straight line over kilometers of distance--it will go into it's own orbit. Also, objects do not just hover at the anchor point of a space elevator. They're moving too fast to be in a circular orbit at that location and will just fly off into a higher
The bullet will be in orbit yes, but so are the shooter and the target. The whole system is in the same frame of reference.
From their perspective it's as if it went in a more or less straight line no?
I loved the style of this video. I also felt totally torn this way. It has so many cool ideas, but the writing it's one of the only books I've read where the writing was bad enough for it to be distracting.
Welcome Back!!! Thought you fell into the void, Moid!
This video is a rewatch for me 😂 You deserve so many more subscribers, Moid!
Thank You
Very thankful for this video. I've been a little bemused by all the love for this and now I think I understand it. The love is not unwarranted, but these books are not for me.
Great review - subscribed.
I also disliked the first book for the same reasons. I wooden characters, bad dialogue and exposition...ugh. I could barely stand it and I almost didn't make it through it. As bad as the first book was, I have absolutely zero desire to pick up the second book, especially since I'd have to re-read the first book to remember the story.
Moid can review kitchen utensils and I’d watch it.
It was (imo) an interesting insight into the authors' culture. The way the book is written, how men and women are portrayed, how the characters' agency (or lack thereof) is portrayed, the thorough paranoia that the characters go through... IMO that is very revealing and a way to learn of a *completely* different mindset/worldview than mine.
That's what helped me get through it, because, yes, this series is a difficult one to read through even though the ideas are interesting.
I absolutely love the format of this video. I wish evil MOID had more to say--but I think he summed it up perfectly with: 9:10.
No i think that's just human, every culture that has come into contact with a less advanced culture has either wiped them out or enslaved them. The only real exception that i know of is the Sentinels of North Sentinel Island. We've left them alone. But even that doesn't work because we HAVEN'T left them alone, and even if we do now they've attacked anyone who comes close themselves. RoEP shows how the chain of suspicion can cause even "peaceful" cultures to act aggressively by default.
It was an interesting read for me . First book is a cool (and sometimes pretty terrifying ) exploration of first contact , second book is a nice exploration of one of the Fermi Paradox solutions , third book went batshit insane with the ideas. I definitely think that the time invested was worth it , however people comparing the prose and world building to Banks and Herbert are IMHO delusional . Great video Moid(s) ! .
Herbert is unfairly bashed for his prose imho
@@WeWereTheStormbooktube really likes to trash the prose of every book in existence that isn't written by Mccarthy or Faulkner.
@@WeWereTheStorm no thats Peter watts, i keep hearing people constantly bash him, perhaps along side Charles Stross for having juvenile prose or nonsensical scatter brained plots.
meanwhile people like gibson or Stephenson loops you with nonsensical techno babble and big words masking their mediocre prose.
overrated to no end
I concur! Preach on, brother.
Bravo, well played. An excellent summary. I might even no go and read the books too.
i think the writing suffers from a loss in translation. The big idea in this series tries to answer the question... Where are all the aliens?
I suspect the Cixin Liu's answer to the question is very Chinese. China has had terrible relations with just about everyone throughout history. The mongols, the Japanese, Koreans, all of Europe and the USA too. We want to "Go Boldly Where No One Has Gone Before." Chinese would rather we just leave them alone. This is manifested in Dark Forest Theory. Better to huddle in the cold and dark forest rather than attract malevolent intention by lighting a warming fire. Seems very Chinese to me based on what I know of their history.
nothing at all is lost in translation. ken lui is by far the best you could want and a better scifi writer himself. i didnt really get snything chinese out of it other than the robotic characters that you care little to nothing about and are expendable … to the story of course but irl to the fascist chinese government.
Eh don't buy it, he was a fan of Asimov and Clarke so I don't think it's that big of a gap that people make out to be.
It is worth noting that "Chinese" is a flexible meaning. Most popularly, it refers to the Han Chinese, who were the conglomeration of various competing tribes, the Huaxia, along the Yellow and Yangtse rivers, though not the oldest culture. China pretends these wars and expansions were not imperial in nature, but when one takes over another and the tribe flees? It is a series of conquests. Modern China ignores the distinctions, but ancient Chinese historian like Sima Qian wrote of the differences as a 'chasm' between them and the not-them Chinese, the Hua-Yi conflict--which itself ignored the different tribes that made up the Han that existed prior. Unified rule is what allowed anti-warlord Confucian philosophy to arise and the ideal of civilized behavior (if you behaved like Han and recognized the Emperor as supreme). Because of this prejudice, in 350 CE, three of the five recognized Chinese barbarian groups were targeted in the Wie-Jie genocide, led by usurper Emperor Ran Min. Various near Han Chinese took on and competed over the identity of Chinese, sinicisation, some for the purpose of ruling. There was a recognition of different but equal of dynasties. Arguments went back and forth, one emperor argued in favor of equality, another recalled all manuscripts because he thought they made the government look bad, etc. The idea of culture over race turned plain racist in the late 19th century, but would end most recently with a declaration that all groups inside China were Chinese, rather than barbarian.
How does this apply to the Dark Forest theory? In Chinese history, they were the threat in the forest until they sought peace because they won. This is how the cycle goes.
bullshit, americans went to war with literally everyone of their neighbors and have been at war for their entire existence baring 13 years.
china has terrible relationships? if china was like america there would be NO terrible relationships because china would have wiped all their neighbors out or eradicated them.
also china had practically no external enemies for most of its history, japan and korea were literally tributary states to china for most of its time and russia didn't even exist proper out of kievan rus. there was only the mongols which got sinicised and the romans which they had trade with as with the persians
you don't know jack shit about chinese history lmao.
Never mind the SF, you are blowing my mind here MOID! I am in the camp of been-reading-Science-Fiction-for-50+-years and wondered what all the fuss was about when I read this series and the writing was weird, even tedious. I have re-read 3 body but not the other two yet because of the hype and yes I liked it better the second time.
The invisible gun holster vest on the ultra positive character was a nice touch. A+
The first book is quite nice. It's very mysterious and if you didn't read anything about it at all, you kinda keep guessing what the hell is causing the deaths and the numbers.
The Dark Forest was great for its second half and the solution being a sociological idea, rather than a hard sci-fi or warfare angle.
Book three was good because of the massive amount of ideas and the vast scale of it all.
However, all three books have the same issues. Poor characterization, clunky exposition and wishy-washy sociology in order to support the negative view of social interactions the author was going for. Overall, I agree with Moid's statement. It's good in the moment but it doesn't stay with you all that much. It's a good series that I have no desire to read again.
I love the "three body review" approach. :) Thank you for the honest review.
When you finally fine the voices in your head a job to do 😅 great review, thanks for some laughs.
Very well edited. Given how they all come together at the end, I'm curious what order you filmed each review?
Have you ever reviewed Mars Trilogy? I would love to hear your opinion on it.
The Sophon's are just way too OP, that is, they're McGuffin's to the 3rd power.
Yeah, I’m on team red. Was given the first book a couple of years back by a friend and caught some of the hype. I was really interested in the Chinese angle as well. Normally I’m a pretty forgiving reader and I’m happy to have good elements of characterisation, plot, ideas and pacing compensate for weaker ones. But man, this was so poorly written. Non of the characters spoke or behaved like real people. The pacing was terrible, the plotting nonsensical and frankly I found the ideas mundane and stuff that has been done so much better elsewhere. I struggled all the way to the end, convinced that I must be missing something or that it was about to get better, but no. It really made me question where all the hype was coming from.
I find it interesting to hear your different takes and am almost tempted to give it another shot, but I don’t think I can get over how bad that first book was…
This was a terrific way to play out the review[s].
Thank you
a irl three body review lol - this was awesome very good work nigel 🎉
And this is how bookreviews should be done.
Top review, and perfect for the series
My experience was TBP: This has bad writing but kinda cool. TDF: Why is so much of this about thus knob's fake girlfriend? DE: 🤯
I also found the Three Body Problem to slow and I thought of an advanced civilization being able to develop under those conditions to far fetched. Recently I saw the TV adaptation of this book and made me enjoy it more to the point that almost 10 years later I read the last two in the series back to back. The second I think by far was the best and the second was almost depressing making humanity so naive it kept destroying itself which again was a bit to unbelievable but still overall enjoyable.
The Sci fi genre is so bad right now that people actually think this is a good show.
I really liked the Three Body Problem trilogy! Now that I've watched your debate I'm feeling like reading it again, thanks!
And by the way, at around 7.05 in your video you are doing a quite good resemblance of Nicola Walker :)
I'm on Red Team.
I don't think it's a loss in translation or cultural differences issue with the book. I've read other Chinese authors (mostly ordinary literary fiction not SF) that have had none of the problems I had with the Three Body Problem series. The writing improves somewhat over the 3 books but the major structural and character issues couldn't be fixed by the author, he's an imaginative guy but not the best writer in the world and to the books credit it mostly succeeds despite it's inherent flaws. It's far from a perfect book series that some reviewers I've seen have painted it as and Moids review is very fair with both praise and criticism and the Devil and Angel voices is a highly imaginative way to highlight that contradiction without seeming to be overly negative or positive. Hopefully now Moid is into the new house and getting settled his creative juices go into overdrive.
The problem is, I DNFed the first book so it’s not very helpful when people tell me how great the third book is.
Same.
Not everyone is intelligent enough for it.
I got through the first and DNF'd the second. The second book's first act is garbage. I honestly don't care if it gets great later. I've got plenty of excellent sci-fi to read that doesn't take a book and a half or more to get interesting.
I listened to the first book and could barely get through it. While I understood all the concepts I couldn’t understand all the hype.
@@thomasschmidt7649it’s called build up.
I just don’t understand the crazy love for these books . I’m missing it .
Nice review, I had no desire to read the Remembrance of earths past books before your review and still have none.
I lived in Azië for some time and from that periode got some immersion in the culture. The way of being, thinking, decision making etc . The characters felt very familiar to me . The author is Chinese. Different culture that the West . Maybe that has an influence .
To the people who told you to read the whole trilogy before passing judgment, books in a trilogy/series still need to stand on their own. If the first book is not good, why would someone want to read more from that same author before passing judgment? The book still needs to be a good book and shouldn't get a pass just because it's part of a trilogy. The first book being the weakest is not a good sign because that's supposed to introduce you to the story and get you hooked. If it's boring or bad, then it failed at its job.