That is used for everything. People called a story about Tom Brady’s (foot)balls “Deflategate” People called the story about the Saints “Bounteygate” People called the other Patriots thing “Spygate” That is just football. People call the video game stuff “Gamergate” Adding “Gate” to the end of something is the NPC default.
To explain the issue in Layman's Terms: It's not that any specific perk is more common than any others in a particular slot. Instead, there seems to be an issue with the RNG where the perk that is selected to go in Column 3 influences which perk gets selected for Column 4.
Yup! Has to do with how Computers simulate randomness. If not properly worked around or fixed it can lead to similar numbers when in succession, random roll 1 perk then the other, and that's why the closeness of a perk matters
@@johnnyhall9154 I can imagine it wouldn't be that hard for this issue to go unnoticed, too. Like, if you're looking at just 3rd column perks, each of the options is showing up an equal amount of time. Same if you're just looking at 4th column perks. You only get this issue if you're looking at which specific combinations of perks are showing up.
Yes it's the position of the perks and computer RNG isn't perfect, but it is usually good enough to not have intentional outliers like this. This isn't simply a case of "computers can never be 100% random.
@@sQuaTsiFieD I'd say it is, just that the problem is man made, part of the flawed nature of the algo they went with. It took the bloating of perk pools and a powercrept combo people farmed en masse for people to notice that there was a pattern in the pseudo-random.
It's always wholesome when the devs and community can come together to figure out the spaghetti code inside of the game. The Destiny community is one of the only communties I know that sifts through as much data as it does when it comes to things like this.
There's a reply from Jared Schnelle under the Destiny2Team tweet showing how Bungie might've missed this for so long. Basically, even if the combos were proximity based, the individual perks themselves would show a "normal distribution." So its likely Bungie just never thought to sort their data by perk combos, only individual ones.
That makes a lot of sense. No one would think of putting pairs together. When everyone things RNG, it’s "how often would x show up." Not " how often would x show up when given y."
I like to imagine the Bungie Devs who made the RNG system back in Forsaken did this on purpose and just never told anyone, so all the new people at Bungie are also finding out about this along with us.
IDK. Since the data is in the API it seems wild to think that not one single employee wouldn't have ever noticed that certain trait combos drop much more than others. Also strange that the traits appear in a given column in different order depending on the weapon, like they're manually arranged per weapon.
Oh im sure just like they didn’t know xp was being throttled back in year one they even said “xp throttling isn’t real yall are just crazy now give us more money” yet upon further investigation we found out that not only was xp being throttled they were actively lying to the community seems kinda familiar to that situation huh of course bungie isn’t gonna come out and say “yes we knew about it” because thatd definitely be the last nail in the coffin for bungie so they play dumb eventually fix it probably won’t compensate the community for all the time we wasted over the years and everyone will eventually move on until they’re caught doing another scummy thing in a few months where the cycle will begin a new
@@Mr_Ruhlthey play the game but they don't grind like us ... I have no issues getting my guns this season ...my only horrible rng was with midnight coupe....and maybe cantata ..everything else I have 😂
So in direct response to "is the pattern seen on older weapons just a product of the weighting being introduced with The Final Shape" you can actually see "popular trait rolls" on lightgg and I looked at the Festival of the Lost grenade launcher Acosmic, which obviously you would only be able to farm once a year, and there is a very similar pattern to what skarrow had shown for the more current weapons
As a note for people not that familiar with programming and coding. Coding something to be truly random is actually quite hard, and it tends to fluctuate between some values more frequently than a truly randomizer.
A lifetime ago back in college we had a lab assignment to create a RNG program. I just had it calculate the next digit of PI prof thought it was hilarious, me not so much when he gave me a C...
My dad took a coding class in college where the final project was to make a lottery game and the way it was coded you could do something at a specific time and always win.
Saying "Coding something to be truly random is actually quite hard" might be one of the biggest understatements in computer science. Generally computer generated random number are refereed to as "pseudo random numbers" for good reason.
@@Iosifavichin fact, *using software alone,* it’s actually impossible to code for true randomness. Specific hardware is required to achieve that, and I don’t think game devs are going to be spending money on hardware just to code for true randomness.
This situation felt apparent since the release of the Brave weapons a few months ago. It was easy to pick-up on drop patterns due to the frequency at which we were getting weapons (~23 per run + the brave tokens at the chest + weapon attunement). Many players who were seriously farming since Onslaught's initial release can confidently say they've received well over a thousand Brave weapon drops by now. Made no sense, RNG or not, to receive multiples of the exact same roll that you had already sharded before even seeing a 2/5 of a weapon with the perks you were chasing. Feels like Weightgate was an, "I F'ing KNEW IT!" -moment for many players.
honestly i could see it being a thing since atleast witchqueen, with crafting being a thing people really started not caring about random rolls and there has been few bis weapons drop that aren't craftable and have a bad layout for people to notice, cold comfort for example had envious assassin right next to BnS and Explosive Light so if it existed back then people wouldn't have as much reason to look into it as it would have helped with the drops there.
So when this fix is rolled out and those 'silver lining' easier to aquire god rolls also become harder to get.... Man I cant wait for the whinging to start 😂
Right?! I guess people forgot that they hated being on equal footing and we will once again go back to "remember in Destiny 1 where it would take you 346 hours to get one god roll? I miss that."
If I remember correctly, either Bungie themselves or a (former) Bungie employee confirmed at some point that this appears to have been going on for maybe a year minimum, which is just absolutely insane to think about. My memory could be serving me wrong, but I believe that is correct
Regarding your point about the former Bungie engineer weighing in... they would actually have a HUGE incentive not to "whistleblow" about weighting code. In fact I'm surprised they even felt confident enough to speak up at all (probably fine though as it worked in Bungies's PR favour at the time). Non-disclosure regarding code & tech is worked into many game dev contracts pretty much as standard in order to protect studios. My contract has it, and I work at a much smaller studio of only a few hundred, and one that's independent and not beholden to any corporation like Sony as well mind you.
I'm definintely in both the 'this is accidental' and 'this is pretty recent' camps. For starters, if they wanted to weight things to draw out play time, we'd never benefit (and I can safely say that with Seasonal weapons I have benefited); but also, yeah, someone would have found this sooner if it had been going on a while. The only 'issue' is that crafting might have hidden this; who cares if the god roll is statistically too rare to be truly randon if you can craft it after 5 red borders (and this is not a dig at crafting; I'm hugely pro-that system). SO it could have been in the game for as long as crafting has, but I personally doubt it, because again, we'd probably have seen something in any of the dungeons released in/since WQ that revealed this trend.
I don't think it was intentional on Bungie's part but, it is important to remember that this probably hasn't been as noticeable for the past few years because of the existence of weapon crafting. There was not as much of a reason to question the rolls we were getting because we could just craft the roll we wanted eventually for most loot in the game. Because of this, it might have been a bug in the game for longer than we think.
I'd bet money this was intentional. You gotta quit giving Bungie the benefit of the doubt. How many shitty things are they gonna have to do before you realize? Lol
@@adb2506 and YOU need to realize not EVERYTHING that happens in destiny is intentional. Unless you actually have proof that it is, you should maybe at least focus on trying not to let bungie live rent free in your head.
@@CertifiedClownDetector It’s impossible to not be intentional. You’re either a dev at bungie or haven’t been manipulated in life yet. Clearly it’s a disgusting way to increase play time.
@@Benny_B0O0 okay, show the proof it is intentional then If it’s sooo obvious to see. Seems like you need to stop letting bungo do whatever they want inside your brain
A program can't be truly random, there will always be a patten no matter how obscure or well hidden it is. This was most likely an oversite from when they built it not anticipating the amount of new perks they would create later
All these years of getting bad drops and everyone just chalked it up to bad rng. Now we get this new stasis grenade launcher and everyone goes “waaaaittt a minute 🤨” 😂
Given the automatic weighting pattern, the only way that pattern would give equal and fair distribution to all perk combinations is if they had just 2 perks in each column. Which could be as far back if Forsaken, if not earlier.
I love how the d2 team has to ask the team if weighting has been added. And the way they word it makes it sound like weighting is an option but they don’t use it.
I know it was hard af one iron banner at one time I think it was during Witch Queen trying to get the god roll for an SMG with destabilizing rounds and another perk. It took me 2 iron banner rotations and I think about 22 versions of the gun to get the exact combination I was looking for. I don’t know if it was due to weight gating, but I know it took a hella long time.
Yeah my Iron Banner weapon that made me believe in weighted perks was the lethal abundance auto trying to get dynamic sway/tap, took me over 50 engrams
It’s absolutely been in the game since beyond light. 100% without a doubt. The numbers are “not as obvious” because all the shit has been deleted and the good roles have been saved. I bet if you went and farmed them in a solo subset it would track 100% the same for any content after beyond light
what makes that perk combo worth getting? im ngl I think I might have gotten it and infused it into something else thinking it wasnt worth holding onto. Is it just the orb generation part?
@@Levigumba I see. RIP my ignorance. Read your comment and hopped straight to DIM to see if I still had it. But theres always the 600 tries I have until I get outbreak to obtain it again
This might have been going on for a while, but there hasn't really been a reason to check up until now. It was such a specific scenario to turn this up and bungie wouldn't have really cared to look super deep at perk combo drops before
"Unless there are crazy people with a bunch of rolls for a single gun." That would be easy to check, just go rewatch Datto Vault cleaning, while there weren't a lot of cases of people having backstock on backstock of a single gun, there are some instances where people would have 5-10 minimum of a gun. Not sure if all of those are "dungeon" loot, but the logic should track either way for other content as well.
Soooo, it's a bit tough for me to buy that this wasn't intentional (or at least a known bug). The goal is to keep players engaged, and making desirable rolls harder to get seems like a good way to achieve that goal. That said, I'm actually willing to give Bungie some slack because this isn't consistent with all desirable rolls. Still, not a good look Bungie. Maybe those layoffs weren't such a great call?
I think the perk weighting started whenever deepsight was added to the game or when it was adjusted. I definitely think it happened before TFS and after WQ.
A couple things. The perk wrap around thing is an excellent demonstration of the results of modulus math that's often done as the final step in randomization to ensure you stay in the bounds you want. (It absolutely doesn't explain the poor randomization, though.) On the note of catching it earlier: we see the same issue with catching bugs. We players generate WAY more data than Bungie could ever hope to in they're own testing. While bugs can be sought out by testing edge cases or pushing limits, a lack of randomness really requires brute force checking with the kind of data Bungie couldn't generate on their own. I think they are very sincere in saying the players here have been monumentally helpful in the process of addressing this issue.
I had a spiked rounds, reverberation, BoS drop by randomly shooting a thrall. I ran countless amounts of tonics and salvation with nothing to drop. Absolutely wild
I think this has been going on for a while. It seems like at least GotD had the same issue. I saw someone point out that there are a ton of things that had to come together for this to be as noticeable as it was and lead to the in depth data that got gathered. For starters both crafting and double/triple perk rolls would’ve made this issue either not exist or would have prevented people from noticing. Additionally the way the bug works makes it so that the perks needed to be oriented in the API in such a way that made favorable perk combos less likely to drop.
As someone who's been hunting for a Envious Arsenal/BnS Bitter/Sweet the entire season when I've gotten a few god rolls of the other weapons simply by getting the off-chance rolls of them during the farm and remembering how I farmed for over 3 weeks for certain Recluse rolls with high cal during ITL, this is kind of gratifying that someone actually took the time to run the numbers.
I like the time line explanation. Well done. How many times have we seen hot fixes for things not dropping, or dropping too much. These things happen. Volume testing as they just had to do for this issue may not always be in scope for what seem like innocuous changes. Hopefully, there is a new test point being developed for this issue to be run on future releases.
Not really a new thing, an observant farmer would have noticed this already. I noticed when farming Mechabre and tracked it when I farmed Matador. Some perks drop together at much higher rates and others much lower. Masterworks seem to be weighted as well.
My galaxy brain conspiracy theory (Unprovable but fun to think about) - It was intentionally made this way way back in Forsaken when random rolls were added - Someone said "Hey it'd be great if we could make it so certain trait combos are harder to get!" - Fast forward 7 years later, that guy is no longer at Bungie. They just put perks in columns in whatever order because they think it's random - They've forgotten it was implemented like that, they discover it now, they fix it to be truly random and never speak of it to anyone I see shit like that happen all the time during development. People don't talk to each other, the reasons we decided on stuff are forgotten, and mistakes are made
Now that I think about it, this could have been a thing going back to at least Into the Light. I can't think of any other reason why it took me around, at minimum, 60 tries to get the Heal Clip + Incandescent roll for Luna's Howl.
when it comes to true rng in games, i joke a lot about how there's the desire sensor or whatever. but despite how little i know about programming and development, i DO know that spotify shuffle is not random at all. it's informed by an algorithm that favors some songs over others, so when you're like me and have a 4000 song playlist you've shuffled, you'll hear the same groups of songs over and over before you hear every song on that playlist. that's why i feel confident in saying this is not an intentional thing. learning that about spotify gave me a brief glimpse at how hard it is to code true randomness, and i may not know the nitty gritty details, i know enough to trust the people who are smarter than me when it comes to numbers. i cannot WAIT for a dev deep dive on this because i love learning about stuff that i don't fully understand.
Sure, but the conspiracy theory doesn’t make any sense when you look at what’s actually happening. If it was always the best rolls that were being suppressed then you could make the argument that they’re doing it to increase playtime, but with the pattern of weighting we can see in the data it’s just as likely to over-represent good rolls as it is to suppress them. Hanlon’s razor applies here, I think it’s much more likely to be a stupid error.
Like bungie said there are desirable perk combos that are much easier to get. Like the fusion fallout said and also bygones! These 2 god rolls are pretty easy to get so farm them now before they patch the weighting
This would explain why it took me over 155 copies of Luna's Howl that had heal clip + incandescent. Holy crud. I drove myself insane trying to get that before the drop of final shape.
I actually thought of a way to "solve" the issue. Make the dungeon weapons craftable BUT, to ensure that people are still going to grind a bit and replay the dungeons, make it so you have to complete a bounty or a quest, once (per character) a week and, at the end of the quest, you get a random dungeon's red border weapon. That way, you still gotta playthrough the dungeon multiple times, but you don't have to rely on RNG to get a god roll. Anyway, that's just a silly idea I had.
An important thing to see here is what the initial response from devs was and what that tells us about why they did not see the problem despite having access to so much more data than the community. They knew they did not put any mechanism in place to specify a weighting for individual perks, based on this they assumed, incorrectly as it has turned out, that there could be no weighting of combinations of perks. If each perk appears with equal frequency, they thought, there can be no weighting. Or perhaps it was even simpler: just "we can't put our fingers on the scales, so everything the community think is happening is just paranoia". Had they broken out the big kid maths, they would have seen that something was definitely rotten in Denmark. When people have become certain of a fact, they can easily discount any evidence that seems to challenge that fact. What happened here is not that the facts Bungie had were wrong, but that they did not fully think the issue through and realise that everything they knew to be true could still be true, and the perk **combinations** still skewed. As for the community, this is a case for Hanlon's Razor people.
My personal theory is that this is a bug that arose from 15 or so years of iterative spaghetti code and dev crust building up on the baseline of the Tigersprite engine.
If you check light ggs tool, you can see faded versions of the pattern in weapons as old as Lightfall, and if you really squint you can almost see it in Beyond Light
Like I've reiterated to every other Destiny content creator I follow: it took me 3 whole seasons and over 200 drops to get a Randy's Throwing Knife with Gutshot Straight and Kinetic Tremors. I've kept focusing it every chance I get, as the barrel and mag could be a lot better, but not even a second has dropped.
Something i noticed this morning that *might* indicate how long perk weighting has existed. In playlist weapons (with 12 perks per column), there is a distinct checkerboard pattern inside the ,\' shape. obviously our data gets weaker the farther back you go between survivorship bias and smaller sample size from outdated weapons that most people deleted, but this pattern appears faintly in borrowed time and crowd pleaser. The checkerboard pattern is VERY obvious for anonymous autumn, bygones, and wicked sister, as well as other recent playlist weapons. Again, emphasis on *might*, but this could indicate that the glitch has existed since beyond lights launch if not earlier. Aka, this bug is potentially upwards of 4 years old. Im no statistician, and don't really know how to perform a thorough analysis here, but I think this might be worth looking further into if anyone who actually knows what they are doing reads this.
I like how everybody is freaking out about envious arsenal/ bait and switch is so hard to get, when you can just get it on the vanguard GL that came out this season. You do not want envious arsenal/ bait and switch on the chill inhibitor, you want cascade/bait and switch, since it cant be obtained on other guns. Just reset vanguard a few times on a bonus vanguard points week, then you get three perks per column, making getting that roll significantly easier.
Thanks for breaking this down. I follow a number of popular D2 content creators, and I've been holding off listening to their breakdowns to hear yours. I hope you had a great honeymoon! -UrbanRangerOriginal
I feel like if anything, someone wrote an algorithm to maintain certain kind of drops to preserve space in the code and also save time on the delivery of certain weapons and activities given all the layoffs and the demanding schedule of content releases.
I have to think this has been going on since at least into the light. Almost everyone one the my 30 shiny rolls are identical. I remember being discouraged that my group and I had such terrible luck with rolls, but it makes far more sense now.
I think this has been going on for a very very long time, I remember years ago where I'd get the same exact roll 3+ times in a row on some weapons, and distincly the very first week Shayura's Wrath ever came out, I got my flawless, and focussed 2 more adpet SMG's all 3 had Ele Capacitor + Free-hand grip.
i think the answer to "was this intentional" is actually rather easy to find out, since we have access to the api & weapon roll order pulls or supposedly pulls from the api, just get a few hundred weapons across the seasons & compare their perks, if the overall perk order doesn't match up, then we have our answer & it would be yes
also to be fair, the former bungie dev chick, didn't know what she was talking about, not only did the community prove that via the rng calculation method bungie uses, that perks could be intentionally weighted but also if she was as invested and knowledgeable about the code of destiny 2 as she claims, than she WOULD have 100% known about the rng calculation issues; so yeah she lied to cover up or she is the most "get through the day" type dev that has ever existed
We have always known that some rolls have been more rare than other and weapons with large perk pools made farming those rolls impractical to impossible. I guess i just assumed that there was roll weighting all along, based on my own experience and the experience of those around me. It was very common to hear people complain about a weapon dropping with a garbage perk regularly. It was a community meme for certain weapons to drop with certain bad perks on a regular basis and to me that screamed "roll weighting". Perk weighting made sense in the idea that some perk combos are better than others so making them rare might be beneficial for the "loot chase". I'm just not shocked or outraged over this, i thought ti was always happening the fact that it was unintentional is just funny to me.
They're gonna say they can't fix it because it would require a complete restructure of the perk pool system and everything. Bottom line its purposefully put into the game to increase the time it takes to get something you want.
The only reason I can think of to not bring up a perk weighting feature would be some kind of NDA, but even if that were the case the devs would more likely keep quiet when stuff came up and if directly asked simply say they cannot comment because of legal stuff or whatever.
First computers algorithm can’t be random, unless they add a secondary algorithm with it , and second bungie probably wondering how the hell someone notice this before the game designer did ?
I'm going to repost a theory I saw from a programmer who commented on another Weightgate video (Skarrow's video I think) and I can't wait to see if the dude got it on the money when Bungie posts the what-in-the-hell-happened article. It has to do with how the random number generator gets seeds. See, computers are deterministic. They can't be truly random. So they take a seed, roll it through an algorithm, and boom, you have a pseudo-random number. A common seed for RNGs is system clock, taken down to a long decimal. If you poll the system clock for a seed too quickly, the end results will be very similar. On a pick a number between 1 and 7 kinda thing that you'd do with Destiny 2 perks, you can easily get 1 and 1 or 2 and 2, 1 and 2 and so on. Now, my personal theory that adds onto this. It's that this code has existed in this form since random rolls were added into D2 in Forsaken, but Bungie's server infrastructure just wasn't fast enough to poll the seed with the needed frequency to cause the problem. The RNG wasn't fast enough to generate connected numbers. But over the years as they update and upgrade servers, getting faster and faster, well, now it's fast enough to cause a problem.
Here's my example, crux determination, the ark rocket launcher, in total, I have gotten over fifty of them, and I know this, because i've deleted stacks of 20+ twice now out of my vault at the end of the season. Only one has had reconstruction. Small example, but was a definitive for me
1. Congrats on the marriage/honey-moon, and sincerest Mozel Tov to the both of you!! 2. Yeah, it's kinda sketch that Bungie would firstly deny that this stuff is happening, without further investigating such a specific/detailed accusation, when they've "let-go" of so many coders/developers who originally wrote the engine for their Random Perk Rolling on their weapons. 3. Many, like thousands, of players creaped back into the community to speak-up about this debacle because of how long its been going on. And only in the past year or so now, have we been keen to track and observce such occurrences with our weapons and their perks. To summarize, shit's been wack for a long-time, probably since Forsaken tbh, but more notably around Lightfall, and only seriously observed/analyzed in the past 10-days now. Yet Bungie opted for ye old "Nuh-uh, YOU'RE what's wrong with the game!!" before attempting to investigate, before they responded. NOW it's all gratitude and apologies, for the community who did their job for them.... off the payroll....
If you've with randomization in computer science it becomes pretty easy to see this was an oversight and not intentional. I've created simulations in C and had a tough time getting things to be truly random. Not all methods and libraries are the same, and some start to show cracks when you try to deploy them at scale; and getting repeated choices and "checkerboard" effects on matrices is exactly what it starts to look like in some cases. I don't personally know how their engine works and how they're doing randomization (and it would surprise me if they're doing anything as low level and error prone as I've seen), but it does add up. As for why it wasn't caught, that's a legitimate concern and it's on them. A decent data scientist would catch it, but who knows if they have any dedicated data people for that kind of thing. To be honest this feels like an indirect consequence of laying of some engineers that may have caught this or not have allowed it to be an issue to begin with,
10:24 - That is explained by a confidentiality agreement, they gave her X amount of money when they fired her so she wouldn't say anything against Bungie.
@@ArdenCF I don't know how it is in the USA, but in Argentina you can make an agreement in which when you are fired from a job they give you X amount of money and you have no right to cause problems in the future.
@@4R4EL I see. Here, most confidentiality agreements mean you couldn't speak positively on their behalf either. The agreement limits you from speaking about any parts of the organization with which you've signed said agreement. Basically puts you on mute with anything relevant to them.
But you also have to remember Bungie said Xur is random but then announced they were adding specific weapons to Xur’s pool🤔. The ex-employee probably didn’t know it was possible
And here I was sounding tinfoil hat crazy to my buddies about the obscurity of Destiny RNG will give the exact same perks for collums 3 and 4 when focusing engrams too fast.
Fallout coming back to destiny drama like he's Donald Glover holding pizza in community
best reference ever
🎶 Troy and Abed in the moooorning 🎶
The fact we’ve dubbed it “Weightgate” is pretty hilarious. Nixon truly did have the legacy he wanted
Honestly the CIA is great at coming up with names for their operations.
Honestly it should be "Perkgate" because Weightgate sounds like some people are discriminating people's Weight, either skinny or fat.
@@stevem.9340 that also sounds hilarious
I mean, it’s kind of funny. It’s not “beyond hilarious” though. It just makes sense.
That is used for everything. People called a story about Tom Brady’s (foot)balls “Deflategate”
People called the story about the Saints “Bounteygate”
People called the other Patriots thing “Spygate”
That is just football.
People call the video game stuff “Gamergate”
Adding “Gate” to the end of something is the NPC default.
If only Datto didn't make Pure toss almost all of his Y2 Mindbender's. That would be such a source to start the odds off with.
To explain the issue in Layman's Terms: It's not that any specific perk is more common than any others in a particular slot. Instead, there seems to be an issue with the RNG where the perk that is selected to go in Column 3 influences which perk gets selected for Column 4.
Yup! Has to do with how Computers simulate randomness. If not properly worked around or fixed it can lead to similar numbers when in succession, random roll 1 perk then the other, and that's why the closeness of a perk matters
This is honestly really interesting! Computer logic is pretty remarkable sometimes.
@@johnnyhall9154 I can imagine it wouldn't be that hard for this issue to go unnoticed, too. Like, if you're looking at just 3rd column perks, each of the options is showing up an equal amount of time. Same if you're just looking at 4th column perks. You only get this issue if you're looking at which specific combinations of perks are showing up.
@@lightningstrike9876 Yup, only know about it because I ran into a similar issue when making barcodes at my old job.
To be clear this theory is only based on perk combinations people kept not based on drops overall, and it's not consistent with every weapon.
PEOPLE READ: Its not about the perks themselves, just their position on the perk lists. Its an algorhythm problem, since computers cannot be random.
Yes it's the position of the perks and computer RNG isn't perfect, but it is usually good enough to not have intentional outliers like this. This isn't simply a case of "computers can never be 100% random.
@@sQuaTsiFieD I'd say it is, just that the problem is man made, part of the flawed nature of the algo they went with.
It took the bloating of perk pools and a powercrept combo people farmed en masse for people to notice that there was a pattern in the pseudo-random.
So you're saying Bungie personally ruined my rolls and that I should act like a rabid animal in response?
As the like, 4th highest completion of forges in destiny, I can 100% confirm I encountered this in black armory.
It's always wholesome when the devs and community can come together to figure out the spaghetti code inside of the game. The Destiny community is one of the only communties I know that sifts through as much data as it does when it comes to things like this.
Rage at not getting your god roll after days of farming does that to people
It’s not wholesome, and it’s not spaghetti code. This is extremely manipulative practice to up play time with more grind. Actually disgusting
@Benny_B0O0 sure man
@@Fiishe You’re so ignorant it’s sad
There's a reply from Jared Schnelle under the Destiny2Team tweet showing how Bungie might've missed this for so long. Basically, even if the combos were proximity based, the individual perks themselves would show a "normal distribution." So its likely Bungie just never thought to sort their data by perk combos, only individual ones.
Minor nitpick, but you mean uniform distribution. A normal distribution would be weighted towards the center.
That makes a lot of sense. No one would think of putting pairs together. When everyone things RNG, it’s "how often would x show up." Not " how often would x show up when given y."
@@Jardynq sorry, was just quoting from the tweet itself.
So probably for years meaning everyone was right when they were feeling getting some of the gods rolls was more difficult than it should of been
How tf can a whole team of professionals miss that? That really brings into question their ability to run a game
Fallout out there having an amazing time and no drama and meanwhile D2 community is literally on fire again.
I like to imagine the Bungie Devs who made the RNG system back in Forsaken did this on purpose and just never told anyone, so all the new people at Bungie are also finding out about this along with us.
that would have been the ULTIMATE prank to play on literal millions of people...
That's kinda what happened to ikelos SMG a while ago wasn't it. It specifically had dsr like recoil patterning built in
IDK. Since the data is in the API it seems wild to think that not one single employee wouldn't have ever noticed that certain trait combos drop much more than others. Also strange that the traits appear in a given column in different order depending on the weapon, like they're manually arranged per weapon.
Oh im sure just like they didn’t know xp was being throttled back in year one they even said “xp throttling isn’t real yall are just crazy now give us more money” yet upon further investigation we found out that not only was xp being throttled they were actively lying to the community seems kinda familiar to that situation huh of course bungie isn’t gonna come out and say “yes we knew about it” because thatd definitely be the last nail in the coffin for bungie so they play dumb eventually fix it probably won’t compensate the community for all the time we wasted over the years and everyone will eventually move on until they’re caught doing another scummy thing in a few months where the cycle will begin a new
@@Mr_Ruhlthey play the game but they don't grind like us ... I have no issues getting my guns this season ...my only horrible rng was with midnight coupe....and maybe cantata ..everything else I have 😂
So in direct response to "is the pattern seen on older weapons just a product of the weighting being introduced with The Final Shape" you can actually see "popular trait rolls" on lightgg and I looked at the Festival of the Lost grenade launcher Acosmic, which obviously you would only be able to farm once a year, and there is a very similar pattern to what skarrow had shown for the more current weapons
As a note for people not that familiar with programming and coding. Coding something to be truly random is actually quite hard, and it tends to fluctuate between some values more frequently than a truly randomizer.
A lifetime ago back in college we had a lab assignment to create a RNG program. I just had it calculate the next digit of PI prof thought it was hilarious, me not so much when he gave me a C...
My dad took a coding class in college where the final project was to make a lottery game and the way it was coded you could do something at a specific time and always win.
Saying "Coding something to be truly random is actually quite hard" might be one of the biggest understatements in computer science. Generally computer generated random number are refereed to as "pseudo random numbers" for good reason.
@@Iosifavichin fact, *using software alone,* it’s actually impossible to code for true randomness. Specific hardware is required to achieve that, and I don’t think game devs are going to be spending money on hardware just to code for true randomness.
This situation felt apparent since the release of the Brave weapons a few months ago. It was easy to pick-up on drop patterns due to the frequency at which we were getting weapons (~23 per run + the brave tokens at the chest + weapon attunement). Many players who were seriously farming since Onslaught's initial release can confidently say they've received well over a thousand Brave weapon drops by now. Made no sense, RNG or not, to receive multiples of the exact same roll that you had already sharded before even seeing a 2/5 of a weapon with the perks you were chasing. Feels like Weightgate was an, "I F'ing KNEW IT!" -moment for many players.
honestly i could see it being a thing since atleast witchqueen, with crafting being a thing people really started not caring about random rolls and there has been few bis weapons drop that aren't craftable and have a bad layout for people to notice, cold comfort for example had envious assassin right next to BnS and Explosive Light so if it existed back then people wouldn't have as much reason to look into it as it would have helped with the drops there.
So when this fix is rolled out and those 'silver lining' easier to aquire god rolls also become harder to get....
Man I cant wait for the whinging to start 😂
Right?! I guess people forgot that they hated being on equal footing and we will once again go back to "remember in Destiny 1 where it would take you 346 hours to get one god roll? I miss that."
If I remember correctly, either Bungie themselves or a (former) Bungie employee confirmed at some point that this appears to have been going on for maybe a year minimum, which is just absolutely insane to think about. My memory could be serving me wrong, but I believe that is correct
Regarding your point about the former Bungie engineer weighing in... they would actually have a HUGE incentive not to "whistleblow" about weighting code. In fact I'm surprised they even felt confident enough to speak up at all (probably fine though as it worked in Bungies's PR favour at the time). Non-disclosure regarding code & tech is worked into many game dev contracts pretty much as standard in order to protect studios. My contract has it, and I work at a much smaller studio of only a few hundred, and one that's independent and not beholden to any corporation like Sony as well mind you.
I'm definintely in both the 'this is accidental' and 'this is pretty recent' camps. For starters, if they wanted to weight things to draw out play time, we'd never benefit (and I can safely say that with Seasonal weapons I have benefited); but also, yeah, someone would have found this sooner if it had been going on a while. The only 'issue' is that crafting might have hidden this; who cares if the god roll is statistically too rare to be truly randon if you can craft it after 5 red borders (and this is not a dig at crafting; I'm hugely pro-that system). SO it could have been in the game for as long as crafting has, but I personally doubt it, because again, we'd probably have seen something in any of the dungeons released in/since WQ that revealed this trend.
I don't think it was intentional on Bungie's part but, it is important to remember that this probably hasn't been as noticeable for the past few years because of the existence of weapon crafting. There was not as much of a reason to question the rolls we were getting because we could just craft the roll we wanted eventually for most loot in the game. Because of this, it might have been a bug in the game for longer than we think.
I'd bet money this was intentional. You gotta quit giving Bungie the benefit of the doubt. How many shitty things are they gonna have to do before you realize? Lol
@@adb2506 and YOU need to realize not EVERYTHING that happens in destiny is intentional. Unless you actually have proof that it is, you should maybe at least focus on trying not to let bungie live rent free in your head.
@@adb2506 the destiny community and technological illiteracy, name a more iconic duo
@@CertifiedClownDetector It’s impossible to not be intentional. You’re either a dev at bungie or haven’t been manipulated in life yet. Clearly it’s a disgusting way to increase play time.
@@Benny_B0O0 okay, show the proof it is intentional then If it’s sooo obvious to see. Seems like you need to stop letting bungo do whatever they want inside your brain
A program can't be truly random, there will always be a patten no matter how obscure or well hidden it is. This was most likely an oversite from when they built it not anticipating the amount of new perks they would create later
Or to program to roll the dice two times like in DnD games a.e Nevewinter Nights where each time system rolling dice.
All these years of getting bad drops and everyone just chalked it up to bad rng. Now we get this new stasis grenade launcher and everyone goes “waaaaittt a minute 🤨” 😂
You know what fixes a lot of these weight issues? Red Borders.
Given the automatic weighting pattern, the only way that pattern would give equal and fair distribution to all perk combinations is if they had just 2 perks in each column. Which could be as far back if Forsaken, if not earlier.
we didn't have random rolled weapons before Forsaken, so couldn't be earlier
Bring back crafting for EVERY weapon. No excuse now.
“Held together by duct tape and dreams” lmaooo
What makes sense to me is that with how the weapons were before with static rolls it makes sense the random roll would pull the closest two perks.
Lol the Mute City theme from F-Zero X is a banger, and fits well there.
I love how the d2 team has to ask the team if weighting has been added. And the way they word it makes it sound like weighting is an option but they don’t use it.
I know it was hard af one iron banner at one time I think it was during Witch Queen trying to get the god roll for an SMG with destabilizing rounds and another perk. It took me 2 iron banner rotations and I think about 22 versions of the gun to get the exact combination I was looking for. I don’t know if it was due to weight gating, but I know it took a hella long time.
PTSD Tusk of the Boar grind thanks for the reminder lol. Think it took me 3 resets and 80+ engrams.
Yeah my Iron Banner weapon that made me believe in weighted perks was the lethal abundance auto trying to get dynamic sway/tap, took me over 50 engrams
Donald glover walking into a room ablaze with pizza in his hand meme. Hope it was a cool honeymoon fallout! Welcome back bro
definitely explains how I get drops of time and again with the same poor perks combos I don't like and different barrel.
It’s absolutely been in the game since beyond light. 100% without a doubt. The numbers are “not as obvious” because all the shit has been deleted and the good roles have been saved. I bet if you went and farmed them in a solo subset it would track 100% the same for any content after beyond light
I need to farm for that demo/attrition orbs baton. Only one perk away
lol I gave up on that and just took the first attrition orbs one I could get 😅
what makes that perk combo worth getting? im ngl I think I might have gotten it and infused it into something else thinking it wasnt worth holding onto. Is it just the orb generation part?
@@soft_serve0534 attrition orbs is crazy good on that weapon type, and demo is just a good perk
@@Levigumba I see. RIP my ignorance. Read your comment and hopped straight to DIM to see if I still had it. But theres always the 600 tries I have until I get outbreak to obtain it again
@@Levigumba what are the best mags and barrels for this thing?
If this was recent, it probably undiscovered because Bungie guttet their quality control team.
This might have been going on for a while, but there hasn't really been a reason to check up until now. It was such a specific scenario to turn this up and bungie wouldn't have really cared to look super deep at perk combo drops before
Im betting its been an issue forever but we'll never know from older content cause of the sheer number of roles since then
Random Number Generators aren't literally random.
"Unless there are crazy people with a bunch of rolls for a single gun."
That would be easy to check, just go rewatch Datto Vault cleaning, while there weren't a lot of cases of people having backstock on backstock of a single gun, there are some instances where people would have 5-10 minimum of a gun.
Not sure if all of those are "dungeon" loot, but the logic should track either way for other content as well.
Soooo, it's a bit tough for me to buy that this wasn't intentional (or at least a known bug). The goal is to keep players engaged, and making desirable rolls harder to get seems like a good way to achieve that goal. That said, I'm actually willing to give Bungie some slack because this isn't consistent with all desirable rolls. Still, not a good look Bungie. Maybe those layoffs weren't such a great call?
I think the perk weighting started whenever deepsight was added to the game or when it was adjusted. I definitely think it happened before TFS and after WQ.
A couple things.
The perk wrap around thing is an excellent demonstration of the results of modulus math that's often done as the final step in randomization to ensure you stay in the bounds you want. (It absolutely doesn't explain the poor randomization, though.)
On the note of catching it earlier: we see the same issue with catching bugs. We players generate WAY more data than Bungie could ever hope to in they're own testing. While bugs can be sought out by testing edge cases or pushing limits, a lack of randomness really requires brute force checking with the kind of data Bungie couldn't generate on their own. I think they are very sincere in saying the players here have been monumentally helpful in the process of addressing this issue.
I had a spiked rounds, reverberation, BoS drop by randomly shooting a thrall. I ran countless amounts of tonics and salvation with nothing to drop. Absolutely wild
I think this has been going on for a while. It seems like at least GotD had the same issue. I saw someone point out that there are a ton of things that had to come together for this to be as noticeable as it was and lead to the in depth data that got gathered.
For starters both crafting and double/triple perk rolls would’ve made this issue either not exist or would have prevented people from noticing. Additionally the way the bug works makes it so that the perks needed to be oriented in the API in such a way that made favorable perk combos less likely to drop.
As someone who's been hunting for a Envious Arsenal/BnS Bitter/Sweet the entire season when I've gotten a few god rolls of the other weapons simply by getting the off-chance rolls of them during the farm and remembering how I farmed for over 3 weeks for certain Recluse rolls with high cal during ITL, this is kind of gratifying that someone actually took the time to run the numbers.
I like the time line explanation. Well done.
How many times have we seen hot fixes for things not dropping, or dropping too much. These things happen. Volume testing as they just had to do for this issue may not always be in scope for what seem like innocuous changes. Hopefully, there is a new test point being developed for this issue to be run on future releases.
Not really a new thing, an observant farmer would have noticed this already. I noticed when farming Mechabre and tracked it when I farmed Matador. Some perks drop together at much higher rates and others much lower. Masterworks seem to be weighted as well.
My galaxy brain conspiracy theory (Unprovable but fun to think about)
- It was intentionally made this way way back in Forsaken when random rolls were added
- Someone said "Hey it'd be great if we could make it so certain trait combos are harder to get!"
- Fast forward 7 years later, that guy is no longer at Bungie. They just put perks in columns in whatever order because they think it's random
- They've forgotten it was implemented like that, they discover it now, they fix it to be truly random and never speak of it to anyone
I see shit like that happen all the time during development. People don't talk to each other, the reasons we decided on stuff are forgotten, and mistakes are made
9:10 Quick, someone check PureChill's vault!
Now that I think about it, this could have been a thing going back to at least Into the Light. I can't think of any other reason why it took me around, at minimum, 60 tries to get the Heal Clip + Incandescent roll for Luna's Howl.
This explains why I’ve acquired 200+ roses and haven’t seen slideshot+explosive payload a single time
when it comes to true rng in games, i joke a lot about how there's the desire sensor or whatever. but despite how little i know about programming and development, i DO know that spotify shuffle is not random at all. it's informed by an algorithm that favors some songs over others, so when you're like me and have a 4000 song playlist you've shuffled, you'll hear the same groups of songs over and over before you hear every song on that playlist.
that's why i feel confident in saying this is not an intentional thing. learning that about spotify gave me a brief glimpse at how hard it is to code true randomness, and i may not know the nitty gritty details, i know enough to trust the people who are smarter than me when it comes to numbers.
i cannot WAIT for a dev deep dive on this because i love learning about stuff that i don't fully understand.
Coming from the company that throttled xp a few years ago. Big Sketch.
I forgot about that 😂
Sure, but the conspiracy theory doesn’t make any sense when you look at what’s actually happening. If it was always the best rolls that were being suppressed then you could make the argument that they’re doing it to increase playtime, but with the pattern of weighting we can see in the data it’s just as likely to over-represent good rolls as it is to suppress them.
Hanlon’s razor applies here, I think it’s much more likely to be a stupid error.
Like bungie said there are desirable perk combos that are much easier to get. Like the fusion fallout said and also bygones! These 2 god rolls are pretty easy to get so farm them now before they patch the weighting
I've had Vesper's runs where I've got 5 pieces of fucking armor and zero weapons. Weight gate THAT 😂😂😂😭😭😭🤮🤮🤮
When you are hunting pinnacles though… they are like, how does 12 energy weapons sound?
This would explain why it took me over 155 copies of Luna's Howl that had heal clip + incandescent. Holy crud. I drove myself insane trying to get that before the drop of final shape.
I actually thought of a way to "solve" the issue. Make the dungeon weapons craftable BUT, to ensure that people are still going to grind a bit and replay the dungeons, make it so you have to complete a bounty or a quest, once (per character) a week and, at the end of the quest, you get a random dungeon's red border weapon.
That way, you still gotta playthrough the dungeon multiple times, but you don't have to rely on RNG to get a god roll.
Anyway, that's just a silly idea I had.
An important thing to see here is what the initial response from devs was and what that tells us about why they did not see the problem despite having access to so much more data than the community. They knew they did not put any mechanism in place to specify a weighting for individual perks, based on this they assumed, incorrectly as it has turned out, that there could be no weighting of combinations of perks. If each perk appears with equal frequency, they thought, there can be no weighting. Or perhaps it was even simpler: just "we can't put our fingers on the scales, so everything the community think is happening is just paranoia". Had they broken out the big kid maths, they would have seen that something was definitely rotten in Denmark.
When people have become certain of a fact, they can easily discount any evidence that seems to challenge that fact. What happened here is not that the facts Bungie had were wrong, but that they did not fully think the issue through and realise that everything they knew to be true could still be true, and the perk **combinations** still skewed.
As for the community, this is a case for Hanlon's Razor people.
A hanlon's razor reference in the wild? My lucky day!
My personal theory is that this is a bug that arose from 15 or so years of iterative spaghetti code and dev crust building up on the baseline of the Tigersprite engine.
If you check light ggs tool, you can see faded versions of the pattern in weapons as old as Lightfall, and if you really squint you can almost see it in Beyond Light
Like I've reiterated to every other Destiny content creator I follow: it took me 3 whole seasons and over 200 drops to get a Randy's Throwing Knife with Gutshot Straight and Kinetic Tremors. I've kept focusing it every chance I get, as the barrel and mag could be a lot better, but not even a second has dropped.
Something i noticed this morning that *might* indicate how long perk weighting has existed.
In playlist weapons (with 12 perks per column), there is a distinct checkerboard pattern inside the ,\' shape. obviously our data gets weaker the farther back you go between survivorship bias and smaller sample size from outdated weapons that most people deleted, but this pattern appears faintly in borrowed time and crowd pleaser. The checkerboard pattern is VERY obvious for anonymous autumn, bygones, and wicked sister, as well as other recent playlist weapons.
Again, emphasis on *might*, but this could indicate that the glitch has existed since beyond lights launch if not earlier. Aka, this bug is potentially upwards of 4 years old.
Im no statistician, and don't really know how to perform a thorough analysis here, but I think this might be worth looking further into if anyone who actually knows what they are doing reads this.
I like how everybody is freaking out about envious arsenal/ bait and switch is so hard to get, when you can just get it on the vanguard GL that came out this season. You do not want envious arsenal/ bait and switch on the chill inhibitor, you want cascade/bait and switch, since it cant be obtained on other guns. Just reset vanguard a few times on a bonus vanguard points week, then you get three perks per column, making getting that roll significantly easier.
Thanks for breaking this down. I follow a number of popular D2 content creators, and I've been holding off listening to their breakdowns to hear yours. I hope you had a great honeymoon! -UrbanRangerOriginal
checked a few non-reissued forsaken-era guns up until shadowkeep and there's potential for a pattern
Give us our seasonal craftables back
I feel like if anything, someone wrote an algorithm to maintain certain kind of drops to preserve space in the code and also save time on the delivery of certain weapons and activities given all the layoffs and the demanding schedule of content releases.
I have to think this has been going on since at least into the light. Almost everyone one the my 30 shiny rolls are identical. I remember being discouraged that my group and I had such terrible luck with rolls, but it makes far more sense now.
I think this has been going on for a very very long time, I remember years ago where I'd get the same exact roll 3+ times in a row on some weapons, and distincly the very first week Shayura's Wrath ever came out, I got my flawless, and focussed 2 more adpet SMG's all 3 had Ele Capacitor + Free-hand grip.
i think the answer to "was this intentional" is actually rather easy to find out, since we have access to the api & weapon roll order pulls or supposedly pulls from the api, just get a few hundred weapons across the seasons & compare their perks, if the overall perk order doesn't match up, then we have our answer & it would be yes
also to be fair, the former bungie dev chick, didn't know what she was talking about, not only did the community prove that via the rng calculation method bungie uses, that perks could be intentionally weighted but also if she was as invested and knowledgeable about the code of destiny 2 as she claims, than she WOULD have 100% known about the rng calculation issues; so yeah she lied to cover up or she is the most "get through the day" type dev that has ever existed
We have always known that some rolls have been more rare than other and weapons with large perk pools made farming those rolls impractical to impossible. I guess i just assumed that there was roll weighting all along, based on my own experience and the experience of those around me. It was very common to hear people complain about a weapon dropping with a garbage perk regularly. It was a community meme for certain weapons to drop with certain bad perks on a regular basis and to me that screamed "roll weighting". Perk weighting made sense in the idea that some perk combos are better than others so making them rare might be beneficial for the "loot chase". I'm just not shocked or outraged over this, i thought ti was always happening the fact that it was unintentional is just funny to me.
Respect for Dikembe Mutombo on the thumbnail, RIP to that legend.
bro if this has been going on for a few expansions by now then me never getting firmly planted firefly on stars in shadow is just atrocious luck 😭
They're gonna say they can't fix it because it would require a complete restructure of the perk pool system and everything. Bottom line its purposefully put into the game to increase the time it takes to get something you want.
No i think it's been day dot as that code won't have really changed between patches all that much. We just never noticed and it took bad luck.
This issue isnt just recently. Its a issue for several years already. Why people figuring this out just now is kinda insane.
I don’t know if this is some next level grinding obsession. Or a breakthrough in whatever field studies “random”
Fallout’s the type of guy who goes prismatic and doesn’t even throw his grenade 😅
I'm not confident Bungie would be tuned into their game enough to notice this trend before the community
RIP Dikembe Mutombo (guy in thumbnail) Welcome back to the newlyweds
Any good programmer knows it isn't very hard to randomize a given number. A good 'disgruntled' programmer knows how to undo this too
The only reason I can think of to not bring up a perk weighting feature would be some kind of NDA, but even if that were the case the devs would more likely keep quiet when stuff came up and if directly asked simply say they cannot comment because of legal stuff or whatever.
R.i.P mutumbo
Big up to the f zero music in the background
And people wonder why we don't want crafting to go away
I mean, we COULD go to Europa and farm the HVTs, Empire Hunts, and Lost Sectors and accumulate the data
I spent 40 tonics farming the pvp god roll for Exuviae and now it explains why it took so long to get it.
First computers algorithm can’t be random, unless they add a secondary algorithm with it , and second bungie probably wondering how the hell someone notice this before the game designer did ?
Now I know why I've never gotten an explosive payload/frenzy albruna d from gambit
I'm going to repost a theory I saw from a programmer who commented on another Weightgate video (Skarrow's video I think) and I can't wait to see if the dude got it on the money when Bungie posts the what-in-the-hell-happened article.
It has to do with how the random number generator gets seeds. See, computers are deterministic. They can't be truly random. So they take a seed, roll it through an algorithm, and boom, you have a pseudo-random number. A common seed for RNGs is system clock, taken down to a long decimal. If you poll the system clock for a seed too quickly, the end results will be very similar. On a pick a number between 1 and 7 kinda thing that you'd do with Destiny 2 perks, you can easily get 1 and 1 or 2 and 2, 1 and 2 and so on.
Now, my personal theory that adds onto this. It's that this code has existed in this form since random rolls were added into D2 in Forsaken, but Bungie's server infrastructure just wasn't fast enough to poll the seed with the needed frequency to cause the problem. The RNG wasn't fast enough to generate connected numbers. But over the years as they update and upgrade servers, getting faster and faster, well, now it's fast enough to cause a problem.
Here's my example, crux determination, the ark rocket launcher, in total, I have gotten over fifty of them, and I know this, because i've deleted stacks of 20+ twice now out of my vault at the end of the season. Only one has had reconstruction. Small example, but was a definitive for me
The thing is I’m not a “hoarder” but if I like an off meta gun I keep 5-10 rolls and an uncomfortable number of stuff from WQ follow this pattern
Not a recent thing, Ive easily had over 150+ drops of crux termination and never once got recon+explosive light
Not me who dropped it after just a couple of runs while my clanmates at 500+ first encounter runs don't
1. Congrats on the marriage/honey-moon, and sincerest Mozel Tov to the both of you!!
2. Yeah, it's kinda sketch that Bungie would firstly deny that this stuff is happening, without further investigating such a specific/detailed accusation, when they've "let-go" of so many coders/developers who originally wrote the engine for their Random Perk Rolling on their weapons.
3. Many, like thousands, of players creaped back into the community to speak-up about this debacle because of how long its been going on. And only in the past year or so now, have we been keen to track and observce such occurrences with our weapons and their perks.
To summarize, shit's been wack for a long-time, probably since Forsaken tbh, but more notably around Lightfall, and only seriously observed/analyzed in the past 10-days now. Yet Bungie opted for ye old "Nuh-uh, YOU'RE what's wrong with the game!!" before attempting to investigate, before they responded. NOW it's all gratitude and apologies, for the community who did their job for them.... off the payroll....
If you've with randomization in computer science it becomes pretty easy to see this was an oversight and not intentional. I've created simulations in C and had a tough time getting things to be truly random. Not all methods and libraries are the same, and some start to show cracks when you try to deploy them at scale; and getting repeated choices and "checkerboard" effects on matrices is exactly what it starts to look like in some cases. I don't personally know how their engine works and how they're doing randomization (and it would surprise me if they're doing anything as low level and error prone as I've seen), but it does add up. As for why it wasn't caught, that's a legitimate concern and it's on them. A decent data scientist would catch it, but who knows if they have any dedicated data people for that kind of thing. To be honest this feels like an indirect consequence of laying of some engineers that may have caught this or not have allowed it to be an issue to begin with,
10:24 - That is explained by a confidentiality agreement, they gave her X amount of money when they fired her so she wouldn't say anything against Bungie.
not how confidentiality agreements work. She has no motivation/reason to speak on their behalf.
@@ArdenCF I don't know how it is in the USA, but in Argentina you can make an agreement in which when you are fired from a job they give you X amount of money and you have no right to cause problems in the future.
@@4R4EL I see. Here, most confidentiality agreements mean you couldn't speak positively on their behalf either. The agreement limits you from speaking about any parts of the organization with which you've signed said agreement. Basically puts you on mute with anything relevant to them.
But you also have to remember Bungie said Xur is random but then announced they were adding specific weapons to Xur’s pool🤔. The ex-employee probably didn’t know it was possible
I had to reset Zavala 4 times and spin the wheel with over 100 engrams for a wicked sister w/ envious+bait.
And here I was sounding tinfoil hat crazy to my buddies about the obscurity of Destiny RNG will give the exact same perks for collums 3 and 4 when focusing engrams too fast.
Skarrow is actually a chemist. According to what he said in that vid.
It just feels like The Traveler took a big dump on my heart 😢
Danger Zone/BaitNswitch is the only Baitnswitch roll i have (the most popular combo) I will say it's nice not blowing yourself up with danger zone