In the past I've used high power audio amplifiers driving step-up transformers to power 400Hz devices. Such a setup allows both the voltage and frequency to be precisely adjusted, and it can be quite efficient if you use class D audio amplifiers (lots of cheap and powerful second hand class D car audio amplifiers out there). I've selected the transformers based on impedance matching. For instance, if the audio amplifier is rated for 400W RMS at 4 ohms, this means the amplifier will put out its maximum power output at 40VAC. If I want the system to output a maximum voltage of about 200VAC I would select a mains transformer with approximately a 220V primary, 40V secondary. Of course, I would wire it the other way around as a step-up.
mikeselectricstuff Wouldn't that be a great find! ever since I saw Ben Krasnow's cryocooler I've wanted one, but those mobile phone tower filters are a lot more expensive than they were back then. It certainly would be an easy liquid nitrogen project if was one.
What a great little fan, and nice experminets and teardown you did there. I suspect that the reason you were having a problem getting enough power into it was because the variac will have a core optimised to run at 50/60Hz and the efficiency will drop dramatically as the frequency deviates from the optimal. Blocking up the output on a fan will either slow down or speed up the fan depending upon how blocked it is - it's all down to the amount of work that the fan is doing... When partially blocked, the fan will have to work harder to push the air through, but when totally blocked the fan is no longer able to push the air through at all meaning that it is doing far less work now, and can therefore spin faster as a result. Keep up the good work - I love your videos. Cheers!!
You uncovered a counter intuitive property of fans, they generally are loaded highest in free air and lowest at little or no air flow. This becomes relevant when we re-purpose fans like furnace blowers, or your axial fan. If there is not enough resistance to air flow the motor burns up, so often a restrictor plate is required. Neat piece, thanks for posting.
That sounds like you refer to _squirrel cage blowers_ with forward-facing vanes. Backpressure reduces their motor load. However, if the vanes are tilted backward, they become insensitive to backpressure, but have to spin faster to make the same flow rate. Vanes which radiate straight out from the shaft have a backpressure response and characteristic flow that is in-between the other two types.
The cryo engine is a stirling motor run in reverse: An electric motor turns it, and it produces a temperature differential. Typically used to cool down IR sensors, and they go pretty low.
What about finding a VFD drive? A lot of them go past 50Hz. Oh and does it have enough power to spin up a PC fan to destruction like that Frankenstein vacuum cleaner?
Some great improvisation there, well done! I wonder is that used for starting up jet engines, assuming that an auxilliary power unit would be available to provide the initial 400Hz supply.
No this would not be able to provide enough air to start a jet engine. On most commercial aircraft the APU provides high volume, low pressure air direct to an air turbine starter, which in turn will spin up the engine. However yes the APU can also provide 115v AC at 400Hz. I agree with Jerzmacow that this is just a cooling fan however it's still a little small for cooling an Xbox in my opinion.
The CTI-CRYOGENICS part looks like(and sounds like) a relatively small stirling cycle cryocooler. Try running it for a few minutes, see if it gets chilly and/or warm anywhere.
+TheElectricnoob Oh. It seemed like a suicide attempt to try to cut such a pipe. If I recall, most of closed-loop coolers run at a metric fuckton of pressure exactly, or even more. To me it looked like the cold finger is on the bottom.
The Xbox 360 was a cramped design with an undersized heat sink. If the thermal design can't be changed WRT case size and/or heatsinks, the only option is more airflow. Small/Thin, Quiet, or Adequate Cooling. Pick any two. My computer's CPU is a Intel Core i7-4930k running at 3.4GHz. This processor is rated at 130w TDP. I prevented this from being a problem by choosing a good heatsink (Thermaltake NiC F4) and a large case with plenty of room for airflow (Cooler Master HAF XB). In my case I chose Quiet and Adequate Cooling. I regret nothing, as my computer lives under my desk in a space I would otherwise not be using.
Hi Tesla, I know this video is 5 years old now but do you happen to still have that vane axial fan? I would love to do an equipment teardown video on that for my YT channel.
In the last part of the video, what was the power supply? I came by a much smaller 400Hz electronics fan (signal corps, made by Globe Industries/TRW) and it needs 120V 400Hz. I have been thinking about using a large audio power amplifier (1000W+) to generate the frequency but that might have trouble reaching full voltage.
I was using a large 6kW RC airplane outrunner brushless motor being turned at 3500RPM by a milling machine, followed by a 3 phase variac in reverse to up the voltage. It didn't work very well, the best would be a proper VFD that can output 400Hz, you can find these on eBay or Aliexpress quite readily.
Tom McLellan I noticed that PC fans also speed up when the airflow is blocked off, doesn't matter what side is blocked. I would amuse its because the same air thats already spinning is spun around inside the fan instead of slow moving air having to be accelerated up to speed as it enters.
berni8k Yes, all fans speed up when blocked, the current draw also drops (Tim Hunkin showed this in the secret life of the vacuum cleaner). The reason for it being a bad idea is most fans also cool their own motor, and with a blockage... the motor burns out
Alan Cordwell That was my thought too. Throw it on a hole in a board with a nice rubber or plastic skirt and see what it does. Although, with the fact that when he blocked it off it actually reduced power, I wonder if the fan would end up crapping out when put under load that way.
Daniel G well they use centrifugal fans on big hovercraft and that type defo does unload the motor when the airflow is blocked. The solution is probably to govern the motor rpm to a constant figure. But, I'm thinking this is an induction motor, so it should reach synchronous speed and stay there- is that right?
Lower voltage requires more amps for the same power, which means thicker wires that weigh more. Lower frequency mean motors and alternators are heavier. Weight is the enemy of flight.
+65bug5 from what little research I did a while back my impression would be that the coil winding would delaminate and melt, because it would have a higher resistance and therefore more current draw than what the thin wires were designed for. one of the benefits of using 400 Hz power is a decrease in weight because of the ability to use the thinner gauge distribution wire and thinner gauge windings. going the opposite from 60 Hz to 50 Hz is also problematic, as Europe required a heavier gauge winding in motors to equal the same horsepower output of an identical 60 Hz motor for the 50 Hz systems.
Just some friendly 411 from a fellow hacker / maker / tinkerer. The only way to truly test a bearing, it must be put under a load, just spinning the bearing does nothing to tell you the condition! Great video buddy! Check out AvE channel with the same avatar I have, he is an engineer, 40,000 strong subs and great community! Cheers tesla500
In the past I've used high power audio amplifiers driving step-up transformers to power 400Hz devices.
Such a setup allows both the voltage and frequency to be precisely adjusted, and it can be quite efficient if you use class D audio amplifiers (lots of cheap and powerful second hand class D car audio amplifiers out there).
I've selected the transformers based on impedance matching. For instance, if the audio amplifier is rated for 400W RMS at 4 ohms, this means the amplifier will put out its maximum power output at 40VAC. If I want the system to output a maximum voltage of about 200VAC I would select a mains transformer with approximately a 220V primary, 40V secondary. Of course, I would wire it the other way around as a step-up.
That was an ingenious way of generating the required power, very interesting :)
you actually broke me by putting it on the 360. i love you.
I wonder if the cryoengine thing is a stirling cooler from an old thermal imager
The small cut pipe may have been a heat transfer pipe. I definitely agree it is a sterling engine cooler.
mikeselectricstuff Wouldn't that be a great find! ever since I saw Ben Krasnow's cryocooler I've wanted one, but those mobile phone tower filters are a lot more expensive than they were back then. It certainly would be an easy liquid nitrogen project if was one.
I went to a lan party with a 3 amp delta 12v 40mm blower gaffed to my 8800GT, needless to say they were quite unhappy with me.
What a great little fan, and nice experminets and teardown you did there. I suspect that the reason you were having a problem getting enough power into it was because the variac will have a core optimised to run at 50/60Hz and the efficiency will drop dramatically as the frequency deviates from the optimal. Blocking up the output on a fan will either slow down or speed up the fan depending upon how blocked it is - it's all down to the amount of work that the fan is doing... When partially blocked, the fan will have to work harder to push the air through, but when totally blocked the fan is no longer able to push the air through at all meaning that it is doing far less work now, and can therefore spin faster as a result. Keep up the good work - I love your videos. Cheers!!
You uncovered a counter intuitive property of fans, they generally are loaded highest in free air and lowest at little or no air flow. This becomes relevant when we re-purpose fans like furnace blowers, or your axial fan. If there is not enough resistance to air flow the motor burns up, so often a restrictor plate is required. Neat piece, thanks for posting.
That sounds like you refer to _squirrel cage blowers_ with forward-facing vanes. Backpressure reduces their motor load. However, if the vanes are tilted backward, they become insensitive to backpressure, but have to spin faster to make the same flow rate. Vanes which radiate straight out from the shaft have a backpressure response and characteristic flow that is in-between the other two types.
VFDs usually go up to just 400hz
The ending was awesome, haha
now that is very cool! and glad you fixed your red ring of death.
Coooool. Literally. Looking forward to a summer of fun videos.
Well done, that bit at the end. Taking some humor out of mikeselectricstuff's book, eh?
The cryo engine is a stirling motor run in reverse: An electric motor turns it, and it produces a temperature differential. Typically used to cool down IR sensors, and they go pretty low.
8:31 it looks like that coils just overheated
Haha, love the ending. Fun little experiment. :)
What about finding a VFD drive? A lot of them go past 50Hz.
Oh and does it have enough power to spin up a PC fan to destruction like that Frankenstein vacuum cleaner?
Some great improvisation there, well done!
I wonder is that used for starting up jet engines, assuming that an auxilliary power unit would be available to provide the initial 400Hz supply.
***** Ok. thanks!
***** It's very likely that this came out of some radar equipment, since the original owner was big into microwave radio and radar
No this would not be able to provide enough air to start a jet engine. On most commercial aircraft the APU provides high volume, low pressure air direct to an air turbine starter, which in turn will spin up the engine. However yes the APU can also provide 115v AC at 400Hz. I agree with Jerzmacow that this is just a cooling fan however it's still a little small for cooling an Xbox in my opinion.
Wow, that little fan sounds like the engine of a Embraer puddlejumper at takeoff speed!
Haha!
That motor is really impressive. I love these teardowns!!! :)
Subbed for the 360 cooling.
The cryoengine is probably reverse stirling cooler for cooling something, maybe thermal sensor? Maybe creating some liquids from gas, like nitrogen.
you can run the fan smootly with a frequention regulator or with a soft starter
The CTI-CRYOGENICS part looks like(and sounds like) a relatively small stirling cycle cryocooler. Try running it for a few minutes, see if it gets chilly and/or warm anywhere.
+TheElectricnoob Oh. It seemed like a suicide attempt to try to cut such a pipe. If I recall, most of closed-loop coolers run at a metric fuckton of pressure exactly, or even more.
To me it looked like the cold finger is on the bottom.
Coolest solution ever to RROD!
The reason why it speeds up is because it is creating a partial vacuum and therefore reducing the load on the blades and the motor.
Lachz10 They were blocking the output, though. That would create a -high- pressure inside the housing, not a vacuum.
I'm just guessing, but I think that fan is for the mechanic attitude indicator. It keeps the rotor of the gyro spinning. ( I presume...)
Hmmmm, I wonder why all X-box's were not fitted with this type of cooling?????
The Xbox 360 was a cramped design with an undersized heat sink. If the thermal design can't be changed WRT case size and/or heatsinks, the only option is more airflow.
Small/Thin, Quiet, or Adequate Cooling. Pick any two.
My computer's CPU is a Intel Core i7-4930k running at 3.4GHz.
This processor is rated at 130w TDP. I prevented this from being a problem by choosing a good heatsink (Thermaltake NiC F4) and a large case with plenty of room for airflow (Cooler Master HAF XB).
In my case I chose Quiet and Adequate Cooling. I regret nothing, as my computer lives under my desk in a space I would otherwise not be using.
wow you made that xbox quiet
Hi Tesla, I know this video is 5 years old now but do you happen to still have that vane axial fan? I would love to do an equipment teardown video on that for my YT channel.
Finally, 360's cooling issue fixed
i'm assuming that fans motor is also 3 phase? If so that would be very useful to use on a VFD. I want one. D:
RROD fix, brilliant hahaha, keep up the great videos ;)
In the last part of the video, what was the power supply? I came by a much smaller 400Hz electronics fan (signal corps, made by Globe Industries/TRW) and it needs 120V 400Hz. I have been thinking about using a large audio power amplifier (1000W+) to generate the frequency but that might have trouble reaching full voltage.
I was using a large 6kW RC airplane outrunner brushless motor being turned at 3500RPM by a milling machine, followed by a 3 phase variac in reverse to up the voltage. It didn't work very well, the best would be a proper VFD that can output 400Hz, you can find these on eBay or Aliexpress quite readily.
Ok I couldn't tell if the milling machine was still running in the background or whether you had some other solid-state power supply available.
nice camera it picks up the detail well what brand/model is it :)
mark ward Panasonic TM700
Not going to be that more noisy than 360 fans.
Metal ID too heats up a sample and you get a graph
Glad you are back! Your videos are really entertaining. You should put together a tip basket (paypal/patreon/etc), I'd throw a few bucks into it!
5:38 That sounded awsome
Nice hair dryer! :D
Can you replace the built in moter with a bldc moter?
As we all know, weight savings on aircraft is everything. This is why 400 Hz is used,on aircraft.
When you block the airflow does it not start to form a partial vacuum which reduces the friction on the blades ?
Tom McLellan I noticed that PC fans also speed up when the airflow is blocked off, doesn't matter what side is blocked. I would amuse its because the same air thats already spinning is spun around inside the fan instead of slow moving air having to be accelerated up to speed as it enters.
berni8k Yes, all fans speed up when blocked, the current draw also drops (Tim Hunkin showed this in the secret life of the vacuum cleaner). The reason for it being a bad idea is most fans also cool their own motor, and with a blockage... the motor burns out
berni8k How about 2 vacuum gauges. One at the Center of the fan and one at the outside. Just to see what's happening. ☺
Nice finger chopper tho
How about a hovercraft?
Alan Cordwell That was my thought too. Throw it on a hole in a board with a nice rubber or plastic skirt and see what it does.
Although, with the fact that when he blocked it off it actually reduced power, I wonder if the fan would end up crapping out when put under load that way.
Daniel G well they use centrifugal fans on big hovercraft and that type defo does unload the motor when the airflow is blocked. The solution is probably to govern the motor rpm to a constant figure.
But, I'm thinking this is an induction motor, so it should reach synchronous speed and stay there- is that right?
All that just to play sonic 06.
BlueFoxTV And it never even got past the loading screen XD
You made the Xbox 360 sound like a PS3 when it's hot
please make a video of a generator generates 220-240v ac~ 400hz and connect a 1hp induction motor to work
Maybe a way to get around the Xbox GPU issues at last!!!
That ending LMAO.
I dont see why the aveation cant use 12vac for most evrey thing but idk alot about aveation now
Lower voltage requires more amps for the same power, which means thicker wires that weigh more. Lower frequency mean motors and alternators are heavier. Weight is the enemy of flight.
Awesome ;) Thumbs up :)
Alex
Next step. Go shop yourself a APU turbine. Then you can power this.
Dude, I like your videos, but I hardly recommend you to use audio normalization. The differences in loudness are way to high.
what happen if you just give it 60 cycle
+65bug5 from what little research I did a while back my impression would be that the coil winding would delaminate and melt, because it would have a higher resistance and therefore more current draw than what the thin wires were designed for. one of the benefits of using 400 Hz power is a decrease in weight because of the ability to use the thinner gauge distribution wire and thinner gauge windings. going the opposite from 60 Hz to 50 Hz is also problematic, as Europe required a heavier gauge winding in motors to equal the same horsepower output of an identical 60 Hz motor for the 50 Hz systems.
awesome!!!!!
shame you could of sold that vaneaxial aircraft fan
But his xbox needed it
Just some friendly 411 from a fellow hacker / maker / tinkerer. The only way to truly test a bearing, it must be put under a load, just spinning the bearing does nothing to tell you the condition! Great video buddy! Check out AvE channel with the same avatar I have, he is an engineer, 40,000 strong subs and great community! Cheers tesla500
Amd stock cooler
electric turbo
that fan is MEAN
400Hz IS "normal"!
+Ryan Dunbar In aircraft, yes. The higher frequency means that transformers don't have to be as large and heavy as an equivalent power 60hz one.
TOO FUNNY!
lmao red ring
ZZZZZZZZZ