Thanks for sharing this Dave. It’s so rare that people like Andy are given the opportunity & the time to express their thoughts. For those that don’t know Andy is amongst many things an independent politician and has served as an independent MSP. What a breath of fresh air to the current main stream political circus in the U.K.
Read this gentleman’s book ‘Who owns Scotland’ way back when I studied at Aberdeen University. Nice to know that not only is he still banging the drum but that he has progressed and developed the conversation from where it was when I read the book back 2 decades ago. Nice upload and thank you David and Andy, these words have not fallen on deaf ears
Brilliant. When I lived in England and went climbing and walking in Scotland I did not realise that the landscape was not what it should be. It was a landscape that was struggling to survive and as Andy says - if the ecological systems in a landscape are dying then the landscape itself is dying and as humanity is eventually dependent upon that landscape being healthy, we are also dying. I have lived for 32 years in Aotearoa and would now live no where else (although I would like to visit the highlands and islands again) and we have similar questions of land "ownership ". Indeed a crucial factor in the future of Aotearoa is the meaning of the idea of "owning land". I shall shed this video to people here as it says a lot about these questions across the world.
The brilliant Wightman is able to talk in a straightforward manner about the outrageous inequality of land ownership in Scotland. Land is the birthright of all Scots and it has been stolen from us by force and later by lawyers. His description of the “rewilding” movement is spot on. The only long term solution is small farming and forestry enterprises, started and managed by local people.
What is horrible is that at the very time 'clan tartans' were being adopted and 'highland dress' was becoming fashionable, the highland people were being driven off their land.
Thank you Dave. That was a fascinating insight into the wider issues surrounding the Highlands’ sad ecological status. It comes at a time when I am planning the offsetting strategy for the university at which I am sustainability manager. As such, I represent one of the cohort that Andy described in his closing remarks. Financing sensitive reforestation projects in Scotland is high on the agenda and this has certainly given me food for thought. Regards, Julian.
Check historical records for the region, see what plants / trees / bushes / grasses were native and only plant those. We bring in flowers and trees and shrubs and grasses for our gardens and none are native, they bring pests, diseases and a lack of natural competition. Often it is better to just strip the non-native species and eave the land alone to recover and reforest itself.
I’m a keen hiker, I only moved to Scotland 5 years ago and the landownership is a clear issue I have noticed while on my hikes without even much knowledge or background on these issues. I was surprised when I started asking questions. The whole system is old school, classist and as undemocratic as it can be and it’s slowly but surely damaging such extraordinary landscape. So far the “take interest “ journey mentioned in the video has just given me a headache and made me extremely sad. I was not expecting Scotland to have such inequality in place when it comes to the land. It’s heartbreaking
Being half Scottish I'd never quite managed to understand why I prefer the Japanese mountains to Scotland - It's the lack of trees! Extremely interesting conversation, thank you!
Definitely is a lot more trees in Japan, yes. But also a ridiculous amount of Sugi trees that were planted after the war and need to be cut down. Also probably not the same kind of land ownership as there is in Scotland. Which is a good thing in my opinion.
@@nirusuroraku6283 Yes, but any trees compared to no trees is preferable to my mind - I've heard of motorway bridges uncompleted as they couldn't find the owner of the mountain, unheard of over here!
@@ajadrew Oh yeah, trees for sure. But the Sugi trees, in some areas, take away from what should be beautiful deciduous forest. Also, I am not surprised that they can't find the owner sometimes as the countryside becomes less and less populated and/or owners die alone with no family. Fingers crossed that things change for the better in Scotland.
@@nirusuroraku6283 There's an interesting book called Lost Japan by Alex Kerr, written in the 70's which talks about the issue re replanting etc... And sad re the depopulation as well... I heard there are 8 million abandoned properties in Japan.
Also, important to consider though that if the Scottish mountains were covered in trees, you'd lose the much rarer habitat of Heather moorland and all the species that rely on that eg Curlew, mountain hare, hen harrier etc
Excellent, extremely intelligent, very interesting and well put together talk!! I look forward to the day when all the British Isles are rewilded and as pristine, natural and stunningly beautiful as they once were! You should be Knighted, Dave!!
Dave,your editing for Keystone was great! A.Wightman did not lose any impact at all. A great job. Also,this interview is first class. Well done indeed.Thank you.
I work in the wintertime doing selective forestry with horses. It was common practice here to graze livestock in the woods up until about 40 years ago. It is readily apparent to an experienced eye to tell whether or not a woodland was at one time grazed, reduced biodiversity, worn eroded cowpaths, large gaps in tree size with no intermediate sizes. It is just as easy to distinguish a woodland that was clearcut vs one that was highgraded vs one that was selectively harvested. Unfortunately a lot of private landowners are greedy for the big cheque the big commercial mechanised loggers will cut you on the spot. (even though its a lowball offer maybe half what the timber is worth) The devastating aftermath looks like hurricane destruction, but they either don't care, or don't realise that careful timber harvesting can leave the woods more lovely and productive than before. I just can't pay as much for timber the way a big company can because I scale timber honestly and keep my deals fair and square.
I subscribed to your channel years ago for the excellent climbing content and keto discussions, but I find I most thoroughly enjoy these vignettes on landscape. I have been considering buying 5-10 acres of forest in the Inverness area for a couple of years to run a forest school on and at the same time enhance the land’s biodiversity. This video was fascinating and very eloquently articulated by Andy. Well done 👍🏻
Thank you for posting Dave! I really think, that we as a climbing community should pay more attention to the conservation of climbing areas and nature in general. Especially with the recent influx of people coming from climbing gyms our impact on nature is increasing. It might be small compared to industries and common tourism, but as an outdoor community it is important to lead by example!
Cheers and good information I walked and talked with Andy when we were in the Lairig and Aberdeen University in the late 1970's early 80,s. Much of this was in the air then. Simon Artley MA (hons)1981 Best wishes from the past Andy.
It is so nice Dave that you're videos are not just related to climbing, but with everything that sorrounds the climbing experience. This really shows your love for nature and mountains, something I can really relate to.
such a brilliant and articulate piece about the current state we are in - thanks for putting this educational piece together, really informative and one for our community in the Monadhliath swamped a little bit in renewables and hydro
Very good consideration--and for a number of reasons! My group, e.g., will soon be looking for a relatively small parcel of land to create a cooperative (intentional) community of like-minded people. Your talk here is helpful to our plans. Thank you so much for this piece.
Really interesting video. Thanks for sharing this. I run my webpage as was struggling to find clear, straightforward information on landownership in Scotland but have found this video answered a lot of questions all at once. I come from the Fife area but recently spent years in Midlothian. These councils seem to do an OK job but I have found it hard to get clear answers on who and when decisions are made regarding property development on what appears to be green belt.
I've seen and hears a lot of rubbish over the years on the interweb, so it's a nice change to listen to someone who actually cares about what they are talking about, and has a proper knowledge as well. Excellent posting.
Agree with his comments on rewilding. It's not just a case of abandoning the land. Have been arguing that we should talk about restoration instead of rewilding for a while.
We have recently had bushfires around my home city of Canberra, Australia. This caused massive damage however within two to three years you wouldn't know a fire came through as the regrowth is that rapid. We also have land that was grazed and has now been allowed to return to native bushland. The repair can start happening really quickly if it's allowed to.
Careful and slow regeneration of natural plant species does mean reduction in deer and sheep.The same can be said of other areas of the UK. Andy shows great understanding of the issue and challenges.The term" rewilding" has led to pushback by some vested interests and sceptics. Our open wild places have also come under pressure from poor behaviour by "wild campers" and out door tourism and the fires in the flow country and Moray are examples where there has been longer term environmental damage by humans Wider public and particularly young people should understand and respect more about our fragile wild places mountain coastline lochs and rivers.Sometimes government bodies try to take control or work in conflict with each other. There are similar issues of pressure in the Alps, Pyrenees for example. The interview gives an encouraging perspective of what can be achieved and should be (However...whose head would be turned by ...ski lifts mini hydro schemes or holiday chalets...or even beaver introduction) Lets hope to see those trees growing and diverse vegetation for the pine marten wildcat mountain hare capercaillie
Many thanks for raising the problem of wilderness protection and land ownership! Land ownership is a fundamental environmental issue because the deficiency of ecosystems is the main environmental problem because they form and support the conditions of life on the Earth. Protected areas are an illustrative example to understand the matter better. The lands of strictly protected ones like national parks or reserves are mainly in public ownership. Governments of some countries rent wildlands from private owners because they have no enough the area in public ownership for proper functioning of national parks. It is not reliable practice because land owners may reject or not extend rental agreements. Nowadays many wildlands are protected by legislation even if they are in private property. Land owners usually receive monetary compensation for limited land use. However, it is much easier to establish large strictly protected areas on state-owned lands than in other types of land ownership i.e. the more land is in state ownership, the easier to solve the key environmental problem that is conservation and restoration of natural ecosystems.
In 1981 I did the Michael Palin railway journey up to and through Scotland. At the time I saw swathes of new planted trees all over the west side. Did that effort fail or was it just stopped?
Deer numbers are fairly well regulated in the open hill areas of Scotland by NatureScot. The numbers of deer are increasing within the forested areas, not over the open hill where they can be seen and managed. This aspect is often overlooked, but the low hanging fruit are always those picked first. Take a look at Creag Maegaidh where the interview has been recorded, and notice the paucity of wildlife, and of economic activity. Sustainable conservation is also about the people, families, communities, and how that ecosystem can best sustain itself. People must eat too.
Deer numbers (and possibly behaviour) on the open hill are stopping natural forest regeneration. At Mar Lodge the pine woods only started naturally regenerating with deer numbers of 3 per square kilometre. The national average deer density is over 9 per square kilometre. Perhaps Lynx would alter deer browsing behaviour such that natural vegetation could recover without us having to kill so many. Areas of patchy native woodland have far greater biodiversity than heavily browsed open ground. The birch woods at Creag Meagaidh will host far more different plant species, fungi, insects, birds, reptiles and mammals than heavily browsed open ground. Deer prefer such habitat. Currently the vast majority of Scotland's unfarmed land is kept in an extremely ecologically degraded state for the benefit of very few people. There is greater economic benefit from such land that has been 'rewilded'. It offers better hunting and fishing, wildlife tourism, better flood protection for areas down stream, cleaner water, cleaner air, local people can forage for fruit, nuts, mushrooms. I agree we are part of the ecosystem too. I hope we can make greater use of the land around us and produce more food locally.
In regards to working with private owner's; would it be possible to provide a service for rewilding estates for hunters in the Highlands?? Would it not prove prudent to themselves as well to keep and promote wildlands for hunting as well. Granted I'm and American who has been blessed with a country that has preserved it's wildlands since the early 20th century; and I personally grew up hunting in forests, taiga wetlands, and Temperate Rainforests. The main factor I noted out of all of these is how important conservation truly is for continuing our hunting traditions; that includes owning land just to keep it wild.
The thing is, how do you get involved in these local rewilding events and schemes. How do they start, because from what I have gathered from this very good interview is that you need a ploitician with the same interests on your side. Alan Watson Featherstone from trees for life is an example of someone who made a huge effort for the Caledonian forest cause and him and others helped bring the subject to public interest. I am really surprised at the number of people who are unaware or not interested in the rewilding of the Scottish Highlands and Southern Uplands.
Man, people of scotland should be able to buy a bit of the highlands to not own as perse but to own as a collective towards future heritage of earth caring! And it should be law!
Seems to me that none of the land reforms scandinavian countries have gone through did not happen in UK, which is a root cause of land issues. The latest in Scandinavia was the reform in early 20th century where croft tennants became owners of their lands with legislative decisions. Yet in Finland in 1940's Sovietunion grabbed finnish territory so 450 000 karelinian finns were evacuated. Farmers were given land from elsewhere from the country and big landowners had to give up their lands to accommodate karelinian farmers. State gave big land owner a compensation for the land according state compensation rates.
Sadly little acknowledgement of the original inhabitants of the Highlands, who were abundant throughout until Culloden. The natural state of the world INCLUDES diversely owned communities (not suggesting there aren't some already). That the clearance of native populations from the land (1750 to about 1900) is treated with indifference or not at all, by those pondering "rewilding" Scotland is a fantastic indulgence that exceeds the natural right of an individual speaking on their own behalf. The proper thing to do would be to break up the estates in an orderly manner, over a prolonged period, with the right to buy property exclusively offered to the people of Scotland. This, at least, would allow for opportunities long denied them and perhaps end the welfare state. To that end I agree with Andy Wightman's sentiment people tend to care for what they own.
The original inhabitants of the highlands went elsewhere - often to countries like the US, Canada Australia and New Zealand, which had extensive areas of wild land, which they settled and farmed, destroying its wildness. Do you want those communities to restore the habitats that they degraded and then return to farm the Highlands again. I don’t think they’d be very keen.
Thanks for your remarks. I disagree that human habitation equals "destroying its wilderness", it's more a process of symbiotic evolution. Nature after all, just wants to kill you and will eventually regardless. Besides, I'm not advocating bringing back the original inhabitants (I'm 75% Highland Scottish but not resident, which would exclude me from consideration here) I'm suggesting opening diverse land ownership to Scotland's current population, sassenach, nan gall and all. @@adamzain6770
I used to want to visit Scotland and nearby countries, but once I learned that the landscape is actually so degraded, the beauty just seems too sad to me.
I agree most of it is degraded, decimated even from an ecological point of view. Much of upland Scotland is an ecological desert. It is sad but equally wonderful to see some areas being allowed to recover. Carrifran Wildwood and Mar Lodge are beautiful examples.
The interesting point is the Scottish government is "giving away" Vast amounts of Scottish land to private ownership ,as a point of reference, take the Fort William aluminium smelter to a company that is being given not only the plant with a "grant guarantee" and vast amounts of land to boot .
I'm not sure I have the same faith in local communities to act in the interests of nature as you do. Particularly when there are cost of living struggles. Local people were broadly in favour of the Menie Estate and the job opportunities that were promised. A landowner committed to rewilding can sometimes be a positive thing regardless. Particularly if committed to working with 3rd sector organisations. I wouldn't let ideology stand in the way of good outcomes.
Wow, excellent, thanks for sharing this. Can you provide examples of the reading Andy refers to on Ecology, and anything else relevant to this discussion? #nofairBnB
Andy mentioned post glacial period barrenness as not re-wilded. Just a thought but why would we not adopt the most lush naturally abundant (all wildlife, marine life) since then as the ideal to target and see how close we can get (compromises understood along the way) there.
We have the same problem in Ireland.. One is that the non native pine trees makes the soil and water acidic and norhing will grow. Would their not be the same problem with Scots Pine??
Going vegan for anyone who can has on average the biggest potential for allowing massive rewinding. Reintroducing wolves could be done in parallel . The 2nd is not easy but is imo essential in the long run. Get rid of hunting estate function and encouraging red deer
Maybe this is a stupid question, coming from an American: If there are no trees in the Scottish highlands, where do the deer shelter? In North America, the deer need the forest for shelter, and to raise their young, they don't just linger out in the open.
They also have very little in the way of wild predators to hide from. Fawns are vulnerable to raptors and foxes maybe but the numbers of deer are such that the impact is minimal. No wolves, lynx or other apex predators left as they were hunted to extinction centuries ago. Ironically at least in part to keep the deer for sport hunting, largely by the wealthy. The grouse shooting another thing that's had a big impact on uplands in that the landscape has been managed to keep their population up at the expense of other animals and plants.
@@climbermacleodBear, wolf, lynx, as you know, are what are being referred to. A country that has destroyed its apex predators has no right to criticise other nations - particularly those which are industrialising - for failing to protect their own. If we want lions, tigers, bears etc. in the world, along with the ecosystems they are a part of, then we need to put our own house in order, and help show that it can be done in an industrialised society.
@@climbermacleod No but now I’ll be on the look out! I had no idea John Muir has Scottish roots. I did a fair amount of climbing around Yosemite Valley and Tuolumne Meadows-it’s real neat when life connects dots in these remarkable sort of ways. I guess as we grow up we start to care a little bit more about stuff outside ourselves. Like its so funny how John Muir to me for so long was just the guy who had some trails named after him around the valley 🤦♂️ Where do you reckon I should start with Mr Wightman’s books?
@@climbermacleod Really like this content! Have an interesting project, that I started about 15 years ago when found a piece of ground down by local river with trees growing at all sorts of weird angles but all the roots were undermined due to flooding, so started filling in round the roots to make it better for riding my mountain bike on But from making all the ground flow really well, it does not get overrode away! However land owner has recently brought in a digger to do some changes just down stream to help with flood management, or something like that? but can see that will change again most likely drastically the next time area floods?
It does not matter who owns what amounts of land. What matters are the laws what is permitted . How to use the private and public owned land. This leads to obligations to reforestation with which trees and to detailed animal use. If the laws are not kept by the private land owners they loose their land and the public takes over.
my grandad was a Scottish mp and i love scotland i think reintroduce of apex predator's to keep the sheep and dear moving would benifit the land the most so why not
Basically grazing animals create an habit built for grazing. Without predators to check numbers down, humans need to step. It's basic science when you think about it but never the less it's so important to share this knowledge. Restoration is perhaps a better mentality to have in the British Isles than the concept of rewilding. If humans look to restore we don't need let it become wild (only few places we can go wild) but instead manage the environment for the benefit of the Isles. Not for the benefit of the elite, no reason why we can't pass bills to regulate the management of land in all parts of the UK by pressure of democracy.
Very informative but Governments/The people also encourage what is in the public interest through adoption of policy and by setting economic parameters with grants and subsidies {eg headage payments for sheep and cattle, tree planting grants). Hopefully Governments will also set the rules in respect of one of the new frontiers in land use, carbon offsetting. How that can be done effectively I don t know but Good Luck with that!
giving we have a housing emergency as well as a lot of natural restoration to do, I think Scotland should take the move many countries have by preventing people who are not residents of Scotland from buying properties. all the foreign owners are literally taking money out of our economic circle be that in grants or in profits. I would very much like to have a little cabin in the woods and live sustainably hunting and what not but it is just not possible because we don't have the forests or even the biodiversity and stability to forage long term anymore.
Very intresting man unfortunately some people in UK may call him communist. Problem with reforestation is monocultures and introduction fast groving but non native species.
The largest landholding in Scotland is owned by the Scottish Ministers. It is also the largest landholding in most need of rehabilitation in terms of ecosystem restoration, including watercourse rehabilitation. We pay for the apparent lack of activity in these respects, and the ‘glacial’ pace of change for the better. Their record is impressively poor, and represent an extremely poor value for taxpayers’ involuntary inputs.
Andy Wightman who as Green MSP "promised" me he would help with the abusive behaviour of my housing association at the time, when I was desperate... but then pretty much 'entirely' went back on his word, and changed his mind?
The irony is , if you were to rewind this land. There would be far more and varied animals to hunt. I would add I only believe in hunting for food and not for entertainment.
Ecological restoration of some areas doesn't mean no meat from the land. Most proponents of ecological restoration are asking for a fraction of Scotland to be given over to nature, not all of it. I imagine it would make sense to restore those areas of poorer grazing. 'Rewilded' land still provides some meat, presumably less but of greater variety and quality. More animals are supported by a functioning ecosystem, certainly large numbers of deer will be. 'Rewilded' land also means more fish in the rivers and seas. Many species are declining rapidly in Scotland including Salmon (decline of 30-50% since 2006). They need trees for shade in spawning grounds and leaf litter for insects in the food chain. This is my perspective anyway :) If you eat much meat likelihood is much of it was raised on feed grown abroad. There is not enough land in the world to feed animals so we can all eat meat. Maybe I'm wrong :)
Andy must think that deer management in the highlands is easy. Climbing up a few hundred metres of altitude to try and get within 150m of 100+ pairs of eyes and ears all well tuned to see/hear you isn’t easy you know. And then, you get 1 shot, on 1 beast. Instead of lambasting the Scottish estates, why not support them. Do you eat Venison? I imagine 95% of the people moaning about ‘re-wilding’ have never so much as tasted venison. Killing all these deer with no market for their meat is crazy. Opening up the season (there’s now no closed season) of male deer in Scotland isn’t going to change anything. They don’t give birth to the young. 1 Red stag can serving many many hinds. The estates aren’t making huge money off the sport of Deer. £150 a day for an outing on the hinds isn’t going to pay many bills.
It's rather more complicated than how much an estate makes per beast. But yes we eat venison and know quite well how easy it is to get near a deer, since we live here. I also made this film ruclips.net/video/SOtUPSWv5nA/видео.htmlsi=WAU5ERCVE2GlpuTt
![Chris Langan - The Interview THEY Didn't Want You To See - CTMU [Full Version; Timestamps]](/img/1.gif)
Thanks for sharing this Dave. It’s so rare that people like Andy are given the opportunity & the time to express their thoughts. For those that don’t know Andy is amongst many things an independent politician and has served as an independent MSP. What a breath of fresh air to the current main stream political circus in the U.K.
To be fair, he’s only an independent because he is opposed to progressions in trans rights.
Read this gentleman’s book ‘Who owns Scotland’ way back when I studied at Aberdeen University. Nice to know that not only is he still banging the drum but that he has progressed and developed the conversation from where it was when I read the book back 2 decades ago. Nice upload and thank you David and Andy, these words have not fallen on deaf ears
Brilliant. When I lived in England and went climbing and walking in Scotland I did not realise that the landscape was not what it should be. It was a landscape that was struggling to survive and as Andy says - if the ecological systems in a landscape are dying then the landscape itself is dying and as humanity is eventually dependent upon that landscape being healthy, we are also dying. I have lived for 32 years in Aotearoa and would now live no where else (although I would like to visit the highlands and islands again) and we have similar questions of land "ownership ". Indeed a crucial factor in the future of Aotearoa is the meaning of the idea of "owning land". I shall shed this video to people here as it says a lot about these questions across the world.
The brilliant Wightman is able to talk in a straightforward manner about the outrageous inequality of land ownership in Scotland. Land is the birthright of all Scots and it has been stolen from us by force and later by lawyers. His description of the “rewilding” movement is spot on. The only long term solution is small farming and forestry enterprises, started and managed by local people.
What is horrible is that at the very time 'clan tartans' were being adopted and 'highland dress' was becoming fashionable, the highland people were being driven off their land.
Thank you Dave. That was a fascinating insight into the wider issues surrounding the Highlands’ sad ecological status. It comes at a time when I am planning the offsetting strategy for the university at which I am sustainability manager. As such, I represent one of the cohort that Andy described in his closing remarks. Financing sensitive reforestation projects in Scotland is high on the agenda and this has certainly given me food for thought.
Regards, Julian.
Check historical records for the region, see what plants / trees / bushes / grasses were native and only plant those.
We bring in flowers and trees and shrubs and grasses for our gardens and none are native, they bring pests, diseases and a lack of natural competition.
Often it is better to just strip the non-native species and eave the land alone to recover and reforest itself.
I’m a keen hiker, I only moved to Scotland 5 years ago and the landownership is a clear issue I have noticed while on my hikes without even much knowledge or background on these issues. I was surprised when I started asking questions. The whole system is old school, classist and as undemocratic as it can be and it’s slowly but surely damaging such extraordinary landscape. So far the “take interest “ journey mentioned in the video has just given me a headache and made me extremely sad. I was not expecting Scotland to have such inequality in place when it comes to the land. It’s heartbreaking
Probably the most skewed land ownership in the world. 90% by 1%. Can't see SNP doing much about it, at least Ireland had the 19th Land Acts.
Being half Scottish I'd never quite managed to understand why I prefer the Japanese mountains to Scotland - It's the lack of trees! Extremely interesting conversation, thank you!
Definitely is a lot more trees in Japan, yes. But also a ridiculous amount of Sugi trees that were planted after the war and need to be cut down. Also probably not the same kind of land ownership as there is in Scotland. Which is a good thing in my opinion.
@@nirusuroraku6283 Yes, but any trees compared to no trees is preferable to my mind - I've heard of motorway bridges uncompleted as they couldn't find the owner of the mountain, unheard of over here!
@@ajadrew Oh yeah, trees for sure. But the Sugi trees, in some areas, take away from what should be beautiful deciduous forest. Also, I am not surprised that they can't find the owner sometimes as the countryside becomes less and less populated and/or owners die alone with no family. Fingers crossed that things change for the better in Scotland.
@@nirusuroraku6283 There's an interesting book called Lost Japan by Alex Kerr, written in the 70's which talks about the issue re replanting etc... And sad re the depopulation as well... I heard there are 8 million abandoned properties in Japan.
Also, important to consider though that if the Scottish mountains were covered in trees, you'd lose the much rarer habitat of Heather moorland and all the species that rely on that eg Curlew, mountain hare, hen harrier etc
Excellent, extremely intelligent, very interesting and well put together talk!! I look forward to the day when all the British Isles are rewilded and as pristine, natural and stunningly beautiful as they once were! You should be Knighted, Dave!!
absolutely spot on, what knowledge, advice and corrections.
Andy has a very interesting book called "The Poor have no Lawyers", very interesting insight on a land related topic i was never aware of.
Dave,your editing for Keystone was great! A.Wightman did not lose any impact at all.
A great job.
Also,this interview is first class.
Well done indeed.Thank you.
I work in the wintertime doing selective forestry with horses. It was common practice here to graze livestock in the woods up until about 40 years ago. It is readily apparent to an experienced eye to tell whether or not a woodland was at one time grazed, reduced biodiversity, worn eroded cowpaths, large gaps in tree size with no intermediate sizes. It is just as easy to distinguish a woodland that was clearcut vs one that was highgraded vs one that was selectively harvested. Unfortunately a lot of private landowners are greedy for the big cheque the big commercial mechanised loggers will cut you on the spot. (even though its a lowball offer maybe half what the timber is worth) The devastating aftermath looks like hurricane destruction, but they either don't care, or don't realise that careful timber harvesting can leave the woods more lovely and productive than before. I just can't pay as much for timber the way a big company can because I scale timber honestly and keep my deals fair and square.
Lochearnhead was my walking area see 50's 70's, the Beauty of the Peace and Quiet . . .
I subscribed to your channel years ago for the excellent climbing content and keto discussions, but I find I most thoroughly enjoy these vignettes on landscape. I have been considering buying 5-10 acres of forest in the Inverness area for a couple of years to run a forest school on and at the same time enhance the land’s biodiversity. This video was fascinating and very eloquently articulated by Andy. Well done 👍🏻
Thank you for posting Dave! I really think, that we as a climbing community should pay more attention to the conservation of climbing areas and nature in general. Especially with the recent influx of people coming from climbing gyms our impact on nature is increasing. It might be small compared to industries and common tourism, but as an outdoor community it is important to lead by example!
Completely agree! We are doing this on a project we recently kicked off in Portugal with local climbers: ruclips.net/video/ax9HYVcj9TI/видео.html
Excellent. A succinct lesson in .... everything! And also inspiring advice on how to be a good citizen. Good work!
Such a well articulated set of concepts. Very enjoyable and informative. I was led to this video after reading The Treeline by Ben Rawlence.
Probably won’t be your highest views, but I personally really appreciate learning around our sport, and the impact on our environments. Thanks!
Cheers and good information I walked and talked with Andy when we were in the Lairig and Aberdeen University in the late 1970's early 80,s.
Much of this was in the air then.
Simon Artley MA (hons)1981
Best wishes from the past Andy.
Andy is always so clear and articulate - and really interesting
It is so nice Dave that you're videos are not just related to climbing, but with everything that sorrounds the climbing experience. This really shows your love for nature and mountains, something I can really relate to.
Excellent video that every politician and land owner should watch and act on.
That was a very interesting discussion, and I really hope the rewilding effort brings back the native landscape! Thanks for this Dave!
A discussion usually involves more than one person discussing. I could be wrong.
Absolutely fascinating, thanks so much for sharing this Dave.
Thnx for sharing this. Very interesting. It's actually a universal story and can be copy pasted into my local surroundings.
Really enjoyed that, thank you.
A very interesting man. I could listen to him all day.
Grá as Éireann.
The scots talk the talk but they don't walk the walk.
such a brilliant and articulate piece about the current state we are in - thanks for putting this educational piece together, really informative and one for our community in the Monadhliath swamped a little bit in renewables and hydro
Probably the most educational and well rounded video I’ve seen in a while. Really enjoyed it.
Very good consideration--and for a number of reasons! My group, e.g., will soon be looking for a relatively small parcel of land to create a cooperative (intentional) community of like-minded people. Your talk here is helpful to our plans. Thank you so much for this piece.
amazing man, so inspirational, wise and elequent. thanks for posting.
a clear fact based explanation of why so much of Scotland is so barren.
Really interesting video. Thanks for sharing this. I run my webpage as was struggling to find clear, straightforward information on landownership in Scotland but have found this video answered a lot of questions all at once. I come from the Fife area but recently spent years in Midlothian. These councils seem to do an OK job but I have found it hard to get clear answers on who and when decisions are made regarding property development on what appears to be green belt.
I've seen and hears a lot of rubbish over the years on the interweb, so it's a nice change to listen to someone who actually cares about what they are talking about, and has a proper knowledge as well. Excellent posting.
there are some interesting projects appearing national nature reserves - super national nature reserves - such as purbeck - large projects
Thank you for this awesome beautiful video!
Thanks to Andy and Dave for sharing this.
Thank you, for this fascinating information, it answers the question, I had, thinking of the Scottish Highlands !
Agree with his comments on rewilding. It's not just a case of abandoning the land. Have been arguing that we should talk about restoration instead of rewilding for a while.
We have recently had bushfires around my home city of Canberra, Australia. This caused massive damage however within two to three years you wouldn't know a fire came through as the regrowth is that rapid. We also have land that was grazed and has now been allowed to return to native bushland. The repair can start happening really quickly if it's allowed to.
Fascinating, never realised why the hills look the way they do
Truly this is the best RUclips channel
Thank you.
Excellent talk.
wonderful way to start the day. thank you for this
Well spoken, Andy
Wonderful video Dave, thanks for sharing.
Excellent interview Dave. Thanks for posting.
The usual Andy Wightman brilliance. (And tree belays everywhere.)
Fascinating and so appropriate.
Careful and slow regeneration of natural plant species does mean reduction in deer and sheep.The same can be said of other areas of the UK.
Andy shows great understanding of the issue and challenges.The term" rewilding" has led to pushback by some vested interests and sceptics.
Our open wild places have also come under pressure from poor behaviour by "wild campers" and out door tourism and the fires in the flow country and Moray are examples where there has been longer term environmental damage by humans
Wider public and particularly young people should understand and respect more about our fragile wild places mountain coastline lochs and rivers.Sometimes government bodies try to take control or work in conflict with each other.
There are similar issues of pressure in the Alps, Pyrenees for example.
The interview gives an encouraging perspective of what can be achieved and should be
(However...whose head would be turned by ...ski lifts mini hydro schemes or holiday chalets...or even beaver introduction)
Lets hope to see those trees growing and diverse vegetation for the pine marten wildcat mountain hare capercaillie
What a fantastic post, Dave!
Very insightful. Thanks.
Many thanks for raising the problem of wilderness protection and land ownership! Land ownership is a fundamental environmental issue because the deficiency of ecosystems is the main environmental problem because they form and support the conditions of life on the Earth.
Protected areas are an illustrative example to understand the matter better. The lands of strictly protected ones like national parks or reserves are mainly in public ownership. Governments of some countries rent wildlands from private owners because they have no enough the area in public ownership for proper functioning of national parks. It is not reliable practice because land owners may reject or not extend rental agreements.
Nowadays many wildlands are protected by legislation even if they are in private property. Land owners usually receive monetary compensation for limited land use. However, it is much easier to establish large strictly protected areas on state-owned lands than in other types of land ownership i.e. the more land is in state ownership, the easier to solve the key environmental problem that is conservation and restoration of natural ecosystems.
Thanks for sharing this Dave!
Excellent and informative interview, thanks Dave.
Nicely filmed and edited Dave. Top stuff.
Really enjoyed this! Clear and balanced overview of the issues. Hoping some winter climbing content is coming soon too?
In 1981 I did the Michael Palin railway journey up to and through Scotland. At the time I saw swathes of new planted trees all over the west side. Did that effort fail or was it just stopped?
Deer numbers are fairly well regulated in the open hill areas of Scotland by NatureScot. The numbers of deer are increasing within the forested areas, not over the open hill where they can be seen and managed. This aspect is often overlooked, but the low hanging fruit are always those picked first. Take a look at Creag Maegaidh where the interview has been recorded, and notice the paucity of wildlife, and of economic activity. Sustainable conservation is also about the people, families, communities, and how that ecosystem can best sustain itself. People must eat too.
Deer numbers (and possibly behaviour) on the open hill are stopping natural forest regeneration. At Mar Lodge the pine woods only started naturally regenerating with deer numbers of 3 per square kilometre. The national average deer density is over 9 per square kilometre. Perhaps Lynx would alter deer browsing behaviour such that natural vegetation could recover without us having to kill so many.
Areas of patchy native woodland have far greater biodiversity than heavily browsed open ground. The birch woods at Creag Meagaidh will host far more different plant species, fungi, insects, birds, reptiles and mammals than heavily browsed open ground. Deer prefer such habitat.
Currently the vast majority of Scotland's unfarmed land is kept in an extremely ecologically degraded state for the benefit of very few people.
There is greater economic benefit from such land that has been 'rewilded'.
It offers better hunting and fishing, wildlife tourism, better flood protection for areas down stream, cleaner water, cleaner air, local people can forage for fruit, nuts, mushrooms.
I agree we are part of the ecosystem too. I hope we can make greater use of the land around us and produce more food locally.
I’d like to see Andy Wightman as the first President of a newly independent Scottish Republic .
In regards to working with private owner's; would it be possible to provide a service for rewilding estates for hunters in the Highlands?? Would it not prove prudent to themselves as well to keep and promote wildlands for hunting as well.
Granted I'm and American who has been blessed with a country that has preserved it's wildlands since the early 20th century; and I personally grew up hunting in forests, taiga wetlands, and Temperate Rainforests. The main factor I noted out of all of these is how important conservation truly is for continuing our hunting traditions; that includes owning land just to keep it wild.
passionant, merci!
The thing is, how do you get involved in these local rewilding events and schemes. How do they start, because from what I have gathered from this very good interview is that you need a ploitician with the same interests on your side. Alan Watson Featherstone from trees for life is an example of someone who made a huge effort for the Caledonian forest cause and him and others helped bring the subject to public interest. I am really surprised at the number of people who are unaware or not interested in the rewilding of the Scottish Highlands and Southern Uplands.
Man, people of scotland should be able to buy a bit of the highlands to not own as perse but to own as a collective towards future heritage of earth caring! And it should be law!
The more and more videos I watch on nature videos, the more I can't but help think the earth would be so much better off with out humans.
Excellent.
I really like the taste of arctic char. It's harder and harder to get some though.
Seems to me that none of the land reforms scandinavian countries have gone through did not happen in UK, which is a root cause of land issues.
The latest in Scandinavia was the reform in early 20th century where croft tennants became owners of their lands with legislative decisions.
Yet in Finland in 1940's Sovietunion grabbed finnish territory so 450 000 karelinian finns were evacuated. Farmers were given land from elsewhere from the country and big landowners had to give up their lands to accommodate karelinian farmers. State gave big land owner a compensation for the land according state compensation rates.
Sadly little acknowledgement of the original inhabitants of the Highlands, who were abundant throughout until Culloden. The natural state of the world INCLUDES diversely owned communities (not suggesting there aren't some already).
That the clearance of native populations from the land (1750 to about 1900) is treated with indifference or not at all, by those pondering "rewilding" Scotland is a fantastic indulgence that exceeds the natural right of an individual speaking on their own behalf.
The proper thing to do would be to break up the estates in an orderly manner, over a prolonged period, with the right to buy property exclusively offered to the people of Scotland. This, at least, would allow for opportunities long denied them and perhaps end the welfare state. To that end I agree with Andy Wightman's sentiment people tend to care for what they own.
The original inhabitants of the highlands went elsewhere - often to countries like the US, Canada Australia and New Zealand, which had extensive areas of wild land, which they settled and farmed, destroying its wildness. Do you want those communities to restore the habitats that they degraded and then return to farm the Highlands again. I don’t think they’d be very keen.
Thanks for your remarks. I disagree that human habitation equals "destroying its wilderness", it's more a process of symbiotic evolution. Nature after all, just wants to kill you and will eventually regardless. Besides, I'm not advocating bringing back the original inhabitants (I'm 75% Highland Scottish but not resident, which would exclude me from consideration here) I'm suggesting opening diverse land ownership to Scotland's current population, sassenach, nan gall and all. @@adamzain6770
Culloden did not lead to depopulation of the Highlands - try reading a bit of history 😂😂😂
I used to want to visit Scotland and nearby countries, but once I learned that the landscape is actually so degraded, the beauty just seems too sad to me.
Degraded is quite a strong word. Also, there is huge variation from place to place within Scotland as to how the land is managed.
I agree most of it is degraded, decimated even from an ecological point of view. Much of upland Scotland is an ecological desert. It is sad but equally wonderful to see some areas being allowed to recover. Carrifran Wildwood and Mar Lodge are beautiful examples.
The interesting point is the Scottish government is "giving away" Vast amounts of Scottish land to private ownership ,as a point of reference, take the Fort William aluminium smelter to a company that is being given not only the plant with a "grant guarantee" and vast amounts of land to boot .
I'm not sure I have the same faith in local communities to act in the interests of nature as you do. Particularly when there are cost of living struggles. Local people were broadly in favour of the Menie Estate and the job opportunities that were promised. A landowner committed to rewilding can sometimes be a positive thing regardless. Particularly if committed to working with 3rd sector organisations. I wouldn't let ideology stand in the way of good outcomes.
nature knows best
Excellent political message - thanks
Wow, excellent, thanks for sharing this. Can you provide examples of the reading Andy refers to on Ecology, and anything else relevant to this discussion?
#nofairBnB
Andy mentioned post glacial period barrenness as not re-wilded. Just a thought but why would we not adopt the most lush naturally abundant (all wildlife, marine life) since then as the ideal to target and see how close we can get (compromises understood along the way) there.
Let's put people back on the land. They tend to look after their resources
We have the same problem in Ireland.. One is that the non native pine trees makes the soil and water acidic and norhing will grow. Would their not be the same problem with Scots
Pine??
Going vegan for anyone who can has on average the biggest potential for allowing massive rewinding. Reintroducing wolves could be done in parallel . The 2nd is not easy but is imo essential in the long run. Get rid of hunting estate function and encouraging red deer
Such a loss that Andy is no longer a Holyrood MSP.
Maybe this is a stupid question, coming from an American: If there are no trees in the Scottish highlands, where do the deer shelter? In North America, the deer need the forest for shelter, and to raise their young, they don't just linger out in the open.
In Scotland they have adapted to the open hill.
They also have very little in the way of wild predators to hide from. Fawns are vulnerable to raptors and foxes maybe but the numbers of deer are such that the impact is minimal. No wolves, lynx or other apex predators left as they were hunted to extinction centuries ago. Ironically at least in part to keep the deer for sport hunting, largely by the wealthy. The grouse shooting another thing that's had a big impact on uplands in that the landscape has been managed to keep their population up at the expense of other animals and plants.
How about restoring the predators that were the natural deer control?
We have never gone away. Just need to assume our role properly.
@@climbermacleodBear, wolf, lynx, as you know, are what are being referred to. A country that has destroyed its apex predators has no right to criticise other nations - particularly those which are industrialising - for failing to protect their own. If we want lions, tigers, bears etc. in the world, along with the ecosystems they are a part of, then we need to put our own house in order, and help show that it can be done in an industrialised society.
Anyone know where to go for more content like this?
This channel will have more. Have you read Andy books?
@@climbermacleod No but now I’ll be on the look out! I had no idea John Muir has Scottish roots. I did a fair amount of climbing around Yosemite Valley and Tuolumne Meadows-it’s real neat when life connects dots in these remarkable sort of ways. I guess as we grow up we start to care a little bit more about stuff outside ourselves. Like its so funny how John Muir to me for so long was just the guy who had some trails named after him around the valley 🤦♂️
Where do you reckon I should start with Mr Wightman’s books?
@@climbermacleod Really like this content!
Have an interesting project, that I started about 15 years ago when found a piece of ground down by local river with trees growing at all sorts of weird angles but all the roots were undermined due to flooding, so started filling in round the roots to make it better for riding my mountain bike on
But from making all the ground flow really well, it does not get overrode away!
However land owner has recently brought in a digger to do some changes just down stream to help with flood management, or something like that?
but can see that will change again most likely drastically the next time area floods?
It does not matter who owns what amounts of land. What matters are the laws what is permitted . How to use the private and public owned land. This leads to obligations to reforestation with which trees and to detailed animal use. If the laws are not kept by the private land owners they loose their land and the public takes over.
my grandad was a Scottish mp and i love scotland i think reintroduce of apex predator's to keep the sheep and dear moving would benifit the land the most so why not
Basically grazing animals create an habit built for grazing. Without predators to check numbers down, humans need to step. It's basic science when you think about it but never the less it's so important to share this knowledge. Restoration is perhaps a better mentality to have in the British Isles than the concept of rewilding. If humans look to restore we don't need let it become wild (only few places we can go wild) but instead manage the environment for the benefit of the Isles. Not for the benefit of the elite, no reason why we can't pass bills to regulate the management of land in all parts of the UK by pressure of democracy.
Very informative but Governments/The people also encourage what is in the public interest through adoption of policy and by setting economic parameters with grants and subsidies {eg headage payments for sheep and cattle, tree planting grants).
Hopefully Governments will also set the rules in respect of one of the new frontiers in land use, carbon offsetting. How that can be done effectively I don t know but Good Luck with that!
Tell the SNP - they are hell bent on centralisation.
giving we have a housing emergency as well as a lot of natural restoration to do, I think Scotland should take the move many countries have by preventing people who are not residents of Scotland from buying properties. all the foreign owners are literally taking money out of our economic circle be that in grants or in profits.
I would very much like to have a little cabin in the woods and live sustainably hunting and what not but it is just not possible because we don't have the forests or even the biodiversity and stability to forage long term anymore.
Am I right to believe that these days most of the sheep meat ie mutton is sold to asia for curry and or for lamb here?
Very intresting man unfortunately some people in UK may call him communist. Problem with reforestation is monocultures and introduction fast groving but non native species.
That isn’t what is being proposed.
Yes, the 1% who own all the land.
The largest landholding in Scotland is owned by the Scottish Ministers. It is also the largest landholding in most need of rehabilitation in terms of ecosystem restoration, including watercourse rehabilitation. We pay for the apparent lack of activity in these respects, and the ‘glacial’ pace of change for the better. Their record is impressively poor, and represent an extremely poor value for taxpayers’ involuntary inputs.
Andy Wightman who as Green MSP "promised" me he would help with the abusive behaviour of my housing association at the time, when I was desperate... but then pretty much 'entirely' went back on his word, and changed his mind?
The irony is , if you were to rewind this land. There would be far more and varied animals to hunt. I would add I only believe in hunting for food and not for entertainment.
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So when can we expect to se the first black bear.?
Clearly can see the Corporatocracy has taken control there too ;(
I shut down as soon as you missed out the gap in ecology and history
What will the people eat from their land without animals for meat? Or is this not important, and should we just buy in our food?
Agree. I also think this is important and needs to be central in the question of land management in the highlands.
Ecological restoration of some areas doesn't mean no meat from the land. Most proponents of ecological restoration are asking for a fraction of Scotland to be given over to nature, not all of it. I imagine it would make sense to restore those areas of poorer grazing. 'Rewilded' land still provides some meat, presumably less but of greater variety and quality. More animals are supported by a functioning ecosystem, certainly large numbers of deer will be. 'Rewilded' land also means more fish in the rivers and seas. Many species are declining rapidly in Scotland including Salmon (decline of 30-50% since 2006). They need trees for shade in spawning grounds and leaf litter for insects in the food chain. This is my perspective anyway :)
If you eat much meat likelihood is much of it was raised on feed grown abroad. There is not enough land in the world to feed animals so we can all eat meat. Maybe I'm wrong :)
Rewilding laws
Andy must think that deer management in the highlands is easy. Climbing up a few hundred metres of altitude to try and get within 150m of 100+ pairs of eyes and ears all well tuned to see/hear you isn’t easy you know.
And then, you get 1 shot, on 1 beast.
Instead of lambasting the Scottish estates, why not support them. Do you eat Venison? I imagine 95% of the people moaning about ‘re-wilding’ have never so much as tasted venison. Killing all these deer with no market for their meat is crazy.
Opening up the season (there’s now no closed season) of male deer in Scotland isn’t going to change anything. They don’t give birth to the young. 1 Red stag can serving many many hinds.
The estates aren’t making huge money off the sport of Deer. £150 a day for an outing on the hinds isn’t going to pay many bills.
It's rather more complicated than how much an estate makes per beast. But yes we eat venison and know quite well how easy it is to get near a deer, since we live here. I also made this film ruclips.net/video/SOtUPSWv5nA/видео.htmlsi=WAU5ERCVE2GlpuTt