Exactly what I was going to say - just give some options for windows that we can use, and this is fine. Also make these walls connect to doors (which I assume you will also add, but maybe I'm wrong)
I think that for the wall blocks you can add a hammer or something like that that can act as a state changer so you can really customize how the builds work. Also you can make regular blocks that use smart blocks toggleable so you can use walls or not based on how you wanna build.
I really like that idea. It could become a flag for a block using the state data. I could reserve 15 for doing that. Would mean we lose one color or color blocks can't do it but that seems like a good compromise.
I actually really like the structure at 5:57. That style of connection would be a pain for building houses, but offer lots of cool options for sculptures and terraforming. Probably not worth keeping in the base game, but I bet somebody will make a mod like this at some point.
I‘ve got two ideas: 1. you could solve the understanding of placement problem by using a transparent placement preview when holding a block. 2. I think it would look quite awesome if you were able to somehow randomly distribute this “straightness“ property across the world. This would give the terrain quite a bit more of diversity. I think you could use a flag to distinguish between naturally generated blocks and manually placed ones so that this random mesh doesn’t interfere with building a structure
Remember in the Mesh Block video, you set things up to automatically place thousands of barrels to test how it would affect frame-rate? Maybe a debug tool you should use is a mass block-replacing tool. You could swap all the dirt/grass blocks or leaves with one of your walls to instantly see how the smart block method looks on large-scale, and maybe find use cases for smart blocks that you didn’t think of. For instance, the leaves on the trees could make some really interesting shapes if they used your current smart block system.
yea! maybe make it so certain leaf types have certain connection behaviors to achieve different effects! willow trees could have vertical connections only except when connecting to wood, some leaves could have random edges or missed connections, some could act more solid, etc. it could also be used on logs to allow for branches & more accurately shaped yet stylized trees!
Personally I think your implementation of the wall blocks looks pretty clean and that it definitely has potential. Definitely better than the progress shown earlier in the video. For the windows quirk, you could potentially add a "window frame" block or something similar that acts as a predominantly empty wall/smart block to connect across the other blocks. Similar to a glass pane from MC but there's potential for it to be more like a window frame or anything of the sort. Just a few ideas maybe.
Setting occuluder flags to an enum / int is a pretty good solution, as opposed to a simple boolean. The only issue I see is that it could be difficult to generalize, if you wanted to add a new connecting type of block for example.
For the window issue, maybe the walls could terminate with flat sections unless its not in a line? If you are building with walls you already intend for it to be flat, so if you wanted it to terminate with a full block you would use another full block
Kinda sad we didn't get the half-hexagon / vertical "slabs" I suggested in the discord, as I think they'd fit a lot better as flat walls, but otherwise great video! Smart blocks will surely be very useful in the future.
I also thought that the best way to add flat walls would be to have a triangular vertical slab I never suggested it, but I'm still a bit upset it doesn't work like that
@@KuroNK Well that's not what he told me in the discord lol. He's given no indication that he's already tried that method, unless I missed something. Ken's exact words to me in supporter chat was: "Nothing is final yet. I might add that instead or as well. Who knows but definitely more experimenting will happen"
I suspect that this is the ultimate solution. I think there becomes a lot of trouble with just big flat plain walls in the current iteration. Somehow mesh blocks will likely need to be wall mounted. Think torches, paintings, shelving, and that's just standard minecraft starter interiors. Think of how decoration in minecraft has progressed, not just in block pallet, but as a skill. Plain walls are a sin.
Somehow the single part with you building in that pit made me decide i find this even cooler than i already thought i did. The sense of scale you could create in this game looks amazing
These smart blocks dont fit in my oppinion. i think it would be better to have a vertical half block that gets rotated based on the players direction when being placed. would be simpler and 100% better at letting the player know what will happen. also the flat walls look nice only when nothing is against them, as soon as you start placing things int he room like barrels or what ever then there would be the gap between the items and the smart wall...
I think it would be nice for the fences (or a special fence block) to also look at the neighbors two blocks away in the vertices of the hexagon. That way you can make a square fence if you want.
I think a way you could improve the wall blocks is instead of having each end of the wall be a full hexagon, it would only create a full hexagon block in more specific cases. I don't really know a whole lot about coding, not since i took computer science in high school and forgot everything 6 months later, so I don't know how plausible it is but I'll try to explain. So, you could have it where a wall block checks for the amount and position of other wall blocks around, sort of like yours already do. When a wall block has 2 or more other wall blocks around it, that means the wall block is at a vertex and should become a full block. There would need to be an exception to this, where if the other blocks are both on opposite sides of the middle block, it remains a flat wall because it's just in the middle of a wall and isn't a corner or vertex. Then, if a wall has only 1 wall block around it, it remains a flat wall. I believe this would get rid of the clunky looking windows. This would also mean that the end of a wall would still be a flat wall block, and I can see why you wouldn't want that but I do think it could be an alternative. I really do like the idea of wall blocks. I think they add another option for building for the people that want to use them. By no means would they need to use them, but the option is there and i just think that's really cool and I could see there being a lot of decoration applications that people could come up with.
@@uncanalaleatoriouwu mhm it's an easy thing to fix. I also think that being able to have the ends remain as flat blocks gives more options for decoration too.
i think the next great thing for visualization (and specially for these youtube videos) would be a crosshair or block highlight, because it's really difficult to see which blocks you're breaking and that would somewhat solve the issue with the smart walls being entirely unpredictable
I wasn't really bothered by not having straight walls but it's still a cool feature. I think that an easy fix for the window issue is just check for walls above and below. If there are any and they are straight, then become a straight wall. I think walls might also benefit from having a slightly different texture on corners, like maybe vertical planks instead of horizontal.
U can make a button to switch between mine, build and other to switch between battle and pacifist mode. The mine mode removes or add entires blocks. The build mode let u add or remove block parts to blocks. ie a block with 3 layers stacked. Battle mode let u make damage to blocks or mine them acc the tool or weapon u use. Also damage mobs or players. Pacifist mode u cant deal dmg. So u can build without harm anyone or anything. If u are a overpowered sorcerer and u casted a tiny spell and killed ur friend or pet. U will understand this
Also u can make incremental blocks. Where u can add or remove pieces. ie a block like a regular one. But with 3 levels. U can place different colors on it. And make your custom block. Also u would have a tiny menú where u can make a preset for ur block. So u can place multiple of those mixed blocks. While u still have the 3 types of pure blocks. They have to be pure bc is Just one color for each piece. They also can be crafted but w the difference they Will act like a entire block when mining. Otherwise use craft to mix regular blocks into mixed. But i like the idea of blocks with layers along w normal blocks.
8:14 You could likely make the original wall block easier to use by having a way to view it based on the connections, like for instance, if you hold the wall block in your character's hand then all wall blocks will start rendering as fences which will allow you to see what you're building.
I would make a automode where u can place blocks, and a manual Mode where u use a key to change the shape of the block to place. Or maybe u use automode always and that key when press activates manual Mode. On which u can use shapes as u wish. This doesnt affect current gameplay. But let u build anything
I honestly think, that the flat block doesn't really fit into the game. I like, how the game looks with all these hexagon edges. I think, that some way shoud be possible, but not that one.
I think the only change this really needs is a custom texture for the full blocks, they shouldn't look like horizontal planks but like have a vertical planks that break the pattern in a way that looks natural. Like using logs at corners where planks meet in Minecraft
I think for windows and partial walls it would make sense for walls to also look above/below them, either to *also* straighten out if blocks located there do, or flat walls could transition with a "point" into the non-flattened hexagonal shapes, causing a sorta capsule shape blending into, rather than a sudden hexagon resting on a straight wall. Ideally you could somehow support a smartness toggle, perhaps? Not sure whether that'd be too much, control-wise. It'd similarly be nice to selectively avoid fences linking up so you can allow for narrower openings
The window problem would be pretty easy to solve, just make it attach to other blocks like how the fences do, and then you can make some interesting things! For example, you could put logs in the corners instead of having just plain planks, or you could put a fence in a hole in the wall and have it connect seamlessly. At the end of the day, building is always going to be finicky when everything's hexagonal, but I think your implementation at least makes things a bit cleaner
you could make the "edges" of the walls flat, (aka any block that is only connected to 1 other block). that would be reasonable enough, and players can just use a normal block if they want a full block end. also at 8:03, that intersection could be better. gonna refer to the four visibly full blocks by their position onscreen with cardinal directions. you can see that E and W are connected in a straight line to N, but because S is on their edges, they becomes full. it would make sense for these to be straight though, and it could be implemented so that it only looks at connections on opposing faces. for example, since E is connected to N and on the face opposing N (N'), it should become a straight line from N to N'. even though it does connect to S, it doesnt connect to S' so it shouldnt care about whether that happens. combined with my previous solution, this would remove cases where the block is full (other than when there are 2 straight lines intersecting), as if it doesnt care about sides, a 3 way intersection with a straight line for example would disconnect due to being a flat wall and an end. i dont think this is a problem, though, as it seems very clear when and why this happens and a player would be able to figure out that they should use a full block if they want an intersection like that
You could also try out: * Allowing any pair of neighbors to trigger the wall behavior - allowing for corners on walls. Any block adjacent to 3 or more blocks should still give up and use a standard hex instead. * Allowing to form a wall also when there's exactly 1 neighbor. That would be more consistent with fence behavior and also allow for windows, but be a bit awkward at times
You can keep the dynamic block/wall, it'd be great for advanced builders if it's in the game. A debug stick will be a neat addition :) Or 2 placing mode for it, one for blobby shape, and another for regular wall shape.
You could also add a chisel tool to manually chip put the sides of a block to make a flat wall and have an auto option to automatically do what is the current solution in the video
I like the wall idea, it helps make the buildings look a lot smoother. The window quirk looks like shutters, maybe a window block could 'iron out' that problem.
I think something that would fix the window issue is just letting the block be a wall when there are exclusively two blocks adjacent and opposite, OR when there is just a single adjacent block. That would make the block behave a touch different, but I don't think that would cause any shape issues :)
I think the simple fix would be to have a tool in game which can toggle a block between the smart wall or standard block modes. So you'd build using normal wood planks and then, for lack of a better term, sand the blocks down flat. Could also leave open the possibility of curved blocks as a separate tool, but that's really wild.
I really like the whole cork of windows having that block coming out, but I can also see it being useful to like somehow flatten it if you want to just for aesthetic reasons
I personaly think that walls can have special cases coded in for corners. But for example no sharp corners like adjacent blocks 1 and 2 would produce the regular block but if there would be blocks on edges 1 and 3 it would make a corner. Also the special case for only one adjecent block could be looking like a continuation of straight wall.
Not gonna lie the first wall implementation was an absolute mess. No wonder it was rejected. The last one is fine, but I like more the idea of making straight wall by vertical half block. Saw it on discord. I think it would match the game better, bur honestly can't tell for sure because both saw it only on paper and never played the game. Thanks for amazing work, can't wait to try Planet Smith.
if you can support transulcents or dithering you could use a "Glass" wall block to fill it, but the artifact looks like shutters so I wouldn't call it a major problem if it is even a problem at all.
3:58 Hm, simply using the occlusion data for the fence may not be a long-term solution, if you later add transparent smart blocks then you won't want them occluding each other, but if they don't then nothing will attach to them.
Honestly, the window quirk just looks like a design feature. I second the idea of having a window block that interacts the same way - and we can choose whether we want that design quirk or not by using different blocks.
i reckon walls could work a lot like fences just thicker so the corners still have some difference to full blocks but you dont have to navigate weird corner geometry
I think the wall feature it's enough that can be kept and modified once the community has been able to make some builds. That probably will give you a lot of feedback and know precisely what to improve, right now it's a great addition to the game and gives the players a super cool feature to explore. My only concern is that maybe some players want to build something without this feature, so some kind of tool for disabling it before construction can be useful :D Great videos, keep it up!
I'd have it act very similarly to fences. Give it a hexagonal core and straight bits come off it. If a wall is surrounded by walls, instead of having it be a solid block, have it spoke-like, like the fence is.
One idea is that depending on how the walls are connected, it could instead render as a trapezoidal prism when the walls are 2 sides apart and a rhomboidal prism if they are next to one another. If they are on opposite sides it would just look like a straight wall.
i really like the new "smart wall", and easy fix would be letting it connect to fences and glass panes the same way the walls connect to solid blocks (assuming the glass pane would work just like the fence block)
8:33 Should be as simple as making any block that has only one block adjacent to it act as the old ones did, this would ensure that it doesn't cap straight lines unnecessarily.
I feel like an implementation of the fence that acts as a wall would do well. If you make the core a hexagon that is offset by 30 degrees, with a small diagonal length the same as the side of a full block, then make the “plank” segments also the same thickness, you could just reuse the same logic as the fence. It would allow corners without the blobs on the end and if you place a block on the interior of the wall, and it wouldn’t cause the exterior of the wall to deform (though without a custom implementation, it would still connect to that interior block).
i think flat wall blocks definitely will make building in the game a lot more enjoyable, forcing buildings to have jagged walls adds a lot of noise to a structure and takes away from its clarity. i think the way youve implemented them works pretty well, maybe to combat the window problem there could be an exception to the rule that wall blocks not connected on two sides become full blocks, being that if you break one of the wall blocks the two adjacent dont update their block state.
I think definitely keep these wall blocks in the way you adjusted, it works well and keeps things simple to understand, but I would say they're most akin to Minecraft's wall blocks. I was having the idea and i see a lot of others are too of a triangle shape block that can be placed between two hexagons to make the wall flat. I think both being implemented would give a lot of creative freedom for building in a hexagonal format!
maybe if it is only connected to one block, it makes a half wall, like wall to the middle and then doesn't stick past, or just whatever wall has one of its endpoints as that
I agree with a lot of the comments. The wall blocks look nice by themselves, but I think that you should try to do something wall mounted like a torch, and something sitting at the base of the wall like a barrel, to help you improve them. If you go with the half hexagon idea you can get different colors for the inside and outside of a house for free, though it still doesnt fix the mounting problem by itself.
At first, I was a bit sceptical abou the idea, but now that i shaw youre solution, i can get myself into liking it. Its a bit tough around the edges but look cool, and if its possible to make it so that windows are not boring square shaped but hexagonal, that would be awesome!
To solve the window problem you could do what Minecraft does with its wall blocks by checking if the block above is a full block or a wall block, and if the block above is a full block then the current block should also be a full block, but if it is a wall block then it should also be a wall block
Awesome work! I really think these make sense, I would look at the way Minecraft implements their wall structures, it does some calculations based on whether the block above it is in the wall state, and then it goes into wall state, so that would fix the window!
I kinda like the walls hiw they are. If you make them able to connect to other fence, pane, wall -type blocks, that will give options for anyone who doesn't like them as much.
Idea: let the player choose what shape a particular block is from a list of possible blocks (perhaps using some tool). That would open up whole new dimensions of player creativity.
Perhaps some way to manually flatten surfaces or otherwise alter blocks, like I've seen in some minecraft mods. Say a tool like a hammer that, when right clicking a block, will flatten the targeted vertex. This can also be used to unflatten a surface, returning the vertex if the player wishes.
Have you tried making walls similar to the fences? Instead of having full blocks at the ends, you could have smaller posts, similar to the fences. That way, the windows wouldn't look as jarring. It would also eliminate any possible confusion between regular blocks and wall blocks.
Just like how fences connect to each other and blocks you just need glass, door or another block for it to connect to. That's how smart blocks could work.
Those walls are nice! The only thing I could think of is perhaps impractical as it would add too much to memory issues potentially. Having two forms of certains blocks and utilizing a craftable tool to swap between them (maybe as a nod to the best minecraft mod make it a massive wrench).
What if you add a hammer tool or something similar where you can use it on edges to turn them into walls. For example, you create a straight line of the wall blocks, and the end points are full blocks. You click them with the hammer, and they turn into wall blocks, for one smooth and flat wall. This would solve the window problem without having to do stuff with glass and give the player even more freedom.
I think the square blocks should be their own blocks and allow players to orientate them in any of the 3 ways. Transparent preview would come handy with it
The walls just need to match the state of the walls beneath them. If a wall is set on top of or underneath of a straight smart wall block, it should also be straight. This would completely fix windows, as well as cases where you might want to create walls with variable height.
Maybe the flat walls follow the continuity of adjacent flat walls, unless it is adjacent to more than one block (on the horizontal axis), in which case it becomes a full block. It would require testing, but I think this would create full blocks in the corners of a building while still allowing the player to add windows in flat walls. The blocks that now turn into full blocks next to windows would see a flat wall above, below or next to it, and copy that look. This would also mean that when buidling a flat wall that isn't connected to anything, the wall wouldn't be capped off by full blocks. I'm uncertain if that's a good thing or not without me being able to test it.
could add a hammer that toggles the block's mesh between a full block and a wall facing the player, that's the simplest way to solve the issue i think you could reuse it for making it so fences don't connect on a certain side and other block model configuration things
Maybe placing the blocks as normal and using a chisel tool on the side of the blocks to convert them into a smart or normal block? Also you could have a toggle to enable a semi transparent ghost of what mining or placing a block will do at any moment? Could also do it similar to minecart and have simple black outline, But that too would have to change based on that you are looking at I guess. As much as i think it being simple is good, people always want more control over things when building, But also it has to not be too daunting for new players so I think having a chisel or some kind or way to get that extra functionality out of the blocks after the fact may be a good way to have best of both worlds I hope that this gave you some kinda ideas as to what may work best for your game and i look forward to seeing where you go with it :3
i think this kind of smart block works for fences, but i still think vertical half blocks would be a better solution for full walls. maybe you could keep a sort of compromise type of block, like minecraft's cobblestone walls, which behave like fences but can be made to look more like solid walls?
I vastly prefer the smart blocks over having to manually add the pieces to make it flat. Those sub pieces are one of the more tedious parts of building in Space Engineers
The idea is great! To solve the problem without a too much additional code, you could add a debug stick like in minecraft to manually set block state, or in the case one would want a straight open window, some sort of invisible, non colliding block to bypass the problem Question though, when you dig to a deep enough layer, how do you manage the difference in surface area between layers ?
I think that the wall block shouldn't create full blocks at all, and be a fat fence post instead. That way it doesn't overflow into weird shapes, but it can still fill itself. It is too big as a full block, and it would also remove the problem with the window frame.
you should make it so when you do a 2 thicc diagonal that it becomes the width of one full hex overall! it would allow for interior walls being different from exterior walls just like that. maybe also make it so it has a ‘post’ like the fence, since they behave similarly anyway & you can easily learn from/build upon some other of minecraft’s wall mechanics :)
I think the solution to the wall block window issue would be to test if there is a block above. If there is, use the wall shape I think for me personally my solution would have been vertical half blocks as flat surfaces instead of smart blocks
I like the smart block window, in-game I would just build the window with 3 normal blocks beneath, making the whole window look "framed". I'll be interested to see how you handle it.
Game changer! I totally see how the first iteration of the smart walls would be confusing and frustrating, but I feel like there's a middle ground. Like, fence-like intersections instead of the full hex block intersections, and you can say that if a smart wall is adjacent to only 1 side it can still act like a wall, eliminating the window issue? Correct me if I'm wrong though x
Wall block looks good altho it need to stay separate block so people that will choose to build from plank will be able to have that weird shape. its a good variant of blocks, like blocks and full fences walls in minecraft
I think having both these and the vertical slabs that you place manually would be best; minecraft has those walls you're adding too, and people have been begging for vertical slabs anyways for years
Love the wall block, could it be done by adding a 1/6 block? That just fills the gap between two blocks, albeit taking up an entire block space, it might work looks wise!
You could probably solve that window problem by adding glass that behaves in the same way, and making them connect.
maybe fences and other smart blocks could connect too, to give players more window choices
Exactly what I was going to say - just give some options for windows that we can use, and this is fine. Also make these walls connect to doors (which I assume you will also add, but maybe I'm wrong)
Or copy the state of the wall above
@@SirReal314 that would not work if the wall above the border ones is at another angle, changes direction or there just isn't one
@@vfox32 ah true
I think that for the wall blocks you can add a hammer or something like that that can act as a state changer so you can really customize how the builds work. Also you can make regular blocks that use smart blocks toggleable so you can use walls or not based on how you wanna build.
I really like that idea. It could become a flag for a block using the state data. I could reserve 15 for doing that. Would mean we lose one color or color blocks can't do it but that seems like a good compromise.
The hammer thing reminds me of Terraria, it’s a good idea
I was just thinking of something along these lines!
I was just thinking of something along these lines!
I was just thinking of something along these lines!
It's so amazing to see a developer focused on an honest and open conversation about how to improve their creation, you're awesome
I actually really like the structure at 5:57. That style of connection would be a pain for building houses, but offer lots of cool options for sculptures and terraforming. Probably not worth keeping in the base game, but I bet somebody will make a mod like this at some point.
Please continue working on those walls, the building opertunities with em are bountiful.
So excited for this!
I‘ve got two ideas:
1. you could solve the understanding of placement problem by using a transparent placement preview when holding a block.
2. I think it would look quite awesome if you were able to somehow randomly distribute this “straightness“ property across the world. This would give the terrain quite a bit more of diversity. I think you could use a flag to distinguish between naturally generated blocks and manually placed ones so that this random mesh doesn’t interfere with building a structure
Remember in the Mesh Block video, you set things up to automatically place thousands of barrels to test how it would affect frame-rate?
Maybe a debug tool you should use is a mass block-replacing tool. You could swap all the dirt/grass blocks or leaves with one of your walls to instantly see how the smart block method looks on large-scale, and maybe find use cases for smart blocks that you didn’t think of. For instance, the leaves on the trees could make some really interesting shapes if they used your current smart block system.
yea! maybe make it so certain leaf types have certain connection behaviors to achieve different effects! willow trees could have vertical connections only except when connecting to wood, some leaves could have random edges or missed connections, some could act more solid, etc.
it could also be used on logs to allow for branches & more accurately shaped yet stylized trees!
Building tools would be a fantastic addition for creative building too, not just a dev tool!
Personally I think your implementation of the wall blocks looks pretty clean and that it definitely has potential. Definitely better than the progress shown earlier in the video.
For the windows quirk, you could potentially add a "window frame" block or something similar that acts as a predominantly empty wall/smart block to connect across the other blocks. Similar to a glass pane from MC but there's potential for it to be more like a window frame or anything of the sort. Just a few ideas maybe.
Yes make a frame block and then you can add glass and curtains into it!
Setting occuluder flags to an enum / int is a pretty good solution, as opposed to a simple boolean. The only issue I see is that it could be difficult to generalize, if you wanted to add a new connecting type of block for example.
Yes I'm slightly limited with a byte, might up it in future to a short if needed
yoo youre here too!
For the window issue, maybe the walls could terminate with flat sections unless its not in a line? If you are building with walls you already intend for it to be flat, so if you wanted it to terminate with a full block you would use another full block
Kinda sad we didn't get the half-hexagon / vertical "slabs" I suggested in the discord, as I think they'd fit a lot better as flat walls, but otherwise great video! Smart blocks will surely be very useful in the future.
YESSSSS
i think some comments in previous videos said that he did that, but him and the playtesters didn't like how it looked/felt so it got removed.
I also thought that the best way to add flat walls would be to have a triangular vertical slab
I never suggested it, but I'm still a bit upset it doesn't work like that
@@KuroNK Well that's not what he told me in the discord lol. He's given no indication that he's already tried that method, unless I missed something. Ken's exact words to me in supporter chat was:
"Nothing is final yet. I might add that instead or as well. Who knows but definitely more experimenting will happen"
I suspect that this is the ultimate solution. I think there becomes a lot of trouble with just big flat plain walls in the current iteration. Somehow mesh blocks will likely need to be wall mounted. Think torches, paintings, shelving, and that's just standard minecraft starter interiors. Think of how decoration in minecraft has progressed, not just in block pallet, but as a skill. Plain walls are a sin.
Somehow the single part with you building in that pit made me decide i find this even cooler than i already thought i did. The sense of scale you could create in this game looks amazing
🦁
These smart blocks dont fit in my oppinion. i think it would be better to have a vertical half block that gets rotated based on the players direction when being placed. would be simpler and 100% better at letting the player know what will happen. also the flat walls look nice only when nothing is against them, as soon as you start placing things int he room like barrels or what ever then there would be the gap between the items and the smart wall...
I think it would be nice for the fences (or a special fence block) to also look at the neighbors two blocks away in the vertices of the hexagon. That way you can make a square fence if you want.
Ooo that idea has a lot of possibilities!
I think a way you could improve the wall blocks is instead of having each end of the wall be a full hexagon, it would only create a full hexagon block in more specific cases. I don't really know a whole lot about coding, not since i took computer science in high school and forgot everything 6 months later, so I don't know how plausible it is but I'll try to explain.
So, you could have it where a wall block checks for the amount and position of other wall blocks around, sort of like yours already do. When a wall block has 2 or more other wall blocks around it, that means the wall block is at a vertex and should become a full block. There would need to be an exception to this, where if the other blocks are both on opposite sides of the middle block, it remains a flat wall because it's just in the middle of a wall and isn't a corner or vertex. Then, if a wall has only 1 wall block around it, it remains a flat wall. I believe this would get rid of the clunky looking windows. This would also mean that the end of a wall would still be a flat wall block, and I can see why you wouldn't want that but I do think it could be an alternative.
I really do like the idea of wall blocks. I think they add another option for building for the people that want to use them. By no means would they need to use them, but the option is there and i just think that's really cool and I could see there being a lot of decoration applications that people could come up with.
And you could put a normal block manually at the end of the wall. It'd fix the issue
@@uncanalaleatoriouwu mhm it's an easy thing to fix. I also think that being able to have the ends remain as flat blocks gives more options for decoration too.
i think the next great thing for visualization (and specially for these youtube videos) would be a crosshair or block highlight, because it's really difficult to see which blocks you're breaking
and that would somewhat solve the issue with the smart walls being entirely unpredictable
5:48 other than the peanut shaped gap, these blocks actually seem quite neat, as it looks easy to shape them out when you place them in a grid
I wasn't really bothered by not having straight walls but it's still a cool feature. I think that an easy fix for the window issue is just check for walls above and below. If there are any and they are straight, then become a straight wall. I think walls might also benefit from having a slightly different texture on corners, like maybe vertical planks instead of horizontal.
Man, I loooved the straight blocks! It was the only thing I was concerned about the hexagons blocks, but now it's perfect! Great job as usual! :)
The smart wall blocks should definitely stay. Maybe Let them be also a wall when the one bellow it is a wall too.
Really cool project
U can make a button to switch between mine, build and other to switch between battle and pacifist mode. The mine mode removes or add entires blocks. The build mode let u add or remove block parts to blocks. ie a block with 3 layers stacked. Battle mode let u make damage to blocks or mine them acc the tool or weapon u use. Also damage mobs or players. Pacifist mode u cant deal dmg. So u can build without harm anyone or anything. If u are a overpowered sorcerer and u casted a tiny spell and killed ur friend or pet. U will understand this
Also u can make incremental blocks. Where u can add or remove pieces. ie a block like a regular one. But with 3 levels. U can place different colors on it. And make your custom block. Also u would have a tiny menú where u can make a preset for ur block. So u can place multiple of those mixed blocks. While u still have the 3 types of pure blocks. They have to be pure bc is Just one color for each piece. They also can be crafted but w the difference they Will act like a entire block when mining. Otherwise use craft to mix regular blocks into mixed. But i like the idea of blocks with layers along w normal blocks.
8:14 You could likely make the original wall block easier to use by having a way to view it based on the connections, like for instance, if you hold the wall block in your character's hand then all wall blocks will start rendering as fences which will allow you to see what you're building.
I would make a automode where u can place blocks, and a manual Mode where u use a key to change the shape of the block to place. Or maybe u use automode always and that key when press activates manual Mode. On which u can use shapes as u wish. This doesnt affect current gameplay. But let u build anything
I honestly think, that the flat block doesn't really fit into the game. I like, how the game looks with all these hexagon edges. I think, that some way shoud be possible, but not that one.
I think the only change this really needs is a custom texture for the full blocks, they shouldn't look like horizontal planks but like have a vertical planks that break the pattern in a way that looks natural. Like using logs at corners where planks meet in Minecraft
The new flat block window problem is fixed by simply placing the actual window block (glass)
I think for windows and partial walls it would make sense for walls to also look above/below them, either to *also* straighten out if blocks located there do, or flat walls could transition with a "point" into the non-flattened hexagonal shapes, causing a sorta capsule shape blending into, rather than a sudden hexagon resting on a straight wall.
Ideally you could somehow support a smartness toggle, perhaps? Not sure whether that'd be too much, control-wise.
It'd similarly be nice to selectively avoid fences linking up so you can allow for narrower openings
The window problem would be pretty easy to solve, just make it attach to other blocks like how the fences do, and then you can make some interesting things! For example, you could put logs in the corners instead of having just plain planks, or you could put a fence in a hole in the wall and have it connect seamlessly.
At the end of the day, building is always going to be finicky when everything's hexagonal, but I think your implementation at least makes things a bit cleaner
I love the protruding windows, plus the comment that said adding glass block can fix it is awesome aswell
you could make the "edges" of the walls flat, (aka any block that is only connected to 1 other block). that would be reasonable enough, and players can just use a normal block if they want a full block end.
also at 8:03, that intersection could be better. gonna refer to the four visibly full blocks by their position onscreen with cardinal directions. you can see that E and W are connected in a straight line to N, but because S is on their edges, they becomes full. it would make sense for these to be straight though, and it could be implemented so that it only looks at connections on opposing faces. for example, since E is connected to N and on the face opposing N (N'), it should become a straight line from N to N'. even though it does connect to S, it doesnt connect to S' so it shouldnt care about whether that happens. combined with my previous solution, this would remove cases where the block is full (other than when there are 2 straight lines intersecting), as if it doesnt care about sides, a 3 way intersection with a straight line for example would disconnect due to being a flat wall and an end. i dont think this is a problem, though, as it seems very clear when and why this happens and a player would be able to figure out that they should use a full block if they want an intersection like that
You could also try out:
* Allowing any pair of neighbors to trigger the wall behavior - allowing for corners on walls. Any block adjacent to 3 or more blocks should still give up and use a standard hex instead.
* Allowing to form a wall also when there's exactly 1 neighbor. That would be more consistent with fence behavior and also allow for windows, but be a bit awkward at times
You can keep the dynamic block/wall, it'd be great for advanced builders if it's in the game.
A debug stick will be a neat addition :)
Or 2 placing mode for it, one for blobby shape, and another for regular wall shape.
You could also add a chisel tool to manually chip put the sides of a block to make a flat wall and have an auto option to automatically do what is the current solution in the video
I like the wall idea, it helps make the buildings look a lot smoother. The window quirk looks like shutters, maybe a window block could 'iron out' that problem.
I think something that would fix the window issue is just letting the block be a wall when there are exclusively two blocks adjacent and opposite, OR when there is just a single adjacent block. That would make the block behave a touch different, but I don't think that would cause any shape issues :)
I think the simple fix would be to have a tool in game which can toggle a block between the smart wall or standard block modes. So you'd build using normal wood planks and then, for lack of a better term, sand the blocks down flat.
Could also leave open the possibility of curved blocks as a separate tool, but that's really wild.
I like the smart blocks. Aesthetics are a major part of the crafting portion of a game I choose to play.
I really like the whole cork of windows having that block coming out, but I can also see it being useful to like somehow flatten it if you want to just for aesthetic reasons
I personaly think that walls can have special cases coded in for corners. But for example no sharp corners like adjacent blocks 1 and 2 would produce the regular block but if there would be blocks on edges 1 and 3 it would make a corner. Also the special case for only one adjecent block could be looking like a continuation of straight wall.
Not gonna lie the first wall implementation was an absolute mess. No wonder it was rejected. The last one is fine, but I like more the idea of making straight wall by vertical half block. Saw it on discord. I think it would match the game better, bur honestly can't tell for sure because both saw it only on paper and never played the game.
Thanks for amazing work, can't wait to try Planet Smith.
if you can support transulcents or dithering you could use a "Glass" wall block to fill it, but the artifact looks like shutters so I wouldn't call it a major problem if it is even a problem at all.
3:58 Hm, simply using the occlusion data for the fence may not be a long-term solution, if you later add transparent smart blocks then you won't want them occluding each other, but if they don't then nothing will attach to them.
Honestly, the window quirk just looks like a design feature.
I second the idea of having a window block that interacts the same way - and we can choose whether we want that design quirk or not by using different blocks.
I say that walls look at the blocks on top and bottom too. That way I think it would be more consistent in making holes in the walls.
i reckon walls could work a lot like fences just thicker
so the corners still have some difference to full blocks but you dont have to navigate weird corner geometry
I think the wall feature it's enough that can be kept and modified once the community has been able to make some builds.
That probably will give you a lot of feedback and know precisely what to improve, right now it's a great addition to the game and gives the players a super cool feature to explore.
My only concern is that maybe some players want to build something without this feature, so some kind of tool for disabling it before construction can be useful :D
Great videos, keep it up!
I'd have it act very similarly to fences. Give it a hexagonal core and straight bits come off it. If a wall is surrounded by walls, instead of having it be a solid block, have it spoke-like, like the fence is.
One idea is that depending on how the walls are connected, it could instead render as a trapezoidal prism when the walls are 2 sides apart and a rhomboidal prism if they are next to one another. If they are on opposite sides it would just look like a straight wall.
i really like the new "smart wall", and easy fix would be letting it connect to fences and glass panes the same way the walls connect to solid blocks (assuming the glass pane would work just like the fence block)
8:33 Should be as simple as making any block that has only one block adjacent to it act as the old ones did, this would ensure that it doesn't cap straight lines unnecessarily.
I feel like an implementation of the fence that acts as a wall would do well. If you make the core a hexagon that is offset by 30 degrees, with a small diagonal length the same as the side of a full block, then make the “plank” segments also the same thickness, you could just reuse the same logic as the fence. It would allow corners without the blobs on the end and if you place a block on the interior of the wall, and it wouldn’t cause the exterior of the wall to deform (though without a custom implementation, it would still connect to that interior block).
i think flat wall blocks definitely will make building in the game a lot more enjoyable, forcing buildings to have jagged walls adds a lot of noise to a structure and takes away from its clarity. i think the way youve implemented them works pretty well, maybe to combat the window problem there could be an exception to the rule that wall blocks not connected on two sides become full blocks, being that if you break one of the wall blocks the two adjacent dont update their block state.
I think definitely keep these wall blocks in the way you adjusted, it works well and keeps things simple to understand, but I would say they're most akin to Minecraft's wall blocks. I was having the idea and i see a lot of others are too of a triangle shape block that can be placed between two hexagons to make the wall flat. I think both being implemented would give a lot of creative freedom for building in a hexagonal format!
maybe if it is only connected to one block, it makes a half wall, like wall to the middle and then doesn't stick past, or just whatever wall has one of its endpoints as that
I agree with a lot of the comments. The wall blocks look nice by themselves, but I think that you should try to do something wall mounted like a torch, and something sitting at the base of the wall like a barrel, to help you improve them.
If you go with the half hexagon idea you can get different colors for the inside and outside of a house for free, though it still doesnt fix the mounting problem by itself.
At first, I was a bit sceptical abou the idea, but now that i shaw youre solution, i can get myself into liking it. Its a bit tough around the edges but look cool, and if its possible to make it so that windows are not boring square shaped but hexagonal, that would be awesome!
To solve the window problem you could do what Minecraft does with its wall blocks by checking if the block above is a full block or a wall block, and if the block above is a full block then the current block should also be a full block, but if it is a wall block then it should also be a wall block
Awesome work! I really think these make sense, I would look at the way Minecraft implements their wall structures, it does some calculations based on whether the block above it is in the wall state, and then it goes into wall state, so that would fix the window!
I kinda like the walls hiw they are. If you make them able to connect to other fence, pane, wall -type blocks, that will give options for anyone who doesn't like them as much.
Idea: let the player choose what shape a particular block is from a list of possible blocks (perhaps using some tool). That would open up whole new dimensions of player creativity.
Perhaps some way to manually flatten surfaces or otherwise alter blocks, like I've seen in some minecraft mods. Say a tool like a hammer that, when right clicking a block, will flatten the targeted vertex. This can also be used to unflatten a surface, returning the vertex if the player wishes.
Have you tried making walls similar to the fences? Instead of having full blocks at the ends, you could have smaller posts, similar to the fences. That way, the windows wouldn't look as jarring. It would also eliminate any possible confusion between regular blocks and wall blocks.
Just like how fences connect to each other and blocks you just need glass, door or another block for it to connect to.
That's how smart blocks could work.
6:28 very good idea i think
Those walls are nice!
The only thing I could think of is perhaps impractical as it would add too much to memory issues potentially.
Having two forms of certains blocks and utilizing a craftable tool to swap between them (maybe as a nod to the best minecraft mod make it a massive wrench).
What if you add a hammer tool or something similar where you can use it on edges to turn them into walls. For example, you create a straight line of the wall blocks, and the end points are full blocks. You click them with the hammer, and they turn into wall blocks, for one smooth and flat wall. This would solve the window problem without having to do stuff with glass and give the player even more freedom.
I think another idea that might keep with the games geometry would be to cut a regular block in half from the top, kinda like a vertical slab.
I think the square blocks should be their own blocks and allow players to orientate them in any of the 3 ways. Transparent preview would come handy with it
The walls just need to match the state of the walls beneath them. If a wall is set on top of or underneath of a straight smart wall block, it should also be straight. This would completely fix windows, as well as cases where you might want to create walls with variable height.
I think the flat walls are a great addition!
Maybe the flat walls follow the continuity of adjacent flat walls, unless it is adjacent to more than one block (on the horizontal axis), in which case it becomes a full block. It would require testing, but I think this would create full blocks in the corners of a building while still allowing the player to add windows in flat walls. The blocks that now turn into full blocks next to windows would see a flat wall above, below or next to it, and copy that look.
This would also mean that when buidling a flat wall that isn't connected to anything, the wall wouldn't be capped off by full blocks. I'm uncertain if that's a good thing or not without me being able to test it.
Always a good day when you upload
the wall bloks is perfet, and you can solve the issue by making a glass pane that will connect to walls too
great stuff, you should add block selection highlighting as it would make it way clearer what you are selecting.
you could have a feature like in Terraria where there is a "hammer" tool that allows you to cycle through the available shapes a block can form
could add a hammer that toggles the block's mesh between a full block and a wall facing the player, that's the simplest way to solve the issue i think
you could reuse it for making it so fences don't connect on a certain side and other block model configuration things
Maybe placing the blocks as normal and using a chisel tool on the side of the blocks to convert them into a smart or normal block?
Also you could have a toggle to enable a semi transparent ghost of what mining or placing a block will do at any moment?
Could also do it similar to minecart and have simple black outline, But that too would have to change based on that you are looking at I guess.
As much as i think it being simple is good, people always want more control over things when building, But also it has to not be too daunting for new players so I think having a chisel or some kind or way to get that extra functionality out of the blocks after the fact may be a good way to have best of both worlds
I hope that this gave you some kinda ideas as to what may work best for your game and i look forward to seeing where you go with it :3
i think this kind of smart block works for fences, but i still think vertical half blocks would be a better solution for full walls. maybe you could keep a sort of compromise type of block, like minecraft's cobblestone walls, which behave like fences but can be made to look more like solid walls?
I vastly prefer the smart blocks over having to manually add the pieces to make it flat. Those sub pieces are one of the more tedious parts of building in Space Engineers
The idea is great! To solve the problem without a too much additional code, you could add a debug stick like in minecraft to manually set block state, or in the case one would want a straight open window, some sort of invisible, non colliding block to bypass the problem
Question though, when you dig to a deep enough layer, how do you manage the difference in surface area between layers ?
You need more options to connect the block, if you build a floor over multiple stories
the final wall blocks look awesome :)
those "wall" blocks are great!!
I think all blocks should do this to save triangles. Like another guy said adding glass would fix the issue of full blocks in windows
I think that the wall block shouldn't create full blocks at all, and be a fat fence post instead. That way it doesn't overflow into weird shapes, but it can still fill itself. It is too big as a full block, and it would also remove the problem with the window frame.
Can't wait for this game!
It now needs some vertical checking too, not just horizontal
you should make it so when you do a 2 thicc diagonal that it becomes the width of one full hex overall! it would allow for interior walls being different from exterior walls just like that. maybe also make it so it has a ‘post’ like the fence, since they behave similarly anyway & you can easily learn from/build upon some other of minecraft’s wall mechanics :)
Probably you can add a certain tool that makes the wall blocks only detect one neighbor block, to fix the window issue.
I think the solution to the wall block window issue would be to test if there is a block above. If there is, use the wall shape
I think for me personally my solution would have been vertical half blocks as flat surfaces instead of smart blocks
I really like the smart blocks. The windows do look a little off with two full blocks on either side though.
I like the smart block window, in-game I would just build the window with 3 normal blocks beneath, making the whole window look "framed". I'll be interested to see how you handle it.
Game changer! I totally see how the first iteration of the smart walls would be confusing and frustrating, but I feel like there's a middle ground. Like, fence-like intersections instead of the full hex block intersections, and you can say that if a smart wall is adjacent to only 1 side it can still act like a wall, eliminating the window issue? Correct me if I'm wrong though x
Wall block looks good altho it need to stay separate block so people that will choose to build from plank will be able to have that weird shape. its a good variant of blocks, like blocks and full fences walls in minecraft
I think having both these and the vertical slabs that you place manually would be best; minecraft has those walls you're adding too, and people have been begging for vertical slabs anyways for years
5:54 Nah, I don't see the problem. It looks fine, and in fact desirable.
i think you could address the window/door hole issue by making a window/door frame block instead of leaving the hole empty
Love the wall block, could it be done by adding a 1/6 block? That just fills the gap between two blocks, albeit taking up an entire block space, it might work looks wise!