I'm mad about Sorabji's works. Unlike such composers as Schoenberg, Nancarrow, Finnissy, there is an infinite energy in his music. When I listen to him, sometimes I have the feeling that not one piano is playing, but a very large orchestra from another world. Also, I like unpredictable harmonic combinations in his works. That's why I like to listen to Sorabji.
You cannot compare Sorabji with Schoenberg, Nancarrow, Finnissy. They have very diverse harmonics and techniques, bringing different emotions to the listener, but my favourite will always be Sorabji. His use of harmonies just never fails to impress me, his music is always so abnormal yet so tonal, sometimes calming and sweet, sometimes aggressive and fiery.
The first time I pulled out "Opus Clavicembalisticum" from my file known as "Illegally photocopied British scores," and followed it in its entirety with John Ogdon's magisterial performance (yes, despite the muddles and mistakes) I thought "God, this music speaks faster and this pianist plays faster than my brain cells even work." When you view a pinnacle of music as a wonder of the world, awestruck in its every presence, you realize how small human beings are, even in the presence of human greatness, let alone as part of the universe.
About 15 years ago Reinier Van Houdt was going to perform the Piano Symphony #4 in Las Vegas in what I believe was supposed to be the American premiere. I live in Salt Lake City, so I purchased a ticket and planned to drive the 4.5 hours to Vegas to see the concert and spend a few days hanging out. But the concert got canceled on short notice, and I have never yet heard any Sorabji in a live performance. I have been a Sorabji fan for going on 50 years, even when there were essentially no performances or recordings available. But I have a reasonable selection of CDs of his music now. Thanks for this post.
@@themoonfleesthroughclouds yeah first impression of 20th century composers is bad but as you listen they will be awesome. I hates Ravel before but now my god I have memorized the whole order of gaspard de la nuit and the instrumentation of bolero. And Sorabji yes I recently started but haven't had time for him, too crazy about Ravel Rn
Thank you for featuring my video! Though, perhaps it's nice to have a different perspective on things in terms of "difficulty". For me, I find that highly irregular polyrhythms, sometimes with significant offsets from a main beat, which are basically found on every page of Gulistan, make a piece a whole other level more difficult. This is because when the rhythm is straight (even if there are a lot of chords or a fast pace) there is a huge reduction in the complexity of figuring out the timing between hands and timing of the entire polyrhythm itself. As well, there is less challenge in maintaining the timing of the polyrhythm for every playing. So, do incorporate this into whatever model you're using to gauge difficulty, as it makes a very significant difference.
Thank you for your kind words, however, I don’t fully understand what you meant. I think we can all agree on the fact that polyrhythms are hard to play, and most of the pieces in this list has a lot of them, but the lengthy nature and extended techniques of the top pieces makes them so much harder. Also, I don’t think I have mentioned anything about the technical difficulties of the pieces in this video.
@@notmusictheory74 Sure, I'll give an example: ruclips.net/video/ojlSCDF8wiE/видео.html. As you'll see there, there is a massive 15:8 polyrhythm over many notes of different duration. It is pretty much the case that no human can time this perfectly in coordination with the left hand. Several common polyrhythms you might find in Sorabji's more aggressive works (as you listed in your videos) are 3:2, 4:3, 5:3, 5:4, 7:4, 6:5, 7:5, 8:5, 9:5, 7:6, and others of small proportion. From my experience, these are very much easily calculable in terms of timing and not too difficult to consistently execute, since they involve manageable amounts of fractional timings to keep track of. As well, when they are played in a straight tempo with little to no rubato, the timing challenge is as well unaltered in difficulty. Then, for the 15:8 polyrhythm I linked, there is pretty much no way to easily calculate the fractional timings between the hands, and much less ability to keep those timings in one's head for every note. Therefore, the only strategy I see remaining is to memorize checkpoints within the polyrhythm (like I suggest here: ruclips.net/video/ojlSCDF8wiE/видео.html) to achieve consistency. Though, even with that method, which was demonstrated with a sparse and busy pairing of the LH and RH in my instructional video, the 15:8 polyrhythm is still challenging, because both hands are simultaneously busy, some of the chords within the polyrhythm are only slightly offset in their strike time, and also, voicing, delicacy, direction, and rubato all must be applied to slightly distort the polyrhythm. So, that is what I mean by my initial comment. Does that make sense?
@@notmusictheory74 Based on the specific excerpts you've pulled from each piece you've displayed, I have knowledge that some parts of Gulistan are much harder than what you've displayed. Though, since I haven't done a thorough look through the other pieces, my ultimate suggestion is just to keep what I said in mind, as I have a feeling it might influence the ordering.
@@Musicforever60 Ok, so I've gone through the manucript of Gulistan and I can say that, yeah, it could be switched with Opus Secretum, but definitely not Sonata 3.
Sorabji is fascinating. You are more fascinating to me for bringing me this information. Most of us (if not all) here are trained musicians. I've studied and played piano for 60 years and I entertain with simpler music for a living (unlike Sorabji I'm poor). I could never investigate atonality but you people obviously do. I've finally become overwhelmed with your interests and I'm going to play with it. I'll be scrubbing some of this audio and some Lily Boulanger and then play with it in FL studio and make some fun sounds. I'm doing this because I respect these composers so much and simply want to play with them. Plus I'm locked down and bored. Thank you people for being out there, something for me to learn from. Keep going PLEASE.
I’ve been looking for a clip of the 3rd sonata of that exact part for hours yesterday and now I’ve found it. Thank you so much!! Great video, these works are fascinating!
This video should be called "The 10 Hardest Sorabji *Piano* Pieces, as I'm certain some of his works for organ are more demanding on the whole than any of the pieces presented here.
I'm interested on how the music of the first piano symphony is connected to the esoteric tradtion of Tantra since Sorabji was reserved towards program music. I've read through the score and it's majetically terrifying - or terrifyingly majestic.
Amazing video, thanks for uploading! I have two questions: 1) What can you say about difficulty of concerto per suonare da me solo? 2) Do you have any idea how Busoni piano concerto would compare to Sorabji pieces composed before OC? I.e., are there any pre-1930 pieces more difficult than the Busoni concerto (maybe sonata No. 3)? I want to make a list which covers the most difficult piano pieces at the time of them being written, starting from Bach Goldberg Variations to Sorabji OA, and 1904-1930 period is what I'm currently missing
Great to hear you're planning to do that kind of video! I will answer the questions above as: 1/ About Concerto per suonare da me solo, I believe it's not his hardest (that spot being given to Concerto 8), but still a very difficult concerto. But since I only have the sheet of that and Concerto II (5), I can only assume that its difficulty is around the level of Symphonic Nocturne or between Toccata no.1 and 2. I'm still really unsure about that, so I suggest asking another person that has a better knowledge of Sorabji than me, like Schroender. His email is in his channel description if you want to talk with him straight away. 2/ Of course, there are many, even before 1920! Sonata 1,2,3,4; Toccata 1; Variazioni e fuga triplice sopra Dies iræ per pianoforte (NOT Sequentia Cyclica); Le Jardin Parfumé; etc. You can also ask Schro about that if you're still unsure. His Symphony no.0 is also extremely difficult, though it's completed in 1931 I think it still should be counted. So that's that! I hope to watch your video soon ;)
Gotta say, after listening to Stockhausen, John Cage, and free jazz honkers for a while, Sorabji doesn't really sound all that unpleasant by comparison. He's sunshine and roses compared to Ornette Coleman's "classical" compositions, I'll say that much.
Everyone: "Islamey is hardest!" "No, Gaspard de la Nuit is hardest!" Sorabji: Cute There are "hardest" Sorabji pieces. Unbelievable. I look at all of Sorabji's work and just think "hard, all hard". Crazy to think that there are the hardest out of all of them.
Some folks from Sorabji forum claiming that symphony no. 0 is the most difficult work, an order of magnitude more difficult than OC Also saying that organ symphony no. 3 is likely the most difficult keyboard work in existence Just some interesting facts
Symphony no.0 is god damn insane indeed! I Couldn't say for sure if it's on par with SV or OA but it's probably the hardest of the piano symphonies. Organ Symphony no.3 is DEFINITELY the hardest thing ever
@@notmusictheory74 yea, just reading about this stuff in Opus Sorabjianum; Abel Sánchez-Aguilera (who also edited the symphony) believes it may be the most difficult of Sorabji's works. Would love to hear it someday, at least MIDI
Well there is. Firstly, his pieces are not unperformable, and secondly, if they are actually unperformable, still, some of his pieces are harder than the other, and thus making a rankings could more or less makes us understand more about his music. That’s just my humble opinion ;)
@@notmusictheory74 Makes sense. Sorabji works are brutally long and exhausting to play. Technically they're not harder than Finissy or some xenakis works. And I'm not including transcendental studies, but talking specifically about claviecebalium, sonatas and symphonys. Keep up doing good stuff! Impatiently waiting for new videos!
@@kotopec4978 Well, technically speaking the hardest Sorabji works are the Sonatas (especially no.3), which are sometimes even harder than Finnissy works. Transcendental Studies pales in comparison to them. Sorry, but I'm not going to post a new video very soon :( I hope you won't be bother by it.
@@notmusictheory74 they're hard in different way. Finissy structures and chaos rhythm and harmony building is very hard to learn and play confident, when sorabji is just musically and physically way harder to perform. You might be right, I'm not a good pianist). It ok, we'll wait, videos like this are truly hidden gems!
@@kotopec4978 Well, technically speaking, Finnissy pieces are (usually) much harder, but sometimes Sorabji extensive structure in his music is devilish to get right, which makes it more time consuming than Finnissy. Also, Sorabji usually don't look as chaotic because he uses many staves, while Finnissy uses only 2, which makes it looks much more chaotic. If you cramp all 6 staves in some parts of Sorabji pieces, well, it's impossible to read.
Edit: Go to the reply thread to see how crinji I was in the past xD Timestamps: 10. Gulistan 0:13 (Musicforever60) 9. Opus Secretum 2:30 (Carlo Grante) 8. Piano Sonata no.3 4:12 (1st excerpt: Ramer Davey Lee (Schroender UwU), 2nd excerpt: MIDI) 7. Symphony no.4 for solo piano 6:14 (Reinier van Houdt) 6. 100 Transcendental Studies 8:47 (Fredrik Ullén) 5. Sequentia Cyclica 10:07 (Jonathan Powell) 4. Opus Clavicembalisticum 12:28 (1st excerpt: Lucas Huisman, 2nd excerpt: Jonathan Powell) 3. Symphony no.1 (Tāntrik) for solo piano 13:43 (MIDI) 2. Symphonic Variations for Piano 14:47 (1st excerpt: Michael Habermann, 2nd excerpt: MIDI) 1. Sonata no.5 (Opus Archimagicum) 16:25 (1st excerpt: Kyle Hannenberg (Toothless toe), 2nd excerpt: Aldo Roberto Pessonalo (PianothShaveck))s!
@@notmusictheory74 no its serious the sonata 3 in raw difficultty is the hardest sorabji piece because of its inhuman stretches , chord passages and transitions , overcoming even things like sequentia or oa
@@yeetthebeet I will always say my three favourite composers are Sorabji, Messiaen and Liszt, and I always get funny looks and people asking me: “Why?” All three composers are dismissed as blind noise (Liszt less so, since at least some people have heard his later works) and Messiaen and Sorabji are severely underrated simply because someone will listen to their most famous piece for a few minutes, not like it because their ear hasn’t adjusted to it, then spam RUclips comment sections calling it: ‘not proper music’ or some shit. What a shame.
It's sad to me that you felt it necessary to put that message before the video. I'll never understand what it is about Sorabji in particular that seems to generate such ire among the anti-modern crowd. Sorabji's music, though often dissonant, is almost always tonal (very frequently including nearly or completely diatonic chords in the low-mid register to establish the primary harmonic structure, then filling the higher registers with melodies, and spicing it up with filligree), and yet I almost never see the same level of hate on videos of works by, say, Boulez or Carter. Even one of his most accessible works, “Fantaise Espagnole”, has received a fair amount of “this music is crap” comments on RUclips, despite the fact that its harmonic language could arguably by described as “spicy Ravel”. Sorabji is still a rather obscure composer, who composed thousands upon thousands of pages of music knowing full well that it would never be performed in his lifetime, or even at all… give the poor guy a break.
I think there is a reason for that: Those Sorabji haters don't even know who Boulez or Carter are. The fact that some of his music will probably not be performed at all is very sad to me. Though I know he just composes for his own pleasure, the music which he spent lots of time and effort to write down will forever be a piece of paper is almost depressing.
@@notmusictheory74 I agree, but I feel pretty optimistic. When I first discovered Sorabji's music 20 years ago, there was very little information available about him online, the only way to hear his music required one to either purchase recordings or download them illegally, and the amount of ignorance and incorrect information being shared about Sorabji and his music was rampant on music fora -- and the only context in which he was ever discussed was always related to difficulty. The most famous and widely available recording of his music was G.D. Madge's abominable performance of OC (which I was, so far as I'm aware, the first to publicly expose, providing hard evidence that he essentially improvised most of the piece). I had very little expectation of Sequentia Cyclica *ever* being performed, and definitely not during my own lifetime. When I posted my performance of Fantaisie Espagnole on RUclips 8 years ago (ruclips.net/video/xBdyq5lNn8k/видео.html), there were only a handful of Sorabji videos available. Hell, when I first found of about Sorabji, the Sorabji Archive website didn't even have a domain name! Considering how far we've come, I'm starting to believe that the idea of seeing the Messa Alta Sinfonica or Jami symphony performed in my lifetime is entirely within the realm of possibility!
@@careyhendersonvocalstudios5429 Oh, so that's you? Wow, now I'm talking with kind of a famous person in this community! After reading your comment, I'm optimistic to see the Fifth Sonata, Symphonic Variations and the full set of Piano Symphonies in my lifetime!
"symphony for solo piano" ok im gonna cry isn't a symphony supposed to be a sonata for orchestra? (so symphony for piano is just a piano sonata or whaaaat?)
Accurate version! Exactly includes all the pieces I would include if iade a list of hardest Sorabji works! I'd also like to add Fantasie Espagnol as a honourable mention :)
@@notmusictheory74 i agree, but compared to thousands of "normal" pieces it's a no, especially considering the amount of polyrhythms you(or I ) have to figure out
I think contemporary is full of shit. It just sits in an endless murk, no tonality, no resolve, I imagine its what hell is like. Wandering around a lonely wasteland endlessly trying to find an escape that will never be found. However, sorabji is different. His music has a very suble and unique tonality to it. Once, I showed Gulistan to my grandma, who had never listened to classical in her life, expecting her to make fun of it. But she loved it, she asked for me to send her the link so she could listen to it more. Listening to sorabji isn't hell, its more of an escape for introverts like me. It takes you to a place where you can think and explore parts of your brain that you haven't explored before. Went on a bit of a rant there, but basically, what I am saying is sorabji is good. 👍
This music is not about sound but about circlejerking, like a bukkake, around their technical difficulty, polyrythms and people too full of themselves, that is why I dislike this dissonance. It attracts musical snobs.
I'm mad about Sorabji's works. Unlike such composers as Schoenberg, Nancarrow, Finnissy, there is an infinite energy in his music. When I listen to him, sometimes I have the feeling that not one piano is playing, but a very large orchestra from another world. Also, I like unpredictable harmonic combinations in his works. That's why I like to listen to Sorabji.
You cannot compare Sorabji with Schoenberg, Nancarrow, Finnissy. They have very diverse harmonics and techniques, bringing different emotions to the listener, but my favourite will always be Sorabji. His use of harmonies just never fails to impress me, his music is always so abnormal yet so tonal, sometimes calming and sweet, sometimes aggressive and fiery.
The first time I pulled out "Opus Clavicembalisticum" from my file known as "Illegally photocopied British scores," and followed it in its entirety with John Ogdon's magisterial performance (yes, despite the muddles and mistakes) I thought "God, this music speaks faster and this pianist plays faster than my brain cells even work." When you view a pinnacle of music as a wonder of the world, awestruck in its every presence, you realize how small human beings are, even in the presence of human greatness, let alone as part of the universe.
About 15 years ago Reinier Van Houdt was going to perform the Piano Symphony #4 in Las Vegas in what I believe was supposed to be the American premiere. I live in Salt Lake City, so I purchased a ticket and planned to drive the 4.5 hours to Vegas to see the concert and spend a few days hanging out. But the concert got canceled on short notice, and I have never yet heard any Sorabji in a live performance. I have been a Sorabji fan for going on 50 years, even when there were essentially no performances or recordings available. But I have a reasonable selection of CDs of his music now. Thanks for this post.
i'm probable gonna get roasted for this, but more I listen to Sorabji's works his works seems to fell more tonal and more filled with emotions
There's nothing to be roasted of man, it's good that you could bring yourself to enjoy pieces like this!
Some people say Sorabji is pointless virtuosity but his music is the peak of musicality IMO.
@@themoonfleesthroughclouds yeah first impression of 20th century composers is bad but as you listen they will be awesome. I hates Ravel before but now my god I have memorized the whole order of gaspard de la nuit and the instrumentation of bolero. And Sorabji yes I recently started but haven't had time for him, too crazy about Ravel Rn
@@notmusictheory74 Thanks I'm imagining how much time will it be until iI started composing such advanced music😂probably 4 generations
@@pastichemusic3568 memorising the order of ravel GDLN isn't that hard tho cause there are only three movements
Thank you for featuring my video! Though, perhaps it's nice to have a different perspective on things in terms of "difficulty". For me, I find that highly irregular polyrhythms, sometimes with significant offsets from a main beat, which are basically found on every page of Gulistan, make a piece a whole other level more difficult. This is because when the rhythm is straight (even if there are a lot of chords or a fast pace) there is a huge reduction in the complexity of figuring out the timing between hands and timing of the entire polyrhythm itself. As well, there is less challenge in maintaining the timing of the polyrhythm for every playing. So, do incorporate this into whatever model you're using to gauge difficulty, as it makes a very significant difference.
Thank you for your kind words, however, I don’t fully understand what you meant. I think we can all agree on the fact that polyrhythms are hard to play, and most of the pieces in this list has a lot of them, but the lengthy nature and extended techniques of the top pieces makes them so much harder. Also, I don’t think I have mentioned anything about the technical difficulties of the pieces in this video.
@@notmusictheory74 Sure, I'll give an example: ruclips.net/video/ojlSCDF8wiE/видео.html. As you'll see there, there is a massive 15:8 polyrhythm over many notes of different duration. It is pretty much the case that no human can time this perfectly in coordination with the left hand. Several common polyrhythms you might find in Sorabji's more aggressive works (as you listed in your videos) are 3:2, 4:3, 5:3, 5:4, 7:4, 6:5, 7:5, 8:5, 9:5, 7:6, and others of small proportion. From my experience, these are very much easily calculable in terms of timing and not too difficult to consistently execute, since they involve manageable amounts of fractional timings to keep track of. As well, when they are played in a straight tempo with little to no rubato, the timing challenge is as well unaltered in difficulty. Then, for the 15:8 polyrhythm I linked, there is pretty much no way to easily calculate the fractional timings between the hands, and much less ability to keep those timings in one's head for every note. Therefore, the only strategy I see remaining is to memorize checkpoints within the polyrhythm (like I suggest here: ruclips.net/video/ojlSCDF8wiE/видео.html) to achieve consistency. Though, even with that method, which was demonstrated with a sparse and busy pairing of the LH and RH in my instructional video, the 15:8 polyrhythm is still challenging, because both hands are simultaneously busy, some of the chords within the polyrhythm are only slightly offset in their strike time, and also, voicing, delicacy, direction, and rubato all must be applied to slightly distort the polyrhythm. So, that is what I mean by my initial comment. Does that make sense?
@@Musicforever60 So, your suggestion is that Gulistan deserves to have a higher place in the list?
@@notmusictheory74 Based on the specific excerpts you've pulled from each piece you've displayed, I have knowledge that some parts of Gulistan are much harder than what you've displayed. Though, since I haven't done a thorough look through the other pieces, my ultimate suggestion is just to keep what I said in mind, as I have a feeling it might influence the ordering.
@@Musicforever60 Ok, so I've gone through the manucript of Gulistan and I can say that, yeah, it could be switched with Opus Secretum, but definitely not Sonata 3.
Sorabji is fascinating. You are more fascinating to me for bringing me this information. Most of us (if not all) here are trained musicians. I've studied and played piano for 60 years and I entertain with simpler music for a living (unlike Sorabji I'm poor). I could never investigate atonality but you people obviously do. I've finally become overwhelmed with your interests and I'm going to play with it. I'll be scrubbing some of this audio and some Lily Boulanger and then play with it in FL studio and make some fun sounds. I'm doing this because I respect these composers so much and simply want to play with them. Plus I'm locked down and bored. Thank you people for being out there, something for me to learn from. Keep going PLEASE.
I will! Thanks for your kind comment!
I’ve been looking for a clip of the 3rd sonata of that exact part for hours yesterday and now I’ve found it. Thank you so much!! Great video, these works are fascinating!
is there a full recording of the third sonata somwhere? i've been looking for recordings of the second and third one so long
@@stoppelhopser1848 There is and the channel owner has midi file of it, but he cannot send it for some reason
This video should be called "The 10 Hardest Sorabji *Piano* Pieces, as I'm certain some of his works for organ are more demanding on the whole than any of the pieces presented here.
yes
14:52 it is like the last movement of Chopin‘s 2nd Piano Sonata
Yes, it is!
It was directly inspired by that movement
Imagine if Ravel transcribed the first one for orchestra. It would be mind-blowing.
Unknown gem of a channel, nice
btw u put bach/sorabji fugue between the pieces, that's the piece i made the midi for xD
Hi Asriel! Didn’t know a goat underground would like Sorabji music this much.
@@notmusictheory74 discover new people everyday ig
Yes I put it in between, cuz I think it creates tension.
I'm interested on how the music of the first piano symphony is connected to the esoteric tradtion of Tantra since Sorabji was reserved towards program music. I've read through the score and it's majetically terrifying - or terrifyingly majestic.
Amazing video, thanks for uploading!
I have two questions:
1) What can you say about difficulty of concerto per suonare da me solo?
2) Do you have any idea how Busoni piano concerto would compare to Sorabji pieces composed before OC? I.e., are there any pre-1930 pieces more difficult than the Busoni concerto (maybe sonata No. 3)? I want to make a list which covers the most difficult piano pieces at the time of them being written, starting from Bach Goldberg Variations to Sorabji OA, and 1904-1930 period is what I'm currently missing
Great to hear you're planning to do that kind of video! I will answer the questions above as:
1/ About Concerto per suonare da me solo, I believe it's not his hardest (that spot being given to Concerto 8), but still a very difficult concerto. But since I only have the sheet of that and Concerto II (5), I can only assume that its difficulty is around the level of Symphonic Nocturne or between Toccata no.1 and 2. I'm still really unsure about that, so I suggest asking another person that has a better knowledge of Sorabji than me, like Schroender. His email is in his channel description if you want to talk with him straight away.
2/ Of course, there are many, even before 1920! Sonata 1,2,3,4; Toccata 1; Variazioni e fuga triplice sopra Dies iræ per pianoforte (NOT Sequentia Cyclica); Le Jardin Parfumé; etc. You can also ask Schro about that if you're still unsure. His Symphony no.0 is also extremely difficult, though it's completed in 1931 I think it still should be counted.
So that's that! I hope to watch your video soon ;)
Also, it's nice to know someone who also watches Nilered lol
hi
hi every it's me!
did you make the midi for tantrik yourself? is it possible for me to get hold of it?
Do you have a Discord? I can send it to you there
@@notmusictheory74 hsan#0950
Great video! Can you tell us which is the piece u use as a transition between the pieces?
It's Sorabji Chromatic Fantasia, the start of the Quasi-Cadenza in the end.
Gotta say, after listening to Stockhausen, John Cage, and free jazz honkers for a while, Sorabji doesn't really sound all that unpleasant by comparison.
He's sunshine and roses compared to Ornette Coleman's "classical" compositions, I'll say that much.
Is there a recording for sonata 3? I want to hear the second part.
No, not yet. But won’t be long ;)
@@notmusictheory74 yes, there is, of Yonty Solomon. Marc-André Roberge told me he listened to it in the British library.
@@notmusictheory74 how long could I ask?
@@jacekkrzywicki195 longer than i thought
Everyone: "Islamey is hardest!" "No, Gaspard de la Nuit is hardest!"
Sorabji: Cute
There are "hardest" Sorabji pieces. Unbelievable. I look at all of Sorabji's work and just think "hard, all hard". Crazy to think that there are the hardest out of all of them.
And here I was already left out lots of things for the sake of diversity. Some of his other Symphonies deserve to be in the top 3!
The most difficult work in the piano literature is "Post Partitions" by Milton Babbitt.
@@robertwalker2052 Or Hoban wtpS
@@notmusictheory74 like Second one (which is very likely gonna be my favourite lol)?
And then those people who think that Flight of bumblebee is the hardest piece 😂😂😂
what is the piece used in the transitions? sounds interesting
ruclips.net/video/YghfjNkpUmc/видео.html Here, a brilliant piece indeed
Hey what was the intro piece name? :3
Beethoven-Liszt: Symphony no.9 (1st mvt)
Can you send me the link of sonata 3 of sorabji? I am not able to find it on youtube
Even if there is one recording of it (which does not exists yet) Hinton would kill me if I send it
Some folks from Sorabji forum claiming that symphony no. 0 is the most difficult work, an order of magnitude more difficult than OC
Also saying that organ symphony no. 3 is likely the most difficult keyboard work in existence
Just some interesting facts
Symphony no.0 is god damn insane indeed! I Couldn't say for sure if it's on par with SV or OA but it's probably the hardest of the piano symphonies. Organ Symphony no.3 is DEFINITELY the hardest thing ever
@@notmusictheory74 yea, just reading about this stuff in Opus Sorabjianum; Abel Sánchez-Aguilera (who also edited the symphony) believes it may be the most difficult of Sorabji's works. Would love to hear it someday, at least MIDI
this is tame compared to his other works. Much so!
Where is the videu to you used to sonata no 3?
Hey... What's the name of the piece that serves as each transition...?
Beethoven/Liszt Symphony No.9 1st movement. It sounds like Cyprien Katsaris’s recording. The outro is Beethoven 9 4th movement.
@@KaikhosruShapurjiMedtner Oh my fucking god... Thank you so much!!!!!!!
@@KaikhosruShapurjiMedtner What timestamp for the liszt-Beethoven 1?
I'm fascinated is How the hell someone read and play them ? Wow ! 😮😮😮
Where can I listen to whole 3rd sonata recording ?
Unrecorded i think
Dissonance is a relative term. Musicians do not use it disparagingly. Keep in mind, too, that the piano is classified as a percussive instrument.
String
@@Whatismusic123 tuned percussion exists tho
@@Whatismusic123 ñ
0:31 - 0:32 reminds me of Schönberg's op.19/1 bar 6, but upon closer inspection, the chords are not as similar as I thought.
ok
Thank you for the warning I almost listened to Sorabjiiikghhshjhjhilsiiiiiieeee
sijijijijijij
Great work!
But is there any point to make top 10 hardest sorabji piano works, if he's claimed as "unperformable composer"?
Just asking
:)
Well there is. Firstly, his pieces are not unperformable, and secondly, if they are actually unperformable, still, some of his pieces are harder than the other, and thus making a rankings could more or less makes us understand more about his music. That’s just my humble opinion ;)
@@notmusictheory74 Makes sense. Sorabji works are brutally long and exhausting to play. Technically they're not harder than Finissy or some xenakis works. And I'm not including transcendental studies, but talking specifically about claviecebalium, sonatas and symphonys.
Keep up doing good stuff!
Impatiently waiting for new videos!
@@kotopec4978 Well, technically speaking the hardest Sorabji works are the Sonatas (especially no.3), which are sometimes even harder than Finnissy works. Transcendental Studies pales in comparison to them.
Sorry, but I'm not going to post a new video very soon :( I hope you won't be bother by it.
@@notmusictheory74 they're hard in different way. Finissy structures and chaos rhythm and harmony building is very hard to learn and play confident, when sorabji is just musically and physically way harder to perform. You might be right, I'm not a good pianist).
It ok, we'll wait, videos like this are truly hidden gems!
@@kotopec4978 Well, technically speaking, Finnissy pieces are (usually) much harder, but sometimes Sorabji extensive structure in his music is devilish to get right, which makes it more time consuming than Finnissy. Also, Sorabji usually don't look as chaotic because he uses many staves, while Finnissy uses only 2, which makes it looks much more chaotic. If you cramp all 6 staves in some parts of Sorabji pieces, well, it's impossible to read.
Why aren’t they’re any score videos of piano sonata no.1 on RUclips?
Copyright
Oh
Edit: Go to the reply thread to see how crinji I was in the past xD
Timestamps:
10. Gulistan 0:13 (Musicforever60)
9. Opus Secretum 2:30 (Carlo Grante)
8. Piano Sonata no.3 4:12 (1st excerpt: Ramer Davey Lee (Schroender UwU), 2nd excerpt: MIDI)
7. Symphony no.4 for solo piano 6:14 (Reinier van Houdt)
6. 100 Transcendental Studies 8:47 (Fredrik Ullén)
5. Sequentia Cyclica 10:07 (Jonathan Powell)
4. Opus Clavicembalisticum 12:28 (1st excerpt: Lucas Huisman, 2nd excerpt: Jonathan Powell)
3. Symphony no.1 (Tāntrik) for solo piano 13:43 (MIDI)
2. Symphonic Variations for Piano 14:47 (1st excerpt: Michael Habermann, 2nd excerpt: MIDI)
1. Sonata no.5 (Opus Archimagicum) 16:25 (1st excerpt: Kyle Hannenberg (Toothless toe), 2nd excerpt: Aldo Roberto Pessonalo (PianothShaveck))s!
Sonata 3 should be top 1 and oc should be above oa also gulistan doesnt quite fir this top imo
@@lucaslorentz lol that's funny
@@notmusictheory74 ?
@@lucaslorentz wait I thought this was a joke?
@@notmusictheory74 no its serious the sonata 3 in raw difficultty is the hardest sorabji piece because of its inhuman stretches , chord passages and transitions , overcoming even things like sequentia or oa
Hi, we will lok at 10 hardest sorabji peaces.
Every of them.
And this is end of video good by.
No
Ok
@@notmusictheory74 u
@@notmusictheory74 why does this translate to Russian in English from English I’m confused
ýe
The
Toxic arguments are life.
@@notmusictheory74 Oh my... nice
try harder bro
@@dhu2056 no
I can see why you’d have to be comfortable with them with such a username. 12-TET is lame? 12 is an awesome number!
@@happypiano4810 72 better
5:13 That single page has 1,465 notes lol
god Sorabji was a genius! i see anti-sorabji comments on youtube all the time and i'll never understand why.
his harmonic language at first glance must be why which. is why I always think one shouldn't judge a composer by a few famous pieces
@@yeetthebeet I will always say my three favourite composers are Sorabji, Messiaen and Liszt, and I always get funny looks and people asking me: “Why?” All three composers are dismissed as blind noise (Liszt less so, since at least some people have heard his later works) and Messiaen and Sorabji are severely underrated simply because someone will listen to their most famous piece for a few minutes, not like it because their ear hasn’t adjusted to it, then spam RUclips comment sections calling it: ‘not proper music’ or some shit. What a shame.
@@themoonfleesthroughclouds vingt regards is honestly one of the greatest modernist pieces of the 20th century
@@yeetthebeet the greatest piano piece of all time. no contest.
@@yeetthebeet probably the greatest piano work of the 20th century. messiaen truly had an ear for writing music like no other.
Great list!
Thanks, Liszt! You like his music too?
@@notmusictheory74 Yes
@@Palermo.340 Pls play every single Sorabji piece
@@notmusictheory74 I will do it
No...
Great liszt
Вот это да! У Сорабджи "Трансцендентные этюды" похлеще чем у самого Листа!
quite good...
when 3rd sonata recording will be out?
no idea
@@notmusictheory74 aw :(
@@notmusictheory74 do you have midi file of it? If yes could I aquire it?
@@jacekkrzywicki195 i do, but i cant give you sorry
@@notmusictheory74 oh ok
Its probably called archimagicum because you need arch magic to play it
😂
It feels impressionist to me
Not unpleasant at all
1:31 - 1:41 nostalgy hit hard here
It's sad to me that you felt it necessary to put that message before the video. I'll never understand what it is about Sorabji in particular that seems to generate such ire among the anti-modern crowd. Sorabji's music, though often dissonant, is almost always tonal (very frequently including nearly or completely diatonic chords in the low-mid register to establish the primary harmonic structure, then filling the higher registers with melodies, and spicing it up with filligree), and yet I almost never see the same level of hate on videos of works by, say, Boulez or Carter. Even one of his most accessible works, “Fantaise Espagnole”, has received a fair amount of “this music is crap” comments on RUclips, despite the fact that its harmonic language could arguably by described as “spicy Ravel”. Sorabji is still a rather obscure composer, who composed thousands upon thousands of pages of music knowing full well that it would never be performed in his lifetime, or even at all… give the poor guy a break.
I think there is a reason for that: Those Sorabji haters don't even know who Boulez or Carter are. The fact that some of his music will probably not be performed at all is very sad to me. Though I know he just composes for his own pleasure, the music which he spent lots of time and effort to write down will forever be a piece of paper is almost depressing.
@@notmusictheory74 I agree, but I feel pretty optimistic. When I first discovered Sorabji's music 20 years ago, there was very little information available about him online, the only way to hear his music required one to either purchase recordings or download them illegally, and the amount of ignorance and incorrect information being shared about Sorabji and his music was rampant on music fora -- and the only context in which he was ever discussed was always related to difficulty. The most famous and widely available recording of his music was G.D. Madge's abominable performance of OC (which I was, so far as I'm aware, the first to publicly expose, providing hard evidence that he essentially improvised most of the piece). I had very little expectation of Sequentia Cyclica *ever* being performed, and definitely not during my own lifetime. When I posted my performance of Fantaisie Espagnole on RUclips 8 years ago (ruclips.net/video/xBdyq5lNn8k/видео.html), there were only a handful of Sorabji videos available. Hell, when I first found of about Sorabji, the Sorabji Archive website didn't even have a domain name! Considering how far we've come, I'm starting to believe that the idea of seeing the Messa Alta Sinfonica or Jami symphony performed in my lifetime is entirely within the realm of possibility!
@@careyhendersonvocalstudios5429 Oh, so that's you? Wow, now I'm talking with kind of a famous person in this community! After reading your comment, I'm optimistic to see the Fifth Sonata, Symphonic Variations and the full set of Piano Symphonies in my lifetime!
@@notmusictheory74 Yup, that’s me - the man, the myth, the legend. 😆
@@careyhendersonvocalstudios5429 indeed sorabji has many underrated "tonal" (i suppose less dissonant) works such as his 34th etude
"symphony for solo piano" ok im gonna cry isn't a symphony supposed to be a sonata for orchestra? (so symphony for piano is just a piano sonata or whaaaat?)
I think he's trying to imitate an entire orchestra in these Symphonies. They aren't just Sonatas because these 2 are quite different
do you listen to yeat
LISTEN TO SEQUENTIA CYCLICA 25 ITS GREAT
lol I know, thanks
It was Sorabji, and the others…
Accurate version! Exactly includes all the pieces I would include if iade a list of hardest Sorabji works! I'd also like to add Fantasie Espagnol as a honourable mention :)
Well, I would rather put Symphonic Nocturne and other Piano Symphonies
@@notmusictheory74 yeah they are worthy of coming in too
*I made (typo in the comment rip)
@Felis Skalkotris Sorabjitus yeah it's true tho
There are only 7 movements in OA
Sure. Can't fix it sadly
The best I can manage is his Rhapsody Espagnole :(
You can manage that? That's insane!
@@notmusictheory74 Yeah that's good but ofc there are people who's going to be learning his Piano Sonatas in 2 days lmao
@@SCRIABINIST Who the heck learn the freaking Sonata in a day?
@@notmusictheory74 I think I made an overexageration but someone like Musicforever 60 would probably do it
@@notmusictheory74 lol probably jonathan powell or hamelin
"Even though it's quite short". Yeah, like 35 minutes short
compared to 10 hours yes
@@notmusictheory74 i agree, but compared to thousands of "normal" pieces it's a no, especially considering the amount of polyrhythms you(or I ) have to figure out
@@950name Well tbf you're in a Sorabji list
the in-between are so tedious
Yeah
The hardest imo is to understand his music.
True. Tbh I actually have a problem with that the first time listening to him too, but I'm enjoying it now
cla
i wonder what caleb thinks of this video lol
well, ask him
Ok
Tantrik is easy AF
no
How can a human play those pieces ?
Sheer will and determination is the key
A la pelota
No entiendo but it sounds good
@@Dylonely42 es como una expresion de sorpresa... ¡A la pelota, que dificiles que son!
Balls
@@neto6517 shut
I think contemporary is full of shit. It just sits in an endless murk, no tonality, no resolve, I imagine its what hell is like. Wandering around a lonely wasteland endlessly trying to find an escape that will never be found.
However, sorabji is different. His music has a very suble and unique tonality to it. Once, I showed Gulistan to my grandma, who had never listened to classical in her life, expecting her to make fun of it. But she loved it, she asked for me to send her the link so she could listen to it more.
Listening to sorabji isn't hell, its more of an escape for introverts like me. It takes you to a place where you can think and explore parts of your brain that you haven't explored before.
Went on a bit of a rant there, but basically, what I am saying is sorabji is good. 👍
This music is not about sound but about circlejerking, like a bukkake, around their technical difficulty, polyrythms and people too full of themselves, that is why I dislike this dissonance. It attracts musical snobs.
Ok, entirely subjective. But I wouldn’t call the people that like this music “musical snobs”. That’s quite offensive if you ask me
@@notmusictheory74 shh, illiterate snowflakes like this one believe only they have the right to feel offended lol
Honestly, you sound like a musical snob rn
So if the community surrounding this music wasn't full of themselves, you would like this music? Very stupid reason to dislike something.
Now that I have heard these snippets once its time to go to another composer