A Complete Guide to Stability in Running Shoes
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- Опубликовано: 31 май 2024
- If you know anything about Doctors of Running, you know we care a lot about stability and helping you find the best shoe for you. On this episode, Matt Klein breaks down stability, both in shoes and in biomechanics. He also breaks down different methods brand use to add stability to their shoes. Ever been told you need a stability shoe? Ever wondered what sidewalls or sole flair are? This is the episode for you.
Chapters
0:00 - Intro
0:44 - Defining stability
5:25 - Defining pronation
9:12 - Defining supination
10:19 - The anatomy and mechanics of pronation
17:00 - Overview of stability methods
23:42 - Medial posts
25:02 - Shoe stiffness
26:38 - Sidewalls
28:28 - Sole flare
32:36 - Internal sole geometry
34:32 - Heel counters & upper stiffness
36:56 - How much stability do you need?
44:22 - Wrap-up
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We are a group of physical therapists and runners interested in the art and science of running shoes. Learn more by visiting doctorsofrunning.com 
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can you recommend daily shoes for flat feet and overpronation?
its hard to wear running shoes daily. (ex. school or work)
There is so much info here - animated graphics would be GREAT for this show.
Yes! As a non native speaker of English it's sometimes hard to follow the terms. A simple picture here and there would be much appreciated. Thanks anyway for the great content, been watching a lot of you guy's videos this weekend. So helpful to get a new understanding of all this marketing language and update my outdated knowledge. Been a few years since I ran, this adds to my motivation to get back into it!
@@ristyp This guy rattles off so much stuff so fast, he has all those concepts and ideas in his head and Im like - pause, 5sec pause, 5 sec pause!! HAHA so I can look up the foot structure to see how x and y works and moves. In this video - his multiple descriptions about stability shoes - what the different possible meanings of it means - that really helped me - esp to know one dr got me into the WRONG shoe for sure.
@@WadeSmart Watch it twice. Trust me. Trust you.
Potentially one of my favorite saying about running "you'll never learn too much" well said!
The amount of depth and complexity in this episode makes it so much clearer why having a simple way to assess whether a shoe will work well for someone (like the RUN-CAT) is so useful!
This is a great episode! In a perfect world the dropdown menus wouldn't just include "stability" but at least a few of these more specific terms so that we have a clearer sense of how the shoe does stability. I see far more reviewers talking about "X has a wide base so it's inherently more stable" but as you state, it's more complicated than one single factor. In the meantime, this is a nice glossary!
I started out with stability shoes but now can run in a wider variety of styles. My most stable marathon racer is the Adios Pro 3.
You try Saucony endorphin elite?
@@Faceless.702 I have not, but I tried the EP3s and they were too unstable for my mechanics.
20 years ago stability shoes ruined my runnin adventure due to 'knee pain' When I atarted running I bought the cheapest quality beand shoes. Never had injuries, but wanted to run seriously so did an analysis and needed heavy stabilised shoes with extra inlays. They ran terribly and injuries started, but at the time I did not realize the cause because I did a gait analysis so the shoes could not be the problem. I ended up quitting running. A few years ago I discovered by accident that barefoot (and more recent zero drop) shoes did not gave me any pain. I now run in 'neutral' zero drop shoes and have no more injuries and finally accomplished my Marathon dream. An Ultra is next.
This is one of my top favorite episodes. Would love if you could talk stability w/ Dr. Burns and midsole foam technology.
Great info! As the market moves towards softer and taller stacks, I find how brands stabilize a shoe has become a major factor of whether it works for me.
Very informative, as a flat foot runner it’s hard to find valuable content like this! Thanks
Thanks for the consistent and deep content! From one PT to another, your content has really helped broaden my understanding of shoe science and challenge my previous biases. Content continues to be both relevant for my patients and peers. Thanks again!
This is a great episode. As a stability runner it feels so limited.
I fortunately have never needed stability shoes (actually got some knee pain when a store clerk talked me into a pair of Hoka arahis), but it’s good to know more about what type of runners might benefit from them and how the tech has changed over the years. Great stuff as always.
LOVE this "stable neutral" category of shoes that has been popping up
This is truly the video I have been waiting for!!
Thank you for the information!
Great episode, thank you so much!!
This was a great discussion on stability. My stability needs have changed over the years. I no longer run in the Brooks Adrenaline or Hoka Arahi. Thank you for this episode.
Great info!
This was amazing!!! Thank you so much!!
Really great explanation!
I’ve learned so much about stability in running shoes from DoR. Really changed how I think about it. Keep up the great work!
Wow. Wow. Just WOW. I'm speechless. Thabknyou so much for gathering and bringing all this info to us. I stand reassured that buying A LOT ofbrunning shoes to sample the best for my running is the right way. But buying mindfully. What I found is since I pronate mildly (some loose upper shoes my foot slips inwards and off sole) and since I'm heavy I need a bit stiffer midsole - so it gives me some stability and doesn’t bottom down as I gait.
All in all today I use Adidas Boston 12 as a daily/tempo trainer, the not audience beloved Boston 11 as a stability version of B12 (400km run), and some other shoes as niche rotations (Nimbus 25 tonrecovery, Asics Noosa Tri 15 and Takumi Sen 8 as racing shoes).
And getting to this setting took me a lot of rewiew watchingbat YT and reading, and beyond that... using the shoe for 6 months.
Rewiews are awesome, but nothing replaces 6 months training over a shoe on good days and bad days.
And I have patelar chondromalacy (hope english spelling is right) and I as such I worry about knee and hip ... always thought about my shoes as gear to full gait movement.
Thanks for lots of info and showing I'm in the right direction.
Very reassuring, indeed! ❤🇧🇷👏💪
Another bit over the Adidas Boston Cluncky Brick 11: it started firmer and got softer after 100k, but is still firm. The heel cup is hard (doesn't bother me at all) and the upper cage does a really good grip at the top of my foot. This contributes superbly to my stability.
I tried a stability shoe with medial densr foam, and another with a "bump" midfoot to "help transitioning heel to toe ", but O found that pressing the arch of my foot gives me cramps...... After trying again and again I know how to feel the drip profile; hard to explain but I know some simply doesn't work for me.
Always interesting and learned something new!
Learned so much from this thank you!!
Thank you for the content! There is so much more information about shoes than meets the eye
Dropping in a comment for the RW contest. And the algorithm. 😏 Big thanks to Doctors of Running for all of the helpful and thorough info!
I've worn Adidas Supernova stability shoes, but now that I've switch to Ecco Biom, there's just a huge difference. It's also guiding the foot, but guiding it to be more natural in its motion, and it's been very comfortable for my swollen and arthritic feet.
I appreciate the thorough and honest information. This episode is really important with all the max cushion and super-trainers. I haven't needed stability shoes but can really appreciate the different components that make stable neutral shoes. It makes me look at my pair of Rebel v2 in another light.
What a star. This information is super helpful.
Thank you for all the amazing valuable information in your podcasts!!!
So much awesome information. Thank you for explaining the support shoe!
Thank you for the in depth explanation!! I have always been one of the people who believed i supinate based on the wear on my shoes but have recently started to shift to neutral shoes and have had great luck!! Will give this one a second listen!
Love this. I have all the issues and appreciate this information!
Very informative as always…every video I learn something new.
thank you for the content, I listened to the podcast, but going to re-watch this as you have a lot of great info and good education here.
Thank you Matt! This is the most insightful information I have heard about running stability shoes.
Finally understand sidewalls and sole flare!!! Thank you!
Matt, thank you! For years running on neutral shoes and finding out that was the issue of my running knees. Learning new topics from you guys: Pronation, Stability, Side-Wall, Reels, Post, and my mechanics, I know now what type and kind of running shoes I need. From Saucony, Brooks, Puma and ASICS, all stability shoes that work for my running mechanics. All reviews I watch here. Next, please talk about any new carbon-plated shoes for stability-needed runners.
Noted!! -Matt
Excellent info… and I appreciate how you always talk about nuance and an individuals experience.
Thanks for another educational and informative episode. I know this is the kind of information I can't easily find anywhere else.
Thanks for the information! I was always confused about what to look for in a running shoe, and now i feel like i know!
so much good info
Great information about running and running shoes that I’ve never heard anywhere else!
Amazing content. This is really helpful. I always love the videos from doctors of running. It helps me learn more about my own biomechanics and guides me in the nuances of running and running shoes. Thank you guys so much for doing what you do!
Excellent episode, very clear concepts. As a "former overpronator" it has been difficult to pick shoes with stability elements. I begin in 2006 with motion control shoes and nowadays I can utilize neutral/mild stability shoes, this putting hard work on my feet to get them stronger year after year. (I've wear almost every type of shoe system you mentioned 😂)
My entry for the RW gift card. Your take on adding orthotics to stability shoes was spot on. Early on in my running journey, I was convinced by a Road Runner Sports employee that one of their custom insoles paired with the Mizuno Wave Inspire (version 9 I believe) would be the right fit for me. After using the combo for a week, I returned the insoles for a full refund. I also found that my running style did not like stability shoes. Neutral shoes work much better for me. Thanks for your content and the great advice on each video and podcast.
Great video podcast! Thank you for putting this together! I am an a heavy pronator and have for a long time been dependent on medial posting. Your video does a great job explaining how stability shoes are moving towards guidance and as an ATC I connected really well with your explanation of how the changes in shoe structure affect biomechanics and joint movement. I 100% agree with you in the importance of building dynamic strength and stability with the work that you put in outside of your runs. I’ve been incorporating a lot of eccentric strengthening, proprioception and plyometrics to my weekly training which has helped me tremendously in being able to tolerate neutral to neutral stable shoes. I’m excited to share this video podcast with so many PTs that I work with.
Awesome episode! As a stability runner I always appreciate and value the information you guys provide.
Great synopsis of the trajectory over time of how manufacturers attempt to control motion. I’ve always worn neutral shoes but been following the change from medial posts to guidance rails to now this phenomena of ‘Wear what feels comfortable.’ Super interesting podcast and synopsis!
Super helpful info! Thanks for putting out this video.
Thanks, Jessy! Also, congratulations! You are our giveaway winner for this week's video. Send us a message at doctorsofrunning@gmail.com (mention your username in the email) and we'll get you set up with your Running Warehouse $100 giftcard!
As always loving the in depth analysis of the human anatomy and movement and using that information to give people a better idea for what shoe works for them!
Great stuff! My personal favorite is the kayano 30
Another great podcast. I really appreciate the level you go to explain stability options. One area that wasn't particularly mentioned but has been very important to me in stability is the overall firmness of the shoe (not stiffness). I've found shoes that compress too much contribute to my previous achilles, plantar fasciitis, and calf problems. For me, if a shoe locks my foot in well and it has the right blend of cushion and firmness I'm in a good spot and all these stabiity devices like posts, guid rails etc. don't really matter. We are in a period of soft is the trend so factoring this into the discussion I think would be beneficial. Finding firmer options is actually hard these days.
Excellent information. Thought I knew quite a bit about stability but still learned a ton here!
Matt! Great podcast! Really enjoyed a well rounded intro to the multifaceted world of “stability “. It will benefit all levels of runners as the word “stability “ is so overused, no one knows what it is any more! My person take on “stability “ is how shoes increase or decrease my pronation. Shoes that I felt made me pronate more (Magnify 2, Triumph20, Topo Specter and Cyclone 2) will not work for me, and the ones that don’t ( Novablast 4, Supernova Rise, Revel V4) tend to be keepers.
Super informative. I don't think I need stability, but I still don't really know what works best for me having only tried a limited number of shoes.
Fantastic video! As someone with a more unusual form/ cause of pronation (stiff high arch but with ankle rolling inwards anyway due to hip/ femur rotation issues) I struggle with shoe selection a lot. Anything with a flexible heel counter leads to lateral compartment pain over time, and a very wide midfoot make sidewalls (lateral ones in particular) challenging 😢
This was spot on! Super helpful! I have post tib caused by crossing the mid line which causes me to land too far laterally and pronate too fast. Started wearing kayano 30 as the rocker helps and I need a higher drop, but the foam is a bit soft as it breaks in. I’m hoping to move to a stable neutral shoe.
Running the Reykjavik marathon this summer! So I’m looking for some new sneaks. Your videos are so insightful, thanks for all the helpful tips and info!
Try Ecco Biom. Definitely underrated.
I’ve never needed stability shoes (I don’t pronate or supinate), but have worn ones, especially trail shoes that have light stability.
Another great episode on one of my favorite topics as someone who overpronates quite a bit! Will you guys be covering the topic of Zone 2 running soon? I’d love to hear everyone’s opinions on how effective it is.
Thank you for this! Very informative. I have never heard such a thorough breakdown of stability needs etc. I have been wondering if I can try a neutral shoe based on some things that have been happening to me, and this helped lean me in that direction.
have the guide 16 and love them
Over did it in training, I'm 6 weeks out from my race, suffering from tib post, tried on the kayano 30, felt amazing. Tried on the guide 17 and felt horrible.
Found a deal on the kayano and will prob pull the trigger.
Your channel seems to one of the only ones talking bout sole flare. Forefoot lateral sole flare is my nemesis on many of the new shoes especially certain trail Altras, Hoka Mach 5 and Topos. The lateral flare up front is so wide on these models that it cants my foot inwards even when just standing there let along running. Other brands seems to have figured out to offset that with a medial forefoot flare. Lots of flare! and kind of maddening. In the meantime, I'll stick with narrow models like Altra Rivera
Excellent information even for those who do not need a stability shoe. I have enjoyed the Saucony Tempus over the Speed 3 and the Triumph. Just enough pop in the forefoot, not mushy, and I don’t feel like I’m falling off the front of the shoe.
Great explanation of all things stability! I have always been told I supinate, but apparently that is wrong (probably).
I have flat feet and used to think I need stability shoes. Then I went to a running store and they analyzed my feet motion, to my surprise I don't over pronate at all. By that I realized there are much more than just what (you think) you know pronation, and best to try out different shoes.
I broke my foot about 10 years ago. I spent like 6 years walking in stability shoes (gt 2000 and kayano). Never could really run. Then I decided to go to minimalist shoes (xero shoes) to try to strengthen my feet. Now I walk in minimalist shoes and run in neutral shoes with no pain.
Try Ecco Biom. Massively underrated. Literally made for triathletes, and have been worn by many to compete in triathlons. Switched from Adidas Supernova ST and Solar Glide ST to ECCO Biom, and it's just better for me at least. Immediate comfort.
Great episode. Its always fun to see the science placed above the feel and emotion. I wonder what products do you review that emotion or feeling plays a greater role than the science, and are you aware of that and occasionally call each other out on that? Either way keep it coming love the show.
I agree that orthotics used to be overprescribed. I still think that mine did more harm than good, and took me a while to run without them (it was almost like a vicious circle: trying to run without them would cause discomfort and aches of different intensity, which would lead me to go back to inserting the orthotics or even purchasing new ones, and back to square one) .
You're right we all got different movement patterns
My entry for the RW Gift Cars, for a stability shoe, I need it to be light to moderate because I have ankle instability. I still need to do strength training for my ankle but overall, I feel like you should need pronation.
Interesting! I think I have been over-prescribed (or even mis-prescribed) stability shoes in the past. Slowly increased volume and have been able to say goodbye to my Asics GT2000s. Now can run in neutral and even less stable shoes (e.g. speed work in Endorphin Speed 2, Takumi Sen).
What strength work helped you adapt to use other shoes? Thanks
Great episode! Animations or even a model of a foot would have made it even better. ❤
Listened to this podcast at my running store I work in. And MY GOD was there a lot of stuff I follow really well. Having the shoes also to look at while working in a dead store only made this podcast even more fun!
Is there any way I can get in direct contact with you, Matt, in a real time conversation type communication?
I would love to just have an elaborate conversation about anything running related, especially stability running shoes!
Tough time right now, but feel free to email us at doctorsofrunning@gmail.com
Hey Matt , great video! I suffer the exact issues you do with years of post tib pain where I can’t run for more than 5kms at a time without severe pain for days after, have had orthotics made each year and the exact same pain exists - I’m now going to get rid of orthotics and run with a stability shoe to try and see if this works better with less solid pressure.
Would love to know what you currently run in, I am torn between possibly Kayano 30 and Brooks Glycerin GTS?? Also heard Tempus but I need a wide shoe and they don’t seem to come in D width?
I’ve been diagnosed with supination, and this episode is soo helpful to know what to look for in shoes. Is it possible to minimize the impact from supination by strength training?
Yes! Supination describes a motion not a pathology. It is only a problem if you don’t have control over it or the strength to do so. Strength training, especially single leg activities, should help! -Matt
Learned lots! My favorite, sadly discontinued, shoe was a stability racing shoe (NB 1500 😢)
Nice one. Informative as always. The issue that is irritating us as retailers here at The Complete Runner (Ilkley UK) is that , as you have pointed out inthe video, brands are addressing support/stability differently to previous BUT retaining the name of the model. I can understand why they do this.They want to retain customers who have been loyal users of that model. Only then to find the new version with different support methodology does not suit them. One clear example is Asics Kayano. But 361 Kairos has changed similarly taking away the medial support and reaplacing it wth a wider platform and different "geometry". Guide similarly. Why don't the brands just admit the franchise model is NOT the same and give it a fresh name altogether!? Terry Lonergan
Very informative 👍🏻 maybe a separate video on gaviota 5 H frame or shoes for rigid, high arch feet?
Great video!!!
I have hypermoblity and use custome inner soles
I have tried a couple of shoes-Asics gel cumulus 26-saucony ride 17, new balance v13 etc
Shoes with a higher stack hight seems to not work for me
I use the asics gel pursue 9 as a daily trainer which really works for me..have done a couple of half marathons and basically do all my runs in them
Have you tried this shoe?
I am looking for a shoe with lower stack height with neutral stability capabilities for tempo runs and races (carbon plated shoes dont work me iether)
Dont think the brooks hyperion is available in my country
Thank you for the great videos!
However looking
Didn’t care much about what shoes to wear until today 😅 Learned a lot and should care about our feet 🦶 with this kind of informative and educational free videos 🏃🏻♀️🏃🏻♂️❤️🙏🏼 Thanks for a giveaway as well and hope I win 👟🎁
love these podcasts! curious- i'm very overweight and i have flat/wide feet. super poor ankle mobility but also bad knees and hips. i just have the perfect body :). what shoe would you recommend for a daily walking shoe? i'm thinking of glycerin, as i've also enjoyed the adrenalyns. but also thinking of the kayano? kind of overwhelmed
Would inserts also give added stability?
How does a stability show compared with a cushion shoe with stability insole?
I tend to over pronate a lot, I’m 5’8” 160 lbs with a short arch, is that why I do better with my rebel V3 vs Hoka cielo X1
at 6:15 min/km pace?
The flexibility with a lot of over pronation and light weight of the shoe is what makes it work for me?
That’s what I assessed from this video lol.
Thanks for the info and opportunity to win shoes! Your content is very appreciated
Hey Matt, I have a hypothesis that 'stability' shoes (esp ones which have medial post or firmer medial midsole) are pushing my feet to supinate / go laterally, thereby leading to more lateral sprains. I've had a lot of ankle sprains and mostly while using 'stability' shoes. I couldn't find any research on this, have you seen anything or have any perspectives?
Yes! There is no research but clinical experience and basic biomechanics suggests that too much medial support will push you laterally
It is why I prefer stable neutral shoes as those usually have guidance on both sides, rather than just one.
Thank you! I had this feeling but couldn't verify. Agree, neutral stable is the way to go (generally).
Love the podcast.. hoping for the GIVEAWAY!
Stability shoes ftw! Asics Kayano 💯
so fire
I had a misconception about stability shoes before. I thought that my foot would be "weaker" since the stability shoe provides a lot of artificial support thus preventing my foot's natural movement.
A little unrelated, but I see you have Explosive Running on your bookshelf - would you recommend this as an intro for running form?
offset midsoles would seem the logical method, lets foot move as intended while that slight deeper medial side works as a passive post.
nothing will ever beat the Saucony Tempus
Never needed stability shoes. I don't mind the stable neutral category (have enjoyed the Endorphin Shift), but I wish companies would stop trying to make every race shoe more stable. Alphafly 2 and Prime X 2 are examples where they took great, fun shoes and made them wider and heavier in pursuit of stability.
Hey Matt-it’s Ka-YA-no. Not KeyAno. Now enter me in the Giveaway 😂!!!!
Peter, I can’t do it! -Matt