Caste system is not a part of ancient Vedic religion. It should not be confused with Varnashram. It is a problem that started after Mlecchas started to settle in Aryavarta post-Mahabharata. Since then it has muted and later it was just about one group of people competing with another group of people for limited resources and basic essentials which were snatched away by the bullies/rulers/slave traders. When one is trying to survive, any excuse becomes acceptable. There have been cases of Brahmins being forced to eat meat to survive and Shudra orphans who were adopted by Brahmins were never told about their origins so grew up like other Brahmins and vice versa. People should just read records of Jewish holocaust and Nazi torture to get some idea as to what could have happened in ancient India under Islamic and other invasions. Even Ashoka was a tyrant because he was NOT an Arya but a Mleccha ruler. Vedic Aryans had gradually dwindled because they did not believe in having large families and also, being an Aryan is about being very noble and living according to the strict Vedic system which is not everyone's cup of tea. Varna is Va (vayu) + arn (river of energy). A person's position in varnashram depending on the extent to which they had developed their spirituality and were successful in doing their sattvic karmas. Please refer to this shloka containing the word arna and its meaning: mahO arNa: Sarasvathi prachEthayathi kEthunA dhiyO visvA virAjathi (Meaning ): Sarasvathi manifests by Her acts as a mighty river and (in Her own form ) enlightens all understandings (provides illuminating meanings ).
then why are people forbidden to drink water from a pond. or why are they lynched or burned? or why till today, lower caste people, in massive numbers live outsider the village perimeter in 80% of south and north indian villages. The word "Varna" itself means color. Hence the evil of apartheid that has lasted 1000 plus years. Manu, the great father or vedic knowledge said that Women are equal to cows. The caste system is India's biggest shame and darkness. It now exists in Christianity, Sikhism and Muslims too.
Samrat Bee Thats exactly what I'm trying to explain. Hindu(Vedic) dharma has been around since many zillion centuries. Theories have been distorted gradually and selfish people have twisted meanings for evil gains. For example, when a doctor or lawyer does malpractice one blames them not the science.(in general). Varna does not mean color to be taken literally. If it was so its illogical because in India people have always been of many shades. Arjuna and Draupadi were dark, Yudhisthir a bit fair etc. Manu is not great father. Manu is short for Manvantar implying that period in time in which certain behaviours will be seen. They were predicting the future which is actually happening today. They were not putting down laws. Many interpretations are wrong.
Kev A Zillions of centuries or perhaps 2500 odd years. There were many tribes, societies, practices and ideologies prior to that as well. Academic and Linguist of sankrit scriptures unanimously refer it to as "The word appears in the Rigveda, where it means "colour, outward appearance, exterior, form, figure or shape" - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varna_(Hinduism) Based on that very idea - the past 1000 odd years we have the 4 Varnas. The Castes. The abominable apartheid within the Varnas - that is visible at almost every facet of Hindu society in India. From the prime minister to the beggar on the street. The laws put down or up 2000 years ago don't matter. Its how people suffer and remain without rights that does. We wish to criminalize the caste system and further to expose the true function of the Vedas and Varnas.
India could not speak freely right from the time the PANGOLIN*s assumed power in 1947. Jabberlal Neckscrew used to get into the well of the house and glare at the Parliamentarians to brow beat them into silence. Jabberlal's daughter, Priyadarshini Khan, after she lost her case to Shankaracharya Keshavaananda Bharathi (Thanks to the only worthy Supreme Court Justice India ever had, the Most Honourable Hans Raj Khanna) and, thereby, her bid to turn India into a Stalinist Totalitarian State, started collecting files of criminal wrong doing by judges, policemen, bureaucrats, politicians, journalists, historians, litterateurs and others into a High Command that thereafter ran Indian by black mail. In my opinion, this is the principal reason why the BJP Government is stymied from fulfilling its mandate. The Khangress still runs the rusted, incompetent and corrupt Iron Frame of India and it is still their PANGOLIN* Constitution and laws that run India. I remember being locked up with the Chief Reporter (V.N.Subba Road) and the Editor in the Indian Express office, Bangalore in 1975 by Priyadarshini Khan's Police. I was a College student then and had gone to discuss a series of youth interest articles that I was doing for the Express on music, theater, art and so on. Priyadarshini Khan's police also murdered my friend Snehalatha Reddy in Police custody during the same "Emergency") Such horrors would never have been visited on the Historians and other camp followers of the Khangress. *Note: PANGOLIN: An enemy of India who believes in inequality under law, exceptions to the rule of law and persecution of some for the benefit of others. At present, the sole purpose of the Indian Republic, Constitutional or otherwise, is to pamper and provide for certain constitutionally preferred sections of society who the British found useful to hold and exploit India at the cost of those who the British hated and persecuted. The Pangolin is a creature that is unique to India and feeds on ants that are known in nature to be industrious and hard working if not quite as fruitful as bees who flee to better climes. (PANGOLIN is an acronym for the Periyar-Ambedkar-Nehru-Gandhi-Other (alien) Religions-Communist Consensus that usurped the British Mantle and has worn it with elan to loot, plunder, and rape India since 1921 and re write History and laws to their exclusive benefit since 1947)
Some good points made. Thanks Ramachandra Guha for this talk always refreshing listening to him.
we are proud on such a brilliant mind person ,pls always discuss on different topic so people can have a better approach to things
I compare Guha's way of explanation to be my professor's . 🌿🌿
Hindus should concentrate on science and technology, unlike some religious groups.
Caste system is not a part of ancient Vedic religion. It should not be confused with Varnashram. It is a problem that started after Mlecchas started to settle in Aryavarta post-Mahabharata. Since then it has muted and later it was just about one group of people competing with another group of people for limited resources and basic essentials which were snatched away by the bullies/rulers/slave traders. When one is trying to survive, any excuse becomes acceptable. There have been cases of Brahmins being forced to eat meat to survive and Shudra orphans who were adopted by Brahmins were never told about their origins so grew up like other Brahmins and vice versa. People should just read records of Jewish holocaust and Nazi torture to get some idea as to what could have happened in ancient India under Islamic and other invasions. Even Ashoka was a tyrant because he was NOT an Arya but a Mleccha ruler. Vedic Aryans had gradually dwindled because they did not believe in having large families and also, being an Aryan is about being very noble and living according to the strict Vedic system which is not everyone's cup of tea.
Varna is Va (vayu) + arn (river of energy). A person's position in varnashram depending on the extent to which they had developed their spirituality and were successful in doing their sattvic karmas. Please refer to this shloka containing the word arna and its meaning: mahO arNa: Sarasvathi prachEthayathi kEthunA dhiyO visvA virAjathi
(Meaning ): Sarasvathi manifests by Her acts as a mighty river and (in Her own form ) enlightens all understandings (provides illuminating meanings ).
then why are people forbidden to drink water from a pond. or why are they lynched or burned? or why till today, lower caste people, in massive numbers live outsider the village perimeter in 80% of south and north indian villages. The word "Varna" itself means color. Hence the evil of apartheid that has lasted 1000 plus years. Manu, the great father or vedic knowledge said that Women are equal to cows. The caste system is India's biggest shame and darkness. It now exists in Christianity, Sikhism and Muslims too.
Samrat Bee
Thats exactly what I'm trying to explain. Hindu(Vedic) dharma has been around since many zillion centuries. Theories have been distorted gradually and selfish people have twisted meanings for evil gains. For example, when a doctor or lawyer does malpractice one blames them not the science.(in general). Varna does not mean color to be taken literally. If it was so its illogical because in India people have always been of many shades. Arjuna and Draupadi were dark, Yudhisthir a bit fair etc. Manu is not great father. Manu is short for Manvantar implying that period in time in which certain behaviours will be seen. They were predicting the future which is actually happening today. They were not putting down laws. Many interpretations are wrong.
Kev A Zillions of centuries or perhaps 2500 odd years. There were many tribes, societies, practices and ideologies prior to that as well.
Academic and Linguist of sankrit scriptures unanimously refer it to as "The word appears in the Rigveda, where it means "colour, outward appearance, exterior, form, figure or shape" - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varna_(Hinduism)
Based on that very idea - the past 1000 odd years we have the 4 Varnas. The Castes. The abominable apartheid within the Varnas - that is visible at almost every facet of Hindu society in India. From the prime minister to the beggar on the street.
The laws put down or up 2000 years ago don't matter. Its how people suffer and remain without rights that does. We wish to criminalize the caste system and further to expose the true function of the Vedas and Varnas.
Why does he call Baruch Spinoza, Thomas at 4:43?
you are right , i have seen him make lots of mistakes even in other speeches. For a historian of repute it is quite sad that he makes so many mistakes
#SamratGenocide
India could not speak freely right from the time the PANGOLIN*s assumed power in 1947.
Jabberlal Neckscrew used to get into the well of the house and glare at the Parliamentarians to brow beat them into silence.
Jabberlal's daughter, Priyadarshini Khan, after she lost her case to Shankaracharya Keshavaananda Bharathi (Thanks to the only worthy Supreme Court Justice India ever had, the Most Honourable Hans Raj Khanna) and, thereby, her bid to turn India into a Stalinist Totalitarian State, started collecting files of criminal wrong doing by judges, policemen, bureaucrats, politicians, journalists, historians, litterateurs and others into a High Command that thereafter ran Indian by black mail.
In my opinion, this is the principal reason why the BJP Government is stymied from fulfilling its mandate. The Khangress still runs the rusted, incompetent and corrupt Iron Frame of India and it is still their PANGOLIN* Constitution and laws that run India.
I remember being locked up with the Chief Reporter (V.N.Subba Road) and the Editor in the Indian Express office, Bangalore in 1975 by Priyadarshini Khan's Police. I was a College student then and had gone to discuss a series of youth interest articles that I was doing for the Express on music, theater, art and so on. Priyadarshini Khan's police also murdered my friend Snehalatha Reddy in Police custody during the same "Emergency")
Such horrors would never have been visited on the Historians and other camp followers of the Khangress.
*Note: PANGOLIN: An enemy of India who believes in inequality under law, exceptions to the rule of law and persecution of some for the benefit of others. At present, the sole purpose of the Indian Republic, Constitutional or otherwise, is to pamper and provide for certain constitutionally preferred sections of society who the British found useful to hold and exploit India at the cost of those who the British hated and persecuted. The Pangolin is a creature that is unique to India and feeds on ants that are known in nature to be industrious and hard working if not quite as fruitful as bees who flee to better climes. (PANGOLIN is an acronym for the Periyar-Ambedkar-Nehru-Gandhi-Other (alien) Religions-Communist Consensus that usurped the British Mantle and has worn it with elan to loot, plunder, and rape India since 1921 and re write History and laws to their exclusive benefit since 1947)