rewilding has been one of my favorite things so far happening with zoology and biology alike. there's one happening in south America! in fact every continent used to have its own Savannah.
Problem is, almost all South American megafauna are extinct without any close living relatives. This includes animals such as meridiungulates and large Xenarthrans
@@kevinsaviro2708practically nothing, since the entire megafauna guild that made up the ecosystem is entirely extinct without any close relative or analogues. It’s seems that at least in South America, that kind of ecosystem is gone forever
Being from Argentina, I could only dream of what it would have been like to run into glyptodons, gomphotheres, ground sloths and smilodon out in the pampas or patagonia. Unfortunately I think in their case there’s no bringing them back. But at least we have Eurasia and North America to work with.
Hi! I'm Jithin, Welcome of the Fossils to Forests. the Tarutino Steppe has to Reintroduce Kulan, Wild Przewalski's Horses, Tauros, Fallow Deer, Red Deer, Asiatic Lions, Caucasian Leopards, Wild Bactrian Camels, Spotted hyenas, Striped Hyenas, Mouflon Sheep and the Saiga Antelope.
Agreed! I believe Rewilding Europe has already introduced Kulan and Koniks to the steppe. Pretty sure there’s also fallow deer there too. It would be amazing if they introduced large felines such as leopards and lions though!
Rewilding europe already reintroduced - kulan (2 shipment, (20 individuals) already a few foal, they aim to get 250-300 kulan by 2035). - a few dozens fallow deer - feral cattle - red deer - feral horses - eagle owl - support for pelican nest - a few wild hamster - a few steppe marmot
You should settle for african lions, domestic bactrian camels and domestic horses, these are far more abundant on earth than the rarer counterparts you listed and thus will be cheaper for you to acquire while providing the exact same ecological functions.
@@PILLOWKVLT they might be far less adapted or viable tho. ANd using the rarer species also help in their conservation, which they need far more than the other.
I believe this concept is key to recovering our declining wildlife abundance and biodiversity. Very well done - I posted a link to your video from my Blue Sky page.
There's also this project in Siberia to recreate the Pleistocene. I'm really a fan of it, as the guy running it has convincingly demonstrated the need for more steppes to trap CO2 and slow global warming, long before this video made me aware that similar projects exist in western Europe. Early results are actually pretty promising, IIRC. His idea is similar to your Dutch guy @ 8:22 but applied to what we call the Taiga. Knowing now that such grasslands trap MORE CO2 than forests do makes this a very easy sale to pitch. Unfortunately, the geopolitical situation will make cooperation hard for both sides, as each has what the other needs to finish this (frankly awesome) project. This war in Ukraine needs to end already so humanity can do something awesome! It's been a dream of mine for years to see such re-wilding efforts take place back home as well. But once again, the geopolitics aren't lining up right now--to put it mildly.
I also follow what they are doing in Pleistocene park. It is also truly exciting since they are going to the next level and integrating even more megafauna. I find it interesting how they also released North American bison into the reserve as well, do you think this could also be done in Europe?
@@FossilsToForests I don't see why not. Steppe Bison--which is far closer to American bison than to the Wisent IIRC--was native to Europe as well. And the American ones have been doing very well in Siberia.
Yes its good to see more interest in grasslands happening. Forests are nice and all but they tend to take the limelight in public perception. Even in places were full rewilding is not possible, farmers switching to more sustainable grazing practice report the return of locally extant birds, insects and smaller mammals. The grass can be greener on the other side. It is a shame that so much human effort is put into destruction when we could be constructing in a positive way.
It would have been good to mention the wisents, or European bison. A close relative of the American bison living in Europe that is close to extinction and currently under a conservation program that aims to revive the European bison population. And the program works. The wild European bison population increased from 1,800 individuals in 2003 to more than 6,200 individuals in 2019.
Yes! I would’ve loved to mention them as well, but for the sake of the length of the video I’ll save them for some other video. But it’s truly inspiring what Rewilding Europe and its partners is doing with Wisent, especially in the Carpathians. Maybe i’ll make a video about the effect that they have had on carbon sequestration in the rewilding project area.
Very nice video, just two remarks: 1. The first rewilding projects where done by the Nazis in the forest of Bialowieza during the 40s with konik horses and Heck cattle. A bit after Polish scientists reintroduced the european bison in the same forest now in eastern Poland. 2. A old growth forest its not dark since the canopy is very open, yourn, dense forests or plantations yes are dark and have a closed canopy. Once again in the forest of Bialowieza you can see all the architecture of a truly wild, ancient and functional ecosystem.
The Heck brothers attempt to bring back the Aurochs can’t really be considered rewilding since it wasn’t for ecological restoration. More to fulfill their fantasy of hunting Aurochs. You are right about old growth forests, I should have mentioned that not all forests are bad of course. However not all of europe should be old growth, and there has to be more grassland environment across the continent.
Konik is a breed created by polish farmers. Last specimens of wild forest horse were in possession of family Zamoyski and during one of the world conflicts they were gifted to polish farmers who bred them with polish big horses. Later on, the horses with the most of wild traces were gathered to „purify them”. And that’s how we have this breed: konik polski. It’s interesting how for all of this three Poland was the last shelter(last auroch died in Poland)
Hi I'm a chick forest technician from Montreal, Qc, Canada 🇨🇦! I majored in Sylviculture, re-wilding rocks, let nature in your yard it has nowhere else to go!😊
15,000 years ago, the ice age still prevailed in Europe, the “Serengeti” was the mammoth steppe, it was too cold for trees. A few thousand years later, when it became warmer, trees were able to grow again without the help of humans. And since the mammoths could not cope with this, they became extinct. A steppe is a deficient biotope with either too little rain or too little warmth. Look at Canada or eastern Russia, where there is cold steppe, do you want that climate in Europe?
It’s a bit the other way around. Yes when it became warmer it facilitated the growth of trees, however those trees were kept in check by the mammoths and other megafauna that lived at the time. Only when those species started to go extinct (due to humans and younger dryas) were the tees able to expand their range and cover more of the continent. Mammoths did not go extinct because trees expanded, trees expanded because mammoths went extinct! How are steppes deficient? And the introduction of megafaunal herbivores will not make the temperatures of Europe colder like those of Siberia or Canada.
Nice and plenty of info. Thank you! It’s very important and cool that more and more people are starting to wake up and realize the importance of wild life until it’s not too late.
Great video! However I couldn't help but notice that when you talked about the Tauros Programme you at various points showed Taurus, not Tauros, cattle. Taurus cattle are the product of a different german breeding-back project that uses different breeds and whose cattle are generally much larger and overall more aurochs-like than Tauros cattle. There is also the third and youngest Auerrind Project that have their own animals as well.
Thank you for the correction! I was aware that there were previous “unsuccessful” attempts at bringing back the Aurochs (such as those by the Heck brothers), but I guess I had the names mixed up 😅
My friend it’s already happening! There are economic, health and social incentives to do megafaunal rewilding in Europe. If we continue to talk about and spread the word, more people are going to learn of its beauty and soon we will have safari-like areas all over the continent (probably no mammoths sadly).
@ i hope you’re right and i do want to stay positive. But i can imagine some people don’t want big predators like wolves and bears around since they’re a threat to their livestock. In the Netherlands wolves finally returned after being gone for a long time, yet there are sadly many people who want to kill them cause they occasionally kill a sheep and they’re afraid the wolves will come after human children. I want to focus on the bright side but knowing humans, I don’t know how long we can maintain the positivity of creating more room for wildlife. I think there will be a lot of backlash and (hopefully not) politicians who legalize hunting big game again.
@@kevinsaviro2708 Yes you’re absolutely right, living alongside apex predators is a massive challenge and requires changes to our agricultural, political and social systems. But I do believe it is possible. If people are educated about the importance of apex predators, the ecological benefits that they bring and how those effects impact people (more pristine nature, less disease etc), I think it’s possible to change the stigma that wolves and bears are detrimental to humanity. Also people are not usually aware that ranchers do not actually lose money if they lose livestock to predators, because it’s compensated by the government. Once people learn more about them, I believe coexistence is more than possible, but necessary!
@@kevinsaviro2708 Strategic use of fencing may be an answer. This may seem counter to environmentalism but it can be a valuable tool. An example from here in Australia, they are now using fences to create feral cat free zones for vulnerable species. Expensive yes, but it has saved many species from the brink.
Fun video, I recently thought about this topic and what else could be reintroduced. Thinking of elephants, rhinos, maybe even giraffes, lions, leopards... of course none of this will happen outside of delightful speculation, but the mental imagery is beautiful. Let's also not leave Europe's greatly diminished Flora aside, although there generally seems to be much misinformation and resistance to the topic of reintroducing plants. Definitely very interesting topics and something to read and think about, cheers
It is extremely exciting to think about what European wilderness could be in the near future. Though I do not believe that we will ever reintroduce mega herbivores such as proboscideans and rhinoceros back solely because of the logistical problems they would bring. Also I believe there weren’t giraffes in Europe by the end of the pleistocene (unfortunately).
The basic principal of this video and rewilding I fully agree with. I as a fellow Dutch person have a few notes though. 1. The agri-lobby prevents us from truly enacting this vision by influencing politics negatively. As in stifling support for the gradual return of wolves, lynx, jackals and bears. It has even affected the support for foxes, mustelids (like stone and pine martins and wolverines) and some birds of prey. Wolves have found their way back to the east of the Netherlands and Belgium from Germany. The large abundance of prey here is causing a bit of an explosion of their population and the continuing creation of new packs. 2. Problem is, that wolves (especially the younger more inexperienced ones) will choose easy prey when given the opportunity because evolution teaches not to waste an easy meal and modern sheep (bred for meat and wool) are completely helpless, so are ponies and many other smaller herbivores or even certain larger ones. 3.This has been used by hunters and the agri-lobby alike to fearmonger about wolves ("Oh no it's the monster of old coming to snatch your pets, kids and maybe....even you!😱"). 4. This absolute 🦬💩 pun intended, has scared many Dutch people and also others to hate wolves and see them and conservation of nature as incompatible with modern human agriculture and life in these densily populated places. 5. Then there's the issue of overgrazing and the deterioration of Dutch nature reserves by pollution of all kinds and isolation. We have a massive amount of pollution in the Netherlands and Europe in general from way too much meat and dairy cultivation. Too much 💩 about 4 trillion kgs/year in the Netherlands alone. Which causes too much nitrates to get into the soil and acidiffication to kick and ruin trees, water and the methane ruins the air. 6. Plus, in this tiny country of 18 million humans, like everywhere housing and many other essential goods are hard to come by, which is tearing it apart at the seams. Making an argument for rewilding to regular people will have you be called an idiot, moron, dumb hippy or worse. I regularly make this argument to the toughest of crowds so trust me on this one, Dutch people are to make things worse, as stubborn as a goat and will even tell you to F off if they don't feel like arguing, regardless of how good your points are. I'm not saying that we should give up but, it needs to be taken into account.
I completely agree. The wolf situation in this country (and in the rest of Europe) is very nuanced and complicated. However I do believe that it is possible to change peoples stigmas on coexisting with apex predators, it just needs time (and for the older generations to die off unfortunately). For example in rural villages in India, the people still appreciate apex predators like tigers and leopards even though they kill their livestock and sometimes even their friends and family. They’re aware that we are the ones expanding into them, and they have as much of a right to be there as we do (if not more). The notion that wolves are dangerous to people is indeed bullshit, since they rarely attack us and would rather keep a distance (unless people are being stupid and handing them food like in NL). And as for the killing of livestock it also isn’t a valid argument, the government compensates any confirmed losses and it is also really easy to prevent killings simply by adding guard animals (like kangal dogs and even donkeys) into the herds. I believe that even in NL, we will see the acceptance of wolves (probably never bears but that’s ok) into the little nature we have left.
@@PNWhiker-r1v30 by 30 talks about how countries need to make room for more natural areas. Of course as it is political its mostly talks and wishful thinking for the future. But who knows… maybe the future of the worlds ecosystems looks brighter. All we can do is hope, pray, speak up and vote!
@@martinpindur4610 is there though? Where would that be. Elephant herds have ranges that span over 2 million acres in the wild. And that goes in any direction including peoples property. In a fenced wild life park sure but never truly wild.
Thank you for this video! A very interesting issue! In the sagas of ancient greeks there is the saga of the Nemean Lion, which was killed by Heracles. The historians and biologists assume, that this saga is a rememberance at the last European lions which were wiped out in the early Bronze Age in the Balkan Peninsula. Even the ancient Romans saw a lot of European animal species which don't exist anymore. The European forest elephant (Palaeoloxodon antiquus) which was taller than the todays African elephant was wiped out 11700 years ago. This elephant species survived the former subspecies of Humans, but the current hybrid Human species of mostly Homo sapiens x neanderthalensis and some other Human subspecies, it couldn't survive also at the end of the last glacial period the life conditions for the European forest elephant became very good in big parts of Europe... if there wouldn't have been a terrible apex predator...
Indeed, there were also wild equines in north america up until relatively recently, much of its ecology was very similar to that of Eurasia at the time.
I believe that the next area where this sort of rewilding will spread to is to the British isles. People over there are already so passionate about the movement and have been doing the best they can to support it. I mean people are even taking about introducing wolves and lynx to combat the overpopulation of deer. There’s hope over there too, just keep advocating and change will come.
Hello, FtF, nice video. I suppose you are Dutch, just like me, but because I am not sure, let´s write in English. A question, were in the Netherlands do you live? The dune scape and the use of horses to control forest growth makes me wonder: the Veluwe, one of the Frisian islands? As for a future subject, maybe some more about the Oostvaarder Plassen and the controversy - how to control a population explosion of the herbivores (followed by mass starvation) when there are no big carnivores. Your opinion, the pro´s and contras.
Hello! I am not Dutch but have lived here most my life. I live in The Hague, so the horses that I filmed were from the Meijendel dunes. And yes doing research on this video I saw a ton of articles critiquing the Oostvardersplassen due to the unregulated reproduction of the grazers. To be honest, I think that one way to manage these grazers is to cull then and sell their meat as “wild” meat. This also gives another economic incentive to rewilding and makes it more appealing to the public.
@@FossilsToForests Thanks for the answer. I share your opinion about culling. It is a a more animal friendly approach of meat production than our bioindustry ( a good life and a quick death) and makes rewilding more economic sustainable (together with tourism). (Answer in English, for non-Dutch speakers interested in this conversation). Good luck with the channel.
It would be very interesting to make a video about why our culture is so afraid of nature and life in general and how nature conservation depends on this understanding to change our culture.
Absolutely love that idea! I’ll definitely consider making a video about that. If we are to successfully rewild our land, we need to rewild our hearts and minds
Restoring the former greatness of Europe is a wonderful undertaking, however, while watching this video I have some concerns, hopefully they are unfounded and someone can explain it to me. Grazing megafauna is undoubtedly a powerful tool to gradually make Europe wilder, but what about predators ? There are not many species in Europe right now that can prey on tauros and wild horses. Sure there are wolves, lynxes and bears, but wolves and lynxes can only hunt cubs or singles due to their small size, and bears are very scarce. Would this lack of predators lead to a population boom of grazing animals, which would lead to further degradation of the landscape? As in Scotland, for example, where huge herds of deer prevent the landscape from recovering from the damage caused by livestock grazing.
This is a great question and solid argument. Although wolves are probably capable of taking down tauros (wolves hunt bison in herds in NA), and certainly horses; I think populations of grazing herbivores that are released into nature reserves for the sake of habitat restoration, should actually be controlled by culling and carefully monitoring the population of herbivores. For example, in the Netherlands the highland cattle and deer that are released into reserves, are killed and then their bodies are sold as wild meat. This also creates an economic incentive for megafauna rewilding.
@@FossilsToForests Thank you very much for your reply ! I have never heard of such a practice as in the Netherlands, it is indeed a great way, albeit a bit “artificial”
the rewilding of the Oostvaardersplassen has stopped. The deer and the horses have been moved or shot. Their numbers got too large and the plants suffered. We had the choice between letting them starve or removing them. It is still a bird reserve though.
There are still horses and deer at the plassen, just a lot less. I probably should’ve mentioned in my video that the unregulated reproduction of these grazers also had negative consequences for the ecology and wellbeing. But since then the staatsbosbeheer have managed their numbers by culling.
The forests in modern Europe are not ancient, they are mostly planted monoculture pine/spruce that are intensely managed. In the time when the Romans encountered the Germanic tribes they described those parts of Europe as densely wooded, but the environment was completely different. A thousand years ago Scandinavia would be covered by deciduous trees, now its pretty much completely gone. Europe used to have a massive biodiversity. Even if it was entirely covered by old broadleaf forest, this would be much closer to its natural state.
By the time of the Roman empire there would have been old growth deciduous forests yes. But those forests were not naturally there before the megafaunal extinction at the end of the pleistocene.
Central, southern and eastern Europe have much more nutrion rich soil then Africa. Same areas in Europe when left alone have more rain, have a more humid climate generaly then Africa Like flood forest in Eastern Europe, and the many rivers and lakes of Britain and Germany. We have some savanna areas left mainly in parts of Europe, but they are not very torny or tree less. So a dryer savanna like som areas of Africa is not Europe like. Europe was a very rich continent before humans, it`s not natural for Europe to have less then Asia or Africa. I know, i studying paleontology and zoologi alike. (many animal species died at the beginning of the ice age, but in contrast to plants a huge amount of the mega fauna died in late pleistocen after human arrival including almost every fauna on untouched islands. I also have seen into the complex picture of european flora. (many plant species died in the beginning of the ice ages, but almost no one died in the late pleistocen. ) I am positiv to rewilding, building up a better fauna complex with predators. If you fenced in bigger predators like lions, hyenas and lepards and megafauna like indian elephant (for wolly mammoth) and some of the extinct antilopes like waterbuck in greater nature reserves like Chernobyl it would work. (pity we have to only have that form of natural function in Europe behind bars.) Without predators it would be massiv overgrazing (like with livestock all over Europe) Ironical wolfs, lynx and bears was never the apex predators in Europe.
I agree that Europe is one massive rewilding opportunity just waiting for the reintroduction of its native megafauna. However I do not think we will ever be able to reintroduce animals such as elephants, lions or hyenas even into closed nature reserves. Europe is simply too small to allow for these extremely active animals to live, they need vast amounts of uninterrupted land if they are to find enough food and territory. Even areas such as the Chernobyl exclusion zone are probably not big enough to sustain a population of elephants (that’s not even considering that asian elephants likely have completely different diets to that of wooly mammoths). The populations of large herbivores would likely be managed by humans and the apex predators that we still have. In fact, humans having to do the hunting and controlling of the populations of aurochs, wisent, deer and so forth; would actually give another economic incentive to rewilding. You can do rewilding, control the populations and then sell the animal produce as wild meat.
Those areas make great rewilding regions mainly because of their isolation, size and being generally "intact" compared to Europe. However I don't think that Canada and Siberia are inherently more habitable for Pleistocene megafauna than other parts of Eurasia climatically speaking. For example large areas of Eastern and Northern Europe have been suggested to be perfect environments for the rewilding of both carnivorous and herbivorous megafauna.
So in Europe humans made forests, but why no forests in Africa? And why no forests in East / Soth Europe but savana like dry grasslands, no humans were there? Maybe it the main reason was … climate ?
You raise a good point. In Africa the expansion of forests was kept in check by the megafauna that we didn’t kill off. In East and South Europe there very much are more forests than there would’ve been in the past. Some steppe environments were kept able to survive by sheer luck, but most of the steppe grassland environment was lost.
This is just romanticism of tales of the past, Im sure thered be plenty of people saying it should return to the old dark forests if the reverse was true as well. There is no "natural state" everything is always changing. I wish a more serious discussion were to be made in the video instead of just ignoring the biggest event happening at the end of the pleistocene, the ice melted and changed every landscape throughout most of Europe.
Yeah, a great point to consider... My homeland Latvia has experienced a steady growth of wildife during past three decades. To the fringe that the number of the European brown bears has risen to many dosens and it's a question of time to allow hunting them... otherwise they're already making harm to farmsteads, lifestock etc. Concerning grazing beasts, Latvia has re-established flocks of deer, horses, old species of semi wild bovines - so there is a European Serengeti almost everywhere in the Latvian countryside - just go the forest and see the footprint or poo of elks, wild boar, lynx, foxes, wolves etc. 😁
Many scientists agree that the end pleistocene extinctions were caused by human activity. The extinctions did not happen in one go, it spanned over 50,000 years. There’s a huge bias against terrestrial megafauna, aquatic and smaller organisms were not nearly as effected. The extinction of many of these species is strongly correlated with the arrival of our species in the area. Also depending on how long genus Homo had been coexisting with the native species, the extinctions were more or less severe. In Asia and Africa, much less megafauna went extinct than in the America’s or Australia, which is evidence that the ecosystems that were less adapted to human predation were the ones most affected.
No much evidence of large human populations at that time. Humans activity was a factor sure but theory on the extinction's has shifted towards climate change. Any change in a system affects the larger and less adaptable animals first.
If i’m not mistaken, there is recent evidence to suggest that it was in fact primarily due to human pressures that causes this extinction event. The climate likely played a factor, but these species have been surviving through glacial/interglacials for millions of years. The likelihood that they went extinct because the weather changed once again seems unlikely to me. And considering how many animals humans would hunt (we find mammoth kill sites with dozens of individuals which is a lot for slow reproducing mammoths), it would be more logical to assume that the reason they went extinct was due to our species.
@@FossilsToForests There is also recent theories to refute, it is an ongoing debate. Just in the numbers game. 300, 000 to 700, 000 people is tiny. There is nothing to indicate there was ever any more than that in Australia. That is very little pressure in a vast land, even with fire use. The same would go for the Mammoth habitat. Many of them would never even have encountered a human. Were is the evidence for all these alleged masses of people. Sure the climate swung previously but there were still some extinctions related to that. Does not cut the mustard for me sorry.
@@FossilsToForests but i have to say the megafauna and humans in europe seems to have been coexisting for nearly 20k years and the population estimate for humans is from 100,000 to 400,000,with that kind of population and the size of eurasia i really am struggling to see humans wiping out the mega fauna.And the extinction events in europe and north america were very quick with it only spanning some 3k years
The younger dryas did probably play a part in the extinction. But looking at the correlation between the arrival of humans to different parts of the world and the loss of its megafauna, it’s difficult to ignore the destructive effect that we tend to have on the environment. There also seems to be a correlation between how adapted the local wildlife would have been to human predation, and how much of an impact they suffered. Africa and Eurasia have more megafauna left than the new world and certainly oceania. When humans showed up we brought extinction.
@@FossilsToForests Yeah not saying they did not affect anything. There is a few evidences like significant quantities of flightless bird eggs, found to be cooked on fires. May have been a bit harder to get to the Quinkana eggs though. That might have been a bit to risky for an omelette. 😨
rewilding has been one of my favorite things so far happening with zoology and biology alike.
there's one happening in south America! in fact every continent used to have its own Savannah.
Indeed they did! Someday i’d love to make a video about the fauna of all the continents before the end Pleistocene extinction.
In South America you still have the Cerrado and Pampas. Would be interesting to see what animals they’ll be able to bring back.
Problem is, almost all South American megafauna are extinct without any close living relatives. This includes animals such as meridiungulates and large Xenarthrans
@@kevinsaviro2708practically nothing, since the entire megafauna guild that made up the ecosystem is entirely extinct without any close relative or analogues. It’s seems that at least in South America, that kind of ecosystem is gone forever
Being from Argentina, I could only dream of what it would have been like to run into glyptodons, gomphotheres, ground sloths and smilodon out in the pampas or patagonia. Unfortunately I think in their case there’s no bringing them back. But at least we have Eurasia and North America to work with.
Hi! I'm Jithin, Welcome of the Fossils to Forests. the Tarutino Steppe has to Reintroduce Kulan, Wild Przewalski's Horses, Tauros, Fallow Deer, Red Deer, Asiatic Lions, Caucasian Leopards, Wild Bactrian Camels, Spotted hyenas, Striped Hyenas, Mouflon Sheep and the Saiga Antelope.
Agreed! I believe Rewilding Europe has already introduced Kulan and Koniks to the steppe. Pretty sure there’s also fallow deer there too. It would be amazing if they introduced large felines such as leopards and lions though!
Rewilding europe already reintroduced
- kulan (2 shipment, (20 individuals) already a few foal, they aim to get 250-300 kulan by 2035).
- a few dozens fallow deer
- feral cattle
- red deer
- feral horses
- eagle owl
- support for pelican nest
- a few wild hamster
- a few steppe marmot
You should settle for african lions, domestic bactrian camels and domestic horses, these are far more abundant on earth than the rarer counterparts you listed and thus will be cheaper for you to acquire while providing the exact same ecological functions.
@@PILLOWKVLT
they might be far less adapted or viable tho.
ANd using the rarer species also help in their conservation, which they need far more than the other.
Great video, thank you! Very useful for rewilding communication.
Just as i got very interested in european megafauna you post this very informative video, thank you!
it’s an incredible topic that I suggest you dig deep into.
I believe this concept is key to recovering our declining wildlife abundance and biodiversity. Very well done - I posted a link to your video from my Blue Sky page.
Wow thank you so much! And yes I totally agree, rewilding will help us undo the damage that our species has caused for millennia.
There's also this project in Siberia to recreate the Pleistocene. I'm really a fan of it, as the guy running it has convincingly demonstrated the need for more steppes to trap CO2 and slow global warming, long before this video made me aware that similar projects exist in western Europe. Early results are actually pretty promising, IIRC. His idea is similar to your Dutch guy @ 8:22 but applied to what we call the Taiga. Knowing now that such grasslands trap MORE CO2 than forests do makes this a very easy sale to pitch.
Unfortunately, the geopolitical situation will make cooperation hard for both sides, as each has what the other needs to finish this (frankly awesome) project. This war in Ukraine needs to end already so humanity can do something awesome!
It's been a dream of mine for years to see such re-wilding efforts take place back home as well. But once again, the geopolitics aren't lining up right now--to put it mildly.
I also follow what they are doing in Pleistocene park. It is also truly exciting since they are going to the next level and integrating even more megafauna. I find it interesting how they also released North American bison into the reserve as well, do you think this could also be done in Europe?
@@FossilsToForests
I don't see why not. Steppe Bison--which is far closer to American bison than to the Wisent IIRC--was native to Europe as well.
And the American ones have been doing very well in Siberia.
Yes its good to see more interest in grasslands happening. Forests are nice and all but they tend to take the limelight in public perception. Even in places were full rewilding is not possible, farmers switching to more sustainable grazing practice report the return of locally extant birds, insects and smaller mammals.
The grass can be greener on the other side.
It is a shame that so much human effort is put into destruction when we could be constructing in a positive way.
@ Id love to see them introduced to Europe then!
Hi, thank you - a very nice video, and very inspiring!
It would have been good to mention the wisents, or European bison. A close relative of the American bison living in Europe that is close to extinction and currently under a conservation program that aims to revive the European bison population. And the program works. The wild European bison population increased from 1,800 individuals in 2003 to more than 6,200 individuals in 2019.
Yes! I would’ve loved to mention them as well, but for the sake of the length of the video I’ll save them for some other video. But it’s truly inspiring what Rewilding Europe and its partners is doing with Wisent, especially in the Carpathians. Maybe i’ll make a video about the effect that they have had on carbon sequestration in the rewilding project area.
They're about 8 225 individual now.
Including over 4000 wild free ranging individual, and the rest is generally semi-frer ranging ones.
@@FossilsToForests You did slightly mention them during the beginning.
Very nice video, just two remarks: 1. The first rewilding projects where done by the Nazis in the forest of Bialowieza during the 40s with konik horses and Heck cattle. A bit after Polish scientists reintroduced the european bison in the same forest now in eastern Poland. 2. A old growth forest its not dark since the canopy is very open, yourn, dense forests or plantations yes are dark and have a closed canopy. Once again in the forest of Bialowieza you can see all the architecture of a truly wild, ancient and functional ecosystem.
The Heck brothers attempt to bring back the Aurochs can’t really be considered rewilding since it wasn’t for ecological restoration. More to fulfill their fantasy of hunting Aurochs.
You are right about old growth forests, I should have mentioned that not all forests are bad of course. However not all of europe should be old growth, and there has to be more grassland environment across the continent.
Konik is a breed created by polish farmers. Last specimens of wild forest horse were in possession of family Zamoyski and during one of the world conflicts they were gifted to polish farmers who bred them with polish big horses. Later on, the horses with the most of wild traces were gathered to „purify them”. And that’s how we have this breed: konik polski.
It’s interesting how for all of this three Poland was the last shelter(last auroch died in Poland)
Hi I'm a chick forest technician from Montreal, Qc, Canada 🇨🇦! I majored in Sylviculture, re-wilding rocks, let nature in your yard it has nowhere else to go!😊
15,000 years ago, the ice age still prevailed in Europe, the “Serengeti” was the mammoth steppe, it was too cold for trees. A few thousand years later, when it became warmer, trees were able to grow again without the help of humans. And since the mammoths could not cope with this, they became extinct. A steppe is a deficient biotope with either too little rain or too little warmth. Look at Canada or eastern Russia, where there is cold steppe, do you want that climate in Europe?
It’s a bit the other way around. Yes when it became warmer it facilitated the growth of trees, however those trees were kept in check by the mammoths and other megafauna that lived at the time. Only when those species started to go extinct (due to humans and younger dryas) were the tees able to expand their range and cover more of the continent. Mammoths did not go extinct because trees expanded, trees expanded because mammoths went extinct!
How are steppes deficient? And the introduction of megafaunal herbivores will not make the temperatures of Europe colder like those of Siberia or Canada.
Nice and plenty of info. Thank you!
It’s very important and cool that more and more people are starting to wake up and realize the importance of wild life until it’s not too late.
Great video, thank you
Ein sehr guter Vortrag, vielen Dank.
Thank you! I’m glad you enjoyed it :)
This video was awesome! Very informative but also incredibly well edited and structured, Bravo sir!
Very much appreciated :)
Genial todos tus videos.!!! Súper interesantes, brindan conocimiento y te permiten reflexionar sobre ella y el hombre❤
Great video! However I couldn't help but notice that when you talked about the Tauros Programme you at various points showed Taurus, not Tauros, cattle. Taurus cattle are the product of a different german breeding-back project that uses different breeds and whose cattle are generally much larger and overall more aurochs-like than Tauros cattle. There is also the third and youngest Auerrind Project that have their own animals as well.
Thank you for the correction! I was aware that there were previous “unsuccessful” attempts at bringing back the Aurochs (such as those by the Heck brothers), but I guess I had the names mixed up 😅
Well thought out, nice video! Keep at it
I’m writing the next script this very moment :)
I really hope we see the return of wild Europe with its majestic megafauna in our lifetime
My friend it’s already happening! There are economic, health and social incentives to do megafaunal rewilding in Europe. If we continue to talk about and spread the word, more people are going to learn of its beauty and soon we will have safari-like areas all over the continent (probably no mammoths sadly).
@ i hope you’re right and i do want to stay positive. But i can imagine some people don’t want big predators like wolves and bears around since they’re a threat to their livestock. In the Netherlands wolves finally returned after being gone for a long time, yet there are sadly many people who want to kill them cause they occasionally kill a sheep and they’re afraid the wolves will come after human children. I want to focus on the bright side but knowing humans, I don’t know how long we can maintain the positivity of creating more room for wildlife. I think there will be a lot of backlash and (hopefully not) politicians who legalize hunting big game again.
Uk has wild horses
@@kevinsaviro2708 Yes you’re absolutely right, living alongside apex predators is a massive challenge and requires changes to our agricultural, political and social systems. But I do believe it is possible. If people are educated about the importance of apex predators, the ecological benefits that they bring and how those effects impact people (more pristine nature, less disease etc), I think it’s possible to change the stigma that wolves and bears are detrimental to humanity. Also people are not usually aware that ranchers do not actually lose money if they lose livestock to predators, because it’s compensated by the government. Once people learn more about them, I believe coexistence is more than possible, but necessary!
@@kevinsaviro2708 Strategic use of fencing may be an answer. This may seem counter to environmentalism but it can be a valuable tool. An example from here in Australia, they are now using fences to create feral cat free zones for vulnerable species. Expensive yes, but it has saved many species from the brink.
Fun video, I recently thought about this topic and what else could be reintroduced. Thinking of elephants, rhinos, maybe even giraffes, lions, leopards... of course none of this will happen outside of delightful speculation, but the mental imagery is beautiful. Let's also not leave Europe's greatly diminished Flora aside, although there generally seems to be much misinformation and resistance to the topic of reintroducing plants. Definitely very interesting topics and something to read and think about, cheers
It is extremely exciting to think about what European wilderness could be in the near future. Though I do not believe that we will ever reintroduce mega herbivores such as proboscideans and rhinoceros back solely because of the logistical problems they would bring.
Also I believe there weren’t giraffes in Europe by the end of the pleistocene (unfortunately).
Astonishing video 💯💯💯
Thank you!!
The basic principal of this video and rewilding I fully agree with. I as a fellow Dutch person have a few notes though.
1. The agri-lobby prevents us from truly enacting this vision by influencing politics negatively. As in stifling support for the gradual return of wolves, lynx, jackals and bears. It has even affected the support for foxes, mustelids (like stone and pine martins and wolverines) and some birds of prey. Wolves have found their way back to the east of the Netherlands and Belgium from Germany. The large abundance of prey here is causing a bit of an explosion of their population and the continuing creation of new packs.
2. Problem is, that wolves (especially the younger more inexperienced ones) will choose easy prey when given the opportunity because evolution teaches not to waste an easy meal and modern sheep (bred for meat and wool) are completely helpless, so are ponies and many other smaller herbivores or even certain larger ones.
3.This has been used by hunters and the agri-lobby alike to fearmonger about wolves ("Oh no it's the monster of old coming to snatch your pets, kids and maybe....even you!😱").
4. This absolute 🦬💩 pun intended, has scared many Dutch people and also others to hate wolves and see them and conservation of nature as incompatible with modern human agriculture and life in these densily populated places.
5. Then there's the issue of overgrazing and the deterioration of Dutch nature reserves by pollution of all kinds and isolation. We have a massive amount of pollution in the Netherlands and Europe in general from way too much meat and dairy cultivation. Too much 💩 about 4 trillion kgs/year in the Netherlands alone. Which causes too much nitrates to get into the soil and acidiffication to kick and ruin trees, water and the methane ruins the air.
6. Plus, in this tiny country of 18 million humans, like everywhere housing and many other essential goods are hard to come by, which is tearing it apart at the seams. Making an argument for rewilding to regular people will have you be called an idiot, moron, dumb hippy or worse.
I regularly make this argument to the toughest of crowds so trust me on this one, Dutch people are to make things worse, as stubborn as a goat and will even tell you to F off if they don't feel like arguing, regardless of how good your points are. I'm not saying that we should give up but, it needs to be taken into account.
I completely agree. The wolf situation in this country (and in the rest of Europe) is very nuanced and complicated. However I do believe that it is possible to change peoples stigmas on coexisting with apex predators, it just needs time (and for the older generations to die off unfortunately). For example in rural villages in India, the people still appreciate apex predators like tigers and leopards even though they kill their livestock and sometimes even their friends and family. They’re aware that we are the ones expanding into them, and they have as much of a right to be there as we do (if not more).
The notion that wolves are dangerous to people is indeed bullshit, since they rarely attack us and would rather keep a distance (unless people are being stupid and handing them food like in NL). And as for the killing of livestock it also isn’t a valid argument, the government compensates any confirmed losses and it is also really easy to prevent killings simply by adding guard animals (like kangal dogs and even donkeys) into the herds.
I believe that even in NL, we will see the acceptance of wolves (probably never bears but that’s ok) into the little nature we have left.
Hundreds of millions of people could go vegan overnight and it would have almost no effect whatsoever on environmental pollution.
Great video! Maybe some day there wil be wild Elephants in Europe again.
Wouldn’t that be amazing! Let’s see if Colossal keep their word with reviving mammoths…
I don’t know if there is enough wild lands left there for that to ever happen
@@PNWhiker-r1v30 by 30 talks about how countries need to make room for more natural areas. Of course as it is political its mostly talks and wishful thinking for the future. But who knows… maybe the future of the worlds ecosystems looks brighter. All we can do is hope, pray, speak up and vote!
@@PNWhiker-r1v For small herds 10-20 there would be.
@@martinpindur4610 is there though? Where would that be. Elephant herds have ranges that span over 2 million acres in the wild. And that goes in any direction including peoples property. In a fenced wild life park sure but never truly wild.
Amazing video
Thank you so much :)
Thank you for this video! A very interesting issue!
In the sagas of ancient greeks there is the saga of the Nemean Lion, which was killed by Heracles. The historians and biologists assume, that this saga is a rememberance at the last European lions which were wiped out in the early Bronze Age in the Balkan Peninsula. Even the ancient Romans saw a lot of European animal species which don't exist anymore. The European forest elephant (Palaeoloxodon antiquus) which was taller than the todays African elephant was wiped out 11700 years ago. This elephant species survived the former subspecies of Humans, but the current hybrid Human species of mostly Homo sapiens x neanderthalensis and some other Human subspecies, it couldn't survive also at the end of the last glacial period the life conditions for the European forest elephant became very good in big parts of Europe... if there wouldn't have been a terrible apex predator...
At least at the end of the ice age, America still had millions of bison to fill the numbers of large herbivores
Indeed, there were also wild equines in north america up until relatively recently, much of its ecology was very similar to that of Eurasia at the time.
Well done Netherlands, so populated, so little land, yet so so much given for rewilding. As an Irish person, I am so frustrated.
I believe that the next area where this sort of rewilding will spread to is to the British isles. People over there are already so passionate about the movement and have been doing the best they can to support it. I mean people are even taking about introducing wolves and lynx to combat the overpopulation of deer.
There’s hope over there too, just keep advocating and change will come.
Sick video!
Thank you!
Interesting video!
Thanks!
I Like the Evolution of the Horses in North America.
🐎🇺🇸🥛🍟🏞️🌈🪐💙⭐️❤️🎶🛻
Horses are pretty awesome, i’ll make a video on their evolution for sure.
a very nice video
Many many thanks :)
Cool channel
Hello, FtF, nice video. I suppose you are Dutch, just like me, but because I am not sure, let´s write in English. A question, were in the Netherlands do you live? The dune scape and the use of horses to control forest growth makes me wonder: the Veluwe, one of the Frisian islands? As for a future subject, maybe some more about the Oostvaarder Plassen and the controversy - how to control a population explosion of the herbivores (followed by mass starvation) when there are no big carnivores. Your opinion, the pro´s and contras.
Hello! I am not Dutch but have lived here most my life. I live in The Hague, so the horses that I filmed were from the Meijendel dunes. And yes doing research on this video I saw a ton of articles critiquing the Oostvardersplassen due to the unregulated reproduction of the grazers. To be honest, I think that one way to manage these grazers is to cull then and sell their meat as “wild” meat. This also gives another economic incentive to rewilding and makes it more appealing to the public.
@@FossilsToForests Thanks for the answer. I share your opinion about culling. It is a a more animal friendly approach of meat production than our bioindustry ( a good life and a quick death) and makes rewilding more economic sustainable (together with tourism). (Answer in English, for non-Dutch speakers interested in this conversation). Good luck with the channel.
It would be very interesting to make a video about why our culture is so afraid of nature and life in general and how nature conservation depends on this understanding to change our culture.
Absolutely love that idea! I’ll definitely consider making a video about that. If we are to successfully rewild our land, we need to rewild our hearts and minds
Restoring the former greatness of Europe is a wonderful undertaking, however, while watching this video I have some concerns, hopefully they are unfounded and someone can explain it to me. Grazing megafauna is undoubtedly a powerful tool to gradually make Europe wilder, but what about predators ? There are not many species in Europe right now that can prey on tauros and wild horses. Sure there are wolves, lynxes and bears, but wolves and lynxes can only hunt cubs or singles due to their small size, and bears are very scarce. Would this lack of predators lead to a population boom of grazing animals, which would lead to further degradation of the landscape? As in Scotland, for example, where huge herds of deer prevent the landscape from recovering from the damage caused by livestock grazing.
This is a great question and solid argument. Although wolves are probably capable of taking down tauros (wolves hunt bison in herds in NA), and certainly horses; I think populations of grazing herbivores that are released into nature reserves for the sake of habitat restoration, should actually be controlled by culling and carefully monitoring the population of herbivores.
For example, in the Netherlands the highland cattle and deer that are released into reserves, are killed and then their bodies are sold as wild meat. This also creates an economic incentive for megafauna rewilding.
@@FossilsToForests Thank you very much for your reply ! I have never heard of such a practice as in the Netherlands, it is indeed a great way, albeit a bit “artificial”
Hallo, ikben persoonlijk van belgie en ben heel gefacineerd door dit. Ikzou graag willen meehelpen aan deze restoration. Nemen ze mense aan ? 😅
I’m not aware if Belgium has similar rewilding projects to those here. If there are i’m sure you could contact them to ask how you can help.
the rewilding of the Oostvaardersplassen has stopped. The deer and the horses have been moved or shot. Their numbers got too large and the plants suffered. We had the choice between letting them starve or removing them. It is still a bird reserve though.
There are still horses and deer at the plassen, just a lot less.
I probably should’ve mentioned in my video that the unregulated reproduction of these grazers also had negative consequences for the ecology and wellbeing. But since then the staatsbosbeheer have managed their numbers by culling.
The forests in modern Europe are not ancient, they are mostly planted monoculture pine/spruce that are intensely managed. In the time when the Romans encountered the Germanic tribes they described those parts of Europe as densely wooded, but the environment was completely different. A thousand years ago Scandinavia would be covered by deciduous trees, now its pretty much completely gone. Europe used to have a massive biodiversity. Even if it was entirely covered by old broadleaf forest, this would be much closer to its natural state.
By the time of the Roman empire there would have been old growth deciduous forests yes. But those forests were not naturally there before the megafaunal extinction at the end of the pleistocene.
Central, southern and eastern Europe have much more nutrion rich soil then Africa.
Same areas in Europe when left alone have more rain, have a more humid climate generaly then Africa
Like flood forest in Eastern Europe, and the many rivers and lakes of Britain and Germany.
We have some savanna areas left mainly in parts of Europe, but they are not very torny or tree less.
So a dryer savanna like som areas of Africa is not Europe like.
Europe was a very rich continent before humans, it`s not natural for Europe to have less then Asia or Africa.
I know, i studying paleontology and zoologi alike. (many animal species died at the beginning of the ice age, but in contrast to plants a huge amount of the mega fauna died in late pleistocen after human arrival including almost every fauna on untouched islands.
I also have seen into the complex picture of european flora. (many plant species died in the beginning of the ice ages, but almost no one died in the late pleistocen. )
I am positiv to rewilding, building up a better fauna complex with predators.
If you fenced in bigger predators like lions, hyenas and lepards and megafauna like indian elephant (for wolly mammoth) and some of the extinct antilopes like waterbuck in greater nature reserves like Chernobyl it would work. (pity we have to only have that form of natural function in Europe behind bars.)
Without predators it would be massiv overgrazing (like with livestock all over Europe)
Ironical wolfs, lynx and bears was never the apex predators in Europe.
I agree that Europe is one massive rewilding opportunity just waiting for the reintroduction of its native megafauna. However I do not think we will ever be able to reintroduce animals such as elephants, lions or hyenas even into closed nature reserves. Europe is simply too small to allow for these extremely active animals to live, they need vast amounts of uninterrupted land if they are to find enough food and territory. Even areas such as the Chernobyl exclusion zone are probably not big enough to sustain a population of elephants (that’s not even considering that asian elephants likely have completely different diets to that of wooly mammoths).
The populations of large herbivores would likely be managed by humans and the apex predators that we still have. In fact, humans having to do the hunting and controlling of the populations of aurochs, wisent, deer and so forth; would actually give another economic incentive to rewilding. You can do rewilding, control the populations and then sell the animal produce as wild meat.
I want mammoths 😢
Don’t we all…
If ice age megafauna were to be resurrected will Siberia and northern Canada be the ideal places to populate them with ?
Those areas make great rewilding regions mainly because of their isolation, size and being generally "intact" compared to Europe. However I don't think that Canada and Siberia are inherently more habitable for Pleistocene megafauna than other parts of Eurasia climatically speaking. For example large areas of Eastern and Northern Europe have been suggested to be perfect environments for the rewilding of both carnivorous and herbivorous megafauna.
romania still have virgin forests and wild animals as wolves wild horses boars deers etc
The forests of the Carpathian mountains are indeed one of the final strongholds of Europes wilderness.
Öhm... I recommend to you to take a 2-week camping holiday in the Bavarian Hochwald. GLHF
I’ll look into it!
So in Europe humans made forests, but why no forests in Africa? And why no forests in East / Soth Europe but savana like dry grasslands, no humans were there?
Maybe it the main reason was … climate ?
You raise a good point. In Africa the expansion of forests was kept in check by the megafauna that we didn’t kill off. In East and South Europe there very much are more forests than there would’ve been in the past. Some steppe environments were kept able to survive by sheer luck, but most of the steppe grassland environment was lost.
Maybe rhinos and togers
Wouldn’t that be awesome? Though it’s a bit iffy fitting such large and demanding animals into the little space Europe makes for nature.
This is just romanticism of tales of the past, Im sure thered be plenty of people saying it should return to the old dark forests if the reverse was true as well. There is no "natural state" everything is always changing. I wish a more serious discussion were to be made in the video instead of just ignoring the biggest event happening at the end of the pleistocene, the ice melted and changed every landscape throughout most of Europe.
At least europe still has the wison. Aka the european buffalo.
We are luckily enough to have an increasing population of wisent indeed! I saw them for myself not too long ago and they are truly imposing animals
Yeah, a great point to consider... My homeland Latvia has experienced a steady growth of wildife during past three decades. To the fringe that the number of the European brown bears has risen to many dosens and it's a question of time to allow hunting them... otherwise they're already making harm to farmsteads, lifestock etc. Concerning grazing beasts, Latvia has re-established flocks of deer, horses, old species of semi wild bovines - so there is a European Serengeti almost everywhere in the Latvian countryside - just go the forest and see the footprint or poo of elks, wild boar, lynx, foxes, wolves etc. 😁
How can you say it was mostly human induced when most of the extinctions happened at once during extreme climate change. Kinda misleading
Many scientists agree that the end pleistocene extinctions were caused by human activity. The extinctions did not happen in one go, it spanned over 50,000 years. There’s a huge bias against terrestrial megafauna, aquatic and smaller organisms were not nearly as effected. The extinction of many of these species is strongly correlated with the arrival of our species in the area. Also depending on how long genus Homo had been coexisting with the native species, the extinctions were more or less severe. In Asia and Africa, much less megafauna went extinct than in the America’s or Australia, which is evidence that the ecosystems that were less adapted to human predation were the ones most affected.
@FossilsToForests that's disingenuous to say the least lol. You sound like you just hate humans
No much evidence of large human populations at that time. Humans activity was a factor sure but theory on the extinction's has shifted towards climate change. Any change in a system affects the larger and less adaptable animals first.
If i’m not mistaken, there is recent evidence to suggest that it was in fact primarily due to human pressures that causes this extinction event. The climate likely played a factor, but these species have been surviving through glacial/interglacials for millions of years. The likelihood that they went extinct because the weather changed once again seems unlikely to me. And considering how many animals humans would hunt (we find mammoth kill sites with dozens of individuals which is a lot for slow reproducing mammoths), it would be more logical to assume that the reason they went extinct was due to our species.
@@FossilsToForests There is also recent theories to refute, it is an ongoing debate.
Just in the numbers game. 300, 000 to 700, 000 people is tiny. There is nothing to indicate there was ever any more than that in Australia. That is very little pressure in a vast land, even with fire use.
The same would go for the Mammoth habitat. Many of them would never even have encountered a human. Were is the evidence for all these alleged masses of people.
Sure the climate swung previously but there were still some extinctions related to that. Does not cut the mustard for me sorry.
@@FossilsToForests but i have to say the megafauna and humans in europe seems to have been coexisting for nearly 20k years and the population estimate for humans is from 100,000 to 400,000,with that kind of population and the size of eurasia i really am struggling to see humans wiping out the mega fauna.And the extinction events in europe and north america were very quick with it only spanning some 3k years
The younger dryas did probably play a part in the extinction. But looking at the correlation between the arrival of humans to different parts of the world and the loss of its megafauna, it’s difficult to ignore the destructive effect that we tend to have on the environment.
There also seems to be a correlation between how adapted the local wildlife would have been to human predation, and how much of an impact they suffered. Africa and Eurasia have more megafauna left than the new world and certainly oceania. When humans showed up we brought extinction.
@@FossilsToForests Yeah not saying they did not affect anything. There is a few evidences like significant quantities of flightless bird eggs, found to be cooked on fires.
May have been a bit harder to get to the Quinkana eggs though. That might have been a bit to risky for an omelette. 😨