Omg when they were talking about Female friendships Blair and Serena were the first to spring to my mind and this was still when Sarah was talking do before Victoria 😂 so I guess your childhood does stick with you
I enjoyed this panel, except I notice something strange that women seem to say a lot: These panelists insinuate a few times that it's outside entities forcing women to not trust other women. I find this a bogus talking point that makes women feel good. More often then not it's just women competing; it's natural biology. Women naturally get suspicious. Whereas guys seem to be clannish and bro-buddies until they meet a guy they have to lock horns with. But no one is forcing women not to make friends.
I enjoyed the panel too. I can see where you can coming from, and I sort of agree with you. But i just really blame society and social media more. More often then not, in movies/tv shows, females tend to fight over the hot and muscular popular guy, where one girl is the super hot, popular cheerleader who would do "anything", and other girl is a straight A nerd with glasses but still pretty with one friend (and they are depicted as contrast to one another). And so the girls bud heads and play nasty pranks on each other, to make the other look like a fool in front of the hot guy, and it implies immediately that women naturally don't trust each other, which its not true. I have seen gals become friends just as fast as guys seemed to do, myself being one of them. Society just tend to exaggerate competition between females. But I agree with that the panelists insinuate that is it outside entities that make women not trust other women, which may or may not be true in some cases, or the cases of their books. But I agree that it is bogus, that they imply that it is ALWAYS an outside cause.
guys look at the tension between sarah and susan if you know what i mean...their rift in their frinedship like!! it's so cringy and painful to watch im so sad for them
Susan has a thread on twitter where she discusses learning to recognize toxic people and having to stand up to a bully. She also talked about why it’s harmful to normalize toxic masculinity, and how authors with larger platforms should learn from critiques and then use those platforms to speak up. This was around the time that Sarah went awol on twitter and basically refused to acknowledge all the criticism she got on the problematic aspects of her books (lack of diversity, toxic masculinity, etc.). Susan has always been pretty outspoken about these kinds of things while Sarah’s the complete opposite, and that’s probably what ultimately did it for them, and for a lot of Sarah’s author friendships too. If you check online, you’ll see that a lot of authors who used to follow Sarah on social media have since stopped following her.
Saint Boot while I do agree, in the case of SJM, I do think toxic masculinity is a big issue for her. The whole mating bond, the obsession with ‘males’, the growling... basically all of it.
@@charley_warlzz In her most recent novels she had worked more to include diversity. I really enjoyed Tower of Dawn in which the majority of the characters are dark skinned. (Spoiler) I also did appreciate how Fenrys choose to keep his scars, which come dear to my heart as many people do pay hundreds of thousands to heal facial scars. I did appreciate these aspects of her recent novels, but she does need to work on that possesive male crap.
@@aa.a.9359 I didn't mention representation, but on that point, she really isn't working enough. The way she treats her 'minority' characters is horrible. All the poc die for the white people, bar Lucien (so far) who was retconned anyway and, post-retcon, treated awfully, the whole thing with the thirteen dying was bad The way she treats her lgbt+ characters is awful, and I stand by the fact that she originally never meant to include them (hence the mating bond that apparently exists in both worlds) but had to add some in because of hate And on TOD specifically: The way she treats Chaol and his disability is incredibly insulting (and then, ofc, he gets magically healed anyway), it's good that she included POC characters, but only having them in one book where they aren't treated horribly isn't something we should be praising her for. A lot of the culture for the southern continent is taken straight from the dothraki, a la GRRM, which isn't surprising given her consistent problems with plagiarism, the culture is meant to be based off the mongolian culture but is a mismatch of places that were never involved in that (especially europe and egypt), and theres that whole thing with servents apparently having ""consensual"" sex with their masters, which is called out and excused within the text, when it really shouldn't be. That's rape. The masters are in a position of power, the servents cannot consent. It shouldn't be a widespread thing. And as for her getting better? In KoA, Aelin flat out states that she wants to be a coloniser. its treated as a badass and powerful moment. its not. (and lbr, diversity isnt her only problem.)
Susan seems so sad and uncomfortable when Sarah talks. I feel sad thinking about how much of a drift happened between them, I hope they rekindle their friendship in the future,
HA! And Alexandra Bracken, Susan Dennard and Victoria Aveyard aren't even friends with Sarah J. Maas anymore because Sarah is a a jealous mean girl. They don't even follow her anymore. I think Alex does but the other two don't.
Ana Clara Freitas To put it frank Sarah J Maas is a bitch. Like I was a huge fan of her books but then I found out what she did to Susan and that like she was just terrible to her and then mixed with that her writing and all it’s issues
@@MissLottylily yea they were great friends until susan became a nyt bestselling author and sjm has done the same with a lot of other ya authors as well. it's like she picks up new unpopular authors to be besties with then hates to share the spotlight when they become big
I feel so bad for Susan. You can tell she's tearing up when Sarah J Maas talks. Makes me want to return my TOG books honestly based off what I've heard about SJM.
Back in the day you knew what a friend truly meant, we need to redefine what a friend means not what they can do for me but how we can help one another
I like that they did this panel but why is SJM here? She didn't establish any strong female friendships until the 2 books that just came out in the last...like, 6 months (as of when this vid went up). Also the movie Willow *does* pass the Bechdel test. The queen of the faeries has a conversation with Ellura Dannon, *and* Sorcha and her mother talk about things not relevant to dudes. And Sorcha wasn't under a love potion *ever* and Mad Mardigan didn't get with her under the influence of a potion, either...??? And the women are islands in Lord of the Rings, books and movies. LotR is pretty sexist.
In Sarah's Throne of Glass series there's a really significant female friendship in the first two books that set the scene for much of the story that follows. (Those books were published in 2012 and 2013.)
Ms. Chim If you're talking about Nehemia and Calaena, I agree their *relationship* sets the plots for the books, but I wouldn't consider that a friendship. There's too much contempt on Nehemia's part and too much of "Nehemia is a tool" (I mean a tool as in a thing you use to accomplish something, not a tool like a bad person). Nehemia isn't Calaena's friend; Calaena thinks she is, but she isn't really. Nehemia is using her. Their entire relationship is based on lies that never get sussed out. I've read every book Sarah hasn't written so I already know this. Compare the Nehemia/Calaena friendship to, say, Manon and Asterin or Feyre/Mor/Amren. But those relationships weren't established until quite recently. One of the biggest complaints against Sarah's works is the inherent prejudice against women she shows by not having any strong female relationships between her main character and other women unless they're negative. I will say she surprised me with Nesta/Feyre but it still held too much of the "all other girls except me suck" attitude from her other, earlier books.
+Cathryn Martin well, Celaena and Nehemiah were obviously very close, and Celaena did not think she was better that Nehemiah. Celaena volunteers to teach Nehemiah her language, and accepts Nehemiah's staff in the last fight of the competition. They hang out in the early mornings while Fleetfoot runs around, and Celaena tells Nehemia about her relationship with Chaol. Celaena is very haughty and arrogant, but realizes early on that Nehemia is a strong woman who was worth befriending.
Sylvia Chen You misread my comment. I didn't say *Calaena* thinks she's better than Nehemia (although Calaena thinks for a long time she is better than every other female in the series). *Nehemia* thinks she's better than Calaena. There is too much contempt in Nehemia toward Calaena for a healthy friendship. Also, they're not *actually* that close. Compared to how close each of them is with *other* people, yes, they're close. But compare Calaena's relationship to Nehemia with her relationship with, say, Rowan or Aedion or Lysandra in Queen of Shadows. What she had with Nehemia is nothing. They're acquaintances with a common goal of hating the Douche-King, but the relationship is very shallow and not very well written. Which is understandable - it's SJM's first book - but that's why I'm wondering what she's doing on this panel when other YA authors have done a better job with female friendships.
+Cathryn Martin what's different about Celaena/Lysandra's relationship vs. Celaena/Nehemia? The girls talk to each other about their lives and empower each other. Nehemia has her faults, but she is also encouraging, gentle, and strong. Keep in mind, Celaena is fae and therefore has a primal side that connects her with Lysandra, Aedion, and Rowan. As for Aedion, he and Celaena grew up together, so naturally they're close. Celaena/Rowan are Carranam. They're connected on a totally different level than Celaena/Nehemia. So no, Celaena is not as close to Nehemia as she is with other characters, but they still have a friendship that empowers both women through the first and second books.
This is old but Batman is nothing like Rey. Batman had a decade of training all over the world to have the skills he has. Rey picks up a lightsaber for maybe the second time in her life and fights competently against a highly trained combatant. Not the same at all.
Rey grew up in a hostile planet and learning to fight was part of her life since she was a child and it meant her survival was dependant on it. So this argument is not only old, it can fuck off.
They are all so freaking pretty like omg
For reals.
OMG IKR LIKE WOW
I love this! They're all amazing.
Omg when they were talking about Female friendships Blair and Serena were the first to spring to my mind and this was still when Sarah was talking do before Victoria 😂 so I guess your childhood does stick with you
I enjoyed this panel, except I notice something strange that women seem to say a lot: These panelists insinuate a few times that it's outside entities forcing women to not trust other women. I find this a bogus talking point that makes women feel good. More often then not it's just women competing; it's natural biology. Women naturally get suspicious. Whereas guys seem to be clannish and bro-buddies until they meet a guy they have to lock horns with. But no one is forcing women not to make friends.
I enjoyed the panel too.
I can see where you can coming from, and I sort of agree with you. But i just really blame society and social media more. More often then not, in movies/tv shows, females tend to fight over the hot and muscular popular guy, where one girl is the super hot, popular cheerleader who would do "anything", and other girl is a straight A nerd with glasses but still pretty with one friend (and they are depicted as contrast to one another). And so the girls bud heads and play nasty pranks on each other, to make the other look like a fool in front of the hot guy, and it implies immediately that women naturally don't trust each other, which its not true. I have seen gals become friends just as fast as guys seemed to do, myself being one of them. Society just tend to exaggerate competition between females.
But I agree with that the panelists insinuate that is it outside entities that make women not trust other women, which may or may not be true in some cases, or the cases of their books. But I agree that it is bogus, that they imply that it is ALWAYS an outside cause.
Fever-Blade smh you completely missed the point
guys look at the tension between sarah and susan if you know what i mean...their rift in their frinedship like!! it's so cringy and painful to watch im so sad for them
Susan has a thread on twitter where she discusses learning to recognize toxic people and having to stand up to a bully. She also talked about why it’s harmful to normalize toxic masculinity, and how authors with larger platforms should learn from critiques and then use those platforms to speak up. This was around the time that Sarah went awol on twitter and basically refused to acknowledge all the criticism she got on the problematic aspects of her books (lack of diversity, toxic masculinity, etc.).
Susan has always been pretty outspoken about these kinds of things while Sarah’s the complete opposite, and that’s probably what ultimately did it for them, and for a lot of Sarah’s author friendships too. If you check online, you’ll see that a lot of authors who used to follow Sarah on social media have since stopped following her.
Saint Boot while I do agree, in the case of SJM, I do think toxic masculinity is a big issue for her. The whole mating bond, the obsession with ‘males’, the growling... basically all of it.
@@charley_warlzz In her most recent novels she had worked more to include diversity. I really enjoyed Tower of Dawn in which the majority of the characters are dark skinned. (Spoiler) I also did appreciate how Fenrys choose to keep his scars, which come dear to my heart as many people do pay hundreds of thousands to heal facial scars. I did appreciate these aspects of her recent novels, but she does need to work on that possesive male crap.
@@aa.a.9359 I didn't mention representation, but on that point, she really isn't working enough. The way she treats her 'minority' characters is horrible. All the poc die for the white people, bar Lucien (so far) who was retconned anyway and, post-retcon, treated awfully,
the whole thing with the thirteen dying was bad
The way she treats her lgbt+ characters is awful, and I stand by the fact that she originally never meant to include them (hence the mating bond that apparently exists in both worlds) but had to add some in because of hate
And on TOD specifically: The way she treats Chaol and his disability is incredibly insulting (and then, ofc, he gets magically healed anyway), it's good that she included POC characters, but only having them in one book where they aren't treated horribly isn't something we should be praising her for. A lot of the culture for the southern continent is taken straight from the dothraki, a la GRRM, which isn't surprising given her consistent problems with plagiarism, the culture is meant to be based off the mongolian culture but is a mismatch of places that were never involved in that (especially europe and egypt), and theres that whole thing with servents apparently having ""consensual"" sex with their masters, which is called out and excused within the text, when it really shouldn't be. That's rape. The masters are in a position of power, the servents cannot consent. It shouldn't be a widespread thing.
And as for her getting better? In KoA, Aelin flat out states that she wants to be a coloniser. its treated as a badass and powerful moment. its not.
(and lbr, diversity isnt her only problem.)
Susan seems so sad and uncomfortable when Sarah talks. I feel sad thinking about how much of a drift happened between them, I hope they rekindle their friendship in the future,
Victoria is just such a chill and wholesome person. So sad that Red Queen wasn’t everything I wanted it to be, but am so exited to read Realm Breaker🤩
It's crazy to think about that Victoria prefers focusing on world building when there's none in her books :(
lmaooooo pls
they mispelled Sarah's last name.
I know! Who made those name tags??
Huh, hadn't noticed that until you mentioned it.
rip headphone users.
Tina B thanks I got so scared I had to have my back to a wall because I felt someone one is going to jump on me
I'm so late, but what happened between Susan and Sarah?? Lol
lol I watched this actually happen . . from a distance
loved this video! if i were sarah j maas, i'd be pissed that they misspelled my last name on the name card!
10:51 sara is amazing I love her
I was there!
This means the world to me seeing these women that I look up to talk about this topic that I'm so passionate about warms my heart
4 Queens, this is epic!
I love all of these ladies
I love all of these ladies. :)
HA! And Alexandra Bracken, Susan Dennard and Victoria Aveyard aren't even friends with Sarah J. Maas anymore because Sarah is a a jealous mean girl. They don't even follow her anymore. I think Alex does but the other two don't.
Wait what? What happened between them? Sarah J Maas is my favourite author on that panel!
Madeline Palmer She really shouldn’t be your favorite but she’s a twit to keep it simple
Why?? What happened??
Ana Clara Freitas To put it frank Sarah J Maas is a bitch. Like I was a huge fan of her books but then I found out what she did to Susan and that like she was just terrible to her and then mixed with that her writing and all it’s issues
@@vp568 What did she do to Susan? I do enjoy reading her novels, even when I notice their flaws. But she seems nice and friendly from her interviews.
Err . That's not the Bechdel test. Two *named* women need to talk to each other about something other than a man.
She clearly knows what the test is. Give her a break
Does anyone know what happened between Sarah and Susan??
Mikayla Elmashni apparently sarah was jealous when susan became a nyt bestselling author but I'm not certain as to exactly what happened...
Oh okay, thanks for the answer. That's heartbreaking though. Their friendship was goals.
How do you know that?
F Akter just look up Susan denard and sarah j maas reddit
@@MissLottylily yea they were great friends until susan became a nyt bestselling author and sjm has done the same with a lot of other ya authors as well. it's like she picks up new unpopular authors to be besties with then hates to share the spotlight when they become big
I feel so bad for Susan. You can tell she's tearing up when Sarah J Maas talks. Makes me want to return my TOG books honestly based off what I've heard about SJM.
Notlindz what happened between them?
Notlindz I agree!!
I love how that misspell Sarah J. Maas's name wrong
Whaat? I thought this was going to be about my little pony! :O
In a way, aren't ALL panels about My Little Pony?
Susan and Sarah seem so tense. Actually Susan seems very tense. The looks she gives the othey girls when they talk seems very rude.
Girlfriends is something that is so needed we should embrace each women pages we all have beautiful stories
Haven't read the book enjoying the conversation
Back in the day you knew what a friend truly meant, we need to redefine what a friend means not what they can do for me but how we can help one another
We use the word friendship to loosely
Friends are like what you do more me
nah, a lot of those female friendships were stupid. Daria shows one of the best female friendships I've seen on TV.
I love hearing the audience feed back,
WOW!!!!!!!
great!
I like that they did this panel but why is SJM here? She didn't establish any strong female friendships until the 2 books that just came out in the last...like, 6 months (as of when this vid went up).
Also the movie Willow *does* pass the Bechdel test. The queen of the faeries has a conversation with Ellura Dannon, *and* Sorcha and her mother talk about things not relevant to dudes. And Sorcha wasn't under a love potion *ever* and Mad Mardigan didn't get with her under the influence of a potion, either...???
And the women are islands in Lord of the Rings, books and movies. LotR is pretty sexist.
In Sarah's Throne of Glass series there's a really significant female friendship in the first two books that set the scene for much of the story that follows. (Those books were published in 2012 and 2013.)
Ms. Chim If you're talking about Nehemia and Calaena, I agree their *relationship* sets the plots for the books, but I wouldn't consider that a friendship. There's too much contempt on Nehemia's part and too much of "Nehemia is a tool" (I mean a tool as in a thing you use to accomplish something, not a tool like a bad person). Nehemia isn't Calaena's friend; Calaena thinks she is, but she isn't really. Nehemia is using her. Their entire relationship is based on lies that never get sussed out. I've read every book Sarah hasn't written so I already know this. Compare the Nehemia/Calaena friendship to, say, Manon and Asterin or Feyre/Mor/Amren. But those relationships weren't established until quite recently. One of the biggest complaints against Sarah's works is the inherent prejudice against women she shows by not having any strong female relationships between her main character and other women unless they're negative. I will say she surprised me with Nesta/Feyre but it still held too much of the "all other girls except me suck" attitude from her other, earlier books.
+Cathryn Martin well, Celaena and Nehemiah were obviously very close, and Celaena did not think she was better that Nehemiah. Celaena volunteers to teach Nehemiah her language, and accepts Nehemiah's staff in the last fight of the competition. They hang out in the early mornings while Fleetfoot runs around, and Celaena tells Nehemia about her relationship with Chaol. Celaena is very haughty and arrogant, but realizes early on that Nehemia is a strong woman who was worth befriending.
Sylvia Chen You misread my comment. I didn't say *Calaena* thinks she's better than Nehemia (although Calaena thinks for a long time she is better than every other female in the series). *Nehemia* thinks she's better than Calaena. There is too much contempt in Nehemia toward Calaena for a healthy friendship. Also, they're not *actually* that close. Compared to how close each of them is with *other* people, yes, they're close. But compare Calaena's relationship to Nehemia with her relationship with, say, Rowan or Aedion or Lysandra in Queen of Shadows. What she had with Nehemia is nothing. They're acquaintances with a common goal of hating the Douche-King, but the relationship is very shallow and not very well written. Which is understandable - it's SJM's first book - but that's why I'm wondering what she's doing on this panel when other YA authors have done a better job with female friendships.
+Cathryn Martin what's different about Celaena/Lysandra's relationship vs. Celaena/Nehemia? The girls talk to each other about their lives and empower each other. Nehemia has her faults, but she is also encouraging, gentle, and strong. Keep in mind, Celaena is fae and therefore has a primal side that connects her with Lysandra, Aedion, and Rowan. As for Aedion, he and Celaena grew up together, so naturally they're close. Celaena/Rowan are Carranam. They're connected on a totally different level than Celaena/Nehemia. So no, Celaena is not as close to Nehemia as she is with other characters, but they still have a friendship that empowers both women through the first and second books.
This is old but Batman is nothing like Rey. Batman had a decade of training all over the world to have the skills he has. Rey picks up a lightsaber for maybe the second time in her life and fights competently against a highly trained combatant. Not the same at all.
Rey grew up in a hostile planet and learning to fight was part of her life since she was a child and it meant her survival was dependant on it.
So this argument is not only old, it can fuck off.
all my models in life are here💕💕💕😱😱 I just can't believe it... I wish I was there
Absolutely 💯 idiotic adults acting like teenagers
It seems that this generation look at friendship as ownership