It's just wrong to say a knife is poor quality because it's made in China. China can produce to any quality standard you like, but unfortunately most companies who get things made in China want it to be as cheap as possible, so that's exactly what they get.
Whether some Chinese knives are quality or not is irrelevant to me. I simply don’t want to support China’s economy which is based on the exploitation of very cheap labor and stolen technologies. It is extremely hard to avoid buying Chinese goods for everyday household goods and electronics, but when it comes to the knife hobby there are plenty of options. If I’m missing out on some really nice Chinese built knives in my collection, so be it. I still have a great collection of knives made in the USA, Italy, Germany, Japan, and the UK. And there are still plenty more where they came from.
If American manufacturers don't want me to like Chinese made knives, they need to give me a reason to keep my business here, like ZT does. Love my country, but if I have, say, $300 for one knife, I'm not going to buy an inferior quality product just because it has USA stamped on it.
Absolutely. Country of Origin is not a reliable indicator of quality. I still prefer American products for logistical and economic reasons, and I'll even pay a premium for them. But regardless of where something was produced, I'll buy it if it meet's my needs and won't buy it if it doesn't.
The reality is we (as in USA) depend heavily on Chinese/Asian manufacturing for electronics, clothing and industrial fabrication. Why do people selectively target knives as a product deserving of protectionism? As a country, we've already shown our willingness to abrogate manufacturing to the Pacific Rim. Lots of people don't like that, but there it is.
Great video & interesting to hear New Zealand mentioned there. I gather we even have a few knives made down here by a few of those hand-made quality nuts!
some very good points made in this video. More quality knives in the market regardless of where they're made is just better for everyone involved. The customer, the various makers and the market in general.
Could you start leaving link's to the knives you review I love a lot of knives you review but don't no where to purchase them thanks for the great onfo
Great take Nick, it's always refreshing to see this kind of global perspective in the knife community. It has always frustrated me when you see comments on forums or videos that bash knives simply based on country of origin. One need look no further than a company such as Buck knives for sub par production knives that have been banking on the "Made in America" label on the package for quite some time. The better the quality of knives coming in from overseas, the higher quality of knives we are going to receive as consumers from domestic producers. Those producers that don't adapt and improve to match their overseas competitors deserve to disappear. Keep up the good work Nick!
I carry my Kizer every day... Its Chinese and damn proud of itself (So proud they stuck a gold "Made in China" sticker on the blade that took 10mins to remove completely), great knife though.
I always go American when possible, and it's usually better, but every now and then there is an exception to the rule, Reate is just that. Reate uses excellent materials and machines thier product better than most of my other knives. They also inovate and seek constant improvement. you can tell David Deng loves what he does and has a passion for it, this is why Reate has become my favorite brand in my 40 year old collection.
I totally agree with pretty much everything you said. For some reason I just can't get passed spending over 200 for a Chinese produced knife buy a Chinese company I do it all the time with spyderco but can't when it comes to others I don't no if it's because I trust spyderco and not a newer Chinese company or what but I have some very odd hang up. Great vid!
id love to see your take on artisan cutlery's line of knives. i have my share of us made knives and love them but i just picked up a osprey and holy smoke! talk about bang for the buck! giant slab of d2 for a cleaver style blade and carbon fiber (probably peel ply )handles w/ a ball bearing pivot at price point under sixty green ones
I know of only one internet retailer who inspects knives before shipping and only one who has a practice of inspecting flashlights before shipping. Currently, there is one Red Chinese knife maker who produces quality knives for six different US "name brand" knife distributors. This wasn't always the situation. I wanted to buy a vertical milling machine years ago. I called the manufacturer. Oh, well, it was now going to have them built in Red China but don't worry, it would be sending an inspector to RC once in a while. Well, I didn't buy because of the fact that the company was not going to have an experienced quality control inspector stationed in the RC until the locals got it right. A knife company in Oregon was bought by investors interested in trading on the "name brand name", gave quality control short shrift and contracted for manufacturing in Asia without doing quality control. I think everyone knows the name of that company - and I haven't bought another knife with the "name brand" for 30 years. The answers to quality control are: 1. read the amazon reviews by identified customers only; 2. wade through the youtube videos on a particular knife beyond the usual dumb unpacking videos, 3. read the blogs on knives and ignore the unpacking reviews; 4. read all negative reviews very carefully.
Please give us a lecture on office setting knives, (examples and edc gems) and what you would command for an industrial/construction setting (Examples, Corrosion resistant and heavy duty knives) =]
Thank you Nick for being truly fair. We can always count on you for the good, the bad, and the ugly. And I'm not just saying that because I'm on pain pills and drinking wine. ;)
Yes and I think it is very healthy to have discussions about this and I hope manufacturers read the comments on your vids. They need to remember that without the end user they will shrivel up!
Hey Nick, just disassembled the We 601 and it's amazing the scales are milled out its only just over 4 oz. It has multi row ceramic ball bearings/detent and has stainless steel washers. It also has a ramp for the detent ball on the blade tang and the back spacer has posts. Lastly the fit and finish is great but the 8.66 in knife might be a little big for your taste just wanted to let you know about it.
Most of the cheapo knives are actually made of at least 420 or 440 stainless steel, which has been used in razor blades and cutlery ever since stainless was first invented in the 1920's. And occasionally even the cheap knives come out with good construction and some innovative design features (even if half of them are knock-offs or 'improvements'). So if the Quality Control is halfway decent, IMHO it really is possible nowadays to get a pretty good value in a useful everyday knife and for very little 'dinero'.... 'knife snobs' notwithstanding.
Hey Nick. I'm quite late to this vid, I'm watching as a clean out my sebenza and manix 2. Just wanted to say that you're spot on when you say every country can produce both crap and jems alike, it does seem like ya just gotta wade through the crap to find the gold at the bottom sometimes. Also you gave New Zealand a shout out, you should come visit sometime, it's a beautiful country.
I know this is a three year old video but have you looked into Artisan Cutlery. Every knife they make has three different price points of the same knife using different materials. There cheaper knives are made with d2 steel and g10 handles where as there higher end is all made with titanium handles and either s35vn or m390 blades. The higher end ranges from around 170 to 230 ballparking where as the lower end is about 50 to 70 depending on if you get g10 or carbon fiber. Sorry for the long comment.
Look for an Integral knife from Reate in September. I think it will be called the "Future". It will be interesting to compare it to the Nirvana production knife and who knows, perhaps even to the Nirvana custom. Based on the quality of my two Reates, I may pull the trigger on the Reate integral.
I agree!! I have said it so many times that Kizer is eating Spyderco for lunch! And many others. While Kizer has knives above 200 bucks, that is their high end of the spectrum. I think their most expensive knife is below 250 buck and a boatload under 200 with very good materials and great fit and finish. G10 with S35vn Kizer knives are a super value. My only ding is that some of their knives can be on the heavy side. But as Nutn says, "I'll take the weight if I get something great in return," and I feel you sure do with many Kizer knives.
Iv owened kizer, reate and custom knife factory. Although kizer is diversified in their designs they seem to be on the cookie cutter side as far as the looks of the knives. The scales lack something.
Hey Nick how long have u been doing knife reviews on youtube and when or what was ur very 1st knife that u actually knew u were going 2 be set back some what and still went ahead and made the purchase but found out that the purchase was better than u anticipated, just a question, I hope u have urself a wonderful rest of ur day.
Hey Nick, great discussion. I am sure you have heard of a new company that has been out for a couple of years called "Artisan Cutlery" They have some pretty amazing folders of different price points, designs, materials. I have the Artisan Cutlery "Tradition" Liner Lock Knive Carbon Fiber, and it is amazing for the price. Would you consider doing a review of there Brand, Please. Thanks, Paul
My biggest gripe with Chinese products in general is the lack of trust in Chinese goods because of counterfeits. I just bought two WE knives, but I bought them from a reputable American dealer. And WE knives are made with American steel, so I still can have the patriotic warm and fuzzy, but I'll still never eat Chinese imported food...they can keep their MSG and plastic rice.
X-Bow Bruv, MSG is not only not harmful but present in a lot of foods you eat. Heck, the Italian kitchen gets a lot of its flavour from MSG found in tomatoes, certain old cheeses and mushrooms. Please do some research before preaching fire and brimstone about something you have eaten many, MANY times.
zero 4U I think that social media has a bad side and that is judging people based on their outlook or our view of what their outlook is . I think you're comments were totally fine. The problem starts when the piling on and then someone makes an
China was the first to apply chromium to steel sword and knife in the world, thousands of years ahead of Europe. When the longest sword made in Europe was 22 inches or below, China had already been making 36 inch sword for centuries. Crappy Chinese goods were made upon the request of foreign importers. They placed orders for items within a certain price range and you get what you pay for, fair and square. only an idiot would complain why a Ford focus doesnt have the same quality of a Mercedes.
So looking back on this im curious how you're currently feeling about this subject? I love my techno 2 lol Spydercos boys in Taiwan know what their doing.
The cost of making a high-quality knife in China is much lower in China than the US. I think Chinese knives are over-priced, but I wonder how American manufacturers would fare if Chinese manufacturers sold their knives at similar margins. High-end production and mid-tech manufacturers would probably see a hit to their bottom lines. Nonetheless, it seems as if the American market has been absolutely flooded with these knives. The wide margins created by selling Chinese-made knives at American-made prices make it very profitable to do so, but it's as if a new knife is released as soon as they can reprogram the mill. I have 3-4, my first being a District 9 tanto, but now I'm kind of burned out on the whole "hey-look-China-is-making-some-amazing-knives" thing. They all just seem like the same recipe with a different topping, and many are blatant design rip-offs of other knives.
I love good knives, let them be from the States, Italian, German, French... and if one is awesome, like the Reate Wave, I would never make my love depend on where was it done. There is a lot of "hate" to chinese products, which does not exist against South African, Brazilian or European ones, making it basic nonsense nationalism. Moreover, in most of the cases, taking into account materials, fit and finishing, etc. American made knives are extremely overpriced. It is clear manpower is cheaper outta there, but I would not only say a knife like the Wave competes in price and quality with American made knives... Maybe the olamic 247 is the only one nearing its quality in same price band... nobody else gives you M390 and such a desingn, fit and finishing, etc. in $375. And that also merits my admiration.
+Schizo_ phrenic +Silver Seto I was talking good quality knives... not politics. Whatever the political system a knife is made, if it is good quality, I do appreciate its merit. That was my only message to you. In other words, we (Europe/US) are using and abusing those Chinese advantages on a daily basis, I cannot see why the knives industry should differ... Are you sure every single screw and bearing of the "American made" pieces are truly made in the US? I am not, honest.
+Schizo_ phrenic Why? It is called healthy competition... Specifically... Why if we do it worse quality and much more expensive? btw: Reate for example, does not sell in Aliexpress, does not use child labour, not even cheap manpower... but highly qualified CNC engineers... those that in US would not dare to move a finger for less than $200000 salary... making any of our products worse quality, or highly overpriced... and usually both.
@4:00 Like Emerson for instance. My first expensive knife was a $200 Mini Cqc 15. Upon opening the box, my first words were, "what the f*** is this?" Horrible fit and finish, crooked grind lines, lock stick so bad I needed a screw driver to pry it loose, not to mention the liner would engage in random places. I searched online to see if other people had similar experiences. Turns out that according to Mr. Emerson, fit and finish is not the focus. Their priority is to make reliable tools. I called bullshit on that one. People can buy reliable tools for $30 if they wanted to. People pay the extra money for quality. It's ludacris to think you can sell a jacked up knife with just your name and "made in USA". He also says the reason his knives are chisel ground is because it's easier to sharpen in the field. I think the real reason is that his fit and finish is so garbage they probably can't make symmetrical bevels if they tried. Ok. End rant.
Ask yourself if you would pass on to your son or grandson a "made in China" knife when you pass away. Also ask how collectable your made in China knife will be in the future.
damn i wish I was into knives when the Nirvana was released. sucks they aren't making more and now the nirvana is selling for some bs number like 1500+
I agree, Chinese companies make quality knives equivalent to USA products for much less $. Times are different today than the 1950's when Chinese made lighters sucked...
Chinese made knives are great values and I have several of them. I also like to support American knife makers, when it's merited,, such as Great Eastern Cutlery in Titusville, Pennsylvania.
funny thing is how chinese can actually make the knife for like 30-120$ with all titanium, carbon fiber, s35vn... and the ones who selling them asks for 200+... and the leftover parts and machinery back at china being used to make knifes during "night shifts" and sold as counterfeits...
The real issue with Chinese manufacturers is that its harder to regulate copies of American manufacturers or custom makers designs. This has been an issue from time to time. The more the Chinese knife industry grows, the more Fura and Ganzo knives will start popping up selling knock offs of American products and in this internet age where most knives are purchase online, it is becoming harder for American companies to protect their IP from Chinese knock off retailers. I think the main reason to be against supporting Chinese manufacturing competition is the simple fact that their patents are upheld by the law here but our patents are not upheld by the law in China. Basically its a one way street if we invent something and patent it internationally they can copy it outright and sell in their markets without legal recourse but if they invent something and patent it internationally they can sue us if we try and copy it because we will uphold their patent rights. Kizer, Bestech, Rike, ect. are all doing a strategy that allows them to gain entry into the knife market and garner respect as equals but what is to stop them from starting to sell their knives online and drop shipping them directly from China like Gear Best does. Once they have knife collectors respect they dont need American distributors to promote them anymore, they can do all of that themselves online and ship direct from China. They can then copy any American custom makers design and sell it for fraction of the cost with that quality reputation they garnered and completely ruin the custom design market. I'm not saying I thin they will do this, I am just trying to point out that they have all of the leverage in this system and I find it odd that they are playing nice and doing things the right way for now when they could be blowing out their knives for fraction of the price and totally overwhelm the American knife market.
It's the competition that drives the industry forward. Without competition we will not have different gems to buy and Nick will not have knifes to complain about. If American company wants to survive against Chinese, they better up their game in terms of quality fit and finish. Cough Benchmade cough cough
agreed . but the ones I hate are not the quality ones demonstrated here but the *attack of the clone* sabenza spyderco SAK knock off that sadly look like the real thing but far from being what that are not.. that said a Chinese company making a quality product...and not a clone I'm all for it great video and very fair
I own usa made knives and Taiwanese made knives. I prefer usa knives because most of china made knives are based off of usa knife makers designs. Originality and quality goes to usa but china is almost on par for quality with no originality. Low cost and high quality shouldn't be the main weight to justify a perfect knife which blinds a lot of knife users collectors today. Just buy knives that make you happy regardless of cost quality and where its made.
Am I the only person that finds $375 hard to swallow for a folding knife well actually almost any knife. Don’t get me wrong there are plenty I would like to have that are very expensive but I feel there is a point of diminishing return at least for me. I was actually hoping this video would discuss more of the budget range Chinese knives. In particular the ones that claim to have d2 steel or m390 or s35v if I could a knife with a good steel for cheap I would be in 7th heaven even if it was a little ugly or heavy haha
Benchmade's going to find themselves in a world of hurt, yeah. Value Conscious customers will go to Chinese quality knives, and US-Conscious customers will go to companies worth a damn in the states (e.g. ZT, American Spydercos).
As long as you stick to the names that have proved themselves, WE, Kizer, Reate, etc. I think you're getting a good product. On the other hand, companies like Ganzo or other names you've never heard of need to be passed on. I tried giving Ganzo a chance but 3 out of 4 had screws that stripped or turned and didn't back out. Ordered a clone, not a counterfeit, of a Sinkevich design for $144 that was a hot mess. It was given a glowing review on a channel that shall remain nameless that prompted me to buy it. Thankfully the site I ordered it from is processing a refund. Stick with the names you know and have a track record of putting out quality. I'll never buy a budget or no name Chinese knife again, lesson learned.
need a history lesson but boker ( I know 2nd biker comment lol) I believe is a German company but knives are made in China? not sure but hoping in youre future review, I'm putting it on u Nick lol, of a boker knife u will elaborate!!!!!
zero 4U I was trying to say inappropriate comment, then there's the trolls . I made a comment saying that the apostles view bordered on racist but, I didn't want to imply it. well that was maybe not a good choice by me? Like I said though, I do watch apostle videos but , he does put me off a little. In reality I really don't know the guy so I choose to give him some slack and try to enjoy what he has to offer . which isn't always my cup of tea. Anyway, good thread .
I think China plants have improved their metal treating, and are now using much more modern steels. Screws on early Kizer's were soft, but now seem stronger. Finish can be very good. Truth is they pay workers not much, and don't have health coverage, and I am not so sure they have a social security system, (excepting their children)...etc, etc, etc...And many of our so called staple companies like Boker buy Chinese...as does my fav company Spydie, so................ shit!!!
The only problem in your logic is that your money may support a system that the ordinary Joe is effed by a system that workers live in substandard conditions. I don't mind American companies competing with other companies with at least half way decent living quality for the workers. It is unfair for american companies to compete with companies who only pay their employee few cents an hour.
You have a great point. But what he is saying is that US companies must make a better product. Most consumers are not even loyal to one company let alone USA made. It must be a value to the consumer. That is the main driving force. PERIOD! Why should someone buy USA made if it is not better and is more money. Look at Walmart? Business is booming! As far as wages in USA, with inflation, wages have been incredibly stagnant in 30 yrs! Yes 30! So people need to worry about their finances and what they can afford and put food on the table. They are not going to jeopardize that to buy American because competition with China. Think about it. As far as unfair, I do not see Spyderco (Who have products made all over) and Benchmade and ZT hurting. Look at the prices of Benchmade! A joke!
+Jesus Garcia I agree 100% there. Companies hiring 12 year olds, or running indebted servants, need to go the heck away. But that's not a China problem so much as a factory problem. I've never heard any accusations that Reates are made by middle schoolers. And, well, if they are, those are some damned talented middle schoolers.
International non-governmental organizations (NGOs), such as Human Rights in China and Amnesty International, and citizens, lawyers, and dissidents inside the country, state that the authorities in mainland China regularly sanction or organize fundamental human rights abuses. The citizens in Taiwan can change their government through elections and are held to enjoy most basic rights.
Good points. But a $350 knife made in China is not competing with a $350 knife made in America. American workers have to make a higher wage because of the higher standard of living costs. A Chinese worker making $50 week saves the owners overhead that U.S. companies can't achieve. I don't mind Chinese knives if they are well made and don't say "Made in China" on them. (I don't like being reminded) AND I won't pay more than $100 for a Chinese knife. We can't avoid Chinese products all around us, but when I can "choose" I lean away from China. It's Workers have "suicide nets" outside large factories for when they jump out the window, they can be put BACK on the assembly line in one piece. (Google it).
I think that the counterfeit Chinese knives are not the fault of kizer, reate ect. These company have done what some may say is impossible in a relatively short period of time. the quality of these knives is just incredible in alot of cases.
unless you are testing the metal there is no way you can tell if they are telling the truth about the steel that they are using ii have a Chinese knife ttat says its elmax............its softer then h1.
I just know benchmade will service you for a lifetime. But maybe so does WE. Is it me or do all these Chinese high quality production knives look like they’re manufactured by the same company? WE, Rike, Reate, HEAdesign. Reminds me of Kershaw/ZT relationship.
"Quality should be divorced from nationality"
Amen.
It's just wrong to say a knife is poor quality because it's made in China. China can produce to any quality standard you like, but unfortunately most companies who get things made in China want it to be as cheap as possible, so that's exactly what they get.
well said
well said
Whether some Chinese knives are quality or not is irrelevant to me. I simply don’t want to support China’s economy which is based on the exploitation of very cheap labor and stolen technologies.
It is extremely hard to avoid buying Chinese goods for everyday household goods and electronics, but when it comes to the knife hobby there are plenty of options.
If I’m missing out on some really nice Chinese built knives in my collection, so be it. I still have a great collection of knives made in the USA, Italy, Germany, Japan, and the UK. And there are still plenty more where they came from.
@@drameday well said man it's not about quality I buy quality knives from taiwan all day but not china
If American manufacturers don't want me to like Chinese made knives, they need to give me a reason to keep my business here, like ZT does. Love my country, but if I have, say, $300 for one knife, I'm not going to buy an inferior quality product just because it has USA stamped on it.
Xavier ironically, it was ZT that led to my dissatisfaction and lack of desire for American made knives lol!
@@profd65 Lmao, you just seem to have it out for the Chinese my guy. Seems more like a you problem
Well done Nick, it's the quality that matters at the end of the day.
Absolutely. Country of Origin is not a reliable indicator of quality. I still prefer American products for logistical and economic reasons, and I'll even pay a premium for them. But regardless of where something was produced, I'll buy it if it meet's my needs and won't buy it if it doesn't.
At the end of the day it's my bed that really matters.
Very true
The reality is we (as in USA) depend heavily on Chinese/Asian manufacturing for electronics, clothing and industrial fabrication. Why do people selectively target knives as a product deserving of protectionism? As a country, we've already shown our willingness to abrogate manufacturing to the Pacific Rim. Lots of people don't like that, but there it is.
+Mitchell Delmar Good point!
Great video & interesting to hear New Zealand mentioned there. I gather we even have a few knives made down here by a few of those hand-made quality nuts!
Thank you Sir ! Well said . I agree 100%. I really enjoy your videos. I appreciate your honesty.
Very well said. I agree with all points you mentioned.
some very good points made in this video. More quality knives in the market regardless of where they're made is just better for everyone involved. The customer, the various makers and the market in general.
Could you start leaving link's to the knives you review I love a lot of knives you review but don't no where to purchase them thanks for the great onfo
You are a realistic person, Nick. You have my utmost respect.
Great take on the matter Nick as always!
I cant get into chinese made knives at all. There are plenty of nice knives made right here in the USA and at competitive prices
Nice vid Nick so true and I'm a ZT guy and just got my first we knife and reate and they r great I love the look of the wave
Completly agree nick and keep the reviews coming.
Great take Nick, it's always refreshing to see this kind of global perspective in the knife community. It has always frustrated me when you see comments on forums or videos that bash knives simply based on country of origin. One need look no further than a company such as Buck knives for sub par production knives that have been banking on the "Made in America" label on the package for quite some time. The better the quality of knives coming in from overseas, the higher quality of knives we are going to receive as consumers from domestic producers. Those producers that don't adapt and improve to match their overseas competitors deserve to disappear. Keep up the good work Nick!
I carry my Kizer every day... Its Chinese and damn proud of itself (So proud they stuck a gold "Made in China" sticker on the blade that took 10mins to remove completely), great knife though.
I always go American when possible, and it's usually better, but every now and then there is an exception to the rule, Reate is just that. Reate uses excellent materials and machines thier product better than most of my other knives. They also inovate and seek constant improvement. you can tell David Deng loves what he does and has a passion for it, this is why Reate has become my favorite brand in my 40 year old collection.
I totally agree with pretty much everything you said. For some reason I just can't get passed spending over 200 for a Chinese produced knife buy a Chinese company I do it all the time with spyderco but can't when it comes to others I don't no if it's because I trust spyderco and not a newer Chinese company or what but I have some very odd hang up. Great vid!
I love all these new knives from Kizer / WeKnives / TwoSun / Reate / Rike etc - fantastic.
id love to see your take on artisan cutlery's line of knives.
i have my share of us made knives and love them but i just picked up a osprey and holy smoke! talk about bang for the buck! giant slab of d2 for a cleaver style blade and carbon fiber (probably peel ply )handles w/ a ball bearing pivot at price point under sixty green ones
I know of only one internet retailer who inspects knives before shipping and only one who has a practice of inspecting flashlights before shipping. Currently, there is one Red Chinese knife maker who produces quality knives for six different US "name brand" knife distributors. This wasn't always the situation. I wanted to buy a vertical milling machine years ago. I called the manufacturer. Oh, well, it was now going to have them built in Red China but don't worry, it would be sending an inspector to RC once in a while. Well, I didn't buy because of the fact that the company was not going to have an experienced quality control inspector stationed in the RC until the locals got it right. A knife company in Oregon was bought by investors interested in trading on the "name brand name", gave quality control short shrift and contracted for manufacturing in Asia without doing quality control. I think everyone knows the name of that company - and I haven't bought another knife with the "name brand" for 30 years. The answers to quality control are: 1. read the amazon reviews by identified customers only; 2. wade through the youtube videos on a particular knife beyond the usual dumb unpacking videos, 3. read the blogs on knives and ignore the unpacking reviews; 4. read all negative reviews very carefully.
I agree with this with the exception of Amazon reviews.
I consider Amazon reviews to be of entertainment value only.
gotcha thanks bud!!! I'm a fan of the boker just seem to be my style
I've got the Reate Wave, and absolutely love it. The TLC put into making it really shows.
So true, i have one as well.. great edc blade!
+Peter Galione Yep. They've done something pretty impressive with the Wave.
Please give us a lecture on office setting knives, (examples and edc gems) and what you would command for an industrial/construction setting (Examples, Corrosion resistant and heavy duty knives) =]
Thank you Nick for being truly fair. We can always count on you for the good, the bad, and the ugly. And I'm not just saying that because I'm on pain pills and drinking wine. ;)
Can you see how you struck a nerve with this one, Nick? Love it! You need more vids like this to get lively discussion.
+zero 4U It's a big debate, with some polarizing voices around there. I was a bit scared to wade in, but my viewers are gems.
Yes and I think it is very healthy to have discussions about this and I hope manufacturers read the comments on your vids. They need to remember that without the end user they will shrivel up!
Will you ever do a review on the Reate Wave? That is one beautiful piece of work
You're going to love September 10th.
Hey Nick, just disassembled the We 601 and it's amazing the scales are milled out its only just over 4 oz. It has multi row ceramic ball bearings/detent and has stainless steel washers. It also has a ramp for the detent ball on the blade tang and the back spacer has posts. Lastly the fit and finish is great but the 8.66 in knife might be a little big for your taste just wanted to let you know about it.
+Bryce Walts Yeah, We is on my radar!
Most of the cheapo knives are actually made of at least 420 or 440 stainless steel, which has been used in razor blades and cutlery ever since stainless was first invented in the 1920's. And occasionally even the cheap knives come out with good construction and some innovative design features (even if half of them are knock-offs or 'improvements'). So if the Quality Control is halfway decent, IMHO it really is possible nowadays to get a pretty good value in a useful everyday knife and for very little 'dinero'.... 'knife snobs' notwithstanding.
yeah man!
Heading out for some Kung Pao chicken now...
Well said.
Hey Nick. I'm quite late to this vid, I'm watching as a clean out my sebenza and manix 2.
Just wanted to say that you're spot on when you say every country can produce both crap and jems alike, it does seem like ya just gotta wade through the crap to find the gold at the bottom sometimes.
Also you gave New Zealand a shout out, you should come visit sometime, it's a beautiful country.
I know this is a three year old video but have you looked into Artisan Cutlery. Every knife they make has three different price points of the same knife using different materials. There cheaper knives are made with d2 steel and g10 handles where as there higher end is all made with titanium handles and either s35vn or m390 blades. The higher end ranges from around 170 to 230 ballparking where as the lower end is about 50 to 70 depending on if you get g10 or carbon fiber. Sorry for the long comment.
That reatte looks so good
What knife is that @ 4:35..? I couldn't make out what you said.
Olamic Cutlery Wayfarer 247!
Look for an Integral knife from Reate in September. I think it will be called the "Future". It will be interesting to compare it to the Nirvana production knife and who knows, perhaps even to the Nirvana custom. Based on the quality of my two Reates, I may pull the trigger on the Reate integral.
+Kenneth Gross Skelton just reviewed it. And I've actually got a line on a loaner from a buddy when the pre-order lands! :D
I agree!! I have said it so many times that Kizer is eating Spyderco for lunch! And many others. While Kizer has knives above 200 bucks, that is their high end of the spectrum. I think their most expensive knife is below 250 buck and a boatload under 200 with very good materials and great fit and finish. G10 with S35vn Kizer knives are a super value. My only ding is that some of their knives can be on the heavy side. But as Nutn says, "I'll take the weight if I get something great in return," and I feel you sure do with many Kizer knives.
Iv owened kizer, reate and custom knife factory. Although kizer is diversified in their designs they seem to be on the cookie cutter side as far as the looks of the knives. The scales lack something.
Question for an Ask The Nick: What are your thoughts on stropping? Do you strop, why or why not? Thanks for another vid.
+Daniel Kompolt Good question!
When can we expect to see the review on the Ontario carter prime?
+FishFind3000 Around August 23rd!
Hey Nick how long have u been doing knife reviews on youtube and when or what was ur very 1st knife that u actually knew u were going 2 be set back some what and still went ahead and made the purchase but found out that the purchase was better than u anticipated, just a question, I hope u have urself a wonderful rest of ur day.
Hey Nick, great discussion. I am sure you have heard of a new company that has been out for a couple of years called "Artisan Cutlery"
They have some pretty amazing folders of different price points, designs, materials. I have the Artisan Cutlery "Tradition" Liner Lock Knive Carbon Fiber, and it is amazing for the price. Would you consider doing a review of there Brand, Please. Thanks, Paul
A lot of the times I'd rather buy items made in the USA to keep my money in the USA.
My biggest gripe with Chinese products in general is the lack of trust in Chinese goods because of counterfeits. I just bought two WE knives, but I bought them from a reputable American dealer. And WE knives are made with American steel, so I still can have the patriotic warm and fuzzy, but I'll still never eat Chinese imported food...they can keep their MSG and plastic rice.
X-Bow Bruv, MSG is not only not harmful but present in a lot of foods you eat. Heck, the Italian kitchen gets a lot of its flavour from MSG found in tomatoes, certain old cheeses and mushrooms. Please do some research before preaching fire and brimstone about something you have eaten many, MANY times.
zero 4U I think that social media has a bad side and that is judging people based on their outlook or our view of what their outlook is . I think you're comments were totally fine. The problem starts when the piling on and then someone makes an
I know u didn't hit them all I'm just not sure about boker if it's a euro company? are they built in Japan etc? just was wondering if u knew?
+Scott Grossman Boker is mostly made in China, but it's a German brand
China was the first to apply chromium to steel sword and knife in the world, thousands of years ahead of Europe. When the longest sword made in Europe was 22 inches or below, China had already been making 36 inch sword for centuries. Crappy Chinese goods were made upon the request of foreign importers. They placed orders for items within a certain price range and you get what you pay for, fair and square. only an idiot would complain why a Ford focus doesnt have the same quality of a Mercedes.
So looking back on this im curious how you're currently feeling about this subject?
I love my techno 2 lol Spydercos boys in Taiwan know what their doing.
I agree with you . But if I have 300 bucks I'm going with a USA company. Benchmade, one example, has fantastic customer service.
The cost of making a high-quality knife in China is much lower in China than the US. I think Chinese knives are over-priced, but I wonder how American manufacturers would fare if Chinese manufacturers sold their knives at similar margins. High-end production and mid-tech manufacturers would probably see a hit to their bottom lines.
Nonetheless, it seems as if the American market has been absolutely flooded with these knives. The wide margins created by selling Chinese-made knives at American-made prices make it very profitable to do so, but it's as if a new knife is released as soon as they can reprogram the mill. I have 3-4, my first being a District 9 tanto, but now I'm kind of burned out on the whole "hey-look-China-is-making-some-amazing-knives" thing. They all just seem like the same recipe with a different topping, and many are blatant design rip-offs of other knives.
what are these knives for? how come there are so many knives videos on youtube?
+taiwan tungus Cutting open boxes, envelopes, etc
Chinese design has been great in the latest 5 years, id even say that they have a similar style to Japanese designs.
Thank you for your honest opinion Nick, and you actually pronounced my name the right way!
+Haochen Niu Holy crap it's a miracle! Glad you enjoyed!
I love good knives, let them be from the States, Italian, German, French... and if one is awesome, like the Reate Wave, I would never make my love depend on where was it done.
There is a lot of "hate" to chinese products, which does not exist against South African, Brazilian or European ones, making it basic nonsense nationalism.
Moreover, in most of the cases, taking into account materials, fit and finishing, etc. American made knives are extremely overpriced. It is clear manpower is cheaper outta there, but I would not only say a knife like the Wave competes in price and quality with American made knives... Maybe the olamic 247 is the only one nearing its quality in same price band... nobody else gives you M390 and such a desingn, fit and finishing, etc. in $375. And that also merits my admiration.
South Korea is not communist, remember the Korean War?
+Silver Seto pretty sure I said north Korea but if I said south was a mistake
+Schizo_ phrenic +Silver Seto I was talking good quality knives... not politics. Whatever the political system a knife is made, if it is good quality, I do appreciate its merit. That was my only message to you. In other words, we (Europe/US) are using and abusing those Chinese advantages on a daily basis, I cannot see why the knives industry should differ... Are you sure every single screw and bearing of the "American made" pieces are truly made in the US? I am not, honest.
+Andrés Moreno not saying they aren't but the point is more knives screws,bearings,handles,blades should be made in the U.S.A
+Schizo_ phrenic Why? It is called healthy competition... Specifically... Why if we do it worse quality and much more expensive? btw: Reate for example, does not sell in Aliexpress, does not use child labour, not even cheap manpower... but highly qualified CNC engineers... those that in US would not dare to move a finger for less than $200000 salary... making any of our products worse quality, or highly overpriced... and usually both.
@4:00 Like Emerson for instance. My first expensive knife was a $200 Mini Cqc 15. Upon opening the box, my first words were, "what the f*** is this?" Horrible fit and finish, crooked grind lines, lock stick so bad I needed a screw driver to pry it loose, not to mention the liner would engage in random places. I searched online to see if other people had similar experiences. Turns out that according to Mr. Emerson, fit and finish is not the focus. Their priority is to make reliable tools. I called bullshit on that one. People can buy reliable tools for $30 if they wanted to. People pay the extra money for quality. It's ludacris to think you can sell a jacked up knife with just your name and "made in USA". He also says the reason his knives are chisel ground is because it's easier to sharpen in the field. I think the real reason is that his fit and finish is so garbage they probably can't make symmetrical bevels if they tried. Ok. End rant.
Yes I saw that video. I am carrying my Hoback kwaiback, am I a mall ninja ? lol
What's your take on Rikeknife?
Damn, I forgot to mention them here. I Rike some of their stuff very much.
Ask yourself if you would pass on to your son or grandson a "made in China" knife when you pass away. Also ask how collectable your made in China knife will be in the future.
damn i wish I was into knives when the Nirvana was released. sucks they aren't making more and now the nirvana is selling for some bs number like 1500+
I agree, Chinese companies make quality knives equivalent to USA products for much less $. Times are different today than the 1950's when Chinese made lighters sucked...
28 quid for my chinese D2, titanium, bearing, fall-shutty!
Re-aught, RE-8, Re-at-eh? How do YOU pronounce this company?
+Brad Avery Ray-Ott. But then again, I'm not very Reative
GANZO! they pretty good
Chinese made knives are great values and I have several of them. I also like to support American knife makers, when it's merited,, such as Great Eastern Cutlery in Titusville, Pennsylvania.
funny thing is how chinese can actually make the knife for like 30-120$ with all titanium, carbon fiber, s35vn... and the ones who selling them asks for 200+... and the leftover parts and machinery back at china being used to make knifes during "night shifts" and sold as counterfeits...
The real issue with Chinese manufacturers is that its harder to regulate copies of American manufacturers or custom makers designs. This has been an issue from time to time. The more the Chinese knife industry grows, the more Fura and Ganzo knives will start popping up selling knock offs of American products and in this internet age where most knives are purchase online, it is becoming harder for American companies to protect their IP from Chinese knock off retailers. I think the main reason to be against supporting Chinese manufacturing competition is the simple fact that their patents are upheld by the law here but our patents are not upheld by the law in China. Basically its a one way street if we invent something and patent it internationally they can copy it outright and sell in their markets without legal recourse but if they invent something and patent it internationally they can sue us if we try and copy it because we will uphold their patent rights.
Kizer, Bestech, Rike, ect. are all doing a strategy that allows them to gain entry into the knife market and garner respect as equals but what is to stop them from starting to sell their knives online and drop shipping them directly from China like Gear Best does. Once they have knife collectors respect they dont need American distributors to promote them anymore, they can do all of that themselves online and ship direct from China. They can then copy any American custom makers design and sell it for fraction of the cost with that quality reputation they garnered and completely ruin the custom design market. I'm not saying I thin they will do this, I am just trying to point out that they have all of the leverage in this system and I find it odd that they are playing nice and doing things the right way for now when they could be blowing out their knives for fraction of the price and totally overwhelm the American knife market.
id give my left arm for that monster hunter!!!
It's the competition that drives the industry forward. Without competition we will not have different gems to buy and Nick will not have knifes to complain about.
If American company wants to survive against Chinese, they better up their game in terms of quality fit and finish.
Cough Benchmade cough cough
They make excellent food though
Most spyderco dolicas are made in usa
So what does the Nick drive?
+Timothy Kennedy A Toyota. Lowest cost of ownership in my experience, leaves more cash for EDC gear.
aww yeah that z-hunter coming in at $3 on knife country usa
agreed . but the ones I hate are not the quality ones demonstrated here but the *attack of the clone* sabenza spyderco SAK knock off that sadly look like the real thing but far from being what that are not..
that said a Chinese company making a quality product...and not a clone I'm all for it
great video and very fair
I own usa made knives and Taiwanese made knives. I prefer usa knives because most of china made knives are based off of usa knife makers designs. Originality and quality goes to usa but china is almost on par for quality with no originality. Low cost and high quality shouldn't be the main weight to justify a perfect knife which blinds a lot of knife users collectors today. Just buy knives that make you happy regardless of cost quality and where its made.
I would take a spyderco over a kizer in most cases. I'm not blown away by kizer like I am by reate or custom knife factory.
Frank F I agree totally.
Am I the only person that finds $375 hard to swallow for a folding knife well actually almost any knife. Don’t get me wrong there are plenty I would like to have that are very expensive but I feel there is a point of diminishing return at least for me. I was actually hoping this video would discuss more of the budget range Chinese knives. In particular the ones that claim to have d2 steel or m390 or s35v if I could a knife with a good steel for cheap I would be in 7th heaven even if it was a little ugly or heavy haha
Benchmade comes to mind due to overprice and only okay fit and finish.
Benchmade's going to find themselves in a world of hurt, yeah. Value Conscious customers will go to Chinese quality knives, and US-Conscious customers will go to companies worth a damn in the states (e.g. ZT, American Spydercos).
TWOSUN IS AWESOME AND ALL ORIGINAL NO CLONES OR RIPOFFS QUALITY MATERIALS AS CRAZY GOOD PRICES..sorry all caps just looked up from ranting..
Enlan is also great
@@A-G-F- I have been looking at a few but do not own any yet..have many many twosuns though..love them for sure..
As long as you stick to the names that have proved themselves, WE, Kizer, Reate, etc. I think you're getting a good product. On the other hand, companies like Ganzo or other names you've never heard of need to be passed on. I tried giving Ganzo a chance but 3 out of 4 had screws that stripped or turned and didn't back out. Ordered a clone, not a counterfeit, of a Sinkevich design for $144 that was a hot mess. It was given a glowing review on a channel that shall remain nameless that prompted me to buy it. Thankfully the site I ordered it from is processing a refund. Stick with the names you know and have a track record of putting out quality. I'll never buy a budget or no name Chinese knife again, lesson learned.
need a history lesson but boker ( I know 2nd biker comment lol) I believe is a German company but knives are made in China? not sure but hoping in youre future review, I'm putting it on u Nick lol, of a boker knife u will elaborate!!!!!
zero 4U I was trying to say inappropriate comment, then there's the trolls . I made a comment saying that the apostles view bordered on racist but, I didn't want to imply it. well that was maybe not a good choice by me? Like I said though, I do watch apostle videos but , he does put me off a little. In reality I really don't know the guy so I choose to give him some slack and try to enjoy what he has to offer . which isn't always my cup of tea. Anyway, good thread .
I think China plants have improved their metal treating, and are now using much more modern steels. Screws on early Kizer's were soft, but now seem stronger. Finish can be very good. Truth is they pay workers not much, and don't have health coverage, and I am not so sure they have a social security system, (excepting their children)...etc, etc, etc...And many of our so called staple companies like Boker buy Chinese...as does my fav company Spydie, so................ shit!!!
Randall Kelley Ganzo is the king of soft screws.
12GaugeTommy did a video torture testing a $4 Walmart knife. It held up to a pretty surprising amount of abuse for something in that price range.
The only problem in your logic is that your money may support a system that the ordinary Joe is effed by a system that workers live in substandard conditions. I don't mind American companies competing with other companies with at least half way decent living quality for the workers.
It is unfair for american companies to compete with companies who only pay their employee few cents an hour.
You have a great point. But what he is saying is that US companies must make a better product. Most consumers are not even loyal to one company let alone USA made. It must be a value to the consumer. That is the main driving force. PERIOD! Why should someone buy USA made if it is not better and is more money. Look at Walmart? Business is booming! As far as wages in USA, with inflation, wages have been incredibly stagnant in 30 yrs! Yes 30! So people need to worry about their finances and what they can afford and put food on the table. They are not going to jeopardize that to buy American because competition with China. Think about it.
As far as unfair, I do not see Spyderco (Who have products made all over) and Benchmade and ZT hurting. Look at the prices of Benchmade! A joke!
+Jesus Garcia I agree 100% there. Companies hiring 12 year olds, or running indebted servants, need to go the heck away. But that's not a China problem so much as a factory problem. I've never heard any accusations that Reates are made by middle schoolers. And, well, if they are, those are some damned talented middle schoolers.
International non-governmental organizations (NGOs), such as Human Rights in China and Amnesty International, and citizens, lawyers, and dissidents inside the country, state that the authorities in mainland China regularly sanction or organize fundamental human rights abuses.
The citizens in Taiwan can change their government through elections and are held to enjoy most basic rights.
Good points. But a $350 knife made in China is not competing with a $350 knife made in America. American workers have to make a higher wage because of the higher standard of living costs. A Chinese worker making $50 week saves the owners overhead that U.S. companies can't achieve. I don't mind Chinese knives if they are well made and don't say "Made in China" on them. (I don't like being reminded) AND I won't pay more than $100 for a Chinese knife. We can't avoid Chinese products all around us, but when I can "choose" I lean away from China. It's Workers have "suicide nets" outside large factories for when they jump out the window, they can be put BACK on the assembly line in one piece. (Google it).
And NO, Taiwan is NOT "China"...and they make FANTASTIC knives, Spydercos best factory is there.
You conveniently forgot to mention the counterfeit knives made in China.
+amo757 I do at the end of the video. Explicitly.
I think that the counterfeit Chinese knives are not the fault of kizer, reate ect. These company have done what some may say is impossible in a relatively short period of time. the quality of these knives is just incredible in alot of cases.
You ever gonna show your face, Nick? :P
He's already answered that in an ask Nick video. It was no .
+kerryrwac Obviously, I didn't know that. 😛
3:43 talking about you benchmade
unless you are testing the metal there is no way you can tell if they are telling the truth about the steel that they are using ii have a Chinese knife ttat says its elmax............its softer then h1.
@@blairtaylor9552 they do it all the time lol
I just know benchmade will service you for a lifetime. But maybe so does WE. Is it me or do all these Chinese high quality production knives look like they’re manufactured by the same company? WE, Rike, Reate, HEAdesign. Reminds me of Kershaw/ZT relationship.