Have you retired early? If so, did you learn anything you can share to help others prevent these mistakes and missteps? For the full text of each of the Reddit posts we discussed in this episode, please see the show notes: twosidesoffi.com/how-not-to-fire-2/
Retiring in two weeks. Enjoying the content you guys are put out...I frequently see those kinds of posts on Reddit also, I'll admit they do concern me a little!!
I think if you are an extrovert, maybe barista fire is for you. Myself being an introvert am loving FI. I don't get bored and don't have a huge desire to be around people. I still catch up with friends on the weekend but my week is spent at home, in the garden or going for a walk.
It's a catch 22, people who have the money to fire because they concentrate on work so much but socially mentally need to work....the people who dont have enough money to fire dont need the work and has hobbies and enjoy not working, thus they dont have enough to fire....
Many stay at home moms who leave the workplace to then take care of kids go through this exact feeling of "regret" or wonder if they've made a mistake and even depression. It's not just about the money, but about the need for feeling like what you are doing is worth something or valuable. Babies and small kids don't voice appreciation like, perhaps, coworkers do--this can lead to resentment or feeling invaluable. It doesn't matter how much you rationalize that being a mom at home is super valuable, there is something different in being reminded of that regularly at a job. Thanks for another good one!
And then…..they leave. Trust me, the emptiness, omg. Many go through a wth did I do with my life phase because it’s like waking up on Mars in your 50’s, and having to find a second life of “ usefulness,” not to mention looking at your partner like “ who the heck are you?”
I wanted to stay at home with my new baby and the company I worked for was closing. I was lucky that I couldn't regret leaving my job. The first day I checked the clock and thought about the task I should be doing at work. I loved my job and new baby. I stayed home with my daughter for 14 years. One day, my grown son came home after working night shift and I asked him to help me get a job. Everything had changed since I had been in the workforce. He filled out my online application. He was on the hiring team so I got the job. I was so nervous my first day back at work. My life went from fast pace at work to a slow day at home. Then back to fast paced. Nobody gives women credit for the changes in life that we endure for our family. The credit goes to men who have been at the same job for 40+ years. Men who have never had to learn something new or evolve.
Really interesting, and I get it from a different perspective. We just paid off our mortgage, and depending on how we want to frame it, we are probably 3-8 years away from retirement. Having goals and being productive towards those goals fuels our purpose in life. Paying off our mortgage felt great and was a big accomplishment, but I also did feel a bit of a let down too, we likely won't have that big of a goal again in our lives. So, you need always be prepared to have something waiting to direct your energy and purpose.
if i retired early i wouldn't actually retire from working, i would just focus on my art and have the freedom to work on my passion projects without having to worry about if they are profitable. so i 100% understand wanting to continue with your career willingly cause i would basically be doing the same thing.
Many people agree with you completely! It's all about having the freedom to decide how / when / and how much you want to work - or do most other things!
I am more excited planning a trip. The research, searching for deals, and making/booking itinerary were so consuming and brain engaging that the actual destinations often were not as memorable or noteworthy. I think a lot of people love the challenge of FIRE but after it’s achieved, they would be thinking “is this all there is?” or “What now?”.
I agree, for some of us it’s about FI not RE. Reaching FI gave me the escape velocity I needed to set up and pursue my own business. I enjoy what I do and ironically make more money than I’ve ever made while working about 40% less. To get to this point, I had completely change my mental model about work. The biggest learning was accepting more uncertainty around income. If you stick with it and don’t give up, eventually things will turn your way. Now, every invoice I collect is a gift, not a financial necessity. Needless to say, I’m a lot less stressed. Reaching FI made this possible.
The lockdown was perfect for me. I became extremely creatively rather than dig in dig out. My expenses went from business rents of about 3500 a month to 1000 a month. so I ask myself why do I work so hard. Now I've built my dividends to be paying me about 1000 a month. As we speak, they just increased my salon rent again and asked me to sign an ultimatum one year lease. At that point I know I'm done. I've don't what I do for so long and I don't hate it or love it I just dont get any value from it like almost a decade ago when I started. I'm ready to move on but my clients still want me to be the person they knew about 10 years ago which is be available for them whenever they need their hair done even if it's just 1 person a day. It's a waste of my time sitting around and waiting on others while they actually live their lives. I can't waste another year after doing 4.5 years of having a salon business with no returns. I can do better with my life. I am an introvert and the only thing that takes me out of the house is the salon and most times these people are disrespectful of one's time...
Raise your rates and only work three or four days a week. Book your days and drop customers who aren't on time. Continue to treat your customers with respect but DEMAND respect from them. They must like your talent that's why they keep coming back not just because they can manipulate your time (see one person a day). Don't let them do that anymore. Your time is as valuable as theirs.
It is possible to find a purpose that is not about money. Perhaps the skill of measuring the value of what you do in ways that are not monetary would be a good start for those who regret RE.
I completely agree with you guys on this. You have to plan for retirement and as you put it, retire TO something. I have been visualizing what my retirement will look like for a long time now. For me, that includes taking courses in history and astronomy, volunteering, going to the gym, hiking, and slow travel 4 to 5 months a year. I wonder if these individuals are partnered because I could see how it could be very challenging to achieve sufficient socialization being single especially if all your friends are still working.
Right on, PT! It's really great that you've been doing that visualization work. We suspect it's going to make a very positive difference. Best wishes to you!
I really enjoy your channel - it puts a relatable face and personality to the FIRE movement that you only read about on blogs and Reddit. I can sort of relate the the guy who FIRE'd too lean for his true needs in that he did not make a detailed plan before he 'pulled the trigger' in that I can see myself not making a detailed plan. I can see myself focusing on the 'getting out of jail' element of FIRE and being lazy about the plan, or perhaps unrealistic about reality of life post FIRE. I can see myself saying "ah, three million should be about right," and just using that as my gauge. Strange, because on some things I really like to plan to the nth degree, but on other things I do not. I consistently save a good bit of money and probably will have the option for FI in the not-too-distant future, but have never been able to stick to a regimented budget and doubt I ever will.
Thank you! We appreciate your support. Your comments are well put. In many respects it's "easier" to focus on goal vs. the mechanics of how to get there. When it comes to finance, we've always found that doing your homework up front is the best insurance against surprises later on. And budgeting isn't essential for sure. But you do need to understand your expenses and be able to readily identify when you need to change habits. Best wishes to you
I dream of a life where I would be able do more volunteering, so essentially unpaid work. I’m selfemployed now and wouldn’t necessarily stop entirely but definitely scale back. I already do some volunteering already. So it would mean switching time allocation.
I retired at 52 and I'm now 67. ER was easy for me. I love to play golf and travel some. I didn't care for work so I don't miss it at all. I guess if someone doesn't have any hobbies or like to travel then they may be SOL. I would hate to think I had to work just to stay busy and not be bored. But to each their own.....
I don't think retirement to do nothing works for many people. I want to reduce my work hours in the future to do more of other things. I want to remodel our home and do much of the work myself. I want to have experiences and travel with my wife and kids more often. I want to play over 100 video games that I haven't had the time for. I want more evenings with my wife drinking a glass of wine and watching one of the classics neither of us have seen. I want to do more gardening. I love growing salad and having some at home most of the year. I'd like a herb garden too. Sure, I'll probably take a week every now and then where I just want to lounge. But that's not the primary thing I'm after. If I run low on things to do I'll just start working more again. I might swap the field I am in and do something completely different. Or maybe I'll study for a few years.
Your podcast is very informative, but I wish Eric would not cut Jason off as he shares his experiences. This is a common theme throughout all of the episodes. Please allow him to finish his thoughts before jumping in to share your opinion.
If I achieved FI, I think Id still work, but my tolerance for bullshit would be literally zero. It gives you the freedom to walk out of a shitty job without worried about paying the bills.
LOL! I finally got my wife to review all our investments and savings and she realized we had achieved FI and no longer need to work. Her current boss is a bit of a micromanaging a-hole and she had been looking for another job but now will just stick it out till the end of the year unless he totally pisses her off. If he does that, she said she would just quit immediately. It's a good feeling to not be shackled to a job.
I agree with you. I have enjoyed my job more knowing that I can walk out anytime. I prepaid all my fixed expenses for 1 year in advance. This has helped me sleep better at night.
No way will I miss my work when I do retire. Maybe I will get some part time job doing something I will enjoy, but on my terms, not that I will need an income. I just say find something you will enjoy, or volunteer someplace and you can socialize with others. To each its own
I was fortunate to have a few mini retirements starting in my 30s and so I got a taste of what I would want to do in my mind versus what I actually did and executed on. The difference surprised me. However it was very important to have gone through that exercise in real time not just on a spreadsheet. Really executing on the things that I said I wanted to. Also I realized that some things on my to do list I got done within a few weeks and others I had no real interest in doing at all. Finally the greatest takeaway for me since my journey began was not to get caught up in anybody else’s definition of FIRE and figure out what FIRE meant to me and how I could execute it, realistically.
This is the problem with people who have built their identity around their job and they were obviously good at is since they were able to hit FIRE. They go down a journey to remove themselves from that structure where they were great and appreciated, they have fun building up their financial resources because it is almost like a game, and then once they removed themselves from the work structure they don't know who they are or what they should do. They have finished the FIRE journey and they have finished their work structure at the same time. It is an issue and I am worried out it. In some ways it might be a little like having your whole life built around your kids, going to every soccer practice, going to every road game, and then they go off to college and they decide to stay there for the summer. Some parents have a hard time with that. Note I am still a couple years out of being retired and I am spending my time learning a new language, learning the piano, specing out RVs to go full time, I have gotten back into reading, etc. I do not want to be caught flat footed when I retire.
This is exactly what I went thru. I retired at 55 and went thru some emotional and ego changes as my life was so centered around job and my title as to how I defined myself and my purpose. We all are going to to thru it at some time - but I did it in my 50s. Looking back I wish I had a better plan but almost 5 years later I'm in a much better place and consider myself semi-retired as I became a co-owner of a small gym business. This has helped with some additional income and a means of retaining some socialization. It provides a new purpose and reasoning for getting up in the morning. Helping people become more fit and healthy has been a great purpose.
Everyone is different. Some people must have a job to keep them anchored. Some don't. My job is not my life. I have a few friends from my career but most are from outside of my work history and environment. You definitely need to retire to something. Your days, weeks and months need to have a schedule of things you are going to do. For us, we like to travel, visit family all around the US, game nights with friends and neighbors, weekly group cookouts, going to festivals/events, hiking, biking, canoes, camping. and the list goes on. We plan to spend months out of country doing slow travel. We know our numbers and we live on very little compared to normal people it appears so we can allocate 20 and 30 K a year for just travel. Play music. Learn to play a couple instruments. Learn another language.. Give some time to charities, etc. There is a ton of things to keep you engaged, but you have to get out of the house and go do....
Our work often defines us. Sometimes the journey is better than the destination. It has turned out to be the harder part of FIRE. The FI calls into question the "why" of RE. Having a plan for a post work life makes all the difference and for many to keep working in some respect is the utopia they were searching for all along. To keep going but now on better terms (work hours or situation) with your work and life balance.
My husband and I are on our mid 30s, if everything goes on track we are 6-7 yrs away to FI. RE in our dictionary is “slowing down” not completely stop. We are trying to shifting our active income to more passive and we are liking it. Although we understand FI is not an event but a process, but the burning desire of getting there really fuels the purpose of our life.
I think a lot of us guys don't have many close friends either (I think research has confirmed this), so for many people leaving work means leaving friends/social group. But guess it's hard if you FIRE and want to hang out with your friends but they're all working/busy lol! Need more FIRE friends I guess...
I think for people that aren't sure about retirement should take a sabbatical or leave of absence to test the waters. It's not for everyone that's for sure. I don't hate my job but I can not wait until I'm not working anymore. I went through a bunch of resources (like this channel) to make sure I have a plan in place.
My why is simple, not having someone tell me what I *have* to do. The affordability to choose what I want when I want. I learned this when I was in debt in my mid-20s and strapped with debt. Now since I discovered some form of financial independence. I now currently have the net worth of someone in their early 40s in my early 30s. Knowing this has allowed me to not feel as scared about my future and has taken the pressure off from the corporate overlords. My boss wanting me to do something they want.....cool.....that's ok....My boss wanting me to break the rules so they look good for their boss.....(No), "sorry, I can work at Starbucks the rest of my life now and still have a good retirement." *That* is a powerful thing. The power to say *NO*. Is ok...and is a right that a lot of people don't have the luxury of doing these days and is probably one of the prime reasons why people seek FIRE.
I think what I would look for in FI would be the optionality it would give me to work as much or as little as I wanted to (assuming marketability in the market etc).
I'm so glad that you both spend a great deal of time in many of your posts, including this one, about the non-financial aspects of fi. It's so clear that fi is not the be all end all. As a therapist (and the research confirms this), it's clear to me that the best predictor of well-being is the quality of one's interpersonal relationships. You both clearly appreciate this. Will running out of money and being poor also bring you suffering? Of course. Thanks guys I've learned a lot from you.
Thanks, Ed! That's high praise and we truly appreciate it. There's a ton of useful content in the FIRE community on the financial aspects, of course. But life is a lot more complex than the numbers, even though it's easier just to keep your head down and think on those topics. Thanks so much for the feedback.
I love my job. Hubby and I are 48 and 50. We work part time because we like the purpose of work. We tell people we are semi retired. You can reach FIRE and not turn the work tap off completely. My hubby is going back to working full time next year because he feels he wants the challenge of work in his life. The point is to have the choice and options that financial independence offers. One size does not fit all. It's about finding your own personal balance.
I plan to retire early as well but will definitely work part-time. I love what I do, I just want more control over my time. 3 days per week will be perfect.
@@DrDianeThompson sounds great! That's precisely the freedom FI buys you. As It seems from your photo that you are a medical doctor, do you read/listen to The White Coat Investor? We both really like it. Best wishes to you on your journey!
Thanks for these video series. I fell into Fire during pandemic and found that I could work remote and pull in a secondary job. I'm 3 jobs in and I'm working to FIRE at least by 40. Currently 35. I have lots of hobbies and things I want to do once I Fire. Hearing others concerns is helpful since it puts a light on what it means to actually live. We design our life around work and once you remove that, it can feel weird I'm sure. Thanks again!
It's great to hear it's not been a struggle so far! Emotions certainly do change over time, and it's good that you're aware of that. Best wishes to you!
sometimes these kind of feelings occur when they are always bombarded with so what are you doing with your life or what would you do next? and if they don't have a strong mental state they can crumble into these kind of feelings...
Great video, very interesting points and discussion. Having a budget to cover all of your needs and wants before RE is so critical. I think for the people who "miss the bigger budget" weren't really being honest with how much they were spending. I do also think it's impossible to estimate an exact budget in retirement because so much changes when you leave work. In saying that, contingencies can help mitigate any overages you might have in RE. Another point is that you have to have a life outside of work to retire TO. I like the idea of taking a retirement "test run" before fully committing to RE, then you can see what's missing in your life and start building those things outside of the workplace.
Financial independence is a great achievement. However, one should continue to work enough to continue to grow professionally while maintaining skills because most of us cannot completely guarantee FI for many years. Too many pitfalls. And you might have to take a job again. Be prepared!
We appreciate the thought, Phil, and there's no disagreement on being thoroughly prepared. That said, if one has truly achieved FI, you've bought the freedom not to work if that's not your aim. Of course many still do, even if in a different field or at reduced hours. We've all got to do what seems best for us and our families to ensure needs are met.
Retiring next week. But point is I can always go back to work if I WANT to BUT I don't HAVE to that's the point...the point isn't retiring it's the do whatever I want...the could be back to work, or pick up hobbies, or do nothing.
Jason here - early congratulations to you, David! I agree with you 100% and I spoke to this point in an earlier episode. Doing whatever you want is great! Best wishes to you.
I enjoyed this 2 parter, my wife and I are planning a drastic downsize in both living situation and budget when we RE. Hearing pros and cons help with the planning, keep up the good content Fellas!
You ALWAYS need more money than you think you do and I know that I would need at least a part time job somewhere just to keep busy because I don't have hobbies
We agree, Gilbert. Putting guardrails around your budget is really important. People certainly differ on how they want to spend their time - travel, hobbies, volunteering, and work are common. But we do need fulfilling things to do!
Hey guys, love the videos/podcast. Lots of great information. The biggest concern I have come up with when trying to figure out monthly expenses to plug into a calculator is do I need to pad that number to include the income tax that will be taken out? In other words if my monthly spend is 7500, do I need to add roughly 22% or so to account for federal/state/local income taxes that may be withdrawn (assuming that this is not a Roth IRA and are gains on a 401K)? Just trying to get my estimates down.. Thanks again
Hi Jeff, thanks! We're glad you're enjoy it. Yes, for most of these calculators you do need to plan for taxes. It's very tricky to accommodate tax planning into tools given how variable different scenarios are - asset location, income level, etc. Certain tools like NewRetirement.com and others do make some accounting for taxes, while cFIREsim does not. So you're right to be digging into this topic. Yet one more perspective worth considering is how to reduce your tax burden. Articles like this one provide some good starting points for further investigation: www.gocurrycracker.com/never-pay-taxes-again/ Above all, tax planning is a great opportunity to consider bringing a professional into the picture - even just as a sanity check on an hourly consulting basis. Good luck to you!
These are great videos. I achieved FI about 6 months ago and wish I had thought more about what I would do once I got here. I'm still doing project work but that's about to wrap up and now I get to decide what's next. Personally, I think it's a fun challenge. But, that being said, covid has been a challenge because I want to expand my in person social network, though I know the pandemic will end at some point soon I hope! I do wonder if the people writing in are having a harder time due to the pandemic ? While personally I've welcomed the hunkering down to avoid covid it can feel isolating too.
Jason here - Thanks for the comment, Kathryn. I think you're 100% right. I've talked about the impact of moving + FIRE during COVID in earlier episodes. At least for me there's certainly truth to the isolation that combo can lead to. There certainly were some benefits for me as well, namely time to think hard about the changes from FIRE, writing about it, and working on this show with Eric. Belated congrats on your FIRE achievement and we wish you all the best.
I shared in one of your previous vid posts I used to counsel my clients (I was a financial advisor for 27 years) on all the pitfalls of retirement, all retirement ages, depression is the #1 pitfall, the most common, for most people. The second was helping married couples adjust to each other now they are together nearly 24/7. Husbands coming into their wives space, the home (most of my clients were one income families), and the wife feeling as if she had been invaded. I could make a whole video on all that myself LOL.
Thanks for sharing, Ron. We're not surprised to hear these are so common. We are talking about big change here! In your FA career were there common financial mistakes you saw new retirees making - whether early retirement or otherwise?
@@TwoSidesOfFI actually, two sides of the coin, one group would spend too much in early retirement, specifically buying a bus or trailer to “travel the country” without ever having done that and go on 2 trips and then never again but have this six figure home on wheels that just sat doing nothing (for example). The other side of the coin was people just sitting at home doing nothing not enjoying life afraid to spend a dime. I have numerous stories of both. Lots of mistakes are made in the first 24 months of retirement.
Guilty as charged - I sold my company and retired early (45). I didn't think enough about the retired life before it happened and within months I was back working because I got bored. I'm not a socialite, I don't socialise much, so that wasn't the issue. The problem was feeling of job satisfaction had disappeared and hadn't been replaced by anything substantial enough. I can't sit around and do nothing. I don't watch much TV, I don't like gardening etc, etc. I'd retired "from" something, but not "to" something. 13 years later I'm looking to retire again, but this time I know exactly what I'll do with my time and can't wait.
Thanks for sharing, Dave. From what we have read this combination is very common. Very happy to learn that you have a good plan and we wish you all the best! Keep us posted on how you’re doing!
My father is an old-school early retiree - he retired when he was 54 from the Navy's civil service, back in the late 90's when they were trying to downsize the military, and offered early retirement to whoever wanted it. His comment is that he's more busy now than he was when he was working - but he planned on it being that way. He's an engineer and a project manager, so he had multiple long-term projects lined up: building a house (took 5 years or so), upgrading his church after decades of neglect (took 10 years), voulenteering for a variety of charities (ongoing), managing his diabetes (ongoing), travelling to Alaska/Australia/Hawaii (grandkids and vacations) multiple times a year, etc. He's the kind of person that likes to have projects, but he's also a person who takes his doctor's advice seriously - so when his doctor said "don't sit down. If you sit down, your diabetes will kill you", he took that to heart. For someone in his mid-70's, he's in excellent shape and eats fantastically. I'm 46 now, and looking potentially to retire at 55 - and I'm realizing that I REALLY need that sort of structure to look forward to, as well. My own hobbies are fine, but they really don't give you a "reason to get up in the morning" kind of impetus that his do.
Thanks for the comment, Kevin. There's so much merit in the story about your father. Some kind of structure - looser for some, more rigid for others, is definitely a helpful framework as well as source of motivation. Best wishes to you!
I'm really enjoying your videos. Alot of fire channels seem to be people just trying to obtain fire and not necessarily looking at it in an objective way. So I really appreciate your opinions coming from both sides. I suppose your full time job becomes occupying every hour of the day. My grandfather worked quite often 7 days a week, for like 40 years but when he retired, he found other things to do. Simple things often, gardening, travel, dancing. He enjoyed 30 years of retirement with my grandmother and I hope to emulate that. Keep up the good content guys, its soo valuable
Working with my therapist for years now on creating hobbies. But she said something that made it a little easier when she pointed out it doesn’t have to be a passion. But maybe just a past time.
My wife (36) and I (42) have obtained "Lean FI" and will move to the Philippines April 2022 (tickets purchased, land owned, budget to build house in place). I left the workforce July 2021, many things you discuss are real. Three (3) months into not working and I understand the lack of motivation exists but I ensure it does not affect my well-being. I find there is a large amount of time to work on skills I wanted to increase knowledge in. My wife is a travel ICU nurse, she takes assignments when monotony sets in. I am happy that I went through the "RE" before my wife because I seem to handle change better than she does. My advice to anyone going through this process is to define what uplifts you and how you define self worth because it is "YOU" who must deal with the change in environment. You choose what you do! Lastly, remember, what you want to do determines your number; your number is not supposed to define what you do.
Common Thread. Ready-Shoot-Aim. It would be interesting to know how many people live in the US. Here in the US, it seems like the majority of successful people define themselves by their job and not what they do outside of work. I know a few people who retired, even at normal retirement age, and found they were unfulfilled in their new life.
that's because some of them I've met always talk about other people and when they are now out of work, they no longer have stories of other people to exchange with when they interact with others.
Have you retired early? If so, did you learn anything you can share to help others prevent these mistakes and missteps? For the full text of each of the Reddit posts we discussed in this episode, please see the show notes: twosidesoffi.com/how-not-to-fire-2/
Retiring in two weeks. Enjoying the content you guys are put out...I frequently see those kinds of posts on Reddit also, I'll admit they do concern me a little!!
I think if you are an extrovert, maybe barista fire is for you. Myself being an introvert am loving FI. I don't get bored and don't have a huge desire to be around people. I still catch up with friends on the weekend but my week is spent at home, in the garden or going for a walk.
@@tvstation8102 congrats on your impending retirement! Please keep us posted on how things go.
Thanks for sharing! And that's the freedom we've bought with FI, right? Sounds like you made the right decision. Best wishes to you.
It's a catch 22, people who have the money to fire because they concentrate on work so much but socially mentally need to work....the people who dont have enough money to fire dont need the work and has hobbies and enjoy not working, thus they dont have enough to fire....
Many stay at home moms who leave the workplace to then take care of kids go through this exact feeling of "regret" or wonder if they've made a mistake and even depression. It's not just about the money, but about the need for feeling like what you are doing is worth something or valuable. Babies and small kids don't voice appreciation like, perhaps, coworkers do--this can lead to resentment or feeling invaluable. It doesn't matter how much you rationalize that being a mom at home is super valuable, there is something different in being reminded of that regularly at a job. Thanks for another good one!
Thanks, Amy. This is really helpful perspective!
And then…..they leave. Trust me, the emptiness, omg. Many go through a wth did I do with my life phase because it’s like waking up on Mars in your 50’s, and having to find a second life of “ usefulness,” not to mention looking at your partner like “ who the heck are you?”
It's really too bad. I loved staying home with my kids but you have to be strong because there is little social support.
I wanted to stay at home with my new baby and the company I worked for was closing. I was lucky that I couldn't regret leaving my job. The first day I checked the clock and thought about the task I should be doing at work. I loved my job and new baby.
I stayed home with my daughter for 14 years. One day, my grown son came home after working night shift and I asked him to help me get a job. Everything had changed since I had been in the workforce. He filled out my online application. He was on the hiring team so I got the job. I was so nervous my first day back at work.
My life went from fast pace at work to a slow day at home. Then back to fast paced. Nobody gives women credit for the changes in life that we endure for our family. The credit goes to men who have been at the same job for 40+ years. Men who have never had to learn something new or evolve.
Really interesting, and I get it from a different perspective. We just paid off our mortgage, and depending on how we want to frame it, we are probably 3-8 years away from retirement. Having goals and being productive towards those goals fuels our purpose in life. Paying off our mortgage felt great and was a big accomplishment, but I also did feel a bit of a let down too, we likely won't have that big of a goal again in our lives. So, you need always be prepared to have something waiting to direct your energy and purpose.
if i retired early i wouldn't actually retire from working, i would just focus on my art and have the freedom to work on my passion projects without having to worry about if they are profitable. so i 100% understand wanting to continue with your career willingly cause i would basically be doing the same thing.
Many people agree with you completely! It's all about having the freedom to decide how / when / and how much you want to work - or do most other things!
I am more excited planning a trip. The research, searching for deals, and making/booking itinerary were so consuming and brain engaging that the actual destinations often were not as memorable or noteworthy. I think a lot of people love the challenge of FIRE but after it’s achieved, they would be thinking “is this all there is?” or “What now?”.
I totally agree with this and wonder if I’ll be like this
A good book that helped me before and after I reached FIRE was "The Joy of Not Working" by Ernie Zelinski. A goofy read but full of great advice
Thanks for sharing, Anthony!
I agree, for some of us it’s about FI not RE. Reaching FI gave me the escape velocity I needed to set up and pursue my own business. I enjoy what I do and ironically make more money than I’ve ever made while working about 40% less. To get to this point, I had completely change my mental model about work. The biggest learning was accepting more uncertainty around income. If you stick with it and don’t give up, eventually things will turn your way. Now, every invoice I collect is a gift, not a financial necessity. Needless to say, I’m a lot less stressed. Reaching FI made this possible.
Sounds great, Erich! Congrats on your achievements!
The lockdown was perfect for me. I became extremely creatively rather than dig in dig out. My expenses went from business rents of about 3500 a month to 1000 a month. so I ask myself why do I work so hard. Now I've built my dividends to be paying me about 1000 a month. As we speak, they just increased my salon rent again and asked me to sign an ultimatum one year lease. At that point I know I'm done. I've don't what I do for so long and I don't hate it or love it I just dont get any value from it like almost a decade ago when I started. I'm ready to move on but my clients still want me to be the person they knew about 10 years ago which is be available for them whenever they need their hair done even if it's just 1 person a day. It's a waste of my time sitting around and waiting on others while they actually live their lives. I can't waste another year after doing 4.5 years of having a salon business with no returns. I can do better with my life. I am an introvert and the only thing that takes me out of the house is the salon and most times these people are disrespectful of one's time...
Raise your rates and only work three or four days a week. Book your days and drop customers who aren't on time. Continue to treat your customers with respect but DEMAND respect from them. They must like your talent that's why they keep coming back not just because they can manipulate your time (see one person a day). Don't let them do that anymore. Your time is as valuable as theirs.
It is possible to find a purpose that is not about money. Perhaps the skill of measuring the value of what you do in ways that are not monetary would be a good start for those who regret RE.
We agree 100%. Thanks
I completely agree with you guys on this. You have to plan for retirement and as you put it, retire TO something. I have been visualizing what my retirement will look like for a long time now. For me, that includes taking courses in history and astronomy, volunteering, going to the gym, hiking, and slow travel 4 to 5 months a year. I wonder if these individuals are partnered because I could see how it could be very challenging to achieve sufficient socialization being single especially if all your friends are still working.
Right on, PT! It's really great that you've been doing that visualization work. We suspect it's going to make a very positive difference. Best wishes to you!
I really enjoy your channel - it puts a relatable face and personality to the FIRE movement that you only read about on blogs and Reddit. I can sort of relate the the guy who FIRE'd too lean for his true needs in that he did not make a detailed plan before he 'pulled the trigger' in that I can see myself not making a detailed plan. I can see myself focusing on the 'getting out of jail' element of FIRE and being lazy about the plan, or perhaps unrealistic about reality of life post FIRE. I can see myself saying "ah, three million should be about right," and just using that as my gauge. Strange, because on some things I really like to plan to the nth degree, but on other things I do not. I consistently save a good bit of money and probably will have the option for FI in the not-too-distant future, but have never been able to stick to a regimented budget and doubt I ever will.
Thank you! We appreciate your support. Your comments are well put. In many respects it's "easier" to focus on goal vs. the mechanics of how to get there. When it comes to finance, we've always found that doing your homework up front is the best insurance against surprises later on. And budgeting isn't essential for sure. But you do need to understand your expenses and be able to readily identify when you need to change habits. Best wishes to you
I dream of a life where I would be able do more volunteering, so essentially unpaid work. I’m selfemployed now and wouldn’t necessarily stop entirely but definitely scale back. I already do some volunteering already. So it would mean switching time allocation.
Someone needs to create a Fire Game app. That's a hobby I'd get behind 😂
The title of this post could also be, "Wow, I did not see that coming!"
I retired at 52 and I'm now 67. ER was easy for me. I love to play golf and travel some. I didn't care for work so I don't miss it at all. I guess if someone doesn't have any hobbies or like to travel then they may be SOL. I would hate to think I had to work just to stay busy and not be bored. But to each their own.....
I don't think retirement to do nothing works for many people. I want to reduce my work hours in the future to do more of other things. I want to remodel our home and do much of the work myself. I want to have experiences and travel with my wife and kids more often. I want to play over 100 video games that I haven't had the time for. I want more evenings with my wife drinking a glass of wine and watching one of the classics neither of us have seen. I want to do more gardening. I love growing salad and having some at home most of the year. I'd like a herb garden too.
Sure, I'll probably take a week every now and then where I just want to lounge. But that's not the primary thing I'm after. If I run low on things to do I'll just start working more again. I might swap the field I am in and do something completely different. Or maybe I'll study for a few years.
We agree 100%! You've got lots of great ideas and we're sure there are many other areas of interest for you as well. Best wishes to you
Your podcast is very informative, but I wish Eric would not cut Jason off as he shares his experiences. This is a common theme throughout all of the episodes. Please allow him to finish his thoughts before jumping in to share your opinion.
If I achieved FI, I think Id still work, but my tolerance for bullshit would be literally zero.
It gives you the freedom to walk out of a shitty job without worried about paying the bills.
LOL! I finally got my wife to review all our investments and savings and she realized we had achieved FI and no longer need to work. Her current boss is a bit of a micromanaging a-hole and she had been looking for another job but now will just stick it out till the end of the year unless he totally pisses her off. If he does that, she said she would just quit immediately. It's a good feeling to not be shackled to a job.
I agree with you. I have enjoyed my job more knowing that I can walk out anytime. I prepaid all my fixed expenses for 1 year in advance. This has helped me sleep better at night.
No way will I miss my work when I do retire. Maybe I will get some part time job doing something I will enjoy, but on my terms, not that I will need an income. I just say find something you will enjoy, or volunteer someplace and you can socialize with others. To each its own
I was fortunate to have a few mini retirements starting in my 30s and so I got a taste of what I would want to do in my mind versus what I actually did and executed on.
The difference surprised me. However it was very important to have gone through that exercise in real time not just on a spreadsheet. Really executing on the things that I said I wanted to. Also I realized that some things on my to do list I got done within a few weeks and others I had no real interest in doing at all.
Finally the greatest takeaway for me since my journey began was not to get caught up in anybody else’s definition of FIRE and figure out what FIRE meant to me and how I could execute it, realistically.
Mini-retirements clearly have tons of benefit - awesome that you got to "try on" retirement! Thanks so much for sharing your experiences.
This is the problem with people who have built their identity around their job and they were obviously good at is since they were able to hit FIRE. They go down a journey to remove themselves from that structure where they were great and appreciated, they have fun building up their financial resources because it is almost like a game, and then once they removed themselves from the work structure they don't know who they are or what they should do. They have finished the FIRE journey and they have finished their work structure at the same time. It is an issue and I am worried out it. In some ways it might be a little like having your whole life built around your kids, going to every soccer practice, going to every road game, and then they go off to college and they decide to stay there for the summer. Some parents have a hard time with that. Note I am still a couple years out of being retired and I am spending my time learning a new language, learning the piano, specing out RVs to go full time, I have gotten back into reading, etc. I do not want to be caught flat footed when I retire.
Excellent point.
This is exactly what I went thru. I retired at 55 and went thru some emotional and ego changes as my life was so centered around job and my title as to how I defined myself and my purpose. We all are going to to thru it at some time - but I did it in my 50s. Looking back I wish I had a better plan but almost 5 years later I'm in a much better place and consider myself semi-retired as I became a co-owner of a small gym business. This has helped with some additional income and a means of retaining some socialization. It provides a new purpose and reasoning for getting up in the morning. Helping people become more fit and healthy has been a great purpose.
Everyone is different. Some people must have a job to keep them anchored. Some don't. My job is not my life. I have a few friends from my career but most are from outside of my work history and environment. You definitely need to retire to something. Your days, weeks and months need to have a schedule of things you are going to do. For us, we like to travel, visit family all around the US, game nights with friends and neighbors, weekly group cookouts, going to festivals/events, hiking, biking, canoes, camping. and the list goes on. We plan to spend months out of country doing slow travel. We know our numbers and we live on very little compared to normal people it appears so we can allocate 20 and 30 K a year for just travel. Play music. Learn to play a couple instruments. Learn another language.. Give some time to charities, etc. There is a ton of things to keep you engaged, but you have to get out of the house and go do....
Our work often defines us. Sometimes the journey is better than the destination. It has turned out to be the harder part of FIRE. The FI calls into question the "why" of RE. Having a plan for a post work life makes all the difference and for many to keep working in some respect is the utopia they were searching for all along. To keep going but now on better terms (work hours or situation) with your work and life balance.
So true, Ray. There's a good reason the topic of "what are you retiring to" comes up so often in retirement (FIRE or otherwise) blogs + articles.
My husband and I are on our mid 30s, if everything goes on track we are 6-7 yrs away to FI. RE in our dictionary is “slowing down” not completely stop. We are trying to shifting our active income to more passive and we are liking it. Although we understand FI is not an event but a process, but the burning desire of getting there really fuels the purpose of our life.
I think a lot of us guys don't have many close friends either (I think research has confirmed this), so for many people leaving work means leaving friends/social group. But guess it's hard if you FIRE and want to hang out with your friends but they're all working/busy lol! Need more FIRE friends I guess...
I think for people that aren't sure about retirement should take a sabbatical or leave of absence to test the waters. It's not for everyone that's for sure. I don't hate my job but I can not wait until I'm not working anymore. I went through a bunch of resources (like this channel) to make sure I have a plan in place.
My why is simple, not having someone tell me what I *have* to do. The affordability to choose what I want when I want. I learned this when I was in debt in my mid-20s and strapped with debt. Now since I discovered some form of financial independence. I now currently have the net worth of someone in their early 40s in my early 30s. Knowing this has allowed me to not feel as scared about my future and has taken the pressure off from the corporate overlords. My boss wanting me to do something they want.....cool.....that's ok....My boss wanting me to break the rules so they look good for their boss.....(No), "sorry, I can work at Starbucks the rest of my life now and still have a good retirement." *That* is a powerful thing. The power to say *NO*. Is ok...and is a right that a lot of people don't have the luxury of doing these days and is probably one of the prime reasons why people seek FIRE.
I think what I would look for in FI would be the optionality it would give me to work as much or as little as I wanted to (assuming marketability in the market etc).
Exactly! Optionality is a huge advantage.
I'm so glad that you both spend a great deal of time in many of your posts, including this one, about the non-financial aspects of fi. It's so clear that fi is not the be all end all. As a therapist (and the research confirms this), it's clear to me that the best predictor of well-being is the quality of one's interpersonal relationships. You both clearly appreciate this. Will running out of money and being poor also bring you suffering? Of course. Thanks guys I've learned a lot from you.
Thanks, Ed! That's high praise and we truly appreciate it. There's a ton of useful content in the FIRE community on the financial aspects, of course. But life is a lot more complex than the numbers, even though it's easier just to keep your head down and think on those topics. Thanks so much for the feedback.
I love my job. Hubby and I are 48 and 50. We work part time because we like the purpose of work. We tell people we are semi retired. You can reach FIRE and not turn the work tap off completely. My hubby is going back to working full time next year because he feels he wants the challenge of work in his life. The point is to have the choice and options that financial independence offers. One size does not fit all. It's about finding your own personal balance.
Well put, Ruby! Thank you
I plan to retire early as well but will definitely work part-time. I love what I do, I just want more control over my time. 3 days per week will be perfect.
@@DrDianeThompson sounds great! That's precisely the freedom FI buys you. As It seems from your photo that you are a medical doctor, do you read/listen to The White Coat Investor? We both really like it. Best wishes to you on your journey!
i've found i'm a better and happier worker once i reached FI.. it's always nice to have that FU money in back pocket
Great! Very true
Thanks for these video series. I fell into Fire during pandemic and found that I could work remote and pull in a secondary job. I'm 3 jobs in and I'm working to FIRE at least by 40. Currently 35. I have lots of hobbies and things I want to do once I Fire. Hearing others concerns is helpful since it puts a light on what it means to actually live. We design our life around work and once you remove that, it can feel weird I'm sure. Thanks again!
That's awesome, Paul. Best wishes to you on your journey!
I thought I was going to struggle with my identity without a job but just loving everyday! Suspect it will be a moving target to stay content though!
It's great to hear it's not been a struggle so far! Emotions certainly do change over time, and it's good that you're aware of that. Best wishes to you!
sometimes these kind of feelings occur when they are always bombarded with so what are you doing with your life or what would you do next? and if they don't have a strong mental state they can crumble into these kind of feelings...
Great video, very interesting points and discussion. Having a budget to cover all of your needs and wants before RE is so critical. I think for the people who "miss the bigger budget" weren't really being honest with how much they were spending. I do also think it's impossible to estimate an exact budget in retirement because so much changes when you leave work. In saying that, contingencies can help mitigate any overages you might have in RE. Another point is that you have to have a life outside of work to retire TO. I like the idea of taking a retirement "test run" before fully committing to RE, then you can see what's missing in your life and start building those things outside of the workplace.
Thank you very much! Very well put!
Financial independence is a great achievement. However, one should continue to work enough to continue to grow professionally while maintaining skills because most of us cannot completely guarantee FI for many years. Too many pitfalls. And you might have to take a job again. Be prepared!
We appreciate the thought, Phil, and there's no disagreement on being thoroughly prepared. That said, if one has truly achieved FI, you've bought the freedom not to work if that's not your aim. Of course many still do, even if in a different field or at reduced hours. We've all got to do what seems best for us and our families to ensure needs are met.
Thanks so much for having the conversations guys- really helps us to feel like we are not the only ones going through such things.
Retiring next week. But point is I can always go back to work if I WANT to BUT I don't HAVE to that's the point...the point isn't retiring it's the do whatever I want...the could be back to work, or pick up hobbies, or do nothing.
Jason here - early congratulations to you, David! I agree with you 100% and I spoke to this point in an earlier episode. Doing whatever you want is great! Best wishes to you.
I enjoyed this 2 parter, my wife and I are planning a drastic downsize in both living situation and budget when we RE. Hearing pros and cons help with the planning, keep up the good content Fellas!
Just a suggestion to test the new budget before the retirement 😉 that way you could make the appropriate adjustments. 👍 Congrats on your journey 👍
@@k24hybrid We would love to test the budget, but we planning on moving to a cheaper country and the budget won't correlate here in the US.
@@Deltron6060 yeah, that's right. Maybe talking to a friend/expat/youtuber in similar position could help. Best of luck 😃👍
@@k24hybrid Yes sir!!
You ALWAYS need more money than you think you do and I know that I would need at least a part time job somewhere just to keep busy because I don't have hobbies
We agree, Gilbert. Putting guardrails around your budget is really important. People certainly differ on how they want to spend their time - travel, hobbies, volunteering, and work are common. But we do need fulfilling things to do!
Hey guys, love the videos/podcast. Lots of great information. The biggest concern I have come up with when trying to figure out monthly expenses to plug into a calculator is do I need to pad that number to include the income tax that will be taken out? In other words if my monthly spend is 7500, do I need to add roughly 22% or so to account for federal/state/local income taxes that may be withdrawn (assuming that this is not a Roth IRA and are gains on a 401K)? Just trying to get my estimates down.. Thanks again
Hi Jeff, thanks! We're glad you're enjoy it. Yes, for most of these calculators you do need to plan for taxes. It's very tricky to accommodate tax planning into tools given how variable different scenarios are - asset location, income level, etc. Certain tools like NewRetirement.com and others do make some accounting for taxes, while cFIREsim does not. So you're right to be digging into this topic. Yet one more perspective worth considering is how to reduce your tax burden. Articles like this one provide some good starting points for further investigation: www.gocurrycracker.com/never-pay-taxes-again/
Above all, tax planning is a great opportunity to consider bringing a professional into the picture - even just as a sanity check on an hourly consulting basis. Good luck to you!
Awesome content. Thank you!
Glad you liked it! Thanks for your support.
@@TwoSidesOfFI I do. You guys have amazing videos. I’m glad I found you. The perspective you offer is hard to find and very valuable.
These are great videos. I achieved FI about 6 months ago and wish I had thought more about what I would do once I got here. I'm still doing project work but that's about to wrap up and now I get to decide what's next. Personally, I think it's a fun challenge. But, that being said, covid has been a challenge because I want to expand my in person social network, though I know the pandemic will end at some point soon I hope! I do wonder if the people writing in are having a harder time due to the pandemic ? While personally I've welcomed the hunkering down to avoid covid it can feel isolating too.
Jason here - Thanks for the comment, Kathryn. I think you're 100% right. I've talked about the impact of moving + FIRE during COVID in earlier episodes. At least for me there's certainly truth to the isolation that combo can lead to. There certainly were some benefits for me as well, namely time to think hard about the changes from FIRE, writing about it, and working on this show with Eric. Belated congrats on your FIRE achievement and we wish you all the best.
Noticed the browser tabs. What's your current crypto allocation (as a % of NW)?
Stay tuned for an upcoming episode on asset allocation!
@@TwoSidesOfFI Excellent, TY. Enjoying the content.
@@skibum303 Thank you!
I shared in one of your previous vid posts I used to counsel my clients (I was a financial advisor for 27 years) on all the pitfalls of retirement, all retirement ages, depression is the #1 pitfall, the most common, for most people. The second was helping married couples adjust to each other now they are together nearly 24/7. Husbands coming into their wives space, the home (most of my clients were one income families), and the wife feeling as if she had been invaded. I could make a whole video on all that myself LOL.
Thanks for sharing, Ron. We're not surprised to hear these are so common. We are talking about big change here! In your FA career were there common financial mistakes you saw new retirees making - whether early retirement or otherwise?
@@TwoSidesOfFI actually, two sides of the coin, one group would spend too much in early retirement, specifically buying a bus or trailer to “travel the country” without ever having done that and go on 2 trips and then never again but have this six figure home on wheels that just sat doing nothing (for example). The other side of the coin was people just sitting at home doing nothing not enjoying life afraid to spend a dime. I have numerous stories of both. Lots of mistakes are made in the first 24 months of retirement.
@@Ronaldalan114 We can readily see people falling into both camps. Hopefully in most cases, people figured it out and moved on happily. Thanks
Guilty as charged - I sold my company and retired early (45). I didn't think enough about the retired life before it happened and within months I was back working because I got bored. I'm not a socialite, I don't socialise much, so that wasn't the issue. The problem was feeling of job satisfaction had disappeared and hadn't been replaced by anything substantial enough. I can't sit around and do nothing. I don't watch much TV, I don't like gardening etc, etc. I'd retired "from" something, but not "to" something. 13 years later I'm looking to retire again, but this time I know exactly what I'll do with my time and can't wait.
Thanks for sharing, Dave. From what we have read this combination is very common. Very happy to learn that you have a good plan and we wish you all the best! Keep us posted on how you’re doing!
I think a lot of people just wanted to say that they were retired. And then after they did that, they had nothing else to do.
Great conversation guys! Thanks!
Glad you enjoyed it, Matthew!
Glad I stumbled upon this gem of a channel in the RUclipsverse!
Always good to see successes and failures! Thank you for sharing.
My father is an old-school early retiree - he retired when he was 54 from the Navy's civil service, back in the late 90's when they were trying to downsize the military, and offered early retirement to whoever wanted it. His comment is that he's more busy now than he was when he was working - but he planned on it being that way. He's an engineer and a project manager, so he had multiple long-term projects lined up: building a house (took 5 years or so), upgrading his church after decades of neglect (took 10 years), voulenteering for a variety of charities (ongoing), managing his diabetes (ongoing), travelling to Alaska/Australia/Hawaii (grandkids and vacations) multiple times a year, etc.
He's the kind of person that likes to have projects, but he's also a person who takes his doctor's advice seriously - so when his doctor said "don't sit down. If you sit down, your diabetes will kill you", he took that to heart. For someone in his mid-70's, he's in excellent shape and eats fantastically.
I'm 46 now, and looking potentially to retire at 55 - and I'm realizing that I REALLY need that sort of structure to look forward to, as well. My own hobbies are fine, but they really don't give you a "reason to get up in the morning" kind of impetus that his do.
Thanks for the comment, Kevin. There's so much merit in the story about your father. Some kind of structure - looser for some, more rigid for others, is definitely a helpful framework as well as source of motivation. Best wishes to you!
If you can't afford a yoga class you aren't FI.
Thank you, I really appreciate your honest and thoughtful discussions. Just subscribed!..to support your channel.
Thanks for your comment and your support! Best wishes to you, Robyn.
aren't you the architect guy? 30 x 40 or something
Eric is, yes!
I'm really enjoying your videos. Alot of fire channels seem to be people just trying to obtain fire and not necessarily looking at it in an objective way. So I really appreciate your opinions coming from both sides. I suppose your full time job becomes occupying every hour of the day. My grandfather worked quite often 7 days a week, for like 40 years but when he retired, he found other things to do. Simple things often, gardening, travel, dancing. He enjoyed 30 years of retirement with my grandmother and I hope to emulate that. Keep up the good content guys, its soo valuable
Thank you very much for your comment and your support. We really appreciate it!
Working with my therapist for years now on creating hobbies. But she said something that made it a little easier when she pointed out it doesn’t have to be a passion. But maybe just a past time.
Just found you. Love the podcast style!
Thanks, Jonah! Glad you enjoy it!
I am watching this while eating Dosas 😂
Jason here - excellent! One of the things I did post-FIRE was learn to make dosas. Pretty fun and very tasty!
@@TwoSidesOfFI Awesome. Hopefully you learnt how to make some chutney and sambar as well 😁
Solid vid!
Thanks, Scott!
My wife (36) and I (42) have obtained "Lean FI" and will move to the Philippines April 2022 (tickets purchased, land owned, budget to build house in place). I left the workforce July 2021, many things you discuss are real. Three (3) months into not working and I understand the lack of motivation exists but I ensure it does not affect my well-being. I find there is a large amount of time to work on skills I wanted to increase knowledge in. My wife is a travel ICU nurse, she takes assignments when monotony sets in.
I am happy that I went through the "RE" before my wife because I seem to handle change better than she does. My advice to anyone going through this process is to define what uplifts you and how you define self worth because it is "YOU" who must deal with the change in environment. You choose what you do!
Lastly, remember, what you want to do determines your number; your number is not supposed to define what you do.
Thanks so much for sharing, Cory. There’s a lot of great information here. Best wishes to you!
Common Thread. Ready-Shoot-Aim.
It would be interesting to know how many people live in the US. Here in the US, it seems like the majority of successful people define themselves by their job and not what they do outside of work. I know a few people who retired, even at normal retirement age, and found they were unfulfilled in their new life.
that's because some of them I've met always talk about other people and when they are now out of work, they no longer have stories of other people to exchange with when they interact with others.