The issue is that both the springald and the mango are now tailor-made to counter the spear xbow combo (and to lesser extent all other infantry as well), while having no direct counters of their own, since cavalry is easy to just block off with spears and you can just push your deathball spear+siege+any third unit really into enemy cannons
I think players just need to make horsemen and flank the siege. The siege is so easy to kill if you can get to it. Having a long ranged counter to siege is a boring interaction, while having positioning and army be how you counter it is great. By all means, nerf the Mango a little, but 10 Horsemen can kill 5x their value in siege in moments.
@JorenMathews yeah, but braced spears can block them off so you can't really path through. Basically spears counter cav and the siege counters everything else
the problem with flanking with cavalry are, you're dedicating chunk of your pop space to not participating the main battle for considerable amount of time, and by the time you arrived, your main army might had been demolished
Honestly, the only issue is the imp upgrade. Castle age mangos are pretty mediocre. I think they should either remove the fourth rock or the increased range the upgrade provides.
So here's my question, how do you actually change siege now? I like what the Mango is in the late game it's just hard to crack in a death star without a ranged way to deal with it. Do we make siege do more damage to siege?
Springalds were the ultimate anti-mangonel before. But they were a bit TOO good at killing siege, and they ended up being the only unit that mattered VS siege. Reverting the changes, but partially, could be a good compromise between old meta and new meta. Maybe even change that Springald bonus from "VS all siege" to "VS mangonel" specifically. Sire, it's not the most "realistic" notion. But if that makes the game most fun, maybe it doesn't matter.
Maybe springalds could get a bonus specifically VS mangonels, rather than "VS all siege", like it was the case before. Springalds now are a bit too niche, so improving their utility without going back to the previous state of "only they matter in a siege war" seems like a good compromise to me.
Yeah the problem with the old patch was that the springal killed treb and bombard, so you could camp under castle and defenses. NOw mangolnnel are too strong. It could be huge that the springal be only usefull vs mangonnels
Although i prefer this meta over the prior. nothing like having my 30 archers pushed by a single mangonel or my siege push stopped by one springald. But i think there is still work to be done, current mass mangos have no counter, you can only outmicro them with horseman and that requires a lot of finesse most of us do not have. Personally i believe siege in general is still too chunky. You get 5 units on a springald and they barely do any damage. I think melee units should have extra damage against siege and villagers even more since they throw a torch every full moon. Adding friendly fire would work too, but i never liked that in aoe2 for onager play
i think only springalds change was a s*it.....springalds need to be back, ballanced but back....other changes like mangonels hps/armor reduction and cavs bonus vs siege units are ok
The game is in the worst state it has ever been in due to the changes in siege. They simple need to reverse everything siege related to the way it was. And never touch siege again.
Bro what? The entire late game used to be a springald skirmish and whoever came out on top rolled through. The game never wants a mandatory unit. Aussie has casted 7/7 incredible and close games this year. This game wasn't about mangonels or siege, it was about juicy shutting down the trade then leveraging tax income from trash units.
@@condeezy12 You can have banger games with top level people and a game still be a hot mess. This seems to be lost on a lot of people. This game is a rock paper scissors game play, where Rock was removed from the game, scissors buffed up, and Paper turned from school note pad to yellow and red construction paper to counter the scissors. They nerfed farms because it was too unacceptable that a pro player could have extra food at 13 min into a game, but allowed other civs with huge eco buffs to go untouched making the eco of civs wildly unbalanced. Springalds counters Siege, and everything else counters springalds. The game was 10x more balanced last patch my friend. The dev team is absolute ******* for their decision in this lasted rework.
He probably didn't expect a dozen mangos when he made the 2 TC
The issue is that both the springald and the mango are now tailor-made to counter the spear xbow combo (and to lesser extent all other infantry as well), while having no direct counters of their own, since cavalry is easy to just block off with spears and you can just push your deathball spear+siege+any third unit really into enemy cannons
I think players just need to make horsemen and flank the siege. The siege is so easy to kill if you can get to it. Having a long ranged counter to siege is a boring interaction, while having positioning and army be how you counter it is great. By all means, nerf the Mango a little, but 10 Horsemen can kill 5x their value in siege in moments.
@JorenMathews yeah, but braced spears can block them off so you can't really path through. Basically spears counter cav and the siege counters everything else
@@GvF11 I've never seen a game where someone perfectly ringed their siege with spears. There's always a weak side.
the problem with flanking with cavalry are, you're dedicating chunk of your pop space to not participating the main battle for considerable amount of time, and by the time you arrived, your main army might had been demolished
Honestly, the only issue is the imp upgrade. Castle age mangos are pretty mediocre. I think they should either remove the fourth rock or the increased range the upgrade provides.
When you wake up in the middle of the night and you actually have water on your bedside table and your room is cold so it is cold water is S+++ tier
This was one of the best games I've watched in recent times. Superbly casted. Thank you
Post-imp zhu xi's units are so stacked it's crazy
So here's my question, how do you actually change siege now? I like what the Mango is in the late game it's just hard to crack in a death star without a ranged way to deal with it. Do we make siege do more damage to siege?
Springalds were the ultimate anti-mangonel before. But they were a bit TOO good at killing siege, and they ended up being the only unit that mattered VS siege.
Reverting the changes, but partially, could be a good compromise between old meta and new meta. Maybe even change that Springald bonus from "VS all siege" to "VS mangonel" specifically.
Sire, it's not the most "realistic" notion. But if that makes the game most fun, maybe it doesn't matter.
Maybe springalds could get a bonus specifically VS mangonels, rather than "VS all siege", like it was the case before.
Springalds now are a bit too niche, so improving their utility without going back to the previous state of "only they matter in a siege war" seems like a good compromise to me.
Yeah the problem with the old patch was that the springal killed treb and bombard, so you could camp under castle and defenses. NOw mangolnnel are too strong. It could be huge that the springal be only usefull vs mangonnels
I love these daily uploads, keep this up my guy ❤
Realistically, fox beats cat, but not today.
Although i prefer this meta over the prior. nothing like having my 30 archers pushed by a single mangonel or my siege push stopped by one springald. But i think there is still work to be done, current mass mangos have no counter, you can only outmicro them with horseman and that requires a lot of finesse most of us do not have.
Personally i believe siege in general is still too chunky. You get 5 units on a springald and they barely do any damage. I think melee units should have extra damage against siege and villagers even more since they throw a torch every full moon.
Adding friendly fire would work too, but i never liked that in aoe2 for onager play
Thank you for casting a game and not swearing
What map is this? And why do you need more than 1 TC? Ty for great content
Longbows get a lot better as anti siege unit
Love the content, can you please cast or play yourself an ffa I miss them
2 Animals and no beasts 😅
Great game
the whole siege rework was shit
i think only springalds change was a s*it.....springalds need to be back, ballanced but back....other changes like mangonels hps/armor reduction and cavs bonus vs siege units are ok
The game is in the worst state it has ever been in due to the changes in siege. They simple need to reverse everything siege related to the way it was. And never touch siege again.
Bro what? The entire late game used to be a springald skirmish and whoever came out on top rolled through. The game never wants a mandatory unit. Aussie has casted 7/7 incredible and close games this year. This game wasn't about mangonels or siege, it was about juicy shutting down the trade then leveraging tax income from trash units.
@@condeezy12 You can have banger games with top level people and a game still be a hot mess. This seems to be lost on a lot of people. This game is a rock paper scissors game play, where Rock was removed from the game, scissors buffed up, and Paper turned from school note pad to yellow and red construction paper to counter the scissors. They nerfed farms because it was too unacceptable that a pro player could have extra food at 13 min into a game, but allowed other civs with huge eco buffs to go untouched making the eco of civs wildly unbalanced.
Springalds counters Siege, and everything else counters springalds. The game was 10x more balanced last patch my friend. The dev team is absolute ******* for their decision in this lasted rework.
@@houseaccount3293 get off reddit my friend
.... worst state it's ever been in....? Can't be serious
@@yc5117 100% plus 60% bonus to to aggravation for after work game play