You know you are gonna keep working the "Papaw" gun until it lands where you want it. Everyone who pulls Papaw's old rifle out of the safe and starts shooting it goes on the quest of the fabled loading that has them shooting as well as they remember him shooting. I have a friend who went down this rabbit hole with an old 220 swift that he inherited. It's the quest we all go on... To reach the same level as we remember him at. Along the way, through the nostalgia and the frustration, we see that Papaw is still schooling us long after he is gone, and it's AWESOME. It's the last right of passage. I hope we see more of this Papaw project play out in your own way. 🙂
Great video. I've always had great s.d. with Winchester primers. Anytime i cant get good s.d. i switch to vihtavuori powders and voila. Single digit s.d
I have used 85 grain SGK’s in 243win for 8 years now culling deer and when I first used them you could get H4831sc in the UK. I remember the Lee manual saying 48grains of h4831 with a compressed charge and it shot very precisely and the book quoted 3200fps. I now use Vihtavouri N550 and have chronographed them at 3250fps. 42.3 grains of N550 with a cci 200 primer with a Norma case. 👍🏻
@@jamespugh big time, the 105gr stuff with an 8twist is very good and flat shooting especially out of a 26” barrel. We are changing over to copper bullets soon and a friend of mine owns Yew Tree Fieldsports and has designed an 80grain copper which is lethal. He is also selling various ELR hunting bullets.
What grain Game Kings are you using and what on game experience do you have? I ask because I have used 95 grain Nosler Ballistics Tips in the past, but bullet prices are making me look at alternatives.
Hey man you have helped me a ton thank you!!! I wanted to give my load for my 22 inch 700 Adl in .243. Barns 80grn ttsx. Hybrid 100 at 43.5 grns. 1/2 inch groups for hunting. 3289fps. I love this gun. Take care!!!
I used to take the old Savage 110's in .243 with the " Buggy Whip " barrel, glass bed them and free float them. Sierra had a 60 grain hollow point that I loaded I think to 33-3,400 fps . this combination was deadly accurate shooters with Remington 700's would pack up and leave when I drove up the the rifle range. That 60 grain bullet turned many a ground hog inside out. And every deer I shot with it with 90 gr. bullets dropped with one shot. My three sons have those rifles now and I am still loading ammunition for them . I hope they pass them down. The right load makes almost any rifle a tack driver.
It may sound weird but usually I shoot at a lower power on the scopes than the max. A 9 or 12 power Ill still be between 5 and 7. It seems to not magnify any movement of the reticle and I usually get better groups than anyone else who shoots the same gun. Varget powder works extremely well in most any rifle calibers i use
Over the past several years loading for my Remington 700 and my son's Savage I've had excellent results using H414 and IMR4350. Since H414 has been discontinued, I've been using W760, which is basically the same powder. I use to use CCI primers in the past (off & on), but over the last 10 years I've whittled it down to Fed 210M and Winchester specifically. In most loads Federals do very well, but often (when they won't) I'll swap them out for Winchesters and they will improve group size.....where one doesn't, usually the other one does kinda thing. Six of one, half a dozen for the other. As the old general rule goes, I've had the best luck accuracy wise using a powder that fills the case to the base of the seated bullet. Compressed loads rarely perform better than that. I've tried faster powders and in some cases they do fairly well but not as good as the slower 90-100% fill powders. As said, varying primers, fast & slow, stick & ball powders, etc., you eventually find a mix that works.
Loving the 243 videos. One thing I have read numerous times is that 243 seems to like a shorter COL than published in many rifles. Might be worth playing with. Don’t give up on grandpa’s favourite rifle!
Those loads with 4451 aren't any worse than really good factory ammo. The SD's may not be where you want them, but as far as groups, I'd mess with COAL and see what it would do. I wouldn't write it off, is all I'm saying... Good to have multiple options for loads in this day in age.
In both of my 26in. Heavy barrels which I use mainly for coyotes an groundhogs 65gr. 75 gr an 87gr imr 3031 an imr 4064 varget powder 243 is one of my ALL time favorites
More please sir !!! The .243 is Very popular for deer and it’s a great groundhog or coyote round as well. It would be a really good series. If/when you make the next .243 video I would like to see more H4831 loads. With a full case and higher velocity I bet those SDs and groups could be cut in half. I load my sons .243 with 100g Nosler partition over a max charge of Hybrid 100V. Very nice load for VA deer/bear. I love your videos brother. Very informative and entertaining.
your having the same problems that i have when using seirra bullets in a remimington 1-9 1/8 twist 22in brl, no matter what powder you use the groups suck. when i switched to hornady bullets the groups tightened up a lot. you might give their 87gn bthp a try, hornady used to list these as medium game bullets up until their 10th edition came out. I use IMR4350 for good case fill and watch SD numbers drop with some really good groups and a smile on my face.
I spent a lot of frustrating hours trying to get my 243 to shoot. When I discovered the 87 grain vmax my gun started drilling! Sub half moa on many groups. But probably averaging around .40 moa on 3 shot groups at 100. Definitely give them a try.
Hold on!! Hornady V-MAX aren’t hunting bullets. They’re varmint bullets. They’re meant to explode on contact, not drill into your deer or bear. No, Nosler makes some nice Hunting Ballistic Tips that should work much better. They come in 90 and 95 grain. Or a 90 grain Accubond wouldn’t be a bad choice, either.
Word of wisdom from a BR shooter, if that rifle has been stored cocked, your striker spring could be causing the high SD's. Also, anything dragging inside the bolt will cause the same thing. You need a special too to swap the spring, but springs are cheep.
True. I have a varmint rifle that was giving less than ideal groups. This is the 3rd barrel I have put on this action. Still had the factory spring. Changed springs and the accuracy and SD improved considerably.
Father in law hade a 243 , he was always trying to make it go faster than my 257 Rbt's. When he loaded them with respectable amounts it shot pretty good an inch or less he used 100 grain bullets and 4895 powder.
To help you understand internal ballistics or why we get high ES's... I read an article about a test someone did on barrels. They used some kind of measuring device and saw that there was a shock wave so to speak that went from the chamber to the muzzle four or five times before the bullet exited. He concluded that in scattered nodes and groups with high ES's the bullet was exiting when the shock wave was at the muzzle.
That's super interesting!!!! Wow. Maybe thats why my Aero precision is not good with 62 grain varmageddons with 25.0 grains of H335. Groups were terrrrrrrible. 55 grain Varmagedon bullets shot way better.
I did some videos and testing on the subject a few years back. Here's the first one ruclips.net/video/uoBXTrngLxg/видео.html It's been so long I need to go back and watch them again to remember what we learned. It's all voodoo at the hobbyist level. Hard to test or prove much of anything, really.
I had good results with Hornady 95gn SST in the Gun of my Dad (Blaser R93 22inch Barrel) together with 38-40gn of Vithavouri N140. Yes the Casefill was not the best 85-90% but the Accuracy was fine and the SD Numbers not nearly as bad 5 m/s was the highest number the best where around 2.8 m/s, another Load that worked great where Barnes TTSX 80gn also with 39-40 gn N140. Yes N140 is hotter in 243 than Gordons Reloading Tool says by a Ton so be carefull Geco Brass, RWS Primers
I'm still waiting for more published data from Hodgdons for 87gr Hornady Vmax bullets... Lee has "Jacketed Bullet" loads with 3 powders, Hodgdons has 5 loads, but I don't have access to Hornady's manual. And every single load I've found is an Alliant / Accurate / or Vectin (France?) powder. Of which I have none, nor do I want to start using them. 🙁
I had about 100 of the bullets I got from a friend and also tried 45 grains of H4831SC but with fed brass and BR2 primer. Got right at 3000 fps and about an inch group but SD was in the low 20’s like you observed. I have a plan to try these bullets with IMR 4350 to see if I can get the SD to tighten and develop a good varmint/deer load.
I bought my first 243 rifle about 50 years ago and tried a lot of different loads. I finally found the most accurate load with 85 grain Sierra HPBT bullet and 38 grains IMR 4895 and have been shooting that load in all my 243 rifles since . I use it for everthing even deer.
My Sierra reloading manual had the same page missing. I called them and they emailed me the data. I’ll be happy to send you a picture of it if you wish.
Check a newer Lyman manual Johnny. I developed a load with those bullets for a friends .243. 41 grain of IMR 4350. Shot great in his marlin bolt gun. 22 inch barrel. Sub half inch at 100.
Just ran across these vids and want to thank you for showing us your methods for developing this round in that 243! The fact that your are getting those high SD's in velocities makes me question your digital scale's capability. I'm still relatively new at handloading, but I found that I could reduce the SD's when using my Hornady automatic dispenser/balance by using it to get the coarse weight. And then use a manual balance beam to fine tune (trickle in) the charge. My SD's went from double digits to single digits.
I am so glad to see you up your game by going to the Front rest and using a lab radar! You can increase your bench Techniques even further by grabbing the forearm of the rifle, pulling straight back. By using this technique of pulling straight back on the forearm vs squeezing the rear bag, you eliminate muzzle flip. The bullet is in the Barrel for .200 of an inche during recoil, so how you manage that recoil is critical for removing as much human and mechanical error as possible to help you determine the very best accuracy. I am a big fan of your video's, keep them coming! I hope that eventually, you will install a tuner brake on one of your rifle and your fans will be SHOCKED at how an inexpensive factory rifle will shoot like a $4500 custom gun! EC Tuner Brake, RAS tuner Brake, Harrell Precision Tuner brake, and Ezel Tuners are shocking in how easy they tune a load down to a single bullet hole. When using a tuner, it is easy to tune. Start off at the very rear of the thread and work up your best load. When you have your best load for that bullet and powder, start moving the tuner OUT in increments of no More than two graduations on the tuner, shooting two shot groups. This is a dumb butt simple way to tune, and it has worked for me for 25 years. A best friend invented the Browning BOSS system and we played with it extensively many years ago.
I've been using IMR4831 and 90gr nosler accubonds. The combo does really good for me. I don't have a chrono so I'm not sure on the speeds, but I've shot the smallest groups I've ever shot with this load.
I think one issue you might be running into is anemic load data. Your velocities were awful low for the cartridge and bullet weight, and when powder can shift too much spreads can increase. Things seemed to improve with slower burning powder, like the 4831, so it might be time to just keep working your way up. I've found this issue with any small bore/big case cartridge. My 25/06 was much the same way. Once I started getting into that 95%+ casefill territory, that's when things really improved.
If the loads are low so are the pressures. Some powders work pretty ok at lower pressures some seem to work best at higher pressure when just under maximum loads ..
I'm telling you, try imr4895 or imr4064. Had good luck with both, dependent on barrel length. Still use this bullet for my 243s. I use cci200 primers too
I can see those 25/06 dies in the background. You should make a video on it if you still have a gun chambered in it. I have a 257 wby that is wicked on deer.
I've recently had a set of Lee 308 win where I wasn't getting any shoulder bump with the die touching the shell holder. I had to progressively grind down the shell holder until I was getting shoulder bump. It was a problem for me because I was using once fired brass from another gun.
You certainly accomplished what you set out to but clearly there is more potential there. I wonder if a firing pin spring would help the ignition be more consistent?
IMR4064 does great for me with 39.0gr with 85gr Gameking at 3350 fps and 39.5gr. with 80 gr. Barnes tipped at 3400 fps. Both in Lapua brass and CCI large rifle primer. Tikka T3 .50 -.70 groups at 100 yards. These are my hunting loads and above max. So work up slowly in your weapon.
4451 is right there in the same happy place. I have duplicated 4350 loads in multiple calibers with it. Seems to be good to me. In a old 30-06 Mauser it actually beat it in accuracy.
You need a testing scope. I like 20-45x at 100 yds. Look at Sightron or SS from SWFA. They both have some options from $300-$1000 that could help with this.
First of all, I’m loving the videos! You do a good job of covering what people want to see. I see 2 things affecting your Sd/powder burn. Your powders are no where near the optimal powder and some loads are way low pressure. Well 4451 seem to be running about about right. For example, H4831 should over compress about 47 gr before pressure. I would try RE16; RE26; H4350…..and if you really want to run IMR, try IMR 4350. If 3000 fps is your goal, maybe IMR4831; H4831; or Win 780.
Have you played around with GRT and the OBT function? You have a lot of data to input all you need is case capacity. Thank you for another great video.
It’s been a minute since I had a 243, but it seems to me that with an 85 grain bullet should be running well over 3000 with no trouble of any kind. I think I used to to run H414.
Might check those case necks for concentricity or mic them and see if ur neck thickness varies enough to cause the weird velocity and stringing issues. Never had very much luck with Winchester cases
Superformance 45.8 grains with 85 grains bullet I got 0.75 inch group of 5 shots 102 meters, velocities 3301 average of 5 shots with Savage axis 1, barrel 22 inches
Had man keep work Shannon. Love the 233 win. Dose all favor keep these video coming. I'm Starting to mess with my 243 win single shot. Try some 95 gr silver balistic tips from nosler same one winchesters loads factory bc toom deer factory ammo. I'm loading them stayball 6.5. I also herd lot guys swear by 4350 in 243win
The loads seem kinda anemic to me especially for a 85gr bullet. I have mine loaded with a 100gr Sierra Gameking with around 42gr of IMR4350 pushing 2900fps and 1/4in groups at 100yrd.. with pretty much the same rifle as you sir mines a 700 CDL with 4-12x40
i didn't see your videos on the Staball 6.5 but according to Hodgdon and Winchester they said that Staball 6.5 is best if loaded to at least 95% case capacity.
My 6mm in a old 600 rem loves 1520 sierra MAX load 47.5 imr4831 (??) cci 200 primers, HOT, and sub MOA. Just not sure how well it will drop big bucks. My 6mm HATES bullets pat 85 grains. 115 grains and I get 12" groups. 55 grain, it STACKS THEM.
been long time since I loaded 243, best load I found winchester cases , CCI primers, Serria 87 bthp, out of rem 700 heavy barrel I do not remember case measurements, I'm thinking I used 42.7 grains 4895 and it shot super, and could have been up to 43.1 sorry just don't remember I no longer have the data that was way back there sorry
Have you checked the bedding on that rifle or even if the action screws are correctly torqued? Those rifles were often pressure bedded at the front of the foreend - might be causing an issue?
could be, i get crappy numbers with Lapua brass in .308, Could be the fact he is using an electronic powder measure. Doing it the old fashioned way can get you down to the kernel.
A little off topic possibly but I’ve skimmed through videos trying to answer my question and I can’t find anything. Do you have any experience with IMR 4166? I’ve heard that it’s a great choice for .223 but I haven’t seen any first hand experience. Your channel being the only one I trust I figured I would ask you.
I know you're at a level well beyond most but sub 1 inch at 3000 fps is good to go for 99.9% of game hunting unless your working on prairie dogs at 600 yards. I'd call it a win.
We all know you can just drop this and move on to something else I'd be willing to bet next video is going to be another 243 video... or if not next video it won't be 2 far down the line. Then again you did promise more 22-250 videos after your 1st one and we did see that gun again for a year or 2... LOL
You know you are gonna keep working the "Papaw" gun until it lands where you want it. Everyone who pulls Papaw's old rifle out of the safe and starts shooting it goes on the quest of the fabled loading that has them shooting as well as they remember him shooting. I have a friend who went down this rabbit hole with an old 220 swift that he inherited.
It's the quest we all go on... To reach the same level as we remember him at.
Along the way, through the nostalgia and the frustration, we see that Papaw is still schooling us long after he is gone, and it's AWESOME. It's the last right of passage.
I hope we see more of this Papaw project play out in your own way. 🙂
Millions of people are 243 fans including myself. I personally would love a whole series on it. But I watch everything you load for anyways
OMG! Another .243 video so soon! I was just loading up some test rounds in this caliber this afternoon. Thanks, JRB!
Keep going don't stop now this is what reloading is about getting that perfect set up for the gun this is what we come to watch
Down the rabbit hole!
Agree. Finding the load is the fun.
36 grains of IMR 4064 and that bullet is my 243 load. I love it. Great video as always.
My load is 38 gr. IMR 4064 , same bullet and is very accurate
An extra video this week! Woo Hoo!
This video series is great. I hope to see another video on this rifle in the future.
Great video. I've always had great s.d. with Winchester primers. Anytime i cant get good s.d. i switch to vihtavuori powders and voila. Single digit s.d
I have had very good experience with that bullet and IMR 4895. Have used this combination for many years
I need a set of those calipers. Every time I think the group is 1.5" it's sub moa. Excellent video and I love that rifle.
I'm enjoying this segment on the rifles that you have in the Back of the safe. keep up the good work. -Dave
I have used 85 grain SGK’s in 243win for 8 years now culling deer and when I first used them you could get H4831sc in the UK. I remember the Lee manual saying 48grains of h4831 with a compressed charge and it shot very precisely and the book quoted 3200fps.
I now use Vihtavouri N550 and have chronographed them at 3250fps.
42.3 grains of N550 with a cci 200 primer with a Norma case. 👍🏻
Ed here lot of uk deer hunter saying love 243 win on deer their 95gr or 100gr even herd guys using 105gr
@@jamespugh big time, the 105gr stuff with an 8twist is very good and flat shooting especially out of a 26” barrel. We are changing over to copper bullets soon and a friend of mine owns Yew Tree Fieldsports and has designed an 80grain copper which is lethal. He is also selling various ELR hunting bullets.
90 grain game changer with 43.0 grains of h4350 👍👍
I've had really good luck with imr 4350 in my 243 loads. Especially with Sierra Game kings.
What grain Game Kings are you using and what on game experience do you have? I ask because I have used 95 grain Nosler Ballistics Tips in the past, but bullet prices are making me look at alternatives.
Hey man you have helped me a ton thank you!!! I wanted to give my load for my 22 inch 700 Adl in .243. Barns 80grn ttsx. Hybrid 100 at 43.5 grns. 1/2 inch groups for hunting. 3289fps. I love this gun. Take care!!!
Nice!!!
Got to admit that a bolt gun in this calibre is a thing I am really interested in. Such a classic!
A fantastic video to help deal with a non-fantastic week. Appreciate the extra effort!
Hodgdon Superformance is a great .243 Win powder for me
I have always used 100gr bullets with 4350, really tight groups and deer dropped in their tracks
Exactly!
Appreciate the time & thought put into this rifle & round. I enjoyed it.
I used to take the old Savage 110's in .243 with the " Buggy Whip " barrel, glass bed them and free float them. Sierra had a 60 grain hollow point that I loaded I think to 33-3,400 fps .
this combination was deadly accurate shooters with Remington 700's would pack up and leave when I drove up the the rifle range. That 60 grain bullet turned many a ground hog inside out.
And every deer I shot with it with 90 gr. bullets dropped with one shot. My three sons have those rifles now and I am still loading ammunition for them . I hope they pass them down. The right load makes almost any rifle a tack driver.
It may sound weird but usually I shoot at a lower power on the scopes than the max. A 9 or 12 power Ill still be between 5 and 7. It seems to not magnify any movement of the reticle and I usually get better groups than anyone else who shoots the same gun. Varget powder works extremely well in most any rifle calibers i use
Over the past several years loading for my Remington 700 and my son's Savage I've had excellent results using H414 and IMR4350. Since H414 has been discontinued, I've been using W760, which is basically the same powder. I use to use CCI primers in the past (off & on), but over the last 10 years I've whittled it down to Fed 210M and Winchester specifically. In most loads Federals do very well, but often (when they won't) I'll swap them out for Winchesters and they will improve group size.....where one doesn't, usually the other one does kinda thing. Six of one, half a dozen for the other. As the old general rule goes, I've had the best luck accuracy wise using a powder that fills the case to the base of the seated bullet. Compressed loads rarely perform better than that. I've tried faster powders and in some cases they do fairly well but not as good as the slower 90-100% fill powders. As said, varying primers, fast & slow, stick & ball powders, etc., you eventually find a mix that works.
Loving the 243 videos. One thing I have read numerous times is that 243 seems to like a shorter COL than published in many rifles. Might be worth playing with. Don’t give up on grandpa’s favourite rifle!
Those loads with 4451 aren't any worse than really good factory ammo. The SD's may not be where you want them, but as far as groups, I'd mess with COAL and see what it would do. I wouldn't write it off, is all I'm saying... Good to have multiple options for loads in this day in age.
In both of my 26in. Heavy barrels which I use mainly for coyotes an groundhogs 65gr. 75 gr an 87gr imr 3031 an imr 4064 varget powder 243 is one of my ALL time favorites
IMR4064 has been very suprising in both .243s I've owned.
The app has data for 85g SPT and HPBT. For what it's worth, same data for both. 43.3g with the **. Great video, thanks for your work
3170 fps out of a 24" 1:8 barrel at 2.590"
More please sir !!!
The .243 is Very popular for deer and it’s a great groundhog or coyote round as well.
It would be a really good series.
If/when you make the next .243 video
I would like to see more H4831 loads.
With a full case and higher velocity I bet those SDs and groups could be cut in half.
I load my sons .243 with 100g Nosler partition over a max charge of
Hybrid 100V. Very nice load for VA
deer/bear.
I love your videos brother.
Very informative and entertaining.
your having the same problems that i have when using seirra bullets in a remimington 1-9 1/8 twist 22in brl, no matter what powder you use the groups suck. when i switched to hornady bullets the groups tightened up a lot. you might give their 87gn bthp a try, hornady used to list these as medium game bullets up until their 10th edition came out. I use IMR4350 for good case fill and watch SD numbers drop with some really good groups and a smile on my face.
I spent a lot of frustrating hours trying to get my 243 to shoot. When I discovered the 87 grain vmax my gun started drilling! Sub half moa on many groups. But probably averaging around .40 moa on 3 shot groups at 100. Definitely give them a try.
Yep. 87 vmax and a full case of h4831sc
Hold on!! Hornady V-MAX aren’t hunting bullets. They’re varmint bullets. They’re meant to explode on contact, not drill into your deer or bear. No, Nosler makes some nice Hunting Ballistic Tips that should work much better. They come in 90 and 95 grain. Or a 90 grain Accubond wouldn’t be a bad choice, either.
Love that cartridge!
Word of wisdom from a BR shooter, if that rifle has been stored cocked, your striker spring could be causing the high SD's. Also, anything dragging inside the bolt will cause the same thing. You need a special too to swap the spring, but springs are cheep.
True. I have a varmint rifle that was giving less than ideal groups. This is the 3rd barrel I have put on this action. Still had the factory spring. Changed springs and the accuracy and SD improved considerably.
I have used 4320 with a 95 gr. Nosler partition with good luck.
I got some nosler 95 gr Silvertip ballistic tips load up for 243 win to try with stayball6.5
Father in law hade a 243 , he was always trying to make it go faster than my 257 Rbt's. When he loaded them with respectable amounts it shot pretty good an inch or less he used 100 grain bullets and 4895 powder.
yeah a 257 Roberts is a good round. We have a Roberts with a Davis barrel and it's a shooter.
To help you understand internal ballistics or why we get high ES's... I read an article about a test someone did on barrels. They used some kind of measuring device and saw that there was a shock wave so to speak that went from the chamber to the muzzle four or five times before the bullet exited. He concluded that in scattered nodes and groups with high ES's the bullet was exiting when the shock wave was at the muzzle.
That's super interesting!!!! Wow. Maybe thats why my Aero precision is not good with 62 grain varmageddons with 25.0 grains of H335. Groups were terrrrrrrible. 55 grain Varmagedon bullets shot way better.
I did some videos and testing on the subject a few years back. Here's the first one ruclips.net/video/uoBXTrngLxg/видео.html
It's been so long I need to go back and watch them again to remember what we learned.
It's all voodoo at the hobbyist level. Hard to test or prove much of anything, really.
NO !!!! don't
move on ..... there are a lot of us that love the .243 and LOVE YOUR WORK, so keep working on this one PLEASEEEEEEEEEEEE!
I had good results with Hornady 95gn SST in the Gun of my Dad (Blaser R93 22inch Barrel) together with 38-40gn of Vithavouri N140. Yes the Casefill was not the best 85-90% but the Accuracy was fine and the SD Numbers not nearly as bad 5 m/s was the highest number the best where around 2.8 m/s, another Load that worked great where Barnes TTSX 80gn also with 39-40 gn N140.
Yes N140 is hotter in 243 than Gordons Reloading Tool says by a Ton so be carefull
Geco Brass, RWS Primers
With my 243 shooting 90gn ELDx with H4350 at 41.3gn. Getting ~3160.
I'm still waiting for more published data from Hodgdons for 87gr Hornady Vmax bullets...
Lee has "Jacketed Bullet" loads with 3 powders, Hodgdons has 5 loads, but I don't have access to Hornady's manual.
And every single load I've found is an Alliant / Accurate / or Vectin (France?) powder. Of which I have none, nor do I want to start using them. 🙁
I had about 100 of the bullets I got from a friend and also tried 45 grains of H4831SC but with fed brass and BR2 primer. Got right at 3000 fps and about an inch group but SD was in the low 20’s like you observed. I have a plan to try these bullets with IMR 4350 to see if I can get the SD to tighten and develop a good varmint/deer load.
I bought my first 243 rifle about 50 years ago and tried a lot of different loads. I finally found the most accurate load with 85 grain Sierra HPBT bullet and 38 grains IMR 4895 and have been shooting that load in all my 243 rifles since . I use it for everthing even deer.
My Sierra reloading manual had the same page missing. I called them and they emailed me the data. I’ll be happy to send you a picture of it if you wish.
Sweet vid! We need more 6ARC!
Check a newer Lyman manual Johnny. I developed a load with those bullets for a friends .243. 41 grain of IMR 4350. Shot great in his marlin bolt gun. 22 inch barrel. Sub half inch at 100.
Just ran across these vids and want to thank you for showing us your methods for developing this round in that 243! The fact that your are getting those high SD's in velocities makes me question your digital scale's capability. I'm still relatively new at handloading, but I found that I could reduce the SD's when using my Hornady automatic dispenser/balance by using it to get the coarse weight. And then use a manual balance beam to fine tune (trickle in) the charge. My SD's went from double digits to single digits.
I am so glad to see you up your game by going to the Front rest and using a lab radar! You can increase your bench Techniques even further by grabbing the forearm of the rifle, pulling straight back. By using this technique of pulling straight back on the forearm vs squeezing the rear bag, you eliminate muzzle flip. The bullet is in the Barrel for .200 of an inche during recoil, so how you manage that recoil is critical for removing as much human and mechanical error as possible to help you determine the very best accuracy. I am a big fan of your video's, keep them coming!
I hope that eventually, you will install a tuner brake on one of your rifle and your fans will be SHOCKED at how an inexpensive factory rifle will shoot like a $4500 custom gun! EC Tuner Brake, RAS tuner Brake, Harrell Precision Tuner brake, and Ezel Tuners are shocking in how easy they tune a load down to a single bullet hole. When using a tuner, it is easy to tune. Start off at the very rear of the thread and work up your best load. When you have your best load for that bullet and powder, start moving the tuner OUT in increments of no More than two graduations on the tuner, shooting two shot groups. This is a dumb butt simple way to tune, and it has worked for me for 25 years. A best friend invented the Browning BOSS system and we played with it extensively many years ago.
IMR4064 is what you want with the 85 Sierra GK; no need to reinvent the wheel
you got that right. he needs to try it and stop looking and be done lol
I've been using IMR4831 and 90gr nosler accubonds. The combo does really good for me. I don't have a chrono so I'm not sure on the speeds, but I've shot the smallest groups I've ever shot with this load.
Didn’t know they made an accubond in 6mm 👍🏽
I think one issue you might be running into is anemic load data. Your velocities were awful low for the cartridge and bullet weight, and when powder can shift too much spreads can increase. Things seemed to improve with slower burning powder, like the 4831, so it might be time to just keep working your way up. I've found this issue with any small bore/big case cartridge. My 25/06 was much the same way. Once I started getting into that 95%+ casefill territory, that's when things really improved.
Absolutely! Pretty anemic loads.
If the loads are low so are the pressures. Some powders work pretty ok at lower pressures some seem to work best at higher pressure when just under maximum loads ..
I'm telling you, try imr4895 or imr4064. Had good luck with both, dependent on barrel length. Still use this bullet for my 243s. I use cci200 primers too
Try the hornady 95gr sst. My .243 tikka loves them
I can see those 25/06 dies in the background. You should make a video on it if you still have a gun chambered in it. I have a 257 wby that is wicked on deer.
I've recently had a set of Lee 308 win where I wasn't getting any shoulder bump with the die touching the shell holder. I had to progressively grind down the shell holder until I was getting shoulder bump. It was a problem for me because I was using once fired brass from another gun.
Loved the video and the 243. Hope to see it again soon. I’m gonna start reloading 243 soon any chance you can try H4350 in the next one.
For a hunting rifle for guests, what does everyone think acceptable accuracy is? I think 1" is more than adequate.
Their shooting ability will probably be a bigger factor than whether the rifle is shooting an inch group or an inch and a half.
You certainly accomplished what you set out to but clearly there is more potential there. I wonder if a firing pin spring would help the ignition be more consistent?
I'll pick up a spring before I shoot it again. Do you use the Tubb springs?
I used a Wolf spring from MidwayUSA
Maybe try a box or two of nice factory hunting ammo and see how it compares with velocity and SD?
IMR4064 does great for me with 39.0gr with 85gr Gameking at 3350 fps and 39.5gr. with 80 gr. Barnes tipped at 3400 fps. Both in Lapua brass and CCI large rifle primer. Tikka T3 .50 -.70 groups at 100 yards. These are my hunting loads and above max. So work up slowly in your weapon.
Same bullet with 41 hrs of IMR 4895. My go to load.
I bet you use alot of 4895 & sweep alot of it off the bench & floor. Lol! 🤣✌️
4350 is what you want for powder. It is the tried and true powder.
4451 is right there in the same happy place. I have duplicated 4350 loads in multiple calibers with it. Seems to be good to me. In a old 30-06 Mauser it actually beat it in accuracy.
I've had decent results in 243 with H414, using a slightly lighter bullet, but it may be worth a shot.
I run h4831ss in mine and I shoot 1/2 inch groups. Nothing like hodge powders
You need a testing scope. I like 20-45x at 100 yds. Look at Sightron or SS from SWFA. They both have some options from $300-$1000 that could help with this.
First of all, I’m loving the videos! You do a good job of covering what people want to see.
I see 2 things affecting your Sd/powder burn. Your powders are no where near the optimal powder and some loads are way low pressure. Well 4451 seem to be running about about right. For example, H4831 should over compress about 47 gr before pressure.
I would try RE16; RE26; H4350…..and if you really want to run IMR, try IMR 4350.
If 3000 fps is your goal, maybe IMR4831; H4831; or Win 780.
Have you played around with GRT and the OBT function? You have a lot of data to input all you need is case capacity. Thank you for another great video.
You can’t go wrong with IMR 4064
IMR4064 is magic with 85gr sierras
Used to be Sierra accuracy load in their old loading manuals for years.
It’s been a minute since I had a 243, but it seems to me that with an 85 grain bullet should be running well over 3000 with no trouble of any kind. I think I used to to run H414.
85 SMK + IMR 4320: My dad in 80's took a pronghorn at 545 yards with a Mossberg bolt action HB. Sub 1 moa groups
If it's for hunting only. One shot cold bore group. Second shot take notes
Might check those case necks for concentricity or mic them and see if ur neck thickness varies enough to cause the weird velocity and stringing issues. Never had very much luck with Winchester cases
In the Sierra app with that bullet is shows 43.3 as max load.
The Seirra app says 43.3 grs for 4451 end.
I've had great luck using imr 3031 out of my son 243 win
Superformance 45.8 grains with 85 grains bullet I got 0.75 inch group of 5 shots 102 meters, velocities 3301 average of 5 shots with Savage axis 1, barrel 22 inches
Had man keep work Shannon. Love the 233 win. Dose all favor keep these video coming. I'm Starting to mess with my 243 win single shot. Try some 95 gr silver balistic tips from nosler same one winchesters loads factory bc toom deer factory ammo. I'm loading them stayball 6.5. I also herd lot guys swear by 4350 in 243win
I have the same rifle. I get the best velocity and sd with imr 3031
The loads seem kinda anemic to me especially for a 85gr bullet. I have mine loaded with a 100gr Sierra Gameking with around 42gr of IMR4350 pushing 2900fps and 1/4in groups at 100yrd.. with pretty much the same rifle as you sir mines a 700 CDL with 4-12x40
H4350 and them bullets will shoot golf balls at 500
thank you
i didn't see your videos on the Staball 6.5 but according to Hodgdon and Winchester they said that Staball 6.5 is best if loaded to at least 95% case capacity.
39.0gr IMR 4166 works very well for me with that bullet.
My 6mm in a old 600 rem loves 1520 sierra MAX load 47.5 imr4831 (??) cci 200 primers, HOT, and sub MOA. Just not sure how well it will drop big bucks. My 6mm HATES bullets pat 85 grains. 115 grains and I get 12" groups. 55 grain, it STACKS THEM.
In my 243 (Rem660) case capacity has to be 90%+ to bring the SD down. I think it's a pretty common problem with 243.
been long time since I loaded 243, best load I found winchester cases , CCI primers, Serria 87 bthp, out of rem 700 heavy barrel I do not remember case measurements, I'm thinking I used 42.7 grains 4895 and it shot super, and could have been up to 43.1 sorry just don't remember I no longer have the data that was way back there sorry
I like hybrid v100 for the 60 to 95 grain bullets
I'm hoping there is a 270Win in the gun cabinet that needs oiled up :)
Have you checked the bedding on that rifle or even if the action screws are correctly torqued? Those rifles were often pressure bedded at the front of the foreend - might be causing an issue?
We all have fading eyes at some point. Unfortunately the wisdom comes after things start fading... 🤣
That rifle needs to be bedded. Those horizontal strings a screaming at me.
try IMR4064, works well with light 6mm bullets. E
I am just going to guess the brass is the culprit. 4 different powders with 2 different primers all with crappy sd numbers
could be, i get crappy numbers with Lapua brass in .308,
Could be the fact he is using an electronic powder measure. Doing it the old fashioned way can get you down to the kernel.
A little off topic possibly but I’ve skimmed through videos trying to answer my question and I can’t find anything. Do you have any experience with IMR 4166? I’ve heard that it’s a great choice for .223 but I haven’t seen any first hand experience. Your channel being the only one I trust I figured I would ask you.
I know you're at a level well beyond most but sub 1 inch at 3000 fps is good to go for 99.9% of game hunting unless your working on prairie dogs at 600 yards. I'd call it a win.
My grandpa favorite calibers for prairie dogs was .243 and .25-06.
Fun nontheless.
Do yourself a favor and load some 105gr ... I have loaded so many bullets for my .243 Sako Varminter and found the heavier bullet is way more stable.
Notice how the forearm is jumping up very quickly off of the front rest?
We all know you can just drop this and move on to something else I'd be willing to bet next video is going to be another 243 video... or if not next video it won't be 2 far down the line. Then again you did promise more 22-250 videos after your 1st one and we did see that gun again for a year or 2... LOL
All my 243 shoot the best at Max book loads or about a half a grain over loads with no pressure signs.
Imo that Tupperware stock is handicapping your groups.
That rifle so needs a bedding.