Tarkov Devs Calling Out Arena Breakout for STEALING ASSETS- ruclips.net/video/C977PDCKHDk/видео.htmlsi=PtWBsIj_alhkt2yK 3d Artist Reacts to Arena Breakout "STEALING" Escape from Tarkov Assets- ruclips.net/video/BNPG2hLqRUc/видео.htmlsi=6oifFObT9aZ6LG9_ I am not defending or attacking anyone. I am just giving you the truth. Love me, hate me, I really don't care. Anyways, live on www.twitch.tv/eroktic
Another BIG important thing is the High Poly version and Normal Map. No matter what "They" do, they would never have acess on the BSG High Poly model. With that in mind IF they copied 1-1 model they WILL FOR SURE have the same UV map because they need the normal map to have Convex and Cavity Details on the weapon or attachements.
But tarkov is ripping off gun manufacturers without having the licenses. LMAO. HEY GUYS LOOK SOMEONE STOLE OUR NONE LICENSED DESIGNES FROM GUN MANUFACTURERS WAHHHHH
Mods from Assetto Corsa are steals of everything they can... lol From Gran Turismo, Forza, The Crew, whatever... They just steal and port / adapt to the new engine and you can tell, some mods are truly good. The problem is when they make the visuals and just ''f@ck off'' to physics... Some are stuning, but a total crap to drive... LOL
@@hooyabaaa2 Yea, but the GT ones are the most populars cause GT makes the best car models. and yes the physics not always are the same quality as the visuals, thats why you follow the good creators and not shitty ones like MNBA or Ceky Performance
Yeah, it's literally sort -u or 10 lines python script to check how many of them are the same. Probably must align models first and then check that vertacies are the same.
The thing I don't understand about the copying allegations is that the examples BSG uses are guns that are pretty common in more milsim shooters and are also probably easy to get premade available assets for legitimately. Why risk having problems when you could do it easier legitimately
I like to see your take (+ The experts you talked to for your first video) about Eroktic's view. All the drama and EFT-ABI fanboyism aside, I find this kind of investigation and forensics fascinating! Keep up the good work, both of you.
Even I, as a Level Designer with some knowledge about 3D modelling can make a compelling argument that these assets are not a copy paste / plagiarism. I also asked 3 real Senior Level Artists / Modelers if what Nikita is posting on Twitter is legit evidence that these pictures represent the same asset. All of them said no, different topology, end of discussion. 2 static images (with different topo) CANNOT prove plagiarism. The only proof they can make is to show total count of vertices/faces etc and positioning. (As you mentioned in the video) But, my honest opinion is that BSG try to win in the court of public opinion.
That would be fun to watch, as they have almost no positive "public opinion" left at this point )). Well, maybe it's their only option now. For me the key thing here will be the Steam DMCA claim against ABI. If it gets filed, then then Nikita has something real to show for it, if not, he doesn't.
The topology isn’t different, it’s translated topology. Quads to triangle, it’s very normal when porting models. That isn’t different topology and any 3D modeler can tell you these are all stolen assets. Eroktic has zero idea what he’s talking about on this topic.
@@gagekellstrom3978 yes, trigger guard is proof its stolen asset. topology is 1:1 when it simply cannot be from 2 independant artists from arguably two different parts of the world
I'm no subject matter expert as I just dabbled in 3d modeling. But it's nice to see someone finally saying something that makes sense and proving it with examples. Also for Nikita Buyanov from St.Petersburg: I'm deeply sorry you feel that way, I didn't expect you to react this way.
Eroktic, I have ZERO years experience in 3D modelling and I can both SEE and UNDERSTAND PERFECTLY all the examples you're showing here! It's CLEAR that the assets are not stolen. Drunk Nikita at it again!
Yeah but it's not obvious IF you dont know it. Im sure most people will see it as a Copy if they dont have this backgrownd knowledge shown here. I also thought it is stolen especially if you (i) have seen other Things that look very stolen/similar, like Map layout, Bronze Lion statues, and much more that makes it look like stolen or at least copied(recreated). So more People need to see This Video here imo.
@@lolasdm6959 No bro, they even overlap to 99%, ofc if you look very close you see the differences, but most people wont. So if it was "Obvious" no one would believe it and no one would need a video like this, and he wouldnt have made this Video.
@@adamricecracker7128 Yeah because as the youtuber said, ABI modeled the gun with BSG models as a references. But you can clearly see ABI models have more details. Most people don't even care or even looked at most of the "evidence" Nakita even puts out. Half of the people accusing ABI are just racists that will believe anything said about a Chinese game.
It's likely that Nikita doesn't actually know that... I don't know what level of competence he has in 3D modelling, but making a video game takes so much more than just knowing 3D that it's totally possible his level of expertise is in another domain. Programing, writing, designing, server admin... idk, I don't even know how game dev works that well. All I'm saying is that it's easy to imagine that while he has a decent understanding of how 3D modelling works, he might leave it to the real experts he has employed to do it, and just got fooled himself by how similar the meshes look, like some experts with years of experience in the field seemingly did, because he simply doesn't know better... Does it make him look like an idiot? sure, and it's hilarious. Does it necessarily mean he's being purposefully disingenuine? not necessarily... Stupidity and dishonesty aren't the same thing! Nikita has been dishonest before (recently!) but in this instance, while stupidity is definitely proven, I'm not sure dishonesty actually is.
Call me when the Rhino .raw models are compared _and match._ All of these AK and handgun models are bought and sold on the asset market daily and, frankly, I have zero confidence that both of them aren't either a) employing the same underpaid foreign modelers, or b) buying their assets from the same storefront.
I mean, they bought the model for the knife that comes with unheard edition for like 5 bucks. I wouldnt be suprised if most of the models were bought in the first place.
Bro game has so many issues there community has been complaining about for years. Yet homie will go complain on twitter about another game then making his own game better. Literally children's mindset thinking the internet gives a crap.
Homis, don't forget we're talking about real-life weapon models. If i make 3D model of IKEA chair, and you will make 3D model of the same IKEA chair doesn't mean we stole from each other, right?
Ironically two high skill modelers using the same software will make what is essentially the same model if given a reference or exact distinct measurements for specific things. The timeline might not look the same in the sense that they didn't necessarily do things in the exact same order but the same elements are present. There are many ways to get the same result but slightly differently arranged as shown in the wireframe triangles. My personal experience though is with fusion360 for industrial applications
True, but even if the models look the same without the wireframe, the wires should be different and the positions of the vertices will probably be slightly different too. If the two models are literally exactly the same, then yes, somebody stole. What is pointed out in this video is that while the ABI weapons look similar, the actual positions and number of vertices dont match, and therefore it is highly unlikely that they were copied.
I completely agree, that they may have used eft models as reference to create their own, buuuuuuut, i dont believe they outright stole those assets. They would have to reconstruct which is not logical, in any way, shape, or form. In my experience with 3d modeling, he is correct in stating that trying to convert from tri's back to quads will almost always result in broken topology in some way, creating more work in the end. More work means more man hours, wages, etc. Not impossible, but HIGHLY illogical
Or they just used the same gun models from real life to model their assets. In the end, Tencent is just going to stay silent about this because BSG are the ones that have to prove their accusation. And no court would ever accept a picture like that as proof. It's very clear to me what Nikita is doing, he's just trying to fool people that can't think rationally in order to emotionally manipulate them into boycotting ABI. Which is clever and very likely to happen given how stupid people are.
The money behind arena break out incomparable. crazy how Nikita can’t comprehend how much more advanced there game development is. It’s tencent. Bsg had one advantage. The community and that’s dead
He did say it was Arena, bc he already replied to tweets that called the Yellow Assets to be from Arena Breakout and he didnt correct them but showed more proof.
i honestly think both of them bought the asset from the same market and then triangolated in different ways. In any case nikita can't sue because it's not original.
Yes but they need to dot their Is and cross their Ts because it's tencent/CCP funded. If it goes to court BSG is done with legal fees. They need to make sure it's an open and shut case before actually bringing a case forward
@@Toothydeere so do you understand how China works vs Russia? Any tech based company in China is owned and operated under guidelines from the CCP. Anything and everything they make, take in, or do. Is owned by the CCP not the company. Russia isn't like that 1. And 2. BSG is technically in London their dev studio is only in St. Petersburg
@@GamerMarine89 If that's what BSG is aiming for, they're not achieving it by doing this defamation campaign. That's not their goal, what they want is to taint their public image to push people into boycotting ABI. Steam is not going to accept pictures like that as proof of anything, but they might block their launch if there's a lot of heat towards the game from the playerbase.
The tricky part is these guns are real life guns, there's not much of an originality when modelling these real life objects So the only way to investigate these matters are exactly like you just did Eroktic. Good job.
and its silly accusing peoples stealing their models if it was real life guns like its a freaking guns we have irl! ive seen too many FPS game that i lost count whats the differences between those guns models other than less or more poly count so yeah either ABI Trace or outright stole Nikita's model or Nikita being drunk and accusing someone out of nowhere, i still blame nikita.why? cuz its a freaking same gun on almostevery game! and im not even FPS enthusiast or both player, to me a bystander, this makes me dont want to see tarkov lol
The meta data is key to support or deny the allegation. I imagine BSG simulated the condition with conversion in which case meta data would be generated. It would be necessary to compare that conversion data and one would expect to have that available in order to do so. Conversion generates conditions that may need to be resolved requiring manual or patch help, this process generates another data set and so it goes forever and ever. Facts over feelings, the community is too smart to rely on overlays.
I am a 3d modeler its clear that they did not directly take the models and put then into their game. However they may have ripped out the tarkov models and used them as a direct reference, Tarkov being in unity it is ridiculously easy to rip the assets out. The big problem here is, whether what Breakout has done is illegal in this case, and i goes into many many issues here, whether they used contractor work who did this without their knowledge or their direct full time employees did it, it's all very hard to prove. Like wise if Breakout arena and Tarkov used photo scans of the models they will be insanely close to each other like what we see in the images. The real kicker to me however is that Nikita is using the Ak-12 and Ar-15 specifically to prove plagiarism. The Ak-12 3d model is available on the Kalashnikov website and can be easily downloaded. The Ar-15 has SOOO many CAD files and complete cad files to boot floating around the internet that they could have used the same CAD model as a reference and you would again get ridiculously close shapes between 2 models.
very hard, read impossible. even if they had literal 1 to 1 copies of multiple in game models, there is LITERALLY NOTHING they could do about it. what, is a russian company going to sue a chinese one in a US or UK court? L O L. he is trying his hardest to keep the "true believers" on his side. they would not even be able to take them to court let alone prove it, even if it WAS true. MAYBE a US company suing another US company. and even then its questionable to prove without DIRECT 1 to 1 copies. all this speculation means nothing because nothing will come of it. as if "broke ass" BSG could even afford to go up against tencent at this point. 3d artists use others models as direct references CONSTANTLY, and the ones who dont are just bad. reminder that true believers are telling you you should not play the game that seems better in most ways because a contractor (ALLEGEDLY) used a tarkov model as reference. ignoring the fact that tarkov directly rips sounds and assets for other games and media at the same time. its just fanboyism and mr Buyanov stirring up shit because he knows he has real competition now.
@@mrrooter601 I use other models as reference, but i keep quiet about it. I honestly don't play either game. I've only played tarkov for a very short while and it just causes me to want to throw my PC out the window, too aggravating, i don't need that in my life. I am only here because the algorithm keeps recommending me these videos. You are right about the other things, I didn't know breakout was tencent or chinese. They have 0 ways of suing them even if they directly stole their models they'd only be able to sit and take it.
As 3d modeler/C# dev I can tell you that you can manually melt the triangles back into quads (not decimate).... I do it in C4d all the time... but it will require you to completely redo the UV map after that to match the texture file it is associated with. Not saying that it was done. Personally think its impractical and just modeling the item yourself from scratch would make for less headaches.
And you, sir, are easily manipulated. As a gamedev wep modeller, I can perfectly see what yellow guys did with BSG models. And if they weren't amateurs and tried a little more than that - then no one would notice it and this whole mess would have been avoided.
@@TehSnake586 well I've made no assumptions at all, for all we know Nikita could've whipped the yellows up himself. But the explanation that eroktik has posted here is solid enough for a layman to understand. So how about you re-evaluate what I've said now that I've spelled out for you what everyone else seemingly understood. The moment you assume you make an ass out of u and me, put it on a shirt or tattoo it on your forehead, it'll help.
@@TehSnake586 well I've made no assumptions at all, for all we know Nikita could've whipped the yellows up himself. But the explanation that eroktik has posted here is solid enough for a layman to understand. So how about you re-evaluate what I've said now that I've spelled out for you what everyone else seemingly understood. The moment you assume you make an ass out of u and me, put it on a shirt or tattoo it on your forehead, it'll help.
@@TehSnake586 well I've made no assumptions at all, for all we know Nikita could've whipped the yellows up himself. But the explanation that eroktik has posted here is solid enough for a layman to understand. So how about you re-evaluate what I've said now that I've spelled out for you what everyone else seemingly understood. "The moment you assume you make an ass out of u and me", put it on a shirt or tattoo it on your forehead, it'll help.
@@HiddenBlade By thanking Eroktik you assumed that his point of view is correct, without asking real pro opinions. The one who shouts louder isn't always right. And stop being a smartass, cuz you're the one who belived a delusional clown blogger. I personally saw both of those models myself and can absolutely say that he is wrong, and the models were stolen and slightly reworked indeed. End of story.
The best way to put this is ABI and all of its assets are legally dubious. We all know where it all came from, whether it’s directly from EFT or been hand modified to be legally distinct from the EFT model. The health pool number, ammo damage numbers, reload animations, weapon textures, and audio. It’s all familiar but that doesn’t mean Nik can do anything about it.
jesus christ, i guess every genre we cant have a new game. also extraction shooters are the new br, how the fuck are they supposed to make it this crazy unique game so you guys dont bitch. Tarkov is a stalker clone, abi is a tarkov clone, every game is a clone of another
Triangulation happens also with the position of vertices, since the BSG model does not show where the vertices are (but we are assuming everything is quad) we can't really be sure of how the triangulation is going to happen. To me, the biggest giveaway is from the "fighting" that happens between the models....when 2 faces are colliding to the exact same coordinates, that is called "fighting". In my eyes, as a 3d modeler, the chances of having multiple areas of fighiting is close to none, unless the model has been exported from the same source...i think that "they them" are using the same model as BSG with absolute certainty. Either way this is not a good show from BSG, makes them look desperate to find something to accuse "they/them" with but to no avail, the gamer will just game, intellectual property is not something that a customer will care about so i'm not sure why they are doing all of this....we see piracy everyday , but we don't see other big companies complain about games being cracked. Of course this is just my opinion, being right or wrong is irrelevant to me.
But theres more factors missing? I studied and worked with CAD/CAM and im far away from an expert BUT wouldnt different engines translate quads differently? And wouldnt a simple chamfer affect the triangulations?
if a developer accuses other games of "copying" their game. thats just projecting. the amount of effort theyre doing for proving a myth should be put on fixing their own overpriced game.
Cooks only about the meshing, although that's just one part of modelling, where did the UV mapping & textures on that dong go from Onepeg's video, to me that was the most evident one, hope you can explain that as well.
Could probably be a third party texture file that both got. In C4D or Blender you can also just import texture files onto models. Maybe those are the same but who knows
@@xavier2094 he's also a salty ass BSG hater. So I'll listen to the professional modelers who say it's statistically impossible for them to have the same models from different artists.
@@hotwings8973 He's a "BSG hater" for a good reason. He's also a professional modeler and he is also telling you that the models are different. At the end of the day, there are professionals on both sides of the argument and you aren't going to change your mind: You are only going to believe who you want to believe because it confirms your bias.
@@Jstraitedge he's clearly not a professional. He pulled in a random AK model then talked about how all games are triangles, but that's false. If you actually pull in the game models and compare them they are the same. Period. I couldn't care less if bsg went under. But I'm not gonna pretend that these people are not clearly stealing assets either. It's clear who has the bias and it's not me.
Good shout checking the triangulation, at first glance they are super similar. I'm not convinced they haven't used the base meshes and welded up some of the verts. Yes working off tri meshes is a nightmare but iirc Maya's "to quad" operations is pretty good at resolving meshes like that. Decimation is also MUCH much mUUUUUUUCH better in Zbrush and even in maya than what blender's decimation modifier does. You're probably right they retopoed over BSG's models if anything, but there's nothing stopping them grabbing some of the existing geo, reducing edges by strategically welding some of the triangles into neighbouring ones, I've done that many times on characters that didn't have a quad version anymore/ needed a dirty proxy mesh.
Texture asset stimulatory with 1:1 pixel match is a huge give away that @onepeg showed in the AK foregrip - I'd be interested to seeing more of these comparisons from different assests. Someone could have manually optimised the BSG meshes (however time consuming that would be) to create lower poly meshes for engine speed. This "might" be slightly quicker than a original rebuild if your artist was a fast and good modeler, but it is still weird the fundamental structural vertices are identical positions (i.e trigger guard). But the fact that these assets can be extracted from the game, just shows you how easy it is to "RIP OFF" the geometry and textures. Another good comparison would be to compare the same AK from another shooter, I'm pretty convince there would be little similarity in the mesh apart from it modelling the same gun. (10yr computer game artist and 30yr 3D artist)
I dont know how the guy in the video is saying that Arena did not steal it with those evidence you talk about. I have been doing 3d since more than 10 years and to me, it looks like they just quickly use tarkov, collapse few edges and call it a day. I still would like to extract the game myself to be sure of the sources but from the screen it is telling
@@JanPatatoes The dude has 0 experience regarding game assets or anything related to that and the things he is saying just prove that. I have been modding extracted models from games for decades and I find all he is saying amusing at best. Even I made my own models using tarkov's as a reference because they are mid-poly and they can be used to bake textures onto a new mesh in like hours if not minutes.
The only real thing I can see here is the screw at 11:09 where the one on the left is more flat while the right is more rounded. They could've used the same or similar reference material. It still doesn't prove anything was stolen.
@@Kalergi_Plan_Accelerationist I keep saying this without having any knowledge of the tech. If 2 people are modeling a real-life item, shouldn't they look the same no matter who scans the item? It's not an apple. All apples look a little different but a mass-produced item like a gun is going to look the same no matter what.
@@Kalergi_Plan_Accelerationist You don't say. fml. We're talking about the screw. Not the whole gun. The screw is basically the smoking gun that it's not ripped from Tarkov.
@@orlfane1622 Yes. This is what I said. Maybe I phrased it poorly. I was saying that the major thing showing that it's not ripped from Tarkov is the screw (ignoring the poligon differences)
@@nknumero I appreciate the kind words, maybe one day i'll be able to put my creations into an actual project, and find the motivation to actually make more
Bro Im happy I find your channel. I love that you are actually educated on the subject and have logical views on it as well instead of just blindly believing what everyone else is saying. You earned my sub, keep up the good work!
hate to say it but you are wrong on the triangulation angle. it is a astronomical coincidence to non-quad surface has same vertices to be in same locations in two different models. because these are not solid models these are mesh models, measurement argument also falls flat. gotta ask nikita though how did he come across other developers models?? did he steal their meshes from the game just to compare?
People need to know that making replica game is not like making a replica watch or t-shirt. It would take way more effort and time for them to take the assets from them and put them into ABI
They did not model a new one using Tarkov as reference, most likely they modified the Tarkov meshes to their standarts. Actually pretty common in the industry, my previous lead provided me with the ripped models from the World of guns on steam, so i will modify them and produce models for their game
There is idiot Streamers out there who's only claim to fame is been able to play a game and they are posting Nikita's stuff claiming its 100% stolen as if they are 3D software experts but not backing anything up, its just Nikita is balls deep in them and they love him so much they will regurgitate anything he says. So thankyou for actually going through this and explaining to us how this all works.
I agree with you that it is not a direct copy but definitely a reference from the Tarkov model. Looking at Onepeg's video looking at the texture of the wood handguard, it has the same scratch texture with slight modifications.
might be worth checking out the stuff mentioned by the other modelers in the community. id be interested to see what you have to say about their particular points. this is super educational and clarifying though. im just interested in the non-nikita related stuff from other players and community members.
It's more likely the case that it isn't stolen. However mesh that looks THAT close is really fishy. I've been working for 12 nearly 13 years in the 3d industry. You could tell everyone you work with or every student to build an ak 3d model and nothing would look even close to each other essentially. Could be because they used softwares other than blender with more precise triangulation & polycount reduction if they nicked it, and just reduced the polycount for their mobile game originally. A single Modifier in 3DS Max (when I last used it about 7 years ago) could make results like this. But there is also a high chance that both companies used the exact same reference to model the same AK. Presuming they didn't buy it that is. I know I am counter-dicting myself here but hopefully you get my point. I do not think it's stolen personally. This is because if I were to nick it, I'd use the 3ds max I remember and if not then unreal engine to give it a full remesh while still being able to save the UVW's so you would not be able to tell. It's quite literally the click of a button. In my old (apparently top rated) school specialized in 3d, they used to teach is to always steal whenever possible. Kinda funny when it gets suspected of happening though. :D
Or the arena breakout team has more resources and more references to pull from to make their models I'd still want to have actual proof rather than a salty dev complaining Bro is going to get sued himself
@@Eroktic From what I remember which is vague, Yes. I know that's not much to go on though, apologies. :) But it would likely look different somewhat. From what I remember, in this case I would quadify the mesh to 100% then triangulate it by 5% and follow selections, to re-create the exact same yellow model shown. This will however affect the UVW's to a certain extent. Could possibly be fixed by a skilled unwrapper which is WAAAAAAAY out of my league. I keep editing this reply due to spelling mistakes. Can recommend beer after work, kids. :D
To be fair the meshes are already triangulated in the 3d software by default. The gpu works with triangles so basically is already triangulated under the hood. 3d artists work in quads because it makes their life easier to execute some "tecqniques" such as uv mapping and stuff like that. But for the gpu, they are already triangles.
Graphics cards are programmed with triangular math, meaning graphics cards can only understand drawing triangles and are extremely good at that one thing. Game engines use triangles as well because it saves compile time by skipping the conversion on compile. They do that, because triangle is the simplest geometric area with which you can represent 3D space.
Probably traced to cut costs. Stealing is illegal but copying isn't, though it is frowned upon. But hey knowing how they run sweatshops if it cuts costs might as well go with the free route.
I mean you can't definitively prove that they ripped the assets off of Tarkov to copy them based on the models. But you can speculate that they did...which is not enough sometimes in court.
At the end of the day it's BSG using the court of public opinion as bullets to fire at ABI. Why do we even care? We're just consumers. (Well unless you payed $250 for Unheard you can care as much as you want I guess)
In video games you have LODS it could be a LOD export from engine and not original source, also they might have needed to optimise the guns to run better in game which would be removing detials like you have pointed out...
At this point you're ready to use any argument against bsg even the stupidest one. The conversion from Quad to Tri is trivial. You just cut in half every quad. There are only 2 way to convert a single quad into a tri. Tris are just quad divided by two. But sytematically converting back to the same quad is actually impossible. You need to know exactly whats pairs of tris you need to select everytime. Even the wear pattern are exactly the same on some handle. You hate bsg maybe for a good reason , but acting stupid like that is only detrimental to you
Anyone with some firearm and 3d modeling knowledge would easily tell you that these are stolen assets, AKA Nikita. The way battle state models their weapons they use REAL reference firearms, and with the AK platform rifles not one rifle would be able to be this exact to make a model so similar. The tolerances on these rifles for some parts are too wide for this to even seem like a possibility of Arena Breakout being innocent. Arena Breakout Clearly stole the EFT assets, it looks like they might have remodeled some, and others are just straight up rips. Anyone who is defending Arena Breakout or putting any doubt on whether they are stolen just lacks the knowledge to know otherwise.
You make a good point. The models could be really well done copies. Do you think this why the animations are so very similar as well? The side by side animations on many of the reloads, such as the M4, P90, and AK platforms are identical, with what I believe to be very minor changes to try to make them seem different. Curious to hear your opinion.
For all we know there could be a person who is not doing stuff "in-house" as Nikita might want to believe. Wouldn't be surprised if some intern is grabbing models and animations from places and passing them as done by themselves.
Here's an alternative perspective, I dont care if its stolen or borrowed. If you put a 3D asset into the wild, expect it to be stolen. Just ask the 3D2A community.
honestly its really up to kalashnikov concern and Russian and uk law to figure out that happened as the game might not have had the rights to use the gun but only the name and then did a copy of the correct model from a different game
I feel like they may have snapped the vertices to 'copy' the model in that way. If it is 1:1 in some areas, or many areas they could save a lot of time and effort snapping vertices to the other model as a lattice. Like a painter taking someone else's composition and colour palette, the hard thought work is already done but to put the brush work in. Some things would take a lot of time and be nonsensical but Eroktic I think you underestimate the labour others will take. If they understand what they need to do and it takes a long time they will do it because it is just work. They will not do the innovative or creative thing to conjure a solution to do things more efficiently or quickly. I've heard of horror stories of old co-workers going to the companies' studio in India to help speed things along to train them and work was being done in such a way that it was nonsensical like doing things manually that take 5-10 times longer when the studio developed propriety tools that they can just press a button which was the whole reason their branch in India was setup, to just get sent a lot of menial small tasks to use that tool and clean up and send back to NA so the main team can do the main work quicker. I agree with you on everything else but that, they probably did the 'smart' thing to do if they copied by using the models as a base and changing the homework to not be completely the same which if following stereotype 90% of the R&D and work is done by others and they sell the copies. If Nikita does release the vertex coordinates there will probably be some exact matches, but only some and only on one or two planes but the sequence may be out of order, the hard work is done but it is easy to make it not exact. Nikita admitted to actually taking the 3D work of others a long time ago when they were starting out while these seem to be copies so it is ironic they complain now to have it done to them.
People are saying decimate modifier because they watched onepeg's stupid ass video where he just talks out his ass about stuff he has no idea about. The second he said OH ITS BECAUSE THEY USED THE DECIMATE MODIFIER i just started laughing my ass off because you instantly knew he had no idea what the hell he was talking about.
Dude, with all respect, I have been modeling for 15 years and I disagree. Of course, I didn't search the models by myself so I dont know where it come from or if nikita is straight up lying, but there is a lot of good explanation to why there is those little differences. On some of the screenshot you show, there is literally edges that are exactly the same, especially at 10.24. There is no way it can be done by two different people even if they try to produce the same realistic gun. You talk about decimation but 1. blender is doing a shit job at it 2. it can be done manually. Come on man, those are the same edge ring with few loops removed or collapsed. I can have the same result from left to right in maybe 5 minutes ... Again, I dont know where those models come from, but if one is bsg and the other is arena, those example here are WAY too similar to be made by two artist on different games. Go and take any other game that have those weapon and you will see how different a wireframe can actually be
Good video, learned a lot. After watching onepeg say the dust covers in the 1:19 tweet are both ABI models and not even in Tarkov (It's a match! :D), i think its clear Nikita is trying to use lies and propaganda to mobilize a troll army to do his dirty work for him. And ultimately it will backfire because all he's doing is advertising ABI to his entire playerbase as something 1:1 equivalent-or-better. This is not going to end well for him xD
there are a lot of model designers that are in ABI, you can untriangulate a mesh by hand even if it takes time, which they have a lot of. think with your brain. and that vertex idea wouldn't work because if the model is moved even a tiny bit it would change the location of all the vertices making that idea useless.
@@Eroktic can you elaborate? any why are your opinions so heavily biased towards ABI, you probably have thousands of hours in tarkov, why change your opinion so quickly.
Arena Breakout has been in the mobile space for 2 years where was BSG at the time if they are so sure and angry that somebody stolen their assets ? Sure the mobile version and the PC version are not the same but are you telling me they re made the same guns they have in the mobile instead of just polishing them ? I kinda doubt that. Nikita is Pis**** and shi***** on the floor becouse ABI is doing Great and he knows that if when the game release to the public the tarkov numbers will go down eaven more, the Tencent juggernaut is on the move and he is coming for them and there is nothing they can do to stop it . Yes they can wipe but many will not go back and many will stay only for 20 min. PS. the player pop is still present in SPT by the way PSS 10 min max queue time and 25 min raid time for coop no thanks you can keep it homie
Very interesting and informative. When I see that, I understand there is no point I try to figure out what is stealing an asset or not with my 0 knowledge. I thought Nikita gave a clear evidence of a ripoff but now I see I can't trust anyone since I don't know what a solid evidence is....
My man doesn't know that different 3d software and game engines use different triangulation logic, its fully reversable if you use the same program it was triangulated by, you even showed that when you triangulated the cube. Showing that converting tri's to quad's in blender "breaks the model" assumes firstly that nothing has been manually converted to tri's to enforce direction by the BSG devs (they have) and that the model itself was fully converted to tri's in blender prior to being exported to Unity (you can see in the screenshots from BSG, they have not been). If you're going to sit on the internet and say stuff like "Its insane I have to teach you all how triangulation works" at the very least please get it right.
Please provide me documentation of this or any kind of examples. I can't find your method on the internet. It's ungoogleable. EDIT: with your logic, tris to quad should work on ak in blender just like I've shown in the video, but it does not.
its easy to unpack the tarkov files and extract all items, and its just as easy to model on top of them to make your own models as shown in the video.... you will save tons of work time in 3d dept. and its not 1:1 copy as there is work involved, but its 1/10th of the time than making same model from scratch depeing on the complexity of the model
lol no, another file had tarkov stolen texture's that were 100% made by battlestate which is the smoking gun anyone can see... but also you can EASILY change poly count and type within SECONDS and with quick googling, not like its even a hidden aspect of blinder. if you don't know what the Decimate modifier is or what it dose, it can make a high poly gun (tarkov) into a crap mobile game poly count (arena breakout) also two BIG SUS things, tarkov and arena is 1 to 1 game... its sooooo unlikely it makes dream look like a legit Minecraft player. I'm talking all the assets, player models, worlds geometry, almost everything is a 1 TO 1 or being pixels small... but why small and not bigger.... because they use decimate tool... decimate has the side effect of reducing volume/surface area and do everything you CLAIM in the video within seconds (that how easily wrong this video is) how hard is it for your ego to accept that this is a stolen asset and texture flip game FROM A CHINESE company own by TenCent who is know to own dozens of asset flip companies that make asset flip games under tencent (also what is a Russian company going to do against a Chinese company... lol nothing sadly); also you don't know anything about blinder... if you never use decimate before you even think or breath it, yes you can take unity assets and textures into blinder
Love it when someone who ACTUALLY has experience in the industry makes a video about a controversial topic like this instead of just regurgitating the same propaganda.
So decimate is only useful when you want to create a model with a low LOD one to save GPU performance, so just doing decimate would make it fucking ugly and is not an option when it's upclose to the player.
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
Tarkov Devs Calling Out Arena Breakout for STEALING ASSETS- ruclips.net/video/C977PDCKHDk/видео.htmlsi=PtWBsIj_alhkt2yK
3d Artist Reacts to Arena Breakout "STEALING" Escape from Tarkov Assets- ruclips.net/video/BNPG2hLqRUc/видео.htmlsi=6oifFObT9aZ6LG9_
I am not defending or attacking anyone. I am just giving you the truth. Love me, hate me, I really don't care.
Anyways, live on www.twitch.tv/eroktic
Link for the "Creative Commons Attribution" is not working. It has an extra ")" at the end. Good video! Definitely learned something from it!
be care full dint they copy strike u once tarkov ? like along time ago :D
Another BIG important thing is the High Poly version and Normal Map. No matter what "They" do, they would never have acess on the BSG High Poly model. With that in mind IF they copied 1-1 model they WILL FOR SURE have the same UV map because they need the normal map to have Convex and Cavity Details on the weapon or attachements.
@@Marc-th7rzman u need a hight poly when u doing baking process once its done u just need the texture right ?
@@edgardsimon983 That's right.
Nikita did more work in 3D software to "prove" that someone "stole" something from them then tried to fix his "offline" mode ddossing his servers.
🤣🤣🤣
This rialistique gamè still have zoom when you ADS(veri rialistik) which causes lag spikes because with lower FOV you load objects that are afar...
@@worldoftancraftfunny how a mobile game has picture in picture zoom before snarkov
@@LUCAS420BLZ fov changes ==> you have a zoom. Bravo is 4x? Nope. Bravo is 8 x. Because 2x(base FOV changes when you ADSing) multiply by 4.
BIG Oof
clicked for drama, ended up learning about 3d modelling
lol yeah, and funny enough it helps me understanding blender too lol
also might be useful for my godot adventures xD
hahaha same
"Riping off Content from Games is ILLEGAL" Assetto Corsa modders "yea sure... Look at this GT Impreza :O"
Lmaooo
But tarkov is ripping off gun manufacturers without having the licenses. LMAO. HEY GUYS LOOK SOMEONE STOLE OUR NONE LICENSED DESIGNES FROM GUN MANUFACTURERS WAHHHHH
Mods from Assetto Corsa are steals of everything they can... lol
From Gran Turismo, Forza, The Crew, whatever... They just steal and port / adapt to the new engine and you can tell, some mods are truly good.
The problem is when they make the visuals and just ''f@ck off'' to physics... Some are stuning, but a total crap to drive... LOL
@@hooyabaaa2 Yea, but the GT ones are the most populars cause GT makes the best car models. and yes the physics not always are the same quality as the visuals, thats why you follow the good creators and not shitty ones like MNBA or Ceky Performance
@@hooyabaaa2 also there are many scratch made mods
That's why i said i want the Raw files and not just pictures. Because there is no proof without the raws lol
Yeah, it's literally sort -u or 10 lines python script to check how many of them are the same. Probably must align models first and then check that vertacies are the same.
That or uv maps
@@rogo7330the audacity lmao its easier to do that than automate a topology modification ?
Nikita hasn't sent that yet. I WONDER WHY maybe because it'd get proven to be a Asset from Unity and Nikita story crumbles to dust.
I mean we technically have all the Files from EFT since they didnt encrypt their Content, but i still dont know how Nikita got the Models from Arena.
Eroktic Crash course did better at educating me than most of 3D modelling classes
then I feel sorry for u xd
@@nosirve9458 no we just aren’t severely autistic like you
@@nosirve9458 never been to a 3d modeling class but atleast now i dont feel completely lost when looking at all the lines on a model lol
Then u have taken some pretty shitty class.
I agree!
Learned a lot in watching this. Thank you for making it!
The thing I don't understand about the copying allegations is that the examples BSG uses are guns that are pretty common in more milsim shooters and are also probably easy to get premade available assets for legitimately. Why risk having problems when you could do it easier legitimately
I like to see your take (+ The experts you talked to for your first video) about Eroktic's view. All the drama and EFT-ABI fanboyism aside, I find this kind of investigation and forensics fascinating! Keep up the good work, both of you.
Well well... Look who it is...
Like a plottwist in a movie, the hard way. 😶🌫Hope the truth comes out about Nik's accusations.
I'm sorry crykita feels this way.
god tier
Even I, as a Level Designer with some knowledge about 3D modelling can make a compelling argument that these assets are not a copy paste / plagiarism.
I also asked 3 real Senior Level Artists / Modelers if what Nikita is posting on Twitter is legit evidence that these pictures represent the same asset.
All of them said no, different topology, end of discussion.
2 static images (with different topo) CANNOT prove plagiarism.
The only proof they can make is to show total count of vertices/faces etc and positioning. (As you mentioned in the video)
But, my honest opinion is that BSG try to win in the court of public opinion.
That would be fun to watch, as they have almost no positive "public opinion" left at this point )). Well, maybe it's their only option now. For me the key thing here will be the Steam DMCA claim against ABI. If it gets filed, then then Nikita has something real to show for it, if not, he doesn't.
The topology isn’t different, it’s translated topology. Quads to triangle, it’s very normal when porting models. That isn’t different topology and any 3D modeler can tell you these are all stolen assets. Eroktic has zero idea what he’s talking about on this topic.
Topology is actually exactly the same, how tf are u a designer/artist/modeler of any sort and u can't tell this from the pictures presented. yikes
@@gagekellstrom3978 Ok, please make a video and show it yourself.
@@gagekellstrom3978 yes, trigger guard is proof its stolen asset. topology is 1:1 when it simply cannot be from 2 independant artists from arguably two different parts of the world
I'm no subject matter expert as I just dabbled in 3d modeling. But it's nice to see someone finally saying something that makes sense and proving it with examples.
Also for Nikita Buyanov from St.Petersburg: I'm deeply sorry you feel that way, I didn't expect you to react this way.
Nikita Buyanov from the St Petersburg is not happy
Buljanov*
@@Eroktic "nêslahannoê naêbalovo" edition
@@Eroktic Bulge-a-nov? 🤣
@@Eroktic You think that pig deserves his name to be spelled right?
@@Eroktic Bullshitnov
Eroktic, I have ZERO years experience in 3D modelling and I can both SEE and UNDERSTAND PERFECTLY all the examples you're showing here! It's CLEAR that the assets are not stolen. Drunk Nikita at it again!
Yeah but it's not obvious IF you dont know it.
Im sure most people will see it as a Copy if they dont have this backgrownd knowledge shown here.
I also thought it is stolen especially if you (i) have seen other Things that look very stolen/similar, like Map layout, Bronze Lion statues, and much more that makes it look like stolen or at least copied(recreated).
So more People need to see This Video here imo.
@@adamricecracker7128 No bro, like a middle schooler can see it's not the same lines on the models. People who believe it, wants to believe it.
@@lolasdm6959 No bro, they even overlap to 99%, ofc if you look very close you see the differences, but most people wont.
So if it was "Obvious" no one would believe it and no one would need a video like this, and he wouldnt have made this Video.
@@adamricecracker7128 Yeah because as the youtuber said, ABI modeled the gun with BSG models as a references. But you can clearly see ABI models have more details. Most people don't even care or even looked at most of the "evidence" Nakita even puts out. Half of the people accusing ABI are just racists that will believe anything said about a Chinese game.
Nikita is losing his mind 🤣
Half of the people convinced it's stolen are just literal racists, they believe it because ABI is Chinese.
Nakita knows this, he just hoping the average guy doesnt
Niki is trying to turn his player base against ABI, make them look like the bad guy.
It's likely that Nikita doesn't actually know that...
I don't know what level of competence he has in 3D modelling, but making a video game takes so much more than just knowing 3D that it's totally possible his level of expertise is in another domain. Programing, writing, designing, server admin... idk, I don't even know how game dev works that well. All I'm saying is that it's easy to imagine that while he has a decent understanding of how 3D modelling works, he might leave it to the real experts he has employed to do it, and just got fooled himself by how similar the meshes look, like some experts with years of experience in the field seemingly did, because he simply doesn't know better...
Does it make him look like an idiot? sure, and it's hilarious.
Does it necessarily mean he's being purposefully disingenuine? not necessarily... Stupidity and dishonesty aren't the same thing!
Nikita has been dishonest before (recently!) but in this instance, while stupidity is definitely proven, I'm not sure dishonesty actually is.
Call me when the Rhino .raw models are compared _and match._ All of these AK and handgun models are bought and sold on the asset market daily and, frankly, I have zero confidence that both of them aren't either a) employing the same underpaid foreign modelers, or b) buying their assets from the same storefront.
Nikita mad someone else bought the same unity assets 😂
I mean, they bought the model for the knife that comes with unheard edition for like 5 bucks. I wouldnt be suprised if most of the models were bought in the first place.
It's honestly embarrassing they're spending more time making Twitter posts than developing their unfinished game
Bro game has so many issues there community has been complaining about for years. Yet homie will go complain on twitter about another game then making his own game better. Literally children's mindset thinking the internet gives a crap.
Tarkov is still beta?
@@popoi6427yup
Nikita knows he has no ground to stand on. Just trying to change the narrative.
Homis, don't forget we're talking about real-life weapon models. If i make 3D model of IKEA chair, and you will make 3D model of the same IKEA chair doesn't mean we stole from each other, right?
Ironically two high skill modelers using the same software will make what is essentially the same model if given a reference or exact distinct measurements for specific things. The timeline might not look the same in the sense that they didn't necessarily do things in the exact same order but the same elements are present. There are many ways to get the same result but slightly differently arranged as shown in the wireframe triangles. My personal experience though is with fusion360 for industrial applications
@@sa-amirel-hayeed699China can just buy blue print of AK from China Defense Industry and make it 3D model
True, but even if the models look the same without the wireframe, the wires should be different and the positions of the vertices will probably be slightly different too. If the two models are literally exactly the same, then yes, somebody stole. What is pointed out in this video is that while the ABI weapons look similar, the actual positions and number of vertices dont match, and therefore it is highly unlikely that they were copied.
I completely agree, that they may have used eft models as reference to create their own, buuuuuuut, i dont believe they outright stole those assets. They would have to reconstruct which is not logical, in any way, shape, or form. In my experience with 3d modeling, he is correct in stating that trying to convert from tri's back to quads will almost always result in broken topology in some way, creating more work in the end. More work means more man hours, wages, etc. Not impossible, but HIGHLY illogical
Or they just used the same gun models from real life to model their assets. In the end, Tencent is just going to stay silent about this because BSG are the ones that have to prove their accusation. And no court would ever accept a picture like that as proof. It's very clear to me what Nikita is doing, he's just trying to fool people that can't think rationally in order to emotionally manipulate them into boycotting ABI. Which is clever and very likely to happen given how stupid people are.
They themselves said they also scanned real guns to make those models (ABI).
The money behind arena break out incomparable. crazy how Nikita can’t comprehend how much more advanced there game development is. It’s tencent. Bsg had one advantage. The community and that’s dead
They can't even release Tarkov since 2017, but they have a 200€ Package. XD
He did say it was Arena, bc he already replied to tweets that called the Yellow Assets to be from Arena Breakout and he didnt correct them but showed more proof.
i honestly think both of them bought the asset from the same market and then triangolated in different ways. In any case nikita can't sue because it's not original.
It's so stupid that consumers are fighting this war. ABI wants to release on Steam, there are strings to pull there, no?
Yes but they need to dot their Is and cross their Ts because it's tencent/CCP funded. If it goes to court BSG is done with legal fees. They need to make sure it's an open and shut case before actually bringing a case forward
@@GamerMarine89so the choice is CCP funded or Kremlin funded, yeah I’m just not playing either lol
@@Toothydeere so do you understand how China works vs Russia? Any tech based company in China is owned and operated under guidelines from the CCP. Anything and everything they make, take in, or do. Is owned by the CCP not the company. Russia isn't like that 1. And 2. BSG is technically in London their dev studio is only in St. Petersburg
@@Toothydeere yeah then don't. Literally nobody asked you.
@@GamerMarine89 If that's what BSG is aiming for, they're not achieving it by doing this defamation campaign. That's not their goal, what they want is to taint their public image to push people into boycotting ABI. Steam is not going to accept pictures like that as proof of anything, but they might block their launch if there's a lot of heat towards the game from the playerbase.
The tricky part is these guns are real life guns, there's not much of an originality when modelling these real life objects
So the only way to investigate these matters are exactly like you just did Eroktic.
Good job.
and its silly accusing peoples stealing their models if it was real life guns
like its a freaking guns we have irl! ive seen too many FPS game that i lost count whats the differences between those guns models other than less or more poly count
so yeah either ABI Trace or outright stole Nikita's model or Nikita being drunk and accusing someone out of nowhere, i still blame nikita.why? cuz its a freaking same gun on almostevery game! and im not even FPS enthusiast or both player, to me a bystander, this makes me dont want to see tarkov lol
By that logic, then the gun companies should Sue all the people who tried to make replicas and models even in video games
idc if its stolen or copyed. remember pubg and fortnite? im a gamer all i do care is that i can play good games i like. dota /league
Eroktic’s "Ripoff series" is my favorite so far. Thanks for the insight, very entertaining and informative.
what about the paint or whatever being exactly the same as onepeg's video referenced? is there an explanation for that?
The meta data is key to support or deny the allegation. I imagine BSG simulated the condition with conversion in which case meta data would be generated. It would be necessary to compare that conversion data and one would expect to have that available in order to do so. Conversion generates conditions that may need to be resolved requiring manual or patch help, this process generates another data set and so it goes forever and ever. Facts over feelings, the community is too smart to rely on overlays.
Ok so, I think I learned all I need today to make my own game! Just wait for it! 😂
I am a 3d modeler its clear that they did not directly take the models and put then into their game.
However they may have ripped out the tarkov models and used them as a direct reference, Tarkov being in unity it is ridiculously easy to rip the assets out.
The big problem here is, whether what Breakout has done is illegal in this case, and i goes into many many issues here, whether they used contractor work who did this without their knowledge or their direct full time employees did it, it's all very hard to prove. Like wise if Breakout arena and Tarkov used photo scans of the models they will be insanely close to each other like what we see in the images.
The real kicker to me however is that Nikita is using the Ak-12 and Ar-15 specifically to prove plagiarism. The Ak-12 3d model is available on the Kalashnikov website and can be easily downloaded.
The Ar-15 has SOOO many CAD files and complete cad files to boot floating around the internet that they could have used the same CAD model as a reference and you would again get ridiculously close shapes between 2 models.
very hard, read impossible.
even if they had literal 1 to 1 copies of multiple in game models, there is LITERALLY NOTHING they could do about it. what, is a russian company going to sue a chinese one in a US or UK court? L O L. he is trying his hardest to keep the "true believers" on his side. they would not even be able to take them to court let alone prove it, even if it WAS true. MAYBE a US company suing another US company. and even then its questionable to prove without DIRECT 1 to 1 copies. all this speculation means nothing because nothing will come of it. as if "broke ass" BSG could even afford to go up against tencent at this point.
3d artists use others models as direct references CONSTANTLY, and the ones who dont are just bad. reminder that true believers are telling you you should not play the game that seems better in most ways because a contractor (ALLEGEDLY) used a tarkov model as reference. ignoring the fact that tarkov directly rips sounds and assets for other games and media at the same time. its just fanboyism and mr Buyanov stirring up shit because he knows he has real competition now.
@@mrrooter601 I use other models as reference, but i keep quiet about it.
I honestly don't play either game. I've only played tarkov for a very short while and it just causes me to want to throw my PC out the window, too aggravating, i don't need that in my life.
I am only here because the algorithm keeps recommending me these videos.
You are right about the other things, I didn't know breakout was tencent or chinese.
They have 0 ways of suing them even if they directly stole their models they'd only be able to sit and take it.
As 3d modeler/C# dev I can tell you that you can manually melt the triangles back into quads (not decimate).... I do it in C4d all the time... but it will require you to completely redo the UV map after that to match the texture file it is associated with. Not saying that it was done. Personally think its impractical and just modeling the item yourself from scratch would make for less headaches.
You sir are a scholar and a gentleman! Thank you for this, makes it easy to share this video with people who don't get it.
And you, sir, are easily manipulated. As a gamedev wep modeller, I can perfectly see what yellow guys did with BSG models. And if they weren't amateurs and tried a little more than that - then no one would notice it and this whole mess would have been avoided.
@@TehSnake586 well I've made no assumptions at all, for all we know Nikita could've whipped the yellows up himself.
But the explanation that eroktik has posted here is solid enough for a layman to understand.
So how about you re-evaluate what I've said now that I've spelled out for you what everyone else seemingly understood.
The moment you assume you make an ass out of u and me, put it on a shirt or tattoo it on your forehead, it'll help.
@@TehSnake586 well I've made no assumptions at all, for all we know Nikita could've whipped the yellows up himself.
But the explanation that eroktik has posted here is solid enough for a layman to understand.
So how about you re-evaluate what I've said now that I've spelled out for you what everyone else seemingly understood.
The moment you assume you make an ass out of u and me, put it on a shirt or tattoo it on your forehead, it'll help.
@@TehSnake586 well I've made no assumptions at all, for all we know Nikita could've whipped the yellows up himself.
But the explanation that eroktik has posted here is solid enough for a layman to understand.
So how about you re-evaluate what I've said now that I've spelled out for you what everyone else seemingly understood.
"The moment you assume you make an ass out of u and me", put it on a shirt or tattoo it on your forehead, it'll help.
@@HiddenBlade By thanking Eroktik you assumed that his point of view is correct, without asking real pro opinions. The one who shouts louder isn't always right. And stop being a smartass, cuz you're the one who belived a delusional clown blogger. I personally saw both of those models myself and can absolutely say that he is wrong, and the models were stolen and slightly reworked indeed. End of story.
The best way to put this is ABI and all of its assets are legally dubious. We all know where it all came from, whether it’s directly from EFT or been hand modified to be legally distinct from the EFT model. The health pool number, ammo damage numbers, reload animations, weapon textures, and audio. It’s all familiar but that doesn’t mean Nik can do anything about it.
I don't know about assets but Arena looks almost identical to Tarkov in every way.
So Arena looks almost identical to Stalker. Tarkov looks was never unique.
@@Felip.c Not really, Stalker looks very different from tarkov and Arena. The movement on stalker is garbage.
If you say so.
jesus christ, i guess every genre we cant have a new game. also extraction shooters are the new br, how the fuck are they supposed to make it this crazy unique game so you guys dont bitch. Tarkov is a stalker clone, abi is a tarkov clone, every game is a clone of another
Triangulation happens also with the position of vertices, since the BSG model does not show where the vertices are (but we are assuming everything is quad) we can't really be sure of how the triangulation is going to happen. To me, the biggest giveaway is from the "fighting" that happens between the models....when 2 faces are colliding to the exact same coordinates, that is called "fighting". In my eyes, as a 3d modeler, the chances of having multiple areas of fighiting is close to none, unless the model has been exported from the same source...i think that "they them" are using the same model as BSG with absolute certainty. Either way this is not a good show from BSG, makes them look desperate to find something to accuse "they/them" with but to no avail, the gamer will just game, intellectual property is not something that a customer will care about so i'm not sure why they are doing all of this....we see piracy everyday , but we don't see other big companies complain about games being cracked.
Of course this is just my opinion, being right or wrong is irrelevant to me.
But theres more factors missing? I studied and worked with CAD/CAM and im far away from an expert BUT wouldnt different engines translate quads differently? And wouldnt a simple chamfer affect the triangulations?
Yep
if a developer accuses other games of "copying" their game. thats just projecting. the amount of effort theyre doing for proving a myth should be put on fixing their own overpriced game.
Cooks only about the meshing, although that's just one part of modelling, where did the UV mapping & textures on that dong go from Onepeg's video, to me that was the most evident one, hope you can explain that as well.
Could probably be a third party texture file that both got. In C4D or Blender you can also just import texture files onto models. Maybe those are the same but who knows
He talks about the handgrip on his earlier video.
@@xavier2094 he's also a salty ass BSG hater. So I'll listen to the professional modelers who say it's statistically impossible for them to have the same models from different artists.
@@hotwings8973 He's a "BSG hater" for a good reason. He's also a professional modeler and he is also telling you that the models are different. At the end of the day, there are professionals on both sides of the argument and you aren't going to change your mind: You are only going to believe who you want to believe because it confirms your bias.
@@Jstraitedge he's clearly not a professional. He pulled in a random AK model then talked about how all games are triangles, but that's false. If you actually pull in the game models and compare them they are the same. Period. I couldn't care less if bsg went under. But I'm not gonna pretend that these people are not clearly stealing assets either. It's clear who has the bias and it's not me.
Good shout checking the triangulation, at first glance they are super similar.
I'm not convinced they haven't used the base meshes and welded up some of the verts. Yes working off tri meshes is a nightmare but iirc Maya's "to quad" operations is pretty good at resolving meshes like that. Decimation is also MUCH much mUUUUUUUCH better in Zbrush and even in maya than what blender's decimation modifier does.
You're probably right they retopoed over BSG's models if anything, but there's nothing stopping them grabbing some of the existing geo, reducing edges by strategically welding some of the triangles into neighbouring ones, I've done that many times on characters that didn't have a quad version anymore/ needed a dirty proxy mesh.
the grey dustcover has also a much bigger bevel with more topology than the yellow dust cover btw
Texture asset stimulatory with 1:1 pixel match is a huge give away that @onepeg showed in the AK foregrip - I'd be interested to seeing more of these comparisons from different assests. Someone could have manually optimised the BSG meshes (however time consuming that would be) to create lower poly meshes for engine speed. This "might" be slightly quicker than a original rebuild if your artist was a fast and good modeler, but it is still weird the fundamental structural vertices are identical positions (i.e trigger guard). But the fact that these assets can be extracted from the game, just shows you how easy it is to "RIP OFF" the geometry and textures. Another good comparison would be to compare the same AK from another shooter, I'm pretty convince there would be little similarity in the mesh apart from it modelling the same gun. (10yr computer game artist and 30yr 3D artist)
I dont know how the guy in the video is saying that Arena did not steal it with those evidence you talk about. I have been doing 3d since more than 10 years and to me, it looks like they just quickly use tarkov, collapse few edges and call it a day. I still would like to extract the game myself to be sure of the sources but from the screen it is telling
@@JanPatatoes The dude has 0 experience regarding game assets or anything related to that and the things he is saying just prove that. I have been modding extracted models from games for decades and I find all he is saying amusing at best. Even I made my own models using tarkov's as a reference because they are mid-poly and they can be used to bake textures onto a new mesh in like hours if not minutes.
The only real thing I can see here is the screw at 11:09 where the one on the left is more flat while the right is more rounded. They could've used the same or similar reference material. It still doesn't prove anything was stolen.
"They could've used the same or similar reference material" Yes, they did, it's called a BLUEPRINT. Those models are literally based on IRL guns.
@@Kalergi_Plan_Accelerationist I keep saying this without having any knowledge of the tech. If 2 people are modeling a real-life item, shouldn't they look the same no matter who scans the item? It's not an apple. All apples look a little different but a mass-produced item like a gun is going to look the same no matter what.
@@Kalergi_Plan_Accelerationist You don't say. fml. We're talking about the screw. Not the whole gun. The screw is basically the smoking gun that it's not ripped from Tarkov.
@@orlfane1622 Yes. This is what I said. Maybe I phrased it poorly. I was saying that the major thing showing that it's not ripped from Tarkov is the screw (ignoring the poligon differences)
As a failed map designer I must say that the gun shaped map is not in Tarkovsky indeed
youre not a filure, its just and obsticle that was not overcomed yet, have a good day.
@@nknumero I appreciate the kind words, maybe one day i'll be able to put my creations into an actual project, and find the motivation to actually make more
Nikita wants to point out similarity but he failed hard Geometry class that can't even see lines don't match.
why is he trying to convince me that this two exact models are different
Bro Im happy I find your channel. I love that you are actually educated on the subject and have logical views on it as well instead of just blindly believing what everyone else is saying. You earned my sub, keep up the good work!
hate to say it but you are wrong on the triangulation angle. it is a astronomical coincidence to non-quad surface has same vertices to be in same locations in two different models. because these are not solid models these are mesh models, measurement argument also falls flat.
gotta ask nikita though how did he come across other developers models?? did he steal their meshes from the game just to compare?
It's called drama baiting
People need to know that making replica game is not like making a replica watch or t-shirt. It would take way more effort and time for them to take the assets from them and put them into ABI
They did not model a new one using Tarkov as reference, most likely they modified the Tarkov meshes to their standarts. Actually pretty common in the industry, my previous lead provided me with the ripped models from the World of guns on steam, so i will modify them and produce models for their game
There is idiot Streamers out there who's only claim to fame is been able to play a game and they are posting Nikita's stuff claiming its 100% stolen as if they are 3D software experts but not backing anything up, its just Nikita is balls deep in them and they love him so much they will regurgitate anything he says. So thankyou for actually going through this and explaining to us how this all works.
I agree with you that it is not a direct copy but definitely a reference from the Tarkov model. Looking at Onepeg's video looking at the texture of the wood handguard, it has the same scratch texture with slight modifications.
i am the one that found out that handguard lol.
Brilliant observations, you have a keen eye for detail, not to mention an excellent working knowledge of 3-D Modeling.
might be worth checking out the stuff mentioned by the other modelers in the community. id be interested to see what you have to say about their particular points. this is super educational and clarifying though. im just interested in the non-nikita related stuff from other players and community members.
the grey rearsight also has bevelled edges, the yellow one does not have bevelled edges
It's more likely the case that it isn't stolen. However mesh that looks THAT close is really fishy. I've been working for 12 nearly 13 years in the 3d industry. You could tell everyone you work with or every student to build an ak 3d model and nothing would look even close to each other essentially. Could be because they used softwares other than blender with more precise triangulation & polycount reduction if they nicked it, and just reduced the polycount for their mobile game originally. A single Modifier in 3DS Max (when I last used it about 7 years ago) could make results like this. But there is also a high chance that both companies used the exact same reference to model the same AK. Presuming they didn't buy it that is. I know I am counter-dicting myself here but hopefully you get my point. I do not think it's stolen personally. This is because if I were to nick it, I'd use the 3ds max I remember and if not then unreal engine to give it a full remesh while still being able to save the UVW's so you would not be able to tell. It's quite literally the click of a button. In my old (apparently top rated) school specialized in 3d, they used to teach is to always steal whenever possible. Kinda funny when it gets suspected of happening though. :D
can you replicate what abi did from tarkov base mesh?
Or the arena breakout team has more resources and more references to pull from to make their models
I'd still want to have actual proof rather than a salty dev complaining
Bro is going to get sued himself
@@Eroktic from the screenshots we have seen, yes. Within minutes you could turn the EFT mesh into the yellow mesh.
@@Eroktic From what I remember which is vague, Yes. I know that's not much to go on though, apologies. :) But it would likely look different somewhat. From what I remember, in this case I would quadify the mesh to 100% then triangulate it by 5% and follow selections, to re-create the exact same yellow model shown. This will however affect the UVW's to a certain extent. Could possibly be fixed by a skilled unwrapper which is WAAAAAAAY out of my league. I keep editing this reply due to spelling mistakes. Can recommend beer after work, kids. :D
@@LUCAS420BLZ Yea true.
Even if were (for being Chinese) they are doing better
To be fair the meshes are already triangulated in the 3d software by default. The gpu works with triangles so basically is already triangulated under the hood. 3d artists work in quads because it makes their life easier to execute some "tecqniques" such as uv mapping and stuff like that. But for the gpu, they are already triangles.
Graphics cards are programmed with triangular math, meaning graphics cards can only understand drawing triangles and are extremely good at that one thing. Game engines use triangles as well because it saves compile time by skipping the conversion on compile. They do that, because triangle is the simplest geometric area with which you can represent 3D space.
I thought the same thing, "they" most likely used the BSG model as a reference.
I'm not sure if that would count as tracing or something though
no they used a real model as reference exactly like bsg did
Probably traced to cut costs.
Stealing is illegal but copying isn't, though it is frowned upon. But hey knowing how they run sweatshops if it cuts costs might as well go with the free route.
I mean you can't definitively prove that they ripped the assets off of Tarkov to copy them based on the models.
But you can speculate that they did...which is not enough sometimes in court.
At the end of the day it's BSG using the court of public opinion as bullets to fire at ABI.
Why do we even care? We're just consumers.
(Well unless you payed $250 for Unheard you can care as much as you want I guess)
Why would they? U can just use blueprints and have everything perfectly detailed. Every nut, a dent, spring etc.
In video games you have LODS it could be a LOD export from engine and not original source, also they might have needed to optimise the guns to run better in game which would be removing detials like you have pointed out...
I am learning Blender rn and this was very cool insight into the situation. thank you.
Guys how u explain that everything look the same except the mesh cause apparently u need a vertex/edge/face identical mesh to be sure ?
At this point you're ready to use any argument against bsg even the stupidest one. The conversion from Quad to Tri is trivial. You just cut in half every quad. There are only 2 way to convert a single quad into a tri. Tris are just quad divided by two.
But sytematically converting back to the same quad is actually impossible. You need to know exactly whats pairs of tris you need to select everytime.
Even the wear pattern are exactly the same on some handle. You hate bsg maybe for a good reason , but acting stupid like that is only detrimental to you
YoU jUsT cUt In eVeRy qUaD
That was really good explained! Great work! 💪
Anyone with some firearm and 3d modeling knowledge would easily tell you that these are stolen assets, AKA Nikita. The way battle state models their weapons they use REAL reference firearms, and with the AK platform rifles not one rifle would be able to be this exact to make a model so similar. The tolerances on these rifles for some parts are too wide for this to even seem like a possibility of Arena Breakout being innocent. Arena Breakout Clearly stole the EFT assets, it looks like they might have remodeled some, and others are just straight up rips. Anyone who is defending Arena Breakout or putting any doubt on whether they are stolen just lacks the knowledge to know otherwise.
tarkov bots do not watch the video
@@Eroktic What do you mean?
You make a good point. The models could be really well done copies. Do you think this why the animations are so very similar as well? The side by side animations on many of the reloads, such as the M4, P90, and AK platforms are identical, with what I believe to be very minor changes to try to make them seem different. Curious to hear your opinion.
I am not animator, but after this i have a wild guess what it can be...
For all we know there could be a person who is not doing stuff "in-house" as Nikita might want to believe. Wouldn't be surprised if some intern is grabbing models and animations from places and passing them as done by themselves.
I'm so glad people are starting to notice your videos and that your work is paying off.
Here's an alternative perspective, I dont care if its stolen or borrowed. If you put a 3D asset into the wild, expect it to be stolen. Just ask the 3D2A community.
wut is 3d2a?
@@shiro3146 the guys who design digital assets to bring into the real world
This video has to be the best thing to come out of the controversy so far. I wanna learn more about 3d modeling from this guy
honestly its really up to kalashnikov concern and Russian and uk law to figure out that happened as the game might not have had the rights to use the gun but only the name and then did a copy of the correct model from a different game
I feel like they may have snapped the vertices to 'copy' the model in that way.
If it is 1:1 in some areas, or many areas they could save a lot of time and effort snapping vertices to the other model as a lattice. Like a painter taking someone else's composition and colour palette, the hard thought work is already done but to put the brush work in.
Some things would take a lot of time and be nonsensical but Eroktic I think you underestimate the labour others will take.
If they understand what they need to do and it takes a long time they will do it because it is just work.
They will not do the innovative or creative thing to conjure a solution to do things more efficiently or quickly.
I've heard of horror stories of old co-workers going to the companies' studio in India to help speed things along to train them and work was being done in such a way that it was nonsensical like doing things manually that take 5-10 times longer when the studio developed propriety tools that they can just press a button which was the whole reason their branch in India was setup, to just get sent a lot of menial small tasks to use that tool and clean up and send back to NA so the main team can do the main work quicker.
I agree with you on everything else but that, they probably did the 'smart' thing to do if they copied by using the models as a base and changing the homework to not be completely the same which if following stereotype 90% of the R&D and work is done by others and they sell the copies.
If Nikita does release the vertex coordinates there will probably be some exact matches, but only some and only on one or two planes but the sequence may be out of order, the hard work is done but it is easy to make it not exact.
Nikita admitted to actually taking the 3D work of others a long time ago when they were starting out while these seem to be copies so it is ironic they complain now to have it done to them.
People are saying decimate modifier because they watched onepeg's stupid ass video where he just talks out his ass about stuff he has no idea about. The second he said OH ITS BECAUSE THEY USED THE DECIMATE MODIFIER i just started laughing my ass off because you instantly knew he had no idea what the hell he was talking about.
homie is strapped for cash after losing the tarkov income. shame hes milking it by spreading ignorance.
Dude, with all respect, I have been modeling for 15 years and I disagree. Of course, I didn't search the models by myself so I dont know where it come from or if nikita is straight up lying, but there is a lot of good explanation to why there is those little differences. On some of the screenshot you show, there is literally edges that are exactly the same, especially at 10.24.
There is no way it can be done by two different people even if they try to produce the same realistic gun.
You talk about decimation but 1. blender is doing a shit job at it 2. it can be done manually. Come on man, those are the same edge ring with few loops removed or collapsed. I can have the same result from left to right in maybe 5 minutes ...
Again, I dont know where those models come from, but if one is bsg and the other is arena, those example here are WAY too similar to be made by two artist on different games. Go and take any other game that have those weapon and you will see how different a wireframe can actually be
Good video, learned a lot. After watching onepeg say the dust covers in the 1:19 tweet are both ABI models and not even in Tarkov (It's a match! :D), i think its clear Nikita is trying to use lies and propaganda to mobilize a troll army to do his dirty work for him. And ultimately it will backfire because all he's doing is advertising ABI to his entire playerbase as something 1:1 equivalent-or-better. This is not going to end well for him xD
Thank you for the detailed info. This is awesome stuff. I'm in a trade and I was able to see and understand all of this clearly. Awesome job brother.
Sadly this will be enough for those 'true believers', and the reality of the nonsense and lies Nikita is spreading will remain 'unheard'!
there are a lot of model designers that are in ABI, you can untriangulate a mesh by hand even if it takes time, which they have a lot of. think with your brain. and that vertex idea wouldn't work because if the model is moved even a tiny bit it would change the location of all the vertices making that idea useless.
you have absolute no idea what you are talking about
@@Eroktic can you elaborate? any why are your opinions so heavily biased towards ABI, you probably have thousands of hours in tarkov, why change your opinion so quickly.
Nikita isnt even paying for licenses on ANYTHING. So if their shit gets stolen who cares? its stolen in the first place LMAO
Arena Breakout has been in the mobile space for 2 years where was BSG at the time if they are so sure and angry that somebody stolen their assets ? Sure the mobile version and the PC version are not the same but are you telling me they re made the same guns they have in the mobile instead of just polishing them ? I kinda doubt that. Nikita is Pis**** and shi***** on the floor becouse ABI is doing Great and he knows that if when the game release to the public the tarkov numbers will go down eaven more, the Tencent juggernaut is on the move and he is coming for them and there is nothing they can do to stop it . Yes they can wipe but many will not go back and many will stay only for 20 min.
PS. the player pop is still present in SPT by the way
PSS 10 min max queue time and 25 min raid time for coop no thanks you can keep it homie
Good video man keep it up
How tf do i know to make gun models now☠️?
I literaly only enterd blend like 3 times max
Nikita be shaking in his boots every time Eroktic drops a video.
as a 7 year professional 3d artist, it hurts my brain that people think using the decimate modifier fixes the mesh XD
Very interesting and informative. When I see that, I understand there is no point I try to figure out what is stealing an asset or not with my 0 knowledge. I thought Nikita gave a clear evidence of a ripoff but now I see I can't trust anyone since I don't know what a solid evidence is....
Nikitina Bulja se sve više i više širi.
Će mu ga nabije TenCent lol 😂
This wouldn't be the first time Nikita lied
I feel like Eroktic has ascended to a triangle after this video, all praise the big triangulation!
I love you Eroktic ❤️🙏🏼 Thank you for content!
damn, imagine my shock that actual real life objects look the same when turned into 3D!
eroktic please go over tarkov using sounds from insurgency 2014 and baatlefield 4, especially the hit sounds and flare gun firing sound
My man doesn't know that different 3d software and game engines use different triangulation logic, its fully reversable if you use the same program it was triangulated by, you even showed that when you triangulated the cube.
Showing that converting tri's to quad's in blender "breaks the model" assumes firstly that nothing has been manually converted to tri's to enforce direction by the BSG devs (they have) and that the model itself was fully converted to tri's in blender prior to being exported to Unity (you can see in the screenshots from BSG, they have not been).
If you're going to sit on the internet and say stuff like "Its insane I have to teach you all how triangulation works" at the very least please get it right.
Please provide me documentation of this or any kind of examples. I can't find your method on the internet. It's ungoogleable.
EDIT: with your logic, tris to quad should work on ak in blender just like I've shown in the video, but it does not.
its easy to unpack the tarkov files and extract all items, and its just as easy to model on top of them to make your own models as shown in the video.... you will save tons of work time in 3d dept. and its not 1:1 copy as there is work involved, but its 1/10th of the time than making same model from scratch depeing on the complexity of the model
lol no, another file had tarkov stolen texture's that were 100% made by battlestate which is the smoking gun anyone can see... but also you can EASILY change poly count and type within SECONDS and with quick googling, not like its even a hidden aspect of blinder. if you don't know what the Decimate modifier is or what it dose, it can make a high poly gun (tarkov) into a crap mobile game poly count (arena breakout)
also two BIG SUS things, tarkov and arena is 1 to 1 game... its sooooo unlikely it makes dream look like a legit Minecraft player. I'm talking all the assets, player models, worlds geometry, almost everything is a 1 TO 1 or being pixels small... but why small and not bigger.... because they use decimate tool... decimate has the side effect of reducing volume/surface area and do everything you CLAIM in the video within seconds (that how easily wrong this video is)
how hard is it for your ego to accept that this is a stolen asset and texture flip game FROM A CHINESE company own by TenCent who is know to own dozens of asset flip companies that make asset flip games under tencent (also what is a Russian company going to do against a Chinese company... lol nothing sadly); also you don't know anything about blinder... if you never use decimate
before you even think or breath it, yes you can take unity assets and textures into blinder
Source trust me bro
It's called Blender not blinder you goober.
Do you really think any one will belive this shit when you don't even know the name of the most used 3d softwar?
Love it when someone who ACTUALLY has experience in the industry makes a video about a controversial topic like this instead of just regurgitating the same propaganda.
I was thinking if you could get all the x,y coords in a data program you can correlate them.
This whole drama has been wild, entertaining and educational. what more could we want?
i told u - they used tarkov model as skeleton to build own model (maybe) we do not know but it explain that mesh is similar but topology is diffrent
I appreciate you actually showing information and teaching, rather than the bs that other ppl do
Nikita is more concerned about a game that is actually good rather than making his game good.
So decimate is only useful when you want to create a model with a low LOD one to save GPU performance, so just doing decimate would make it fucking ugly and is not an option when it's upclose to the player.
People use decimate where topology does not matter when you will be remeshing anyways. In our case, topology is everything and should not be decimated