I have the tarp from derrick and love it. built tough. I got lucky last year and found a 4 point Hudson bay at a thrift store for $1.50. I held that thing so tight when I found it I bet they thought I was stealing it. lol
I purchased that green tarp from menards and waterproofed it at home. Took me 11 hours but when you have more time then money its worth it. (btw it worked, water just sheets right off.) Thanks dave for another great video
Really good info Dave. Love my Army Issue 5 Piece Set ( Goretex cover-two bags-spring and winter bags, compression bag, and barracks bag) and it is stored in a barracks bag (looks like fish net with a drawstring-about 24x30 inches on the shelf)uncompressed in my shop to keep the loft from flattening. Also remove it and hang outside, turned inside out on hot low humidity day). Always have two wool blankets in my vehicle, and emergency clothing based on weather (Summer or Winter)
Tyvek weighs 1.85 oz a yard. It's just a tad heavier and much tougher than silnylon (1,1 oz yard), and can often be scrounged from construction sites. No grommets needed, use a sheet bend to attach line to the corners and a pebble and clove hitch for pull outs.
Dave, have you ever experimented with military body bags? These are designed to hold in bodily fluids, so they are waterproof. They zip up down the middle and one can put a sleeping bag in one like a Goretex outer bag. They have six tie-out handles on them, which makes for a good stretcher, or a raised bed. They are cheap surplus items, and are relatively light weight.
This was a great video. I was really interested in wool and I did not know all of the advantages and disadvantages. I like hearing from someone that has used this stuff extensively. Thanks Dave.
Absolutely! its helpful!! Thanks for taking the time to do this series. Its always a constant puzzle -- how much money do I have (or not) and what do I need (what will work). Way too many voices out there trying to do a sell job on items that are too expensive or too cheap. Your breakdowns and comparisons are priceless. Thank you again.
I am Canadian, so Hundson Bay stuff is cheaper here, and I still swear by my MSS system. It's a one stop shop! All seasons it works! U remove/add layers based on temps. I have gone down to -40c and had to keep zipper open to vent! In summer, I use my woobie (poncho liner) and the shell and it's plenty. To give MORE example, I camp in a hammock and at the -40c example, I had NO underquilt, and used my woobie as an over quilt/micro shelter (hanging over ridge line as a breathable micro shelter) I had ZERO frost inside shelter and was so warm, I forgot I was camping! (there WAS frost on OUTSIDE of the woobie)
I have the MMS system and some Isreali surplus 100 % wool blankets. I paid about 75 for the sleep system and 20 bucks each for the twin sized blankets. They came treated with lanolin after dry cleaning and are super warm. Lanolin stops the itchies and scratchies and provides a water resitance over the original fabric so you dont end up with a wet dog smelling blanket when it gets wet.
Dave, another excellent video. I'm using a combination set up. It consists of the USGI Bivy sack, British Pattern 58 down bag and a heavy 100% wool blanket. This has worked well in all kinds of weather. Keep the vids coming. It's very much appreciated.
Chiggers! I live in Ozarks of Missouri and apparently taste particularly good to the damn critters. Post bite apply aerosol hair spray to the affected area - it will sting some if you have already scratched it vigorously - but is best thing I have found after the damage is done. I find that I get hours of relief from first application and normally at most require 3 applications till no further aggravation.
My favorite subject ! I’ve been building shelters ( forts ) all my life, I never pass up an opportunity to experiment on new shelter concepts and perfecting my skills on the tried and true methods
Wow! Thanks Dave! That's a TON of great information to get my brain wrapped around. I got MMS systems for me and my son for our Boy Scouting adventures and so far we really like them. After an experience last fall where we woke up in our tent to 40° temps and a puddle in my sleeping bag, I decided to get better prepared. Also have matching wool blankets for us as alternative options depending on the weather. All great advice from you!!! Thanks so much for all you do for us, Dave!! :-)
I really like my sleeping bags. I've got a couple of them, & neither are really expensive ($75 or so when I got them). I've used them with a good rubber pad & either a tent or a Gore-tex bivy, depending upon how much I wanted to carry, and I've slept very comfortably from 70° all the way down to -25°. In cold weather I also tend to carry one of those military style 100% wool blankets to go with it. They weight very little & are just too useful to leave behind! Sleeping bag+wool blanket=comfort!
The older ICW and ECW bags (green cotton duck exterior and center zip,were less expensive than the MSS,and warmer (for me). Down side is that the zippers don't line up with the new bivy bags from the MSS. The best option, as mentioned, is a sleeping bag and wool blanket,. Get one of the thinner military blankets. You can wrap up in it next to the fire,and if you want to sleep with a fire, throw it over the sleeping bag to protect the bag from embers.
Wow 9 years. God bless, Dave. Would love to see you go to Africa, do a bush hunt, show some native bush camping styles and all the surrounding stuff. Cheers brother
Great video Dave! I've had a MMS for 3-4 years now and it's really hard to incorporate it into most if my kits due to the size and weight. However, operating out of a base camp it's fantastic. As long as I can keep it relatively dry, I've found that a thin down bag with good bivvy or SOL Escape bivvy, works well in my milder climate.
Dave, I went back and forth over what kind of emergency gear to carry, researching ECWCS, 18th century gear and older military, against Eastern Woodlands weather and climate, and ended up going hybrid. I went with bivvy sack and black bag, with older 100% wool household blankets to take place of the green bag. That way, I have the bivvy sack and extreme cold capability, but we can wrap up in a blanket or keep warm when wet. Best of both worlds.
I have a couple of military wool blankets and where I live in southern California this is enough to stay comfortable, I'd like to get one of those gortex bivy sacks to go with them though
Hey guys I've recently picked up three 100 % virgin wool blankets at 2 different thrift stores. First one was only a buck!. The other was 6 bucks and the third was free. They are those weird 70 's colours like orange and yellow with have a satiny top strip.They work great but are only single size. Keep your eyes peeled they are quite common and even have tags stating 100 virgin wool.
The best place I have found for Tarp's on the net is Tarpsplus they have treated canvas tarp's upto 70% off all the time, A few years back I bought a 8x14 for $75 plus S&H normally that tarp would cost $200 (fire retardent). Awsome vid Dave as always Love the Bullet proof on a budget
Storing about any sleeping bag compressed for long periods of time is bad for it, basically reduces the half-life of the insulating material. That winter bag becomes only a summer bag after a few years. But $30-75 every 3-5 years isn't a big deal, but when they were $275 it was. In my opinion, as long as you have the Gore Tex bivy any sleeping bag will do, but the MSS's bivy and closure placement is what makes it special. That and being modular, only take what you need. Semper Fi
For warm weather, we each use whatever gives us peace of mind. You had a great video where you mentioned that while all woodsmen from the past wore moccasins, they only did so because they had no other choice, and complained about them all the time. I think wool blankets fall into that category, in particular during cold weather. There was little choice at the time, but they were all looking for better option. Kephart advocated for sleeping bags, E.H. Kreps for fur blankets, etc. Love the vids.
Correct about not storing sleeping bags compressed,it mashes the insulation down reducing its effective rating.Just like you should stuff it into the stuff sack,if you roll it up the same way everytime you start to move the insulation around causing it to get cold spots.Plus like Dave says you gotta air those bags out after using them.
I think down sleeping bags deserved at least an honorable mention. The military surplus ones aren't light for down, but they are lighter than a wool blanket and are on par with the mms, but I've seen them cheap, and they breathe better in cold temps than synthetics do. they also have a cotton exterior that could survive a spark or 2. Moving beyond "common man" high quality down is the best, especially if fire isn't an option, which can happen.
Sometimes you have to work to be comfy all night. Cutting evergreen boughs, digging a coal bed, heating rocks, etc. Location also plays a big part in your comfort and what you pack. South Florida winters aren't nearly as harsh as Alaska obviously. Here in Va record low was -30F, record high was 110F. Here a mil surplus sleeping pad and two heavy wool blankets have been all that's needed. I usually keep a fleece throw as well, that helps if you get above 3000 feet, i'll pack heavier above 5-6k ft
Excellent review of the options. I've followed for years and now have moved from 'in the sticks' to out of the sticks to Denmark. You may remember me from many years of posting. In extreme cold weather, I would recommend the older ECW bag, and the gortex bivy from the MMS only in potentially wet conditions. Especially for the much colder northern parts, the old ECW bag breaths much better, you can dry cloths in it, and is much warming and worth the weight in extreme conditions. Thank you. :ø)
Dave, We're chomping at the Bit for those Camo Dry Bags.....How much more R&D will there be, until they're ready for the public?............. Here's a tip... those smelly wool blankets can be fixed...... I put one on a clothes line back in early October, Left it there until mid February... only flipping it over when it was dry, it rained on it, snowed on it, Don't seem to have hurt it any, No holes and NO SMELL, nice blanket now, I'll buy more now I know how to cure it.
Yes sir! I got a Vintage Minnesota Woolen Co Queen size 100% pure wool blanket on ebay for $50 including shipping. if you know what your looking for and willing to do the work it is well worth it and you can find one for yourselves.
The through hikers of the Appalachian Trail mostly use lightweight gear, including silnylon tarps and lightweight backpacks. With 180 or so consecutive nights of use, their lightweight gear comes through with flying colours and would get more use than most people would do in 20 years.
Hey, Dave. I recently purchased a 10 mil thick tarp from Walmart that's 10' x 8' for about $11. It's silver on one side, brown on the other. Not a bad deal, and it should last a lot longer than a standard 4 mil tarp.
Man, I really love this series, I'm just gettin back into camping after several years, my skill haven't gotten soft but my salary sure has. Keep the videos coming, I'm learning so much and adapting my skill to be more effective.
Great info! The only addition to that would be the size of a lot of sleep systems. For bigger folks sometimes the sleep systems don't work as well. But as you said, you have to look at what you are getting. Great ideas for the youngsters I help with on their bushcraft kits. Thanks Dave
My 2 cents: The MSS is the absolute best value going. The Patrol Bag alone (Black) has an operating range of +30 to -10 degrees. For +30 degrees to +50 degrees, the Intermediate Bag (OD) is ideal. For 3 Season use, the Intermediate Bag is the best one can have and it ONLY weighs 2.18 lbs. They can regularly be picked up for $30. Want anything significantly lighter than that in that range? Be prepared to spend $200. The standard stuff sack is weak. Going with a waterproof sack myself.
I concur! My Polish wool blanket is nice but it I hadn't taken my sleeping bag I would have been miserable (35 degrees, rain, poncho and hammock). Buying an MMS today on eBay for the next trip! Oh! Great advise on the dry bags for the sleeping bag. It was one of those small details that made a huge difference in my trip. I stayed dry on the hike to the campsite, my buds had wet sleeping bags. Keep up the great vids!
Dave I have heared you go over all types of gear and I have learened a lot by watching your videos. Onething I have never heared you give a full review on is rain wear, hopfully you could do something like that in the future. Thanks brother.
Love it! All I have right now is the military wool blanket. After I get the rifle I am saving up for, I will focus on getting a good Hudson Bay wool blanket.
Ok dave you give so much information on a lot of subjects. Can you do a video on a complete pack that would be good for a month. You just give a lot of options.
I like the MSS and I used it for many years. These days however there are many commercially available sleeping bags in the $100-$200 range (let alone the $350 range) that significantly outperform the MSS and certainly a wool blanket. They are much lighter, much more compressible and much warmer. Like Horace Kephart said, the weight of wool blankets sufficient to keep you warm in winter would make them impractical to carry. The MSS is a better option, but there are even better ones out there.
The blanket may weigh as much as the MSS, but the MSS is rated to much lower temperatures than the wool blanket and will outperform it in that way. It is more insulation for the same weight. Also, the MSS is very old technology at this point. Modern bags perform much better. My -25F winter bag weighs 3lb and compresses to a quarter of the size of the blanket. You are right that a wool blanket is more resistant to fire, but the beauty of a properly rated sleeping bag is that you don't need one.
So I know this video is old. But I just wanted to comment on the MSS sleep system. The Gortex bivy bag IS NOT water proof! I spent 20 years in the infantry using that sleep system and trust me you lay out in the rain you are going to get wet.
As I see it, if you are going to be out for weeks, a vapor barrier is a must for preserving your bag's insulation. You will not be able to air dry sufficiently. The vapor barrier system is one that I think everyone should carefully research. Lots of pros and cons. So try a vapor system out for yourself. Don't take anyone's word for how it will work.Do your research.
I got one of the tarps from Sarge - it's bombproof. Very heavy, as you said, but kinda cool to carry in for a day in the bush. I wouldn't consider much else for a longer-term stay. Check out his method of carrying it - a great leather project for the beginner. Maybe one you could demonstrate? I can't even get close to that kind of tarp here for that price + postage from there. Good vid, thanks.
I have the green bag and the bivy. Green bag was great through the summer and fall, but I had an experience in the winter where it was super windy up on a mountain and I nearly got hypothermia, couldn't keep my arms and legs warm even with all the clothes I brought on, thankfully my friend had a wool blanket he was using as ground insulation and with that and all weather blanket I got through the night. Surprised you don't mention down bags, last longer than synthetic.
To combat moisture getting into the sleeping bags insulation, try using a trash can liner inside the bag. Or you could just buy a Stephenson's Warmlite which has a built in vapor barrier to keep the insulation, 850 goose down, dry. Also has a temp range of 65 degrees F to -65 degrees F. No, it is not for the budget minded, but it is the best. At warmlite dagesh com Dave, could you get a hold of a Stephenson's Warmlite sleeping bag and provide a review. If you did it would be a first as there are no reviews on RUclips for this bag. Go Dave, w00t.
I scored a MSS for $60 all three bags and wow it's warm we done a little car camping the end of last year and I hadn't tried the system out yet so I slept in it that night it got to 22F and I woke up hot and my wife was in my 20F bag and she was cold so the next night we swapped and she was comfortable and so was I.
Italian wool blankets... I'm for these 100%, thick, not too pricey. Go get one bushcrafters, I also found a Pendleton 100% virgin wool blanket for 6 dollars at an antique store which was a steel
Tarps online has some good canvas tarps at a pretty good price. All are treated to be water resistant and you can get them flame retardant. Also just checked ebay, you can get MSS for as low as 60 bucks shipped. I have one, may buy another :)
Love yer stuff! I've been trying to find rustic pole structure diagrams, like we used to see at Boy Scout jamborees, etc. There is a variety of these really simple structures I'd found in a book long ago. Am building a small campground/hostel in Maine. Thanks.
bwilliam, I agree with you in regards to the this condition backpacking, if one is a backpacker, but not all of us are backpackers, I like to car camp, boat camp and so on, or a short hike mile or two. I carry more tools sometimes in weight than a ultra lite backpacker carries total. But I agree with you on fire, I am not wanting to wake every hour to feed and baby sit it all night. I am not answering for Dave but for myself here. (:
when a sleeping bag is rated, its under the assumption that its used in conjunction with the typical camping sleep system. A sleeping pad or insulation under your body, AND some sort of shelter. a 40 degree bag wont be sufficient on its own in the elements in 40 degree weather. i have a 0 degree (-18 C) bag and a -22 (-30C) bag. no way in hell I'm sleeping in those on the ground.
I use the new sleep system so its a bit more expensive and I use a military 100% wool blanket. I usually only need and just carry the patrol bag in the small compression sack in my pack. But I have the intermediate bag, bivy bag and wool blanket in the large compression sack that I take if its going to be really cold and wet. Also considering adding a bag liner. That will give me even more options and more weight :/
Are you familiar with Filson? Filson started as an outfitter for men heading to the Alaska gold fields after seeing some of the garbage that people were taking up there. Filson started his company with the motto "Might as well have the best." All there stuff is very high quality and your grand kids will probably end up with your Filson gear. I don't know where you are but if your ever in Seattle check out there flagship store. Check out the windows that overlook the factory floor.
Awesome info! I just can't stand mummy bags LOL. Have you ever tried a hot coal bed? I've tried it on several occasions and it has worked well provided the ground isn't too frozen to be able to dig and your top cover is thick enough you don't get too warm.
My first wool blanket was a 100% Italian and I can't get used to the smell.. So I used my tax refund to get myself a 100% Filson wool blanket and I am glad I did. I know it's going to last and not keep me up all night stinking. lol Ok so what about ground cover Dave? I live in a state that rains a LOT. Keeping moisture away from me is a concern. Thanks for the video
Let's see: four bucks buys a plastic tarp that will last a season. Sixteen bucks gives me four seasons. If I lose or have a four dollar tarp stolen, I won't shed any tears. I think I will go with the plastic tarps. That's just my way of thinking. I have used a plastic tarp that has held up over two years, but I have been careful with it. D Finally, if you are going to be out for weeks, a vapor barrier is a must for preserving your bag's insulation. You will not be able to air dry sufficiently.
You used a fleece blanket in a video for an outdoor convention/show, I think, but that's the only time I think you've mentioned fleece? Also, any plans to cover clothing? Oh, and where was the space blanket? I was surprised you didn't show it. Anyway, thanks! I learned a lot and will probably make purchases based on this video.
why don't you use the compression sack with the MSS system? it would compress down smaller than in the dry bag and if you're worried about it getting wet, put it in a smaller dry bag, smaller and waterproof.
your right there is a difrence between common man and cheap. what do you think of use the self inflate mat between the MMS atic or other bag and the bivy? do use every use the patrol green bag? great vid Dave
sheep wool or alpaca wool? I noticed a Filson Mackinaw Wool Blanket at Gander Mt. however I do not want to waste over 200.00 to find out it wasn't durable enough for a kit.
dave when i was in high school we had a ROTC program i was in and we used to pull targets every year for extra money to support our rifle team at black canyon range in AZ we would camp out and i remember being given what they called a half shelter i carried one half and my buddy carried the other its been a long time ago but i do remember they did pretty well for what they were do you think that would be an option for prehaps a cheap army surplus if you can find it ?
I have the tarp from derrick and love it. built tough. I got lucky last year and found a 4 point Hudson bay at a thrift store for $1.50. I held that thing so tight when I found it I bet they thought I was stealing it. lol
I purchased that green tarp from menards and waterproofed it at home. Took me 11 hours but when you have more time then money its worth it. (btw it worked, water just sheets right off.)
Thanks dave for another great video
Really good info Dave. Love my Army Issue 5 Piece Set ( Goretex cover-two bags-spring and winter bags, compression bag, and barracks bag) and it is stored in a barracks bag (looks like fish net with a drawstring-about 24x30 inches on the shelf)uncompressed in my shop to keep the loft from flattening. Also remove it and hang outside, turned inside out on hot low humidity day). Always have two wool blankets in my vehicle, and emergency clothing based on weather (Summer or Winter)
Seems to me like a couple military wool blankets in a good bivvy bag would work pretty good.
Tyvek weighs 1.85 oz a yard. It's just a tad heavier and much tougher than silnylon (1,1 oz yard), and can often be scrounged from construction sites. No grommets needed, use a sheet bend to attach line to the corners and a pebble and clove hitch for pull outs.
Dave, have you ever experimented with military body bags? These are designed to hold in bodily fluids, so they are waterproof. They zip up down the middle and one can put a sleeping bag in one like a Goretex outer bag. They have six tie-out handles on them, which makes for a good stretcher, or a raised bed. They are cheap surplus items, and are relatively light weight.
This was a great video. I was really interested in wool and I did not know all of the advantages and disadvantages. I like hearing from someone that has used this stuff extensively. Thanks Dave.
Absolutely! its helpful!! Thanks for taking the time to do this series. Its always a constant puzzle -- how much money do I have (or not) and what do I need (what will work). Way too many voices out there trying to do a sell job on items that are too expensive or too cheap. Your breakdowns and comparisons are priceless.
Thank you again.
Dave mentioned a Poncho Liner. Use one alone or with poncho, or add one inside a sleeping bag and bivy cover and you are set.
I am Canadian, so Hundson Bay stuff is cheaper here, and I still swear by my MSS system. It's a one stop shop! All seasons it works! U remove/add layers based on temps. I have gone down to -40c and had to keep zipper open to vent! In summer, I use my woobie (poncho liner) and the shell and it's plenty. To give MORE example, I camp in a hammock and at the -40c example, I had NO underquilt, and used my woobie as an over quilt/micro shelter (hanging over ridge line as a breathable micro shelter) I had ZERO frost inside shelter and was so warm, I forgot I was camping! (there WAS frost on OUTSIDE of the woobie)
I have the MMS system and some Isreali surplus 100 % wool blankets. I paid about 75 for the sleep system and 20 bucks each for the twin sized blankets. They came treated with lanolin after dry cleaning and are super warm. Lanolin stops the itchies and scratchies and provides a water resitance over the original fabric so you dont end up with a wet dog smelling blanket when it gets wet.
Dave, another excellent video. I'm using a combination set up. It consists of the USGI Bivy sack, British Pattern 58 down bag and a heavy 100% wool blanket. This has worked well in all kinds of weather. Keep the vids coming. It's very much appreciated.
Chiggers! I live in Ozarks of Missouri and apparently taste particularly good to the damn critters. Post bite apply aerosol hair spray to the affected area - it will sting some if you have already scratched it vigorously - but is best thing I have found after the damage is done. I find that I get hours of relief from first application and normally at most require 3 applications till no further aggravation.
My favorite subject ! I’ve been building shelters ( forts ) all my life, I never pass up an opportunity to experiment on new shelter concepts and perfecting my skills on the tried and true methods
Wow! Thanks Dave! That's a TON of great information to get my brain wrapped around. I got MMS systems for me and my son for our Boy Scouting adventures and so far we really like them. After an experience last fall where we woke up in our tent to 40° temps and a puddle in my sleeping bag, I decided to get better prepared. Also have matching wool blankets for us as alternative options depending on the weather. All great advice from you!!!
Thanks so much for all you do for us, Dave!! :-)
I really like my sleeping bags. I've got a couple of them, & neither are really expensive ($75 or so when I got them). I've used them with a good rubber pad & either a tent or a Gore-tex bivy, depending upon how much I wanted to carry, and I've slept very comfortably from 70° all the way down to -25°. In cold weather I also tend to carry one of those military style 100% wool blankets to go with it. They weight very little & are just too useful to leave behind! Sleeping bag+wool blanket=comfort!
I keep coming by to learn again, Dave. Thank you!
The older ICW and ECW bags (green cotton duck exterior and center zip,were less expensive than the MSS,and warmer (for me). Down side is that the zippers don't line up with the new bivy bags from the MSS.
The best option, as mentioned, is a sleeping bag and wool blanket,. Get one of the thinner military blankets. You can wrap up in it next to the fire,and if you want to sleep with a fire, throw it over the sleeping bag to protect the bag from embers.
Wow 9 years. God bless, Dave. Would love to see you go to Africa, do a bush hunt, show some native bush camping styles and all the surrounding stuff. Cheers brother
Great video Dave! I've had a MMS for 3-4 years now and it's really hard to incorporate it into most if my kits due to the size and weight. However, operating out of a base camp it's fantastic. As long as I can keep it relatively dry, I've found that a thin down bag with good bivvy or SOL Escape bivvy, works well in my milder climate.
Dave, I went back and forth over what kind of emergency gear to carry, researching ECWCS, 18th century gear and older military, against Eastern Woodlands weather and climate, and ended up going hybrid. I went with bivvy sack and black bag, with older 100% wool household blankets to take place of the green bag. That way, I have the bivvy sack and extreme cold capability, but we can wrap up in a blanket or keep warm when wet. Best of both worlds.
I have a couple of military wool blankets and where I live in southern California this is enough to stay comfortable, I'd like to get one of those gortex bivy sacks to go with them though
Hey guys I've recently picked up three 100 % virgin wool blankets at 2 different thrift stores. First one was only a buck!. The other was 6 bucks and the third was free. They are those weird 70 's colours like orange and yellow with have a satiny top strip.They work great but are only single size. Keep your eyes peeled they are quite common and even have tags stating 100 virgin wool.
The best place I have found for Tarp's on the net is Tarpsplus they have treated canvas tarp's upto 70% off all the time, A few years back I bought a 8x14 for $75 plus S&H normally that tarp would cost $200 (fire retardent). Awsome vid Dave as always
Love the Bullet proof on a budget
Storing about any sleeping bag compressed for long periods of time is bad for it, basically reduces the half-life of the insulating material. That winter bag becomes only a summer bag after a few years. But $30-75 every 3-5 years isn't a big deal, but when they were $275 it was. In my opinion, as long as you have the Gore Tex bivy any sleeping bag will do, but the MSS's bivy and closure placement is what makes it special. That and being modular, only take what you need.
Semper Fi
🌟OUTSTANDING JOB MY FRIEND!
YOU EXPLAINED EVERYTHING VERY WELL AND EASY TO UNDERSTAND.
KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK. 🤠
For warm weather, we each use whatever gives us peace of mind. You had a great video where you mentioned that while all woodsmen from the past wore moccasins, they only did so because they had no other choice, and complained about them all the time. I think wool blankets fall into that category, in particular during cold weather. There was little choice at the time, but they were all looking for better option. Kephart advocated for sleeping bags, E.H. Kreps for fur blankets, etc. Love the vids.
Correct about not storing sleeping bags compressed,it mashes the insulation down reducing its effective rating.Just like you should stuff it into the stuff sack,if you roll it up the same way everytime you start to move the insulation around causing it to get cold spots.Plus like Dave says you gotta air those bags out after using them.
I think down sleeping bags deserved at least an honorable mention. The military surplus ones aren't light for down, but they are lighter than a wool blanket and are on par with the mms, but I've seen them cheap, and they breathe better in cold temps than synthetics do. they also have a cotton exterior that could survive a spark or 2. Moving beyond "common man" high quality down is the best, especially if fire isn't an option, which can happen.
Sometimes you have to work to be comfy all night. Cutting evergreen boughs, digging a coal bed, heating rocks, etc. Location also plays a big part in your comfort and what you pack. South Florida winters aren't nearly as harsh as Alaska obviously. Here in Va record low was -30F, record high was 110F. Here a mil surplus sleeping pad and two heavy wool blankets have been all that's needed. I usually keep a fleece throw as well, that helps if you get above 3000 feet, i'll pack heavier above 5-6k ft
Excellent review of the options. I've followed for years and now have moved from 'in the sticks' to out of the sticks to Denmark. You may remember me from many years of posting. In extreme cold weather, I would recommend the older ECW bag, and the gortex bivy from the MMS only in potentially wet conditions. Especially for the much colder northern parts, the old ECW bag breaths much better, you can dry cloths in it, and is much warming and worth the weight in extreme conditions. Thank you. :ø)
Dave, We're chomping at the Bit for those Camo Dry Bags.....How much more R&D will there be, until they're ready for the public?............. Here's a tip... those smelly wool blankets can be fixed...... I put one on a clothes line back in early October, Left it there until mid February... only flipping it over when it was dry, it rained on it, snowed on it, Don't seem to have hurt it any, No holes and NO SMELL, nice blanket now, I'll buy more now I know how to cure it.
Yes sir! I got a Vintage Minnesota Woolen Co Queen size 100% pure wool blanket on ebay for $50 including shipping. if you know what your looking for and willing to do the work it is well worth it and you can find one for yourselves.
The through hikers of the Appalachian Trail mostly use lightweight gear, including silnylon tarps and lightweight backpacks. With 180 or so consecutive nights of use, their lightweight gear comes through with flying colours and would get more use than most people would do in 20 years.
Went out n got me a mms system from the local army surplus store 125 bucks beat investment I have made .thanks dave ! Good stuff as always
Hey, Dave. I recently purchased a 10 mil thick tarp from Walmart that's 10' x 8' for about $11. It's silver on one side, brown on the other. Not a bad deal, and it should last a lot longer than a standard 4 mil tarp.
Man, I really love this series, I'm just gettin back into camping after several years, my skill haven't gotten soft but my salary sure has. Keep the videos coming, I'm learning so much and adapting my skill to be more effective.
Great info! The only addition to that would be the size of a lot of sleep systems. For bigger folks sometimes the sleep systems don't work as well. But as you said, you have to look at what you are getting.
Great ideas for the youngsters I help with on their bushcraft kits.
Thanks Dave
My 2 cents: The MSS is the absolute best value going. The Patrol Bag alone (Black) has an operating range of +30 to -10 degrees. For +30 degrees to +50 degrees, the Intermediate Bag (OD) is ideal. For 3 Season use, the Intermediate Bag is the best one can have and it ONLY weighs 2.18 lbs. They can regularly be picked up for $30. Want anything significantly lighter than that in that range? Be prepared to spend $200. The standard stuff sack is weak. Going with a waterproof sack myself.
I concur! My Polish wool blanket is nice but it I hadn't taken my sleeping bag I would have been miserable (35 degrees, rain, poncho and hammock). Buying an MMS today on eBay for the next trip! Oh! Great advise on the dry bags for the sleeping bag. It was one of those small details that made a huge difference in my trip. I stayed dry on the hike to the campsite, my buds had wet sleeping bags. Keep up the great vids!
Dave I have heared you go over all types of gear and I have learened a lot by watching your videos. Onething I have never heared you give a full review on is rain wear, hopfully you could do something like that in the future. Thanks brother.
Love it! All I have right now is the military wool blanket. After I get the rifle I am saving up for, I will focus on getting a good Hudson Bay wool blanket.
Ok dave you give so much information on a lot of subjects. Can you do a video on a complete pack that would be good for a month. You just give a lot of options.
I like the MSS and I used it for many years. These days however there are many commercially available sleeping bags in the $100-$200 range (let alone the $350 range) that significantly outperform the MSS and certainly a wool blanket. They are much lighter, much more compressible and much warmer. Like Horace Kephart said, the weight of wool blankets sufficient to keep you warm in winter would make them impractical to carry. The MSS is a better option, but there are even better ones out there.
I love my MMS system.. I camp with my Hammock and MMS all 4 seasons and I live in Maine!
The blanket may weigh as much as the MSS, but the MSS is rated to much lower temperatures than the wool blanket and will outperform it in that way. It is more insulation for the same weight. Also, the MSS is very old technology at this point. Modern bags perform much better. My -25F winter bag weighs 3lb and compresses to a quarter of the size of the blanket. You are right that a wool blanket is more resistant to fire, but the beauty of a properly rated sleeping bag is that you don't need one.
So I know this video is old. But I just wanted to comment on the MSS sleep system. The Gortex bivy bag IS NOT water proof! I spent 20 years in the infantry using that sleep system and trust me you lay out in the rain you are going to get wet.
Thank you. I'm shopping and needed to know that. 👍
As I see it, if you are going to be out for weeks, a vapor barrier is a must for preserving your bag's insulation. You will not be able to air dry sufficiently. The vapor barrier system is one that I think everyone should carefully research. Lots of pros and cons. So try a vapor system out for yourself. Don't take anyone's word for how it will work.Do your research.
i think A common man knows the importance of getting the most bang for the buck...thanks dave...a wealth of knowledge as always
I got one of the tarps from Sarge - it's bombproof. Very heavy, as you said, but kinda cool to carry in for a day in the bush. I wouldn't consider much else for a longer-term stay. Check out his method of carrying it - a great leather project for the beginner. Maybe one you could demonstrate? I can't even get close to that kind of tarp here for that price + postage from there. Good vid, thanks.
I just love this whole series. Dave, you are the best. Is there anybody that's not on a budget? I ain't never met'em.
I have the green bag and the bivy. Green bag was great through the summer and fall, but I had an experience in the winter where it was super windy up on a mountain and I nearly got hypothermia, couldn't keep my arms and legs warm even with all the clothes I brought on, thankfully my friend had a wool blanket he was using as ground insulation and with that and all weather blanket I got through the night. Surprised you don't mention down bags, last longer than synthetic.
To combat moisture getting into the sleeping bags insulation, try using a trash can liner inside the bag. Or you could just buy a Stephenson's Warmlite which has a built in vapor barrier to keep the insulation, 850 goose down, dry. Also has a temp range of 65 degrees F to -65 degrees F. No, it is not for the budget minded, but it is the best.
At warmlite dagesh com
Dave,
could you get a hold of a Stephenson's Warmlite sleeping bag and provide a review. If you did it would be a first as there are no reviews on RUclips for this bag.
Go Dave, w00t.
I just picked up a complete MSS sleep system on ebay for $35.00 + shipping. Well worth it!
I scored a MSS for $60 all three bags and wow it's warm we done a little car camping the end of last year and I hadn't tried the system out yet so I slept in it that night it got to 22F and I woke up hot and my wife was in my 20F bag and she was cold so the next night we swapped and she was comfortable and so was I.
Italian wool blankets... I'm for these 100%, thick, not too pricey. Go get one bushcrafters, I also found a Pendleton 100% virgin wool blanket for 6 dollars at an antique store which was a steel
Tarps online has some good canvas tarps at a pretty good price. All are treated to be water resistant and you can get them flame retardant. Also just checked ebay, you can get MSS for as low as 60 bucks shipped. I have one, may buy another :)
Love yer stuff! I've been trying to find rustic pole structure diagrams, like we used to see at Boy Scout jamborees, etc. There is a variety of these really simple structures I'd found in a book long ago. Am building a small campground/hostel in Maine. Thanks.
bwilliam, I agree with you in regards to the this condition backpacking, if one is a backpacker, but not all of us are backpackers, I like to car camp, boat camp and so on, or a short hike mile or two. I carry more tools sometimes in weight than a ultra lite backpacker carries total. But I agree with you on fire, I am not wanting to wake every hour to feed and baby sit it all night. I am not answering for Dave but for myself here. (:
Joe, it is him. These videos are part of the reason he was selected for the show.
thank you, answered a lot of my questions even some i never thought of.
when a sleeping bag is rated, its under the assumption that its used in conjunction with the typical camping sleep system. A sleeping pad or insulation under your body, AND some sort of shelter. a 40 degree bag wont be sufficient on its own in the elements in 40 degree weather. i have a 0 degree (-18 C) bag and a -22 (-30C) bag. no way in hell I'm sleeping in those on the ground.
great video Dave like always. Found out what I wanted to know for myself & family to use.
I think they will do just fine as long as it's not colder than that.
I use the new sleep system so its a bit more expensive and I use a military 100% wool blanket.
I usually only need and just carry the patrol bag in the small compression sack in my pack.
But I have the intermediate bag, bivy bag and wool blanket in the large compression sack that I take if its going to be really cold and wet.
Also considering adding a bag liner. That will give me even more options and more weight :/
Im really enjoying your bulletproof bushcraft series, Thank you! Im also looking forward to attending one of your courses this summer. Cheers
Great vid. BTW, bushcraftoutfitters has 5X7 Urethane Nylon tarps with tie outs for $22.00 - They're called M.E.S.T. tarps.
you are the man, very good tutorial. Regards nick
good information Dave, thanks again
John
Are you familiar with Filson? Filson started as an outfitter for men heading to the Alaska gold fields after seeing some of the garbage that people were taking up there. Filson started his company with the motto "Might as well have the best." All there stuff is very high quality and your grand kids will probably end up with your Filson gear. I don't know where you are but if your ever in Seattle check out there flagship store. Check out the windows that overlook the factory floor.
He is. His name is Dave Canterbury. He is an excellent bushcraft instructor and has his own school. I would recommend watching a lot of his videos.
Good Job. Telling it like it is.
Another excellent informational video Dave!!
Awesome info! I just can't stand mummy bags LOL. Have you ever tried a hot coal bed? I've tried it on several occasions and it has worked well provided the ground isn't too frozen to be able to dig and your top cover is thick enough you don't get too warm.
Great video , much appreciated .
hi i am a big fan you are always talking about wool blakets and bushcarft on a bugget check out sportman guied
Go with the military sleep system and the gortex outer shell. Cant go wrong.
Awesome vid dave. Good variety of solutions thanks.
What if you are allergic to wool, what would recondmend as a replacement to wool?
My first wool blanket was a 100% Italian and I can't get used to the smell.. So I used my tax refund to get myself a 100% Filson wool blanket and I am glad I did. I know it's going to last and not keep me up all night stinking. lol
Ok so what about ground cover Dave? I live in a state that rains a LOT. Keeping moisture away from me is a concern.
Thanks for the video
Lot of great information Brother, How would you go about drying a sleeping bag in different weather conditions?
Let's see: four bucks buys a plastic tarp that will last a season. Sixteen bucks gives me four seasons. If I lose or have a four dollar tarp stolen, I won't shed any tears. I think I will go with the plastic tarps. That's just my way of thinking. I have used a plastic tarp that has held up over two years, but I have been careful with it. D
Finally, if you are going to be out for weeks, a vapor barrier is a must for preserving your bag's insulation. You will not be able to air dry sufficiently.
A couple Clear Silicone and minetal spirits equals waterproof tarp paint it on !
Thanx Dave great video!!
You used a fleece blanket in a video for an outdoor convention/show, I think, but that's the only time I think you've mentioned fleece?
Also, any plans to cover clothing?
Oh, and where was the space blanket? I was surprised you didn't show it. Anyway, thanks! I learned a lot and will probably make purchases based on this video.
great video... i carry the mms and cant say enough good things about it money very well spent
Thanks Dave!
why don't you use the compression sack with the MSS system? it would compress down smaller than in the dry bag and if you're worried about it getting wet, put it in a smaller dry bag, smaller and waterproof.
your right there is a difrence between common man and cheap. what do you think of use the self inflate mat between the MMS atic or other bag and the bivy? do use every use the patrol green bag? great vid Dave
great vid dave... thx
The more you talk about the MSS the better I feel about the price I bought 2 of them for ($30 brand new)
I find the wool bends perform fine as long as they are blended with synthetic material.
sheep wool or alpaca wool? I noticed a Filson Mackinaw Wool Blanket at Gander Mt. however I do not want to waste over 200.00 to find out it wasn't durable enough for a kit.
Hey, it's the guy from Dual survival. I always liked this guy better than Cody or the different guy from season 3.
Hey Dave what about Alpaca? I've never really heard you say much about it other than the alpaca socks you were trying out once.
Great info Dave, very informative, thanks
That's a good idea brother! just go onto a army surplus site.
Great video, keep them coming please!
Fabulous info dave! Respect from jax, fl.
dave when i was in high school we had a ROTC program i was in and we used to pull targets every year for extra money to support our rifle team at black canyon range in AZ we would camp out and i remember being given what they called a half shelter i carried one half and my buddy carried the other its been a long time ago but i do remember they did pretty well for what they were do you think that would be an option for prehaps a cheap army surplus if you can find it ?