Not even 3 minutes into this and I'm already asking myself why anyone would consider trouncing Billy Carson in a debate as a note worthy feat? This is like watching children arguing over whether or not Batman could beat Superman.
I'm surprised. I saw 3 replies under this and thought that the war had begun, but only one may be a serious shot ( I think he was just doing it for the fun ), one comedic tangential reply ( nice ) and one not doing any 'warcraft' at all. Impressive. ;-)
We are skeptics. Carson is a conspiracy theorist. Apologists are bullshitters. We’re not like Carson, and being better than Carson doesn’t vault you up to a level any higher than bare minimum. It's really annoying how owning Carson is being seen as owning the skeptical/critical community as well. None of that is Wes's fault, he's fine. Any atheist Biblical scholar could have put Carson in his place as well.
@planetpeterson2824 When I used to go to church, they taught the devil mixed some truths with lies to make them believable. Sounds like every apologist I've heard and like the church I attended.
way I like to put it is that apologists are closer to lawyers than scholars - they may be educated and they may sound scholarly, but they're ultimately there to push a case, and they aren't interested in hearing anyone else's beyond purely to refute it.
Ya I know and that is why Wes would school this fool as well, when your entire 'argument' against his facts is. "Its not enough proof" your not going to win any argument with an honest audience.
It was never a flex, bro literally just spoke to the man and his claims just fell like a house of cards. The people watching made it a big deal, Wes is just riding the wave.
No one was happy because it was a flex… any of the most minimally informed Christian could’ve corrected Billy Carson. We were happy someone got the opportunity to do so one on one. Simple as that.
@18:08 I think you are giving Wes too much credit, @Paulogia. In the first two hours of his discussion he messed up on the Enuma Elish, Genesis 1 and Canaanite literature. This, to go along with most egregiously of all, his absolutely botched discussion of the most famous of the Dead Sea Scrolls, 1QIsaiah-a.
Whoaaa!! Dr Kipp in the chat! I’d love to see you and Dr Josh on JRE next. Y’all work so well together. Thank you for your child sacrifice video. It was fascinating.
@Paulogia Also, when Wes talks about the fastidiousness of Jewish scribes when compared to Christian scribes, he is projecting backwards onto the earlier periods of manuscript production what was true predominantly at a much later time. From the Dead Sea Scrolls we see pretty clearly that Jewish scribal traditions were NOT fixed prior to the destruction of Herod's temple at the earliest, and with these, neither were the texts themselves. Everything is extremely fluid prior to the second century CE.
Even if every version of every story in the bible survived intact and unchanged, it still doesn't prove that a single thing in those stories was true. For all of Huffs claims to be a historian, he is a pretty typical Presup.
I was thinking this exact same thought while listening to that segment. An exact copy would be only demonstrative of someone’s ability to preserve an ancient text for a long time not the text’s veridity.
@@RunesandReapersWhy can't they be considered eye witness accounts? Claiming to be an eye witness, does not mean you are. Being an eye witness does not mean you remember it correctly. How can we ever know what is correct in the Bible without presupposing. If we had real evidence, we wouldn't even be discussing it.
He Rogan hater. Has he ever claimed otherwise? He is a Podcast host... Oh yeah.. the biggest one in the world. He has to find people for 5 days a week 3 hours a day. He makes it look easy, but most people are not capable of doing what we does, like 99.9999% of people. I love how people all think they are better than people who do what they do better than anyone on the planet.
Rogan often says he’s not that smart but it’s purely a defense in case he gets called out for being wrong. But someone who truly knew they were uninformed wouldn’t pretend to know things they don’t. And with Rogan, he’s worse than uninformed, he’s misinformed. It’s better to know nothing than to be wrong.
I despise the “if it wasn’t true, people would have refuted it!” Excuse me? Are you seriously saying false information NEVER propagates? People legitimately believe school bathrooms have litter boxes!!
Not at that time period. The story of the risen king who would later bring the Roman Empire to its knees completely opposed the Empire. They would have done everything within their power to destroy such claim by showing jesus’s body. The Roman Empire was under authoritarian rule so looking at history from a liberal view is stupid You completely lack historical context
I have never heard a convincing rebuttal to what I'm about to say: Christian apologetics is an agenda driven project that involves defending Christianity as the primary goal. That is not the same thing as being a truth seeker. Plain and simple.
Biblical skepticism is an agenda driven project that involves rebutting Biblical faith as the primary goal. That is not the same thing as being a truth seeker. Plain and simple.
@JS-fu8iu Are you seriously suggesting that skepticism (suspending judgement when evaluating a claim) is the same as dogmatically promoting a religion?
@@JS-fu8iu History says otherwise. Your truth is based on belief, not what is. Truth is what has been, and what actually is. Seeking truth involves searching all cultures, stories, and meanings. Truth under your context is just what you are commanded to believe to know. That is not seeking truth, nor wisdom. Parroting is not a rebuttal.
I mean to be honest someone who is religious that also goes with other religious people who work in the science field. My daughter is Jewish and he’s gay and he works as a I should just say daughter because I don’t know what the hell kind of biology he works on Maybe mental health anyway he is my doctor and my mother’s doctor. Let’s be fair. This is normal.
as a non-native speaker of English, I love when they mention the "dead sea squirrels" sure, I hear the actual word they say (scrolls), but my brain keeps playing.
And not a single actual person has ever been proven to exist ....not one? We can find 5000 year old egyptian mummies, evidence of asian civilations dating back 10,000 years. And proof of neanderthals creating tools. But this book rewritten a hundred times is proof of a bronze age god . These people need to up their meds to keep the delusions at bay.
So when an atheist is caught lying, all sides tell them off. (which is good) If an apologist is caught lying most religious people on their side ignore it. Even if they admit to intentionally using a lower standard of evidence for their wanted positions than the opposition... Curious.
@@jonnymars7164 I was originally against Billy's claims, and then after listening to him and Wes argue (and researching their claims) it's now obvious that Wes is just a clout chasing liar (he was wrong about 3 of his 4 points towards Carson, and the 4th where he was right was Billy making an easy to make mistake).
@@jonnymars7164 Billy HAS been outed by a non believer. That believers also later outed Billy and Wes is being talked about doesn't make Wes the only one that outed Billy.
This is not an unusual thing. Experts start doing apologetics. They start off as scholars, giving specific facts, not speaking in hyperbole, focusing on accuracy... then they find out how much support and money they get as apologists and how little work they really need to do (subconsciously sometimes) and they stop putting in effort and just regurgitate the same simple nonsense as all the other ones.
I think Wes is the opposite though. He started as an apologist and he is becoming a scholar. It sounds like he's responding to some of the criticism of his statements with an interest to become more informed, and that's laudable.
Look at you celebrating anything that may be against Wes. Stop being jealous because of Wes meteoric rise: you are doing the exact thing you cried Christian’s were doing online. You are even more biased and stuck in your conclusions than most Christian’s online
@@EvilXtianity my comment has nothing to do with who should or shouldn’t be challenged: if you want to address my comment specifically then do so if not reply to someone else. I am specifically focused on the hypocrisy and cheerleading of Mythvision, something they themselves complained that others were doing
@@BakiVSKengan _"I am specifically focused on the hypocrisy and cheerleading of Mythvision..."_ Provide an example of what offended you. I should note that both channels are on my channel's recommended list.
@ when did I mention being offended ? Lol. Twice you have missed the mark. I have directly told you what I am focusing on and you still are making it about something else. I did not say mythvision offended me at all. Is this Derek’s alt?
I think you're misspelling it. I think when Billy says that, he's saying "Sci-Nye" Bible. I can only guess at the backstory going on there, and the sad thing is that nothing I invent right now will likely be as mad as what Billy actually thinks.
@@xmillion1704 Weird. I have never heard it called that. Codex Aleph sure. Not saying it isn't in 25 years always heard Sinaiticus w/ or w/o Codex or Aleph.
@@xmillion1704 Probably from Carson and similar. I studied the academic stuff back 20 years ago on it. It is entirely possibly some call it that. Wes is right it pretty much says what most modern Bible's read. Of course there are textual variants etc. AFAIK nothing that would change any content of the NT itself. I say this as a former Christian.
Never heard of Huff. Will edit this comment after watching. Edit: Huff easily cleared the low bar of Carson, a self-declared expert with Terence Howard syndrome. However, he followed it up with the usual baffling credulity all used-god salesmen display with regard to the Gospels. How terribly...unsurprising. But I guess that's the difference between apologists and scholars. And Rogan, being Rogan, just Roganned in response. I also strongly doubt his credentials as an expert in comedy. Being laughable isn't the same as being funny.
Rogan literally just has conversations with people on his podcast. I dont know why anyone has an issue with that. He doesn't claim to be an expert in any of these things. He just chats with people. You can form your own opinions.
I'm going to make the prediction that Wes just spouts the same old worn out, easily refuted, word salad apologetics that have been debunked for decades.
I think Justin from 'Deconstruction Zone would wipe the floor with this guy. I anyone hasn't heard of him you should check him out, he has an encyclopedic memory on all things Christian.
Bart Ehrman will never be invited on this JRE. If he is, he’ll get the same treatment Flint Dibble got after he crushed Graham Hancock in their “debate” on JRE. Rogan used to be a bit more fair - but those days are long gone.
I'm starting to think you could do the "I got your nose!" trick with your thumb and fingers on Joe Rogan, and he would legitimately believe you did indeed get his nose.
I can respect that he realizes he's not that bright. I cannot respect however that he shows no introspection or self awareness for that fact. He keeps happily bringing on propagandists to spew bs with zero pushback, and doesn't try to make that not happen.
@@TheUnseenPath "conspiracy theorist" is just a feather and tar insult used by people who want an excuse to be bigoted so don't expect an apt description when it's used
Thank you Paul for taking a stab at this one. I’ve been frustrated by all the apologists and regular Joe Christian’s losing their minds over this guy who isn’t saying a single thing different than has ever been said before.
@@mikewilliams6025 It's because Joe Rogan is hard to impress, so if you get him to say wow during an interview then it means you had a rock solid argument.
I feel sorry for all the christians getting so excited for this. I'm a former seminary student turned quasi atheist and I watched the interview and genuinely didn't think there was anything major that was said. Just same old rhetoric just on a larger platform. I suppose if it makes them happy then that's good but I just feel sorry that they think it's a win. I hope they aren't too disappointed in the end.
Yeah, in my experience they're mostly cheerleaders looking for a team captain, not actually interested in figuring out the consequences of the beliefs they espouse. E.g. GodLogic claims Deuteronomy 36:2 (iirc) proves Trinity. Why? God is mentioned as father of Israelites. Not God as The Father. Just... a father of a nation. And thats sufficient evidence. They mostly just accept whatever is offered as an answer, regardless of if it makes sense, and you're a great apologist if you can come up with any answer. Like our buddy above, its a deeply emotional topic for them.
@natarian I was going to keep being an atheist but since you used ALL CAPS I am now persuaded and will follow your admonishment to believe in Jesus. (Because belief is simply an act of will, right? And I’d be silly not to bow to someone yelling existential threats in a YT comments section)
@@VeridicusMaximus What did he say that was inaccurate about P52? There is some debate on the dating. Some say 95 one end and others saying 175. General accepted dating is generally 100-150. Dating this stuff is tricky w/o destroying parts of it. One mistake what is truth according to wikipedia (I know I know) and others is not on the extant part of the MSS. I am curious if I missed something.
@@njspencer79 Finding this mss in Egypt does not push the autograph to the lifetime of the disciples and even if we grant a 125 CE dating 24 years is plenty of time for it to get to Egypt - even if it was written in Ephesus! Also, the presumed origin of the gospel, in Ephesus, is based on Roberts (c.1935) work and people just run with it like Wes did. We don't know who the author was or where the autograph was written! It is also interesting that John's Logos theology is an adaptation from Philo's middle platonic ideas - who was also from Egypt. So as usual apologists exaggerate and BS their way to a conclusion that they want to be in line with their dogmas!
@@VeridicusMaximus Ok I missed his assertion on the lifetime of the apostle John. I had always heard back when I was a Christian within a generation or two of John assuming he lived to about 99-101 AD. I don't dispute your statements on that. I have it on a tie despite not being a Christian. I think its a cool piece of historic writing. Not that I think its God breathed. Early by historic standards and well preserved does not make the NT 100% non-fiction IMO.
apparently apocrypha becomes canon if it's to favor apologetics - and if canon quotes apocrypha (jude/enoch) then canon just means whatever favors the argument
I disagree with your statement that Paul is our only eyewitness... Paul never met the living Jesus. He is not an eyewitness. The author of Acts claims that Paul had a vision of Jesus several years after Jesus died. And the people with Paul claimed they did not see Jesus. It's not very trustworthy.
I am not an expert in the field but I think you are miscontruing it all. What they are saying is that Paul is the only person who claims to have seen the risen Jesus. As in, Paul is the only person who is known to have written a book making the claim of haven seen the risen Jesus. No other disciple/apostle personally made such claim.
Wait, I don't wanna chase around: doesn't Paul in his own epistles (like 2nd Corinthians iirc) say Jesus in a vision told him to go preach? I agree that doesn't make him an eyewitness in any meaningful sense; but its not just Acts claiming he had a vision. As far as we can tell, Paul himself often used his vision as source of credibility among Christians. No?
Where’s the proof of the supernatural?" The proof is in the math and science! Let me break it down for you: 1. The Universe Is Fine-Tuned The universe didn’t just happen to support life-it’s balanced on a razor’s edge. For example: Strength of Gravity: If it were off by even 1 part in 10⁶⁰, stars couldn’t form. Cosmological Constant (expansion of the universe): It’s fine-tuned to 1 part in 10¹²⁰! These odds are so astronomically low that scientists have compared it to a tornado assembling a Boeing 747 out of a junkyard. 2. This Isn’t “God of the Gaps” Some skeptics dismiss this as a "God of the Gaps" argument, saying, “You’re just using God to explain what we don’t know.” But here’s the difference: God of the Gaps says, “We can’t explain X, so God did it.” Fine-Tuning asks, “Why does this incredibly precise, life-permitting order exist at all?” It’s not about what we don’t know-it’s about what we DO KNOW: The universe operates under insanely precise constants that demand an explanation. 3. Consciousness: Mind from No Mind? Atoms and molecules are mindless, yet we have thoughts, emotions, the ability to make decisions and self-awareness. How can something without a mind create beings with minds? Science can explain how neurons fire, but it can’t explain why we’re conscious at all. This points to a reality beyond materialism-a Creator who is both intelligent and personal. 4 The Odds Are Rigged Some argue, “Improbable doesn’t mean impossible.” True. But let’s be real: --> If someone wins the lottery once, it’s luck. --> If they win it 300 times in a row, it’s obviously not chance-it’s rigged. --> Fine-tuning and consciousness aren’t just lucky-they’re like winning the universal lottery hundreds of times over. Conclusion: The evidence isn’t about plugging gaps in our knowledge; it’s about confronting the overwhelming improbability of random chance. The natural world doesn’t just suggest order-it screams design. Maybe it’s time to listen.
@@xaviervelascosuarezthose are all natural phenomena, with evidence on how they work and how they came to be. None of that points to anything supernatural or magic
Demands to 'Debate Wes Huff!' have recently started appearing in the comment sections on many atheist RUclipsrs' videos. It's telling that one performance against an incoherent conspiracy theorist is enough for many Christians to hail Huff as a giant of apologetics.
"Confidence does not replace competence" If only that was consistently taken seriously in Christian apologetics. Callout to MrDeity, with his recent CONvert series.
considering that MrDeity has been call out by other atheists like Tim O Neil a misrepresenting sources and taking anti-theist truism at face value without citing actual scholars of religion, I don't think he is an honest figure on this space
Yep Paul letter gives a list of people who saw a vision of the risen Jesus which ends with "lastly he appeared to me" so everyone inculdinmg the 500 have already seen the Risen Jesus before Paul had.
Well you're both right. 1 Corinthians 15 "5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve: 6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep. 7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles. 8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time." But Paul never saw Jesus while he was alive and Pauls vision was several years after the resurrection and he admits he doesn't know if there was a physical body or just a bright light. Since he is so vague about his own experience, there's even more reason to doubt the experiences of the other people he lists. Did they see a physically resurrected body? How long afterwards? Why should we believe Paul's word on their experiences?
We need to get a real critical scholar on Rogan. Ehrman would be the most obvious choice and I'm sure he'd be down, but personally I would prefer seeing Kipp or Richard C. Miller on
AND he made a video stating he wouldn’t be debating anyone because he’s too busy and focused on his studies and family. Which…….. then why did you debate Carson or anyone in the first place? Or put yourself onto social media the way he has??? I heard of him due to the Carson situation and his response to Ammon Hillman…..
Ah, and here I was hoping the "Hip Youth Pastor" had finally gone the way of the dodo. Wes is one faux-hawk away from being plucked straight from 2005.
Paulogia, I am not sure I am correct on this, but did I understand that the book of Hosea has 50.000 words and you said scholars found 2.600 different words, making the Dead Sea manuscript only 95% accurate against 100% as claimed by Wes? I had to go back and fact check that, and what the scholar appears to be saying is that there are around 2.600 differences that are variances like where the letters are placed, sufixes, modifiers and things like that. It does not seem to say that there are 2.600 different words. Now, I am from Brasil and speak Portuguese. In Portuguese, unlike English, there are many orthography errors we can make, such as missing an accent, a til, a ç, etc. It’s a nightmare and even very well educated would commit a lot of mistakes that are not spelling errors in a handwritten, 50.000 word document in sheepskin or whatever material they used back than. It seems like you strive to be very accurate in you videos, so I thought it would be prudent to point this out. But, maybe ai misunderstood the claim. If so, you could correct me also.
Please check out professor dave explains he has two videos on Billy that saved me from depression I haven't laughed so hard in years. He tears Billy to shreds and correctly labels him a charlatan
@erikhammer153 lacks credibility of what? I didn't think you needed a masters degree at Harvard to call out a grifting charlatan. Are you religious or fan of Billy or both? Trying to figure out if your dislike of Dave is based on bias (which I'm betting on) considering he has terrorized the religious community with truth
So Paul is the only NT author who claimed to have seen the resurrected Jesus. In a vision, not the flesh. And he had never met Jesus before the crucifixion. Oh, yes, *that's* reliable.
He was Saul before he was Paul. Thats the compelling part and it demands a conversation. He hated Christ more than anyone ever has. He wanted Christianity and Christians utterly wiped from the earth. And then something very strange happened to him. And immediately he became Paul and one of the biggest supporters of Christianity who went on the write 3 quarters of the New Testament. This demands careful examination. People on both sides can agree on one thing at least: Saul who became Paul had something sudden, dramatic and very strange happen to him while traveling the Damascus road.
@@jesserochon3103 - somebody knew that a Paul story would sell well. An enemy "seeing" the light, joining the "true" faith. Or - Paul was cunning enough to do so. Or - Paul had a mental episode. Or - magic happened, while ALL the other magical stories of mankind obviously did not happen. fiction, conmen, and mental episodes are proven to exist. "People on both sides can agree on one thing at least: Saul who became Paul had something sudden, dramatic and very strange happen to him while traveling the Damascus road" no agreement here. Something happened. Or somebody SAID that something had happened.
@@jesserochon3103 And we should believe in Jesus because a man 2,000 years ago had a strange experience? No thanks. If Jesus wants to appear to me he should darn well do it, not tell one of his believers to tell me that Saul's experience on the road to Damascus was somehow probative.
I have been PATIENTLY waiting for someone to take me through this DRAMA…. I am in debt to Paulogia for breaking this down so informatively. Well done! So incredibly helpful…
Wait...Rogan likes experts again now? I thought experts were bad. Sigh, do we truly live in a world where Joe freaking Rogan is some kinda kingmaker/breaker? Blech.
I hate how he treated poor Flint Dibble. The guy came on his show, blew his friend pseudoarcheologist out of the water (with even Joe agreeing), and then they tried to catch him out on one or two misquotes, and Joe didn't bother checking anymore, just decided 'Flint was lying', even though the accusation (which turned out wrong) could only account for one or two of his arguments, not the whole slew of debunkings. But it is what it is.
@@beorntwit711 Never call him "poor Flint Dibble". The Dibble doesn't need our pity. Even if all the world condemns him, the Dibble will stand above all as the true Sigma. He shall reign in Valhalla when all us peasants are eating dust in Sheol.
Actually its not. They are simply asking questions, and making proclamations, that many Christians make as well. Its the difference between belief and unbelief.
@@randywagner6961 "difference between belief and unbelief" in other words: accepting 1 kind of magic (f.e. the g0d) and using special pleading to reject other magic (f.e. Zeus) - vs - Thinking rationally.
Thanks for making this video! I suddenly saw this name (Wes) appear in all sorts of comment threads. I don’t want to have to listen to all those debates in full, and I certainly don’t want my clicks to go to Rogan. This is a great way to both catch up and support your channel instead.
But no that’s a different Billy Carson. This one did a TV show called “Black Knight Satellite” and the “Anunnaki”. He also wrote the “compendium of the emerald tablets”, “woke doesn’t mean broke”, and “the epic of humanity”. It seems to me that he is an atheist who also believes in things like hermeticism. I get the hermeticism but from the emerald tablets. I’ve never seen any of the movies or read any of his books so don’t expect to get much from me. Here’s professor Dave talking about him: ruclips.net/video/kfjWxXIPTq8/видео.html Here he is on Joe Rogan: ruclips.net/video/livgMzeO-ZY/видео.html And here is his debate with Wes Huff from Huff’s own channel: ruclips.net/video/F7ngjtT43-4/видео.html And here is one from Dr. Kip Davis: ruclips.net/video/LWMdJEdYRe0/видео.html Hope this helps
Christians are always so excited when they hear an actual expert teach them something new about the Bible. Problem is, apologists are the only “experts” they’re willing to listen to.
Do you listen? You’re on a secular video, discussing a biblical scholar, crying about how Christians get excited about their scholars, but they only listen to them. Why don’t you actually listen to a biblical scholar?
My question is how does "God" allow this! When I was told that "the Bible" was the word of God I believed it. I actually believed that if there was a mistake "God" would change it back. So when I was told that there was more than one version of "God's word". The cognitive dissonance began! Then when my dad quoted the Bible and that no God was to be put before "the true God" it seemed stupid. How could there be ANY "god" who anyone would put before the all knowing, all powerful, and the one that created everything, God? BANG! More dissonance! It went on and on until it became too much. Everyone lied about Santa and at a point they didn't seem any different.
when i was about four i asked myself, what does god need a boat for? and an old man to make it for him? and he's afraid he'll drown the animals? that he created? the book is filled to the brim with plot holes - trees with no fences?
Wow this is really poor reasoning I don't even know where to start. God is not your personal genie to fix things. What version of God's word are you referring to? How is having no God before the true God stupid? There are many gods/false idols whether you believe in the one God or not.
The great irony is that your logic is why Peganism fell to Christianity. You believe God in a pegan way, and that just doesn't work in the face of a sophisticated intellectual approach. Christianity won because great minds could actually believe in it and find greater depth through study.
@BulletRain100 seems more like Pagans are forced to live in reality while Christians were at least smart enough to keep "God" outside of logical reach. Lighting is just natural process ABC and not (insert entity name) Pagans- damn I was wrong. Christians- well uh did you think about who pressed the button for process abc?
Paul is not a witness of the 500, he received that message, read the earlier passages....so it's a 3rd hand account at best with no testimony or names...
Theres no need to read anything but the creed itself since its has at the end of the list lastly he appeared to me. Meaning Paul is the last one to have seen the vision of the risen Jesus.
Sigh, I find myself falling into the same pattern as Joe with people I respect or who I think is smarter than me (could be residual from christianity). I'm slowly learning that just because they are an expert in one field doesn't mean they know everything and can be a "guide". Like, even with someone like Kipp, I still need to be careful. It's almost like fandom in a way. Weird. Thanks for the video!
"People in the ancient world would have just accepted the miracle claims" "There were people that witnessed Jesus who would/ could have fact checked the claims about him" Why would they need to factcheck if no one really questioned the factuality? How is a guy writing about Jesus miracles as some of these Egyptian miracles confirmation of him doing miracles. Is the suggestion that the Egyptian miracles are also true then? ... There are so many unresolvable problems in his statements.
Christians and Christian apologists talk about the Resurrection as such a miraculous singular event, but Jesus wasn't the first person, according to the Bible, to come back to life. Tales of people coming back from the dead weren't that uncommon in the ancient world.
Lazarus, the guy Jesus is recorded as having raised him from the dead days after he died but no evidence he existed, no one paying any attention to the fact a man was literally raised from the dead and in front of witnesses. Seems like a literary device to insinuate that if it could happen once, it could happen again. If you believe a man raised a man from the dead, how much more willing are you to believe that a man who was god raised himself from the dead? The gospels are basically just a series of devices tp prepare the reader to believe what cannot be proven until we get to Hebrews where they say the quiet part out loud about how utterly lacking in substance any concept of faith is, by their own words no less.
THANK GAWD you did a reaction vid!!! I *tried* to watch Joe's interview.. but.. Joe's irresponsibly was stomach turning!!! just watching your reaction now..
Huff also brags of Peter being crucified upside down which is found in the Acts of Peter and none the cannonical protestant or catholic books and happens to include a walking talking cross. Can we get some real scholarship on Huff please. This is getting out of hand with the Huff worship 😅
The walking talking cross is in the Gospel of Peter. The Acts of Peter has a flying wizard, a talking dog, and the resurrection of a herring. It is, as you say, in the AoP that Peter is crucified upside down. For bad marriage counselling. These are the trustworthy documents at the foundation of Christianity.
The story of Peter being crucified upside down always made no sense to me. Like, why would the Romans heed his request? From everything I’ve read about the Romans, they’d probably just say “Yeah, not our problem” and crucify him normally. Heck they’d probably make it a point to crucify him the same way to avoid giving Jesus any reverence.
@@Colddirector Read the story of St. Ignatius, and see what sense that makes. The main academic question is how much the letters that aren't deemed forgeries (less than half) have been tampered with. My question is whether Ignatius existed. Acts 21:27-40 is a bit odd, as well. A riot starts around Paul. The Roman soldiers drag Paul out of the crowd and take him to the commander. And then the commander lets him face the crowd and make a speech. Surely any semi-competent officer would whisk him out of sight rather than risk him stirring up the riot even more.
@@Colddirector NISUS WETTUS: Next. Crucifixion? PRISONER #1: Yes. NISUS: Good. Out of the door. Line on the left. One cross each. Next. Crucifixion? PRISONER #2: Yes. ...
I recently read Celsus's arguments against early Christianity and it's kind of depressing that the same arguments backed by solid logic and reason have been being defeated by madness and superstition for 2000 years.
Alright. I have now officially watched every response video to Wes Huff's appearance on Joe Rogan, and I have concluded that mine is easily the best one. But, this video from @Paulogia is unquestionably the second-best one. Be sure watch it more than once.
Imagine Wes debating someone who actually knows their stuff rather than low hanging fruit like Billy who has been called out by everyone other than the people in his group
@leondonnelly6271 Ehhh.. no.. He was called out on quite a few things by even one of his friends he works with who makes a difference between Sholar Wess and Apologetic Wes... He made quite a few mistakes ( or lies ) when the conversation went passed Billy Carson.. maybe step out of the echochamber and watch the other side
Wow, great video! I had no idea about Wes or Billy or any of this, so I love the context at the beginning explaining the whole situation, but then your breakdown of the conversation is pure gold. Love it, keep it up
It's doubly funny because Carson really only gained traction after Rogan had him on and let him yap for for an hour following the Terrence Howard stuff.
We'd be best off if an army of debate ninjas disguised themselves as his scheduled guests, showed up in the real guests' place and debated Rogan over all the errors and misinformation he's spread across his career, for the rest of his life.
Let’s be honest: Billy’s people are not mentioned in the Bible… and that’s OK, because Orientals aren’t mentioned either… no Eskimos or Amerindians, or anyone else but Caucasians 😮 Noah landed in the Caucass mountains ( Ararat/ Aratta) if it were true: everyone would be caucasians with the same genetics and haplogroups and blood type… but that’s not so, now is it..? That’s reason number 2741 that we know that it is false… any good apologist destroyer could easily take Huff down with ease… like Paulogia, Gnostic Informant, mythVision, Hitchens ( RIP) and hundreds of others… Wes is an apologetic and not really that good… Noah’s story was taken directly from a earlier Sumerian tale of a local flood, Moses birth narrative was taken directly from the birth narrative of Sargon of Akkad, the earliest forms never say he parted the Red Sea, it says Yam Suph, which is the sea of Reeds, but that’s not as exciting, now is it…? 😮 did the Exodus ever happen..? We have no proof that any of it ever happened, now do we…? Did the Jesus narrative ever happen…? Many have shown that there is no evidence if any of it… and even the gospels are shown to be forgeries that claim one of his disciples wrote this, but there is no evidence and reason to believe that it definitely was not… and there are many ruining discrepancies and contradictions in those same gospels… which one was true or correct, if any..? Did the undead walk the earth after his resurrection..? Did anyone even refer to it… ? Good response Paulogia… 😊
Huff also said, "The Great Isaiah Scroll represents word for word The Masoratic Text (MT). The notion that the Great Isaiah Scroll represents word for word The Masoratic Text (MT) and that this shocks Scholars is 100% false ~ that's not true at all. ... (Dan McClellan)
this is the first time I've heard of Mark Minard, and...hoo buddy. bless his heart. how on earth does this guy have a gigantic audience? watching the original debate was incredibly painful, despite the correct historical positions Huff asserts.
@@29memyselfandi See Wes counter video from Mythvision's comments. He very much does. That is pre JRE. You can bet 80% of them didn't even watch it as they called Carson supporters.
@@njspencer79 ok, write that out again and this time pay attention to your punctuation and finish off your sentences as I’ve genuinely no idea what you’re telling me.
I can’t think of anything I would enjoy more than a Paulogia Huff debate. it’s crazy that he got so elevated by just taking down a grifter who was telling lies.
When speaking as a historian you shouldn't even claim that Jesus "objectively lived". Was there a guy in the first century named -Jesus- -Josh- Yeshua? Sure, he *probably* existed, but that's the best you can say as a serious scholar, when all the near-contemporary extra-biblical references to the man are either confirmed later forgeries or just reports on Christian beliefs by people who don't even claim to have ever seen a historical Jesus.
In my early days of deconstructing the lies beat into me as a boy I came across this quote from Aron Ra and to this day I have found nothing else that quite encapsulates the entire issue. And thank you y'all for producing such great material for those of us searching for truth. "If there really was one true god, it should be a singular composite of every religion’s gods, an uber-galactic super-genius, and the ultimate entity of the entire cosmos. If a being of that magnitude ever wrote a book, then there would only be one such document; one book of God. It would be dominant everywhere in the world with no predecessors or parallels or alternatives in any language, because mere human authors couldn’t possibly compete with it. And you wouldn’t need faith to believe it, because it would be consistent with all evidence and demonstrably true, revealing profound morality and wisdom far beyond contemporary human capacity. It would invariably inspire a unity of common belief for every reader. If God wrote it, we could expect no less. But what we see instead is the very opposite of that." ~Aron Ra
Well, when you back drop an expert with the lowest of the low hanging fruit, they will look like a super genius. Those who are subject to confirmation bias are easily impressed by those who confirm their bias, while claiming to be an expert especially in the cult of xtianity.
24:40 "So far Ive heard no Christian call him out for" - then you weren't paying attention. Immediately after the Rogan episode aired there were Christians publicly correcting Wes's mistakes and he HIMSELF went on other people's channels and admitted his mistakes and even explained why he goofed up in the moment. He's human for goodness sakes. Recently he posted a video "debunking" himself. It is just obvious that Wes never intended to mislead Rogan or his audience.
Welcome to Paulogia, where a Canadian looks at the claims of other Canadians.
Canadians make claims?
This was like an ALL CANADIAN episode!
Politely!
Canadians never do that.
@@robinharwood5044yes we do. Sorry.
Not even 3 minutes into this and I'm already asking myself why anyone would consider trouncing Billy Carson in a debate as a note worthy feat? This is like watching children arguing over whether or not Batman could beat Superman.
They have not much of anything else to cheer up otherwise.
Batman, for sure.
Clearly Tarzan would win, because Batman and Superman are make-believe.
I'm surprised. I saw 3 replies under this and thought that the war had begun, but only one may be a serious shot ( I think he was just doing it for the fun ), one comedic tangential reply ( nice ) and one not doing any 'warcraft' at all. Impressive. ;-)
Superman would be able to follow Jesus closer than any Christian I know.
We are skeptics. Carson is a conspiracy theorist. Apologists are bullshitters. We’re not like Carson, and being better than Carson doesn’t vault you up to a level any higher than bare minimum. It's really annoying how owning Carson is being seen as owning the skeptical/critical community as well. None of that is Wes's fault, he's fine. Any atheist Biblical scholar could have put Carson in his place as well.
Oh hey look Planet Peterson. Loved your Kent Hovind thesis video.
@planetpeterson2824 When I used to go to church, they taught the devil mixed some truths with lies to make them believable. Sounds like every apologist I've heard and like the church I attended.
lol - Also love your content
Well said
💯🖖🏾
It is about as easy to impress Joe Rogan as it is to amaze a two year old.
Truth 💣
You know he's just acting right?
@@cygnustsp No, I really think he's taken one too many boots to the head.
True, although I don't think that takes away from the insight and expertise of an accredited scholar like Wes when it comes to his own field.
@@cygnustsp Joe acting? Not on his best day could he act that well.........he's being legit here.
the best apologist is like being the best flat earther
way I like to put it is that apologists are closer to lawyers than scholars - they may be educated and they may sound scholarly, but they're ultimately there to push a case, and they aren't interested in hearing anyone else's beyond purely to refute it.
@@ColddirectorExactly the analogy I use.
Apologists are defense attorneys. Getting at the facts is not part of the job.
@@kentstallard6512 I was going to add a bit equating guys like Frank Turek to Saul Goodman, but while he is sleazy Turek isn’t nearly that clever.
@@Colddirector LOL
...or nearly as funny.
Defeating Billy Carson in a debate is not the flex they seem to think it is.
Ya I know and that is why Wes would school this fool as well, when your entire 'argument' against his facts is. "Its not enough proof" your not going to win any argument with an honest audience.
The way they all circled the wagons for the tiniest W is so cringe 😄
The real flex was convincing him to debate.
It was never a flex, bro literally just spoke to the man and his claims just fell like a house of cards. The people watching made it a big deal, Wes is just riding the wave.
No one was happy because it was a flex… any of the most minimally informed Christian could’ve corrected Billy Carson. We were happy someone got the opportunity to do so one on one. Simple as that.
@18:08 I think you are giving Wes too much credit, @Paulogia. In the first two hours of his discussion he messed up on the Enuma Elish, Genesis 1 and Canaanite literature. This, to go along with most egregiously of all, his absolutely botched discussion of the most famous of the Dead Sea Scrolls, 1QIsaiah-a.
I definitely get to the Isaiah thing, all thanks to you.
Whoaaa!! Dr Kipp in the chat! I’d love to see you and Dr Josh on JRE next. Y’all work so well together.
Thank you for your child sacrifice video. It was fascinating.
Where’s your shoes
@Paulogia Also, when Wes talks about the fastidiousness of Jewish scribes when compared to Christian scribes, he is projecting backwards onto the earlier periods of manuscript production what was true predominantly at a much later time. From the Dead Sea Scrolls we see pretty clearly that Jewish scribal traditions were NOT fixed prior to the destruction of Herod's temple at the earliest, and with these, neither were the texts themselves. Everything is extremely fluid prior to the second century CE.
@@Paulogia Didn't that video cause you to reconvert to Christianity?
Even if every version of every story in the bible survived intact and unchanged, it still doesn't prove that a single thing in those stories was true. For all of Huffs claims to be a historian, he is a pretty typical Presup.
That's why they make a difference between "christian" scholarship and actual scholars
I was thinking this exact same thought while listening to that segment. An exact copy would be only demonstrative of someone’s ability to preserve an ancient text for a long time not the text’s veridity.
Why not Why can't it be considered eyewitness accounts
I'm sorry kip is nonsense he spouts the same piecing of ot stuff that's been done for 50 years. He brought nothing new abd hasn't revealed much
@@RunesandReapersWhy can't they be considered eye witness accounts? Claiming to be an eye witness, does not mean you are. Being an eye witness does not mean you remember it correctly. How can we ever know what is correct in the Bible without presupposing. If we had real evidence, we wouldn't even be discussing it.
Joe Rogan is impressed by experts? Wow. But apparently not when they study science and medicine
In Joe's world, an expert is someone who claims to have figured out why the experts are wrong.
He's only impressed by fake science. Coz real science is haaaard.
he sells the g0d on the biggest g0d market ever seen. This will change the very moment the U.S. fanbase of medicine outgrows the djeezus fanbase.
This commenter sounds jabbed and boosted.
@@BigDaddyDru Not boosted enough. They only have 32 thumbs up.
"I am not an expert in many things"...Finally Joe Rogan admitting something true...
But he did say comedy 😂😂😂😂
@@paulcrichton8530 That's the most audacious and unsupported claim made in this video. Joe's the anti-comedian.
I'd believe he's an expert in the theory of hand to hand combat, possibly steroids and gathering an audience. Beyond that...
He Rogan hater. Has he ever claimed otherwise? He is a Podcast host... Oh yeah.. the biggest one in the world. He has to find people for 5 days a week 3 hours a day. He makes it look easy, but most people are not capable of doing what we does, like 99.9999% of people. I love how people all think they are better than people who do what they do better than anyone on the planet.
Rogan often says he’s not that smart but it’s purely a defense in case he gets called out for being wrong. But someone who truly knew they were uninformed wouldn’t pretend to know things they don’t. And with Rogan, he’s worse than uninformed, he’s misinformed. It’s better to know nothing than to be wrong.
I despise the “if it wasn’t true, people would have refuted it!” Excuse me? Are you seriously saying false information NEVER propagates? People legitimately believe school bathrooms have litter boxes!!
Joe Rogan himself propagates misinformation on his show all the time, so it's just...very painfully unaware.
Almost like we have a word for that, what was it again. Oh, right, propaganda. Because it is misinformation propagating an agenda.
Not at that time period. The story of the risen king who would later bring the Roman Empire to its knees completely opposed the Empire. They would have done everything within their power to destroy such claim by showing jesus’s body. The Roman Empire was under authoritarian rule so looking at history from a liberal view is stupid
You completely lack historical context
AFAIK, nothing untrue has ever been widely believed
@@hammerotongo4677 That’s not the argument. You’re creating a straw man
I have never heard a convincing rebuttal to what I'm about to say: Christian apologetics is an agenda driven project that involves defending Christianity as the primary goal. That is not the same thing as being a truth seeker. Plain and simple.
Biblical skepticism is an agenda driven project that involves rebutting Biblical faith as the primary goal. That is not the same thing as being a truth seeker. Plain and simple.
Thank you. Glad someone understands the difference and sees the agenda for what it is.
@JS-fu8iu Are you seriously suggesting that skepticism (suspending judgement when evaluating a claim) is the same as dogmatically promoting a religion?
@@JS-fu8iu History says otherwise. Your truth is based on belief, not what is. Truth is what has been, and what actually is. Seeking truth involves searching all cultures, stories, and meanings. Truth under your context is just what you are commanded to believe to know. That is not seeking truth, nor wisdom.
Parroting is not a rebuttal.
I mean to be honest someone who is religious that also goes with other religious people who work in the science field. My daughter is Jewish and he’s gay and he works as a I should just say daughter because I don’t know what the hell kind of biology he works on Maybe mental health anyway he is my doctor and my mother’s doctor. Let’s be fair. This is normal.
"confidence is not competency" was the biggest self own.
I pictured him elbowing Rogan after saying this
Y’all Mad Jesus Is King 👑 Amen.
@natarianimationsandmore not my king
@natarianimationsandmore
You are just mad because there is no evidence for the resurrection or any of the miracles in your magic book.😂
@natarianimationsandmoreKing of what? The dude got wrecked lmao
All the combined experts on ancient manuscripts can not prove a single claim of the supernatural
as a non-native speaker of English, I love when they mention the "dead sea squirrels"
sure, I hear the actual word they say (scrolls), but my brain keeps playing.
We have cameras on every street corner. We would have caught something by now.
And not a single actual person has ever been proven to exist ....not one? We can find 5000 year old egyptian mummies, evidence of asian civilations dating back 10,000 years. And proof of neanderthals creating tools. But this book rewritten a hundred times is proof of a bronze age god . These people need to up their meds to keep the delusions at bay.
So when an atheist is caught lying, all sides tell them off. (which is good)
If an apologist is caught lying most religious people on their side ignore it. Even if they admit to intentionally using a lower standard of evidence for their wanted positions than the opposition... Curious.
Nobody tells them off.lol if not Billy would have been outed by a nonbeliever. Even scientist and so on were agreeing with him lol
@@jonnymars7164 I was originally against Billy's claims, and then after listening to him and Wes argue (and researching their claims) it's now obvious that Wes is just a clout chasing liar (he was wrong about 3 of his 4 points towards Carson, and the 4th where he was right was Billy making an easy to make mistake).
@@jonnymars7164 Billy HAS been outed by a non believer. That believers also later outed Billy and Wes is being talked about doesn't make Wes the only one that outed Billy.
This is not an unusual thing. Experts start doing apologetics. They start off as scholars, giving specific facts, not speaking in hyperbole, focusing on accuracy... then they find out how much support and money they get as apologists and how little work they really need to do (subconsciously sometimes) and they stop putting in effort and just regurgitate the same simple nonsense as all the other ones.
I think Wes is the opposite though. He started as an apologist and he is becoming a scholar. It sounds like he's responding to some of the criticism of his statements with an interest to become more informed, and that's laudable.
Huh? 😂🎉
@@Essex626 Not in the least, Wes is an apologist. He attended school. But he was still an apologist.
I also think they get so far into their beliefs that defending their beliefs at any cost gets substituted for genuinely trying to search for truth(s).
@Essex626 He blatantly lied. Can we please have a standard?
Now Joe Rogan needs to get Kipp Davis on his podcast.
Or Aron Ra.
or Deconversion Zone
As if he'd have the guts.
I would be happy with Joshua bowen or even Dale allison. But yes Kip would be great.
@@BroJo420CafeJustin from Deconstruction Zone?
Thank you for doing this video Paul. Wes has become their new Messiah.
Look at you celebrating anything that may be against Wes. Stop being jealous because of Wes meteoric rise: you are doing the exact thing you cried Christian’s were doing online. You are even more biased and stuck in your conclusions than most Christian’s online
@@BakiVSKengan
Should apologists be challenged?
@@EvilXtianity my comment has nothing to do with who should or shouldn’t be challenged: if you want to address my comment specifically then do so if not reply to someone else. I am specifically focused on the hypocrisy and cheerleading of Mythvision, something they themselves complained that others were doing
@@BakiVSKengan
_"I am specifically focused on the hypocrisy and cheerleading of Mythvision..."_
Provide an example of what offended you.
I should note that both channels are on my channel's recommended list.
@ when did I mention being offended ? Lol. Twice you have missed the mark. I have directly told you what I am focusing on and you still are making it about something else. I did not say mythvision offended me at all. Is this Derek’s alt?
I will never stop laughing at "the Sinai bible"😂
I think you're misspelling it. I think when Billy says that, he's saying "Sci-Nye" Bible. I can only guess at the backstory going on there, and the sad thing is that nothing I invent right now will likely be as mad as what Billy actually thinks.
That’s actually the common name for Codex Sinaiticus.
@@xmillion1704 Weird. I have never heard it called that. Codex Aleph sure. Not saying it isn't in 25 years always heard Sinaiticus w/ or w/o Codex or Aleph.
@@njspencer79 It’s not my expertise. I’m just going by multiple sources that came right up from a quick search.
@@xmillion1704 Probably from Carson and similar. I studied the academic stuff back 20 years ago on it. It is entirely possibly some call it that. Wes is right it pretty much says what most modern Bible's read. Of course there are textual variants etc. AFAIK nothing that would change any content of the NT itself. I say this as a former Christian.
Imagine if JRE got Bart Ehrman or Dan McClellan on his show.
Is hard for him not to get people that are not confident charlatans making outrageous claims with confidence...it is not profitable
@mendez704 unfortunately
JRE's target demographic... christian nationalist & jordan peterson fanboys.....wouldn't watch.
@thedude0000 sadly
Maklelan would be good.
Never heard of Huff. Will edit this comment after watching.
Edit: Huff easily cleared the low bar of Carson, a self-declared expert with Terence Howard syndrome. However, he followed it up with the usual baffling credulity all used-god salesmen display with regard to the Gospels. How terribly...unsurprising. But I guess that's the difference between apologists and scholars.
And Rogan, being Rogan, just Roganned in response. I also strongly doubt his credentials as an expert in comedy. Being laughable isn't the same as being funny.
...likewise...
Apologists have to set the bar on the floor and even then most of them can't clear it
Rogan opened another worm hole door by having Wes on. There’s people wanting Ammon Hillman on there now, along with a laundry list of people.
Rogan literally just has conversations with people on his podcast. I dont know why anyone has an issue with that. He doesn't claim to be an expert in any of these things. He just chats with people. You can form your own opinions.
@@JCTheSniper15 exactly 💯. These experts are unbearably pretentious 😂😂
I'm going to make the prediction that Wes just spouts the same old worn out, easily refuted, word salad apologetics that have been debunked for decades.
No way! Your prediction came true! Can you please give me the numbers for the next Powerball?
Yup. Honestly him and Billy was a tie, which is embarrassing
You were wrong
Even Paulogia have Wes credit
@@BakiVSKenganHow?
Bro Joegan being impressed by an apologist debunking a complete lunatic is not surprising. Now get Bart Ehrman on and watch him debunk the apologist.
Bbbbbbbbut he reads Greek & Hebrew translations, not the authentic original English version - the revised NIV. That KJV has too many funny words.
I think Justin from 'Deconstruction Zone would wipe the floor with this guy.
I anyone hasn't heard of him you should check him out, he has an encyclopedic memory on all things Christian.
Yes. Get bart. Send out the bart signal he needs a sitdown on that podcast asap
Rogan has Sam Harris on at least twice, Dawkins and Krauss. He has one Christian apologist on and people lose their minds.
Bart Ehrman will never be invited on this JRE. If he is, he’ll get the same treatment Flint Dibble got after he crushed Graham Hancock in their “debate” on JRE.
Rogan used to be a bit more fair - but those days are long gone.
I'm starting to think you could do the "I got your nose!" trick with your thumb and fingers on Joe Rogan, and he would legitimately believe you did indeed get his nose.
"Whoa, you got my nose? Thats like, so totally interesting. How does that even work??"
I can respect that he realizes he's not that bright. I cannot respect however that he shows no introspection or self awareness for that fact. He keeps happily bringing on propagandists to spew bs with zero pushback, and doesn't try to make that not happen.
He brings on all sorts of people. Seems to me you're upset that sometimes he brings on people you dislike.
How can a debate between two conspiracy theorists promote one of them to stardom?
Incredibly low bar of theists for “stardom”?
Huff is no conspiracy theorist, apologetic sure, but not the former.
@@riseofdarkleelathe bar is literally on the floor
Because the other one already had 1.4 million subs. The apologists see it as David vs Goliath. I would be worried if i was Wes’s adultery baby…
@@TheUnseenPath "conspiracy theorist" is just a feather and tar insult used by people who want an excuse to be bigoted so don't expect an apt description when it's used
Fantastic rundown of this recent phenomenon. Thank you!
So two guys that are both wrong have a debate over who is wronger????
@blairhitchings5218 and they both lost, but to some losing is a win i guess
REPENT! JESUS CHRIST IS REAL AND IS COMING BACK!!!
It's a wrong off!
@natarianimationsandmore Yall have been screeching that nonsense for 2000 years, no he's not!
And Rogan's fans wonder why people say he's just a follower and unquestioning rube.
Thank you Paul for taking a stab at this one. I’ve been frustrated by all the apologists and regular Joe Christian’s losing their minds over this guy who isn’t saying a single thing different than has ever been said before.
Why would you expect something new when the old arguments haven't been debunked?
@@mikewilliams6025 It's because Joe Rogan is hard to impress, so if you get him to say wow during an interview then it means you had a rock solid argument.
@@paulthompson9668 Yall are deluded.
Because he’s just another Canadian like Drake 😂
@@mikewilliams6025all the old arguments have been debunked lol
I feel sorry for all the christians getting so excited for this. I'm a former seminary student turned quasi atheist and I watched the interview and genuinely didn't think there was anything major that was said. Just same old rhetoric just on a larger platform. I suppose if it makes them happy then that's good but I just feel sorry that they think it's a win. I hope they aren't too disappointed in the end.
It's literally right wing propaganda base building. This nation is going down the shitter. Carl Sagan is spinning in his grave.
REPENT OF YOUR SINS AND BELIEVE THAT JESUS CHRIST IS LORD! HE IS REAL AND IS COMING BACK!! DO NOT TAKE HIS MERCY FOR GRANTED.
Yeah, in my experience they're mostly cheerleaders looking for a team captain, not actually interested in figuring out the consequences of the beliefs they espouse.
E.g. GodLogic claims Deuteronomy 36:2 (iirc) proves Trinity. Why? God is mentioned as father of Israelites. Not God as The Father. Just... a father of a nation. And thats sufficient evidence.
They mostly just accept whatever is offered as an answer, regardless of if it makes sense, and you're a great apologist if you can come up with any answer.
Like our buddy above, its a deeply emotional topic for them.
@natarianimationsandmore Put down the bullhorn and leave the innocent passersby alone, pal.
@natarian I was going to keep being an atheist but since you used ALL CAPS I am now persuaded and will follow your admonishment to believe in Jesus. (Because belief is simply an act of will, right? And I’d be silly not to bow to someone yelling existential threats in a YT comments section)
I would argue that it fell apart way before the first 2 hours. But ok fair enough.
On which specific points?
@@CaptainScarfish P52 for one.
@@VeridicusMaximus What did he say that was inaccurate about P52? There is some debate on the dating. Some say 95 one end and others saying 175. General accepted dating is generally 100-150. Dating this stuff is tricky w/o destroying parts of it. One mistake what is truth according to wikipedia (I know I know) and others is not on the extant part of the MSS. I am curious if I missed something.
@@njspencer79 Finding this mss in Egypt does not push the autograph to the lifetime of the disciples and even if we grant a 125 CE dating 24 years is plenty of time for it to get to Egypt - even if it was written in Ephesus! Also, the presumed origin of the gospel, in Ephesus, is based on Roberts (c.1935) work and people just run with it like Wes did. We don't know who the author was or where the autograph was written! It is also interesting that John's Logos theology is an adaptation from Philo's middle platonic ideas - who was also from Egypt. So as usual apologists exaggerate and BS their way to a conclusion that they want to be in line with their dogmas!
@@VeridicusMaximus Ok I missed his assertion on the lifetime of the apostle John. I had always heard back when I was a Christian within a generation or two of John assuming he lived to about 99-101 AD. I don't dispute your statements on that. I have it on a tie despite not being a Christian. I think its a cool piece of historic writing. Not that I think its God breathed.
Early by historic standards and well preserved does not make the NT 100% non-fiction IMO.
Thanks for your RUclips Channel!
I really enjoy watching your content.
To Peace, Health, Happiness, & Prosperous New Year!
🥳🎉🥂✨💰✨🥂🥳🎉✨
apparently apocrypha becomes canon if it's to favor apologetics - and if canon quotes apocrypha (jude/enoch) then canon just means whatever favors the argument
AndrENOCHrome
I disagree with your statement that Paul is our only eyewitness... Paul never met the living Jesus. He is not an eyewitness. The author of Acts claims that Paul had a vision of Jesus several years after Jesus died. And the people with Paul claimed they did not see Jesus. It's not very trustworthy.
I am not an expert in the field but I think you are miscontruing it all. What they are saying is that Paul is the only person who claims to have seen the risen Jesus. As in, Paul is the only person who is known to have written a book making the claim of haven seen the risen Jesus. No other disciple/apostle personally made such claim.
The other "eyewitnesses" are just claims of claims.
Wait, I don't wanna chase around: doesn't Paul in his own epistles (like 2nd Corinthians iirc) say Jesus in a vision told him to go preach?
I agree that doesn't make him an eyewitness in any meaningful sense; but its not just Acts claiming he had a vision. As far as we can tell, Paul himself often used his vision as source of credibility among Christians.
No?
@@beorntwit711 yes, Paul wrote this. He was the only person with a direct claim of seeing the risen Jesus. Others are just claims of claims.
@@kosisokingonyekweli4037. Seeing a RISEN JESUS is NOT the same thing as a vision.
I know this is about Wes but I love when grifters like Billy hit the lime light and fall apart like a stack of cards
Same here. At least Apologetics is trying to make sense of their God.
Billy lies to make money
@@mactallica9293 loads of apologists are multi millionaires so why do you give them a pass.........
Wes, doesn't understand, we think Billy is a joke also! Where's the proof of the supernatural? We're still waiting
Where’s the proof of the supernatural?"
The proof is in the math and science! Let me break it down for you:
1. The Universe Is Fine-Tuned
The universe didn’t just happen to support life-it’s balanced on a razor’s edge. For example:
Strength of Gravity: If it were off by even 1 part in 10⁶⁰, stars couldn’t form.
Cosmological Constant (expansion of the universe): It’s fine-tuned to 1 part in 10¹²⁰!
These odds are so astronomically low that scientists have compared it to a tornado assembling a Boeing 747 out of a junkyard.
2. This Isn’t “God of the Gaps”
Some skeptics dismiss this as a "God of the Gaps" argument, saying, “You’re just using God to explain what we don’t know.” But here’s the difference:
God of the Gaps says, “We can’t explain X, so God did it.”
Fine-Tuning asks, “Why does this incredibly precise, life-permitting order exist at all?”
It’s not about what we don’t know-it’s about what we DO KNOW: The universe operates under insanely precise constants that demand an explanation.
3. Consciousness: Mind from No Mind?
Atoms and molecules are mindless, yet we have thoughts, emotions, the ability to make decisions and self-awareness. How can something without a mind create beings with minds?
Science can explain how neurons fire, but it can’t explain why we’re conscious at all. This points to a reality beyond materialism-a Creator who is both intelligent and personal.
4 The Odds Are Rigged
Some argue, “Improbable doesn’t mean impossible.” True. But let’s be real:
--> If someone wins the lottery once, it’s luck.
--> If they win it 300 times in a row, it’s obviously not chance-it’s rigged.
--> Fine-tuning and consciousness aren’t just lucky-they’re like winning the universal lottery hundreds of times over.
Conclusion: The evidence isn’t about plugging gaps in our knowledge; it’s about confronting the overwhelming improbability of random chance. The natural world doesn’t just suggest order-it screams design. Maybe it’s time to listen.
I never heard of Billy Carson.
The existence of the universe, life, consciousness...
Who's we?
@@xaviervelascosuarezthose are all natural phenomena, with evidence on how they work and how they came to be. None of that points to anything supernatural or magic
Demands to 'Debate Wes Huff!' have recently started appearing in the comment sections on many atheist RUclipsrs' videos. It's telling that one performance against an incoherent conspiracy theorist is enough for many Christians to hail Huff as a giant of apologetics.
It reminds me of how CS Lewis is top of the pile in apologetics almost purely because he’s actually a good writer.
Let this dude debate Matt Dilahaunty and see how well he does.
"Confidence does not replace competence"
If only that was consistently taken seriously in Christian apologetics.
Callout to MrDeity, with his recent CONvert series.
considering that MrDeity has been call out by other atheists like Tim O Neil a misrepresenting sources and taking anti-theist truism at face value without citing actual scholars of religion, I don't think he is an honest figure on this space
Paul writes that 500 people saw the resurrection but critically HE WASN'T ONE OF THEM
Yep Paul letter gives a list of people who saw a vision of the risen Jesus which ends with "lastly he appeared to me" so everyone inculdinmg the 500 have already seen the Risen Jesus before Paul had.
@mattm8870 we don't have any names of the 500. We have no idea who they are.
Well you're both right. 1 Corinthians 15 "5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.
7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.
8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time."
But Paul never saw Jesus while he was alive and Pauls vision was several years after the resurrection and he admits he doesn't know if there was a physical body or just a bright light. Since he is so vague about his own experience, there's even more reason to doubt the experiences of the other people he lists. Did they see a physically resurrected body? How long afterwards? Why should we believe Paul's word on their experiences?
@@ninjaaitools I know that I was agreeing with the OP that Paul not claiming to be one of 500.
We need to get a real critical scholar on Rogan. Ehrman would be the most obvious choice and I'm sure he'd be down, but personally I would prefer seeing Kipp or Richard C. Miller on
i would honestly like to see him grapple with Richard Carrier, who would probably tie Wes in knots.
@@Sulleymon21 Carrier has his own problems
@@soarel325 but would destroy Huff in any debate
So, long story short, this guy is impressive to people that don’t know anything about the Bible and how it was constructed.
As is tradition.
So the usual
AND he made a video stating he wouldn’t be debating anyone because he’s too busy and focused on his studies and family. Which…….. then why did you debate Carson or anyone in the first place? Or put yourself onto social media the way he has??? I heard of him due to the Carson situation and his response to Ammon Hillman…..
REPENT! JESUS CHRIST IS NOT MOCKED. HE IS COMING BACK AND HE WILL JUDGE EVERY LIVING SND DEAL SOUL!! REPENT!!!
Paulogia is a novice, but you're impressed with him.
Ah, and here I was hoping the "Hip Youth Pastor" had finally gone the way of the dodo. Wes is one faux-hawk away from being plucked straight from 2005.
Canada's always behind about 20 years 😂
2005? I was there for the first wave in 1975, they even had acoustic guitars
Paulogia, I am not sure I am correct on this, but did I understand that the book of Hosea has 50.000 words and you said scholars found 2.600 different words, making the Dead Sea manuscript only 95% accurate against 100% as claimed by Wes? I had to go back and fact check that, and what the scholar appears to be saying is that there are around 2.600 differences that are variances like where the letters are placed, sufixes, modifiers and things like that. It does not seem to say that there are 2.600 different words. Now, I am from Brasil and speak Portuguese. In Portuguese, unlike English, there are many orthography errors we can make, such as missing an accent, a til, a ç, etc. It’s a nightmare and even very well educated would commit a lot of mistakes that are not spelling errors in a handwritten, 50.000 word document in sheepskin or whatever material they used back than. It seems like you strive to be very accurate in you videos, so I thought it would be prudent to point this out. But, maybe ai misunderstood the claim. If so, you could correct me also.
Professor dave also annihilated Billy with verbal slaps unlike anything I've ever seen
Please check out professor dave explains he has two videos on Billy that saved me from depression I haven't laughed so hard in years. He tears Billy to shreds and correctly labels him a charlatan
@@SkyKing-e4u Hmmmm, thanks! I'll check it out.
Professor Dave lacks credibility and is not impressive.
@erikhammer153 lacks credibility of what? I didn't think you needed a masters degree at Harvard to call out a grifting charlatan. Are you religious or fan of Billy or both? Trying to figure out if your dislike of Dave is based on bias (which I'm betting on) considering he has terrorized the religious community with truth
@@SkyKing-e4uyou said a whole lot of nothin.
Dave is not credible by a long shot
So Paul is the only NT author who claimed to have seen the resurrected Jesus. In a vision, not the flesh. And he had never met Jesus before the crucifixion. Oh, yes, *that's* reliable.
He was Saul before he was Paul. Thats the compelling part and it demands a conversation. He hated Christ more than anyone ever has. He wanted Christianity and Christians utterly wiped from the earth. And then something very strange happened to him. And immediately he became Paul and one of the biggest supporters of Christianity who went on the write 3 quarters of the New Testament. This demands careful examination. People on both sides can agree on one thing at least: Saul who became Paul had something sudden, dramatic and very strange happen to him while traveling the Damascus road.
@@jesserochon3103Amen. REPENT OF YOUR SINS AND BELIEVE THAT JESUS CHRIST IS LORD!!!
@@jesserochon3103 - somebody knew that a Paul story would sell well. An enemy "seeing" the light, joining the "true" faith. Or
- Paul was cunning enough to do so. Or
- Paul had a mental episode. Or
- magic happened, while ALL the other magical stories of mankind obviously did not happen.
fiction, conmen, and mental episodes are proven to exist.
"People on both sides can agree on one thing at least: Saul who became Paul had something sudden, dramatic and very strange happen to him while traveling the Damascus road"
no agreement here. Something happened. Or somebody SAID that something had happened.
@@jesserochon3103 And we should believe in Jesus because a man 2,000 years ago had a strange experience? No thanks. If Jesus wants to appear to me he should darn well do it, not tell one of his believers to tell me that Saul's experience on the road to Damascus was somehow probative.
I have been PATIENTLY waiting for someone to take me through this DRAMA…. I am in debt to Paulogia for breaking this down so informatively. Well done! So incredibly helpful…
SOLID GOLD entertainment… this is amazing stuff!
REPENT OF YOUR SINS AND BELIEVE THAT JESUS CHRIST IS LORD! E IS REAL AND IS COMING BACK!!
@natarianimationsandmore reported for spam
@natarianimationsandmore"soon“
Wait...Rogan likes experts again now?
I thought experts were bad.
Sigh, do we truly live in a world where Joe freaking Rogan is some kinda kingmaker/breaker?
Blech.
I hate how he treated poor Flint Dibble. The guy came on his show, blew his friend pseudoarcheologist out of the water (with even Joe agreeing), and then they tried to catch him out on one or two misquotes, and Joe didn't bother checking anymore, just decided 'Flint was lying', even though the accusation (which turned out wrong) could only account for one or two of his arguments, not the whole slew of debunkings.
But it is what it is.
@@beorntwit711 Never call him "poor Flint Dibble". The Dibble doesn't need our pity. Even if all the world condemns him, the Dibble will stand above all as the true Sigma. He shall reign in Valhalla when all us peasants are eating dust in Sheol.
Wes forges old pieces of ancient manuscripts. What’s the historical benefit of creating copies of historical documents?? 🤷🏽♀️
This channel is so, so good at deconstructing Christian apologetics. Glad you interacted with this discussion.
Actually its not. They are simply asking questions, and making proclamations, that many Christians make as well. Its the difference between belief and unbelief.
@@randywagner6961 "difference between belief and unbelief"
in other words: accepting 1 kind of magic (f.e. the g0d) and using special pleading to reject other magic (f.e. Zeus) - vs - Thinking rationally.
@@istvansipos9940 I see how people see it that way.
Thanks for making this video! I suddenly saw this name (Wes) appear in all sorts of comment threads.
I don’t want to have to listen to all those debates in full, and I certainly don’t want my clicks to go to Rogan. This is a great way to both catch up and support your channel instead.
Thanks!
...who is Billy Carson -- and Why am I supposed to know him..?
American actor/musician. Very popular in Finland. Wrote Hyvät Herrat. Oooo. Apparently he worked on the Yle series Hymyhuulet.
Terrence Howard
But no that’s a different Billy Carson. This one did a TV show called “Black Knight Satellite” and the “Anunnaki”. He also wrote the “compendium of the emerald tablets”, “woke doesn’t mean broke”, and “the epic of humanity”. It seems to me that he is an atheist who also believes in things like hermeticism. I get the hermeticism but from the emerald tablets. I’ve never seen any of the movies or read any of his books so don’t expect to get much from me. Here’s professor Dave talking about him: ruclips.net/video/kfjWxXIPTq8/видео.html
Here he is on Joe Rogan:
ruclips.net/video/livgMzeO-ZY/видео.html
And here is his debate with Wes Huff from Huff’s own channel:
ruclips.net/video/F7ngjtT43-4/видео.html
And here is one from Dr. Kip Davis:
ruclips.net/video/LWMdJEdYRe0/видео.html
Hope this helps
@@AlexanderEllis-x7v Popular talk show host since the 1960s.
@@paulthompson9668 I didn’t know Johnny Carson’s middle name was William. You learn something everyday. Thanks a bunch kind stranger.
I could make Carson look stupid.. They’re acting as if that’s a big chore.
Christians are always so excited when they hear an actual expert teach them something new about the Bible. Problem is, apologists are the only “experts” they’re willing to listen to.
Do you listen? You’re on a secular video, discussing a biblical scholar, crying about how Christians get excited about their scholars, but they only listen to them. Why don’t you actually listen to a biblical scholar?
And Billy is not an atheist either he’s a Deist.. this shows that some apologists don’t really understand the difference 🙄
Wes is like a christian that got into history scholarship only to justify his faith and has become an apologic.
Lol Okay
My question is how does "God" allow this! When I was told that "the Bible" was the word of God I believed it. I actually believed that if there was a mistake "God" would change it back. So when I was told that there was more than one version of "God's word". The cognitive dissonance began! Then when my dad quoted the Bible and that no God was to be put before "the true God" it seemed stupid. How could there be ANY "god" who anyone would put before the all knowing, all powerful, and the one that created everything, God?
BANG! More dissonance! It went on and on until it became too much. Everyone lied about Santa and at a point they didn't seem any different.
when i was about four i asked myself, what does god need a boat for? and an old man to make it for him? and he's afraid he'll drown the animals? that he created? the book is filled to the brim with plot holes - trees with no fences?
Wow this is really poor reasoning I don't even know where to start. God is not your personal genie to fix things. What version of God's word are you referring to? How is having no God before the true God stupid? There are many gods/false idols whether you believe in the one God or not.
The great irony is that your logic is why Peganism fell to Christianity. You believe God in a pegan way, and that just doesn't work in the face of a sophisticated intellectual approach. Christianity won because great minds could actually believe in it and find greater depth through study.
So someone lied to you about the transmission of the Bible and you blamed the Bible for that? Seems like a strawman.
@BulletRain100 seems more like Pagans are forced to live in reality while Christians were at least smart enough to keep "God" outside of logical reach.
Lighting is just natural process ABC and not (insert entity name)
Pagans- damn I was wrong.
Christians- well uh did you think about who pressed the button for process abc?
So glad you did this vid paul. Not only is the drama fun but i wouldn't want to give any of these other guys a view
Of course Christians go nuts for apologists and debaters. Apologists and debaters exist.
**smiles**
REPENT! JESUS CHRIST IS REAL AND IS COMING BACK!!!
Paul is not a witness of the 500, he received that message, read the earlier passages....so it's a 3rd hand account at best with no testimony or names...
REPENT OF YOUR SINS AND BELIEVE THAT JESUS CHRIST LIVED, DIED, AND RESURRECTED FROM THE DEAD ON THE 3RD DAY. HE IS REAL AND HE IS COMING BACK!!!
@natarianimationsandmore Capital letters don’t make it true.
Theres no need to read anything but the creed itself since its has at the end of the list lastly he appeared to me. Meaning Paul is the last one to have seen the vision of the risen Jesus.
@mattm8870 after he falls off a horse...right?
@@mattm8870 And that suggests that no one saw anything but visions.
He should get Bart Ehrman on now
No religion is legitimate. Debate over.
Thanks for covering this.
The funniest thing was Rogan calling himself an expert on comedy 😂
or martial arts 🤣 what, you got one exebition fight as a kid and now you are expert
Well that was a funny line, so maybe??🤷
Wes Huff bragging about winning a debate with Billy Carson is like beating up a disabled homeless man and calling yourself Mohammed Ali
Thanks for mentioning Dr. Kipp!
It makes sense the Christian hero would be the guy who defeats an ancient aliens proponent.
I know 50,000 people that saw Elvis alive serving chili at a truck stop in Des Moine. Kurt Cobain and Tupac were the chefs. Convinced...?
No, because I wasn't taught that as a child.
Sigh, I find myself falling into the same pattern as Joe with people I respect or who I think is smarter than me (could be residual from christianity). I'm slowly learning that just because they are an expert in one field doesn't mean they know everything and can be a "guide". Like, even with someone like Kipp, I still need to be careful. It's almost like fandom in a way. Weird. Thanks for the video!
"People in the ancient world would have just accepted the miracle claims"
"There were people that witnessed Jesus who would/ could have fact checked the claims about him"
Why would they need to factcheck if no one really questioned the factuality?
How is a guy writing about Jesus miracles as some of these Egyptian miracles confirmation of him doing miracles. Is the suggestion that the Egyptian miracles are also true then?
...
There are so many unresolvable problems in his statements.
Professor Dave has lampooned Billy Carson quite extensively over the course of several videos. I highly recommend checking it out!
Christians and Christian apologists talk about the Resurrection as such a miraculous singular event, but Jesus wasn't the first person, according to the Bible, to come back to life. Tales of people coming back from the dead weren't that uncommon in the ancient world.
Lazarus, the guy Jesus is recorded as having raised him from the dead days after he died but no evidence he existed, no one paying any attention to the fact a man was literally raised from the dead and in front of witnesses. Seems like a literary device to insinuate that if it could happen once, it could happen again. If you believe a man raised a man from the dead, how much more willing are you to believe that a man who was god raised himself from the dead? The gospels are basically just a series of devices tp prepare the reader to believe what cannot be proven until we get to Hebrews where they say the quiet part out loud about how utterly lacking in substance any concept of faith is, by their own words no less.
@alive2583 Who...what?
@@betford2 65,000 predicted its a lot of y’all
If Jesus came back from the dead then we can be confident he is who he said he was, the Son Of God that has huge implications
He came to life and did not die again
i dont know why Joe keeps saying he's not an expert in a lot of things but he keeps giving strong confident opinions on things he doesn't know 😅
We don't even know who wrote the gospels
or what a deity is.
THANK GAWD you did a reaction vid!!! I *tried* to watch Joe's interview.. but.. Joe's irresponsibly was stomach turning!!!
just watching your reaction now..
Huff also brags of Peter being crucified upside down which is found in the Acts of Peter and none the cannonical protestant or catholic books and happens to include a walking talking cross. Can we get some real scholarship on Huff please. This is getting out of hand with the Huff worship 😅
REPENT IF YOURE SEEING THIS! JESUS CHRIST IS REAL AND HES COMING BACK!!!
The walking talking cross is in the Gospel of Peter. The Acts of Peter has a flying wizard, a talking dog, and the resurrection of a herring. It is, as you say, in the AoP that Peter is crucified upside down. For bad marriage counselling.
These are the trustworthy documents at the foundation of Christianity.
The story of Peter being crucified upside down always made no sense to me. Like, why would the Romans heed his request? From everything I’ve read about the Romans, they’d probably just say “Yeah, not our problem” and crucify him normally. Heck they’d probably make it a point to crucify him the same way to avoid giving Jesus any reverence.
@@Colddirector Read the story of St. Ignatius, and see what sense that makes. The main academic question is how much the letters that aren't deemed forgeries (less than half) have been tampered with. My question is whether Ignatius existed.
Acts 21:27-40 is a bit odd, as well. A riot starts around Paul. The Roman soldiers drag Paul out of the crowd and take him to the commander. And then the commander lets him face the crowd and make a speech. Surely any semi-competent officer would whisk him out of sight rather than risk him stirring up the riot even more.
@@Colddirector NISUS WETTUS: Next. Crucifixion?
PRISONER #1: Yes.
NISUS: Good. Out of the door. Line on the left. One cross each. Next. Crucifixion?
PRISONER #2: Yes. ...
13:07 that mf joe said he’s a comedy expert 🤣🤣🤣
If he means that his LIFE is the joke, then maybe that's true
I recently read Celsus's arguments against early Christianity and it's kind of depressing that the same arguments backed by solid logic and reason have been being defeated by madness and superstition for 2000 years.
What is logic and reason?
@@rujotheone it was nonsense then and nonsense today
Alright. I have now officially watched every response video to Wes Huff's appearance on Joe Rogan, and I have concluded that mine is easily the best one.
But, this video from @Paulogia is unquestionably the second-best one. Be sure watch it more than once.
You appear second-most in this one, so that makes sense.
Imagine Wes debating someone who actually knows their stuff rather than low hanging fruit like Billy who has been called out by everyone other than the people in his group
He’d counter them also.
@leondonnelly6271 doubt it.. since he is already been called out on certain things he said on Rogan...
@
Yet he corrects himself and continues.
@leondonnelly6271 Ehhh.. no.. He was called out on quite a few things by even one of his friends he works with who makes a difference between Sholar Wess and Apologetic Wes... He made quite a few mistakes ( or lies ) when the conversation went passed Billy Carson.. maybe step out of the echochamber and watch the other side
@leondonnelly6271 not true.. even one of his friends called him out 🤣
Oooooo I was waiting for this one
Calling the gospels biographies in general is kinda laughable
pure myth
Wow, great video! I had no idea about Wes or Billy or any of this, so I love the context at the beginning explaining the whole situation, but then your breakdown of the conversation is pure gold. Love it, keep it up
Did I hear Blow say he was an expert in Comedy. Now that's Comedy.
To be fair, you can be an expert in the theory of something, and awful in the practice of it.
@@RocketboyXHave you seen the group of “comediennes “ he hangs with and considers to be the best in the business?
It's doubly funny because Carson really only gained traction after Rogan had him on and let him yap for for an hour following the Terrence Howard stuff.
Then Rogan had 2 guys on that debunked those people that he propped up
I know it might be good for clicks. But we’d be better off if nobody mentions Joe Rogan’s show ever again.
We’d really be better off if Joe Rogan’s show disappeared completely.
We'd be best off if an army of debate ninjas disguised themselves as his scheduled guests, showed up in the real guests' place and debated Rogan over all the errors and misinformation he's spread across his career, for the rest of his life.
Let’s be honest: Billy’s people are not mentioned in the Bible… and that’s OK, because Orientals aren’t mentioned either… no Eskimos or Amerindians, or anyone else but Caucasians 😮 Noah landed in the Caucass mountains ( Ararat/ Aratta) if it were true: everyone would be caucasians with the same genetics and haplogroups and blood type… but that’s not so, now is it..? That’s reason number 2741 that we know that it is false… any good apologist destroyer could easily take Huff down with ease… like Paulogia, Gnostic Informant, mythVision, Hitchens ( RIP) and hundreds of others… Wes is an apologetic and not really that good…
Noah’s story was taken directly from a earlier Sumerian tale of a local flood, Moses birth narrative was taken directly from the birth narrative of Sargon of Akkad, the earliest forms never say he parted the Red Sea, it says Yam Suph, which is the sea of Reeds, but that’s not as exciting, now is it…? 😮 did the Exodus ever happen..? We have no proof that any of it ever happened, now do we…? Did the Jesus narrative ever happen…? Many have shown that there is no evidence if any of it… and even the gospels are shown to be forgeries that claim one of his disciples wrote this, but there is no evidence and reason to believe that it definitely was not… and there are many ruining discrepancies and contradictions in those same gospels… which one was true or correct, if any..? Did the undead walk the earth after his resurrection..? Did anyone even refer to it… ? Good response Paulogia… 😊
When did we atheist vote for Billy to be our fearless leader???
Billy Carson really isn’t an atheist. He believes in God and Jesus, but thinks they are energies in the universe or some such.
Huff also said, "The Great Isaiah Scroll represents word for word The Masoratic Text (MT).
The notion that the Great Isaiah Scroll represents word for word The Masoratic Text (MT) and that this shocks Scholars is 100% false ~ that's not true at all. ... (Dan McClellan)
Paulogia has to be 100% accurate in everything he says according to apologists, BUT apologists just have to have the " jist " accuracy. Haha.
this is the first time I've heard of Mark Minard, and...hoo buddy. bless his heart. how on earth does this guy have a gigantic audience? watching the original debate was incredibly painful, despite the correct historical positions Huff asserts.
Uh oh. You will now experience the wrath of the Huff cult.
The Huff cult are also card carrying members of the IP cult, Habermas cult, etc...
No you won’t. He doesn’t have a cult.
@@29memyselfandi Give him a few months
@@29memyselfandi See Wes counter video from Mythvision's comments. He very much does. That is pre JRE. You can bet 80% of them didn't even watch it as they called Carson supporters.
@@njspencer79 ok, write that out again and this time pay attention to your punctuation and finish off your sentences as I’ve genuinely no idea what you’re telling me.
I can’t think of anything I would enjoy more than a Paulogia Huff debate. it’s crazy that he got so elevated by just taking down a grifter who was telling lies.
When speaking as a historian you shouldn't even claim that Jesus "objectively lived". Was there a guy in the first century named -Jesus- -Josh- Yeshua? Sure, he *probably* existed, but that's the best you can say as a serious scholar, when all the near-contemporary extra-biblical references to the man are either confirmed later forgeries or just reports on Christian beliefs by people who don't even claim to have ever seen a historical Jesus.
In my early days of deconstructing the lies beat into me as a boy I came across this quote from Aron Ra and to this day I have found nothing else that quite encapsulates the entire issue. And thank you y'all for producing such great material for those of us searching for truth.
"If there really was one true god, it should be a singular composite of every religion’s gods, an uber-galactic super-genius, and the ultimate
entity of the entire cosmos. If a being of that magnitude ever wrote a book, then there would only be one such document; one book of God. It
would be dominant everywhere in the world with no predecessors or parallels or alternatives in any language, because mere human authors
couldn’t possibly compete with it. And you wouldn’t need faith to believe it, because it would be consistent with all evidence and demonstrably true, revealing profound morality and wisdom far beyond contemporary human capacity. It would invariably inspire a unity of common belief for every reader. If God wrote it, we could expect no less. But what we see instead is the very opposite of that."
~Aron Ra
I know this is purely a personal response, but Huff just gives me very 'used car salesman' vibes.
I've had a lot of people touting Huff at me lately, I have no idea what they see in him.
Well, when you back drop an expert with the lowest of the low hanging fruit, they will look like a super genius. Those who are subject to confirmation bias are easily impressed by those who confirm their bias, while claiming to be an expert especially in the cult of xtianity.
covert narc charm
I have never heard of Billy or Wes before this. I am as impressed with both of them equally.
not alot then..
24:40 "So far Ive heard no Christian call him out for" - then you weren't paying attention. Immediately after the Rogan episode aired there were Christians publicly correcting Wes's mistakes and he HIMSELF went on other people's channels and admitted his mistakes and even explained why he goofed up in the moment. He's human for goodness sakes.
Recently he posted a video "debunking" himself. It is just obvious that Wes never intended to mislead Rogan or his audience.
Appealing to what’s obvious on intuition is the oldest apologetic of all.
@Paulogia Nice red herring!
He knew what he was doing during rogan he's lying for christ.
@@Paulogia why are you being dishonest?
It's as if you don't realize Huff would know exactly what to do if he wanted to pretend it was all honest mistakes. Do you think he's stupid?