@@tinatimthompson3115 just giving some clarification to those who may have been mislead by the transcript spelling giving a very contrary message to what was actually spoken 🙂
Jesus spoke more about Hell, than He did of Heaven..Our grace comes from the fact that He (Jesus), took on that punishment on our behalf; to satisfy the debt that we've all incurred
Exactly! Christ Himself spoke more of Hell to drive home the point we need Him! People today seem to talk of God as this forgiving and loving being rather than Just and Holy. We take His love and mercy for granted and almost ignore how God hates sin and the sinner. When a sinner dies he doesn’t abolish the sin to Hell. He sends the SINNER for eternity.
That is a lie. Jesus spoke about hell a total of 9 times in Matthew, 3 times in Mark and 3 times in Luke and 0 in John. Jesus spoke about heaven over 50 times in Matthew, 10 times in Mark, over 20 times in Luke, and 9 times in John. The fact you would be such a liar about something we can simply examine by counting in the bible proves you have no credibility and should be dismissed as a phony.
@@lukeleonard3382He is both. "The LORD is gracious and merciful, slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love. The LORD is good to all, and his mercy is over all that he has made." Psalms 145:8-9
Isaiah 66:24 (NIV): "And they will go out and look on the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; the worms that eat them will not die, the fire that burns them will not be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind." Daniel 12:2 (NIV): "Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt."
Both of those verses show contradictions. The verse on Isaiah is misunderstood. And you’re misusing the one in Daniel 12. 1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. 2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. Taking the Bible out of context can lead you to eternal loss. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. In reality, the word hell, is known as Hades and not lake of fire
Isaiah 66:22-24 "For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain. And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord. And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh."
Hades is Greek. Why would that be in the OT? The concept of Sheol has changed significantly through Jewish history and has become conflated with Gehenna in the past 2000 years. Still not hell as Dante or most christians would imagine it though.
Hell in the in the Old Testiment was called Sheol. There are many reference in the Old Testiment using a word search for "Sheol", meaning "hell" in the New Testament. No allusions. But yet the word "hell" is found in Proverbs several times. Proverbs 23:14, 5:5, 15:24, 15:11, 7:27, 9:18 Psalms 55:15 Amos 9:2 Deuteronomy 32:222 Ezekiel 32:21, 32:15-17 Isaiah 14:9 Habakkuk 2:5 Numbers 16:33 uses the word "pit" The word "grave" is used as a place of eternal seperation from God also.
Isiah 14: 12-15 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. Yet thou shalt be brought down to HELL( ie Sheol ,) to the sides of the pit. So much for his biblical scholarship the young man
@@davidcosma Hell is a condition. It is what someone goes through when things are not going well. The Psalmist is stating that he sometimes is in heaven and is sometimes in hell. It is not talking about after he dies. He is using a metaphor.
@@pjdelucala It seems the metaphor is really about the omnipresence of God more than anything. There are other Psalms that are obviously about conditional highs and lows. That one not so much...
@@pjdelucala Once again... It's about God's omnipresence! Location, Location, Location! The preceding line says, "WHERE can I go from Your Spirit? Or WHERE can I flee from Your presence?" And the following says, "If I take the wings of the morning, And go to the other side of the sea," It's not about condition, but I really don't care if you want to think that... it's just poor exegesis. Isa 57 is about condition: “I live in a high and holy place, but also with one who is contrite and lowly in spirit" Psalm 57: "For great is your love, reaching to the heavens; your faithfulness reaches to the skies." Psalm 18: "The Lord is my rock, my fortress and my deliverer; my God is my rock, in whom I take refuge, my shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold." Isa 40: "They will soar on wings like eagles; they will run and not grow weary, they will walk and not be faint."
Proverbs 24:13 Withhold not correction from the child: if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die. Proverbs 23:14 Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.
Isaiah 5:14 King James Version 14 Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it.
Man this guy is good, breaks out Daniel chapter 12 without losing a Beat.. It's like asking a guitarist if he can play a mostly unknown song, and it's amazing that he knows it..
And Daniel 12:2 is a pseudo-graph, meaning it was written by an imposter. By the time Daniel was penned, it was already the early Greek empire and many jews were hellenized which included the afterlife being added to their belief system.
@@steviacandyman7892Nope wrong. Completely wrong. There are early books in the bible like Job(26:6), Psalms(Psalm 30:3) etc which mention the after life (sheol, which would be hades in greek). Sheol(hades) is even mentioned in some Psalms written by David. Infact if you read the book of Samuel, a Witch (necromancer) calls up the spirit of the Prophet Samuel from the grave, the afterlife (sheol). Cliff quotes the book of Daniel as an example to show the nature of the eternal judgement of God as that was what the man was debating about. Also Daniel was penned way before the hellenization of the jews, not to mention the idea of greek concepts seaping into their religious texts (old testament) is a ridiculous claim at such a time. As the last book of the old testament is the book of Malachi, which mostly likely proceeds or takes place around the time of the beginning of the greeks conquests and doesn't even mention them. The Book of Daniel is also included in the septuagint translation having all 12 chapters, the translation of the septuagint was done in the 3rd century BC under Ptolemy II Philadelphus. Also it wasnt all jews, but a small minority who became truly hellenized. They lived in a hellenistic world, but the jews still kept their own ways and traditions. It was forced upon them by Antiochus (IV) Epiphanes around 170BC. Then a great many jews became more hellenised, who later developed into the jewish faction, the Sadducees mentioned in the new testament Gospel accounts. Your argument doesnt even make sense. As the greeks didnt even invent the idea of an afterlife. They are way behind in the pecking order of people that the jews have interacted with. Yes greek language/ideas and phrases are used in the new testament, but they are in line with the old testament understanding of the afterlife and the use of greek concepts made it easier for the audience to understand. As the new testament was written for jewish and no jewish audiences, who both lived in a Greco/Roman world . This argument against the Book of Daniel and the record of the afterlife in the Old testament is a really wrong and is very poor.
Its very telling about how none believers more often than not base their rejection on a book they havent proofread. Those who actually pick it up rarely have with the goal of clarity, but rather to find what they can mock or find a way to legitimize their own bias for it.
Hell in the in the Old Testiment was called Sheol. There are many reference in the Old Testiment using a word search for "Sheol", meaning "hell" in the New Testament. No allusions. But yet the word "hell" is found in Proverbs several times. Proverbs 23:14, 5:5, 15:24, 15:11, 7:27, 9:18 Psalms 55:15 Amos 9:2 Deuteronomy 32:222 Ezekiel 32:21, 32:15-17 Isaiah 14:9 Habakkuk 2:5 Numbers 16:33 uses the word "pit" The word "grave" is used as a place of eternal seperation from God also. There are some that profess to be wise, but a simple word study shines light on his statement.
I wish I could just pick up a Bible and know exactly what verse to flip to in these situations. But as for right now, Google is my best friend 😂 it still gets the job done I guess. It would just be nice to remember the references to verses. Psalm 119:11 (yes I had to Google that one too to get the exact reference) It’s just encouraging to see such a strong man in the faith stand boldly and be so knowledgeable about pretty much anything thrown at him. And even when he doesn’t know and he answers some questions with “I do not know” because the Bible doesn’t specifically mention certain (very specific) themes.
I think that's the problem though, the dependence on Google will restrict the ability to remember verses. I say this as a person that Googles a lot of verses. If I'm having a discussion and I remember a particular text, but I don't remember exactly where it is, I'll google key words. In one of my older Bibles I would write key subjects and the texts, but again, it places dependency on something else. I don't think these methods are particularly bad. The infornation is there, you accept it, can paraphrase it but either don't know its location or quote verbatim, this could be evident of the Holy Spirit bringing it to your remembrance. But I believe the internet will reach a level of corruption where biblical information will either be removed or altered.
Jesus spoke more about hell than any other topic. Then He died, for the forgiveness of our sins, then He rose, and ascended back.to heaven, proving He was... is... God.
The OT prophets repeatedly speak of a time when the Holy One would have His “day” - a day of justice in which He would express His anger toward sin and visit judgment on sinners. They referred to this as “The Day of the Lord.” (Isaiah 2:12; 13:6, 9; Ezekiel 13:5, 30:3; Joel 1:15, 2:1,11,31; 3:14; Amos 5:18,20; Obadiah 1:15; Zephaniah 1:7,14; Zechariah 14:1; Malachi. 4:5).
Psalm 88 3-5 For my soul is full of trouble and my life draws near the grave. I am counted among those who go down to the pit; I am like a man without strength. I am set apart with the dead, like the slain who lie in the grave, whom you remember no more, who are cut off from your care.
We will all stand before God to be judged for our earthly deeds and I don't want to see shame and contempt. That to me would be worse than all of hells torments.
if the OT does not includr a plance in the afterlife for punishment -- then why do they have the sacrificial system? Hell appears in the NT because only THEN IS THERE A WAY A PERSON CAN CHOOSE TO ESCAPE IT
He actually had to pull out the bible on this one, I'm a little suprised but it makes sense. You cant know absolutely everything sometimes you gotta revisit stuff
So you believe he has the entire Bible committed to memory? He wanted to quote a passage not often referenced and he wanted to read it verbatim. What he did was to quote directly from the source. There was No ambiguity in his deliverance
The new testament reveals that which the old testament conceals. For the prophets they knew of it but could not quite see it. In the new testament Jesus reveals truth to the disciples after His resurection that they could not see and made clear His truth woven in the Old Testament.
NO IT DOES NOT. That is a rhyme invented by Christian evangelicals to make it sound cool. The new testament does not "reveal" something that was "concealed". For the first 3 centuries of Christianity, there WAS NO NEW TESTAMENT. Even when it was compiled, most people couldn't read or write, so what good was it?
Last verse of Isaiah, their worm does not die in the fire, that means they r there with their worms, just like God said the heavens stretch and earth is a circle 40:22
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it supposed to be that everyone went to purgatory to wait until the messiah came. If that's true then that would also explain why the old testament would have so little mention of Hell.
There are actually two different applications of the word hell in the Bible. one is the grave(Translation is the temporary abode of ALL who die) - an unconscious experience…the other is Translated as future & final punishment with fire - a very much conscious experience. Also, interestingly, anyone can experience the first but only unbelievers experience the second
Most people don't want to believe they are going to wreck their car until after their car is already wrecked. Most people don't want to believe they are going to pass until they are drawing on their very last struggled breath. Most people don't want to believe a family member is going to pass away until after that family member already passed away. Most people don't want to believe in hell, but those who end up in hell will believe in hell when they are there.
Deuteronomy 30:19; I call on heaven and earth as witnesses today that I have offered you life or death, blessings or curses. Choose life so that you and your descendants will live.
His question comes from a qualitative misunderstanding of the morais of the term "Hell" , its a translation of the words used to describe Tarturus, hades and hel, we get the word from the nordic regions and religions. Because we only had, before that word, the CONCEPT of being Away from the kingdom and light of god. The concept of burning in hel comes from the worshippers of Bhaal, long before the book of revelations. And the "contest" between yawheh and Bhaal. Where bhaal was worshiped with fire, nqd the burnt offerings for sins were called worship of bhaal by his priests. A single prophet said my god is greater than yours, and yours if he exists obeys my god. Built two altars of wood and sodden them with watwr. If your god is greater he may alite the altar by your devotion. I alone while your priests will pray, will ask god to burn my altar. To prove to you, that bhaal is no god, and fire does not obey him. But that for burning worship of a demon(pretender upon god) you shall in turn be burned outside of Gods light. Yawheh lit the prophets altar. And the prophet to prove his devotion and faith and the glory of god, stuck his hands into the fire. And he was not burned. And after that, the prophets of bhaal were gathered, caught and brought down into a valley, often lightless after midday, which it was at that point after the construction and pouring of water and prayer. And the priests were slaughtered in the low lightless valley for being pretenders and false prophets who worshipped a demon. Thats the actual biblical origin of the ideas of hell in the old testament as we know it from revelations. 1 kings chapter 18
There were differences between the major theological schools in the early church on the nature of hell and damnation, as well as both temporary and eternal punishment. Some of these options of meaning were preserved in the Epistles when Paul spoke of "those who are perishing" versus those who are saved (1 Cor 1), which could suggest that there was a perspective that those who are not saved simply cease to be after death and don't get everlasting existence in any form. If that is the case, "the worms who don't die" and the "fire that is not quenched" would be metaphors for a destruction that is total and can never be undone. That wouldn't explain the passages about "wailing and gnashing of teeth" unless those refer to some period prior to a damned soul's complete destruction as they behold it coming upon them and they despair as they see their end approaching. I mean, its not out of the question to consider that the conclusion the early Church eventually came to on this matter could be only one way of looking at a great Mystery that is difficult for the carnal man to grasp and may be impossible to fully reveal to the living. The traditions surrounding Lazarus after he was resurrected by Christ say that he became a Bishop of a city in Cyprus and except for one moment remained the rest of his life in total seriousness due to what he witnessed when he was dead. Apparently, he was not willing to speak much about it or perhaps he simply couldn't if it was impossible to describe. Regardless of the answer, I hope in Christ's salvation so as not to have to experience that.
JESUS ✝️ CLEARLY IS GOD 💜✝️🕊 JESUS ✝️ TALKED ABOUT HELL ... 70 TIMES ,IN THE NEW TESTAMENT FOR ME THATS ANSWERING THIS QUESTION... GOD 💜✝️🕊 IS WAY ABOVE MY PAY GRADE ... GOD💜✝️🕊 WROTE THE WHOLE BIBLE SO THE BIBLE ... IS SIMPLY IN 2 PARTS OLD COVENANT... APPEARING TO FAIL GOD💜✝️🕊 THEN WROTE THE NEW TESTAMENT GOD💜✝️🕊 IS ❤ LOVE❤ 1st JOHN 4:8,16 HE ❤LOVES❤US SO MUCH. HE MADE IT VERY SIMPLE TO BE SAVED ... SEE THE TRUTH ,WE ARE FAILING 🥴 TURN BELIEVE & ACCEPT BY FAITH IN WHO JESUS ✝️ IS & BELIEVE WHAT HE SAID ... THE HOLY SPIRIT 🕊 MOVES IN WE ARE REBORN & ARE JUSTIFIED.. HE SANCTIFIES US & IS CLEANING US UP .. TOBE USED HERE, THEN TO GO HOME WHEN GODS💜✝️🕊 READY FOR US ☝️💯❤️💜✝️🕊🥰😍❤️💜❤️💜❤️💜 HOME IS TO LIVE WITH GOD 💜✝️🕊 IN HEAVEN FOR EVER & EVER ☝️💯❤️💜
pretty simple and logic cuz Old Testament still teaching and preparing for The Messiah in which Whoever Believe In Jesus Will Inherit The Eternal Life,and Who Dsnt Believe In Him Will Face The Eternal Damnation There Was (and still) The 10 Commandments and whoever disobey These Commandments Will Be Sentenced To Death until The Messiah Comes and He Will Judge Him (The Father Gives The Authority To The Son) and if they Accept Jesus As Their Lord And God and Some of Their Actions Were Good (even though they did sin) then they will be in Heaven ,if not then they will be in Hell there was no chance before The Messiah ,but With The coming Of The Messiah ,The Salvation Comes With Him🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
Paul mentions Hades once, and it's in reference to believers. 1 Cor 15. It's the state of the dead. Paul knows nothing of God torturing people with fire. The references to "weeping and gnashing of teeth" make no mention of fire and are made in reference to "Servants" (in Matthew 8 to "sons of the Kingdom"). The reference to being thrown into the pit where the fire is not quenched is a quote from Isaiah 66:24 and involves "carcasses" on the earth. The idea of a fiery torture chamber run by God is from Greek mythology.
Hell... separated from the eternal God is Hell. The wage of sin is death. Death as defined in the Holy Bible is separation from God. God bless you greatly in Jesus' Holy Name!
@@steviacandyman7892 We are Body , soul, and spirit. Genesis 2:17. Adam did not kill over when he ate the forbidden fruit. This death is the separation from God. A spiritual death. The Hebrew scripture is clear. From the beginning, Jesus has been the way to connect us back to God. God bless you greatly in Jesus' Holy Name!
@@listen2FSHS - First of all it says in Genesis that the Spirit of life in the body becomes a living soul. The soul is not something you have, it is something you are according to that. Nowhere in Genesis does it say "spiritual" death. You are adding to what it says which also means you are not reading it literally.
@@steviacandyman7892 yes the soul is who you are but the spirit is the life of the Soul. Fear not the one that can kill the body, but the one who can kill the soul .
There is nothing in the New Testament that says that Hell is a place of eternal punishment. It only describes Sheol as being a place with two sides one for the wicked and one for the believers. The troment comes form being separted form God not being put in a place.
"There is nothing in the New Testament that says that Hell is a place of eternal punishment" Rev 20:10, 14-15 "and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. ... Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire."
He was created as a prison for the fallen. The "everlasting contempt" is a destruction that is permanent. Eternal life is for the righteous. The damned are wiped from existence
Jesus Christ himself described hell as a place where the fire is not quenched, the worm does not die, and the torment of those in hell shall last forever. I will believe the words of my Savior over your misconceptions.
Questioning and doubting the Bible instead of taking time to study the knowledge of the Bible. Faith is not to question a thing except to believe and trust in God. The existence is out of our reach to understand it all in our small human minds...
Come on Cliff? Job 26:6 Sheol is naked before God, and Abaddon has no covering. Proverbs 15:11 Hell and destruction are before the LORD: how much more then the hearts of the children of men?
Out context, that’s not what the verse is saying, theirs no hell right now as we think of it and if you carefully read the Bible you’ll come to know why
That because the translator of the KJV add hell to the Bible. Hebrew word is actually translated grave or land of the dead not hell. The translation of KJV changed and add a few things.
It makes no sense to argue against hell in the old testament because even people who are religiously Jewish believe in hell just as they believe in heaven in Judaism they believe in both heaven and hell and they follow the Torah which is the first five books of the old testament
What's it all about Alfie. It's nuts that were even alive that we exist at all the universe. I was once told the reason that we are here is the seek out God where we were before and where we are to go who can say but the Lord. Just saying
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*allusions - not "illusions"
Apologies for the error in transcript
Feel better??
@@tinatimthompson3115 just giving some clarification to those who may have been mislead by the transcript spelling giving a very contrary message to what was actually spoken 🙂
Definitely helped thanks for that man! Sometimes we hear what we read
@robert1411 I'm sorry, you're right...
Peace 💕
I like how he quietly pages the bible.
Jesus spoke more about Hell, than He did of Heaven..Our grace comes from the fact that He (Jesus), took on that punishment on our behalf; to satisfy the debt that we've all incurred
Exactly! Christ Himself spoke more of Hell to drive home the point we need Him! People today seem to talk of God as this forgiving and loving being rather than Just and Holy. We take His love and mercy for granted and almost ignore how God hates sin and the sinner. When a sinner dies he doesn’t abolish the sin to Hell. He sends the SINNER for eternity.
That is a lie. Jesus spoke about hell a total of 9 times in Matthew, 3 times in Mark and 3 times in Luke and 0 in John. Jesus spoke about heaven over 50 times in Matthew, 10 times in Mark, over 20 times in Luke, and 9 times in John. The fact you would be such a liar about something we can simply examine by counting in the bible proves you have no credibility and should be dismissed as a phony.
@@lukeleonard3382He is both. "The LORD is gracious and merciful, slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love. The LORD is good to all, and his mercy is over all that he has made." Psalms 145:8-9
Well the question is about the Old Testament
To continue in sin is to crucify Christ.
Isaiah 66:24 (NIV):
"And they will go out and look on the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; the worms that eat them will not die, the fire that burns them will not be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind."
Daniel 12:2 (NIV):
"Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt."
🤔~✝️👨🏫👍
Both of those verses show contradictions. The verse on Isaiah is misunderstood. And you’re misusing the one in Daniel 12.
1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Taking the Bible out of context can lead you to eternal loss.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
In reality, the word hell, is known as Hades and not lake of fire
JESUS SAYS ITS THERE I BELIVE HIM PERIOD
@@vlmmnadet1304 I'm sorry, but what was the point you wanted to make their?
@@vlmmnadet1304 it says hell right in your version of the passage
I'm glad that the first guy didn't immediately assume that Cliffe didn't have something to back up his claim when he opened up his Bible.
Isaiah 66:22-24
"For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain. And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord. And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh."
Sheol and hades. were mentioned. hades being another word for hell
That is true, it may have never said “hell” exactly, but it did mention other words such as those, which is a synonym
Hades is Greek. Why would that be in the OT?
The concept of Sheol has changed significantly through Jewish history and has become conflated with Gehenna in the past 2000 years. Still not hell as Dante or most christians would imagine it though.
Yes, Sheol is a place without God. After life on earth, you are either with or without God.
Hades/Limbus is the underworld where souls of the dead ones ended and got judged. It is not hell.
Hell in the in the Old Testiment was called Sheol. There are many reference in the Old Testiment using a word search for "Sheol", meaning "hell" in the New Testament. No allusions.
But yet the word "hell" is found in Proverbs several times.
Proverbs 23:14, 5:5, 15:24, 15:11, 7:27, 9:18
Psalms 55:15
Amos 9:2
Deuteronomy 32:222
Ezekiel 32:21, 32:15-17
Isaiah 14:9
Habakkuk 2:5
Numbers 16:33 uses the word "pit"
The word "grave" is used as a place of eternal seperation from God also.
Isiah 14: 12-15
How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. Yet thou shalt be brought down to HELL( ie Sheol ,) to the sides of the pit.
So much for his biblical scholarship the young man
"For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell,..." Deuteronomy 32:22 KJV
Psalm 139: If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.
Hell is a reference to the grave in this verse. Hell by definition is a pit, hole, grave. "Hell fire" is a pit with a fire burning in it.
@@davidcosma Hell is a condition. It is what someone goes through when things are not going well. The Psalmist is stating that he sometimes is in heaven and is sometimes in hell. It is not talking about after he dies. He is using a metaphor.
@@pjdelucala It seems the metaphor is really about the omnipresence of God more than anything. There are other Psalms that are obviously about conditional highs and lows. That one not so much...
@@onestoptechnologies7305 But this Psalm refers to heaven and hell BEFORE one dies. So it is about a person's condition.
@@pjdelucala Once again... It's about God's omnipresence! Location, Location, Location!
The preceding line says, "WHERE can I go from Your Spirit? Or WHERE can I flee from Your presence?"
And the following says, "If I take the wings of the morning, And go to the other side of the sea,"
It's not about condition, but I really don't care if you want to think that... it's just poor exegesis.
Isa 57 is about condition: “I live in a high and holy place, but also with one who is contrite and lowly in spirit"
Psalm 57: "For great is your love, reaching to the heavens; your faithfulness reaches to the skies."
Psalm 18: "The Lord is my rock, my fortress and my deliverer; my God is my rock, in whom I take refuge,
my shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold."
Isa 40: "They will soar on wings like eagles; they will run and not grow weary, they will walk and not be faint."
Proverbs 24:13
Withhold not correction from the child: if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die.
Proverbs 23:14
Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.
Isaiah 5:14
King James Version
14 Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it.
Man this guy is good, breaks out Daniel chapter 12 without losing a Beat.. It's like asking a guitarist if he can play a mostly unknown song, and it's amazing that he knows it..
And Daniel 12:2 is a pseudo-graph, meaning it was written by an imposter. By the time Daniel was penned, it was already the early Greek empire and many jews were hellenized which included the afterlife being added to their belief system.
@@steviacandyman7892Nope wrong. Completely wrong. There are early books in the bible like Job(26:6), Psalms(Psalm 30:3) etc which mention the after life (sheol, which would be hades in greek).
Sheol(hades) is even mentioned in some Psalms written by David. Infact if you read the book of Samuel, a Witch (necromancer) calls up the spirit of the Prophet Samuel from the grave, the afterlife (sheol).
Cliff quotes the book of Daniel as an example to show the nature of the eternal judgement of God as that was what the man was debating about.
Also Daniel was penned way before the hellenization of the jews, not to mention the idea of greek concepts seaping into their religious texts (old testament) is a ridiculous claim at such a time. As the last book of the old testament is the book of Malachi, which mostly likely proceeds or takes place around the time of the beginning of the greeks conquests and doesn't even mention them. The Book of Daniel is also included in the septuagint translation having all 12 chapters, the translation of the septuagint was done in the 3rd century BC under Ptolemy II Philadelphus. Also it wasnt all jews, but a small minority who became truly hellenized. They lived in a hellenistic world, but the jews still kept their own ways and traditions. It was forced upon them by Antiochus (IV) Epiphanes around 170BC. Then a great many jews became more hellenised, who later developed into the jewish faction, the Sadducees mentioned in the new testament Gospel accounts.
Your argument doesnt even make sense. As the greeks didnt even invent the idea of an afterlife. They are way behind in the pecking order of people that the jews have interacted with. Yes greek language/ideas and phrases are used in the new testament, but they are in line with the old testament understanding of the afterlife and the use of greek concepts made it easier for the audience to understand. As the new testament was written for jewish and no jewish audiences, who both lived in a Greco/Roman world .
This argument against the Book of Daniel and the record of the afterlife in the Old testament is a really wrong and is very poor.
@@steviacandyman7892THANK YOU
@@steviacandyman7892 The critical scholars evidence for that is that Daniel's prophecies about the Greek empire came true.
@@morefiction3264 Easy to do when Daniel was written in the 2nd century BCE.
For You will not abandon my soul to Sheol;
You will not allow Your Holy One to undergo decay. Psalm 16:10
Its very telling about how none believers more often than not base their rejection on a book they havent proofread. Those who actually pick it up rarely have with the goal of clarity, but rather to find what they can mock or find a way to legitimize their own bias for it.
Hell in the in the Old Testiment was called Sheol. There are many reference in the Old Testiment using a word search for "Sheol", meaning "hell" in the New Testament. No allusions.
But yet the word "hell" is found in Proverbs several times.
Proverbs 23:14, 5:5, 15:24, 15:11, 7:27, 9:18
Psalms 55:15
Amos 9:2
Deuteronomy 32:222
Ezekiel 32:21, 32:15-17
Isaiah 14:9
Habakkuk 2:5
Numbers 16:33 uses the word "pit"
The word "grave" is used as a place of eternal seperation from God also.
There are some that profess to be wise, but a simple word study shines light on his statement.
I wish I could just pick up a Bible and know exactly what verse to flip to in these situations. But as for right now, Google is my best friend 😂 it still gets the job done I guess. It would just be nice to remember the references to verses.
Psalm 119:11 (yes I had to Google that one too to get the exact reference)
It’s just encouraging to see such a strong man in the faith stand boldly and be so knowledgeable about pretty much anything thrown at him. And even when he doesn’t know and he answers some questions with “I do not know” because the Bible doesn’t specifically mention certain (very specific) themes.
I think that's the problem though, the dependence on Google will restrict the ability to remember verses. I say this as a person that Googles a lot of verses. If I'm having a discussion and I remember a particular text, but I don't remember exactly where it is, I'll google key words.
In one of my older Bibles I would write key subjects and the texts, but again, it places dependency on something else. I don't think these methods are particularly bad. The infornation is there, you accept it, can paraphrase it but either don't know its location or quote verbatim, this could be evident of the Holy Spirit bringing it to your remembrance.
But I believe the internet will reach a level of corruption where biblical information will either be removed or altered.
Now I know, I learned something new, something useful, thank you Jesus❤✝️
Just the fact that Jesus said it is enough, he talked more of hell than heaven, Jonah mentions it when he was in the belly of the great fish
Lord Jesus save and have mercy on us all, amen.
Some people woulda started screaming that he didn’t know his stuff when he picked up the Bible- respect this guy for waiting!
It wouldn't matter if God mentioned/created Hell before or after the Old Testament. Hell would still exist.
Then it would prove God doesn't care about people who go there
@steviacandyman7892 God will not force himself upon anyone. However, there's consequence to the action of not accepting Christ.
@@ryanawilson8549 - By creating a person, God already forced himself on them.
Then you admit you worship an evil piece of shit rigth?
@@steviacandyman7892you get it !!!!
Thank you for preaching the good word brother! Your work is appreciated beyond belief! ❤
Jesus spoke more about hell than any other topic. Then He died, for the forgiveness of our sins, then He rose, and ascended back.to heaven, proving He was... is... God.
Because Jesus is the one returning to judge the wicked
Jesus came to reveal the truth. You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free. ❤😊
Good point Sir, some to shame some to everlasting contempt. Daniel Chapter 12 Verse 2.
The OT prophets repeatedly speak of a time when the Holy One would have His “day” - a day of justice in which He would express His anger toward sin and visit judgment on sinners. They referred to this as “The Day of the Lord.” (Isaiah 2:12; 13:6, 9; Ezekiel 13:5, 30:3; Joel 1:15, 2:1,11,31; 3:14; Amos 5:18,20; Obadiah 1:15; Zephaniah 1:7,14; Zechariah 14:1; Malachi. 4:5).
I see the evil smile of the satanic spirit in the young man saying that there’s no hell!
it's not that deep.
Maybe he was expecting a gotcha moment.
Best thing to do is give people the benefit of doubt
Psalm 88 3-5
For my soul is full of trouble and my life draws near the grave.
I am counted among those who go down to the pit; I am like a man without strength.
I am set apart with the dead, like the slain who lie in the grave, whom you remember no more, who are cut off from your care.
The separation from God will make pain nothing. People don’t understand that even if they deny God his presence keeps us together.
Nice to see respectful dialog
We will all stand before God to be judged for our earthly deeds and I don't want to see shame and contempt. That to me would be worse than all of hells torments.
if the OT does not includr a plance in the afterlife for punishment -- then why do they have the sacrificial system? Hell appears in the NT because only THEN IS THERE A WAY A PERSON CAN CHOOSE TO ESCAPE IT
He actually had to pull out the bible on this one, I'm a little suprised but it makes sense. You cant know absolutely everything sometimes you gotta revisit stuff
So you believe he has the entire Bible committed to memory?
He wanted to quote a passage not often referenced and he wanted to read it verbatim.
What he did was to quote directly from the source.
There was No ambiguity in his deliverance
PSALMS 138:8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: If I make my bed in hell,...
The fact that they are two different covenants and that the idea of being "saved" stated explicitly in the New Testament doesn't hurt either.
He speaks the truth. ❤
There are plenty here are just a few: Psalm 139:8, Deuteronomy 32:22, Job 11:8, Psalm 55:15, Proverbs 15:24, Isaiah 14:15, there are more.
I don't know if im wrong, but the old testament talks about sheol, which is hell right? Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Wonder if Mr. Smug learned the error of his statement? Great comments with Scriptures, thanks!
The new testament reveals that which the old testament conceals. For the prophets they knew of it but could not quite see it. In the new testament Jesus reveals truth to the disciples after His resurection that they could not see and made clear His truth woven in the Old Testament.
NO IT DOES NOT. That is a rhyme invented by Christian evangelicals to make it sound cool. The new testament does not "reveal" something that was "concealed". For the first 3 centuries of Christianity, there WAS NO NEW TESTAMENT. Even when it was compiled, most people couldn't read or write, so what good was it?
The yoinger guy makes a GOOD POINT 🎉
Last verse of Isaiah, their worm does not die in the fire, that means they r there with their worms, just like God said the heavens stretch and earth is a circle 40:22
Grab Christ's hand. He wants yours.
Yes there are notes in the OT: "Sheol". Look it up.
Yes it was mentioned I. The d testament it was called “SHEOL”
Beautifully said …Contempt = willingness to be disrespectful or disobedient to someone or something in Reality or Ether
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it supposed to be that everyone went to purgatory to wait until the messiah came. If that's true then that would also explain why the old testament would have so little mention of Hell.
There are actually two different applications of the word hell in the Bible. one is the grave(Translation is the temporary abode of ALL who die) - an unconscious experience…the other is Translated as future & final punishment with fire - a very much conscious experience. Also, interestingly, anyone can experience the first but only unbelievers experience the second
"Okay" with contemptuous attitude. Not an okay of "oh wow this answers my question of doubt"
BOOM, bro Cliff strikes again
Amen Bro!🙏🏻✝️
In the old testament it was called “SHEOL AND HADES”
Jesus is the fulfillment of the old testament.
Name ONE thing Jesus fulfilled.
That "Okay" said it all.
Most people don't want to believe they are going to wreck their car until after their car is already wrecked.
Most people don't want to believe they are going to pass until they are drawing on their very last struggled breath.
Most people don't want to believe a family member is going to pass away until after that family member already passed away.
Most people don't want to believe in hell, but those who end up in hell will believe in hell when they are there.
Sheol is mentioned so many times in old testament
What about the 2 brothers one in heaven the other firing pit
Wasn’t it numbers where the earth opened up and brought people bodily into the fiery pit?
Everlasting contempt _ pretty clear !
Why didn't this Bible "teacher" not mention Sheol? It is mentioned often in the Old Testament as a place of punishment. Read Isaiah 14.
Deuteronomy 30:19; I call on heaven and earth as witnesses today that I have offered you life or death, blessings or curses. Choose life so that you and your descendants will live.
Cool to see the intellectual exchange
I have decided that Hell is to be shut down. I am the way the light
His question comes from a qualitative misunderstanding of the morais of the term "Hell" , its a translation of the words used to describe Tarturus, hades and hel, we get the word from the nordic regions and religions. Because we only had, before that word, the CONCEPT of being Away from the kingdom and light of god.
The concept of burning in hel comes from the worshippers of Bhaal, long before the book of revelations. And the "contest" between yawheh and Bhaal.
Where bhaal was worshiped with fire, nqd the burnt offerings for sins were called worship of bhaal by his priests. A single prophet said my god is greater than yours, and yours if he exists obeys my god.
Built two altars of wood and sodden them with watwr. If your god is greater he may alite the altar by your devotion. I alone while your priests will pray, will ask god to burn my altar. To prove to you, that bhaal is no god, and fire does not obey him. But that for burning worship of a demon(pretender upon god) you shall in turn be burned outside of Gods light.
Yawheh lit the prophets altar. And the prophet to prove his devotion and faith and the glory of god, stuck his hands into the fire. And he was not burned. And after that, the prophets of bhaal were gathered, caught and brought down into a valley, often lightless after midday, which it was at that point after the construction and pouring of water and prayer. And the priests were slaughtered in the low lightless valley for being pretenders and false prophets who worshipped a demon.
Thats the actual biblical origin of the ideas of hell in the old testament as we know it from revelations.
1 kings chapter 18
So what’s the answer to his question?
Here we go…” what if…” what about…” how come…” bs if “ HELL was found on every page of the O.T. would you believe in…Christ… as Saviour…?????❤
Amen
I count 54 mentions of the word hell in the Old Testament. Study to shew thyself approved unto God.
There were differences between the major theological schools in the early church on the nature of hell and damnation, as well as both temporary and eternal punishment. Some of these options of meaning were preserved in the Epistles when Paul spoke of "those who are perishing" versus those who are saved (1 Cor 1), which could suggest that there was a perspective that those who are not saved simply cease to be after death and don't get everlasting existence in any form. If that is the case, "the worms who don't die" and the "fire that is not quenched" would be metaphors for a destruction that is total and can never be undone. That wouldn't explain the passages about "wailing and gnashing of teeth" unless those refer to some period prior to a damned soul's complete destruction as they behold it coming upon them and they despair as they see their end approaching. I mean, its not out of the question to consider that the conclusion the early Church eventually came to on this matter could be only one way of looking at a great Mystery that is difficult for the carnal man to grasp and may be impossible to fully reveal to the living. The traditions surrounding Lazarus after he was resurrected by Christ say that he became a Bishop of a city in Cyprus and except for one moment remained the rest of his life in total seriousness due to what he witnessed when he was dead. Apparently, he was not willing to speak much about it or perhaps he simply couldn't if it was impossible to describe. Regardless of the answer, I hope in Christ's salvation so as not to have to experience that.
Amen💕🙌❤️🙏
Man’s got his receipts
JESUS ✝️ CLEARLY IS GOD 💜✝️🕊
JESUS ✝️ TALKED ABOUT HELL ...
70 TIMES ,IN THE NEW TESTAMENT
FOR ME THATS ANSWERING THIS
QUESTION...
GOD 💜✝️🕊 IS WAY ABOVE MY PAY GRADE ...
GOD💜✝️🕊 WROTE THE WHOLE BIBLE SO THE BIBLE ... IS SIMPLY IN 2 PARTS OLD COVENANT... APPEARING TO FAIL
GOD💜✝️🕊 THEN WROTE THE NEW TESTAMENT
GOD💜✝️🕊 IS ❤ LOVE❤
1st JOHN 4:8,16
HE ❤LOVES❤US SO MUCH. HE MADE IT VERY SIMPLE TO BE SAVED ...
SEE THE TRUTH ,WE ARE FAILING 🥴
TURN BELIEVE & ACCEPT BY FAITH IN WHO JESUS ✝️ IS & BELIEVE WHAT HE SAID ... THE HOLY SPIRIT 🕊 MOVES IN WE ARE REBORN & ARE JUSTIFIED..
HE SANCTIFIES US & IS CLEANING US UP ..
TOBE USED HERE, THEN TO GO HOME WHEN GODS💜✝️🕊 READY FOR US
☝️💯❤️💜✝️🕊🥰😍❤️💜❤️💜❤️💜
HOME IS TO LIVE WITH GOD 💜✝️🕊 IN HEAVEN FOR EVER & EVER ☝️💯❤️💜
An even more direct reference is Isaiah 33:14.
In the fullness of time
It mentions Hades several times. In Ezekiel,and in Isiah.
pretty simple and logic cuz Old Testament still teaching and preparing for The Messiah in which Whoever Believe In Jesus Will Inherit The Eternal Life,and Who Dsnt Believe In Him Will Face The Eternal Damnation
There Was (and still) The 10 Commandments
and whoever disobey These Commandments Will Be Sentenced To Death until The Messiah Comes and He Will Judge Him (The Father Gives The Authority To The Son) and if they Accept Jesus As Their Lord And God and Some of Their Actions Were Good (even though they did sin) then they will be in Heaven ,if not then they will be in Hell
there was no chance before The Messiah ,but With The coming Of The Messiah ,The Salvation Comes With Him🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
The Old Testament mentions Sheol
Numbers 16:32...Korah and the sons of Levi, were cast alive, body and soul, into the pit; where they are currently being reserved for judgement.
Paul mentions Hades once, and it's in reference to believers. 1 Cor 15. It's the state of the dead. Paul knows nothing of God torturing people with fire. The references to "weeping and gnashing of teeth" make no mention of fire and are made in reference to "Servants" (in Matthew 8 to "sons of the Kingdom"). The reference to being thrown into the pit where the fire is not quenched is a quote from Isaiah 66:24 and involves "carcasses" on the earth. The idea of a fiery torture chamber run by God is from Greek mythology.
Just realized that this verse describes spirit prison.
Hell... separated from the eternal God is Hell. The wage of sin is death. Death as defined in the Holy Bible is separation from God. God bless you greatly in Jesus' Holy Name!
Where does it say that is in the bible?
@@steviacandyman7892 We are Body , soul, and spirit. Genesis 2:17. Adam did not kill over when he ate the forbidden fruit. This death is the separation from God. A spiritual death. The Hebrew scripture is clear. From the beginning, Jesus has been the way to connect us back to God. God bless you greatly in Jesus' Holy Name!
@@listen2FSHS - First of all it says in Genesis that the Spirit of life in the body becomes a living soul. The soul is not something you have, it is something you are according to that. Nowhere in Genesis does it say "spiritual" death. You are adding to what it says which also means you are not reading it literally.
@@steviacandyman7892 yes the soul is who you are but the spirit is the life of the Soul. Fear not the one that can kill the body, but the one who can kill the soul .
@@listen2FSHS You are making Christianity a big fat joke. Thanks for that.
Jesus described Hell with the phrase “weeping and gnashing of teeth”, which means there will be sorrow and pain. Hell is not a good place to be.
it boggles my mind how someone can use vague words from an old book to justify any argument at all.
There is nothing in the New Testament that says that Hell is a place of eternal punishment. It only describes Sheol as being a place with two sides one for the wicked and one for the believers. The troment comes form being separted form God not being put in a place.
"There is nothing in the New Testament that says that Hell is a place of eternal punishment"
Rev 20:10, 14-15 "and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. ...
Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire."
He was created as a prison for the fallen. The "everlasting contempt" is a destruction that is permanent. Eternal life is for the righteous. The damned are wiped from existence
Jesus Christ himself described hell as a place where the fire is not quenched, the worm does not die, and the torment of those in hell shall last forever.
I will believe the words of my Savior over your misconceptions.
Job
Exactly.
Questioning and doubting the Bible instead of taking time to study the knowledge of the Bible. Faith is not to question a thing except to believe and trust in God. The existence is out of our reach to understand it all in our small human minds...
So don't use logic and reason
Got it
Come on Cliff?
Job 26:6
Sheol is naked before God, and Abaddon has no covering.
Proverbs 15:11
Hell and destruction are before the LORD: how much more then the hearts of the children of men?
Isn’t there the concept of Sheol, coming from Hebrew for the defining place in the underworld?
Everyone went to sheol according to the old testament.
Out context, that’s not what the verse is saying, theirs no hell right now as we think of it and if you carefully read the Bible you’ll come to know why
Hell has changed over time, so has heaven
Its whatever is needed for the church to keep butts in seats and the collection plate full
You're overly cynical. Take Daniel 12:2 to heart and don't be awakened to everlasting contempt...
That because the translator of the KJV add hell to the Bible.
Hebrew word is actually translated grave or land of the dead not hell.
The translation of KJV changed and add a few things.
Hell also in Psalms
Y’all heard the hammer at the end of
😄...the conversation is happening in public so its the surrounding noise
@@Eagerly_Awaits_Christ_Return that’s what I saw/heard 🤷🏽♂️
Enoch, a second temple book , is absolutely riddled with hell/sheol and the lake of fire
It makes no sense to argue against hell in the old testament because even people who are religiously Jewish believe in hell just as they believe in heaven in Judaism they believe in both heaven and hell and they follow the Torah which is the first five books of the old testament
In the Old Testament it was called SHEOL, the Hell comes from the Greek 'hades'!
What's it all about Alfie. It's nuts that were even alive that we exist at all the universe. I was once told the reason that we are here is the seek out God where we were before and where we are to go who can say but the Lord. Just saying