Same kinda thing you'd experience with a poorly calibrated fuel table, which I learned about when I was tuning my Subaru with a Link ECU. Fascinating stuff, great video. :)
This exactly the same issue i'm having on my 4 cylinder 8V 2.0L Golf motor with a 282 deg cam. I've been adding timing in that surge range,instead of taking timing away as you've done in the video. Thanks for this video
Thank you so much for this! Our 2015 Camaro ran good but not great. Low RPM bucking and some surging. was able to smooth it all out and now runs like a top! Thanks!
Really enjoyed your video - I have spent a lot of time looking around youtube for somebody to really dig into cam surge and you guys covered a lot of ground on the spark side. I would REALLY like to see you give us a little more on how you approach EOIT changes - there are a lot of different schools of thought there and would love to get your take on what works.
Bruh. Just watched this as I am having this issue with a BTR cam installed on my Tahoe. I am ordering the HP Tuners set up and checking this area. Thanks for the video.
I have a '98 Z28, had this problem for years, 'pro' tuners blaming it on parts selection or pcm limitations. My 2D spark maps are ugly as a result of so many tuners being in there. I'll try lowering advance like you did here, but I'd feel a lot better about it if the spark maps were relatively smooth like the maf and ve tables are.
Ethan Hopkins I cant thank you enough for your hp tuner videos you are great help at explaining things so we can understand. I finally got my Stroker DUAL fly by wire TBSS to idle correctly with BTR stg 4 cam to stop that surging shitt using your method. I still have a ways to go but this was a major issue until now . Liked and subscribed!
Just got hp tuner (starting with basically stock car) to start tuning my self. Great videos so far. Subscribed for more! I want a cam in my future so this will help for sure
"End of injection timing" is the actual phrase, so good catch. I say it the way I do, because that is what is actually HAPPENING, we are trying to not blow fuel straight out of an open exhaust valve.
Why do you keep manually changing the values in big groups on your timing table and not using the interpolation buttons? Not only is it faster, but also gives you a much better transitioning timing table.
Thank you fro taking the time out of your day to make this video. Can you review my file if i send it to you. I would like your input. I have major cam surge and it does take away the enjoyment of driving.
I really want to learn how to fine tune like this! I don't know anything about it now but I'm really hoping I can learn soon. Bad ass channel! I'm definitely subscribing.
Im also in the process of learning how to tune, everything is on the hp tuners forum once you understand what the tables are you should be able to tune. I purchased “The tuning school” online course but honestly I feel like I have learned more from a youtube channel called goat rope garage.
@@juancastro8684 does it really have any significant info that justifies the cost vs goat rope garage videos about gen 3 and 4 specially the Idle tuning part ?
I have the Comp Cam HRT Stage 2 on my 2015RT Challenger with longtube headers. I have had 6 or 7 email tunes so far. No luck with the surge. Then 2 dyno tunes, still has surging at low rpm low speed. Mostly at idle in gear, trying to move forward slowly, just bucks until I get to 25 to 30mph. Im good on highway. I'm starting to regret the cam install.
Hey there thanks for watching! We hear this alot. Why dont you email us the must current data log that you have and see if we can help you out with a remote tune. @trackstarmedia00@gmail.com
@@TrackstarMediaworks Wow really, you don't mind looking at it? That's awesome. So, you just a data log of just the slow daily driving speeds, like where my main issues are at, our do you want any accelerations as well? Yes, if you could fix this surging my email, I would be blown away. It has really taken the fun out of driving this car. I had considered having the cam removed and going back to stock. My name is Brian Davis.
Very informative video. Im currently building my LS2 out of my automatic 06 GTO. going 10 thousandths over on the bore with a stroker crank and all forged internals. Im looking for the ideal cam to run in it to build the most power on pump gas and a torque converter to go along with it. compression ratio is equating out to 10.95/1 with 404.14 ci. of displacement. Any suggestions on cam and converter options?
I have a big cam LS6 that starts okay, but may* want to stall for the first 15-30 seconds, then smooths out until the mph read above 1. e.g. if you put the car on jack stands with the car in N. Idling.... simply spinning the wheels so the spedo rises will cause the engine to stall. After the car has been running for more than 60 seconds (presumably goes from open to closed loop) it no longer stalls, runs just fine. For years I have just bliped the thottle to avoid a stall for the first minute of driving. ( its annyoing on an M6 car.) Ive raised idle air, and it seems like that resolves it until some time passes and the car trims itself back into the same condition. After doing this a few times, and disconnecting / reconnecting the battery, the car will slowly idle up to 1800rpm, then clamp down on itself back to target idle, followed by a slow rise back to 1800 (and repeat) After a week, the car will trim itself back to running perfect (with the exception of needing to blip the trottle to prevent a stall for first 60 seconds.) In summary, each 'tune' seems to resolve this for the first week or two until the car trims itself back to a (first 60 seconds) problem. secondary: It bucks a little at 1100rpm in higher gears if you dont tip into the throttle little bit, Ill try pulling the timing in that area per your suggestion. I usually just mitigate this with light throttle or taking it out of gear when 'coasting'.
Is cam surge OK to not tune out? my c5 has it currently at low rpm usually between 1200-1800 rpm while at low speed/load cruise (like 45mph in 5th gear it'll stutter and hiccup like its misfiring.
The ONLY reason a big cammed car would be running a MAF only tune is because the "tuner" found it to be too much of a PITA to dial in the VVE table! It would normally be the OTHER way on a cam with alot of overlap: to run an SD/VVE only tune as low rpm reversion can play havoc with the MAF sensor with a good amount of overlap. I am fighting terrible surge right now on my +18 deg (@0.050") overlap LS3. Traditionally, big cams want MORE idle and off idle timing because all that reversion functions as EGR but I'll try anything at this point. Nothing has really helped doing the standard recommended Gen 4 E38 adjustments.
Me as well, I have an e38 and a stage III cam from Brian, it has been hell to get the thing to stop surging. I am going to try to reduce the timing like said video. I'll keep you posted on findings, mine is only at idle though I have watched the timing through cruise and it's spot on so maybe I'm chasing a rabbit.
Mine is doing it bad jumping I call it when in drive or any. Ear and has died a few times I seen on scanner that spark was at 5-6 that’s crazy but what do I do go into rpm and see what seems add more and what’s high reduce
I have a z06 with cam surge. It’s been tuned four time and it still surges even up to 2500 rpms. I hate driving the car and really to install a smaller cam.
Oh i need to visit my garage right away, got a tune and havent got the car running smooth since last 2years. Having a GT-21 cam and i just tought this is what its like .,.,.-231,,213,5-2,624-.6742
Can a mild LS performance cam be tuned to sound just like a stock LS2 cam? I want to be as undetected as possible! Actually I don’t like the chop in any aftermarket cams. With a good tune Ofcourse.
What would cause the piston to break like that, I have a ls3 that had the same piston delete mod, and I also had a broken intake valve and a bent exhaust valve?
Cannot find the injection boundry the same as ur screen.. with engine speed on top... actually it has a manual entry for a parameter on one boundry button. Trying to tune my car.. 6.0 bored .30 big cam higher compression heads (241)
I have c6 z06 with huge comp cam, tuned twice tuner said thats the best you'll get cause of the big cam, drives horrible didn't want to say that to tuner to insult him, it surges bucks from idle to 2500 rpm dont really want to drive it cause of that please help im in Toronto Canada thanks
@@TrackstarMediaworks is that something i can ask the tuner to give me on a usb or something cam is .624 valve lift adv dur296 int exh312 dur @.050 247int exh263 thanks
@@TrackstarMediaworks I have the same issue with my BTR stage 4 cam LS7 running MAF only. Would you care to look over a log and tune file, I have my own HP tuners. Thanks from Sweden 👍
I’ve only got a mild cam and it surges and bucks 80-100 lmk I’m in Australia and own a Holden commodore VF with an LS3 are you guys able to look at my tune?
I just got my 2019 ZR1 modded and it has horrible cam surge rolling out of the driveway and is absolutely no fun to drive. The company who built my car claims its all normal and due to the big cam but my car is doing exactly what you describe and it is no fun. How can I call or e-mail you?
Would it not better to dyno it steady state add timing to find best torque, while keeping map smooth. Does hp tuner allow target afr changes v load and rpm?
I didn't hear what cam was in this car? I heard Texas speed but is it stage 2, 3 or 4 or something else? Curious because i'm getting ready to do a cam swap in an LS3 / 6 speed manual. I'm wanting to do a stage 3 or 4.
Honestly we have a great relationship with Texas Speed. And they would be the ones you should contact to spec the proper cam for you! I will get these cam specs to you though on the z06
I am so sorry for the late reply I must’ve missed this comment yes we do and it just really depends on how much back-and-forth we need to do to get the tune right. Remote tuning properly is hard but we can help out! Send us a message @trackstarmedia00@gmail.com
I have this bucking problem in my l99 car for almost a 2 years after the cam swap. It bucks. My cam is a Texas speed VVT3. With a lift 231 and 243. Need help, I lost confidence in my tuner.
how much hp would you say my vette would make?? to the wheels wit a 430ci ls7 13.5.1 compression resleeved block best heads in the market fuel system everything no short cuts.
@@TrackstarMediaworks oh no bruh is cause we still building the car that's why, i was just asking like how much you think is going to make on some good fuel
@@TrackstarMediaworks usually that affect the amount of change in timing when the car is in idle so as mush as we minimize the value in the first table as mush as we have smother spark graph
email us at trackstarmedia00@gmail.com and we will get you taken care of! Thanks for the support! You can also message us on Trackstar Motorworks facebook page!
Same kinda thing you'd experience with a poorly calibrated fuel table, which I learned about when I was tuning my Subaru with a Link ECU. Fascinating stuff, great video. :)
Thank you! Gonna use what i learned to fix a little surging issue i have.
This exactly the same issue i'm having on my 4 cylinder 8V 2.0L Golf motor with a 282 deg cam. I've been adding timing in that surge range,instead of taking timing away as you've done in the video.
Thanks for this video
This video is the definition of getting the correct answer without knowing why.
Thank you so much for this! Our 2015 Camaro ran good but not great. Low RPM bucking and some surging. was able to smooth it all out and now runs like a top! Thanks!
What tuning was required to.clear the surging?
Your awesome teacher man. It's very hard for me to pay attention to someone talking and u killed it for me thank you so much man
Really enjoyed your video - I have spent a lot of time looking around youtube for somebody to really dig into cam surge and you guys covered a lot of ground on the spark side. I would REALLY like to see you give us a little more on how you approach EOIT changes - there are a lot of different schools of thought there and would love to get your take on what works.
Bruh. Just watched this as I am having this issue with a BTR cam installed on my Tahoe. I am ordering the HP Tuners set up and checking this area. Thanks for the video.
I have a '98 Z28, had this problem for years, 'pro' tuners blaming it on parts selection or pcm limitations. My 2D spark maps are ugly as a result of so many tuners being in there. I'll try lowering advance like you did here, but I'd feel a lot better about it if the spark maps were relatively smooth like the maf and ve tables are.
I love your channel. Much love and respect from Arkansas
Arkansas here too! Lol
I agree. EOIT is overlooked.
Good work gents👍🏽
Ethan Hopkins
I cant thank you enough for your hp tuner videos you are great help at explaining things so we can understand. I finally got my Stroker DUAL fly by wire TBSS to idle correctly with BTR stg 4 cam to stop that surging shitt using your method. I still have a ways to go but this was a major issue until now . Liked and subscribed!
Just got hp tuner (starting with basically stock car) to start tuning my self. Great videos so far. Subscribed for more! I want a cam in my future so this will help for sure
EOIT stands for end of injection target, not exhaust open injection timing
"End of injection timing" is the actual phrase, so good catch. I say it the way I do, because that is what is actually HAPPENING, we are trying to not blow fuel straight out of an open exhaust valve.
@@ethanhopkins2290 quick video on how to tune the EOIT?
Why do you keep manually changing the values in big groups on your timing table and not using the interpolation buttons? Not only is it faster, but also gives you a much better transitioning timing table.
Great video.
there was more changed in that tune to prevent that surge outside of the spark. your logger went from closed loop to an open loop tune.
Going to try this tomorrow, good job explaining everything. Would like if you dug into EOIT
Thank you for the support!!
Thank you so much. Fixed my cam surge quick!
Awesome !!!
Thanks for showing this, very awesome
Thank you a ton sir. I have the exact same problems in my 4B11 after putting new cams in.
Still can’t find injection boundaries took some ups and downs from timing don’t know what I’m doing
Doesn't EOIT stand for End Of Injection Timing not exhaust open? Pretty sure it controls when the end of Injection happens
I came here to say this....
Thank you fro taking the time out of your day to make this video. Can you review my file if i send it to you. I would like your input. I have major cam surge and it does take away the enjoyment of driving.
Genius!
Subscribed
Thanks for the support!!!
I really want to learn how to fine tune like this! I don't know anything about it now but I'm really hoping I can learn soon. Bad ass channel! I'm definitely subscribing.
Im also in the process of learning how to tune, everything is on the hp tuners forum once you understand what the tables are you should be able to tune. I purchased “The tuning school” online course but honestly I feel like I have learned more from a youtube channel called goat rope garage.
@@juancastro8684 I watched every video in that channel as well which book did you end up with from the tuning school?
@@hassanabas1549I purchased the online course for the gen 3 and 4 beginners tuning level.
@@juancastro8684 does it really have any significant info that justifies the cost vs goat rope garage videos about gen 3 and 4 specially the Idle tuning part ?
@@hassanabas1549 i wouldnt waste my money on the “Tuning school” material, I think hp tuners forum is more useful
I live in Fort worth and also drive a c6 corvette. Would love to come visit your shop sometime?
I have the Comp Cam HRT Stage 2 on my 2015RT Challenger with longtube headers. I have had 6 or 7 email tunes so far. No luck with the surge. Then 2 dyno tunes, still has surging at low rpm low speed. Mostly at idle in gear, trying to move forward slowly, just bucks until I get to 25 to 30mph. Im good on highway. I'm starting to regret the cam install.
Hey there thanks for watching! We hear this alot. Why dont you email us the must current data log that you have and see if we can help you out with a remote tune. @trackstarmedia00@gmail.com
@@TrackstarMediaworks Wow really, you don't mind looking at it? That's awesome. So, you just a data log of just the slow daily driving speeds, like where my main issues are at, our do you want any accelerations as well?
Yes, if you could fix this surging my email, I would be blown away. It has really taken the fun out of driving this car. I had considered having the cam removed and going back to stock.
My name is Brian Davis.
Great video. I wish you would have really went into injection boundaries a bit.
Same problem my ls engine car bucking while acceleration at low rpm. Is it cam surge problem or torque converter locking up?
Very informative video. Im currently building my LS2 out of my automatic 06 GTO. going 10 thousandths over on the bore with a stroker crank and all forged internals. Im looking for the ideal cam to run in it to build the most power on pump gas and a torque converter to go along with it. compression ratio is equating out to 10.95/1 with 404.14 ci. of displacement. Any suggestions on cam and converter options?
I have a big cam LS6 that starts okay, but may* want to stall for the first 15-30 seconds, then smooths out until the mph read above 1.
e.g. if you put the car on jack stands with the car in N. Idling.... simply spinning the wheels so the spedo rises will cause the engine to stall.
After the car has been running for more than 60 seconds (presumably goes from open to closed loop) it no longer stalls, runs just fine.
For years I have just bliped the thottle to avoid a stall for the first minute of driving. ( its annyoing on an M6 car.)
Ive raised idle air, and it seems like that resolves it until some time passes and the car trims itself back into the same condition.
After doing this a few times, and disconnecting / reconnecting the battery, the car will slowly idle up to 1800rpm, then clamp down on itself back to target idle, followed by a slow rise back to 1800 (and repeat)
After a week, the car will trim itself back to running perfect (with the exception of needing to blip the trottle to prevent a stall for first 60 seconds.)
In summary, each 'tune' seems to resolve this for the first week or two until the car trims itself back to a (first 60 seconds) problem.
secondary:
It bucks a little at 1100rpm in higher gears if you dont tip into the throttle little bit, Ill try pulling the timing in that area per your suggestion. I usually just mitigate this with light throttle or taking it out of gear when 'coasting'.
can this be done on gm computer and harness for a 2009 ls7 with a comp cam . the computer harness comes stock tune but says its flashable
But what about Carbed motors? Maybe switch to EFI to get better efficiency?
What camera are you using? Footage looks awesome!
Is cam surge OK to not tune out? my c5 has it currently at low rpm usually between 1200-1800 rpm while at low speed/load cruise (like 45mph in 5th gear it'll stutter and hiccup like its misfiring.
Haaaa I love watching this I enjoy my z06 better now Ethan I'm ready....to bring my cts and finish up everything.....but you did a great job.
The ONLY reason a big cammed car would be running a MAF only tune is because the "tuner" found it to be too much of a PITA to dial in the VVE table! It would normally be the OTHER way on a cam with alot of overlap: to run an SD/VVE only tune as low rpm reversion can play havoc with the MAF sensor with a good amount of overlap.
I am fighting terrible surge right now on my +18 deg (@0.050") overlap LS3. Traditionally, big cams want MORE idle and off idle timing because all that reversion functions as EGR but I'll try anything at this point. Nothing has really helped doing the standard recommended Gen 4 E38 adjustments.
Me as well, I have an e38 and a stage III cam from Brian, it has been hell to get the thing to stop surging. I am going to try to reduce the timing like said video. I'll keep you posted on findings, mine is only at idle though I have watched the timing through cruise and it's spot on so maybe I'm chasing a rabbit.
Mine is doing it bad jumping I call it when in drive or any. Ear and has died a few times I seen on scanner that spark was at 5-6 that’s crazy but what do I do go into rpm and see what seems add more and what’s high reduce
I have a z06 with cam surge. It’s been tuned four time and it still surges even up to 2500 rpms. I hate driving the car and really to install a smaller cam.
I am sorry to hear that where is your car located? Do u have a way to data log?
No I don’t. The last guy data logged it and made a bunch of changes but still surges.
I’m in South Carolina. Watching your video gives me hope it can be fixed.
Won't the lack of timing at cruise make the spark plugs get dirty faster or is that an issue that died with the carb days?
wouldnt you want to gradually come down instead of making everything 20?
Oh i need to visit my garage right away, got a tune and havent got the car running smooth since last 2years. Having a GT-21 cam and i just tought this is what its like .,.,.-231,,213,5-2,624-.6742
Can a mild LS performance cam be tuned to sound just like a stock LS2 cam? I want to be as undetected as possible! Actually I don’t like the chop in any aftermarket cams. With a good tune Ofcourse.
I can’t find injection boundaries then what do I do add or take away
What does the vette have done to it ?😃
Awesome vid. I have been dealing with this in my car for awhile. Seems pretty easy to fix. How do I get ahold of you
Sounds great we're located in Haltom City. Near Fort Worth! Shoot us a message on Facebook! We can help out!
my g8 seems to surge a little when cruising down the highway but wasn't sure if it was because of the stall or tune
What would cause the piston to break like that, I have a ls3 that had the same piston delete mod, and I also had a broken intake valve and a bent exhaust valve?
In this case it was a valve that dropped, pretty common on the LS7 unfortunately.
Cannot find the injection boundry the same as ur screen.. with engine speed on top... actually it has a manual entry for a parameter on one boundry button. Trying to tune my car.. 6.0 bored .30 big cam higher compression heads (241)
I have c6 z06 with huge comp cam, tuned twice tuner said thats the best you'll get cause of the big cam, drives horrible didn't want to say that to tuner to insult him, it surges bucks from idle to 2500 rpm dont really want to drive it cause of that please help im in Toronto Canada thanks
Do you have the ability to log? If so send over a file to trackstarmedia00@gmail.com thanks for the support
@@TrackstarMediaworks is that something i can ask the tuner to give me on a usb or something cam is .624 valve lift adv dur296 int exh312 dur @.050 247int exh263 thanks
@@manim-ed4jr the tuner might give you a log? Do you know what tuning software was used?
Trackstar Mediaworks I can ask thanks
@@TrackstarMediaworks I have the same issue with my BTR stage 4 cam LS7 running MAF only. Would you care to look over a log and tune file, I have my own HP tuners.
Thanks from Sweden 👍
I’ve only got a mild cam and it surges and bucks 80-100 lmk I’m in Australia and own a Holden commodore VF with an LS3 are you guys able to look at my tune?
Message Sent
I just got my 2019 ZR1 modded and it has horrible cam surge rolling out of the driveway and is absolutely no fun to drive. The company who built my car claims its all normal and due to the big cam but my car is doing exactly what you describe and it is no fun. How can I call or e-mail you?
What cam does it have and what are the specs?
Does it effect the brakes in newer cars like older car.....no brakes low vaccum
How much do you charge to make changes to an existing tune like this?
Just depends on how long I spend with the car, and if the customer wants it back on dyno; or just touch up on street.
Ethan Hopkins probably just touch up on the street until motor is broken in, then back on dyno later.
Would it not better to dyno it steady state add timing to find best torque, while keeping map smooth.
Does hp tuner allow target afr changes v load and rpm?
Forget everything you've seen in this video....lol. Disaster.
I didn't hear what cam was in this car? I heard Texas speed but is it stage 2, 3 or 4 or something else? Curious because i'm getting ready to do a cam swap in an LS3 / 6 speed manual. I'm wanting to do a stage 3 or 4.
Honestly we have a great relationship with Texas Speed. And they would be the ones you should contact to spec the proper cam for you! I will get these cam specs to you though on the z06
Where'd you get that Yellow Z06 side fender emblem?
2.53 actually gets to it :)
Are you here in ft worth? I noticed Haltom rd in the video while on test ride. Id like to being my c6 vette in sometime.
Yes we are located in Haltom City off of Mid Cities drive!!! Bring it by!
Will do!
What size cam is in it?
Are you familiar with "The Tuning School" printed courses? Are they worth it?
in your opinion, what would be considered a large cam?
Great advice overall, do you by chance view tunes to help out? If so what charge?
I am so sorry for the late reply I must’ve missed this comment yes we do and it just really depends on how much back-and-forth we need to do to get the tune right. Remote tuning properly is hard but we can help out! Send us a message @trackstarmedia00@gmail.com
What exhaust is on that Z06?
I have this bucking problem in my l99 car for almost a 2 years after the cam swap. It bucks. My cam is a Texas speed VVT3. With a lift 231 and 243. Need help, I lost confidence in my tuner.
Let us know what we can do for you! Do you have the ability to do remote tuning??
@@TrackstarMediaworks, I will.buy the HP with some credits and I will let yoy guys know
how much hp would you say my vette would make?? to the wheels wit a 430ci ls7 13.5.1 compression resleeved block best heads in the market fuel system everything no short cuts.
I’m surprised with that type of set up you haven’t been on a Dyno yet? Hard to say!
@@TrackstarMediaworks oh no bruh is cause we still building the car that's why, i was just asking like how much you think is going to make on some good fuel
How can check you guy out on a online website
Hi probably a stupid question but how do i get that software
Hptuners.com
idle adaptive spark control maybe have to be changed ?
Should not have to make changes to that... more detail please
@@TrackstarMediaworks usually that affect the amount of change in timing when the car is in idle so as mush as we minimize the value in the first table as mush as we have smother spark graph
please correct me if i'm wrong
How much overlap does that cam have. My cam had 24 degrees.
busaofsc busaofsc holy shit😂 bet that was a chop monster
Can I contact you for this same problem. Also base tune is off . Or I can email you
email us at trackstarmedia00@gmail.com and we will get you taken care of! Thanks for the support! You can also message us on Trackstar Motorworks facebook page!
The buck stops here
Yo when are you uploading the ak 47 tune video, I wanna see how you do that 😵🔥🔥
Going live tonight!!
@@TrackstarMediaworks awesome to hear brother, cant wait to do it to my straightpiped camry if at all possible 💥💥💥😂👊🤙
What are those cam spec
I'll get the exact specs for you asap.
Thanks, I'm interested as well!
@@ethanhopkins2290 we are still waiting!
When u ready to throw my car back on the dyno and perfect the tune. Its Carl by the way. Lol
Great video. That corvette is the worst sounding car I have ever heard
where are you located
We are located in Haltom City near Fort Worth!!
Maybe next time, don’t put such a big cam in..... put a smaller cam in and more torque and hp. Best of all better driving
But it sounds so mean though... Lol...
Need to work on your camera work
Intro way to long
Thanks