Norman, Viking & Late-Saxon Helmets Part 2: Fit & Protection
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- Опубликовано: 23 сен 2020
- Norman, Viking & Late-Saxon Helmets Part 2: How they were worn, how they should fit, what protection they give and a big dose of CONTEXT! Helmets provided by The Knight Shop: www.theknightshop.com/buy-his...
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Развлечения
The discussion about having the helmet higher on the head reminded me of the concept of primary and secondary safety in modern design, particularly automotive design. In brief, primary safety is intended to prevent accidents, secondary safety is about surviving them, and primary safety is always better! Having the helmet higher seems to be a primary safety measure, since you survive every attack that you dodge!
It's interesting that while the names of things have changed, the understanding of these concepts has been consistent through engineering history!
Very good video with a lot of good points. When you mentioned the Eye brows Always visibile in the art I was like "Gosh how did I not see that?".
It's cool we are both into helmets videos lately :)
Do y’all think that might be the artists choice though? Eyebrows are such an important part of the human face for expression and just looking human.
@@meatpilotbut artistic choice would be followed by some artist and not others. When something is done consistently its likely to represent actual practice. The more consistently it's done the more likely it is to represent reality.
I didn't know old helmets had a suspension system similar to modern hard hats it makes perfect sense though. Next time you make a video with your norman helmets you should try it on over your padded bonnet and mail coif.
Always ready to get Norman
Grandmaster Flash! It's an honour to have you here. I hope the Five remain Furious.
It‘s like Dark Ages sometimes
and makes me wonder
how I keep from going under.
Who is Norman, and why are we getting him?
Yeah but how well does it do against rolling pins?
Cheers
I love your description of Augusto
The most shocking revelation of this video was that Matt doesn't have hair.
we already knew years ago
@@maximilianolimamoreira5002 You don't say. Well that certainly couldn't have been the joke.
he has hair but he wears a human leather helmet all the time!
It's really weird how many people don't seem to get that my comment was prompted by something said in the video and not by me legit not knowing after 7 years of watching him that Matt Easton was bald.
Cool, new video posted 10 minutes and 10 centuries ago. Matt review a fight from "Alatriste" please!
I said the same in another video ajajaja Alatriste is awesome
Am armorer, can confirm I have no social life. The two might be unrelated though.
i have tons of friends! *points at armour stands*
Well you can always make some friends...Heavy metal friends if you will.
Sadly I have to confirm this. Who am i kidding, i love this job.
@@jakubchalupa8510 a social life is a worthy sacrifice for *U N L I M I T E D K E T T L E H A T S*
Thanks for sharing!
"A budgie smuggler"
Hmm...........yes sir, I have no idea what that means.
It's an expression, of Australian origin, for Speedo brief men's swimmers or g-string underpants.
@@benjaminodonnell258 interesting, thank you
@@Harbinger359 the idea is it looks like you're smuggling budgies (a small parrot) in your swimmers.
@@dogmaticpyrrhonist543 I gotcha. Funny to think of who first came up with that one
Say "strewth mate are those tight enough? You look like you're smuggling budgies down there!" in an Australian accent and you'll realise it could have been absolutely anyone from that fine land down under.
Hi. Have a look at the medieval Monmouth cap. Specially designed to fit under a helmet. Was even specifically shaped, with a loop at the back for carrying. It had a special weave with a double thickness rim round it. Even with hair you end up losing a lot of it due to knocks and such. Even with that I found you always ended up with bruises on your forehead where you headbut opponents with it. That was with morrions 17c helmets.
Budgie smuggler is a new one for me. Thanks
12:23 How can I say no to that endearing "pleeeease". And yes, that jacket drew my eyes! Would love to hear more about it.
Thank you Matt. I notice the new garment (not your usual T-shirts). Looks futuristic.
I am going bald too. New function for my hair piece. 🤪
good analysis
I WAS wondering about the jacket for sure. It looks like wet weather wear.
Matt, question: why were there flat topped nasal helmets (12th cent.) after (!) the "Norman" conical one? From the evolutional perspective this doesnt sounds right. Is there an advantage in the flat form? But why then the form went back to conical/round in the 13th and 14th century?
It was to make soldiers more easily stackable in shipping containers.
Fashion. Or maybe they thought it would act as a crumple zone for blows coming diagonally downwards.
Fashion over function, plus they had a conical interior under helmet in some examples.
@@blairbuskirk5460 i dont think that fashion plays a role if a protection is inferior to the other.
Ur second argument refers to the great helm. This is not what I refer to. I refer to a normal helmet like the one presented in the video. But even the great helm developed to a conical design.
@@blairbuskirk5460 The neck crushing think could be mitigated by the idea that they wored a mail coif, secret helmet before donning a great helm, thus there is allot of space before the flat top actually transfers shock into the skull.
You've got to admit it's a lot better than "Hey, Matt! You've got your helmet on backwards."
Thrown rocks seem like a very common weapon in sieges. How do you feel about their effectiveness against armor? Not from a sling, just thrown.
Griffin thrown from a certain height they can cause pretty nasty concussion or if the head is displaced in a certain direction it can sprain neck muscles or cause even vertebral fracture in the neck spine. Speaking as a medic here. All a matter of physics.
Very nice helmet! I will love video about helmet transition (nasal - great helm - bascinet), that will be great!
Great photo of Augusto! It should be made into a 'Good Guy HEMA Practitioner' meme template :)
„To cut a long story short.“ - Matt Easton 2020
awesome, anyone suggestions to finds and resources that can be used when going to get stuff build or buy? i cant seem to find proper information when it comes to the 5-8 century in the west and southwest of germany
Hi, Matt.
I've noticed in multiple examples of illustrations in old manuscripts, on your channel and others, images that clearly depict what appear to be cuts to helmets with what looks like blood flowing from them. Some images even show swords embedded in helmets. Is this an accurate depiction of reality, perhaps a consequence of poor quality raw materials and helmet fabrication? Or, alternatively, dramatisation and artistic licence?
One thing to consider, medieval and ancient helmets are often only 20 or 18 gauge thickness (1mm-1.2mm of metal)
Modern reenactors generally use 16 to 12 gauge helmets (1.6mm-2mm steel thickness) , much thicker than what was historically used, as anything thinner than 16 gauge or 1.6mm steel isn’t considered safe to fight with as far as steel fighting re-enact its are concerned.
On top of that historical helmets often didn’t use the same quality of steel that modern reproductions do.
So ironically, LARP helmets are more historically authentic than steel fighting historical re-enactor helmets lol.
@@original0blace Thanks for your reply.
So, in effect, poorer quality materials. I guess the ideal head armour would be a combination of helmet, maille and an arming cap.
Thanks, again.
Robert the Bruce was said to have cleaved his axe through the knight Henry de Bohun's helmet killing him, the knight was galloping toward him before the Battle of Bannockburn, here's from wikipedia:
"At the last moment Bruce manoeuvred his mount nimbly to one side, stood up in his stirrups and hit de Bohun so hard with his axe that he split his helmet and head in two. Despite the great risk the King had taken, he merely expressed regret that he had broken the shaft of his favourite axe."
Different era, but in Le Morte d'Arthur, Malory regularly describes how particularly mighty blows cut the enemy's helmet in two. He was writing in the 1400s about events that (if they happened at all) happened hundreds of years before, although he described them in the style of his own times. I suspect that cleaving the helmet in two with a single blow is the mediaeval writer's equivalent of the western gunslinger quick drawing and shooting his opponent's pistol from his hand: it is an exciting and dramatic way of showing that one fighter is particularly powerful or skilled.
@Catch_Me_If_You_Can I think it was likely more a case of they wanted it to be as light as possible whilst giving adequate protection.
Sure, a 2mm thick steel helmet sounds appealing, until you have to march 15 miles a day with it, or fight for hours upon hours in it.
The difference in weigh is quite noticeable. Its likely a case of they didn't see it a practical/necessary/worth it I'd say.
Budgie smuggler. Matt is priceless.
He doesn't get angry, he's just italian.
This is the type of information you just can't get anywhere else!
Let's get Norman.
Is in any treaty that you would take a blow on your armor on pourpus and this would give you opening to strike oponet?
ESPECIALLY if you have hair, you would have some form of arming cap under the coif. If you have hair of any sort of real length, bare chain sliding around on your hair will rip it out rather painfully. I've made coifs for friends and some have made the mistake of trying to wear them right over their hair and taking them off has always been a painful experience, after that.
A question for you...If you had to choose on sword as a main weapon, knowing you will have to fight in a shield wall, on a open battlefield and in a dual vs a rapier. What sword type or design would you choose to carry. You only get to to choose one. The best for most situations. Medieval setting. No guns.
looks like right above the nasal guard the lining seems to be torn a bit away from the attachment point (if there was one there)
Shiny dome on a shiny dome.
Hey Matt, been trying to do some research and would love it if you or anyone could help me out.
I've always wandered as to why the lack of greaves during the Anglo Saxon period??? Considering the use of round shields you would think their legs would be more vulnerable. Watching HEMA sparing with sword and shield show shots to the legs seem very common place.
Splint armour for the arms and legs has been found earlier during the Vendel period but it them seems to disappear by what is commonly called the "Anglo Saxon period". Or "Viking period". Even things like the Bayeux Tapestry, which shows intricate detail to the warriors, show leg wraps but no leg armour.
Wandered if you or anyone had any info on the matter ???
Has anyone done a comparison between skull sizes and helmet interior sizes from the medieval period to figure out how much padding people wore under their armor?
In your opinion how does this helmet compare to the Roman Legionaires helmet for balance of protection vs vision, mobility, hearing etc.
Matt Eason line of Superdry (chain)mail hauberk/hoodies when?
Hi Matt. Slightly off topic but why do bascinets come to a point at the back? I know points are good for deflection but at the back? Did they do a lot of running away? Or Hollywood style spinning round?
IMO that shape made lateral strikes to glance more easily. With a vertical point you have a section of the helmet perpendicular to such strikes with a some amount of leverage over your neck.
That is the scariest Iron Chef outfit that I have ever seen!
Hey, Matt. Can you do a video on medieval hair styles? Was it common to have a clean bald shave like yours? It looks like every movie we see at least on (evil!) bald guy in it!
people were always proud of their hair. Goes back to biblical times. Long flowing locks of clean hair was favorable for fashion. Military hairstyle much like today encouraged short hair or cropped hair. Even the normans shaved the back half of their heads to prevent people from reaching around and gaining purchase on their noggins.
First. I had to stop the video at budgie smuggler(LOL). Second. My Grandfather had a small head, and his WW1(Royal Canadian Engineers) Brodie helmet could not be adjusted to fit, so he wandered over to an artillery unit corral, and trimmed enough horsetails to pad his helmet for a nice fit. I still have his helmet, but the liner and horsehair are long gone.
Why did they fall out of use during the 13-ish century? I mean we see greathelms, mail coifs with skullcaps underneath and kettle helmets but why does it seem like the ol nasal helmet disappeared?
Take this with a grain of salt, but as greathelms become more prominent for shock cavalry, cervelieres also evolved. It may have been unfomfortable or impractical to have a nasal inside the greathelm. And seems that eventually cervelieres grew and grew until they became the early bascinets, which in time they also became a stand alone piece without the greathelm on top.
@@Mtonazzi I was wondering why the nasal didn't remain for use by infantry as opposed to say kettle hats or cervelieres and coifs. It still seems like a very decent piece of equipment.
@@TheOhgodineedaname Kettle hard probably offered better protection from cavalry when you're on the ground? The brim also provides adequate protection from most vertical or oblique blows and can deflect some of them off your shoulders. But I'm only guessing here.
As a archeologist who does a good bit of experimental archeology I can attest the obsession with armour ... Don't even need to do it as your main job... You do it once and somehow you just spend 7 months and about 1 1/2 thousand euros on making stuff, buying stuff and testing stuff ....
get that roll pin
Can you wear a fez inside of a helmet?
I have an earlier helm, viking era spectacle type, and the inside is leather straps, no padding. Should it have this type of padded suspension instead?
Yes.
@@mikaelm6404 I guess I have a new lockdown project
Yes you have! 😄
Adore your wife. Have her on more. Best of luck to you and the family.
ENGAGEMENT NUMBERS GO UP!
fuck I have to re-do all my norman knights drawings XD
I know any positive number is more than 0 - but speaking as someone who has "a lot of hair", my hair does nothing to cushion my helmets!
Braid it, twas what the Spartans did. Or you could try a Princess Leia look.
@@kleinjahr metal bikini???
*NORMANLY* when I talk about *'CAPTIAN CONTEXT'* I make jokes about Matt's love for the Kukri or 1889 Pattern Swords but *he NOSE* a lot more about the early era than suspected. Well I like to *lie on my MATT* and look towards Istanbul (Byzantium) to *feel a little EASTERN!* Ah lame puns are wonderful aren't they, like Matt but we are all going *'to HELL MATE'!*
Is chainmail time consuming and labour intensive to manufacture?
Talking about helmets made me think of a question. It's a little bit out of your timeline, but in line as a military historian. When I served during the Vietnam era, our helmets came in two parts. One parts was the steel helmet, and the other part was the helmet liner. The helmet liner was basically a dome shaped hard hat that fit inside the steel pot. During training, we almost always wore the liner and left the steel part back in the barracks. Drill instructors would apply stencils indicating rank and unit to their liners, then cover them with several coats of clear coat which would be polished to a high shine.
My question is: When was the helmet liner introduced? I can remember that when my Dad came home from WWII, for several years he had a bald spot on his head where his helmet had rubbed out the hair. That wouldn't have happened if he had been wearing a modern helmet liner.
I bet Matt Banks at Goldman Saxon. 😎
So it sounds like the Normans didn't wear hauberks, as much as they wore hoodyberks. 🤔
"What are we?" "Muggers!"
All I can think of when I see one of these is the guy from Epic NPC Man.
Your pal is right, you do look silly in that helmet !
Is that a spes jacket you are wearing or something else?
Shame of me for commenting before the video was over
MAT STICK SOME HEY OR STRAW AND YOU GOT HELMET PADDING LOL
Of course one would wear at least a stocking (beanie) hat under a maille hood otherwise one's hair would become entangled at the least or ripped out by the maille shifting, even without receiving incoming blows.
I Wonder why they stopped using the nasal bar (sorry) when they started to use Salets.
Too awkward to mass produce?
Bevors offering better protection?
PS. 3:58 Knight be like: "Wait wha-CLONG"
I google Matt Easton, budgie smuggler, imagine my surprise when I got a result.
Hehe, he said thong
If you were wearing a mail coif and a padded cap under it the helmet would sit higher.
"A leather strip, not a budgie smuggler"
I have never heard that term before, but welcome to America, Budgie Smuggler, you will be said henceforth
A budgie smuggler. My god I lost my shit at that. Well done lmao
Dex Aieeeeeeeeee
Mr Norman "Norm" Everage?
Matt your face is simply perfect for closed face helmets! But in this example you are far to baldly on the chin at the least.
Really got a thing for beards don’t you?
Why didn't helmets have have a wire mesh protecting the face. Seems lie it would provide decent protection without limiting vision/ breathing very much.
I suspect it was too much of a pain to use, and likely the meshes possible were not strong enough, or those strong enough were too visually impairing. I think the kind of wire mesh we see on something on a fencing helmet is relatively new.
Hi with a helmet that dosent fit properly it’s so easy for someone to pull it down over your eyes, or off. And most common soldiers helmets would have been one size fits all.
A mail coif with a woolenpadded mouthpiece makes for a very proper face mask these days. Right? 😊
I think you give hair way to much credit as padding. As a person with a full head of hair I can absolutely say it gives minimal padding and doesn't help that much to fill out space inside a helmet. Be proud of your bald head, some people can't pull it off as good as you and Bruce Willis.
I wear a hardhat daily and I wear a welder's cap underneath because of padding and I can't stand the webbing touching my bald head
Is your baldness genetic or intentional? Also, would be interesting to see you collab with another RUclips historian, ScorpioMartianus (Luke Ranieri).
Now you're going to have to talk about military haircuts throughout history, and when and why the more modern buzz cut became the norm around the world.
@Pub Thumpin That's what they told us about facial hair in the USAF but we NEVER did gas drills. Never.
Uniformity and lice sounds good about head hair but humans have been dealing with lice ever since we've been human if not before, yet short hair on military men is relatively recent.
So when do get a coif and cap? Come on Matt you know you want to
Can confirm, hair makes good impact protection
Source: slowly losing mine over the course of decades while refusing to accept that I am getting older and shouldn't be doing things that involves getting hit over the head 😁
one can have hair before put a mail on the head, then the mail take away all the hair
Your fencing jacket looks like a kung fu jacket lol
At start of every there is sound of bells Indians I gess
NOR-MAAAAN
There is a good reason why your own eyebrows are where they are
Soldiers on manuscripts don't have chinstraps either.
Easy to adjust, but I'm not going to.
After watching this video, I think Matt MIGHT be bald. Just a possibility.
Might the tapestry makers have taken artistic license to show faces?
To some extent, yes. It is in fact an embroidery rather than a tapestry, although everyone calls it a tapestry. I have seen it and it is smaller than most people think, but spectacularly beautiful. It was (probably) commissioned by Bishop Odo, and designed by monks, and stitched by ladies, none of whom had ever seen an actual battle. It was finished 11 years after the battle it portrays, and a large part of its purpose was propaganda. However, people like Matt base their provisional conclusions on an intelligent review of a wide range of pictures and written sources, not just this one. There are also a very few surviving helmets and a lot can be inferred from their measurements. Interestingly (to me at least!) there are far more surviving bronze age helmets from over a thousand years earlier because bronze does not rust away.
So:
mail hood > cheekpieces?
Tim Pool should start wearing a late Saxon helmet every single day.
Why did they ever give up check pieces like the Romans had?
He went over that or did you miss that. A mail hood was the better solution. In addition to being easier to make mail offered better protection than the thin cheek pieces of the Romans.
Maybe thats why the haircut. Gives you that little extra set and you have the whole back of your neck exposed to shed heat.
It's well known that armorers don't have a social live
😂😂😂
I'm a Norman Hunter and I'll bite yer legs.
Mail will straight up rip your hair out
Your pacing is off the chart in this one Matt. Stepping forward and then back again every 3 seconds is so damn distracting once you see it. Got better towards the end of the video though.
I didn’t notice until you raised it. Now it’s distracting!
@@michaelfoster-brown463 I was happy before i noticed it, but now I have a hard time getting through some videos. :/
It is incredibly annoying once you start to notice it.
budgie smuggler...lol
NORMANS WutFace NORMANS WutFace NORMANS WutFace NORMANS WutFace NORMANS WutFace NORMANS WutFace NORMANS WutFace NORMANS WutFace NORMANS WutFace NORMANS WutFace
Is it normal to be Norman that is the question.
Well we were pretty much unstoppable of course we had good kit. Our other superpower was our magnificent castles which you are free to visit. We're also god damned beautiful so people like mating with us. Born conquerors. Our detractors like to point out the arrogance of our heavy cavalry in defeat but not their incredible power and effectiveness in victory.