Just pointing out, why completely build a new Sox stadium? Just de-convert half (or more) of the parking lots into residential and business districts. You have the red and green lines, as well as the Metra, right there. You have pretty vibrant neighborhoods around there to support them, with Bridgeport to the west and north. You have IIT and Bronzeville to the east. The problem with the new stadium has never been the location, it was the attempt to have the acres upon acres of parking lots. And the city doesn't need to pour money into the stadium, it can be fixed by just selling the lots.
100% agree but also who wants to go to a game when the Sox suck 90% of the time. They think the location is an issue. It is the disinvestment in the team.
The MCG in Melbourne holds 100,000 people and there is no parking. How do we do it? Put the stadium right between two of the busiest train stations in the country.
@@JohnFromAccounting What MCG did makes logical, structural, and economic sense. However, especially after WWII, America has been conditioned to drive everywhere just to live their daily lives, which means an overabundance of expressways, freeways, parking lots, and suburban sprawl, and underfunding and underutilization of public transit, much of it for reasons unique to American history (think race relations).
I live a 30 minute walk away from Wrigley Field, and while the neighborhood can be pretty trashy, I would much rather live in Wrigleyville than 90% of the country
@@mayday14-88 No while its north of downtown its just a neighborhood of the city. Not even the one of the northernmost neighborhoods eithers by a long shot.
It's because people want it that way. Look at the public opinion of Wrigley Field here in Chicago, people hate it. Not the stadium itself, but the effect it has on traffic and transit in the city. On a game day, big crowds and lots of activity form outside the stadium, and the red line gets super busy. Everyone hates it and complains about it.
The Rays are currently pulling the same card, "we'll leave if you don't pay for our stadium". Their mock-ups and promises say that they'll build a vibrant and inclusive mixed-use development around the stadium, but the written deal itself allows them to get out of building anything beneficial to the city.
The city of Cleveland has the Art Modell law that will try and prevent a team from doing something like this. Right now the browns are trying to figure out a stadium change and there's talks of moving the stadium out of downtown Cleveland to a neighboring suburb.
@@reesejabs1895 As a Rays fan I wouldn't mind that, but MLB is never going to put a team here for a number of reasons. I also wouldn't want our government subsidizing another godd*mned stadium in this city. We're already giving half a billion to the Titans to replace a 20 year old stadium
Yah the claim that stadiums add so much to the surrounding area is kinda bullshit. They do bring some buisness but they also bring a bunch of traffic disruption and general annoyance. And it's not like a convention center that plausibly pulls in tourists from out of the city. Indeed, it's not even clear to me that stadiums are beneficial to the city at large at all -- and certainly not more than what else could be done with that money.
It’s not like these stadiums bring tens of thousands of people to the area, tens of thousands of people who eat and buy merchandise in the area. Yeah, it can be seen as a nuisance for residents, but it’s an enormous contributor to the local economy. And for the local residents- I can guarantee that none of them were alive, let alone moved in before the stadium was built- meaning they knew exactly what they were getting into. Yeah, it’s a private business, but it created an entire economy around it, and thousands of people rely on its existence.
It baffles me why a city would help build a stadium, especially when it is surrounded by parking lots. It is like saying, “We are willing to spend millions of dollars for the worst possible value.”
Because voters aren't well informed and they have a strong emotional connection to sports teams (as do the politicians). Which would you prefer to be -- the politician who can point to the giant fancy stadium you built or the responsible politician who gets voted out because you get blamed for letting the beloved local team leave.
The team will often charge a fortune for a parking spot, so clubs can milk the supporter for double the money. I think that’s solely why the Panthers have been tempted to move out of Charlotte.
@@TheWadgeIn the case of Oakland, those teams didn’t even need parking. A great regional train system stops right at the stadium complex. Who wants to sit in traffic with tens of thousands of people before and after a game?
I've been saying, as a Southsider and resident of the southwest suburbs, that the simplest way for the White Sox to boost attendance would be to build a Metra stop west of the field where the Southwest Service line runs. That's a lot more economical than building a new stadium and they would have fans from Manhattan, Orland Park, Palos, Oak Lawn, etc... that would be able to easily get to the stadium for $10 round trip, could responsibly have that extra beer and with bathrooms on board the train you're not racing on the Dan Ryan to get to a safe bathroom once all that pop catches up with you. They could then remove some of the parking lots to enhance the neighborhood and surrounding area. That being said, I believe Metra is working on moving the Southwest Service line to use the Rock Island line which stops at 35th - Lou John's just east of the field. Perhaps the White Sox should hold off on their new stadium plans until that happens so they can see what attendance looks like once 130,000+ people have an easier time getting to games.
As a NWI Sox fan, I wish I could get to Sox park from the south shore line - it’s only feasible by backtracking from the loop to a red line stop and it runs infrequently enough to make driving just a way less frustrating experience. I do have this option with Bears games but again the SSL is infrequent enough that I’ve more than once been faced with the choice of leaving in the middle of the fourth quarter or waiting an hour and a half for the next train. Chicago baseball is in a weird spot. The park with better food is also the one with tons of parking space for tailgating 🙃 and the team with a larger proportion of fans from downstate/out of state has so little parking you opt to find a $50 Driveway on SpotHero.
I've been to Chicago numerous times and I go to Tigers/Sox games because I'm a Tigers fan and it's always baffled me that the two lines stopping at/near the Sox stadium are Red/Green and there's basically no public transit access for anyone southwest of the stadium in any meaningful way with the exception of the few that might live off the ass-end of the green line. Having been to several stadiums, Guaranteed Rate just seems like the most generic car-centric stadium that could be in any city just like Stuart said. Given how they've already bilked the city once out of a bunch of money for no return, I can't blame the city for being hesitant to let them do it again.
@@KevinPassino there is a train that goes to Joliet. However there IS another metra train that goes right next door to the stadium, even closer than the current metra stop that survives other suburbs... It should have a stop!!
"Pay for our billion dollar home, taxpayers, because we don't like the last one you paid for anymore or we'll go somewhere else" is a disgusting mentality sports teams have.
I'm a Mets fan, and while I enjoy the team playing in Queens, it'll always be true that one of the many sins committed by Robert Moses as planner of NYC in the 50s-60s was his insistence that a new ballpark be built off a highway and surrounded by parking lots, instead of the old jewel box style neighborhood-integrated parks that were lost when the Polo Grounds and Ebbets Field were torn down. I know they're planning to build an "entertainment district" and park around Citi Field now, but man, what I'd give for an authentic neighborhood surrounding the ballpark ala Wrigleyville.
There is nothing better than walking out of Wrigley after a cubs win and every bar is packed blasting go cubs go. It is a huge surge in local economy because it’s a family vibe. Teams should replicate because it’s not just the cubs I love, it’s everything to do with going to a game
@@excalipoor It’ll be right across the street from Citi Field, so it still won’t exactly be a “neighborhood stadium”, unfortunately, given that Main Street is still around a mile plus walk away.
Newyorkers have the Yankee stadium as a shining beacon of integration between stadium and city. And remember the Yankee Stadium is not old, but a replacement of an old one, done right. (The original Yankee Stadium wa made into a park.)
@@thevikingbear2343 Ehhhh...only to a point. It's nowhere near as integrated, it and the old stadium were too big for that, and there's a lot of empty space and/or major roads surrounding it.
I think the commercial area around Wrigley Field is also a huge part of what makes the area work. Clark and Addison street are chock-full of bars, restaurants, and shops that are packed throughout the year, even when the Cubs aren't playing. And the owners of Wrigley field are quite creative about using the field during the baseball off-season to make still make it a revenue source. Every winter they have a Christmas carnival on the field, and they've been hosting outdoor hockey games for decades.
While this is true, Wrigley Field is pretty widely hated here in Chicago. It's silly if you ask me, but people don't like the way the stadium is right in the middle of the neighborhood because they say it causes crowds and messes up traffic and makes transit even more of a mess than it already is. Why do you think Sox Park and the UC are the way they are? Removed from the community, surrounded by parking lots or industrial buildings. It's because people WANT it that way.
@@BlackVelvetDaydreamI disagree. They know in Wrigleyville that they are by a National Landmark and the higher tier landmark national one as of 2020. Most knew what was what when they moved nearby. The Bro's clearly do not mind. This arra within Lakeview and Lincoln Park areas, are top costliest besides core areas of downtown. Even Southside Sox fans, do not hate the legacy of Wrigley. Plenty of areas away from it to move.
@@michalw5246 I generally don't drive a car in the city but it's becoming more and more necessary with how godawful CTA is. I can't even ride the green line into the Loop without some idiot lighting a cigarette and exhaling smoke in my face, or someone spitting on the floor constantly.
I think the Sox should build an entertainment district over the parking lots. it would make things look weird, but use that large open air for entertainment purposes. throw in some apartments and they have more revenue coming in.
I'm a systems admin for my local minor league baseball stadium, in a greater city area of ~250k people. It was moved to downtown in 2019, as a central part of a broader revitalization effort, with a new $55M ballpark (a public/private split, like usual). The difference that I feel has made it much more palatable to nearby residents, is that it's open to the public year-round to enjoy its walking spaces, vendors, and playgrounds. It was named _Ballpark of the Year_ in 2022, and the impact on our downtown spaces has been dramatic, immediate, and overwhelmingly positive. Obviously, long-term upkeep will be crucial, but it's not difficult to see that it will absolutely bring in enough economic activity to justify the initial costs. Like with most public projects, the devil's in the details, and long-term execution will determine the true value of the new park. Coincidentally, the team is a double-A affiliate of the Chicago White Sox, so I have to engage with my nerd counterparts at Wrigley Field from time to time.
@@stewarthicks Thanks for taking the time to read my comment! I really enjoyed the video, and all of your material, I have been subscribed for a long time. I actually typed this out over a week ago, I saw this on Nebula and figured it’d eventually come up here. Some additional context: I can’t overstate how radical the downtown area has transformed, with the sports complex and other initiatives to encourage new businesses to set up. Our town was previously a textile mill town, and it was an economic desert for nearly two decades after the mill closed in 1999. Now, there are dozens of new (mostly independent) restaurants, bars, retailers, and residential projects. Any evening when the weather is nice, the sidewalks that were once home to weeds, and little else, are now crowded with local families and bubbling with activity. The ballpark is central to everything, and rather than locking the gates between events, and effectively presenting a barrier, the open park provides convenient routes to different areas, and creates a lot of opportunities for displaying local arts and commerce. During COVID-19 we partitioned the outdoor stands to allow for generous distancing, setup the large digital scoreboard as a movie screen, and held movie nights for families who were otherwise deprived of such activities. Ahead of the seasons, we host local college and high-school team games. The effort that has been extended by the city and the team to embed the ballpark into the wider community was an inspired choice that has helped make the construction of the facility, which is a frequently controversial endeavor for cities, an indisputable win for the city and its residents. If you’re ever in the greater Charlotte, NC area in the summertime, come see the Kannapolis Cannon Ballers!
this is a great plan. I'm from a soccer nation but this is basically what Allianz Arena in Munich did. They have a literal shopping mall inside the stadium, place is open year round and it's still one of the best stadiums in the world 18 years after it opened.
Right and what's stopping from him repeating the same idiotic choices. he could quite easily build a new stadium where the old stadium resides and tear down the current stadium, torn out the lots, and build an entire entertainment district right there. then again i'm thinking with more common sense than greed
Fenway park has a very similar relationship to it’s surrounding area in Boston to wrigleyville. The Fenway area has exploded with nightlife, businesses and residential and office development and is unquestionably urbanist (there is more parking around the stadium than at Wrigley, but it doesn’t feel like it surrounds Fenway the way it does at Guaranteed Rate). And Fenway still has pretty direct highway access too
Wrigley also offers a free bicycle valet service. After getting used to that, driving to a stadium feels especially insane. Just left Wrigley before seeing this video actually. It really is a special place.
It is a special place, but it's also a very hated place. People in Chicago always complain that Wrigley Field's location messes up traffic, causes crowds, and makes public transit even more of a mess than it already is. It's why stadiums like the UC or Sox Park are the way they are; people want it that way.
You should consider doing a video on the Caesar's Superdome in New Orleans. While most other NFL teams are building brand new, monstrosities of stadiums, New Orleans continues to renovate the Superdome, which has saved countless millions and ensures that the Superdome will be relevant for years to come. The Superbowl will be in New Orleans this year. Also, the Superdome is so well strategically placed for fan access, being at the far end of the Central Business disctrict, with the historic streetcar lines running from the area around the Superdome to the river. The fan experience is second to none. I haven't seen a well made video from a channel such as yours discussing the Superdome.
Another team not changing stadiums and instead upgrading are the Green Bay Packers. They’ve been at Lambeau Field since 1957. They’ll probably be the last outdoor stadium in the NFL & no one is phased by that. People love their stadium and it’s the only stadium that should be publicly funded since it’s a publicly held team. To me, as a football fan, Lambeau feels like football’s Wrigley Field or Fenway Park.
You could do a whole video on how stadium design philosophies have changed over the years (Including the dreaded "multipuropse stadium"). We are now in the "stadium land is valuable real estate, so owners want to make them retail and hospitality destinations" phase of design.
Petco park in San Diego integrates nicely with downtown as well. There’s a cute little park on the outside grounds that is accessible when games aren’t being played.
The ironic thing is every city did have a Wrigley Field. All of the Jewelbox ballparks were well integrated into the neighborhood. Now Fenway is the only other one left. The idea of trying to give new ballparks a classic retro feel and incorporate them into some kind of development area, is really an attempt to bring back what was lost with the concrete donut cookie cutters.
@@georgehenan853 Not true. Boston=Fenway. Brooklyn=Ebbett's. Chicago=Wrigley/Comiskey. Cincinnati=Crosley. Detroit=Tiger. NY=Polo/Yankee. Philly=Shibe. Pittsburgh=Forbes. St. Louis=Sportsman's. Washington=Griffiths. And that doesn't include more modern-day parks like Camden, Petco, etc., or neighborhood parks like Memorial. Lots of places had them prior to the 50s-70s.
@@jtsholtod.79 that’s a bunch of cities in the east and especially the northeast. There’s a lot more cities in the us than that. Most cities outside of the northeast quadrant of the country lacked jewel box ballparks. Modern retro classic ballparks only aesthetically resemble jewel box parks. They don’t actually count.
💕 I love living next to The Wrigley Field. 💕 Yet, I would love to see the whole area get redesigned for pedestrians ONLY all yearlong. Fans & visitors can ride the red line or designated busses from & to miles away parking lots.
@DavisWorthington I’ve looked over the statistics and Chicago is a fairly avg city when it comes to crime. Chicago is avg the other cities that were on the list that were a little higher than Chicago were St Louis no shock there Orlando, and Minneapolis. The statistics show that there were more car related deaths than homicides and the good news is that the homicide rates are on the a slow decline and let’s face it we are not going to get 4 Million people to get along. Crime and homicides are always going to be prevalent in a city as large as Chicago.
@@plasmaboy2265Chicago is terrible. Compare Chicago to the other largest cities in the country, not the small violent ones. New York-4 times the population, half the murders. La-larger population, half the murders. Houston-similar population, known for being a violent city, not as violent as Chicago
LOL you guys are absolutely delusional 🤣 Absolutely nobody wants to walk to a sports game. This is why you urbanists spend all your time on YT and not in real life xD
My husband and I lived two blocks from Wrigley before they won the World Series. The changes have been INSANE but I’m glad it’s still very walkable. We visit the area occasionally still, and love the Christmas market!
The thing is, even though it's walkable, nobody walks it. Wrigley Field is very accessible via transit but nobody takes it. Everybody drives to a Cubs game, nobody takes the train or bus.
The point you made about how Wrigley Field and Wrigleyville changed together slowly is key. People are forgetting the Cubs for decades were the “lovable losers” and stayed in Wrigley Field because they couldn’t afford to go elsewhere and barely renovated the park. Also, it took a billionaire family to buy up most of what surrounds the stadium and the team to get where it is today. The area is DRASTICALLY different from what it was even 10 years ago.
I was a kid that hated anything related to math, physics and construction. But since last year that I found your channel, I really did falling in love with all of this 3 topics, I wish you were my teacher when I was in school. Really informative video, lots of detail and information giving with soft voice which makes it more interesting and fun to listen. My English is not good so in one word your channel is *"perfect"* Thank you for hard work Mr. Hicks
If you ever do an update on this,maybe you could include the background on UK and European football/soccer stadiums. Most of them were built around the late 1880s-1910s in the working class neighborhoods where the teams started. Most people used street cars and trolleys so to this day just walk or take public transit from their blocks to the stands. Newer renovations do have vast parking lots nearby but they don't compromise the area's entertainment centers.
The Padre's Petco Park is probably the closest I can think of to a stadium being set in the heart of a neighborhood in a downtown major city. It has a lot of residential buildings, but also has the gas lamp district right by it and the area remains vibrant even when games are not occuring
In Toronto, the Skydome was built on former rail lands, meaning the government was required to be involved. Yes, Rogers bought out the building in 2004 at a fraction of the cost but Rogers, the city, and the local developers worked together in building CityPlace, and now Rogers Centre is nestled in between the CN Tower, the rail approach to Union Station, and a whole host of condo and other developments. Also don’t forget the hotel built into the ballpark. It’s a place that provides value to a reclaimed part of town all year. That incremental change was key to making Rogers Centre and CityPlace what it is now.
Here in Australia we have similar issues with car-centric infrastructure, however one thing we do get right is our sports stadiums. Go look up pictures of the Melbourne Cricket Ground, Adelaide Oval, Docklands Stadium, the Sydney Cricket Ground, The Gabba. Theyre all located centrally in the city centre with lots of public transport, and often surround by parklands and gardens.
Small caveat--I live in the North Center neighborhood, and if you walk down Irving Park Road, you see a lot of parking lots for Cubs games hidden away in old industrial areas. Attendees take the bus or train, which is great. The same is true for some other neighborhoods away from Wrigley. So while I love that the stadium is fully integrated with its neighborhood, in reality, there's a lot of parking infrastructure backing it up. It's just outside of Wrigleyville.
Most people still drive to Cubs games. The only people who take the bus or train are those who decide to pregame because they don't want to pay for overpriced beer at the stadium, so they get tanked before game time and ride either the bus or the CTA red line. Everyone else just drives, which is why Wrigley Field causes such terrible traffic jams and why everyone hates it.
I might suggest that you check out the Detroit Lions/Tigers/Pistons/Red Wings Stadiums. They are all within walking distance of each other and they are surrounded by homes & schools & businesses.
no not really, they're still surrounded by a lot of parking, it just so happens to be that all 3 basically share the same parking lots, limiting the bleeding. We're still waiting all sorts of mixed use developments that were supposed to come with LCA.
As someone who saw the Pistons play at the Palace, the experience was FAR BETTER than attending a Tigers game downtown! Since I don't live in the city, I have absolutely no interest in walking. It would also be interesting to see what percentage of fans attending games actually live within the city limits (not even just reasonable walking distance in say December or January). That's the other half of this argument that should be discussed. If I have to drive home, I can't sit in a bar near the stadium and get hammered - which I think the city leadership actually seems to want me to do!
@@commentinglife6175 -- I lived about a mile away from the Palace & my mom worked there so I watched all the Playoff games with the "Bad Boys" at work. It was alright. Only ONE bar opened in that area - There was no where to go but home after the games. That was a frustrating situation. It was surrounded by M-24 & I-75 so walking ANYWHERE was not happening. At least with the Arenas downtown one can walk places. Greektown is right down Broadway along with the DSO & the Fox within spitting distance. I think you would benefit from exploring down there on occasion. I am NOT saying it is perfect but it is Leaps & Bounds better than what it was .
@commentinglife6175 but with the Palace, EVERYONE had to drive home and there were no bars within convenient walking distance. If you didn't have the premium parking pass, would you rather walk back along Lapeer Rd or Woodward? LCA is way better in this regard that it is close to both rail lines, multiple bus lines, within walking distance to a huge number of hotels and some people do live close enough to get there without a car. And the amount of people needing parking would be even further reduced if the Illitch family had kept their promises.
@@johnnyonthespot4375 That's my point - who needs a bar after a game? I'm spending so much on tickets that I want to attend the game and then go home! I readily admit I could be the outlier, but I doubt it. Wouldn't it be great if that was part of this discussion? Force the team owner to survey the fans who actually attend (and those who would attend but for a stadium being downtown) and ask? Of course, we also have to then consider the hidden costs of the bars that folks love to gloss over: what do the drunks do afterwards? Does the stadium downtown contribute more or less to drunk driving and other illegal drunken behavior? It is a much wider issue for public policy than just "Should the stadium be here."
One great example of a Wrigley Field like stadium is Petco Park in San Diego. The stadium is beautiful, in the middle of the city, you have a lot of bars, housing, offices and even public transit (not a subway, but hey it’s transit). Doesn’t have the charm of Wrigleyville, but it’s a great place to see a ballgame. About the public funding, as a foreigner, it always crazy to me that the US is the land of the private land, but when billionaire teams need a new stadium, the government puts the money. I’m happy to see that people are finally put a standing on that. Kansas City denying money to the Chiefs was a great example. Teams need to pay for their stadium.
I live ~1 hour outside San Diego, and Petco Stadium was the first thing that came to mind when I was watching this. The area is so vibrant and I love how historic factory/warehouse buildings blend into the pitch. I’ve spent the night in an apartment just across the street from Petco Stadium on a game night, and even then I never found the light/sound to be intrusive.
0:50 That's Kansas City. This must be around 2014. That glass building on the left isn't residential, that's an office too. The construction on the right is One Light which is residential. Also, we don't have a professional sports team at the Sprint Center (T-Mobile Center).
Definitely not an office building, but I don't blame this video's creator for not knowing that. Heck, even Ken Jennings probably wouldn't have been able to tell you who's building it was when he was a contestant on Jeopardy, but I bet he would be able to now.
I live in walking distance to Bills Stadium in Orchard Park NY (and the new one going up literally across the street from the old one). It's annoying on game day and I don't leave my house due to all the people but every other day it's typical suburbia. My neighbors turn their yard into a parking lot, and many nearby properties have converted their yards to parking lots as well so they can charge $20 apiece the day-of. I don't think it gives a meaningful boost to the economy of my area other than the 5% of the year where it hosts events... then the bars just get more traffic than usual and the parking lots make bank. Meanwhile the town, county, and state bend over backwards to shovel money down Josh Allen's throat. Frankly it's made me despise the Bills but I guess I should've known what I was getting into when I bought the house.
I don't know what the Bills were thinking. Snowstorms have forced them to move a home game twice to Ford Field in the last decade. It never occurred to them that the logistics of playing in such a downtown area (like the Lions do) might make snow clearing more feasible than having to worry about everyone needing to drive to the middle of nowhere.
Check out The Gabba and Lang Park (aka Suncorp Stadium) in Brisbane. Both close to the city centre, both no parking. They just set up special public transport systems to make it work. Also Brisbane is a new world city, similar to American cities, so there's no constraint of old European designs or buildings.
Another good example is Busch stadium in St. Louis. It’s downtown with a view of the city including the arch. It’s near all the attractions by the water too. Enterprise center is just down the street where the blues play. Recently they’ve added a whole “ballpark village” which is open every day even with no games with lots of community areas and restaurants.
Lived outside St. Louis city for most of my life and initially I thought the same thing, but after looking at it on Google Maps you realize how cut-off from the city it really is, and while ballpark village is well integrated with the stadium, I’d argue it’s also separated from the rest of the city. I think a closer example to the one shown in the video is Petco Stadium in San Diego, as you can see how the surrounding buildings flow out from the stadium and keeps flowing.
The giants stadium in San Francisco is great it’s right in the middle of the east side of the city next to the train and muni stations. It’s parking lots are across a bridge on a wharf which is in a post industrial decaying wasteland so it’s not really replacing anything cool
Seattlite here! I recently visited Chicago for the first time and Wrigley Field was on my must see list. I’ve always been a Cubs fan but have only recently been into city planning. Walking around Wrigleyville while an early season game was about to start was very refreshing. The Stadium district in Seattle is walkable but it feels more like an afterthought. Wrigleyville felt like I was still in Chicago and not just going to a game.
Wrigley Field is cool because it's so old and so iconic, but it's really kind of a terrible ballpark if I'm being honest. Cramped, undersized, uncomfortable, it reeks horribly of trash and sewage. Wrigley has a major infestation of both rats and roaches. It's just not a very fun experience to go to a ball game there.
Camden Yards in Baltimore is literally like this. Surrounded by residential/commercial/ and the university of Maryland hospital campus and its other neighbor is literally Ravens Stadium. Our stadiums are right next to each other.
Cities always pick up the transportation tab; arterials don't grow on trees. With cars, you have the added disadvantage of blowing large holes in your city grid, adding cost and rippling out transport problems for everyone else.
The problem is that nobody wants to take transit. Wrigley Field is a prime example of that. It's much easier to take the CTA red line or any of the buses that service the area, but most people don't. Generally, everyone still drives to a Cubs game, and it causes horrendous traffic jams and huge crowds, and makes parking into a disaster. It's why Wrigleyville has such a negative reputation here in Chicago. People love the stadium for its historic nature and because it's such an iconic part of baseball culture but everyone hates the location. Most people would prefer if it were located in the burbs, or at least further away from an inner city neighborhood. Sox Park is near the red line too, in fact the closest station is even named Sox/35th, and yet nobody takes the red line to a Sox game. That's why the stadium is surrounded on all sides by parking lots.
The best way to replicate it is what they've already done in Mesa, they built Sloan Park right next to the sanitary sewar plant so it always smells like Wrigley Field.
This is phenomenal cause it’s a sports example case for mixed use zoning and the benefits of building accessibility into cities instead of just car-based designs. Who’d have thought building cities and stadiums for people instead of cars works better.
The problem is that nobody wants that. Wrigley Field is a prime example of an accessible stadium that's right in the middle of a neighborhood and heavily serviced by public transit, yet nobody uses that. Everyone still drives to a Cubs game, and it causes horrendous traffic jams and enormous crowds, and turns city parking into an absolute nightmare. Design the stadium with accessibility and walkability in mind all you want, but this is America, and nobody wants those things. They want to drive to the stadium and leave their vehicle in a parking lot.
The problem is, it DOESN'T work better. People still use cars to get to Wrigley Field. Nobody takes the train or bus or walks there. Go to a Cubs game and you will find the overwhelming majority of attendees have driven there.
Another one like this is Lambeau field. It does have a lot of parking spaces around it (+ their training fields), but is in the middle of residences and urban development. They also have a bit of mixed use which they have been expanding on in recent years.
I was just at The Rady Shell in San Diego, I liked how Petco Park was built into the downtown area on the water. Helps that there are a few massive parking structures near by.
Stadia in empty deserts of parking is just anathema to me as a Brit, walking to the game is part of the whole experience. The 2026 World Cup looks like it's going to be a nightmare for that aspect of the game.
I live in Turin Italy. We have one old stadium and one new one. The new one for Juventus is really weird. It has a shopping mall and a bunch of other stuff integrated into it. I guess the team makes money but it isn't really integrated into the city the way the other old Olympic stadium is
The old Wembley used to be like that though. As much as I loved the old stadium and all it's history, the new one with all the stuff around it is a better way to go.
@timothybarnett1066 that's because you limeys don't know about tailgating. Tailgating can be as fun as the game itself, and in many places is a tradition on its own. When I goto baseball games, I drive, bring a grill and a cooler, get there 4 or 5 hours early, grill, drink and have a great time before the game even starts. There's usually other fans amd a communal experience with everyone else doing the same thing. That doesn't happen walking or taking a train to a stadium
But also you are a fan of a team maybe what 20 miles away. I live 105 miles from my closest NFL team 160 miles from the nearest MLB and NBA team 165 miles from the nearest NHL and MLS teams. It isn’t the same
Rogers Place in Edmonton AB is a fantastic venue right in the middle of downtown. Accessible by two light rail transit lines and is integrated into a great entertainment district. So much better than the old arena which was more parking lot than anything
I live in the south now but grew up about 2 hours from Wrigley. I tell people Wrigley is like no other stadium. It is right in the middle of a neighborhood. My wife didn’t really understand until I took her. The new Braves stadium is the closest thing to Wrigley but it’s much more commercial than residential.
@@beezer370 Yes, he did. Stewart does this fairly often. He likes to pretend he's from Chicago and that he knows things about the city but a lot of the information he gives in these videos is completely wrong. He made up the part about trash storage in the basement, he also made up a thing about the word "gangway" originating in Chicago when in reality is existed as a word in the English language before the discovery of the continent of North America. He also made up a bunch of stuff about Marina City's history.
The Cubs entire facility is underground Right outside of Wrigley Field, all the training and practice stuff it’s pretty amazing there is a video on it somewhere
0:51 Fast forward and pause at the 00:50 mark... This is the Kansas City Power and Light district. Mostly labeled correctly, though the residential label is on the H&R block headquarters (yes, it's an oval block building). The Sprint Center is central to this development, but doesn't have the draw to pull a permanent tenant to this arena. None of this area is paying taxes back as estimated when the bonds and tax breaks were allotted. At the right edge of the screen is the I-670 ditch that will eventually be buried into a tunnel. It was also the proposed site of the new KC Royals Stadium but the commitment from tax payers, parking options, and the fact they have a perfectly functional stadium (that the owner had shady report card funded).
I lived by Wrigley (Wilton / Waveland) from 2003-2005. Hell of an experience that I will always cherish. But when it was time to go, I was ready to go. Dealing with gameday crowds while going to or from work or school during the season got to be a real pain. But damn. Great way to spend my last two years of college. And being there for the ‘03 run was a blast. If only it hadn’t ended so bad.
Plenty of lower division clubs like that! Out of curiosity though, how many of the major clubs still have old school stadiums? In the premier league the only one I can think of is Selhurst Park (unless you count Luton I guess). Selhurst Park looks like something from the 1920s, i.e. a cowshed with obstructed views which backs onto terraced houses. I don't think it's long for the world though, redevelopment is due to begin shortly.
@@brick6347 built into the houses like that in the top division (for one more game) is only luton as you say that i think of? of course, before it was demolished, highbury was probably the most notable example? i'm an evertonian myself, and goodison is ancient and we've only one season left there, but it is surrounded by terraced housing (rather than conjoined). anfield across the way is also surrounded by housing, but LFC bought up lots of it and demolished it so as to make space for their expansions. the new everton stadium on the waterfront will be a good example of a stadium in/near a city centre, and we'll see what's developed around it over time--the area there is a good spot for rejuvenation.
I grew up on Bell and Addison (St Bens), about a mile and half from Wrigley. I remember my family jumping on the Addison bus to catch the games growing up in the 70's. Then we moved up to Skokie. Loved those weekends going to the game, that it was so close to our house. Wish we stayed in the neighborhood.
Thank you very much for bringing up that the stadiums never benefit the city. We are dealing with a stadium development here and it's poised to be an anchor on its surroundings. Wish us luck
You should check out Indianapolis Motor Speedway. It was originally built on empty farmland, but residential neighborhoods grew around it, and now the track is an amazing place to be
I think the incremental approach misses the big picture. Private stadiums and team ownership are private business. They are not a financial investment for the owner. They are a social investment and luxury good. There is no reason to subsidize billionaires. The Urban planning issue is why is Wrigley such a better and more successful stadium, and business than Comiskey? Stadiums integrated in the street grid without dedicated parking are an asset to the neighborhood, not a destructive presence. Look to Europe to see where the best stadiums are and how they integrate without parking. City Nerd has a good series on Stadiums.
Parking lots are part of the problem. They are like huge moats around the stadiums and people only go back and forth to the stadium from their cars. So why would you want to live near there if you're looking at a huge empty parking lot most of the time or have to walk a mile across pavement to get to a game? And since the businesses around the parking lot are just things you see as you drive past them to the stadium, they aren't getting business either. If anything, owners should be promoting more mass transit that also stops at their stadiums.
While the plans to make LCA in Detroit like Wrigleyville fell apart (stadium is cool but the lack of surrounding shops and residences that were shown originally was super disappointing), having all four major teams within blocks of each other is something I grown to really appreciate. Lots of people double up on sports, like catching a Red Wings daytime game and then walking over to catch a Lions primetime game is a really unique experience.
If public funds are going to be used to build these new stadiums then owners need to give these cities a ownership stake in the team. After all the cities need to protect their investment. Otherwise these billionare owners can build their own stadiums. They can afford it.
I grew up an Angels fan in Southern California. The Angels have a connection to Wrigley Field. The Angels started as a minor league team to the Chicago Cubs, and played in a stadium named Wrigley Field, in Los Angeles. The Major League Angels team of today, played their first season at that Wrigley Field, before moving to Dodger Stadium, then to Anaheim Stadium in 1966, which is right now, the fourth oldest stadium in the Major League. I live in Minnesota now, and enjoy going up to Target Field to watch the Twins play. In 2019 I got to go to Chicago and watch the Angels play the Cubs. It was a great experience getting to go to Wrigley to see the oldest stadium in the MLB. Getting to walk around the ballpark and see all the business before the game was cool. On 1/1/23, I got to go to Lambeau Field to watch the Vikings play the Packers, that’s another great stadium, with a great community around the place.
Interesting that you talk about Chicago stadiums, maybe it would be interesting to look north to Evanston and the Northwestern football stadium controversy
Privately funded projects are required to pass rudimentary financial tests. The owners need to make money and pay taxes, and any changes made have to have a strong business case. A publicly owned project isn't required to turn a profit, so it's not uncommon for budget blowouts or for an insufficient business case. Stadiums are important cultural hubs, but often represent electoral promises rather than strengthening the local economy.
I'm also from Chicago and I can confirm he just makes up half the stuff in these videos. That entire segment about the garbage storage thing was invented by him. I was employed at Wrigley Field for six years. There's no trash storage in the basement. He made that up.
I never understood vast sprawling parking lots when multi-storey parking and underground parking are completely possible, though mostly none of that exists for stadiums here in the UK, most fans at games are from close by or a train/bus ride away, and visiting fans from away teams are more likely to use public transit than drive. You can often find multi-story parking slightly further away from the stadiums and then walk - this is mostly the norm. See the London Stadium for example, previously the Olympic Stadium and current home of West Ham United. The stadium is in the middle of the 2012 Olympic site with gardens, parks, water ways and other Olympic level buildings like the Zaha Hadid designed London Aquatic Centre. The nearest parking lot (multi story) is probably a 15min walk from the stadium where you'll also find Straford International train station. The London stadium has an 80,000 capacity, imagine if you needed parking for even half of those people, jeez!
Actually you can't really do that in a lot of different places here in the US. For example, in Chicago You're talking about a plethora of water and electric and sewer lines underneath the ground, not to mention the fact that the entire city is pretty much built on fill, and the fact that being so close to the lake you'd have to deal with a ton of groundwater underneath the surface
Wrigley has the advantage of having been built over 100 years ago in an area of Chicago that ended up being in a safe and fun part of the city, and it then ended up having owners that saw the value of updating it a decade ago. Before the Ricketts family owned the Cubs, Wrigley was on its last legs. There was only one set of bathrooms down either side of the diamond on the first level, only one set of bathrooms for the entire upper deck, and not to mention the foundation itself was eroding away. Us Cub fans are truly spoiled now. That being said, I live a mile north of the United Center in a neighborhood that is now thriving and fun, but that was not the case 30 years ago. Just because there aren't residential buildings and bars directly across the street from sporting arenas doesn't mean that they're inaccessible to local residents.
Chicago is not like the rest of the country. Don’t need a car here. Probably why I’ll never move away, and if I do it’ll probably be to a city on the east coast where it’s almost as walkable
Unfortunately it’s mainly cities like Chicago and New York that have transportation that makes it feasible to live without a cars, many large cities like Los Angelos and Tampa are still very car centric
Chicago is one of a small handful of cities where it is feasible to live car free, and just about the only one outside the Northeast. The vast majority of American cities are not like this
I love Wrigley. I never thought about how unique it really is. I go there all the time when it’s not a game. Great area. Needing to walk or take the train/bus there is part of the fun!
One more time for the people in the back: Studies show the economic impact and job creation of a stadium is equal to an average department store. We’re using hundreds of millions of public funds and essentially getting the benefits of a Target.
Not everything has to be economic. Sports teams bring civic pride in a way that department stores don't. Tens of millions watch sports teams. Imagine how irrelevant Kansas City would be if the Chiefs never existed.
People value sports as a public good. It might be insane from a rational cost benefit analysis pov, but a very large part of the population is deeply invested in at least some kind of sport and they appreciate when the government contributes to it.
Another thing that doesn't get talked about enough too is the community engagement the developers of these arenas/stadiums do to. A lot of the time, they'll create what's called a 'POA' or Points of Agreement with the local community on how they plan to give back to them once the stadium goes up. I live in Brooklyn and the Barclays Center is unanimously hated by the locals. The place was finished and opened in 2012 and they STILL haven't fulfilled any of the affordable housing that was a part of the POA.
I live near Wrigley Field & still hate the road closure disturbance in game days😒 However, I am willing to continue tolerate it if the whole area were re-designed for pedestrians ONLY🤏 Cars should never be allowed to get close to the field & their parking lots should always be miles away from any residential neighborhoods. The red line & buses from & to parking lots can accommodate off city fans & visitors 🤏
This is why I love New York. Yankees stadium is a block away from a very residential area and super close to businesses and is directly across the street from several public transit optioned including 3 separate trains and even more buses. Citi Field is directly connected to a train line, you can walk right out the train station and be at the gate of Citi field, it’s also very close to homes and there’s several malls nearby. Both stadiums are frequently used for concerts and other forms of entertainment year round when the games aren’t being played
Great video! I wish you had mentioned the cancelled proposal dubbed Armour Field. It was a concept in the 90s to build a new stadium for the White Sox and redevelop the surrounding area. The old Comiskey would’ve become a park, and the parking lots would’ve become dense housing and mixed retail. It would’ve made the area around the stadium a vibrant, welcoming neighborhood like Wrigleyville!
Closest we have to this stadium is Pimico raceway in Baltimore, as being surrounded by residential, it's tough getting to and from Preakness, seems like Wrigley is the only thing organized in Chicago.
It took a long while...but Detroit finally is coming together. All 4 of the big 4 sports teams play walking distance from downtown, midtown (Cass Corridor) and the river. Fans from Windsor Ontario can come in via a special bus. Business parking lots for companies convert to sports related parking... and the spots are reused year round from 6am through 1am many nights. And now, finally there is more affordable housing being "in filled" within this area, replacing the parking lots close to the stadiums. There is nothing quite like that in North America.
PNC Park did a fantastic job in revitalizing the area. The architect actually came to my school for chapel service and talked about creating healthy community enviornments! It was really cool!
With bias as a Marylander, I think that Nats Park in DC did a pretty good job of building a baseball park and a neighborhood around it. First off it's 1 block from the metro so easy to get to from across the region with frequent, high-capacity transit. The stadium is integrated into the block, has a couple pedestrian streets with shops next to it. The entire Navy Yard neighborhood has a lot of new high-rise apartments nearby all on what was low density or abandoned industry. It's done a decent (not great) job of keeping affordable housing with the neighborhood west of S. Capitol St nearby. Orioles Park at Camden Yards has potential but is really let down by 2 things. The local neighborhoods get super into games but most of that is located a 10+ minute walk away in Federal Hill. Ridgely's & Otterbein are close but small while Inner Harbor doesn't have a ton of residential. And second, public transport is typically a let down. Compared to the frequency and capacity of DC metro, Baltimore's light rail has awful headways even on game days leading to long waits, and only 1 N-S line so it's rider-shed is much smaller. Camden Station would be an amazing resource for getting attendees to and from games but they only run on weekdays and stop service pretty early. A big missed opportunity.
Weve done a pretty good job here in Minneapolis at integrating our sports venues into the city. The Target Field/Center conplex sits right next to a huge entertainment area in downtown, and within walking distance there are tons of condo and apartments. The twins stadium has actually kinda revitilized the area. Its also got good public transportation (that wasnt built for the stadiums) AND decent access in and out for cars because the two ramps that service the stadiums are built on top of one of the downtown areas freeway access points. Target center, where the timberwolves play, is probably in the most perfect spot in the city for a sports venue. The vikings play on the otherside of dowwntown and the riverside atea it is near has been residential (though higher end) for quite sometime. And its accessable by the same transportation systems as the target conplex for the wolves and twins. I think they did pretty well. The only outlier is xcel energy where the wild play. That is in St. Paul. Being honest, i dont know much about the area, except that the best pizza in the midwest is just angew blocks away. Haha.
If you want to look at a Stadium driving local developement you should look at Target Field and US Bank Stadium. In both cases the stadium actually revitalized a part of the city, turning Minneapolis' old Warehouse district into a thriving and burgening new residential area, while US Bank's owner develope the immediate area around the stadium himself.
And both have their required parking in structures (or ramps, as we locals call them), though people sill try to get street parking. They should take transit though ... both bus and light rail have stops at both. And if you're walking, there are Skyway entrances to both. My office overlooks Target Field ... I'm not much of a sports fan so I never tried watching from the building's 41st floor lounge, complete with telescopr.
Lived in two different apartments next to wrigley field first place was two houses down from center field and sold a parking spot for $40 a game. Loved it. Then I moved above a bar about a block away and that was in 2016. The area is very affordable. I was in college for the three years spent there
The Padres have had 1 of the best neighborhood revitalizations stories since opening Petco (2004). The East Village was a blight prior to Petco with mostly abandoned industrial facilities & some rundown mix-use apartments & high crime rates. Now there are multiple condo-highrises, restaurants, etc.
Columbus Ohio had a similar story to this. Before Nationwide Arena was built to house the Blue Jackets, that side of town was home to a wonderful abandoned train station and an even more wonderful abandoned prison. Now the arena district is a great area to go to. Currently the district is home to 3 sports venues, 9 or 10 concert specific venues, and god knows how many bars and restaurants. All in all a good use of public funding.
Yes, it is in one of the nicest areas of Chicago to live in! Great restaurants , shops, bars, nice homes and apartments, and a lakefront and park within a few blocks walk! You are right though, it is a bit pricey!
I think the Padre’s Petco Park is maybe the best location. Smack dab in the heart of downtown San Diego, next to the famous Convention Center, Gaslamp District, and much more, plus the waterfront steps away! And the whole area is immensely walkable.
In Nashville our minor league team has a nice home downtown, within walking distance of Broadway and apartments nearby. The Titan stadium on the other hand is across the river surrounded by asphalt.
Yeah - looking at all the Chicago Two Flats for sale out there, I wish people went with incremental change for their bathrooms, kitchens, and door and window trim as well.
Portland’s Providence Park is remarkably well integrated into the neighborhood. It’s easily accessible on public transit and is around a ton of great commercial and residential spaces.
Great video. I think the ways in which stadiums and these kinds of infrastructure are being developed are such an interesting way to understand different types of infrastructure building and the ways these impact communities. When you compare stadiums in older parts of Europe to North American stadiums, the differences are massive, but then you see how these are built in places like China, Japan and South Korea, and you see different models too.
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
Just pointing out, why completely build a new Sox stadium? Just de-convert half (or more) of the parking lots into residential and business districts. You have the red and green lines, as well as the Metra, right there. You have pretty vibrant neighborhoods around there to support them, with Bridgeport to the west and north. You have IIT and Bronzeville to the east.
The problem with the new stadium has never been the location, it was the attempt to have the acres upon acres of parking lots. And the city doesn't need to pour money into the stadium, it can be fixed by just selling the lots.
Shady neighborhoods right by it too. There’s very little game day atmosphere at and around guarantee rate stadium
They're probably shady because they're only next to acres and acres of parking lots @@SLHJR0390
Residential parking around the stadium is a bitch. I used to live on 31st & Shields. Absolute hell 😅
100% agree but also who wants to go to a game when the Sox suck 90% of the time. They think the location is an issue. It is the disinvestment in the team.
@@SLHJR0390that’s because it of the zoning and poverty!!!
10 000 people is about 7000 cars or about 10 trains. Building stadiums with assumption of car commute is just plain stupid.
The MCG in Melbourne holds 100,000 people and there is no parking. How do we do it? Put the stadium right between two of the busiest train stations in the country.
@@JohnFromAccounting What MCG did makes logical, structural, and economic sense. However, especially after WWII, America has been conditioned to drive everywhere just to live their daily lives, which means an overabundance of expressways, freeways, parking lots, and suburban sprawl, and underfunding and underutilization of public transit, much of it for reasons unique to American history (think race relations).
FACTUAL
I KNOW RIGHT????
We should go towards fucking public transport away from cars
I live a 30 minute walk away from Wrigley Field, and while the neighborhood can be pretty trashy, I would much rather live in Wrigleyville than 90% of the country
almost every baseball stadium used to be like wrigley, but over time they were moved out of neighborhoods in the city and into the suburbs
Isn’t Wrigleyville a suburb of Chicago?
@@mayday14-88 No while its north of downtown its just a neighborhood of the city. Not even the one of the northernmost neighborhoods eithers by a long shot.
@@mayday14-88 No, Wrigleyville is very much an inner city neighborhood here.
It's because people want it that way. Look at the public opinion of Wrigley Field here in Chicago, people hate it. Not the stadium itself, but the effect it has on traffic and transit in the city. On a game day, big crowds and lots of activity form outside the stadium, and the red line gets super busy. Everyone hates it and complains about it.
@@mayday14-88 neighborhood within Chicago
The Rays are currently pulling the same card, "we'll leave if you don't pay for our stadium". Their mock-ups and promises say that they'll build a vibrant and inclusive mixed-use development around the stadium, but the written deal itself allows them to get out of building anything beneficial to the city.
Such a joke.
They might want to move to somewhere like Nashville, TN.
The city of Cleveland has the Art Modell law that will try and prevent a team from doing something like this. Right now the browns are trying to figure out a stadium change and there's talks of moving the stadium out of downtown Cleveland to a neighboring suburb.
@@reesejabs1895 As a Rays fan I wouldn't mind that, but MLB is never going to put a team here for a number of reasons. I also wouldn't want our government subsidizing another godd*mned stadium in this city. We're already giving half a billion to the Titans to replace a 20 year old stadium
Call their bluff. They ain't going nowhere.
It's insane public money is used to help build these stadiums.
Yah the claim that stadiums add so much to the surrounding area is kinda bullshit. They do bring some buisness but they also bring a bunch of traffic disruption and general annoyance.
And it's not like a convention center that plausibly pulls in tourists from out of the city. Indeed, it's not even clear to me that stadiums are beneficial to the city at large at all -- and certainly not more than what else could be done with that money.
They're doing this in Hobart, which is a small city currently struggling in the health sector with a severe shortage of hospital staff.
it's IL; you get what you vote for
Not really, it's an investment. If Buffalo didn't offer public funds for the Bills, they surely would have built a new stadium ... in San Antonio.
It’s not like these stadiums bring tens of thousands of people to the area, tens of thousands of people who eat and buy merchandise in the area.
Yeah, it can be seen as a nuisance for residents, but it’s an enormous contributor to the local economy. And for the local residents- I can guarantee that none of them were alive, let alone moved in before the stadium was built- meaning they knew exactly what they were getting into.
Yeah, it’s a private business, but it created an entire economy around it, and thousands of people rely on its existence.
It baffles me why a city would help build a stadium, especially when it is surrounded by parking lots. It is like saying, “We are willing to spend millions of dollars for the worst possible value.”
Its called leverage
Because voters aren't well informed and they have a strong emotional connection to sports teams (as do the politicians).
Which would you prefer to be -- the politician who can point to the giant fancy stadium you built or the responsible politician who gets voted out because you get blamed for letting the beloved local team leave.
The team will often charge a fortune for a parking spot, so clubs can milk the supporter for double the money. I think that’s solely why the Panthers have been tempted to move out of Charlotte.
@@TheWadge How much would a team have to charge for occasional parking to make up for the loss of much more productive uses of the land?
@@TheWadgeIn the case of Oakland, those teams didn’t even need parking. A great regional train system stops right at the stadium complex. Who wants to sit in traffic with tens of thousands of people before and after a game?
I've been saying, as a Southsider and resident of the southwest suburbs, that the simplest way for the White Sox to boost attendance would be to build a Metra stop west of the field where the Southwest Service line runs. That's a lot more economical than building a new stadium and they would have fans from Manhattan, Orland Park, Palos, Oak Lawn, etc... that would be able to easily get to the stadium for $10 round trip, could responsibly have that extra beer and with bathrooms on board the train you're not racing on the Dan Ryan to get to a safe bathroom once all that pop catches up with you. They could then remove some of the parking lots to enhance the neighborhood and surrounding area.
That being said, I believe Metra is working on moving the Southwest Service line to use the Rock Island line which stops at 35th - Lou John's just east of the field. Perhaps the White Sox should hold off on their new stadium plans until that happens so they can see what attendance looks like once 130,000+ people have an easier time getting to games.
As a NWI Sox fan, I wish I could get to Sox park from the south shore line - it’s only feasible by backtracking from the loop to a red line stop and it runs infrequently enough to make driving just a way less frustrating experience.
I do have this option with Bears games but again the SSL is infrequent enough that I’ve more than once been faced with the choice of leaving in the middle of the fourth quarter or waiting an hour and a half for the next train.
Chicago baseball is in a weird spot. The park with better food is also the one with tons of parking space for tailgating 🙃 and the team with a larger proportion of fans from downstate/out of state has so little parking you opt to find a $50 Driveway on SpotHero.
You’re right about that, living in the south suburbs (I live in Homewood) you only have access to Michigan Ave and State St in terms of the city
This is FANTASTIC. I have been saying this for forever! The sea of parking next to the current Sox park is such an atrocity!!
I've been to Chicago numerous times and I go to Tigers/Sox games because I'm a Tigers fan and it's always baffled me that the two lines stopping at/near the Sox stadium are Red/Green and there's basically no public transit access for anyone southwest of the stadium in any meaningful way with the exception of the few that might live off the ass-end of the green line. Having been to several stadiums, Guaranteed Rate just seems like the most generic car-centric stadium that could be in any city just like Stuart said. Given how they've already bilked the city once out of a bunch of money for no return, I can't blame the city for being hesitant to let them do it again.
@@KevinPassino there is a train that goes to Joliet. However there IS another metra train that goes right next door to the stadium, even closer than the current metra stop that survives other suburbs... It should have a stop!!
"Pay for our billion dollar home, taxpayers, because we don't like the last one you paid for anymore or we'll go somewhere else" is a disgusting mentality sports teams have.
I'm a Mets fan, and while I enjoy the team playing in Queens, it'll always be true that one of the many sins committed by Robert Moses as planner of NYC in the 50s-60s was his insistence that a new ballpark be built off a highway and surrounded by parking lots, instead of the old jewel box style neighborhood-integrated parks that were lost when the Polo Grounds and Ebbets Field were torn down. I know they're planning to build an "entertainment district" and park around Citi Field now, but man, what I'd give for an authentic neighborhood surrounding the ballpark ala Wrigleyville.
Don’t forget they are building a stadium for NYCFC. And it’s a walking distance from flushing.
There is nothing better than walking out of Wrigley after a cubs win and every bar is packed blasting go cubs go. It is a huge surge in local economy because it’s a family vibe. Teams should replicate because it’s not just the cubs I love, it’s everything to do with going to a game
@@excalipoor It’ll be right across the street from Citi Field, so it still won’t exactly be a “neighborhood stadium”, unfortunately, given that Main Street is still around a mile plus walk away.
Newyorkers have the Yankee stadium as a shining beacon of integration between stadium and city. And remember the Yankee Stadium is not old, but a replacement of an old one, done right. (The original Yankee Stadium wa made into a park.)
@@thevikingbear2343 Ehhhh...only to a point. It's nowhere near as integrated, it and the old stadium were too big for that, and there's a lot of empty space and/or major roads surrounding it.
I think the commercial area around Wrigley Field is also a huge part of what makes the area work. Clark and Addison street are chock-full of bars, restaurants, and shops that are packed throughout the year, even when the Cubs aren't playing. And the owners of Wrigley field are quite creative about using the field during the baseball off-season to make still make it a revenue source. Every winter they have a Christmas carnival on the field, and they've been hosting outdoor hockey games for decades.
While this is true, Wrigley Field is pretty widely hated here in Chicago. It's silly if you ask me, but people don't like the way the stadium is right in the middle of the neighborhood because they say it causes crowds and messes up traffic and makes transit even more of a mess than it already is. Why do you think Sox Park and the UC are the way they are? Removed from the community, surrounded by parking lots or industrial buildings. It's because people WANT it that way.
@@BlackVelvetDaydream Don't drive a car in the city, common sense.
@@BlackVelvetDaydreamI disagree. They know in Wrigleyville that they are by a National Landmark and the higher tier landmark national one as of 2020. Most knew what was what when they moved nearby. The Bro's clearly do not mind. This arra within Lakeview and Lincoln Park areas, are top costliest besides core areas of downtown.
Even Southside Sox fans, do not hate the legacy of Wrigley. Plenty of areas away from it to move.
@@michalw5246 I generally don't drive a car in the city but it's becoming more and more necessary with how godawful CTA is. I can't even ride the green line into the Loop without some idiot lighting a cigarette and exhaling smoke in my face, or someone spitting on the floor constantly.
I think the Sox should build an entertainment district over the parking lots. it would make things look weird, but use that large open air for entertainment purposes. throw in some apartments and they have more revenue coming in.
I'm a systems admin for my local minor league baseball stadium, in a greater city area of ~250k people. It was moved to downtown in 2019, as a central part of a broader revitalization effort, with a new $55M ballpark (a public/private split, like usual). The difference that I feel has made it much more palatable to nearby residents, is that it's open to the public year-round to enjoy its walking spaces, vendors, and playgrounds. It was named _Ballpark of the Year_ in 2022, and the impact on our downtown spaces has been dramatic, immediate, and overwhelmingly positive. Obviously, long-term upkeep will be crucial, but it's not difficult to see that it will absolutely bring in enough economic activity to justify the initial costs. Like with most public projects, the devil's in the details, and long-term execution will determine the true value of the new park.
Coincidentally, the team is a double-A affiliate of the Chicago White Sox, so I have to engage with my nerd counterparts at Wrigley Field from time to time.
Very interesting!
@@stewarthicks Thanks for taking the time to read my comment! I really enjoyed the video, and all of your material, I have been subscribed for a long time. I actually typed this out over a week ago, I saw this on Nebula and figured it’d eventually come up here.
Some additional context: I can’t overstate how radical the downtown area has transformed, with the sports complex and other initiatives to encourage new businesses to set up. Our town was previously a textile mill town, and it was an economic desert for nearly two decades after the mill closed in 1999. Now, there are dozens of new (mostly independent) restaurants, bars, retailers, and residential projects. Any evening when the weather is nice, the sidewalks that were once home to weeds, and little else, are now crowded with local families and bubbling with activity. The ballpark is central to everything, and rather than locking the gates between events, and effectively presenting a barrier, the open park provides convenient routes to different areas, and creates a lot of opportunities for displaying local arts and commerce. During COVID-19 we partitioned the outdoor stands to allow for generous distancing, setup the large digital scoreboard as a movie screen, and held movie nights for families who were otherwise deprived of such activities. Ahead of the seasons, we host local college and high-school team games. The effort that has been extended by the city and the team to embed the ballpark into the wider community was an inspired choice that has helped make the construction of the facility, which is a frequently controversial endeavor for cities, an indisputable win for the city and its residents.
If you’re ever in the greater Charlotte, NC area in the summertime, come see the Kannapolis Cannon Ballers!
this is a great plan. I'm from a soccer nation but this is basically what Allianz Arena in Munich did. They have a literal shopping mall inside the stadium, place is open year round and it's still one of the best stadiums in the world 18 years after it opened.
Why not just say the name of the stadium when you give enough details to google it in one second?
As a Chicagoan, im all for the 78 project, i just don't want to pay for it. Reinsdorf is rich enough
Right and what's stopping from him repeating the same idiotic choices. he could quite easily build a new stadium where the old stadium resides and tear down the current stadium, torn out the lots, and build an entire entertainment district right there.
then again i'm thinking with more common sense than greed
Fenway park has a very similar relationship to it’s surrounding area in Boston to wrigleyville. The Fenway area has exploded with nightlife, businesses and residential and office development and is unquestionably urbanist (there is more parking around the stadium than at Wrigley, but it doesn’t feel like it surrounds Fenway the way it does at Guaranteed Rate). And Fenway still has pretty direct highway access too
Wrigley also offers a free bicycle valet service.
After getting used to that, driving to a stadium feels especially insane.
Just left Wrigley before seeing this video actually. It really is a special place.
Not sure I can could get used to "Bicycle Valet Service". It sounds pretty risky to me.
Need Rollerskate lockers
balde to the cubs lolz
It is a special place, but it's also a very hated place. People in Chicago always complain that Wrigley Field's location messes up traffic, causes crowds, and makes public transit even more of a mess than it already is. It's why stadiums like the UC or Sox Park are the way they are; people want it that way.
@@BlackVelvetDaydream Why in the world would you drive a car in Chicago? Use the CTA like a normal person
You should consider doing a video on the Caesar's Superdome in New Orleans. While most other NFL teams are building brand new, monstrosities of stadiums, New Orleans continues to renovate the Superdome, which has saved countless millions and ensures that the Superdome will be relevant for years to come. The Superbowl will be in New Orleans this year. Also, the Superdome is so well strategically placed for fan access, being at the far end of the Central Business disctrict, with the historic streetcar lines running from the area around the Superdome to the river. The fan experience is second to none. I haven't seen a well made video from a channel such as yours discussing the Superdome.
Another team not changing stadiums and instead upgrading are the Green Bay Packers. They’ve been at Lambeau Field since 1957. They’ll probably be the last outdoor stadium in the NFL & no one is phased by that. People love their stadium and it’s the only stadium that should be publicly funded since it’s a publicly held team. To me, as a football fan, Lambeau feels like football’s Wrigley Field or Fenway Park.
You could do a whole video on how stadium design philosophies have changed over the years (Including the dreaded "multipuropse stadium"). We are now in the "stadium land is valuable real estate, so owners want to make them retail and hospitality destinations" phase of design.
Petco park in San Diego integrates nicely with downtown as well. There’s a cute little park on the outside grounds that is accessible when games aren’t being played.
Yes it’s called Fenway park, developed neighborhood after current ownership bought the team and very walkable. Very nice.
The ironic thing is every city did have a Wrigley Field. All of the Jewelbox ballparks were well integrated into the neighborhood. Now Fenway is the only other one left.
The idea of trying to give new ballparks a classic retro feel and incorporate them into some kind of development area, is really an attempt to bring back what was lost with the concrete donut cookie cutters.
Only a couple cities had jewel box ballparks
I would consider the guardians/ Indians stadium partially integrated with the neighbourhood
@@georgehenan853lol @ “every city”.
@@georgehenan853 Not true. Boston=Fenway. Brooklyn=Ebbett's. Chicago=Wrigley/Comiskey. Cincinnati=Crosley. Detroit=Tiger. NY=Polo/Yankee. Philly=Shibe. Pittsburgh=Forbes. St. Louis=Sportsman's. Washington=Griffiths. And that doesn't include more modern-day parks like Camden, Petco, etc., or neighborhood parks like Memorial. Lots of places had them prior to the 50s-70s.
@@jtsholtod.79 that’s a bunch of cities in the east and especially the northeast. There’s a lot more cities in the us than that. Most cities outside of the northeast quadrant of the country lacked jewel box ballparks. Modern retro classic ballparks only aesthetically resemble jewel box parks. They don’t actually count.
💕 I love living next to The Wrigley Field. 💕
Yet, I would love to see the whole area get redesigned for pedestrians ONLY all yearlong. Fans & visitors can ride the red line or designated busses from & to miles away parking lots.
That's just absurd.
People that fetishize this "pedestrian only" nonsense, just think cities are privilege little gated communities.
@DavisWorthington I’ve looked over the statistics and Chicago is a fairly avg city when it comes to crime. Chicago is avg the other cities that were on the list that were a little higher than Chicago were St Louis no shock there Orlando, and Minneapolis. The statistics show that there were more car related deaths than homicides and the good news is that the homicide rates are on the a slow decline and let’s face it we are not going to get 4 Million people to get along. Crime and homicides are always going to be prevalent in a city as large as Chicago.
And how do the drinkers get to the bars? Those are the real moneymakers for the area.
@@plasmaboy2265Chicago is terrible. Compare Chicago to the other largest cities in the country, not the small violent ones. New York-4 times the population, half the murders. La-larger population, half the murders. Houston-similar population, known for being a violent city, not as violent as Chicago
LOL you guys are absolutely delusional 🤣 Absolutely nobody wants to walk to a sports game. This is why you urbanists spend all your time on YT and not in real life xD
My husband and I lived two blocks from Wrigley before they won the World Series. The changes have been INSANE but I’m glad it’s still very walkable. We visit the area occasionally still, and love the Christmas market!
The thing is, even though it's walkable, nobody walks it. Wrigley Field is very accessible via transit but nobody takes it. Everybody drives to a Cubs game, nobody takes the train or bus.
The point you made about how Wrigley Field and Wrigleyville changed together slowly is key. People are forgetting the Cubs for decades were the “lovable losers” and stayed in Wrigley Field because they couldn’t afford to go elsewhere and barely renovated the park. Also, it took a billionaire family to buy up most of what surrounds the stadium and the team to get where it is today. The area is DRASTICALLY different from what it was even 10 years ago.
In the 90’s Wrigleyville still felt like a natural neighborhood. I feel like it’s lost some of that charm
@@johnepants sadly
I was a kid that hated anything related to math, physics and construction. But since last year that I found your channel, I really did falling in love with all of this 3 topics, I wish you were my teacher when I was in school.
Really informative video, lots of detail and information giving with soft voice which makes it more interesting and fun to listen.
My English is not good so in one word your channel is *"perfect"*
Thank you for hard work Mr. Hicks
If you ever do an update on this,maybe you could include the background on UK and European football/soccer stadiums.
Most of them were built around the late 1880s-1910s in the working class neighborhoods where the teams started. Most people used street cars and trolleys so to this day just walk or take public transit from their blocks to the stands.
Newer renovations do have vast parking lots nearby but they don't compromise the area's entertainment centers.
The Padre's Petco Park is probably the closest I can think of to a stadium being set in the heart of a neighborhood in a downtown major city. It has a lot of residential buildings, but also has the gas lamp district right by it and the area remains vibrant even when games are not occuring
Minneapolis, Pittsburgh, San Francisco, Toronto and Detroit are all right downtown. I'm sure there are more that I can't recall as well.
In Toronto, the Skydome was built on former rail lands, meaning the government was required to be involved. Yes, Rogers bought out the building in 2004 at a fraction of the cost but Rogers, the city, and the local developers worked together in building CityPlace, and now Rogers Centre is nestled in between the CN Tower, the rail approach to Union Station, and a whole host of condo and other developments. Also don’t forget the hotel built into the ballpark. It’s a place that provides value to a reclaimed part of town all year. That incremental change was key to making Rogers Centre and CityPlace what it is now.
I refuse to call it "Rogers Centre," and that dumbass statue of Ted out front is an embarrassment. SkyDome till I die
Here in Australia we have similar issues with car-centric infrastructure, however one thing we do get right is our sports stadiums. Go look up pictures of the Melbourne Cricket Ground, Adelaide Oval, Docklands Stadium, the Sydney Cricket Ground, The Gabba. Theyre all located centrally in the city centre with lots of public transport, and often surround by parklands and gardens.
Small caveat--I live in the North Center neighborhood, and if you walk down Irving Park Road, you see a lot of parking lots for Cubs games hidden away in old industrial areas. Attendees take the bus or train, which is great. The same is true for some other neighborhoods away from Wrigley. So while I love that the stadium is fully integrated with its neighborhood, in reality, there's a lot of parking infrastructure backing it up. It's just outside of Wrigleyville.
That long-time Chicago baseball fans know where to find parking is a feature, not a bug.
Most people still drive to Cubs games. The only people who take the bus or train are those who decide to pregame because they don't want to pay for overpriced beer at the stadium, so they get tanked before game time and ride either the bus or the CTA red line. Everyone else just drives, which is why Wrigley Field causes such terrible traffic jams and why everyone hates it.
I might suggest that you check out the Detroit Lions/Tigers/Pistons/Red Wings Stadiums. They are all within walking distance of
each other and they are surrounded by homes & schools & businesses.
no not really, they're still surrounded by a lot of parking, it just so happens to be that all 3 basically share the same parking lots, limiting the bleeding. We're still waiting all sorts of mixed use developments that were supposed to come with LCA.
As someone who saw the Pistons play at the Palace, the experience was FAR BETTER than attending a Tigers game downtown! Since I don't live in the city, I have absolutely no interest in walking. It would also be interesting to see what percentage of fans attending games actually live within the city limits (not even just reasonable walking distance in say December or January). That's the other half of this argument that should be discussed. If I have to drive home, I can't sit in a bar near the stadium and get hammered - which I think the city leadership actually seems to want me to do!
@@commentinglife6175 -- I lived about a mile away from the Palace & my mom worked there so I watched all the Playoff games with the "Bad Boys" at work. It was alright. Only ONE bar opened in that area - There was no where to go but home after the games. That was a frustrating situation. It was surrounded by M-24 & I-75 so walking ANYWHERE was not happening. At least with the Arenas downtown one can walk places. Greektown is right down Broadway along with the DSO & the Fox within spitting distance. I think you would benefit from exploring down there on occasion. I am NOT saying it is perfect but it is Leaps & Bounds better than what it was .
@commentinglife6175 but with the Palace, EVERYONE had to drive home and there were no bars within convenient walking distance. If you didn't have the premium parking pass, would you rather walk back along Lapeer Rd or Woodward?
LCA is way better in this regard that it is close to both rail lines, multiple bus lines, within walking distance to a huge number of hotels and some people do live close enough to get there without a car. And the amount of people needing parking would be even further reduced if the Illitch family had kept their promises.
@@johnnyonthespot4375 That's my point - who needs a bar after a game? I'm spending so much on tickets that I want to attend the game and then go home! I readily admit I could be the outlier, but I doubt it. Wouldn't it be great if that was part of this discussion? Force the team owner to survey the fans who actually attend (and those who would attend but for a stadium being downtown) and ask? Of course, we also have to then consider the hidden costs of the bars that folks love to gloss over: what do the drunks do afterwards? Does the stadium downtown contribute more or less to drunk driving and other illegal drunken behavior? It is a much wider issue for public policy than just "Should the stadium be here."
One great example of a Wrigley Field like stadium is Petco Park in San Diego. The stadium is beautiful, in the middle of the city, you have a lot of bars, housing, offices and even public transit (not a subway, but hey it’s transit).
Doesn’t have the charm of Wrigleyville, but it’s a great place to see a ballgame.
About the public funding, as a foreigner, it always crazy to me that the US is the land of the private land, but when billionaire teams need a new stadium, the government puts the money. I’m happy to see that people are finally put a standing on that. Kansas City denying money to the Chiefs was a great example. Teams need to pay for their stadium.
I live ~1 hour outside San Diego, and Petco Stadium was the first thing that came to mind when I was watching this. The area is so vibrant and I love how historic factory/warehouse buildings blend into the pitch. I’ve spent the night in an apartment just across the street from Petco Stadium on a game night, and even then I never found the light/sound to be intrusive.
0:50 That's Kansas City. This must be around 2014. That glass building on the left isn't residential, that's an office too. The construction on the right is One Light which is residential. Also, we don't have a professional sports team at the Sprint Center (T-Mobile Center).
i assume they were referring to the failed plan to move the Royals downtown ?? but yeah you're right
Definitely not an office building, but I don't blame this video's creator for not knowing that. Heck, even Ken Jennings probably wouldn't have been able to tell you who's building it was when he was a contestant on Jeopardy, but I bet he would be able to now.
I live in walking distance to Bills Stadium in Orchard Park NY (and the new one going up literally across the street from the old one). It's annoying on game day and I don't leave my house due to all the people but every other day it's typical suburbia. My neighbors turn their yard into a parking lot, and many nearby properties have converted their yards to parking lots as well so they can charge $20 apiece the day-of. I don't think it gives a meaningful boost to the economy of my area other than the 5% of the year where it hosts events... then the bars just get more traffic than usual and the parking lots make bank. Meanwhile the town, county, and state bend over backwards to shovel money down Josh Allen's throat. Frankly it's made me despise the Bills but I guess I should've known what I was getting into when I bought the house.
I don't know what the Bills were thinking. Snowstorms have forced them to move a home game twice to Ford Field in the last decade.
It never occurred to them that the logistics of playing in such a downtown area (like the Lions do) might make snow clearing more feasible than having to worry about everyone needing to drive to the middle of nowhere.
Check out The Gabba and Lang Park (aka Suncorp Stadium) in Brisbane. Both close to the city centre, both no parking. They just set up special public transport systems to make it work. Also Brisbane is a new world city, similar to American cities, so there's no constraint of old European designs or buildings.
Another good example is Busch stadium in St. Louis. It’s downtown with a view of the city including the arch. It’s near all the attractions by the water too. Enterprise center is just down the street where the blues play. Recently they’ve added a whole “ballpark village” which is open every day even with no games with lots of community areas and restaurants.
Lived outside St. Louis city for most of my life and initially I thought the same thing, but after looking at it on Google Maps you realize how cut-off from the city it really is, and while ballpark village is well integrated with the stadium, I’d argue it’s also separated from the rest of the city.
I think a closer example to the one shown in the video is Petco Stadium in San Diego, as you can see how the surrounding buildings flow out from the stadium and keeps flowing.
The giants stadium in San Francisco is great it’s right in the middle of the east side of the city next to the train and muni stations. It’s parking lots are across a bridge on a wharf which is in a post industrial decaying wasteland so it’s not really replacing anything cool
I'd like to see him address Candlestick Park, as unlikely as that is.
Seattlite here! I recently visited Chicago for the first time and Wrigley Field was on my must see list. I’ve always been a Cubs fan but have only recently been into city planning. Walking around Wrigleyville while an early season game was about to start was very refreshing. The Stadium district in Seattle is walkable but it feels more like an afterthought. Wrigleyville felt like I was still in Chicago and not just going to a game.
Wrigley Field is cool because it's so old and so iconic, but it's really kind of a terrible ballpark if I'm being honest. Cramped, undersized, uncomfortable, it reeks horribly of trash and sewage. Wrigley has a major infestation of both rats and roaches. It's just not a very fun experience to go to a ball game there.
The battery for the Atlanta braves is great example of surrounding businesses in mind
Camden Yards in Baltimore is literally like this. Surrounded by residential/commercial/ and the university of Maryland hospital campus and its other neighbor is literally Ravens Stadium. Our stadiums are right next to each other.
It's true, Pig town and Federal Hill, Otterbein.
Wrigley’s Delight also. Right across the street.
Cities always pick up the transportation tab; arterials don't grow on trees. With cars, you have the added disadvantage of blowing large holes in your city grid, adding cost and rippling out transport problems for everyone else.
The problem is that nobody wants to take transit. Wrigley Field is a prime example of that. It's much easier to take the CTA red line or any of the buses that service the area, but most people don't. Generally, everyone still drives to a Cubs game, and it causes horrendous traffic jams and huge crowds, and makes parking into a disaster. It's why Wrigleyville has such a negative reputation here in Chicago. People love the stadium for its historic nature and because it's such an iconic part of baseball culture but everyone hates the location. Most people would prefer if it were located in the burbs, or at least further away from an inner city neighborhood. Sox Park is near the red line too, in fact the closest station is even named Sox/35th, and yet nobody takes the red line to a Sox game. That's why the stadium is surrounded on all sides by parking lots.
The best way to replicate it is what they've already done in Mesa, they built Sloan Park right next to the sanitary sewar plant so it always smells like Wrigley Field.
This is phenomenal cause it’s a sports example case for mixed use zoning and the benefits of building accessibility into cities instead of just car-based designs. Who’d have thought building cities and stadiums for people instead of cars works better.
Cars are way better than public transit imo
@@evials9123 no
The problem is that nobody wants that. Wrigley Field is a prime example of an accessible stadium that's right in the middle of a neighborhood and heavily serviced by public transit, yet nobody uses that. Everyone still drives to a Cubs game, and it causes horrendous traffic jams and enormous crowds, and turns city parking into an absolute nightmare. Design the stadium with accessibility and walkability in mind all you want, but this is America, and nobody wants those things. They want to drive to the stadium and leave their vehicle in a parking lot.
The problem is, it DOESN'T work better. People still use cars to get to Wrigley Field. Nobody takes the train or bus or walks there. Go to a Cubs game and you will find the overwhelming majority of attendees have driven there.
@@evials9123 They're really not, no, but people like them better and most people drive to Wrigley Field. Nobody takes transit.
Another one like this is Lambeau field. It does have a lot of parking spaces around it (+ their training fields), but is in the middle of residences and urban development. They also have a bit of mixed use which they have been expanding on in recent years.
Yeah much different story when the fans own the building and the team. Really too bad there isn't more of that.
Yo! You nevah been ta Fenway Pahk?
Took too long to find this comment. Lol
I was wondering the same. Wrigley and Fenway are twin sons of different mothers.
@@Dvy383 my brothah from anothah mothah!
I was just at The Rady Shell in San Diego, I liked how Petco Park was built into the downtown area on the water. Helps that there are a few massive parking structures near by.
Stadia in empty deserts of parking is just anathema to me as a Brit, walking to the game is part of the whole experience. The 2026 World Cup looks like it's going to be a nightmare for that aspect of the game.
I live in Turin Italy. We have one old stadium and one new one. The new one for Juventus is really weird. It has a shopping mall and a bunch of other stuff integrated into it. I guess the team makes money but it isn't really integrated into the city the way the other old Olympic stadium is
The old Wembley used to be like that though. As much as I loved the old stadium and all it's history, the new one with all the stuff around it is a better way to go.
But for the World Cup most people are from out of town, so they probably won’t be staying within walking distance of the stadium
@timothybarnett1066 that's because you limeys don't know about tailgating. Tailgating can be as fun as the game itself, and in many places is a tradition on its own. When I goto baseball games, I drive, bring a grill and a cooler, get there 4 or 5 hours early, grill, drink and have a great time before the game even starts. There's usually other fans amd a communal experience with everyone else doing the same thing. That doesn't happen walking or taking a train to a stadium
But also you are a fan of a team maybe what 20 miles away.
I live 105 miles from my closest NFL team
160 miles from the nearest MLB and NBA team
165 miles from the nearest NHL and MLS teams.
It isn’t the same
Rogers Place in Edmonton AB is a fantastic venue right in the middle of downtown. Accessible by two light rail transit lines and is integrated into a great entertainment district. So much better than the old arena which was more parking lot than anything
I went to my first game at Wrigley last week. I loved it!
I live in the south now but grew up about 2 hours from Wrigley. I tell people Wrigley is like no other stadium. It is right in the middle of a neighborhood. My wife didn’t really understand until I took her. The new Braves stadium is the closest thing to Wrigley but it’s much more commercial than residential.
As someone who works at Wrigley I can tell you that no trash goes into the basement.
Did the speaker make up that story?
OK
@@beezer370 Yes, he did. Stewart does this fairly often. He likes to pretend he's from Chicago and that he knows things about the city but a lot of the information he gives in these videos is completely wrong. He made up the part about trash storage in the basement, he also made up a thing about the word "gangway" originating in Chicago when in reality is existed as a word in the English language before the discovery of the continent of North America. He also made up a bunch of stuff about Marina City's history.
Oh wow. I wonder if he’s using AI to make up these colorful, factually incorrect stories.
Nationals stadium in DC is very vibrant with or without games as well
I would love to see a similar video about Lambeau Field in Green Bay. That place has remained a special and integrated part of the community
The owners aren't exactly going to hold the city hostage for a new stadium by threatening to move.
@herranton Thats cause the owners of the Packers are the fans
@@ArchIVEDCinema thanks genius.
@@herranton You're welcome
The Cubs entire facility is underground Right outside of Wrigley Field, all the training and practice stuff it’s pretty amazing there is a video on it somewhere
The cubs actually took the wall apart brick by brick and used the same bricks to build it back up to abide by the historical landmark
0:51 Fast forward and pause at the 00:50 mark... This is the Kansas City Power and Light district. Mostly labeled correctly, though the residential label is on the H&R block headquarters (yes, it's an oval block building). The Sprint Center is central to this development, but doesn't have the draw to pull a permanent tenant to this arena. None of this area is paying taxes back as estimated when the bonds and tax breaks were allotted. At the right edge of the screen is the I-670 ditch that will eventually be buried into a tunnel. It was also the proposed site of the new KC Royals Stadium but the commitment from tax payers, parking options, and the fact they have a perfectly functional stadium (that the owner had shady report card funded).
Great video. Wrigley is a gold standard of how stadiums should be incorporated into their communities. The only flaw is that the Cubs play there
A fair criticsim.
I lived by Wrigley (Wilton / Waveland) from 2003-2005. Hell of an experience that I will always cherish. But when it was time to go, I was ready to go. Dealing with gameday crowds while going to or from work or school during the season got to be a real pain.
But damn. Great way to spend my last two years of college. And being there for the ‘03 run was a blast. If only it hadn’t ended so bad.
in britain there were, and still are, stadiums where you need to pass through terraced housing to enter.
Plenty of lower division clubs like that! Out of curiosity though, how many of the major clubs still have old school stadiums? In the premier league the only one I can think of is Selhurst Park (unless you count Luton I guess). Selhurst Park looks like something from the 1920s, i.e. a cowshed with obstructed views which backs onto terraced houses. I don't think it's long for the world though, redevelopment is due to begin shortly.
@@brick6347 built into the houses like that in the top division (for one more game) is only luton as you say that i think of? of course, before it was demolished, highbury was probably the most notable example? i'm an evertonian myself, and goodison is ancient and we've only one season left there, but it is surrounded by terraced housing (rather than conjoined). anfield across the way is also surrounded by housing, but LFC bought up lots of it and demolished it so as to make space for their expansions. the new everton stadium on the waterfront will be a good example of a stadium in/near a city centre, and we'll see what's developed around it over time--the area there is a good spot for rejuvenation.
I grew up on Bell and Addison (St Bens), about a mile and half from Wrigley. I remember my family jumping on the Addison bus to catch the games growing up in the 70's. Then we moved up to Skokie. Loved those weekends going to the game, that it was so close to our house. Wish we stayed in the neighborhood.
Thank you very much for bringing up that the stadiums never benefit the city. We are dealing with a stadium development here and it's poised to be an anchor on its surroundings.
Wish us luck
Actually they do! I can link some research papers on the subject if you'd like :)
You should check out Indianapolis Motor Speedway. It was originally built on empty farmland, but residential neighborhoods grew around it, and now the track is an amazing place to be
I think the incremental approach misses the big picture. Private stadiums and team ownership are private business. They are not a financial investment for the owner. They are a social investment and luxury good. There is no reason to subsidize billionaires.
The Urban planning issue is why is Wrigley such a better and more successful stadium, and business than Comiskey? Stadiums integrated in the street grid without dedicated parking are an asset to the neighborhood, not a destructive presence. Look to Europe to see where the best stadiums are and how they integrate without parking.
City Nerd has a good series on Stadiums.
Parking lots are part of the problem. They are like huge moats around the stadiums and people only go back and forth to the stadium from their cars. So why would you want to live near there if you're looking at a huge empty parking lot most of the time or have to walk a mile across pavement to get to a game? And since the businesses around the parking lot are just things you see as you drive past them to the stadium, they aren't getting business either. If anything, owners should be promoting more mass transit that also stops at their stadiums.
While the plans to make LCA in Detroit like Wrigleyville fell apart (stadium is cool but the lack of surrounding shops and residences that were shown originally was super disappointing), having all four major teams within blocks of each other is something I grown to really appreciate. Lots of people double up on sports, like catching a Red Wings daytime game and then walking over to catch a Lions primetime game is a really unique experience.
If public funds are going to be used to build these new stadiums then owners need to give these cities a ownership stake in the team. After all the cities need to protect their investment. Otherwise these billionare owners can build their own stadiums. They can afford it.
Cities don’t have enough leverage unfortunately. Since these teams can leave.
@joedavenport5243 you ever see things cities own? They're completely garbage. You don't want them owning a sports team.
unfortunately theyll just go to another city that will let them
@@tylerory9745 True. But it seems like more and more cities are wising up telling these billionaire owners to go F themselves.
I grew up an Angels fan in Southern California. The Angels have a connection to Wrigley Field. The Angels started as a minor league team to the Chicago Cubs, and played in a stadium named Wrigley Field, in Los Angeles. The Major League Angels team of today, played their first season at that Wrigley Field, before moving to Dodger Stadium, then to Anaheim Stadium in 1966, which is right now, the fourth oldest stadium in the Major League.
I live in Minnesota now, and enjoy going up to Target Field to watch the Twins play. In 2019 I got to go to Chicago and watch the Angels play the Cubs. It was a great experience getting to go to Wrigley to see the oldest stadium in the MLB. Getting to walk around the ballpark and see all the business before the game was cool.
On 1/1/23, I got to go to Lambeau Field to watch the Vikings play the Packers, that’s another great stadium, with a great community around the place.
Interesting that you talk about Chicago stadiums, maybe it would be interesting to look north to Evanston and the Northwestern football stadium controversy
The "residential" graphic on the KC skyline cutaway at 0:51 isn't residential, it's the H&R Block world headquarters building
Privately funded projects are required to pass rudimentary financial tests. The owners need to make money and pay taxes, and any changes made have to have a strong business case. A publicly owned project isn't required to turn a profit, so it's not uncommon for budget blowouts or for an insufficient business case. Stadiums are important cultural hubs, but often represent electoral promises rather than strengthening the local economy.
You clearly haven’t done business with the Ricketts
Stewart, as a Chicagoan I love all your videos-makes me feel special
I'm also from Chicago and I can confirm he just makes up half the stuff in these videos. That entire segment about the garbage storage thing was invented by him. I was employed at Wrigley Field for six years. There's no trash storage in the basement. He made that up.
I never understood vast sprawling parking lots when multi-storey parking and underground parking are completely possible, though mostly none of that exists for stadiums here in the UK, most fans at games are from close by or a train/bus ride away, and visiting fans from away teams are more likely to use public transit than drive. You can often find multi-story parking slightly further away from the stadiums and then walk - this is mostly the norm. See the London Stadium for example, previously the Olympic Stadium and current home of West Ham United. The stadium is in the middle of the 2012 Olympic site with gardens, parks, water ways and other Olympic level buildings like the Zaha Hadid designed London Aquatic Centre. The nearest parking lot (multi story) is probably a 15min walk from the stadium where you'll also find Straford International train station. The London stadium has an 80,000 capacity, imagine if you needed parking for even half of those people, jeez!
Actually you can't really do that in a lot of different places here in the US. For example, in Chicago You're talking about a plethora of water and electric and sewer lines underneath the ground, not to mention the fact that the entire city is pretty much built on fill, and the fact that being so close to the lake you'd have to deal with a ton of groundwater underneath the surface
Wrigley has the advantage of having been built over 100 years ago in an area of Chicago that ended up being in a safe and fun part of the city, and it then ended up having owners that saw the value of updating it a decade ago. Before the Ricketts family owned the Cubs, Wrigley was on its last legs. There was only one set of bathrooms down either side of the diamond on the first level, only one set of bathrooms for the entire upper deck, and not to mention the foundation itself was eroding away. Us Cub fans are truly spoiled now. That being said, I live a mile north of the United Center in a neighborhood that is now thriving and fun, but that was not the case 30 years ago. Just because there aren't residential buildings and bars directly across the street from sporting arenas doesn't mean that they're inaccessible to local residents.
As a European I'm stunned. I thought that America is forever lost to car-centrism. Maybe there is a hope after all.
Chicago is not like the rest of the country. Don’t need a car here. Probably why I’ll never move away, and if I do it’ll probably be to a city on the east coast where it’s almost as walkable
Unfortunately it’s mainly cities like Chicago and New York that have transportation that makes it feasible to live without a cars, many large cities like Los Angelos and Tampa are still very car centric
Chicago is one of a small handful of cities where it is feasible to live car free, and just about the only one outside the Northeast. The vast majority of American cities are not like this
I love Wrigley. I never thought about how unique it really is. I go there all the time when it’s not a game. Great area. Needing to walk or take the train/bus there is part of the fun!
One more time for the people in the back: Studies show the economic impact and job creation of a stadium is equal to an average department store. We’re using hundreds of millions of public funds and essentially getting the benefits of a Target.
Not everything has to be economic. Sports teams bring civic pride in a way that department stores don't. Tens of millions watch sports teams. Imagine how irrelevant Kansas City would be if the Chiefs never existed.
People value sports as a public good. It might be insane from a rational cost benefit analysis pov, but a very large part of the population is deeply invested in at least some kind of sport and they appreciate when the government contributes to it.
Another thing that doesn't get talked about enough too is the community engagement the developers of these arenas/stadiums do to. A lot of the time, they'll create what's called a 'POA' or Points of Agreement with the local community on how they plan to give back to them once the stadium goes up. I live in Brooklyn and the Barclays Center is unanimously hated by the locals. The place was finished and opened in 2012 and they STILL haven't fulfilled any of the affordable housing that was a part of the POA.
I live near Wrigley Field & still hate the road closure disturbance in game days😒 However, I am willing to continue tolerate it if the whole area were re-designed for pedestrians ONLY🤏 Cars should never be allowed to get close to the field & their parking lots should always be miles away from any residential neighborhoods. The red line & buses from & to parking lots can accommodate off city fans & visitors 🤏
Lived in Ridgleys delight in Baltimore for 5 years it was great!!
WS & Bears should be kicked out off Chicago the moment they started to threaten to move 😡
This is why I love New York. Yankees stadium is a block away from a very residential area and super close to businesses and is directly across the street from several public transit optioned including 3 separate trains and even more buses. Citi Field is directly connected to a train line, you can walk right out the train station and be at the gate of Citi field, it’s also very close to homes and there’s several malls nearby. Both stadiums are frequently used for concerts and other forms of entertainment year round when the games aren’t being played
Great video! I wish you had mentioned the cancelled proposal dubbed Armour Field. It was a concept in the 90s to build a new stadium for the White Sox and redevelop the surrounding area. The old Comiskey would’ve become a park, and the parking lots would’ve become dense housing and mixed retail. It would’ve made the area around the stadium a vibrant, welcoming neighborhood like Wrigleyville!
Closest we have to this stadium is Pimico raceway in Baltimore, as being surrounded by residential, it's tough getting to and from Preakness, seems like Wrigley is the only thing organized in Chicago.
It took a long while...but Detroit finally is coming together. All 4 of the big 4 sports teams play walking distance from downtown, midtown (Cass Corridor) and the river. Fans from Windsor Ontario can come in via a special bus. Business parking lots for companies convert to sports related parking... and the spots are reused year round from 6am through 1am many nights. And now, finally there is more affordable housing being "in filled" within this area, replacing the parking lots close to the stadiums. There is nothing quite like that in North America.
Another stadium that fits this mark well is Busch Stadium in St. Louis. As a Cubs fan it has a great atmosphere as well.
PNC Park did a fantastic job in revitalizing the area. The architect actually came to my school for chapel service and talked about creating healthy community enviornments! It was really cool!
With bias as a Marylander, I think that Nats Park in DC did a pretty good job of building a baseball park and a neighborhood around it. First off it's 1 block from the metro so easy to get to from across the region with frequent, high-capacity transit. The stadium is integrated into the block, has a couple pedestrian streets with shops next to it. The entire Navy Yard neighborhood has a lot of new high-rise apartments nearby all on what was low density or abandoned industry. It's done a decent (not great) job of keeping affordable housing with the neighborhood west of S. Capitol St nearby.
Orioles Park at Camden Yards has potential but is really let down by 2 things. The local neighborhoods get super into games but most of that is located a 10+ minute walk away in Federal Hill. Ridgely's & Otterbein are close but small while Inner Harbor doesn't have a ton of residential. And second, public transport is typically a let down. Compared to the frequency and capacity of DC metro, Baltimore's light rail has awful headways even on game days leading to long waits, and only 1 N-S line so it's rider-shed is much smaller. Camden Station would be an amazing resource for getting attendees to and from games but they only run on weekdays and stop service pretty early. A big missed opportunity.
This video was very interesting and very well done, Stewart!
Coors Field in Denver is like this as well. In the middle of the city surrounded by apartments
It's not even close to what Wrigleyville is like
Weve done a pretty good job here in Minneapolis at integrating our sports venues into the city. The Target Field/Center conplex sits right next to a huge entertainment area in downtown, and within walking distance there are tons of condo and apartments. The twins stadium has actually kinda revitilized the area. Its also got good public transportation (that wasnt built for the stadiums) AND decent access in and out for cars because the two ramps that service the stadiums are built on top of one of the downtown areas freeway access points. Target center, where the timberwolves play, is probably in the most perfect spot in the city for a sports venue.
The vikings play on the otherside of dowwntown and the riverside atea it is near has been residential (though higher end) for quite sometime. And its accessable by the same transportation systems as the target conplex for the wolves and twins.
I think they did pretty well. The only outlier is xcel energy where the wild play. That is in St. Paul. Being honest, i dont know much about the area, except that the best pizza in the midwest is just angew blocks away. Haha.
If you want to look at a Stadium driving local developement you should look at Target Field and US Bank Stadium. In both cases the stadium actually revitalized a part of the city, turning Minneapolis' old Warehouse district into a thriving and burgening new residential area, while US Bank's owner develope the immediate area around the stadium himself.
And both have their required parking in structures (or ramps, as we locals call them), though people sill try to get street parking.
They should take transit though ... both bus and light rail have stops at both. And if you're walking, there are Skyway entrances to both.
My office overlooks Target Field ... I'm not much of a sports fan so I never tried watching from the building's 41st floor lounge, complete with telescopr.
Lived in two different apartments next to wrigley field first place was two houses down from center field and sold a parking spot for $40 a game. Loved it. Then I moved above a bar about a block away and that was in 2016. The area is very affordable. I was in college for the three years spent there
Busch Stadium in STL is surrounded by apartments and restaurants looking down into it. It is pretty awesome looking down 10 stories into the field.
The Padres have had 1 of the best neighborhood revitalizations stories since opening Petco (2004). The East Village was a blight prior to Petco with mostly abandoned industrial facilities & some rundown mix-use apartments & high crime rates. Now there are multiple condo-highrises, restaurants, etc.
I always appreciate your videos, You explain it very well from both sides. Bravo!
Columbus Ohio had a similar story to this. Before Nationwide Arena was built to house the Blue Jackets, that side of town was home to a wonderful abandoned train station and an even more wonderful abandoned prison. Now the arena district is a great area to go to. Currently the district is home to 3 sports venues, 9 or 10 concert specific venues, and god knows how many bars and restaurants. All in all a good use of public funding.
near Wrigley Field is also Boystown, which is someplace I would like to live eventually but don't know if I'll ever make enough for that
Yes, it is in one of the nicest areas of Chicago to live in! Great restaurants , shops, bars, nice homes and apartments, and a lakefront and park within a few blocks walk! You are right though, it is a bit pricey!
I think the Padre’s Petco Park is maybe the best location. Smack dab in the heart of downtown San Diego, next to the famous Convention Center, Gaslamp District, and much more, plus the waterfront steps away! And the whole area is immensely walkable.
In Nashville our minor league team has a nice home downtown, within walking distance of Broadway and apartments nearby. The Titan stadium on the other hand is across the river surrounded by asphalt.
@5:28, Gotta love those Sanborn maps. So gorgeous.
Yeah - looking at all the Chicago Two Flats for sale out there, I wish people went with incremental change for their bathrooms, kitchens, and door and window trim as well.
Portland’s Providence Park is remarkably well integrated into the neighborhood. It’s easily accessible on public transit and is around a ton of great commercial and residential spaces.
Great video. I think the ways in which stadiums and these kinds of infrastructure are being developed are such an interesting way to understand different types of infrastructure building and the ways these impact communities. When you compare stadiums in older parts of Europe to North American stadiums, the differences are massive, but then you see how these are built in places like China, Japan and South Korea, and you see different models too.