I watched that Turkey impression a dozen times and it just got better and better. Gobble Gobble Gobble!!!! 1:06 52:15 Hahahahha.... im in tears. Its will never get old!
Really love the idea of putting the game titles, publishers etc during the vid. Nice move, also, keep adding visuals, nice one. I think the Lego intro should be built by Tom, Zee and Sam lookalikes
I really like the surprising angles you've taken on some of your top 10 list topics -- if you guys made lists for the rest of your lives, I'd probably watch them. For me it's not so much about the strength of the topic, it's about sharing in the thought process that goes into making your lists. You've struck gold with this format, and though changes are likely as time moves forward, I've been enjoying them for quite a long time with no sign of my interest waning. Top 10's with Tom, Sam, and Zee -- not a turkey.
I also think the editing was really cool on this top ten. I never had any issue with the length of top ten, but I can see how making the rank transitions faster, listing the games during the discussion instead of between ranks makes the whole thing more streamlined. Adding images of the games and all, really good job :)
Nice list. I always look forward to seeing these top ten with the three of you and they never fail to inform and amuse. Thank you for taking the time to make these videos.
im new to the Dice Tower but man... 1. I love these top 10, love sam, tom and zee, such a good trio. 2. why is Sumerrer thanking us for watching boardgame breakfast at the end there xD !! such improvement on editing then they had the wrong soundbyte at the end :o!!
I'd love it if when you guys are being critical of a game, and you mention "other games do X better" that you would try and remember to mention specifically what those other, better games are. Some of us watch these to help us buy and we are always interested better alternatives. I know you guys mention it sometimes, but not always. For example with Settlers, which all three of you are often critical of (with good reason), I think only Sam has mentioned an actual alternative (Stone Age, in his "Games that killed other games" list.) During the "Overrated games" list, Zee called out Catan but didn't share his better choices. And when Tom has agreed with both of you, he doesn't always mention what he likes better either. I really like the advice that helps guide me toward better selections. That's what keeps me coming back to these videos - and your bantering. :)
Couldn't agree more with Sam about Settlers. I played that game exclusively when I first got into the hobby and couldn't have imagined anything better. Now I only play it if it's the only thing a group will play.
I still enjoy Settlers. It's comfortable. It barely requires any mental effort. My casual gaming acquaintances still enjoy it. I sit back, crack a cold beer, collect wool, and disregard haters.
I agree with Sam also, so burnt out from Settlers and there's been too many games where the dice aren't going your way at all. You sit there turn after turn with the same two resources in your hand, everyone else is trading, building and getting ahead in the game. While you sit there with your two resources and surfing your smartphone because you're bored to death.
Nice show again, we all have our own games that we liked at one time, then for various reasons, tire of. I probably saw this idea on one of your top 10 episodes, but somewhere I saw the concept brought up, that depending on the number of good game plays you get out of a game vs the money spent, a person could very well base a games overall net worth on that; even if they no longer play the game. That's something I like to keep in mind when I think of my own games, that just as you point out, are not bad games, just ones I have grown out of. Unfortunately my work schedule this year is going to be such that I'm more than likely not going to make it down to Origins, even though I'm right here in good old Columbus. Hopefully I'll get to catch some coverage from The Dicetower though!
King of Tokyo has become a "turkey" for me and my group. We used to play this game all the time and loved its push-your-luck simplicity and chaos. However, after learning more complex games, we just haven't felt the urge to bring this one out anymore.
I agree with Sam that I no longer enjoy Catan as much as I once did. Still it will always hold a special spot in my heart since it was my gateway into the wonderful word of modern games. I got the six player expansion and hope it will spice it up (I'd love to try the other variants as well!).
Sam. I totally agree about Heroscape, BUT there are two solutions: a) leave the game set up on your favourite map. b) buy a gaming mat, and you can set up Heroscape in less than 10 minutes.
Settlers of Catan, get's fixed when you play it with the 5-6 player expansion. Finally you play the whole game, and not just a third. Also, Love these lists. You three are funny together, and it does feel real, and as if you are having fun with these yourselves.
i had to weigh in! XD love it that tom wont play tigris and euphrates because "too often you lose without ever playing poorly" and yet he is a major magic fan! i love magic but seriously if i get no land for the first 10 turns one more time!!!....... love your vids guys
+Adam Buss That would apply to _all_ card games, basically. ;) The difference between MtG and T&E is the length. MtG takes around 10-20mins, so it's not a huge deal if you get land flooded/screwed, you just play it again. But yeah, that's one of the biggest problems with the game (and all LCG/CCG games also), that's true.
At first I thought this episode would be about turkeys in board games. This list was awesome, but I would also love a top ten list of Turkeys. (You may even include Turkey the country as an option in a game instead of just the animal)
Tom nailed the biggest problem with the Star Wars CCG. I played it like crazy when I was young, then my friend and I picked up a bunch of booster boxes for really cheap about six or eight years ago to throw together some decks... but the problem is that you can make two decks that have no interaction. If I make a Jabba's palace scum and villainy deck, and he makes a Rebel space deck, we will pretty much never battle eachother. It only really works if you both agree to make space decks or ground decks... otherwise it's a really boring single-player type experience where you see whose force draining and gimmicks can run out a deck faster. There's some fun mechanics, but generally, they'll only be in one of the two decks.
The titles are a great addition. I know it's a lot of work, but it's greatly appreciated. One suggestion: less shadow on the bottom half of the game title. After doing all the work to add them, it's a pity they're a little difficult to read.
Fun fact: In Poland 'turkey' is translated to 'indyk' - and that's how we call.. indie games. So I was a bit surprised until you explained what 'turkey' games are. ;D
With every expansion i'm starting to lean towards Sam's opinion of Mage Wars. With new cards you not only have to put more consideration into your book, but you also have to familiarize yourself with the new mechanics to properly defend from your opponent. On one hand I love all of the new mages, on the other hand the new mechanics added each time make the already long and very heavy game that much more heavy. This was already a bear to get out to the table, now it's almost impossible unless you are playing with die hards.
I'm with you Sam, you had more restraint than I did when Tom and Zee put BSG on their list. I've been playing it for years and would still play it every week if I could. Other than that, great lists guys, keep up the good work!
I'm in the same boat. A good deal of it might be that I hate hate HATE Shadows Over Camelot due to the ridiculous level of abstraction and paste-on aspect of its theme and the traitor mechanic being so . . . meh. As in, the game thought of a great mechanic, then sought to undermine it at every turn. Yeah, can't agree with them on Battlestar.
Hey Sam: HANSA is not a "mediterranean trading game". It is based on the Hanseatic Trading League along the North Sea and the Baltics. Just saying. ;) And while I am at it: I like you guys. And Sam, I don't think that you're a negative person. I like the way you voice your opinions and more often than not I agree with you. And besides, what would DICE TOWER be without that little bickering and banter between the three of you? Keep it up! :)
Dune never gets old for me. Not a game for everyone, though. It really is a game to play with 5 other players that are into it... and hopefully enjoy/know the theme. With the right group, I can't think of a better 6 player game.
@@danielgoicoechea3440 It's a REALLY hard to get to the table... and honestly, I haven't played it in about 15 years or so. lol I still have those feelings, though. :-) Great gaming memories. It would be nice to get a new game going and see how it goes still. I did almost get one going within the past year (it even got a proper reprint not long ago)... I should press some friends harder. ;-)
You 3 were in top form today. Thanks You all made my lousy day at work 200% better. I always look froward to you 3 doing the top 10. Sam had me laughing hard. Zee is always fast on the draw with sayings. Oh yeah then Tom............... well you were good too. Just kidding Tom, you are the glue that holds the show together. Thanks again guys I need the laughs.
Good show guys, just wish you'd give a few more examples for alternatives. Like Zee mentions short games that match the intrigue of BSG, I'd love to know what they are...
I've played Catan at least 100 times including the variants (fish, cities and knights). I really enjoy these types of games, so can you recommend something similar? I've also played Powergrid at least 50 times and I haven't seen a video where you guys have talked about that one. I am interested in getting Quadropolis and Alhambra due to your previous video mentions. I must say I side with Sam's hate on Dominion. It's broken with the obvious deck milling strategies, but I continue to play it because we have it.
I'LL PLAY LIBERTE WITH YOU TOM!!! But really, I played it with some people not too long ago and it went over surprisingly well. I do think the game is so unique as to be difficult for most people to wrap their minds around, which is unfortunate. The game really works so well once everyone is on board. Getting people on board however... I like Evo a lot, but I can see how it could lose some luster after a lot of plays. There just aren't many good dinosaur games though, and the bidding is done really well, which keeps me interested in coming back to it. Bang! I can totally get behind. That was fun for maybe 5ish plays for me, then it took a nose dive.
ABSOLUTELY agree with Wits & Wagers. I bought it because of Tom. Had about ONE fun game, and every other time, that game fell flat...It's great for a classroom setting, but as a party game, it's just dull.
When it comes to BSG I'm kinda there. It was my intro to hobby board games... yeah I jumped over the typical intro games lol. The one thing that kept me coming back was I never played as a Cylon, until last weekend. Now that I've done that I think I'm more interested in playing with new people and maybe once a year with the group who introduced me to it. My regular group play way too slow (it takes a whole day's time basically) and people are not exactly enthused. The time is a big factor for me and a lot of the the core of what I am looking for there is covered in Resistance: Avalon which I own (and normal Resistance too I'm sure).
I hate to say it, but I'm with Tom in regards to Axis and Allies. I got together with a friend from out of town, and we got about 3 turns in, and said "why are we playing this?" Sad, but true.
I actually still dig A&A. I love the Anniversary version. I can see how it isn't a game for everyone, but something about it just hits all of the marks for me. I will play it at any opportunity.
Don't get me wrong--it is one of my favorite games of all time, and I still think it is a good game. It just won't make it to the table much anymore. Anniversary edition is my favorite BTW.
KAM1138a Yeah... this is true. You have to have the right gang for it. I said the same about Dune in another post. With the right group who are into it, A&A is a blast. And it's a sin that the Anniversary Edition had such a small print run. Editions since haven't been as good! Grrrr.
Well, this friend of mine came to town specifically for us to play A&A--which we had done in our past(s). For whatever reason it just didn't click with us this time. Anniversary edition should have become the default edition in my opinion.
Interesting idea for a list. Certainly, our enjoyment of specific games changes over time. Cleverly done, guys. On a trivial side-note, I've never come across that particular usage of the word 'turkey' before. I've only heard it used in the sense of a complete failure - e.g. Battlefield: Earth was a turkey.
I wouldn't mind an update to this list in the future. If I had to make a top list I'd be: King of Tokyo/ New York Incan Gold Ca$h N Gun$ 2nd edition The Resistance Zombicide Black Plague Last Night on Earth Dead Men Tell No Tales Munchkin Cards Against Humanity Shadowrun Crossfire Five Tribes Celestia Still like many of these, and many of them just need an expansion or just the right play group (especially with Five Tribes and Shadowrun)
I would love a revisit to this list in the future. I'm sure there are a ton of turkeys that have come up since this list was made. If I were to put a top 10 I'd pick DC Deck Builder(any set) Incan Gold Munchkin Cards Against Humanity The Resistance King of Tokyo Jamaica Boss Monster Betrayal at House on the Hill Celestia
Due to some of the choices in this video.......how about an updated top ten cooperative games!!! Would love to see all off your guys picks since the first was a condensed list. You know you want too :)
I think that "Top Ten Games that Have Lost Their Luster" would've been more descriptive than "Top Ten Turkeys." When you call something a "turkey," you're pretty much saying you hate it.
Totally. Turkey to me means a game you thought would be cool, maybe enjoyed it once, but then you realized you didn't like it. Any came where you can say "I played it too much" means it's good
Great idea having the title/publisher/date banner at the bottom! However, the composition seems a little odd - it's like you guys are sitting too far up the picture. Perhaps if the camera focused a little higher up, and the gap beneath the info banners was reduced?
Mine is King of Tokyo. Great game when I first got it, loved the huge custom dice. Still a great gateway game to introduce people to but not as fun for me as it used to be.
on point #3 Tom says "Samurai Swords" as a replacement for "Bang!", when he meant "Samurai Sword". (Not to be confused with the other Samurai Swords game on this list)
I'm going to try something: my top ten with out listening to the podcast yet: 1) Puerto Rico 2)Blue Moon City 3) Fairy Tale (liked it at first, hate that pass the card to the left thing) 4) Bohnanza 5) Blue Moon City 6) Power Grid 7) Goa 8) Pandemic 9)Last Night on Earth 10 Battlestar Galactica
My #1: Twilight Struggle It's a game that on the surface seems like this great strategic struggle between 2 players. Now that I've spent close to 100 hours playing it, I think I'm done. More and more I realize that the few times luck comes up in the game is way too swingy. Getting a bad first turn hand is huge and can potentially end the game for you right away. The die roll for the first coup (usually Iran), the difference between rolling a 1 and rolling a 6 is a huge difference, and can make or break the entire rest of the game right from the first move. Rolling for wars is a huge swing. Missing rolls for Quagmire/Bear Trap several times in a row can take someone who's played a great game up until that point and lose the whole thing for them. For a 2-3 hour game, you come to realize that too much luck rides on just a couple of die rolls and the first turn draw. I find myself less and less wanting to play this because of it.
+Cameron Faulkenburg My top would be World of Warcraft. I remember we played it even over the course of few days. Now I wouldn't even consider playing it. Too long, too samey. But we really really enjoyed it for like a year.
My "Turkeys" are old games that have been left behind or newer games that didn't stay as favourites. 10. Alien Frontiers - started off seeming awesome but played out very samey. 9. Puerto Rico - still good, just not as awesome as other games I have played more recently. kind of dry. 8. Hanabi - (deluxe tile version) an innovative game that I played too much at first and don't really find exciting any more. It is more of a puzzle than a game once the group has a predetermined system. 7. Nuclear War - a decent silly game that doesn't measure up to most modern games. 6. Canasta - I loved playing this with my grandmother. It just wouldn't interest me much these days. (see also cribbage) 5. Settlers of Catan - I thought it was great til I tried many other games. It has lost its allure. (see also Carcassonne and Bohnanza) 4. Ubiquity - a roll and move game with much more strategy than most but still an outdated game from long before I knew eurogames 3. Dungeons and Dragons - who has time to play this any more? Who has a group of friends who have time to play it? Not me. It rather play thousands of shorter games. 2. Talisman - loved 1st ed plus most 2nd ed expansions as a kid. I tried to play it one last time for nostalgia and we quit hours later bored and unfulfilled. Sold the expansions to Aldie from BGG. 1. Magic the Gathering - loved it during 3rd ed but lost all interest when it seemed to go through new card sets every year.
Great list guys. Some of these really rang true for me. I haven't played Heroscape in 4 years because last time I spent nearly three hours taking it down and storing it. I haven't played Axis and Allies in 7 but I played it all through my life and I regret none of that. You guys could do a list of games you initially hated but now love. Might be harder to do. Also, if I had been introduced to gaming with Settlers of Catan, I never would have become a gamer. Booya!!
I wrote a longer comment, but thought it "wouldn't do." Tom's reasoning makes sense to me, however much I might loathe SoC. Zee's, on the other hand, does not. BSG isn't very reproducible beyond SoC. Hidden roles and traitor mechanics depend on the game around them, and while I suppose you could play Resistance, in which the hidden role mechanic has been carved out of the game, it tends to greatly reduce the weight and tension behind it. If you want something with which the traitor mechanic can interact, Resistance, Shadowrift, or Saboteur won't do. BSG isn't easily reproducible in another game without losing a lot. That's my major bone of contention with Zee, who is otherwise my favorite personality on the show.
Fury of Dracula needs some house rules to be playable. The whole way Drac moves over water needs a total overhaul. At the very least, he needs to not be able to use wolf form immediately on landing. "Everything that's in Dune/Rex is in Cosmic Encounter".....wuh??! That's like saying everything that's in Battlestar Galactica is in One Night Werewolf. Tide of Iron base game scenarios ridiculously favor the Americans (except Battle of the Bulge, which is impossible to win as Americans). Samurai Swords- I totally had a blast playing it in college too! I think what cooled me on it though is that the winner was always one of the players who started on the West or East end. The players in the middle were always doomed and it wasn't much fun for them. Race for the Galaxy- It wasn't the iconography that killed it for me, it was that the winner just seemed random. You can improve your game with skill (learning to piggy back actions), but there is a very low ceiling to it and once you reach that moderate level, there's no difference in player performance. I had a hardcore group playing it and they still couldn't differentiate their strategy between good games and bad. You either get lucky with drawing cards or you don't.
Anyone -- please answer -- WHAT exactly has replaced Tigris and Euphrates? Is there really a better tile laying type abstract game? If so, please please tell me.... I love Tigris and would obviously like a copy but it's pricey online ($90 on amazon)
+TheOmninovoi Amazon now has the FFG reprint for sale www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_0_15?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=tigris+and+euphrates+board+game&sprefix=tigris+and+euphrates+board+game%2Caps%2C307
BSG: I actually love playing BSG Express, which is a print-n-play dice version that takes under 90 minutes to play. It picked up a publisher and will be released under the title Dark Moon - keep an eye out for it.
Tigris & Euphrates - "there were too many times I lost and it wasn't because I played poorly." Tom, how do you know? How can you be sure it was just luck or chaos? How can you be sure you didn't play with players who played even better? I would not ask this for any game, but for T&E, yes I do.
The extra frame space is so the graphics can be inserted in there. I thought the same thing until they started the actual lists and then it made sense. On a side note...I giggled around the 38 minute mark art the breaking wind sound...yes im twelve :p
I watched that Turkey impression a dozen times and it just got better and better. Gobble Gobble Gobble!!!!
1:06
52:15
Hahahahha.... im in tears. Its will never get old!
The annotations and information at the bottom of each pick is good! Keep it up!
Loved the intro with Sam making the turkey sound!
Really love the idea of putting the game titles, publishers etc during the vid. Nice move, also, keep adding visuals, nice one. I think the Lego intro should be built by Tom, Zee and Sam lookalikes
I like the new format Tom, I know it takes longer, but it definitely adds to the quality.
The editing in this was PHENOMENAL! Keep up the info and pictures, Tom!
It is a welcome improvement. Phenomenal is a bit strong but love to see Tom working on a bit of production value.
I really like the surprising angles you've taken on some of your top 10 list topics -- if you guys made lists for the rest of your lives, I'd probably watch them. For me it's not so much about the strength of the topic, it's about sharing in the thought process that goes into making your lists. You've struck gold with this format, and though changes are likely as time moves forward, I've been enjoying them for quite a long time with no sign of my interest waning. Top 10's with Tom, Sam, and Zee -- not a turkey.
I also think the editing was really cool on this top ten. I never had any issue with the length of top ten, but I can see how making the rank transitions faster, listing the games during the discussion instead of between ranks makes the whole thing more streamlined. Adding images of the games and all, really good job :)
Nice list. I always look forward to seeing these top ten with the three of you and they never fail to inform and amuse. Thank you for taking the time to make these videos.
OMG that turkey impression kills me!
Like the new info displays, with publisher, designer, and date. Great addition
Actually to have the info about what game and so on written on screen was a great improvement. Keep that.
New ticker! Good job, WTG! I like that it remains while talking about the game the entire time.
im new to the Dice Tower but man...
1. I love these top 10, love sam, tom and zee, such a good trio.
2. why is Sumerrer thanking us for watching boardgame breakfast at the end there xD !! such improvement on editing then they had the wrong soundbyte at the end :o!!
Ha! I noticed the Boardgame Breakfast goof too.
Quasi-subliminal messaging. Go watch boardgame breakfast... the power of Tom compels you... you cannot live without boardgame breakfast...
I'd love it if when you guys are being critical of a game, and you mention "other games do X better" that you would try and remember to mention specifically what those other, better games are. Some of us watch these to help us buy and we are always interested better alternatives. I know you guys mention it sometimes, but not always. For example with Settlers, which all three of you are often critical of (with good reason), I think only Sam has mentioned an actual alternative (Stone Age, in his "Games that killed other games" list.) During the "Overrated games" list, Zee called out Catan but didn't share his better choices. And when Tom has agreed with both of you, he doesn't always mention what he likes better either. I really like the advice that helps guide me toward better selections. That's what keeps me coming back to these videos - and your bantering. :)
Ya'll are absolute mad lads. much respect
Couldn't agree more with Sam about Settlers. I played that game exclusively when I first got into the hobby and couldn't have imagined anything better. Now I only play it if it's the only thing a group will play.
I will not play it at all
What is the emotion that you feel when you play Settlers now? Boredom, annoyance?
Haha a steady stream of both. Constant longing as I look at my shelf of vastly superior games.
I still enjoy Settlers. It's comfortable. It barely requires any mental effort. My casual gaming acquaintances still enjoy it. I sit back, crack a cold beer, collect wool, and disregard haters.
I agree with Sam also, so burnt out from Settlers and there's been too many games where the dice aren't going your way at all. You sit there turn after turn with the same two resources in your hand, everyone else is trading, building and getting ahead in the game. While you sit there with your two resources and surfing your smartphone because you're bored to death.
Nice show again, we all have our own games that we liked at one time, then for various reasons, tire of. I probably saw this idea on one of your top 10 episodes, but somewhere I saw the concept brought up, that depending on the number of good game plays you get out of a game vs the money spent, a person could very well base a games overall net worth on that; even if they no longer play the game. That's something I like to keep in mind when I think of my own games, that just as you point out, are not bad games, just ones I have grown out of.
Unfortunately my work schedule this year is going to be such that I'm more than likely not going to make it down to Origins, even though I'm right here in good old Columbus. Hopefully I'll get to catch some coverage from The Dicetower though!
I really loved the changes to the editing. I can take or leave the promotional things in the background, though. Keep up the good work.
Really enjoyed this one! Thanks!
Haha. The ending said thanks for watching Boardgame Breakfast.
King of Tokyo has become a "turkey" for me and my group. We used to play this game all the time and loved its push-your-luck simplicity and chaos. However, after learning more complex games, we just haven't felt the urge to bring this one out anymore.
I am still watching #10, but I LOVE the ticker. Please keep it up!
I agree with Sam that I no longer enjoy Catan as much as I once did. Still it will always hold a special spot in my heart since it was my gateway into the wonderful word of modern games.
I got the six player expansion and hope it will spice it up (I'd love to try the other variants as well!).
Heh... the outro says, "Thank you for watching Board Game Breakfast." Oops!
Sam. I totally agree about Heroscape, BUT there are two solutions: a) leave the game set up on your favourite map. b) buy a gaming mat, and you can set up Heroscape in less than 10 minutes.
1:05 This will go down in history.
I love the upgraded video!
Agreed with the other poster than the audio quality improved SIGNIFICANTLY at the 36min mark. Whatever you guys did with the mics worked great!
Settlers of Catan, get's fixed when you play it with the 5-6 player expansion.
Finally you play the whole game, and not just a third.
Also, Love these lists. You three are funny together, and it does feel real, and as if you are having fun with these yourselves.
i had to weigh in! XD love it that tom wont play tigris and euphrates because "too often you lose without ever playing poorly" and yet he is a major magic fan! i love magic but seriously if i get no land for the first 10 turns one more time!!!....... love your vids guys
+Adam Buss That would apply to _all_ card games, basically. ;) The difference between MtG and T&E is the length. MtG takes around 10-20mins, so it's not a huge deal if you get land flooded/screwed, you just play it again. But yeah, that's one of the biggest problems with the game (and all LCG/CCG games also), that's true.
At first I thought this episode would be about turkeys in board games. This list was awesome, but I would also love a top ten list of Turkeys. (You may even include Turkey the country as an option in a game instead of just the animal)
What about an opposite list? ... like games that got better and better with more plays. That be very interesting. Keep it up!!!
Agreed!
Great idea
Tom nailed the biggest problem with the Star Wars CCG. I played it like crazy when I was young, then my friend and I picked up a bunch of booster boxes for really cheap about six or eight years ago to throw together some decks... but the problem is that you can make two decks that have no interaction. If I make a Jabba's palace scum and villainy deck, and he makes a Rebel space deck, we will pretty much never battle eachother. It only really works if you both agree to make space decks or ground decks... otherwise it's a really boring single-player type experience where you see whose force draining and gimmicks can run out a deck faster. There's some fun mechanics, but generally, they'll only be in one of the two decks.
The titles are a great addition. I know it's a lot of work, but it's greatly appreciated.
One suggestion: less shadow on the bottom half of the game title. After doing all the work to add them, it's a pity they're a little difficult to read.
Fun fact: In Poland 'turkey' is translated to 'indyk' - and that's how we call.. indie games. So I was a bit surprised until you explained what 'turkey' games are. ;D
With every expansion i'm starting to lean towards Sam's opinion of Mage Wars. With new cards you not only have to put more consideration into your book, but you also have to familiarize yourself with the new mechanics to properly defend from your opponent. On one hand I love all of the new mages, on the other hand the new mechanics added each time make the already long and very heavy game that much more heavy. This was already a bear to get out to the table, now it's almost impossible unless you are playing with die hards.
Very fun to watch it after a new one.
This is why we subbed to TDT
Whoa! Nice new graphics during the list!
I find it surprising that Yggdrasil is Zee's turkey. He still loves Ghost Stories and it's basically the same game. I love them both, amazing games.
I'm with you Sam, you had more restraint than I did when Tom and Zee put BSG on their list. I've been playing it for years and would still play it every week if I could.
Other than that, great lists guys, keep up the good work!
I'm in the same boat. A good deal of it might be that I hate hate HATE Shadows Over Camelot due to the ridiculous level of abstraction and paste-on aspect of its theme and the traitor mechanic being so . . . meh. As in, the game thought of a great mechanic, then sought to undermine it at every turn.
Yeah, can't agree with them on Battlestar.
Oh, and really like the addition of the game name and info at the bottom.
can't wait for zee's top 100!! Show me those games I never heard about
Tom: I like the infobars you added. I always look forward to these lists.
Woah! The subtitles are awesome!
Hey Sam: HANSA is not a "mediterranean trading game". It is based on the Hanseatic Trading League along the North Sea and the Baltics. Just saying. ;)
And while I am at it: I like you guys. And Sam, I don't think that you're a negative person. I like the way you voice your opinions and more often than not I agree with you. And besides, what would DICE TOWER be without that little bickering and banter between the three of you? Keep it up! :)
Really like the new line with info of the game (etc). Was a bit strange with all the table at first but I think I'll get used to it:)
Dune never gets old for me. Not a game for everyone, though. It really is a game to play with 5 other players that are into it... and hopefully enjoy/know the theme. With the right group, I can't think of a better 6 player game.
Do you still think that today?😂
@@danielgoicoechea3440 It's a REALLY hard to get to the table... and honestly, I haven't played it in about 15 years or so. lol I still have those feelings, though. :-) Great gaming memories. It would be nice to get a new game going and see how it goes still. I did almost get one going within the past year (it even got a proper reprint not long ago)... I should press some friends harder. ;-)
Good job guys! I love the top 10s. How about a Top10 filler games?
You 3 were in top form today. Thanks You all made my lousy day at work 200% better. I always look froward to you 3 doing the top 10. Sam had me laughing hard. Zee is always fast on the draw with sayings. Oh yeah then Tom............... well you were good too.
Just kidding Tom, you are the glue that holds the show together. Thanks again guys I need the laughs.
Good show guys, just wish you'd give a few more examples for alternatives. Like Zee mentions short games that match the intrigue of BSG, I'd love to know what they are...
I've played Catan at least 100 times including the variants (fish, cities and knights). I really enjoy these types of games, so can you recommend something similar? I've also played Powergrid at least 50 times and I haven't seen a video where you guys have talked about that one. I am interested in getting Quadropolis and Alhambra due to your previous video mentions. I must say I side with Sam's hate on Dominion. It's broken with the obvious deck milling strategies, but I continue to play it because we have it.
+Her Beauty Obsession Concordia has become my Catan replacement.
How about top ten games your girlfriend / wife loves playing? or top ten games that you would suggest to your girlfriend / wife to play?
I'LL PLAY LIBERTE WITH YOU TOM!!!
But really, I played it with some people not too long ago and it went over surprisingly well. I do think the game is so unique as to be difficult for most people to wrap their minds around, which is unfortunate. The game really works so well once everyone is on board. Getting people on board however...
I like Evo a lot, but I can see how it could lose some luster after a lot of plays. There just aren't many good dinosaur games though, and the bidding is done really well, which keeps me interested in coming back to it.
Bang! I can totally get behind. That was fun for maybe 5ish plays for me, then it took a nose dive.
ABSOLUTELY agree with Wits & Wagers. I bought it because of Tom. Had about ONE fun game, and every other time, that game fell flat...It's great for a classroom setting, but as a party game, it's just dull.
When it comes to BSG I'm kinda there. It was my intro to hobby board games... yeah I jumped over the typical intro games lol.
The one thing that kept me coming back was I never played as a Cylon, until last weekend. Now that I've done that I think I'm more interested in playing with new people and maybe once a year with the group who introduced me to it. My regular group play way too slow (it takes a whole day's time basically) and people are not exactly enthused.
The time is a big factor for me and a lot of the the core of what I am looking for there is covered in Resistance: Avalon which I own (and normal Resistance too I'm sure).
I hate to say it, but I'm with Tom in regards to Axis and Allies. I got together with a friend from out of town, and we got about 3 turns in, and said "why are we playing this?"
Sad, but true.
I actually still dig A&A. I love the Anniversary version. I can see how it isn't a game for everyone, but something about it just hits all of the marks for me. I will play it at any opportunity.
Don't get me wrong--it is one of my favorite games of all time, and I still think it is a good game. It just won't make it to the table much anymore.
Anniversary edition is my favorite BTW.
KAM1138a Yeah... this is true. You have to have the right gang for it. I said the same about Dune in another post. With the right group who are into it, A&A is a blast. And it's a sin that the Anniversary Edition had such a small print run. Editions since haven't been as good! Grrrr.
Well, this friend of mine came to town specifically for us to play A&A--which we had done in our past(s). For whatever reason it just didn't click with us this time.
Anniversary edition should have become the default edition in my opinion.
Fascinating list
I really like the banners in the background.
My turkeys are Small World and most certainly Catan. But like Sam said about his lower 5, I would still play them.
Interesting idea for a list. Certainly, our enjoyment of specific games changes over time. Cleverly done, guys.
On a trivial side-note, I've never come across that particular usage of the word 'turkey' before. I've only heard it used in the sense of a complete failure - e.g. Battlefield: Earth was a turkey.
I wouldn't mind an update to this list in the future. If I had to make a top list I'd be:
King of Tokyo/ New York
Incan Gold
Ca$h N Gun$ 2nd edition
The Resistance
Zombicide Black Plague
Last Night on Earth
Dead Men Tell No Tales
Munchkin
Cards Against Humanity
Shadowrun Crossfire
Five Tribes
Celestia
Still like many of these, and many of them just need an expansion or just the right play group (especially with Five Tribes and Shadowrun)
Good job on production improvement!
Love you guys! :)
I would love a revisit to this list in the future. I'm sure there are a ton of turkeys that have come up since this list was made.
If I were to put a top 10 I'd pick
DC Deck Builder(any set)
Incan Gold
Munchkin
Cards Against Humanity
The Resistance
King of Tokyo
Jamaica
Boss Monster
Betrayal at House on the Hill
Celestia
Due to some of the choices in this video.......how about an updated top ten cooperative games!!! Would love to see all off your guys picks since the first was a condensed list. You know you want too :)
great list
Nice editing. Noticed a lot of little improvements.
I think that "Top Ten Games that Have Lost Their Luster" would've been more descriptive than "Top Ten Turkeys." When you call something a "turkey," you're pretty much saying you hate it.
Totally. Turkey to me means a game you thought would be cool, maybe enjoyed it once, but then you realized you didn't like it. Any came where you can say "I played it too much" means it's good
Great idea having the title/publisher/date banner at the bottom! However, the composition seems a little odd - it's like you guys are sitting too far up the picture. Perhaps if the camera focused a little higher up, and the gap beneath the info banners was reduced?
Mine is King of Tokyo. Great game when I first got it, loved the huge custom dice. Still a great gateway game to introduce people to but not as fun for me as it used to be.
on point #3 Tom says "Samurai Swords" as a replacement for "Bang!", when he meant "Samurai Sword". (Not to be confused with the other Samurai Swords game on this list)
I'd like to see a Boardgame Showdown between Bang! the Dice Game & Samurai Sword.
Holy shit sam did the best turkey thing EVER. He really could have been a Turkey
Smash Up is starting to turkey out for me.
I really wanted more explanation from Sam on why Settlers lost is luster and what had replaced it (or at least what else he would play).
***** Sam has mentioned at some other time that Stone Age has replaced Catan for him.
Oooh thanks for letting me know!
I am really surprised that Agricola didn't make any of the lists. That would probably be my #1.
I'm going to try something: my top ten with out listening to the podcast yet:
1) Puerto Rico
2)Blue Moon City
3) Fairy Tale (liked it at first, hate that pass the card to the left thing)
4) Bohnanza
5) Blue Moon City
6) Power Grid
7) Goa
8) Pandemic
9)Last Night on Earth
10 Battlestar Galactica
My #1: Twilight Struggle
It's a game that on the surface seems like this great strategic struggle between 2 players.
Now that I've spent close to 100 hours playing it, I think I'm done. More and more I realize that the few times luck comes up in the game is way too swingy. Getting a bad first turn hand is huge and can potentially end the game for you right away. The die roll for the first coup (usually Iran), the difference between rolling a 1 and rolling a 6 is a huge difference, and can make or break the entire rest of the game right from the first move. Rolling for wars is a huge swing. Missing rolls for Quagmire/Bear Trap several times in a row can take someone who's played a great game up until that point and lose the whole thing for them.
For a 2-3 hour game, you come to realize that too much luck rides on just a couple of die rolls and the first turn draw. I find myself less and less wanting to play this because of it.
I played the Star Wars: CCG all the way though the Dagobah, and I agree, if I played Hoth and my opponent played Dagobah it became too unbalanced.
Istanbul is a literal Turkey game
do you really need the promo posters in the background? They're not even fully visible and I like being able to see the game collection!
I figured they might be trying to get the curl out of them for the convention they have coming up.
My top 3 would be Apples to Apples, Cards Against Humanity and Munchkin.
Oh god, Munchkin... Top 1 for sure. Played the hell out of that in college.
i agree with all of these. I'd also add Zombies!!! to this list.
Kristina Lapp Munchkin was fun before I knew what strategy was.
+Michael Hastriter Lol, perfect answer
+Cameron Faulkenburg My top would be World of Warcraft. I remember we played it even over the course of few days. Now I wouldn't even consider playing it. Too long, too samey. But we really really enjoyed it for like a year.
My "Turkeys" are old games that have been left behind or newer games that didn't stay as favourites.
10. Alien Frontiers - started off seeming awesome but played out very samey.
9. Puerto Rico - still good, just not as awesome as other games I have played more recently. kind of dry.
8. Hanabi - (deluxe tile version) an innovative game that I played too much at first and don't really find exciting any more. It is more of a puzzle than a game once the group has a predetermined system.
7. Nuclear War - a decent silly game that doesn't measure up to most modern games.
6. Canasta - I loved playing this with my grandmother. It just wouldn't interest me much these days. (see also cribbage)
5. Settlers of Catan - I thought it was great til I tried many other games. It has lost its allure. (see also Carcassonne and Bohnanza)
4. Ubiquity - a roll and move game with much more strategy than most but still an outdated game from long before I knew eurogames
3. Dungeons and Dragons - who has time to play this any more? Who has a group of friends who have time to play it? Not me. It rather play thousands of shorter games.
2. Talisman - loved 1st ed plus most 2nd ed expansions as a kid. I tried to play it one last time for nostalgia and we quit hours later bored and unfulfilled. Sold the expansions to Aldie from BGG.
1. Magic the Gathering - loved it during 3rd ed but lost all interest when it seemed to go through new card sets every year.
Andrew Hazlewood wow. you saved me an hour. thank you
Great list guys. Some of these really rang true for me. I haven't played Heroscape in 4 years because last time I spent nearly three hours taking it down and storing it. I haven't played Axis and Allies in 7 but I played it all through my life and I regret none of that. You guys could do a list of games you initially hated but now love. Might be harder to do. Also, if I had been introduced to gaming with Settlers of Catan, I never would have become a gamer. Booya!!
Sam should join a NWTF calling contest! That was inpressive!
Hey, Tom! How did your bowling team do that night? Looks like you got the best shirts for it.
This is fun.
you shoud do a top ten of top tens you shoud remake to keep them updated. Or mayby not..
audio improves at 36:05 or so
Yeah. I think that he had the mike clipped too close to his arm initially, which is what caused the problem.
What is a good game to replace Axis and Allies? I love the game, but it just takes too long to play.
I wrote a longer comment, but thought it "wouldn't do."
Tom's reasoning makes sense to me, however much I might loathe SoC. Zee's, on the other hand, does not. BSG isn't very reproducible beyond SoC. Hidden roles and traitor mechanics depend on the game around them, and while I suppose you could play Resistance, in which the hidden role mechanic has been carved out of the game, it tends to greatly reduce the weight and tension behind it. If you want something with which the traitor mechanic can interact, Resistance, Shadowrift, or Saboteur won't do.
BSG isn't easily reproducible in another game without losing a lot. That's my major bone of contention with Zee, who is otherwise my favorite personality on the show.
Fury of Dracula needs some house rules to be playable. The whole way Drac moves over water needs a total overhaul. At the very least, he needs to not be able to use wolf form immediately on landing.
"Everything that's in Dune/Rex is in Cosmic Encounter".....wuh??! That's like saying everything that's in Battlestar Galactica is in One Night Werewolf.
Tide of Iron base game scenarios ridiculously favor the Americans (except Battle of the Bulge, which is impossible to win as Americans).
Samurai Swords- I totally had a blast playing it in college too! I think what cooled me on it though is that the winner was always one of the players who started on the West or East end. The players in the middle were always doomed and it wasn't much fun for them.
Race for the Galaxy- It wasn't the iconography that killed it for me, it was that the winner just seemed random. You can improve your game with skill (learning to piggy back actions), but there is a very low ceiling to it and once you reach that moderate level, there's no difference in player performance. I had a hardcore group playing it and they still couldn't differentiate their strategy between good games and bad. You either get lucky with drawing cards or you don't.
I'm really surprised no one put Puerto Rico on their list.
Anyone -- please answer -- WHAT exactly has replaced Tigris and Euphrates? Is there really a better tile laying type abstract game? If so, please please tell me.... I love Tigris and would obviously like a copy but it's pricey online ($90 on amazon)
+TheOmninovoi Amazon now has the FFG reprint for sale
www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_0_15?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=tigris+and+euphrates+board+game&sprefix=tigris+and+euphrates+board+game%2Caps%2C307
Yeah, I 'd like to find out too. Don't really get why Zee diss T&E so much and calling it doesn't have unique mechanisms sounds really arbitrary.
BSG: I actually love playing BSG Express, which is a print-n-play dice version that takes under 90 minutes to play. It picked up a publisher and will be released under the title Dark Moon - keep an eye out for it.
Tigris & Euphrates - "there were too many times I lost and it wasn't because I played poorly." Tom, how do you know? How can you be sure it was just luck or chaos? How can you be sure you didn't play with players who played even better? I would not ask this for any game, but for T&E, yes I do.
Dominion is a great intro to deck builders.
I like the intro; there was too much table at the bottom of the frame, though.
The extra frame space is so the graphics can be inserted in there. I thought the same thing until they started the actual lists and then it made sense.
On a side note...I giggled around the 38 minute mark art the breaking wind sound...yes im twelve :p
Yeah, I kind of figured that out as the video went on...
Gotta get that Geek Chic logo in the shot though. :)
CardboardJungle Do they really need the extra table space so that we can see their hand's and Tom's water bottle?
I think the extra space at the bottom was intended to provide space for the game/developer name image bars.
Tom: please review the microphone placement as it keeps rubbing on your shirt. It's letting the sound down a bit. Cheers. Great top ten by the way!
I hope Lice Shower is at the top of Zee's top 100.