Tolkien and Allegory
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- Опубликовано: 2 фев 2025
- Tolkien was famously not a fan of allegory, yet he wrote at least one story that clearly fits that genre. In this video I take a look at what he actually said and how to reconcile these facts.
For my video on "Leaf by Niggle," click here: • Leaf by Niggle
And for Smith of Wootton Major, click here: • Smith of Wootton Major
And for "On Fairy Stories," click here: • On Fairy Stories
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Perhaps he allegorized real life events just as Dante Alighieri did. I think it might have helped him to cope with much if what he suffered in life. Many talented artists, poets, musicians, and writers struggle with a tendency towards perfectionism. For example, a Japanese sculptor that is an acquaintance of mine once told me that he has a problem with acknowledging when a project of his is actually 'finished.' I can empathize with that as I draw portraits of animals and people as well as landscapes. Thanks so much for your great video. Very inspirational.
Tom Bombadil is an allegory - as he stated in Letter 153: "But I kept him in, and as he was, because he represents certain things otherwise left out. I do not mean him to be an allegory - or I should not have given him so particular, individual, and ridiculous a name - but ‘allegory’ is the only mode of exhibiting certain functions: he is then an ‘allegory’."
As someone who has read both Leaf by Niggle and Smith of Wootton Major I did enjoy them both.
That sentence was mistyped by the publisher. In the original manuscript, Tolkien wrote that he disliked *Al Gore*. He was hoping that Bill Bradley would win the primary.
You explain the complex issues about symbolic meaning in language here. Good job fellow Tolkien fan.
so glad I found your channel
I think I understand his point-of-view more; not only that, I find it quite agreeable.
Well said! There is a huge difference between allegory and having the reader take things that may be allegorical from your work.
Agreed, the opinions regarding the difference between intent and interpretation are very interesting.
The actual difference you’re describing here is between Allegory and applicability. Tolkien goes over these very two things and how they’re often mistaken for one another in the foreword to the fellowship of the ring.
Allegory lies solely with the intention of the Author whereas any symbolism or meaning found by the reader is applicability, not Allegory.
I think the stuff you talk about is very thought provoking and I love it. Something you brought up in this video is a couple of book titles that I did not know of. Have you ever covered books about Tolkien and Tolkien's works that are not written by him. For instance I looked up "Tolkien author of the century" and found a lot of other books. I cannot afford to buy that many books and would love to see your assessment of which of these books are the best. Just a little suggestion to pop in your tin. Another fantastic video by the way, thank you.
I’m actually planning to review Tom Shippey’s book of that title in the near future. Spoiler: it’s VERY good, but not quite as good IMO as his “Road to Middle-Earth” but you’ll see what I mean when I get there. ;)
For me, I'm completely alright with thinking that maybe Tolkien did in fact contradict himself, on purpose perhaps ; to show that he wasn't above doing things he didn't like. I really enjoyed the video and hearing your viewpoints.
I rather think he just knew how to break the “rules” and that “the exception makes the rule.”
He wasn't writing Leaf for us. He was writing for himself so he could better understand himself
This one is your best video yet, thank you for the thought provoking content
17:57 Then is Saruman an allegory for that kind of people?
I would say he is a fictional example of that kind of person.
It’s for Tolkien to determine and nobody else as he is the author of the work. Readers cannot determine allegory in a work as it requires intention that can only come from the person writing it.
Allegory dates art, and Tolkein was trying to write something timeless.
And sometimes an allegory... has strudel in the noodle. _Star Trek: Enterprise_ did an allegory of the War on Terror that not only insinuated 9/11 to be an inside job, but also Al-Qaeda to be all in favor of human rights (and to have the REAL teachings of Christ), that Bush was knowingly and willingly in cahoots with some real enemy--and the AIDS metaphor from a couple seasons earlier was cured by a hair of the dog!
Very good! I believe Leaf by Niggle is an allegory about Tolkien's inability to finish his many works. As you say, Niggle, like Tolkien, continuously tinkered/niggled with his work leaving much undone. Still, what we have is a beautiful picture.
So you are a lawyer. What would you disagree with this statment about all his works you read? Life or Death.
I don’t understand the question.
@@TolkienLorePodcast Sorry to say it so simple, good or evil.
I still don’t understand. Are you asking me if his works are good or evil?
@@TolkienLorePodcast If you get what is 1st and what is second, then his allegorys are simply a work of a bitter two faced want to be a hobbit : ˙(
I wouldn’t say bitter. He probably had his moments but fundamentally the endings of even his more allegorical works are happy in some sense, or at least hopeful.
Well, I cordially dislike Brussels sprouts; but I'll eat them. Occasionally. With a lot of bacon.
This is very fair. About 'Niggle', I think the get-out is that the domination of the author was not actually "purposed". He just woke up one morning and there it was in his head! (Letter 98).
As a reformed Catholic JUDGEMENT is woven throughout the religion. To write allegory is imposing an opinion or asserting the way things should be. God can only do this. The lessons you learn from Tolkien are your own. He was merely a guide.
What I appreciate the most about this fandom is that, this fine gentelemans channel only gets comments about 3-4 lines or longer. Usually very well put together and by well educated or sophisticated peopel.
When i think of Tolkien's dislike for allegory, i don't think he really meant that his stories are devoid of real life events or religious themes, i think what he really meant was that he disliked stories like George Orwell's Animal Farm, which is an allegory of Joseph Stalin and the Soviet Union, because it forces the readers to only look the author's interpretation.
His stories contain influences from his lived experience of course but that isn’t the same thing as Allegory though.
So you know better than the author who repeatedly said these where not allegory!
Smith is certainly not allegory in the strict sense which I admit in the video. As for Niggle. Tolkien preferred the term “topical” but, come on, it’s pretty clearly an allegory.