It’s a weird flex to say “Dolphins built an offense to make Tua successful and a coaching staff that rehabbed him from the Flores era. Tua should be thankful.” That’s like saying “I took my car to the mechanic to get fixed and they didn’t destroy the axel. I should be thankful.” You shouldn’t brag about being competent at your job. Comparing yourself to the lowest common denominator does not lead to greatness.
Whether you think Tua isn't worth it to pay or not is irrelevant. The market is the market. The more you delay the more expensive it will be. Grier has failed to understand this concept for the previous 4 contract and choose to sign splashy contracts. Sign Byron Jones then had to pony up to repay X. Delayed signing CW. Delayed signing Rob Hunt but signed AJ. Delayed signing Waddle before Devonta Smith, so relented in the end to a higher contract. What was Jerod Goff before he came into the Lions system. What has Burrows and Lawrence done before and after extended? And now comes Jordan Love. Do you go to the Supermarket to argue and scream that groceries are too expensive and say it's not worth it? Gas too expensive? Do you want guarantees of freshness written into your receipt? You either take it or leave it. Buy or walk away. Walking away means you have to draft or sign another big contract QB or settle with Jacoby Brissett. Yet, Tua has continued to improve under McD and last year lead the league for QBs. Now, people find excuses as Tua being a system QB. I wonder how much Brock Purdy is worth? Ironic how if you are bad you suck, and if you are good you suck.
The market is the market is the phrase used when teams start following each other like sheep. There’s nothing wrong with what Miami is doing, he hasn’t shown he can carry them at a lower cap number so why should they be so quick give him a contract at a higher cap number where they will have to strip talent off the team to accommodate his contract? If he balls out next year, it’ll cost them more but at least they’ll feel more certain about their decision. If he sucks you move off of him. More teams should be following this approach, they’ve just deluded themselves into thinking they always have to pay a QB with a drop of talent top dollar, which is how you get bullshit like Daniel Jones on a massive deal and Dak Prescott wanting $60m a year.
there's too many people who don't fully understand football, so they think what QBs like Tua do isn't as valuable as physical tools that are more easily measured. i constantly suggest to commenters to read Pat Kirwan and David Seigerman's book Take Your Eye Off the Ball: How to Watch Football by Knowing Where to Look.
@@TheRealMichaelP That is exactly my point. So far Grier hasn't been able to provide a replacement. He hasn't done it with CW or Rob Hunt. Sure, he has traded away 1st round picks for Tyreek, Chubbs and Ramsey. Chop Robinson is TBD. Grier doesn't subscribe to building from inside out, instead going for flashy picks such as pass rushers, WR, or CB. Even Chargers devoid of offensive weapons chose to prioritize OL. Even Grier's 2nd round picks are suspect, going for backups instead of other teams.
@@ps50433 you forget that the NFL is a copycat league that is filled with analytics but yet running similar playbooks. When one team crops up, someone will devise a counter that everyone copies. Right now, every team looks to find the next Mahomes that can extend plays. Yet, they forget the fundamentals like accuracy and reading the defense. Before it was finding canon arms ie. Josh Allen and Herbert. They forget about Brady and Manning with noodle arms. When you say Tua hasn't shown he can't carry the team so you say he is responsible for all the injuries we had last year? Tua lead the league in most top QB metrics last year, yet Tua is responsible for the team. So what does the HC and all the coordinators do?
Last 3 games of last year: Ravens- Loss; Bills- Loss (and lost Division); Chiefs- Playoff Loss. Tus throws under 200 yards last 2 games and 237 vs Ravens in a blowout loss. Tua also throw 5 INTS in those 3 games.
Facts !! Tua sucks against teams above 500. Tua can't read beyond his first option read. Countless times receivers are wide open, because he can't read the defense. He brakes down when hill is controlled. tua isn't worth no where near market value. He hasn't proven anything !
@@SynjynB The first 2 of those 3 games were without Mostert or Waddle plus a significantly banged up O-Line. You know who else doesn't look great when pass protection is bad? Mahomes in games with a PFF pass block grade under 60 in 2023: vs Eagles: 17 points, 43 attempts, 177 yards, 71.6 passer rating vs Jets: 23 points, 30 attempts, 203 yards, 63.6 passer rating He went 1-1 with 3 TD, 3 INT in those games, with the Jets win being by 3 points and requiring controversial ref calls/no-calls going against the Jets to happen. Tua played 7 games with a sub-60 pass block grade. In those games he went 2-5, with the Jets game the only one that was a comfortable win (Cowboys being the other win). The defense allowed 20+ points in 6 of those games and 28+ in 4 of them. In the 11 games Tua had a 60+ he went 9-2, with the only losses being Chiefs and Bills. The defense allowed 20+ points in 4 of those and 28+ in just 1. The issue is that 5 of the 7 playoff opponent games happened with terrible blocking. Not a single one of them had more than 3 starting O-Linemen healthy
@@smudgeous4068 I agree that Miami was suffering from major injuries on defense. Losing pretty much your whole LB core (edge rushers) was a major factor is losing at the end of the season. Still, Tua played poorly in the big games last year. No excuses here. With that said, Miami has no choice but to sign him. Why? There is no one else better Miami can bring in. Miami's 2 backups are garbage IMHO and the only "decent' QB free agent is Ryan Tannehill. Ryan is not the answer, but at least he can probably do decent with this race track of a squad.
I hope Tua wises up an walks at the end of the year then all you fake ass fans can see he was the system that worked. He deserves better than what the dolphins or their fans can give him.
I’d pay Tua in the ballpark of what he wants. But they could also pull what the Ravens did with Lamar. Let him play this year and then put the transition tag on him. Let other teams tell Tua what his value is across the league. Either 1) he’ll get an offer that the Dolphins could match or let him walk and get two first round picks, or 2) Tua comes back to the negotiating table knowing what the market really is.
Question specifically for Dan. Please let me know who in the existence of the NFL ISN'T a system QB. You create a system that compliments your QBs style of play. Think about that.
Also: A player's value has less to do with what another team would pay than it is about how much he's worth to YOUR team. We went 20 years with mediocre/average QBs because it's difficult to fill that role. If you decide you don't want to pay more than you think he's worth, dust off Cleo Lemon and see how well we play with him under center with all of the toys that Tua's enjoying right now.
Why do they also act as if Jared Goff hasn't been to the Superbowl once and led the LIONS to one close game away from getting to the Superbowl? Goff is really good, if not a great quarterback. People just put these players in narrative boxes and never let them out.
@roberttammaro7305 no one should want that. The point is no one should give these front offices the benefit of the doubt until they've more than earned it.
@@donjohnson3195he's better but I wouldn't say he performs in the playoffs. He was bad against the 49ers last year in that playoff game and only scored 3 points in the superbowl
The concussion Tua suffered vs. Bengals 2 seasons ago is concerning. A "blindside" big hit can not be avoided. Also, he can not be a running QB when needed due to risk. Late season performances, when Fins should have won the division, were subpar. Just rewatch the 2nd half meltdown vs Titans at home, on prime time. Tua could not answer back with a scoring drive to seal the deal. That was the loss that gave Bills life.
Bills gave bills life by winning when they had to that what great teams do the dolphins are a fraud to team and don't even belong in the conversation with great teams at all the bills keep exposing dolphins and tua Miami ain't on the bills level at all
Ryan Tannehill made it to the AFC championship game, last QB the Dolphins drafted to win a playoff game. I'd bet Tua will be the next Dolphins drafted QB to win a playoff game, whether or not he's still playing for Dolphins when he does.
That world doesn’t exist. You can keep waiting. As a GM or coach you will be fired holding out for a great quarterback to give great quarterback money to.
@@SkylineOwnz That was what the team who planned on having Tyreek and Connor Williams all week in practice looked like when both were suddenly removed during the game. A better look at what Tua looks like without Tyreek was the following week's game against the Jets, as Tyreek was out and the team planned on Waddle being a true #1 all week. Result was 30-0 victory over the Jets, with Tua completing 87.5% of his passes and posting a 119.4 passer rating against a top 3 defense. Edit: it's worth mentioning that the run game didn't bail him out either: Mostert had one rush of 18 yards but went 14 for 24 yards on his other carries. Achane had one rush of 10 but went 8 for 22 yards on his other carries. Wilson had 5 yards in 2 rushes. In total that's less than 80 yards on 26 carries, and outside of those 2 longest rushes that's 24 rushes averaging 2.125 yards per carry
@@smudgeous4068that part, they always wanna bring up Tennessee but fail to mention chubb had an unsportsmanlike that game Tennessee a first down and a huge momentum swing, they don't wanna mention the drops in the end zone by Tyreek, they don't wanna mention how Miami was gashing Tennessee on the ground but Flores wanted to have Tua throw it 40+ times It's all Tua
Wrong! No leverage at all. Miami can tag him for two straight years and he won’t be the highest paid QB and there’s nothing he can do about it. Why give him 250m over 5 years when you can tag him after this season and then again after the next. That’s 3 years if they want him. Plus he could get hurt and a one year deal at a time is better for Miami then a 5 year contract.
@donjohnson3195 and you saw how bad he was that game against the titans when hill was hurt. I don't understand the tua stans. He's clearly jimmy g all over again. How good did jimmy look on the raiders? Put tua on the raiders he will look bad too
Now we are starting to hear ALOT of people saying pay tua just to pay him without real data or reason. That thought process is the reason we are the definition of insanity now in my opinion
The dolphins finally have a legitimate team, if we lose Tua we go back to irrelevancy. The Dolphins don't understand the importance of great players vs mediocre players.
Dan saying Gardner minshew.. nah.. Teddy B was really solid before coming here and was handpicked by the genius coach and how did he look with all the weapons and the easy system ? Y’all invite me so I can be a fantasy Gm on this show 😂
“We also seen what the team looks like without Tua”. Have we? Or have we seen what this team looks like with back up QBs. Ppl kill me with the “Tua is one of a few QBs that can run this offense” lol
Well, Jacoby Brissett is a starter going into this season for a different team. Tua was inarguably better when they both played on the same team under Flores and the 3 OC/play callers, at the same time. Supposedly Teddy Bridgewater was going to take Tuas job as the starter before week 8 of 2022, because he was going to out play him on the field, according to all of his critics, including an active NFL head coach, Sean Peyton, who said exactly that on cowherds tv show, and everyone agreed with him. Until Tua came out that season and beat the Ravens with an insane 4th quarter comeback. Where he outscored Lamar and the Ravens by 28-3 in the 4th quarter alone, throwing for 6 TD and like 500 yards, and turned around the next week and beat the Bills at home, and then we all watched Bridgewater step in the following week when he got whip slammed onto his head by a DT. Then Teddy loses that game, turned around the next game and gets hurt on the first play in the game and he has to be replaced by Skylar Thompson, who gets absolutely smoked in that game by Zack Wilson and the Jets. Followed by a game where Skylar starts against the Vikings and he gets hurt early and Teddy has to come in and finish that game, getting absolutely throttled by the Vikings. Then the following week against Mike Tomlin and during Kenny Picketts rookie season when people were convinced he was going to be the Steelers next qb for at least the near future, and in his first game back Tua beats the Steelers, starting a 5 game win streak. And at the end of the season Tua was torching Green Bat on Christmas, putting up 300 yards by halftime of that game. But at some point just after halftime of that game he had an awkward fall after getting tripped up and got concussed without knowing it. Though it became pretty apparent in his play after it happened because he threw 3 straight back to back to back INT to give up the lead he built in the first half and lose the game. Then starts noticing the symptoms the following morning, and his season was done. At this point there are two games left. The Pats and the season finale against the Jets. Skylar once again had to come in and finish the game for Teddy, who got hurt yet again, and Skylar lost to Mac Jones, Belichick and the Pats, something Tua has never done and now won’t even have to worry about ever doing. And the final game against the Joe Flacco led Jets, was the only game that season, that Tua didn’t start, where the starting QB actually managed to finish the game and barely escaped with the only game that was won by anyone other than Tua. It was a 9-6 field goals only game, until the Jets tried the dumbest hook and ladder play imaginable in the final couple seconds of the game and someone tossed the ball backwards into the endzone and got downed with it for a safety after time had expired in the game, make it a final score of 11-6, where 5 field goals and a safety were the only s ores in the game. And people seem to have an illusion that Skylar was actually even serviceable in the playoff game against Buffalo, because the defense scored TDs, had several takeaways deep on the bills side of the field. But anyone with eyes and 25% of a functioning brain, who actually watched that game, should e easily identified that the QB was the problem in that game. From terrible throws, to not being capable of seeing the field clearly, and not trusting anything that they were looking at, and then having wide open grass in front of them and continuously double clutching over and over until he either got sacked or finally did decide to throw the ball and made horrible throw after horrible throw. Finishing with a 40% completion%, multiple INT, and single handedly sank any hope of winning the game in the final seconds, because he couldn’t execute just calling out the play to the offense on time on a 4th & 1. So they waste the final time out, gets the play call from Mike during the timeout, turns right around and takes a delay of game penalty, knocking them back to 4th & 6. Which was the final nail in the coffin of that game because he likely wouldn’t have converted that first down, even if the bills had only left two of their players on the field for it. He probably would’ve been confused and taken another delay of game trying to figure it out, just to then throw an INT if he ever did manage to get a the damn ball snapped after that.
@@indade lol so the only options are few or common. Stop it. The point is this is MMD system that he formed around Tua not the other way around. Have your ever stop to think there is more to MMD system that Tua limits……exactly lol
I don't even want Tua for what he's currently making - $25 million. I don't think he's worth even that. Get through the year and look for somebody better. He's got too low of a ceiling.
As a dolphins fan I hope the bills keep having the success they have had with Josh Allen. All them stats but no rings not even a MVP or a 1st team all pro.
@@Johnny-nh1itYou know what you're absolutely right about Josh Allen has no super bowl rings and no MVPs but he's still better then Tua tell me I'm lying so you can get roasted in the comments lol😂😂😂
@@jeromejasper8947 ok he’s better than Tua now what? Does that get him closer to winning a SB or beating the chiefs in the playoffs? If being better than another player is the goal then at least you have something to hang your hat on.
Can Goff or Menshew get the ball out in under 2.5 seconds accurately??? The o-line is not that good thats the problem. Goff and menshew would be running for their lives in a panic
Has Lamar Jackson win when it counts? He’s 2-4 in the playoffs. It’s not Tua it’s a combination of injuries, bad play calling and running into The chiefs
Correction needed here. Almost no one thought Miami should have taken Herbert IMMEDIATELY. That reaction came after the first year in the NFL was completed. Go ahead. Please find me one person who immediately after the pick was saying Miami got it wrong. You'll only find one. But he's all clickbait so I don't care for cowherds opinion. Cowherd also a month prior was saying Tua was a can't miss pick.
He is NOT WORTH A TOP 5 DEAL. Make him prove it on the 5th. If he can’t get us over the hump on a rookie deal, what makes us think he can do so when he is sucking up a giant portion of the cap???
@@kevinorellanaable If Tua gets $55m, there's still over $200m left for the rest of the team in 2024's salary cap and more every year afterward. Saying there's nothing left is an exaggeration. That $55m would be only the 9th largest cap percentage hit at time of signing, well under 25%. Josh Allen's extension several years ago was substantially higher despite its current yearly total looking like a relative bargain. Also don't forget about injuries: if half of that $200m is injured and sitting on the sidelines at the end of the season, what good is that doing the team? Tua had 0 snaps all season with a fully healthy offense around him. His 5 starting O-Line members were healthy for 4.07% of the season (43/1057 snaps) and in that single game they all played together the offensive without Waddle put up the most offensive points, TDs, and total yards in the history of the league. He had MORE than enough around him on offense when provided even league average pass protection. When protection falls apart, every offense struggles. Even Mahomes couldn't put up 10 points against the Bucs when it happened to him despite putting up one of the highest effort QB performances I've ever seen and still lost by 3 scores despite having prime Kelce, Tyreek, and Andy Reid calling the plays.
The Dolphins are right to be hesitant to pay Tua, because all Tua is going to do is lead the Dolphins to another divisional round playoff loss in a cold weather city.
Tua can't win in cold games. He loses against above .500 teams. He pad his statistics against bad teams. The Dolphins has the third easiest schedule last year. Tua gets injured too. Make him prove he can win. Tua seems to have to reinvent himself every year. All too much to pay him now. Make him prove he can win.
anyone else sick of these massive contracts? or how about how they constantly get praised by much of the sports media (especially former players) if i stop watching the NFL, it'll be these ludicrous contracts. yes, the owners make money.. BUT.. ALL the costs get passed down to the consumer.. increased cost of tickets (and food/beer at games)... increased cost of NFL apparel... increased amount of commercials in games-- for networks to pay for tv deals... and more games on other streaming sources--- playoff games on streaming only-- really!? lets all be happy. dude will see more money in one year than your family will see in generations. lets celebrate that.
@@alexistorres2425 In the 4 games that he played not missing 2+ starting offensive linemen, he showed it. Most total yards of offense and most offensive TDs and points in the history of the NFL in the only one of those 4 where all 5 starters played. Once the run and pass protection tanked from missing 2/3/4 starters, their offense was a shell of its former dominant self. No other postseason QB finished anywhere near his #31 ranked pass block win rate line, and no QB in the league had a pocket fall apart faster than he did. Also unlike in 2022, the defense was also severely banged up and not able to bail out the offense at the end of the season. If the 2022 and 2023 defenses were flipped, Miami wouldn't have beaten the Jets with the 11 points they scored week 18 and would have finished 8-9 and out of the playoffs. The 2023 Dolphins wouldn't have lost to the Texans (plus possibly the Eagles, first Chiefs game, and been closer vs the Bills in the first game) and would have taken the division. They would have faced the Steelers at home instead of traveling to KC
Jameis Winston in 2019. Also tua’s passing by yard total is the lowest passing yard leader total since Brady in 2017 and the 2nd lowest since Brees in 2006.
@@idawg7332 … Ahh yes Winston. As for Tua’s yardage total, what does that have to do with it? If the other “elite” guys couldn’t pass for more what’s that tell about defensive play last season? Also, that’s like me pointing out Dan Marino only surpassed his total twice in his entire HOF career. Side bar … Winston was a pretty good passer he was just an INT machine lol. Not sure why some of the QB guru’s never took a chance on fixing him … must have had an attitude problem.
If the Dolphins offense is to advance to legit playoff threat good, listen to this. It's no longer a matter of what they get from Tua. It's what they give to and provide for Tua that will determine the fate of this offense. That means a lot more than fast receivers.
The average player is not a QB. The average player is a teams 2nd safety, a left guard, a nose tackle. In a literal sense, the only type of players less frequently found on any teams roster, than starting caliber QBs, is quality kickers and punters. Every other player on a roster has multiples, besides starting QBs, kickers &, punters. And there are a total of zero people who know even a tiny amount about the sport who would suggest otherwise. And the only players at less risk of concussions than QBs, are also kicker & punters. QBs are typically getting concussed. Tua did for the first time in 2022, and was fortunate enough to have it happen twice in one season. He’s played football for a long time, without that being a problem, until the one season it happened twice. Then, immediately following that season, he had his best season statistically as a pro and health wise since highschool. And him having extra weight had nothing to do with him staying healthy. Him choosing to get the ball out of his hand faster and not keep trying to save bad plays and putting himself in bad situations that kept biting him in the ass. It took a while, but he finally accepted that him trying to make the hero play is worth significantly less than having his ass healthy and out there on the field for the next play.
Tanenbaum was right, Herbert was the Pick. Flores (not counting the "Tanking for Tua" year) won about as much as McDaniel (with lesser talent). The '20-'21 teams were good but Tua underperformed in the Playoff clinching Games (Skylar didn't play great but still managed to win the '22 Playoff clinching game). I'll give you '23, though they blew their Division lead. Goff made it to 2 Championship games and 1 Super Bowl. Dan is right.
Everyone has to prove something as an athlete. I’m skeptical of every player. The problem is, the great players rise up in the face of adversity and doubt and prove who they are. Tua supporters just always have excuses. I doubted Kobe, Mahomes, and a whole list of other players. You don’t just get crowned the guy for what you didn’t in high school or college. Whenever those players I just named were backed into a corner, the rose to the occasion and that’s what gained my respect for those players and why they became some of my favorite players to watch. EVERYONE has to prove they are the guy. Tua has yet to do this. So , he’s not disrespected. Y’all just want him to have respect that he hasn’t earned.
Derrick Carr got $40M/year. How much did Russ just cost the Broncos, with a contract he still has not, and never will play a single snap for the Broncos on, as he now gets paid by them to play for Steelers. Cousins got how much, after he tore his Achilles at 35+ years old? And by the way, Tua was always as good as he is today. What he didn’t have his first two season in the league, was a competent front office or a competent offensive coaching staff, and he was working with guys that all but 2 of are standing in the unemployment line as we speak today. And both of the remaining two guys who are active players in the NFL today, both also had their career best years in the NFL, with Tua, in a dog shit offensive system with 3 offensive coordinators in the same season in 2021, and the OC who was actively working against him in favor of Ryan Fitzpatrick in 2020. And you wonder why the team sucked. It wasn’t Tua. Tua couldn’t overcome a terrible roster, a front office that did nothing but work against you and an entire coaching staff who actively worked against him. No fucking QB on this planet could
@@Mattswfc14 and Trevor Lawrence got a 5 year extension on top of the two remaining years he had on his rookie deal, that the Jags can rip apart and toss in the can after either the first or second year of the 5 new years, and all the money that actually makes it a $55M/year annual value, comes after that point. Where they will have either already reworked the deal or added years on, before it gets to that point, if they haven’t ran it through the paper shredder already.
I bet S. Ross would gladly go after the Sanders father-son duo and the franchise will make even more money than now under McDaniel-Tua combo. I think its a good bet to make
It takes A Team to win,Dolphins can't pay high end prices for the best players on offense to help Tua a better QB, I see watching games Tua has not surpassed Win consistently the Better Teams, I believe Tua is an above average Qb at this moment. Tua should do as Wilkins Did ,Prove that you can win The better Teams consistently and playoff games.
I can solve this debate with one word. Height. If all that Tua has gone through, concussions, hips, hand, knee, foot....everything is exactly the same but he was 6'5", he would have been extended already and the media "experts" would be ranking him as a top 5-10 QB like Herbert is. Herbert hasn't won a playoff game either and has worse numbers. It's the height.
Tua can play in the sean Payton system he can play in the 49ers system and by the way if Tua played for the niners they would 2 Super Bowl rings by now . He can play in Minnesota and Green Bay they all run a some sort of west coast system.
so dumb. why do people penalize Tua for being a fit for his offense. Like Tom Brady was only good because he played the same system his entire career including in Tampa? Drew Brees was no good because he played in Saints system or he got paid?
In that same van, it makes me feel better that no matter who the Jets have, even AR, the dysfunction of that organization will result in football as usual in NY 🤣🤣👍
@@bigwaidave4865 oh I agree. Rodgers is a POS, has done absolutely NOTHING to prove that characterization wrong, and is apparently IN CHARGE of the Jets FO. Cuz we stupid.
I think what you guys are missing on Tua’s value is Desperation. I think there are desperate teams out there that would overpay for a QB. Look at what the Browns did. I think the Raiders are desperate and have an owner desperate and “dumb” enough to overpay. Maybe the by the end of next season we see some other teams become desperate enough to pay a lot. They might shortsighted front offices but there are always teams that do big splash deals like that.
If you think the Bills, Ravens, and 49ers did the SAME thing as the Dolphins last year cause they all lost to the Chiefs I can’t help you. One of those teams was totally non competitive….the others got clipped in the end by an all time QB/HC combo.
If he goes to Pittsburgh they just hand the ball off with him?!?!? what are we talking about??? he can't throw better than Picket?!? The shade this man gets is out of this world
Jared Goff is 4-4 in playoffs and been to a Super Bowl. He's not a peer of Goff. Enough of the "led the league in passing yards". He sucks vs teams over .500. Can't win a game under 40 degrees. Look up the stats and stop parroting the fan boys.
Tua is not worth that top money. He wouldn't get top dollar as a free agent period. Tua plays horrible against good teams and can't play in cold weather. McDaniel created that offense to hide Tua many faults.
Tuas fault is that he just isnt nimble and fleet footed enough to extend plays . In games where defenses get physical and bump a reciever and throw off timing etc , tua and most quarterbacks etc just dont have it either only a select few . The dolohins , this year , last year and the year before have spent so much money certainly had the weaponry ,and injuries i do understand . But its always there collapse no matter who we have late season , thats why id rather see a big dull back to contril the clock and wear down a defense . Its very demoralising when you line up to run the ball , the defense even knows your gonna run the ball and you cant stop them , it may not be fan friendly or exciting like the pass game but less can aleo go wrong also
“If one of them is Goff, then it should be noted that Goff is being paid 53M” that’s because Goff did what Tua did and more with less of a supporting cast around him. Goff is better than Tua. You put Goff in Miami and Tua in Detroit, Miami is still in the playoffs and Detroit is not. The big thing with TLaw’s contract is how they structured it, he will never be above a 47M cap hit unless they don’t restructure after 2029. They have an out after 2029, so yes TLaw got paid but he did so in a way that it doesn’t hurt the team.
Skylar and Teddy won 1 game from a possible 7 😂 oh and they scored a total of 11points in that sole win against the jets. if thats all it takes to take a team to a playoff then….lol
Not true, Tua was on a 5 game losing streak prior to injury…Teddy loss the 6th….then we had a must-win vs the Jets to get in the playoffs..and Skylar won it so again….Skylar took us. Where’s the lie. Also, we both all know Tua never wins must-wins. 😢
Why do people act asif Lamar Jackson didn't quarterback the Ravens to a blowout playoff win vs the Texans and a one touchdown loss to the team in the AFC Championship game that went on to win the Superbowl as if he was 1 and done in the playoffs. Burrow lost to them the year before and Allen as well. What makes Jackson losing to them any worser than the rest of them.
"fair market value" i hate talking heads who just spew buzz words. The entire reason he doesn't have a contract is because clearly the two sides disagree on what his market value is.
He hasn’t been disrespected he hasn’t earned it! 1 solid year does not justify a big payday he doesn’t get this on another team period im a dolphins lifer but Dan is right he’s the best option for them at the moment make him play this year get a deep playoff push and next year get your bag he’s not that “dude” to be sitting out of camp he need all the chemistry he can get
26:40 Pretty sure Mike was the HC for the playoff game IN BUFFALO with rookie Skylar Thompson making his 7th start. Bills put up 34pts. 🐬 lost by 3 & had a legit shot to upset. I know it's all about Ws but McDiesel is a friggin stud
Maybe we shouldn't have been paying more wide receivers and should've shored up the offensive line. Then maybe a mediocre QB could keep the ship afloat.
-Shout out to blind homerism from Greg Cote as usual. -In a league where the franchise tag exists, why would you ever lock yourself into a long term deal on a QB who sucked against playoff teams in the year where he was completely healthy? If McDaniel is the coach you think he is, let Tua walk and bring in someone else. -To Greg's point about Tua being a hot commodity in free agency next year which, again, is severely hampered by this cool little thing called the franchise tag: AFC teams: -Pittsburgh: Assuming neither Fields nor Wilson pan out and for some stupid reason, they forgo the draft to sign a QB with glaring issues. -Jets: Possible option if Rodgers retires. -Raiders: Pretty sure this isn't even possible due to cap reasons. NFC teams: -Giants: Again an option but just like the Steelers, why would they sign Tua when they could draft a rookie. -Seahawks: Possible if Geno flames out but again why sign someone comparable when the draft exists? -Saints: Just like with the Raiders, I'm pretty sure this is impossible cap wise. Not many options available and the ones that are don't make sense when the draft is right there.
Dolphins are already going to fall apart because they let Hunt van Ginkel and Wilkins go and if they lose Tua too it's just going to be that much worse. Tua is possibly the best QB in the NFL despite the nay sayers.
They’re saying that the Dolphins went to the playoffs in back to back season after not a long playoff drought before Tua got there. The assertion that that Tua is the reason for this. However, Tua has been there for 4 years, they only made the playoffs twice. So is it Tua? Bc, coincidentally, they made the playoffs the two years that McDaniel has been there
what are we talking about! tua can't put the team on his back and drive down the field when it matters! this is the difference in his worth! he has not had his moment yet
@@wonkascandyboy this team has been trending upwards every year since 2020 not signing the QB we built this team for would be putting us 5 years behind. McDaniel's play calling is every bit of the problem, him refusing to stick to the running game or force feeding Tyreek the ball is every bit of the problem, the hot garbage online that they refuse to fix is every bit of the problem. Tua has done nothing but win and improve year in and year out and now that it's his turn they don't wanna pay. This team about to fuck up and be back into purgatory if they don't pay that man
@@lamarbennett436 i think tyreek helped him a lot, also achande and mostert, and waddle. Without tyreek he didnt play so good and against good teams either But i respect your point
@@wonkascandyboy and Tua has helped tyreek a lot too but y'all dont want to talk about that, Tua torched a top 5 defense WITHOUT Tyreek yet yall dont want to bring that up. Tyreek blew that game vs the chiefs twice dropping touchdown passes and tumbling the ball away. yet nobody wants to talk about that. Pay that man so we can keep this thing moving.
There's no reason to pay Tua - at all. None. He isn't a good QB. He's under contract for this year. Play him. He does well. You Franchise Tag him and force him to do it again. If he does it again, then you sign him to a long term contract with the premium. If he doesnt, which he won't, you cut bait and move on and draft a rookie under a rookie contract instead of wasting 50m on an subpar QB. Yes - subpar, do not under-estimate the talent on that offense and what McDaniel system does for QBs.
Guarantee Tua will become a back up in the future. Grier realized he screwed up taking a top 5 qb that isn't a top 5 qb. His limitations are converted by the fisher price offense. Purdy was picked lady and is better.
The main problem is QBs are making too much money! They count for 1/4 of the salary cap think about that! I would rather have the #1 Defense a average QB not breaking the bank!!!!!
What 'deep dive'? Tua wants to be paid like he's already won a SuperBowl. He hasn't even won in the Playoffs yet. Is Tua an elite QB? That's an arguable issue since he's spent a third of his career riding pine. As the old saw goes 'The best ability is availability' and 'SQUISHY' is indeed a check box on the front of your personnel folder. And for those of you say 'that's not fair!' let me ask you this: Since when has the NFL been fair? You wanna ask Dan Marino about 'fair'? I'll bet he's got an opinion on it.... Does Tua deserve a good deal? Absolutely. Tua makes the 'Fins relevant BY HIMSELF. But he does NOT deserve to be the '60 million dollar man'. And the 'Fins can keep him for 'free' by tagging him for two more years anyway.
You should check your math. Even if you penalize Tua for not playing the games before he was named starter in his rookie season when the team had another starting QB, he has played in 77.9% of the games Miami has played since 2020. Even if you include every minute of every game he's left early with injuries (3 games, one was only for a couple of minutes), it doesn't add up to a third of his career.
For the record I have no issue with anything else you said, just sick of seeing the injuries constantly overblown for Tua. His first season his only missed game after being named starter was a thumb issue in November against the 0-11 Jets. He was listed as questionable and Fitz was available so he didn't play one game, no difference in impact to every QB who rests the final week of the season. 2021 had another 1-game absence in Nov with a middle finger fracture against the 1-8 Texans, in addition to the 3 weeks at the beginning of the season with broken ribs due to terrible protection. That accounted for half of his career missed games due to injuries and none of them were related to any other previous ones from his career, nor were any soft tissue injuries carrying a higher risk of suffering a repeat in the future. 2022 was the lone year where a previous injury increased the likelihood of it happening again. It was 5 total games missed (plus the half of the Bengals game he didn't play and the half of the Packers game he did play but shouldn't have), and the only time he's missed any games in Dec (0) or Jan (3) in his career.
Tua has a long history of being hurt and injured from back at Alabama he’s one or two good hits from forced retirement, that’s why he limited to any running plays and can’t extend plays when needed due to potential injuries and that crippling the dolphins offense
Fun fact: LeBatardShow has 201K RUclips subscribers. BobDoesSports (a duo of bad golfers plus Fat Perez) has 4 times as many subscribers (804K) as this channel. #1 reason? They aren't weighed down by Mike Ruiz. And you know it!
The system once controlled Tua looks bad. They never adjusted.. cause I think our coach knows Tua is limited. He can't do audibles, read defenses, isn't mobile, lacks arm strength
@@jaahnnn franchising Tua does nothing but hurt this franchise as a whole and no rookie we can draft at the spot we will draft is going to make a difference right now that would just be wasting a draft pick on a player that wont contribute. Literally the dumbest thing we can do
This so crazy for people to judge Tua “ My Question is How many of U ever had experience playing Football or coached Football?? 😂 Every Black QB Miami dolphins had “ They get any Respect, Good Compliments “ Because it’s Not DAN MARINO “ the great white hope that never put up the numbers as fast as Tua did “ it’s just Facts !! Not hate “ Tua did things Marino Never done in his time of football “ also Yes The Goat Tom Brady too but multiple superbowls Yet !! And that’s already in the Making Now “ Go Tua !! Bless up
Im glad is over. Congrats to tua all he gotta do just go out and win a Superbowl ring and i know tua will? I think tua will have a movie coming out next season after he win a Superbowl ?
It’s a weird flex to say “Dolphins built an offense to make Tua successful and a coaching staff that rehabbed him from the Flores era. Tua should be thankful.” That’s like saying “I took my car to the mechanic to get fixed and they didn’t destroy the axel. I should be thankful.” You shouldn’t brag about being competent at your job. Comparing yourself to the lowest common denominator does not lead to greatness.
Whether you think Tua isn't worth it to pay or not is irrelevant. The market is the market. The more you delay the more expensive it will be. Grier has failed to understand this concept for the previous 4 contract and choose to sign splashy contracts. Sign Byron Jones then had to pony up to repay X. Delayed signing CW. Delayed signing Rob Hunt but signed AJ. Delayed signing Waddle before Devonta Smith, so relented in the end to a higher contract.
What was Jerod Goff before he came into the Lions system. What has Burrows and Lawrence done before and after extended? And now comes Jordan Love.
Do you go to the Supermarket to argue and scream that groceries are too expensive and say it's not worth it? Gas too expensive? Do you want guarantees of freshness written into your receipt? You either take it or leave it. Buy or walk away.
Walking away means you have to draft or sign another big contract QB or settle with Jacoby Brissett. Yet, Tua has continued to improve under McD and last year lead the league for QBs. Now, people find excuses as Tua being a system QB. I wonder how much Brock Purdy is worth?
Ironic how if you are bad you suck, and if you are good you suck.
Not if you delay than get off him
The market is the market is the phrase used when teams start following each other like sheep.
There’s nothing wrong with what Miami is doing, he hasn’t shown he can carry them at a lower cap number so why should they be so quick give him a contract at a higher cap number where they will have to strip talent off the team to accommodate his contract? If he balls out next year, it’ll cost them more but at least they’ll feel more certain about their decision. If he sucks you move off of him. More teams should be following this approach, they’ve just deluded themselves into thinking they always have to pay a QB with a drop of talent top dollar, which is how you get bullshit like Daniel Jones on a massive deal and Dak Prescott wanting $60m a year.
there's too many people who don't fully understand football, so they think what QBs like Tua do isn't as valuable as physical tools that are more easily measured. i constantly suggest to commenters to read Pat Kirwan and David Seigerman's book Take Your Eye Off the Ball: How to Watch Football by Knowing Where to Look.
@@TheRealMichaelP That is exactly my point. So far Grier hasn't been able to provide a replacement.
He hasn't done it with CW or Rob Hunt. Sure, he has traded away 1st round picks for Tyreek, Chubbs and Ramsey. Chop Robinson is TBD.
Grier doesn't subscribe to building from inside out, instead going for flashy picks such as pass rushers, WR, or CB. Even Chargers devoid of offensive weapons chose to prioritize OL. Even Grier's 2nd round picks are suspect, going for backups instead of other teams.
@@ps50433 you forget that the NFL is a copycat league that is filled with analytics but yet running similar playbooks. When one team crops up, someone will devise a counter that everyone copies.
Right now, every team looks to find the next Mahomes that can extend plays. Yet, they forget the fundamentals like accuracy and reading the defense. Before it was finding canon arms ie. Josh Allen and Herbert. They forget about Brady and Manning with noodle arms.
When you say Tua hasn't shown he can't carry the team so you say he is responsible for all the injuries we had last year? Tua lead the league in most top QB metrics last year, yet Tua is responsible for the team. So what does the HC and all the coordinators do?
Last 3 games of last year: Ravens- Loss; Bills- Loss (and lost Division); Chiefs- Playoff Loss. Tus throws under 200 yards last 2 games and 237 vs Ravens in a blowout loss. Tua also throw 5 INTS in those 3 games.
Facts !! Tua sucks against teams above 500. Tua can't read beyond his first option read. Countless times receivers are wide open, because he can't read the defense. He brakes down when hill is controlled. tua isn't worth no where near market value. He hasn't proven anything !
@@SynjynB The first 2 of those 3 games were without Mostert or Waddle plus a significantly banged up O-Line.
You know who else doesn't look great when pass protection is bad? Mahomes in games with a PFF pass block grade under 60 in 2023:
vs Eagles: 17 points, 43 attempts, 177 yards, 71.6 passer rating
vs Jets: 23 points, 30 attempts, 203 yards, 63.6 passer rating
He went 1-1 with 3 TD, 3 INT in those games, with the Jets win being by 3 points and requiring controversial ref calls/no-calls going against the Jets to happen.
Tua played 7 games with a sub-60 pass block grade. In those games he went 2-5, with the Jets game the only one that was a comfortable win (Cowboys being the other win). The defense allowed 20+ points in 6 of those games and 28+ in 4 of them.
In the 11 games Tua had a 60+ he went 9-2, with the only losses being Chiefs and Bills. The defense allowed 20+ points in 4 of those and 28+ in just 1.
The issue is that 5 of the 7 playoff opponent games happened with terrible blocking. Not a single one of them had more than 3 starting O-Linemen healthy
@@smudgeous4068that part
@@smudgeous4068 I agree that Miami was suffering from major injuries on defense. Losing pretty much your whole LB core (edge rushers) was a major factor is losing at the end of the season. Still, Tua played poorly in the big games last year. No excuses here. With that said, Miami has no choice but to sign him. Why? There is no one else better Miami can bring in. Miami's 2 backups are garbage IMHO and the only "decent' QB free agent is Ryan Tannehill. Ryan is not the answer, but at least he can probably do decent with this race track of a squad.
I hope Tua wises up an walks at the end of the year then all you fake ass fans can see he was the system that worked. He deserves better than what the dolphins or their fans can give him.
I’d pay Tua in the ballpark of what he wants. But they could also pull what the Ravens did with Lamar. Let him play this year and then put the transition tag on him. Let other teams tell Tua what his value is across the league. Either 1) he’ll get an offer that the Dolphins could match or let him walk and get two first round picks, or 2) Tua comes back to the negotiating table knowing what the market really is.
This is the way
Question specifically for Dan. Please let me know who in the existence of the NFL ISN'T a system QB. You create a system that compliments your QBs style of play. Think about that.
Also: A player's value has less to do with what another team would pay than it is about how much he's worth to YOUR team. We went 20 years with mediocre/average QBs because it's difficult to fill that role. If you decide you don't want to pay more than you think he's worth, dust off Cleo Lemon and see how well we play with him under center with all of the toys that Tua's enjoying right now.
Why do they also act as if Jared Goff hasn't been to the Superbowl once and led the LIONS to one close game away from getting to the Superbowl? Goff is really good, if not a great quarterback. People just put these players in narrative boxes and never let them out.
It's funny how Goff's OCs are always praised as geniuses and nobody stops to think maybe this Jared Goff guy is pretty good.
Why is Dan acting like the league isn't full of folks who get paid and do their job poorly?
Even if it is, why is that a scenario anyone wants or would be ok with
@roberttammaro7305 no one should want that. The point is no one should give these front offices the benefit of the doubt until they've more than earned it.
people acting like Tua does his job poorly don't know anything about football.
@@phantomshadowfax5431 I don't understand it either. You can't do your job poorly and lead the league in passing yards. But not paying that player....
But why does the Dolphins have to fall in line with that? Why hate them for doing the right thing?
Tua is average at best against top teams. Great against weak teams.
I think Goff is better than Tua , he’s sneaky good with that arm and tough too .
He's definitely better than Tua... He has 5 Playoff wins and a Superbowl Appearance already. Plus he performs against the Real Teams
@@donjohnson3195he's better but I wouldn't say he performs in the playoffs. He was bad against the 49ers last year in that playoff game and only scored 3 points in the superbowl
@@donjohnson3195he has a much better line. And the lions had an easier schedule than the dolphins last year
He’s 10x better lmao
@@donjohnson3195That’s a team effort not a individual
What success did Tua have in college? He won 1 playoff game and had 5 surgeries 🤔
The concussion Tua suffered vs. Bengals 2 seasons ago is concerning. A "blindside" big hit can not be avoided. Also, he can not be a running QB when needed due to risk. Late season performances, when Fins should have won the division, were subpar. Just rewatch the 2nd half meltdown vs Titans at home, on prime time. Tua could not answer back with a scoring drive to seal the deal. That was the loss that gave Bills life.
Bills gave bills life by winning when they had to that what great teams do the dolphins are a fraud to team and don't even belong in the conversation with great teams at all the bills keep exposing dolphins and tua Miami ain't on the bills level at all
We can't settle for a good qb when it takes a great qb to make it past the wildcard game
What great qb are you getting 😂
Yea but hes who we got, for better or worse. We aint gettin anyone better
Ryan Tannehill made it to the AFC championship game, last QB the Dolphins drafted to win a playoff game. I'd bet Tua will be the next Dolphins drafted QB to win a playoff game, whether or not he's still playing for Dolphins when he does.
That world doesn’t exist. You can keep waiting. As a GM or coach you will be fired holding out for a great quarterback to give great quarterback money to.
You mean a great QB like Ryan Tannehill, Daniel Jones, or Baker Mayfield?
We got a glimpse of what happens when Tua doesn't have Tyreek in the Titans game. I think it's pretty clear they'd rather not pay Tua
Thank you!!
@@SkylineOwnz That was what the team who planned on having Tyreek and Connor Williams all week in practice looked like when both were suddenly removed during the game.
A better look at what Tua looks like without Tyreek was the following week's game against the Jets, as Tyreek was out and the team planned on Waddle being a true #1 all week. Result was 30-0 victory over the Jets, with Tua completing 87.5% of his passes and posting a 119.4 passer rating against a top 3 defense.
Edit: it's worth mentioning that the run game didn't bail him out either: Mostert had one rush of 18 yards but went 14 for 24 yards on his other carries. Achane had one rush of 10 but went 8 for 22 yards on his other carries. Wilson had 5 yards in 2 rushes. In total that's less than 80 yards on 26 carries, and outside of those 2 longest rushes that's 24 rushes averaging 2.125 yards per carry
@@smudgeous4068that part, they always wanna bring up Tennessee but fail to mention chubb had an unsportsmanlike that game Tennessee a first down and a huge momentum swing, they don't wanna mention the drops in the end zone by Tyreek, they don't wanna mention how Miami was gashing Tennessee on the ground but Flores wanted to have Tua throw it 40+ times
It's all Tua
He’s also never going to win a playoff game outdoors outside of Miami and that’s a problem lol
@@siniister710he has only played once
Wrong! No leverage at all. Miami can tag him for two straight years and he won’t be the highest paid QB and there’s nothing he can do about it. Why give him 250m over 5 years when you can tag him after this season and then again after the next. That’s 3 years if they want him. Plus he could get hurt and a one year deal at a time is better for Miami then a 5 year contract.
He doesn’t have to sign the franchise tag
@@georgemincey9086then he will forfeit the season for 2 consecutive years 😂 Dumb Decision then.
That money will count against the cap and you will not be able to sign your other players. Then after that you pay him or he walks.
And he doesn't perform against the Real Teams.... His stats come against Bad Teams and it's No Excuse, having the Most Weapons in the Entire League
@donjohnson3195 and you saw how bad he was that game against the titans when hill was hurt. I don't understand the tua stans. He's clearly jimmy g all over again. How good did jimmy look on the raiders? Put tua on the raiders he will look bad too
I love that Dan is arguing how Tua isn't worth what he wants to be paid and everyone else is saying, "yea I agree but you gotta pay him"
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 right
Ok he's not worth it, then let him go to another team. What's that, franchise him and pay him top 5 average QB money? So he is worth the money. 😅😅😅
We have to pay him… we can’t get anothe qb that’s better
Now we are starting to hear ALOT of people saying pay tua just to pay him without real data or reason. That thought process is the reason we are the definition of insanity now in my opinion
The dolphins finally have a legitimate team, if we lose Tua we go back to irrelevancy. The Dolphins don't understand the importance of great players vs mediocre players.
Dan saying Gardner minshew.. nah.. Teddy B was really solid before coming here and was handpicked by the genius coach and how did he look with all the weapons and the easy system ? Y’all invite me so I can be a fantasy Gm on this show 😂
Teddy bridgewater played like 10 snaps for the dolphins bro tf
@@hrs1414 mike white?
“We also seen what the team looks like without Tua”. Have we? Or have we seen what this team looks like with back up QBs. Ppl kill me with the “Tua is one of a few QBs that can run this offense” lol
Billy was wild for that
gonna cry?
the type of QB that can run this specific offense are few. if you think it's common be prepared to lose and/or build a new OLine.
Well, Jacoby Brissett is a starter going into this season for a different team. Tua was inarguably better when they both played on the same team under Flores and the 3 OC/play callers, at the same time. Supposedly Teddy Bridgewater was going to take Tuas job as the starter before week 8 of 2022, because he was going to out play him on the field, according to all of his critics, including an active NFL head coach, Sean Peyton, who said exactly that on cowherds tv show, and everyone agreed with him. Until Tua came out that season and beat the Ravens with an insane 4th quarter comeback. Where he outscored Lamar and the Ravens by 28-3 in the 4th quarter alone, throwing for 6 TD and like 500 yards, and turned around the next week and beat the Bills at home, and then we all watched Bridgewater step in the following week when he got whip slammed onto his head by a DT. Then Teddy loses that game, turned around the next game and gets hurt on the first play in the game and he has to be replaced by Skylar Thompson, who gets absolutely smoked in that game by Zack Wilson and the Jets. Followed by a game where Skylar starts against the Vikings and he gets hurt early and Teddy has to come in and finish that game, getting absolutely throttled by the Vikings. Then the following week against Mike Tomlin and during Kenny Picketts rookie season when people were convinced he was going to be the Steelers next qb for at least the near future, and in his first game back Tua beats the Steelers, starting a 5 game win streak. And at the end of the season Tua was torching Green Bat on Christmas, putting up 300 yards by halftime of that game. But at some point just after halftime of that game he had an awkward fall after getting tripped up and got concussed without knowing it. Though it became pretty apparent in his play after it happened because he threw 3 straight back to back to back INT to give up the lead he built in the first half and lose the game. Then starts noticing the symptoms the following morning, and his season was done. At this point there are two games left. The Pats and the season finale against the Jets. Skylar once again had to come in and finish the game for Teddy, who got hurt yet again, and Skylar lost to Mac Jones, Belichick and the Pats, something Tua has never done and now won’t even have to worry about ever doing. And the final game against the Joe Flacco led Jets, was the only game that season, that Tua didn’t start, where the starting QB actually managed to finish the game and barely escaped with the only game that was won by anyone other than Tua. It was a 9-6 field goals only game, until the Jets tried the dumbest hook and ladder play imaginable in the final couple seconds of the game and someone tossed the ball backwards into the endzone and got downed with it for a safety after time had expired in the game, make it a final score of 11-6, where 5 field goals and a safety were the only s ores in the game. And people seem to have an illusion that Skylar was actually even serviceable in the playoff game against Buffalo, because the defense scored TDs, had several takeaways deep on the bills side of the field. But anyone with eyes and 25% of a functioning brain, who actually watched that game, should e easily identified that the QB was the problem in that game. From terrible throws, to not being capable of seeing the field clearly, and not trusting anything that they were looking at, and then having wide open grass in front of them and continuously double clutching over and over until he either got sacked or finally did decide to throw the ball and made horrible throw after horrible throw. Finishing with a 40% completion%, multiple INT, and single handedly sank any hope of winning the game in the final seconds, because he couldn’t execute just calling out the play to the offense on time on a 4th & 1. So they waste the final time out, gets the play call from Mike during the timeout, turns right around and takes a delay of game penalty, knocking them back to 4th & 6. Which was the final nail in the coffin of that game because he likely wouldn’t have converted that first down, even if the bills had only left two of their players on the field for it. He probably would’ve been confused and taken another delay of game trying to figure it out, just to then throw an INT if he ever did manage to get a the damn ball snapped after that.
@@indade lol so the only options are few or common. Stop it. The point is this is MMD system that he formed around Tua not the other way around. Have your ever stop to think there is more to MMD system that Tua limits……exactly lol
I don't even want Tua for what he's currently making - $25 million. I don't think he's worth even that. Get through the year and look for somebody better. He's got too low of a ceiling.
As a Bills fan, I really hope the Dolphins give Tua a huge long term contract.
Of course you do. Don't care what bills fan wants mind your own teams business!
As a dolphins fan I hope the bills keep having the success they have had with Josh Allen. All them stats but no rings not even a MVP or a 1st team all pro.
@@Johnny-nh1it eh, none of those things matter. It's just great being part of the conversation every year again after two decades of nothing.
@@Johnny-nh1itYou know what you're absolutely right about Josh Allen has no super bowl rings and no MVPs but he's still better then Tua tell me I'm lying so you can get roasted in the comments lol😂😂😂
@@jeromejasper8947 ok he’s better than Tua now what? Does that get him closer to winning a SB or beating the chiefs in the playoffs? If being better than another player is the goal then at least you have something to hang your hat on.
Can Goff or Menshew get the ball out in under 2.5 seconds accurately??? The o-line is not that good thats the problem. Goff and menshew would be running for their lives in a panic
If Tua waits any longer then 2.5 secs the receivers would be to deep for him to get the ball to them.
This is why you negotiate BEFORE the draft. Now you're stuck. I don't get the strategy from the team's perspective.
Dan making FACTS 💯 Dan is a Real Miami fan!! not a fanboy
I love this conversation!
"If they could find a Tua, they could find a Goff to do it" Goff was a #1 overall pick 😂😂😂😂😂
You guys forgot. Dolphins also have a franchise Tag. Realisticly Dolphins have Tua Tagovailoa for 2 more years. If he plays well.
Love this show. Thanks guys.
Listen, I like Tua a lot.... but in sorry the numbers being thrown around are just wild.. He has to win when it counts
Has Lamar Jackson win when it counts? He’s 2-4 in the playoffs. It’s not Tua it’s a combination of injuries, bad play calling and running into The chiefs
Correction needed here. Almost no one thought Miami should have taken Herbert IMMEDIATELY. That reaction came after the first year in the NFL was completed. Go ahead. Please find me one person who immediately after the pick was saying Miami got it wrong. You'll only find one. But he's all clickbait so I don't care for cowherds opinion. Cowherd also a month prior was saying Tua was a can't miss pick.
He is NOT WORTH A TOP 5 DEAL. Make him prove it on the 5th. If he can’t get us over the hump on a rookie deal, what makes us think he can do so when he is sucking up a giant portion of the cap???
Ya people don't realize if you pay him you will lose hill or waddle and have no money for anybody else
@@kevinorellanaable If Tua gets $55m, there's still over $200m left for the rest of the team in 2024's salary cap and more every year afterward. Saying there's nothing left is an exaggeration. That $55m would be only the 9th largest cap percentage hit at time of signing, well under 25%. Josh Allen's extension several years ago was substantially higher despite its current yearly total looking like a relative bargain.
Also don't forget about injuries: if half of that $200m is injured and sitting on the sidelines at the end of the season, what good is that doing the team?
Tua had 0 snaps all season with a fully healthy offense around him. His 5 starting O-Line members were healthy for 4.07% of the season (43/1057 snaps) and in that single game they all played together the offensive without Waddle put up the most offensive points, TDs, and total yards in the history of the league.
He had MORE than enough around him on offense when provided even league average pass protection. When protection falls apart, every offense struggles. Even Mahomes couldn't put up 10 points against the Bucs when it happened to him despite putting up one of the highest effort QB performances I've ever seen and still lost by 3 scores despite having prime Kelce, Tyreek, and Andy Reid calling the plays.
Tua is nowhere close to the most valuable player in Miami
The Dolphins are right to be hesitant to pay Tua, because all Tua is going to do is lead the Dolphins to another divisional round playoff loss in a cold weather city.
Thank you Dan, stating what should be obvious
Dan L 100% correct
Tua can't win in cold games. He loses against above .500 teams. He pad his statistics against bad teams. The Dolphins has the third easiest schedule last year. Tua gets injured too. Make him prove he can win. Tua seems to have to reinvent himself every year. All too much to pay him now. Make him prove he can win.
anyone else sick of these massive contracts? or how about how they constantly get praised by much of the sports media (especially former players) if i stop watching the NFL, it'll be these ludicrous contracts.
yes, the owners make money.. BUT.. ALL the costs get passed down to the consumer.. increased cost of tickets (and food/beer at games)... increased cost of NFL apparel... increased amount of commercials in games-- for networks to pay for tv deals... and more games on other streaming sources--- playoff games on streaming only-- really!?
lets all be happy. dude will see more money in one year than your family will see in generations. lets celebrate that.
Nice having Greg Cote on, really interesting to have all the different context and opinions. Thanks Again Dan.
This was great radio 🤙🏼❤️🐬🇺🇲🙏🏼🫡
Tua has the best wide receiver in the NFL
@@alexistorres2425 In the 4 games that he played not missing 2+ starting offensive linemen, he showed it. Most total yards of offense and most offensive TDs and points in the history of the NFL in the only one of those 4 where all 5 starters played.
Once the run and pass protection tanked from missing 2/3/4 starters, their offense was a shell of its former dominant self. No other postseason QB finished anywhere near his #31 ranked pass block win rate line, and no QB in the league had a pocket fall apart faster than he did.
Also unlike in 2022, the defense was also severely banged up and not able to bail out the offense at the end of the season. If the 2022 and 2023 defenses were flipped, Miami wouldn't have beaten the Jets with the 11 points they scored week 18 and would have finished 8-9 and out of the playoffs. The 2023 Dolphins wouldn't have lost to the Texans (plus possibly the Eagles, first Chiefs game, and been closer vs the Bills in the first game) and would have taken the division. They would have faced the Steelers at home instead of traveling to KC
Who is putting ip his best numbers of his career
This is why I love Dan, he is 100% correct
Tua has not won a single big game for Miami
Honest question ... who was the last "mid" qb to lead the league in passing?
Jameis Winston in 2019. Also tua’s passing by yard total is the lowest passing yard leader total since Brady in 2017 and the 2nd lowest since Brees in 2006.
@@idawg7332 … Ahh yes Winston. As for Tua’s yardage total, what does that have to do with it? If the other “elite” guys couldn’t pass for more what’s that tell about defensive play last season? Also, that’s like me pointing out Dan Marino only surpassed his total twice in his entire HOF career. Side bar … Winston was a pretty good passer he was just an INT machine lol. Not sure why some of the QB guru’s never took a chance on fixing him … must have had an attitude problem.
Funny, the quote you pasted on top of this video is exactly what I thought about you Dan.
The issue in these QB situations is, who are you getting that is better to replace him.
If the Dolphins offense is to advance to legit playoff threat good, listen to this.
It's no longer a matter of what they get from Tua. It's what they give to and provide for Tua that will determine the fate of this offense. That means a lot more than fast receivers.
The average player is not a QB. The average player is a teams 2nd safety, a left guard, a nose tackle. In a literal sense, the only type of players less frequently found on any teams roster, than starting caliber QBs, is quality kickers and punters. Every other player on a roster has multiples, besides starting QBs, kickers &, punters. And there are a total of zero people who know even a tiny amount about the sport who would suggest otherwise. And the only players at less risk of concussions than QBs, are also kicker & punters. QBs are typically getting concussed. Tua did for the first time in 2022, and was fortunate enough to have it happen twice in one season. He’s played football for a long time, without that being a problem, until the one season it happened twice. Then, immediately following that season, he had his best season statistically as a pro and health wise since highschool. And him having extra weight had nothing to do with him staying healthy. Him choosing to get the ball out of his hand faster and not keep trying to save bad plays and putting himself in bad situations that kept biting him in the ass. It took a while, but he finally accepted that him trying to make the hero play is worth significantly less than having his ass healthy and out there on the field for the next play.
Tanenbaum was right, Herbert was the Pick.
Flores (not counting the "Tanking for Tua" year) won about as much as McDaniel (with lesser talent).
The '20-'21 teams were good but Tua underperformed in the Playoff clinching Games (Skylar didn't play great but still managed to win the '22 Playoff clinching game).
I'll give you '23, though they blew their Division lead.
Goff made it to 2 Championship games and 1 Super Bowl.
Dan is right.
Everyone has to prove something as an athlete. I’m skeptical of every player. The problem is, the great players rise up in the face of adversity and doubt and prove who they are. Tua supporters just always have excuses. I doubted Kobe, Mahomes, and a whole list of other players. You don’t just get crowned the guy for what you didn’t in high school or college. Whenever those players I just named were backed into a corner, the rose to the occasion and that’s what gained my respect for those players and why they became some of my favorite players to watch. EVERYONE has to prove they are the guy. Tua has yet to do this. So , he’s not disrespected. Y’all just want him to have respect that he hasn’t earned.
One healthy yr does not equal 50 plus million
It did for Joe Burrow 🤷🏾
it’s not just “one healthy year” tho
The dolphins are trying to avoid the NY Giants situation with Daniel Jones
Derrick Carr got $40M/year. How much did Russ just cost the Broncos, with a contract he still has not, and never will play a single snap for the Broncos on, as he now gets paid by them to play for Steelers. Cousins got how much, after he tore his Achilles at 35+ years old? And by the way, Tua was always as good as he is today. What he didn’t have his first two season in the league, was a competent front office or a competent offensive coaching staff, and he was working with guys that all but 2 of are standing in the unemployment line as we speak today. And both of the remaining two guys who are active players in the NFL today, both also had their career best years in the NFL, with Tua, in a dog shit offensive system with 3 offensive coordinators in the same season in 2021, and the OC who was actively working against him in favor of Ryan Fitzpatrick in 2020. And you wonder why the team sucked. It wasn’t Tua. Tua couldn’t overcome a terrible roster, a front office that did nothing but work against you and an entire coaching staff who actively worked against him. No fucking QB on this planet could
Carr got 40M on a deal which could be torn up after 1 season. Cousins likewise torn up after 2.
@@Mattswfc14 and Trevor Lawrence got a 5 year extension on top of the two remaining years he had on his rookie deal, that the Jags can rip apart and toss in the can after either the first or second year of the 5 new years, and all the money that actually makes it a $55M/year annual value, comes after that point. Where they will have either already reworked the deal or added years on, before it gets to that point, if they haven’t ran it through the paper shredder already.
I bet S. Ross would gladly go after the Sanders father-son duo and the franchise will make even more money than now under McDaniel-Tua combo. I think its a good bet to make
It takes A Team to win,Dolphins can't pay high end prices for the best players on offense to help Tua a better QB, I see watching games Tua has not surpassed Win consistently the Better Teams, I believe Tua is an above average Qb at this moment. Tua should do as Wilkins Did ,Prove that you can win The better Teams consistently and playoff games.
I can solve this debate with one word. Height. If all that Tua has gone through, concussions, hips, hand, knee, foot....everything is exactly the same but he was 6'5", he would have been extended already and the media "experts" would be ranking him as a top 5-10 QB like Herbert is. Herbert hasn't won a playoff game either and has worse numbers. It's the height.
Tua can play in the sean Payton system he can play in the 49ers system and by the way if Tua played for the niners they would 2 Super Bowl rings by now . He can play in Minnesota and Green Bay they all run a some sort of west coast system.
so dumb. why do people penalize Tua for being a fit for his offense. Like Tom Brady was only good because he played the same system his entire career including in Tampa? Drew Brees was no good because he played in Saints system or he got paid?
Thinking these same points and trying to aply them to this conversation if i was in the room
Because Brady and Brees win big games and beat playoff teams and won their division and tua isn't doing that
@@lucascasey6867 Drew Brees was 27 when he won his first playoff game and was 0-2 in playoffs before that. Tua is 26
Tua was more good than bad, if those receivers catch his passes and running backs don't fumble we'd have a different convo
As a Jets fan, it makes me feel better to kno that no amount of talent is ever gonna make the Dolphins front office any smarter 💯
In that same van, it makes me feel better that no matter who the Jets have, even AR, the dysfunction of that organization will result in football as usual in NY 🤣🤣👍
@@bigwaidave4865 oh I agree.
Rodgers is a POS, has done absolutely NOTHING to prove that characterization wrong, and is apparently IN CHARGE of the Jets FO. Cuz we stupid.
I think what you guys are missing on Tua’s value is Desperation. I think there are desperate teams out there that would overpay for a QB. Look at what the Browns did. I think the Raiders are desperate and have an owner desperate and “dumb” enough to overpay. Maybe the by the end of next season we see some other teams become desperate enough to pay a lot. They might shortsighted front offices but there are always teams that do big splash deals like that.
If you think the Bills, Ravens, and 49ers did the SAME thing as the Dolphins last year cause they all lost to the Chiefs I can’t help you. One of those teams was totally non competitive….the others got clipped in the end by an all time QB/HC combo.
If he goes to Pittsburgh they just hand the ball off with him?!?!? what are we talking about??? he can't throw better than Picket?!? The shade this man gets is out of this world
Jared Goff is 4-4 in playoffs and been to a Super Bowl. He's not a peer of Goff. Enough of the "led the league in passing yards". He sucks vs teams over .500. Can't win a game under 40 degrees. Look up the stats and stop parroting the fan boys.
I've been fan for over 55 years. Tua aint that guy. He's being proped up by the talent and offense. Popcorn fart deep ball
@@jackthompson-ew8ukIdiot so has Goff 😂
Dan is 100% right on Tua the rest of the guys don’t know what they are talking about!!!
Tua is not worth that top money. He wouldn't get top dollar as a free agent period. Tua plays horrible against good teams and can't play in cold weather. McDaniel created that offense to hide Tua many faults.
Tuas fault is that he just isnt nimble and fleet footed enough to extend plays .
In games where defenses get physical and bump a reciever and throw off timing etc , tua and most quarterbacks etc just dont have it either only a select few .
The dolohins , this year , last year and the year before have spent so much money certainly had the weaponry ,and injuries i do understand .
But its always there collapse no matter who we have late season , thats why id rather see a big dull back to contril the clock and wear down a defense .
Its very demoralising when you line up to run the ball , the defense even knows your gonna run the ball and you cant stop them , it may not be fan friendly or exciting like the pass game but less can aleo go wrong also
Let tua leave
Love and Tua have the same Agency! There both working together Love will sign first then Tua will be next!!!
“If one of them is Goff, then it should be noted that Goff is being paid 53M” that’s because Goff did what Tua did and more with less of a supporting cast around him. Goff is better than Tua. You put Goff in Miami and Tua in Detroit, Miami is still in the playoffs and Detroit is not.
The big thing with TLaw’s contract is how they structured it, he will never be above a 47M cap hit unless they don’t restructure after 2029. They have an out after 2029, so yes TLaw got paid but he did so in a way that it doesn’t hurt the team.
The Dolphins need to give Tua his Moolah !!
Skylar Thompson took them to the playoffs year before last, Tua was hurt! IJS
Skylar and Teddy won 1 game from a possible 7 😂 oh and they scored a total of 11points in that sole win against the jets. if thats all it takes to take a team to a playoff then….lol
Not true, Tua was on a 5 game losing streak prior to injury…Teddy loss the 6th….then we had a must-win vs the Jets to get in the playoffs..and Skylar won it so again….Skylar took us. Where’s the lie. Also, we both all know Tua never wins must-wins. 😢
Why do people act asif Lamar Jackson didn't quarterback the Ravens to a blowout playoff win vs the Texans and a one touchdown loss to the team in the AFC Championship game that went on to win the Superbowl as if he was 1 and done in the playoffs. Burrow lost to them the year before and Allen as well. What makes Jackson losing to them any worser than the rest of them.
A QB's value is over-rated based upon the next man up mentality! Jordan Love showed signs last season, but 50 million per year? Crazy!
Give me Love over Tua Any Day.... Any Day‼️
"fair market value" i hate talking heads who just spew buzz words.
The entire reason he doesn't have a contract is because clearly the two sides disagree on what his market value is.
He hasn’t been disrespected he hasn’t earned it! 1 solid year does not justify a big payday he doesn’t get this on another team period im a dolphins lifer but Dan is right he’s the best option for them at the moment make him play this year get a deep playoff push and next year get your bag he’s not that “dude” to be sitting out of camp he need all the chemistry he can get
26:40 Pretty sure Mike was the HC for the playoff game IN BUFFALO with rookie Skylar Thompson making his 7th start. Bills put up 34pts. 🐬 lost by 3 & had a legit shot to upset. I know it's all about Ws but McDiesel is a friggin stud
Wrong! Flores was the coach during that playoff game
Miami was going after Brady his rookie year as coverage for when Tua was recovering his hip.
No lies told by Dan! 🐬🐬🐬🐬
Maybe we shouldn't have been paying more wide receivers and should've shored up the offensive line. Then maybe a mediocre QB could keep the ship afloat.
-Shout out to blind homerism from Greg Cote as usual.
-In a league where the franchise tag exists, why would you ever lock yourself into a long term deal on a QB who sucked against playoff teams in the year where he was completely healthy? If McDaniel is the coach you think he is, let Tua walk and bring in someone else.
-To Greg's point about Tua being a hot commodity in free agency next year which, again, is severely hampered by this cool little thing called the franchise tag:
AFC teams:
-Pittsburgh: Assuming neither Fields nor Wilson pan out and for some stupid reason, they forgo the draft to sign a QB with glaring issues.
-Jets: Possible option if Rodgers retires.
-Raiders: Pretty sure this isn't even possible due to cap reasons.
NFC teams:
-Giants: Again an option but just like the Steelers, why would they sign Tua when they could draft a rookie.
-Seahawks: Possible if Geno flames out but again why sign someone comparable when the draft exists?
-Saints: Just like with the Raiders, I'm pretty sure this is impossible cap wise.
Not many options available and the ones that are don't make sense when the draft is right there.
Dolphins are already going to fall apart because they let Hunt van Ginkel and Wilkins go and if they lose Tua too it's just going to be that much worse. Tua is possibly the best QB in the NFL despite the nay sayers.
Until the Miami Dolphins get on a plane and start practicing in cold weather on a regular basis.....there not winning. Doesn't matter who the QB is.
They’re saying that the Dolphins went to the playoffs in back to back season after not a long playoff drought before Tua got there. The assertion that that Tua is the reason for this. However, Tua has been there for 4 years, they only made the playoffs twice. So is it Tua? Bc, coincidentally, they made the playoffs the two years that McDaniel has been there
He had a career ending injury...you are not the sharpest tool in the box
@@TuatagaloaTeo he had a “career-ending injury”?? So he doesn’t play anymore? Who’s not the sharpest?! 🤔
what are we talking about! tua can't put the team on his back and drive down the field when it matters! this is the difference in his worth! he has not had his moment yet
If he doesnt get injured next season and he plays well, then we pay him in my humble opinion
And what if he walks, or demands top pay 🤷🏾♂️
Pay him a lot now or a lot more later
@@lamarbennett436 i know its gamble, no right answer, but i dont wanna be stuck years with a mediocre QB
@@wonkascandyboy this team has been trending upwards every year since 2020 not signing the QB we built this team for would be putting us 5 years behind. McDaniel's play calling is every bit of the problem, him refusing to stick to the running game or force feeding Tyreek the ball is every bit of the problem, the hot garbage online that they refuse to fix is every bit of the problem. Tua has done nothing but win and improve year in and year out and now that it's his turn they don't wanna pay.
This team about to fuck up and be back into purgatory if they don't pay that man
@@lamarbennett436 i think tyreek helped him a lot, also achande and mostert, and waddle. Without tyreek he didnt play so good and against good teams either
But i respect your point
@@wonkascandyboy and Tua has helped tyreek a lot too but y'all dont want to talk about that, Tua torched a top 5 defense WITHOUT Tyreek yet yall dont want to bring that up. Tyreek blew that game vs the chiefs twice dropping touchdown passes and tumbling the ball away. yet nobody wants to talk about that.
Pay that man so we can keep this thing moving.
There's no reason to pay Tua - at all. None. He isn't a good QB. He's under contract for this year. Play him. He does well. You Franchise Tag him and force him to do it again. If he does it again, then you sign him to a long term contract with the premium. If he doesnt, which he won't, you cut bait and move on and draft a rookie under a rookie contract instead of wasting 50m on an subpar QB. Yes - subpar, do not under-estimate the talent on that offense and what McDaniel system does for QBs.
Anytime the dolphins have a great player we should retain them instead of letting them go and replace them with a bunch of scrubs.
Guarantee Tua will become a back up in the future. Grier realized he screwed up taking a top 5 qb that isn't a top 5 qb. His limitations are converted by the fisher price offense. Purdy was picked lady and is better.
Tua should just be a free agent and let teams pay him mid 60's million next season.
The main problem is QBs are making too much money! They count for 1/4 of the salary cap think about that! I would rather have the #1 Defense a average QB not breaking the bank!!!!!
What 'deep dive'?
Tua wants to be paid like he's already won a SuperBowl. He hasn't even won in the Playoffs yet.
Is Tua an elite QB? That's an arguable issue since he's spent a third of his career riding pine. As the old saw goes 'The best ability is availability' and 'SQUISHY' is indeed a check box on the front of your personnel folder. And for those of you say 'that's not fair!' let me ask you this: Since when has the NFL been fair? You wanna ask Dan Marino about 'fair'? I'll bet he's got an opinion on it....
Does Tua deserve a good deal? Absolutely. Tua makes the 'Fins relevant BY HIMSELF. But he does NOT deserve to be the '60 million dollar man'.
And the 'Fins can keep him for 'free' by tagging him for two more years anyway.
You should check your math.
Even if you penalize Tua for not playing the games before he was named starter in his rookie season when the team had another starting QB, he has played in 77.9% of the games Miami has played since 2020.
Even if you include every minute of every game he's left early with injuries (3 games, one was only for a couple of minutes), it doesn't add up to a third of his career.
For the record I have no issue with anything else you said, just sick of seeing the injuries constantly overblown for Tua.
His first season his only missed game after being named starter was a thumb issue in November against the 0-11 Jets. He was listed as questionable and Fitz was available so he didn't play one game, no difference in impact to every QB who rests the final week of the season.
2021 had another 1-game absence in Nov with a middle finger fracture against the 1-8 Texans, in addition to the 3 weeks at the beginning of the season with broken ribs due to terrible protection. That accounted for half of his career missed games due to injuries and none of them were related to any other previous ones from his career, nor were any soft tissue injuries carrying a higher risk of suffering a repeat in the future.
2022 was the lone year where a previous injury increased the likelihood of it happening again. It was 5 total games missed (plus the half of the Bengals game he didn't play and the half of the Packers game he did play but shouldn't have), and the only time he's missed any games in Dec (0) or Jan (3) in his career.
Tua sucks immobile weak arm can't read defenses or call audible. Can't beat the bills or win the division, can't beat winning teams
Tua has a long history of being hurt and injured from back at Alabama he’s one or two good hits from forced retirement, that’s why he limited to any running plays and can’t extend plays when needed due to potential injuries and that crippling the dolphins offense
I hate hearing over and over he played the whole year led NFL in passing, isn't that what he's suppose to do especially with All that talent 🤔
Fun fact: LeBatardShow has 201K RUclips subscribers. BobDoesSports (a duo of bad golfers plus Fat Perez) has 4 times as many subscribers (804K) as this channel. #1 reason? They aren't weighed down by Mike Ruiz. And you know it!
All these 🤡 coming out for cris Grier! Including ESPN saying Tua is not a top 10 qb. Every qb is at risk of injuries!
If you can't make it to the playoffs, you are not close. If you make it, you have a chance.
The system once controlled Tua looks bad. They never adjusted.. cause I think our coach knows Tua is limited. He can't do audibles, read defenses, isn't mobile, lacks arm strength
Tua for $55m or Dak for $60m?
Let him play this year out and draft a rookie ..keep franchising him if need be. Grier playing it right
@@jaahnnn😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 literally the dumbest option we could ever do
@lamarbennett436 if coach Mike really believed in Tua like that he woulda fought for him to be signed already like he did with tyreek
@@jaahnnn franchising Tua does nothing but hurt this franchise as a whole and no rookie we can draft at the spot we will draft is going to make a difference right now that would just be wasting a draft pick on a player that wont contribute.
Literally the dumbest thing we can do
@lamarbennett436 if Tua gets hurt early we will be drafting early ...you so smart
They should’ve gotten a better FA as well as draft another Qb.
This so crazy for people to judge Tua “ My Question is How many of U ever had experience playing Football or coached Football?? 😂 Every Black QB Miami dolphins had “ They get any Respect, Good Compliments “ Because it’s Not DAN MARINO “ the great white hope that never put up the numbers as fast as Tua did “ it’s just Facts !! Not hate “ Tua did things Marino Never done in his time of football “ also Yes The Goat Tom Brady too but multiple superbowls Yet !! And that’s already in the Making Now “ Go Tua !! Bless up
Im glad is over. Congrats to tua all he gotta do just go out and win a Superbowl ring and i know tua will? I think tua will have a movie coming out next season after he win a Superbowl ?
Great segment guys I love cote 🔥