Oh goodness yes, I feel you 100%. Some of the stuff people send my way I wonder how many times they've already been turned down but they have work to do, darn it
I've heard writers say they have a whole word document for the darlings they've cut. It's like a sad little graveyard where the author can really mourn and still appreciate those things that didn't work in the bigger picture.
I loved this! A way to help anyone feel better about "killing your darlings" is to make a new document to slide all your cut bits in. Even though I know I'm never going to go back in there to find anything, it's comforting to not have the work completely gone. Good luck to everyone editing! :)
One of the agents I follow (Janet Reid) drives home how annoying it is for agents to get polished queries and first chapters only to find the rest of the book hasn't been edited with the same zeal. When you get feedback to one part of your novel, she says, apply it to the REST OF THE NOVEL AS WELL. This helps the self-edit process, I've found. My CP kept telling me that I stated the obvious in pivotal scenes (well yeah, I didn't want the reader to miss a THING!). I made sure to check not just the scene she mentioned but every other scene as well. Now I can usually catch it. Incidentally, I want to piggyback on the "family can't be CP" business. My family happens to be my primary critique group. My father and sister have no sentiment; all three of them are voracious readers. My mom has learned to be brutally honest and work the sentiment in her favor: she actually is as invested in my novel as I am. That said, I'm still going to get involved with an outside critique group. Even if my family is truly as unsentimental and brutal as they seem (and they probably aren't), they're used to angsty banjo players, so the banjo-specific plot points in my novel might not be as clear as the four of us think. So if you're thinking, "but MY mom/grandpa/cousin is actually a great CP," they might well be. BUT . . .
I imagine that loved ones (who can follow instructions) might be great for early feedback for clarity issues. If they're willing and able to give feedback like "who is this person", "which character said that," "what exactly happened here," etc., that's genuinely helpful, and it might take the pressure off.
I'm a freelance editor, so of course, my clients self-publish. Even self-publishing authors need to learn to self-edit well! Thanks for making this video 😊
Alexa, you produce such informative content. I really appreciate the time and effort you put into these. Even simple YT videos can be a time-consuming process. You're so helpful and I admire how thorough and transparent you are about your own process/struggles!
Such great advice. Not editing your own work before sending it out is like a chef not tasting the food they prepare before sending it out. I've been watching your videos for a while now, and I always learn something new. Keep up the great content!
9:50 Also, it's a good idea to get multiple viewpoints on your book. This is because of the inherent subjectivity that's always present when critiquing art. Different people may have different opinions on your book, and getting views from different angles is always a good thing.
I'm actually re-writing a huge fan fic because my first beta readers (and I love them) but they literally gave me no feedback except that they loved everything. And I was really uncomfortable with talking to them about that because I was afraid of hurting their feelings. Obviously, this wasn't a good situation. Eventually, I got a new beta reader who knows what's what and I feel so much better about the work I'm putting out.
GOOD FOR YOU!!! You are a rare bird. So much around fan-fic gets a bad reputation because the next writer would just blithely be happy to send out whatever the beta's loved... AND they tend to get rid of beta's who disagree... or dislike. ;o)
Hello, mind if I ask what fandom do you write for? I also write fanfic and look for a critique partner. If our fandoms match perhaps we can help each other out?
I watched this video a couple years ago and thought I understood. I did get a developmental editor and now her advice lots of it , and this video again mean so much. Thanks my first book at 70 yrs.
I appreciate all of your videos! They’ve really inspired me to keep pushing, that I’m finally seeing the fruits of my labor from the traditional publishing world. I really do enjoy your in-depth videos! ❤️
how does an editing letter actually look? like, is the editor gonna list out all the problems in a word document and send it to you or are they gonna make notes in the margins of the manuscript...? maybe this is trivial but but when i hear 'editing letter' i just imagine how the editor sits in their candle-lit room, rolling out the parchment and sharpening their goose quill and i thought... that cant be right lol
Rewriting an entire book because it's just not working... I've been there. Second book of my series. It was insanely soul-crushing at the time because I'd spent about two years on that book but I'm grateful now (another two years later) because entirely changing EVERYTHING made all the difference. It's kind of scary to start new books now because I never want to have to do that again. Kind of the darkside of not outlining. Sometimes you have to write it to realize that it 100% does not work. Sometimes you need to be halfway through to figure out what the point is. And worse, sometimes you need to finish something before you realize that there is no point at all.
Oof yeah I wrote 60 pages (as a pantser) and stopped when I hit a roadblock. Came back to it a couple of months later and scrapped the entire thing because it was so cringey. Now writing and rewriting an outline for a couple of years now for what is turning out to be a completely different kind of book lol
I've done line edit after line edit after life edit for my manuscript, and for the month of January I am going to do a large content/developmental edit.
Ive often heard it suggested to do it the other way around so youre not chopping work you spent a lot of time perfecting. how did it work out for you doing developmental later?
I'm editing a two year old novel right now. I wanted to do it right away, but had no idea how, so I joined writing groups and forgot about it while I learned techniques to improve my work overall. It was the best thing I ever did - I've written 'by ear' I guess you'd say for most of my life, and have learned a lot using different methods (fanfic, RP, even article writing etc.) but learning the processes and methods that successful writers use (and take the time to teach in public groups) has been the furthest step up I've ever taken. I wrote flash for a year to learn brevity and structure in that form, then applied those principles to my longer work. I wish I'd have had a coach or tutor for this stuff when I was much younger. Thanks Alexa, you always seem to nail this stuff, and your style is wonderful. :)
I don't know if this will help everyone, but there's an app called bamboo paper that you can use for revising or planning. It's like digital notebooks where you can keep clippings of story diagrams and annotating. I don't think writing was the intention of the app, but it's what I use it for!
It just means they didn't connect to it--the writing style, voice, execution, etc. Most often it's code for they didn't connect to your writing (ie: voice) or your execution (ie: good concept, but the writing just isn't there). It's not really something one can magically fix, but generally I would look at your prose (varying sentence structure, sentence rhythm, word choice), as well as execution. How is your pacing; are readers inspired to turn the pages, etc. You can't usually fix it for that specific agent, but you can always make improvements so maybe another agent does feel the spark.
Love this channel! For every book we've written we have a file titled "Working title - scraps", for scenes that wind up not working for the finished book. They are my darlings and may wind up getting posted up for character development, but not for the final book.
Thanka so much for this, Alexa, I'm finally done with my trilogy first drafts and have been trying to decide if I should hire an editor as I want to go traditional publishing. I guess confidence is the real thing here 🙈😜
Would you recommend taking time away from a first draft and then doing your second draft BEFORE starting a new project? Great videos as always, Alexa! Thank you thank you :)
Thank you for this! I just finished my second draft (and many more to come lol) and want to clean it all up as much as possible before looking for beta readers. I threw out so much of my first draft but to make myself feel slightly better I copy and pasted my favorite parts into a separate doc just to look back on if I want 😂
I have "self-editing for fiction writers" byrenni Browne and David king. Second addition. It's very helpful gives exercises to help you through all of it.
This video was great. I have a few questions. In a previous video, I think you said that you had around six months to write the first draft before you had to send it to your editor. At the time I assumed you meant developmental editor, but now after watching this video, I’m guessing you meant line editor? Within that six months is a writer supposed to write their first draft, self-edit it, and then get a critique partner or two to look at it before making further changes? For me, that would be a lot to do within six months. I know other writers write much faster, though. Obviously at the querying/agent stage, you could spend longer and do the aforementioned, but it you have an agent and you’re working towards completing a book, you will have deadlines to meet. I suppose I just want to make some realistic deadlines. To begin with, I’m going to go down the trad route with this new book, and although it’s different from author to author, it would be nice to know which steps to take so you don’t end up under or over editing your work before receiving feedback.
How do you feel about programs like prowriting aid, autocrit or wordrake for the nitty gritty stuff? Or fictionary which supposedly does story arcs and plots points? 😱
All these issues and more are beautifully dealt with in the book series entitled "Write Great Fiction" published by Writer's Digest. Very specific and very helpful guidance for writers of fiction.
Great video :-) My problem is not being able to stop editing!! Every time I get feedback I feel the need to make large changes to the book... the changes are getting smaller over time, but I've never felt completely satisfied with a revision :S
Another great video! Finally time I subscribed! Good luck in your writing! After plotting to death my first manuscript I've finally decided to put words to paper! Should have been doing this last year!
For myself (who has nothing published and prefers short stories to long works) the self-edit9ng happens as I write. I'll put down what I can, but usually get stuck somewhere, so I'll walk away for a while (hours... days... months...) amd when I come back I read through and make edits along with additions. Rinse and repeat.
I find that reading aloud helps to find the awkward sentences, or in the case of dialogue, what is impossible to say with one breath. Grammar, capitalization and punctuation really do matter if you want to be published. The spell checker on your word processing program is a godsend. Use it. Learning the difference between two, too and to, they're there and their, and it's and its, is very important as your spell checker doesn't care if you used the wrong word as long as it's spelled correctly. That goes with words with double letters, such as dinner. If you write diner, it means you're eating out. Cheaply. Jon in a BC desert (not a dessert, which is tasty, so you want one more s)
For line edits and copy edits: I understand the need for grammatically-correct prose (I really do), but many authors use incorrect grammar to convey a unique voice (runons and spacing in Beloved by Toni Morrison and ellipses in Brave New World and Crime and Punishment come to mind--more recently sentence fragments in An Unkindness of Magicians by Kat Howard). For a debut author, where do you think publishers place the line on experimental writing, especially in genre fiction? On big story edits: do you save all the drafts you throw out, or are you a person who needs to physically (digitally?) throw their work out to move on?
I save everything. I just save-as a new Scrivener file when I start a new big revision. I also back up my manuscript in Microsoft Word constantly as I draft and revise, so I always have double backups. Honestly if you're going to be a debut author especially in a commercial genre, you're not going to get to experiment that much. Publishing allows for style to a certain degree, but the authors you mention wrote a LONG TIME AGO or earned their experimentation OR they are writing literary books, where that's acceptable. If you write literary fiction you're fine, but if you write commercial YA you can only push so far. But I use fragments and sometimes run-ons for dramatic impact and I just ignore or stet the changes from the editor when I want to. But I use purposefully obtuse grammar rarely.
@@AlexaDonne thanks! I just realized yesterday that I wrote a tilde in one of my sentences to convey tone like a lot of people do in texts; I fixed it by changing the sentence to a text from a character but I had a moment where I just sat there and pondered my style.
Just my two-cents'... Do what works for you to the greater extent... (obviously) I do NOT know of anyone who literally and physically eliminates work just to move on. Particularly in the new "digital" age, the ongoing "practical" mantra is "Save Everything"... AND for the matter, backing up your work is so ingrained at this point, I don't see the complete "tossing" of any work being even a viable option... If you'd like a recommendation, rather than necessarily opening and "restart from scratch" for every revision... You can "file-copy" to a new location for each revision, tinker with the new file's nomenclature... "Title X... revision x.x" and so forth ...for work flow purposes. This way, with folders in your documents file on the old PC, you can keep a historical view of just how many edits you went through from one work to the next, and since the titles will separate each work, you can organize by revisions or your own customized "levels" of completeness for public engagement... When you're "extracting" or "cutting out" chunks of the thing, it's also not so big an ordeal to have a spare document opened and ready to receive the "paste" function... This clears the edit so you can always go back and "undo" any damage at any time, rather than wiping out the whole "new revision" document and starting that stage all over... It's also (according to some) easier for a writer who has put in the sweat and aggravation of building all this originally, to just move stuff rather than to "destroy" it in just so many syllables. Again, tinkering with your "receiving" document's nomenclature... "Title X... revision x.x pastefile"... or similar (like bucket file instead of paste... whatever floats) It' comes down to what works for you psychologically will still help you... AND as long as you have "space" for it, it's perfectly harmless. As a creator myself, I keep a few spare external optical drives and some DVD's around just to "hardcopy" what I "might prefer to keep around" but isn't serving a great deal of purpose "NOW"... (lolz) It sounds like a lot of extra work, but when it's that tough to get rid of something you've born sweat for... sometimes you just bite the figurative bullet, so you CAN move forward... and still function. ;o)
Yeah, I don't delete my stuff because I have a big-ass computer (and my mom is a photographer who is paranoid about saving everything). I just thought the phrasing was interesting and wondered if there were any authors who actually did delete some of their work.
Wonderful! This was... I wasn't expecting this to be so reassuring! Thank you, Alexa! Ummm I have a question. Do you mind dispensing some advice about chapters written after an exciting inciting incident? They feel... slow after the chase starts. Is there a way to make them NOT dowdy compared to the inciting incident? Thank you. again and more success and happiness to you.
The key thing to focus on is that your next beat should be "deciding to go on the journey"--so you're leading them up to a crucial decision, and that should be exciting! Think of it as reacting to the inciting incident, whatever you have after--shouldn't be too slow :) (if it feels slow you likely have to cut something)
@@AlexaDonne HOLY!!!! I wasn't expecting you to reply OMG!!! I was thinking you wouldn't even notice me because you've got so many fans and WOW! I am so totally looking forward to your new book and I love the cover reveal and i follow you on Twitter and OMG Thank you so so much! Ehem. You're right I may have to cut something. It feels slow and dry probably because it's another major character intro so I need to probably make them meet in this chapter instead and explore this new character's life WITH the person running from the inciting incident. GAHH I'm rambling already! I need to write this all down before it leaves me. THANK YOU AGAIN, ALEXA!!!
This came at the perfect time, I just finished the first draft of my manuscript and I've started editing it! Do you have any advice for rewriting early chapters? I'm struggling to set myself back to the beginning of the story!
I know this was a bit ago so I hope things are going great for you! I always give myself a break between finishing the draft and starting the next draft just so my mind has time to process and I can look at the beginning with fresh eyes.
How do you feel about reaching out to a former English professor or teacher for feedback? Or would that fall into the same category as people who love you?
If you study a Netflix multi season show it tells a writer how to do a developmental edit. Example: take a 3 season show with 10 episodes each. Then read the 30 headliners for each episode in sequence. Duplicate this for any story using "seasons and episodes" as needed.
I feel like deep development edits is more important for pantsers. Not saying plotters wont have to do some major edits like that, but probably less if they have all puzzle pieces planned out from the start.
Sir Arthur Quiller-Couch said "Whenever you feel an impulse to perpetrate a piece of exceptionally fine writing, obey it - whole-heartedly - and delete it before sending your manuscript to press. Murder your darlings".
This is definitely my problem… I can’t cut back for the life of me. Luckily, I have the first draft saved so that I can go back on my decisions if I need to.
I'd love to be apart of a writing critique group. Unfortunately, all of them seem to be zoom based. I want to be able to meet with people in person, but I've had no luck so far finding a group. ☹️
I liked this before I even watched cause I know it's gonna be good XD. I was wondering, as a potential video topic, if you knew anything or could comment anything on how traditional publishing determines the price point for their novels? How do they decide paperback, hard cover and ebook prices? How does that compare with self-publishing prices? Is their changes in the industry lately? I was wondering because I'm looking to get Brightly Burning for Christmas with Christmas money, and was seeing different prices everywhere. Amazon for example has the hardcover on sale for $12.59 (currently cheaper than the paperback at $14.53). The kindle ebook has it for $10.08, where as Rakuten Kobo has the ebook for $9.99 (and that doesn't even consider that the Canadian ebook on Kobo of Brightly Burning is $17.99 on sale, regular $22.49. Even with the dollar conversion, that's almost twice as much as the US ebook.) It just made me so curious how the publishers price things between platforms, and if you get any say at all (I imagine you don't.) And, how do sales on like Amazon work and who determines them?
I can't speak broadly to the topic as it's not something that is super transparent to me as an author (publishers have their own rules/cost metrics, re: what it costs to produce something and what they want to charge for it), but I can comment on Amazon. Amazon intentionally undercuts the prices of all competitors, so they essentially set whatever prices they want on hardcovers with different rules for ebooks (that's a LONG story about publishers fighting with Amazon and an anti-trust lawsuit against publishers and Apple--complicated history). The paperback in question is from the UK, so that's an import price (if you buy it in the UK, it is £7.99, standard pricing). My US paperback won't be out until next year and it should be priced at a pretty standard $9.99, I believe. I'm not familiar with Canadian pricing and that would be up to the Canadian distributor, Raincoast Books, and retail establishment practices in Canada. Generally speaking, however, Amazon is the cheapest, across the board.
I have realized that I sometimes follow characters that aren't important for too long. So, I'm going through my book to remove a lot of... unnecessary scenes. *cries* But if it makes the book better and shorter, that's worth it. :)
omg yes I used to be so scared of erasing characters, but I always have to do it somehow, I write the first draft, then go back and create an outline with the major plot points, and recently I realized one character was completely useless she was just there, she didn't move the plot forward, and served no purpose to the story whatsoever, I made an outline, and the story moves even better without her, because there's nothing of the useless drama she used to cause by existing I usually try to create other stories for those characters, sometimes they actually work alone quite well, but honestly, this one character was so useless that her only character traits were liking horses, being dramatic and being impulsive ugh
I am writing a book and my main issue is editing. I have a hard time with self editing as I did not do English classes in high school and In college I just barely passed I tried but nothing suck to me. What would be your advice for someone like me
Why wouldn't I hire a developmental editor to work with me on my manuscript before querying? Wouldn't that extra bit of polish help my chances of finding an agent/publisher?
Seek out the company of people with better grammar... It DOES NOT mean you have to dump all your "poorly spoken friends", and there's no reason to specifically run out to a college campus to date an English Major... BUT... seeking out someone who actually employs better grammar than yourself will get you more tuned to that mechanically. You might ALSO greatly improve grammar AND spelling in your edits by getting a "text to speech" engine... I still have a copy (somewhere) of an old "freeware" called "Speakonia"... The voices sound like "red-hot-robo-garbage", BUT with a little tinkering, it's tolerable to listen to them read... AND as they clunk and heave over clunky, unwieldly prose with piss poor grammar or crash right through a badly misspelled word... YOU INSTANTLY NOTICE... then you hit "pause" and reflect on how to fix that part... before hitting "play" and continuing through the thing... I found it FAN-DAMN-TASTIC in my reviews of thesis papers and essays through college. ;o)
Hi Alexa. I've been watching and listening to you for a good while now and I love your videos. I seriously need your help..please! My 6 years labor of love mainstream Romance 120k novel is complete. I've deleted chunks of texts and edited it many many times but now I'm editing from 1st to 3rd person 🙄at the advice of a retired editor. My question- I want to go the Traditional route. Once I'm totally finished editing and exhaling, exactly what do I do next? What is the very next thing I do? I appreciate it if you can find the time to respond. Thank you thank you thank you!
@@rfr2703 ..the person I mentioned, the retired editor, she is my critique partner and friend. I just want to know the next step once self-editing is done.
I have too much stuff that i threw out of the book and you sahing that's usually very hard to do, for some stuff it is, but the most isn't, to me, so thank god one thing less to worry about... My feelings... What are those?
My problem is I can’t TURN OFF the editor. I can’t get anywhere in the drafting stage because I can’t just let the writing flow. Any suggestions to help?
Like my husband just told me when I was hung up with editing: “if you have fresh ideas to write, write them. Editing will still be there when you’re ready.”
Alexa: family members will probably tell you that they love it because they love you, and generally not give super useful feedback My sister to me: your beginning sucks because the inciting incident came too soon and I didn't have time to connect with the characters (this being said, I have friends who really wanted to see my story that did EXACTLY what this video said they would, so I'm not denying it's true lol)
Throw out your work.... I know that pain very well, had to throw out a important character and all of her scenes after editing my book for the twentieth time and still working on the revision..
I have a quick query question. Is it ever okay to use movies as comp titles? I’m having a hard time thinking of what book I could compare my manuscript to
It's OK to use movie or TV comps but I would say ONLY if you also have book comps. You need at least one to show agents that you understand the market... and that you read. There are exceptions sometimes though. I didn't use any comps because Jane Eyre in Space stood on its own. You can also say your book will appeal to fans of XYZ author, in lieu of using specific titles.
BoneStudios15 I think it's advised that one of your comp titles should be a book published in the last two years, but he other can be something else, such as a movie. I know the struggle to find a comp title. I think agents want an idea that you're keeping up with what's current. Unfortunately finding the right comp is a huge hurdle. It's almost like they expect you to read say, The Cruel Prince and then make the Purge with it and combine them, but that's not how writing works, you have the idea and concept before you go digging. Unless it's a retelling, in which something such as "The Great Gatsby but mixed with Robin Hood," then agents know immediately what your book is supposed to be.
Alexa Donne ahh okay thanks! I wasn’t sure if movies were allowed for comps in queries. I’m going to keep looking to try and find other books that share a similar theme with mine so I can use one movie comp and novel comp
I leave foreign rights sales to my literary agency, but from what I understand, India isn't a major market for publishing YA books like mine, so I'm unlikely to sell there. Is that what you mean?
He-he. Editing is such a odd word, so incredibly overused, really... In my experience, what it editing basically means is "what you've written isn't good enough that we can make money off of it just yet." The most CRUCIAL editing is readability. Nail that and you've accomplished 90% of your editing. If you can sit and read out loud, in a natural pace, without hesitation, pauses, loss of focus, etc. then you've done a really good editing job. Reading is to be fluent experience. As for self-editing. In my world, it's not 'editing'--it's the process you go through to make sure of that your writing is in alignment with your own vision of how your story is to be, and nothing is ever perfect straight of the bat. Self-editing is the quintessential Quality-Control Process that you go through, and since we are in the space of "show, don't tell", quality control is a much more accurate presentation of what "self-editing" is really all about. Actual editing is what your EDITOR is SUPPOSED to do, however many are simply too "lacy" or disinterested. They want the money but not the work, so (many) authors use freelance-editors instead, which has always been highly amusing to me. I suppose it's a way of job creation...? Anyway, here's what I do, and what I have personally been doing for many-many years in writing fan-fiction, but also blogs, video-game reviews, so on and so forth. I write a certain amount of words everyday--usually about 1000-2000 words for fan-fiction--and then I sleep on it. The next day, before I continue to write, I re-read what I wrote(and edited) the day before yesterday, followed by a heavy, thorough editing of what I wrote yesterday, before I continue on with the day's writing-project. Writing is supposed to be FUN. When writing is HARD, that's a good indicator, that "something is wrong", meaning it's a mental alarm bell, telling you that what you're doing or the way you're doing it has issues attached to it. Remember, you write because you want to write; to tell a story and paint a picture to your readers. When you have a clear vision for what you want to write, writing isn't hard; writing is a challenge -- a healthy challenge. But it's not hard. I love my job, for my job is my hobby. Writing should be a hobby, not a chore. Writing takes practice, it's an art. Well, many hobbies also take practice, unless you're a stamp collector!
It’s not “killing your darlings” but all children need a haircut, a bath, new clothes, etc.
Shit so I been a bad parent?
I like that!
Major haircut for this book child coming!!
@@bryanbrosta9816 a murderer even
Cleaning your darlings 🧼
Hi there! Freelance editor here. I would love if more authors self-edited so I don't keep getting sent first drafts that I have to turn down lol
Oh goodness yes, I feel you 100%. Some of the stuff people send my way I wonder how many times they've already been turned down but they have work to do, darn it
I've heard writers say they have a whole word document for the darlings they've cut. It's like a sad little graveyard where the author can really mourn and still appreciate those things that didn't work in the bigger picture.
I need one of these documents!! Great idea
I loved this! A way to help anyone feel better about "killing your darlings" is to make a new document to slide all your cut bits in. Even though I know I'm never going to go back in there to find anything, it's comforting to not have the work completely gone. Good luck to everyone editing! :)
Yes! For every draft I have a document I literally call "cut stuff." (I've occasionally gone back when I got too edit-happy, too.)
It's made me feel alot better when editing stuff that's for sure
I call these documents the 'fridge' lol
I do this, and most of the time, I go back and realize they weren't as great as I thought. Or I end up using it in another place in my story.
Yes! I have begun whole books from those cut folders!
Do you have a podcast? I’d love to listen to your advice in the car on my way to work ☺️
One of the agents I follow (Janet Reid) drives home how annoying it is for agents to get polished queries and first chapters only to find the rest of the book hasn't been edited with the same zeal. When you get feedback to one part of your novel, she says, apply it to the REST OF THE NOVEL AS WELL. This helps the self-edit process, I've found. My CP kept telling me that I stated the obvious in pivotal scenes (well yeah, I didn't want the reader to miss a THING!). I made sure to check not just the scene she mentioned but every other scene as well. Now I can usually catch it.
Incidentally, I want to piggyback on the "family can't be CP" business. My family happens to be my primary critique group. My father and sister have no sentiment; all three of them are voracious readers. My mom has learned to be brutally honest and work the sentiment in her favor: she actually is as invested in my novel as I am. That said, I'm still going to get involved with an outside critique group. Even if my family is truly as unsentimental and brutal as they seem (and they probably aren't), they're used to angsty banjo players, so the banjo-specific plot points in my novel might not be as clear as the four of us think. So if you're thinking, "but MY mom/grandpa/cousin is actually a great CP," they might well be. BUT . . .
I imagine that loved ones (who can follow instructions) might be great for early feedback for clarity issues. If they're willing and able to give feedback like "who is this person", "which character said that," "what exactly happened here," etc., that's genuinely helpful, and it might take the pressure off.
I'm a freelance editor, so of course, my clients self-publish. Even self-publishing authors need to learn to self-edit well! Thanks for making this video 😊
Alexa, you produce such informative content. I really appreciate the time and effort you put into these. Even simple YT videos can be a time-consuming process. You're so helpful and I admire how thorough and transparent you are about your own process/struggles!
Such great advice. Not editing your own work before sending it out is like a chef not tasting the food they prepare before sending it out. I've been watching your videos for a while now, and I always learn something new. Keep up the great content!
9:50 Also, it's a good idea to get multiple viewpoints on your book. This is because of the inherent subjectivity that's always present when critiquing art. Different people may have different opinions on your book, and getting views from different angles is always a good thing.
Make a plan before you start anything! When you get lost, go back to that plan to find your place. 🤓 Amazing video, as always! 💕
I'm actually re-writing a huge fan fic because my first beta readers (and I love them) but they literally gave me no feedback except that they loved everything. And I was really uncomfortable with talking to them about that because I was afraid of hurting their feelings. Obviously, this wasn't a good situation. Eventually, I got a new beta reader who knows what's what and I feel so much better about the work I'm putting out.
GOOD FOR YOU!!!
You are a rare bird. So much around fan-fic gets a bad reputation because the next writer would just blithely be happy to send out whatever the beta's loved... AND they tend to get rid of beta's who disagree... or dislike. ;o)
Hello, mind if I ask what fandom do you write for? I also write fanfic and look for a critique partner. If our fandoms match perhaps we can help each other out?
I watched this video a couple years ago and thought I understood. I did get a developmental editor and now her advice lots of it , and this video again mean so much. Thanks my first book at 70 yrs.
I appreciate all of your videos!
They’ve really inspired me to keep pushing, that I’m finally seeing the fruits of my labor from the traditional publishing world.
I really do enjoy your in-depth videos! ❤️
This is writing advice I want to shout from the rooftops ❤ I've seen too many writers not follow this advice.
how does an editing letter actually look? like, is the editor gonna list out all the problems in a word document and send it to you or are they gonna make notes in the margins of the manuscript...?
maybe this is trivial but but when i hear 'editing letter' i just imagine how the editor sits in their candle-lit room, rolling out the parchment and sharpening their goose quill and i thought... that cant be right lol
Rewriting an entire book because it's just not working... I've been there. Second book of my series. It was insanely soul-crushing at the time because I'd spent about two years on that book but I'm grateful now (another two years later) because entirely changing EVERYTHING made all the difference. It's kind of scary to start new books now because I never want to have to do that again.
Kind of the darkside of not outlining. Sometimes you have to write it to realize that it 100% does not work. Sometimes you need to be halfway through to figure out what the point is. And worse, sometimes you need to finish something before you realize that there is no point at all.
Oof yeah I wrote 60 pages (as a pantser) and stopped when I hit a roadblock. Came back to it a couple of months later and scrapped the entire thing because it was so cringey. Now writing and rewriting an outline for a couple of years now for what is turning out to be a completely different kind of book lol
@@Nyx_Pyralis honestly for me outlines don't work, at all. I can write an outline only to go haywire when I actually write it.
I've done line edit after line edit after life edit for my manuscript, and for the month of January I am going to do a large content/developmental edit.
Ive often heard it suggested to do it the other way around so youre not chopping work you spent a lot of time perfecting. how did it work out for you doing developmental later?
Your timing is UNCANNY
I'm editing a two year old novel right now. I wanted to do it right away, but had no idea how, so I joined writing groups and forgot about it while I learned techniques to improve my work overall. It was the best thing I ever did - I've written 'by ear' I guess you'd say for most of my life, and have learned a lot using different methods (fanfic, RP, even article writing etc.) but learning the processes and methods that successful writers use (and take the time to teach in public groups) has been the furthest step up I've ever taken. I wrote flash for a year to learn brevity and structure in that form, then applied those principles to my longer work. I wish I'd have had a coach or tutor for this stuff when I was much younger. Thanks Alexa, you always seem to nail this stuff, and your style is wonderful. :)
Just approaching the end of my first first-draft, so thanks for this.
I don't know if this will help everyone, but there's an app called bamboo paper that you can use for revising or planning. It's like digital notebooks where you can keep clippings of story diagrams and annotating. I don't think writing was the intention of the app, but it's what I use it for!
Hi Alexa, when a agent tells you that your book didn't had that "spark", what does that mean and how can I fix that?
It just means they didn't connect to it--the writing style, voice, execution, etc. Most often it's code for they didn't connect to your writing (ie: voice) or your execution (ie: good concept, but the writing just isn't there).
It's not really something one can magically fix, but generally I would look at your prose (varying sentence structure, sentence rhythm, word choice), as well as execution. How is your pacing; are readers inspired to turn the pages, etc. You can't usually fix it for that specific agent, but you can always make improvements so maybe another agent does feel the spark.
Alexa, you are a God-send. Thank you for existing.
Love this channel! For every book we've written we have a file titled "Working title - scraps", for scenes that wind up not working for the finished book. They are my darlings and may wind up getting posted up for character development, but not for the final book.
Thanka so much for this, Alexa, I'm finally done with my trilogy first drafts and have been trying to decide if I should hire an editor as I want to go traditional publishing. I guess confidence is the real thing here 🙈😜
This was so so helpful in conjunction with the videos you linked! Thank you!!!
Thank you so much for all the advice, I'm getting ready to start editing my first draft.
Would you recommend taking time away from a first draft and then doing your second draft BEFORE starting a new project? Great videos as always, Alexa! Thank you thank you :)
Always helps to take a breather.
Thank you for this! I just finished my second draft (and many more to come lol) and want to clean it all up as much as possible before looking for beta readers. I threw out so much of my first draft but to make myself feel slightly better I copy and pasted my favorite parts into a separate doc just to look back on if I want 😂
I have "self-editing for fiction writers" byrenni Browne and David king. Second addition. It's very helpful gives exercises to help you through all of it.
Thank you so much for making this video! Totally needed this!
Have you ever considered making a podcast? The types of videos you make and the advice you give would be perfect for podcasting
I have been thinking of starting one! It's something I plan on figuring out in early 2019 :)
This video was great. I have a few questions.
In a previous video, I think you said that you had around six months to write the first draft before you had to send it to your editor. At the time I assumed you meant developmental editor, but now after watching this video, I’m guessing you meant line editor?
Within that six months is a writer supposed to write their first draft, self-edit it, and then get a critique partner or two to look at it before making further changes?
For me, that would be a lot to do within six months. I know other writers write much faster, though.
Obviously at the querying/agent stage, you could spend longer and do the aforementioned, but it you have an agent and you’re working towards completing a book, you will have deadlines to meet.
I suppose I just want to make some realistic deadlines.
To begin with, I’m going to go down the trad route with this new book, and although it’s different from author to author, it would be nice to know which steps to take so you don’t end up under or over editing your work before receiving feedback.
How do you feel about programs like prowriting aid, autocrit or wordrake for the nitty gritty stuff?
Or fictionary which supposedly does story arcs and plots points? 😱
You really remind me of my science teacher. You are both very strong women who are very nice and helpful but honest and open. Love your content💕
This is where I am in the process!!
All these issues and more are beautifully dealt with in the book series entitled "Write Great Fiction" published by Writer's Digest. Very specific and very helpful guidance for writers of fiction.
Love your channel! Thank you for the info, it’s pure gold! 🤗
Great video :-) My problem is not being able to stop editing!! Every time I get feedback I feel the need to make large changes to the book... the changes are getting smaller over time, but I've never felt completely satisfied with a revision :S
Another great video! Finally time I subscribed! Good luck in your writing!
After plotting to death my first manuscript I've finally decided to put words to paper! Should have been doing this last year!
For myself (who has nothing published and prefers short stories to long works) the self-edit9ng happens as I write. I'll put down what I can, but usually get stuck somewhere, so I'll walk away for a while (hours... days... months...) amd when I come back I read through and make edits along with additions. Rinse and repeat.
Late to the comments but sooo important for those who can't afford prof editors or MFA programs or workshops or conferences.
I find that reading aloud helps to find the awkward sentences, or in the case of dialogue, what is impossible to say with one breath.
Grammar, capitalization and punctuation really do matter if you want to be published. The spell checker on your word processing program is a godsend. Use it.
Learning the difference between two, too and to, they're there and their, and it's and its, is very important as your spell checker doesn't care if you used the wrong word as long as it's spelled correctly.
That goes with words with double letters, such as dinner. If you write diner, it means you're eating out. Cheaply.
Jon in a BC desert (not a dessert, which is tasty, so you want one more s)
For line edits and copy edits: I understand the need for grammatically-correct prose (I really do), but many authors use incorrect grammar to convey a unique voice (runons and spacing in Beloved by Toni Morrison and ellipses in Brave New World and Crime and Punishment come to mind--more recently sentence fragments in An Unkindness of Magicians by Kat Howard). For a debut author, where do you think publishers place the line on experimental writing, especially in genre fiction?
On big story edits: do you save all the drafts you throw out, or are you a person who needs to physically (digitally?) throw their work out to move on?
I save everything. I just save-as a new Scrivener file when I start a new big revision. I also back up my manuscript in Microsoft Word constantly as I draft and revise, so I always have double backups.
Honestly if you're going to be a debut author especially in a commercial genre, you're not going to get to experiment that much. Publishing allows for style to a certain degree, but the authors you mention wrote a LONG TIME AGO or earned their experimentation OR they are writing literary books, where that's acceptable. If you write literary fiction you're fine, but if you write commercial YA you can only push so far.
But I use fragments and sometimes run-ons for dramatic impact and I just ignore or stet the changes from the editor when I want to. But I use purposefully obtuse grammar rarely.
@@AlexaDonne thanks! I just realized yesterday that I wrote a tilde in one of my sentences to convey tone like a lot of people do in texts; I fixed it by changing the sentence to a text from a character but I had a moment where I just sat there and pondered my style.
Just my two-cents'... Do what works for you to the greater extent... (obviously)
I do NOT know of anyone who literally and physically eliminates work just to move on. Particularly in the new "digital" age, the ongoing "practical" mantra is "Save Everything"... AND for the matter, backing up your work is so ingrained at this point, I don't see the complete "tossing" of any work being even a viable option...
If you'd like a recommendation, rather than necessarily opening and "restart from scratch" for every revision... You can "file-copy" to a new location for each revision, tinker with the new file's nomenclature...
"Title X... revision x.x" and so forth
...for work flow purposes. This way, with folders in your documents file on the old PC, you can keep a historical view of just how many edits you went through from one work to the next, and since the titles will separate each work, you can organize by revisions or your own customized "levels" of completeness for public engagement...
When you're "extracting" or "cutting out" chunks of the thing, it's also not so big an ordeal to have a spare document opened and ready to receive the "paste" function... This clears the edit so you can always go back and "undo" any damage at any time, rather than wiping out the whole "new revision" document and starting that stage all over... It's also (according to some) easier for a writer who has put in the sweat and aggravation of building all this originally, to just move stuff rather than to "destroy" it in just so many syllables. Again, tinkering with your "receiving" document's nomenclature...
"Title X... revision x.x pastefile"... or similar (like bucket file instead of paste... whatever floats)
It' comes down to what works for you psychologically will still help you... AND as long as you have "space" for it, it's perfectly harmless. As a creator myself, I keep a few spare external optical drives and some DVD's around just to "hardcopy" what I "might prefer to keep around" but isn't serving a great deal of purpose "NOW"... (lolz) It sounds like a lot of extra work, but when it's that tough to get rid of something you've born sweat for... sometimes you just bite the figurative bullet, so you CAN move forward... and still function. ;o)
Yeah, I don't delete my stuff because I have a big-ass computer (and my mom is a photographer who is paranoid about saving everything). I just thought the phrasing was interesting and wondered if there were any authors who actually did delete some of their work.
You're AMAZING!!! I want to hug you!!
Thanks A LOT for sharing all your knowledge.
Sending love from Brazil
Thanks, Alexa! Lots of useful advice. Not sure that you mentioned it but reading work aloud is helpful during editing.
I use Word to write and it can read it outloud for you. I find that extremely helpful.
Thank you!
Wonderful! This was... I wasn't expecting this to be so reassuring! Thank you, Alexa! Ummm I have a question. Do you mind dispensing some advice about chapters written after an exciting inciting incident? They feel... slow after the chase starts. Is there a way to make them NOT dowdy compared to the inciting incident? Thank you. again and more success and happiness to you.
The key thing to focus on is that your next beat should be "deciding to go on the journey"--so you're leading them up to a crucial decision, and that should be exciting! Think of it as reacting to the inciting incident, whatever you have after--shouldn't be too slow :) (if it feels slow you likely have to cut something)
@@AlexaDonne HOLY!!!! I wasn't expecting you to reply OMG!!! I was thinking you wouldn't even notice me because you've got so many fans and WOW! I am so totally looking forward to your new book and I love the cover reveal and i follow you on Twitter and OMG Thank you so so much! Ehem. You're right I may have to cut something. It feels slow and dry probably because it's another major character intro so I need to probably make them meet in this chapter instead and explore this new character's life WITH the person running from the inciting incident. GAHH I'm rambling already! I need to write this all down before it leaves me. THANK YOU AGAIN, ALEXA!!!
This came at the perfect time, I just finished the first draft of my manuscript and I've started editing it!
Do you have any advice for rewriting early chapters? I'm struggling to set myself back to the beginning of the story!
I know this was a bit ago so I hope things are going great for you! I always give myself a break between finishing the draft and starting the next draft just so my mind has time to process and I can look at the beginning with fresh eyes.
How do you feel about reaching out to a former English professor or teacher for feedback? Or would that fall into the same category as people who love you?
If you study a Netflix multi season show it tells a writer how to do a developmental edit. Example: take a 3 season show with 10 episodes each. Then read the 30 headliners for each episode in sequence. Duplicate this for any story using "seasons and episodes" as needed.
I feel like deep development edits is more important for pantsers. Not saying plotters wont have to do some major edits like that, but probably less if they have all puzzle pieces planned out from the start.
Love your videos!!!
Sir Arthur Quiller-Couch said "Whenever you feel an impulse to perpetrate a piece of exceptionally fine writing, obey it - whole-heartedly - and delete it before sending your manuscript to press. Murder
your darlings".
Hey, I think it would be really useful to turn these videos into a podcast series as well. I think it would be quite successful.
Thanks for all the advice Alexa!
This is definitely my problem… I can’t cut back for the life of me. Luckily, I have the first draft saved so that I can go back on my decisions if I need to.
I'm used to being brutal to myself in general that's why I can read my own stuff with objectivity when it comes to editing.
Thanks for making these videos
What do you recommend for finding beta readers or critique partners for fanfiction?
I'd love to be apart of a writing critique group. Unfortunately, all of them seem to be zoom based. I want to be able to meet with people in person, but I've had no luck so far finding a group. ☹️
Pacing is my hardest area, do you have a list of books in YA and Adult Romance that are good on pacing?
Thanks for this advice x
I liked this before I even watched cause I know it's gonna be good XD.
I was wondering, as a potential video topic, if you knew anything or could comment anything on how traditional publishing determines the price point for their novels? How do they decide paperback, hard cover and ebook prices? How does that compare with self-publishing prices? Is their changes in the industry lately?
I was wondering because I'm looking to get Brightly Burning for Christmas with Christmas money, and was seeing different prices everywhere. Amazon for example has the hardcover on sale for $12.59 (currently cheaper than the paperback at $14.53). The kindle ebook has it for $10.08, where as Rakuten Kobo has the ebook for $9.99 (and that doesn't even consider that the Canadian ebook on Kobo of Brightly Burning is $17.99 on sale, regular $22.49. Even with the dollar conversion, that's almost twice as much as the US ebook.) It just made me so curious how the publishers price things between platforms, and if you get any say at all (I imagine you don't.) And, how do sales on like Amazon work and who determines them?
I can't speak broadly to the topic as it's not something that is super transparent to me as an author (publishers have their own rules/cost metrics, re: what it costs to produce something and what they want to charge for it), but I can comment on Amazon. Amazon intentionally undercuts the prices of all competitors, so they essentially set whatever prices they want on hardcovers with different rules for ebooks (that's a LONG story about publishers fighting with Amazon and an anti-trust lawsuit against publishers and Apple--complicated history). The paperback in question is from the UK, so that's an import price (if you buy it in the UK, it is £7.99, standard pricing). My US paperback won't be out until next year and it should be priced at a pretty standard $9.99, I believe. I'm not familiar with Canadian pricing and that would be up to the Canadian distributor, Raincoast Books, and retail establishment practices in Canada. Generally speaking, however, Amazon is the cheapest, across the board.
@@AlexaDonne Oh wow! That's still really interesting and informative though, thank you!
I have realized that I sometimes follow characters that aren't important for too long. So, I'm going through my book to remove a lot of... unnecessary scenes. *cries* But if it makes the book better and shorter, that's worth it. :)
omg yes
I used to be so scared of erasing characters, but I always have to do it somehow, I write the first draft, then go back and create an outline with the major plot points, and recently I realized one character was completely useless
she was just there, she didn't move the plot forward, and served no purpose to the story whatsoever, I made an outline, and the story moves even better without her, because there's nothing of the useless drama she used to cause by existing
I usually try to create other stories for those characters, sometimes they actually work alone quite well, but honestly, this one character was so useless that her only character traits were liking horses, being dramatic and being impulsive
ugh
I rewrote my entire first chapter... It is very much better now
I am writing a book and my main issue is editing. I have a hard time with self editing as I did not do English classes in high school and In college I just barely passed I tried but nothing suck to me. What would be your advice for someone like me
How do you break shiny book syndrome and the infamous editing loop? I hit a wall and my solutions to the wall, are detrimental.
Love the video
Why wouldn't I hire a developmental editor to work with me on my manuscript before querying? Wouldn't that extra bit of polish help my chances of finding an agent/publisher?
I wrote a book. Then heavily edited it. Then i rewrote the whole thing from beginning to end. Now i'm editing it again. 😅🙄
I am terrible at grammar any tips on how to improve?
There's a free site called Grammarly.
Seek out the company of people with better grammar... It DOES NOT mean you have to dump all your "poorly spoken friends", and there's no reason to specifically run out to a college campus to date an English Major...
BUT... seeking out someone who actually employs better grammar than yourself will get you more tuned to that mechanically.
You might ALSO greatly improve grammar AND spelling in your edits by getting a "text to speech" engine... I still have a copy (somewhere) of an old "freeware" called "Speakonia"... The voices sound like "red-hot-robo-garbage", BUT with a little tinkering, it's tolerable to listen to them read... AND as they clunk and heave over clunky, unwieldly prose with piss poor grammar or crash right through a badly misspelled word... YOU INSTANTLY NOTICE... then you hit "pause" and reflect on how to fix that part... before hitting "play" and continuing through the thing... I found it FAN-DAMN-TASTIC in my reviews of thesis papers and essays through college. ;o)
Hi Alexa. I've been watching and listening to you for a good while now and I love your videos. I seriously need your help..please! My 6 years labor of love mainstream Romance 120k novel is complete. I've deleted chunks of texts and edited it many many times but now I'm editing from 1st to 3rd person 🙄at the advice of a retired editor.
My question- I want to go the Traditional route. Once I'm totally finished editing and exhaling, exactly what do I do next? What is the very next thing I do? I appreciate it if you can find the time to respond.
Thank you thank you thank you!
Maybe critique partner? And if you do not have one, someone you trust to see if the developmental stuff make sense
@@rfr2703 ..the person I mentioned, the retired editor, she is my critique partner and friend. I just want to know the next step once self-editing is done.
I have too much stuff that i threw out of the book and you sahing that's usually very hard to do, for some stuff it is, but the most isn't, to me, so thank god one thing less to worry about... My feelings... What are those?
My problem is I can’t TURN OFF the editor. I can’t get anywhere in the drafting stage because I can’t just let the writing flow. Any suggestions to help?
Type with your eyes shut.
Just tell yourself that you can come back and fix it all later, and don't reread anything you write while you're writing it. Hope that helps!
Like my husband just told me when I was hung up with editing: “if you have fresh ideas to write, write them. Editing will still be there when you’re ready.”
Alexa: family members will probably tell you that they love it because they love you, and generally not give super useful feedback
My sister to me: your beginning sucks because the inciting incident came too soon and I didn't have time to connect with the characters
(this being said, I have friends who really wanted to see my story that did EXACTLY what this video said they would, so I'm not denying it's true lol)
Throw out your work.... I know that pain very well, had to throw out a important character and all of her scenes after editing my book for the twentieth time and still working on the revision..
I have a quick query question. Is it ever okay to use movies as comp titles? I’m having a hard time thinking of what book I could compare my manuscript to
It's OK to use movie or TV comps but I would say ONLY if you also have book comps. You need at least one to show agents that you understand the market... and that you read. There are exceptions sometimes though. I didn't use any comps because Jane Eyre in Space stood on its own. You can also say your book will appeal to fans of XYZ author, in lieu of using specific titles.
BoneStudios15 I think it's advised that one of your comp titles should be a book published in the last two years, but he other can be something else, such as a movie. I know the struggle to find a comp title. I think agents want an idea that you're keeping up with what's current. Unfortunately finding the right comp is a huge hurdle. It's almost like they expect you to read say, The Cruel Prince and then make the Purge with it and combine them, but that's not how writing works, you have the idea and concept before you go digging. Unless it's a retelling, in which something such as "The Great Gatsby but mixed with Robin Hood," then agents know immediately what your book is supposed to be.
Alexa Donne ahh okay thanks! I wasn’t sure if movies were allowed for comps in queries. I’m going to keep looking to try and find other books that share a similar theme with mine so I can use one movie comp and novel comp
Eprocto-Files true ^^^ writing the query will be one hurtle and finding comp titles will likely be my biggest hurtle 😂
What do you think of as a us citizen, getting published in a place like india? Whats your thoughts on that?
I leave foreign rights sales to my literary agency, but from what I understand, India isn't a major market for publishing YA books like mine, so I'm unlikely to sell there. Is that what you mean?
He-he. Editing is such a odd word, so incredibly overused, really... In my experience, what it editing basically means is "what you've written isn't good enough that we can make money off of it just yet."
The most CRUCIAL editing is readability. Nail that and you've accomplished 90% of your editing. If you can sit and read out loud, in a natural pace, without hesitation, pauses, loss of focus, etc. then you've done a really good editing job. Reading is to be fluent experience.
As for self-editing. In my world, it's not 'editing'--it's the process you go through to make sure of that your writing is in alignment with your own vision of how your story is to be, and nothing is ever perfect straight of the bat. Self-editing is the quintessential Quality-Control Process that you go through, and since we are in the space of "show, don't tell", quality control is a much more accurate presentation of what "self-editing" is really all about.
Actual editing is what your EDITOR is SUPPOSED to do, however many are simply too "lacy" or disinterested. They want the money but not the work, so (many) authors use freelance-editors instead, which has always been highly amusing to me. I suppose it's a way of job creation...?
Anyway, here's what I do, and what I have personally been doing for many-many years in writing fan-fiction, but also blogs, video-game reviews, so on and so forth. I write a certain amount of words everyday--usually about 1000-2000 words for fan-fiction--and then I sleep on it. The next day, before I continue to write, I re-read what I wrote(and edited) the day before yesterday, followed by a heavy, thorough editing of what I wrote yesterday, before I continue on with the day's writing-project.
Writing is supposed to be FUN. When writing is HARD, that's a good indicator, that "something is wrong", meaning it's a mental alarm bell, telling you that what you're doing or the way you're doing it has issues attached to it. Remember, you write because you want to write; to tell a story and paint a picture to your readers. When you have a clear vision for what you want to write, writing isn't hard; writing is a challenge -- a healthy challenge. But it's not hard.
I love my job, for my job is my hobby. Writing should be a hobby, not a chore. Writing takes practice, it's an art. Well, many hobbies also take practice, unless you're a stamp collector!
I just loved your comment
Thanks for this comment. It's extremely helpful.
This has nothing to do with any topics on writing/publishing/etc, but do I see the 10th Kingdom on the bottom of your shelf?
Yes! I adore it. That's my old DVD set but I also bought it on Bluray because why not own TWO copies?!
How to correct dialogue tag problems - "Said and Asked." End of lesson. hehehe
Knowing how to self edit if you're going to be a professional writer is just common sense.
LMAO!!!! I am in the flaming pile of garbage stage, for sure.
#jerkbrain. Yes, I have that 😅👍
I’ve had to have a writerly miscarriage